Speaker 1: I get a team. It's John bos Craig Athney, har
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook. We'll start with Tip, then we'll go
Speaker 1: to the actual star of the show, Kelly Smith, who
Speaker 1: is rapidly climbing the fucking typ ladder. Tiff you and
Speaker 1: I better watch our.
Speaker 2: Backs and we're not going to have a spot here anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah the hell. It's like I was walking down Hampton
Speaker 1: Street and people were like, who's that bloke with Kelly Smith?
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, what? How are you? Cook?
Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: What's going on? Tell we love an update on your body,
Speaker 1: because it's either brand new and bursting out of its
Speaker 1: skin and full of fucking hormones and muscles and shit,
Speaker 1: or it's fucked and you're getting treatment from nine different people.
Speaker 1: That's the current status.
Speaker 2: Option b today, Option Bree. I've got a shooting pain
Speaker 2: down and I'm in pain. It's not fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a little bit like a race horse.
Speaker 2: That's what my boxing coach used to call me, the thoroughbread.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're pretty. I mean like, I'm like a
Speaker 1: fucking draft horse, right, I'm just a plunker probably in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, just a plunker, slow and steady,
Speaker 1: no skill, no speed, fucking no talent, but you're like
Speaker 1: the fucking ready made you know, would be Olympian like
Speaker 1: four weeks notice, you'd be good for the Olympic Games.
Speaker 1: You know. For me, I'll be good for the like that.
Speaker 1: You know that room with the balls that ika, that's me.
Speaker 3: The room with the balls that I care?
Speaker 1: What is that when the kids play?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: I don't know that room?
Speaker 1: Hell do you know that room?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think it's it was before the days of
Speaker 4: O H and s though, because the kids would like
Speaker 4: fall to the bottom and you know there's all sorts
Speaker 4: of manky shit on the floor there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I never thought about that. I never
Speaker 1: thought about that. Kelly Smith, welcome back to the project.
Speaker 1: That's you. How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm very well. Thanks thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1: Thanks for ben had. What's going on over at you Central?
Speaker 1: Did you work today?
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 4: I went to a conference today all about fundraising and
Speaker 4: getting good people to donate their good money to good causes,
Speaker 4: and it was quite interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't mind a good conference. I'm going to want
Speaker 1: tomorrow tomorrow morning, but I'm speaking and then I'm leaving.
Speaker 1: It's not exactly the same shout out to the people
Speaker 1: from Sidekick who are graciously having me present at their conference.
Speaker 1: Have we ever told our listeners what you do? I
Speaker 1: don't know that we have, have we? And are we
Speaker 1: allowed to?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I've mentioned before that I work in disability. I
Speaker 4: have done for twenty three years. So I started off
Speaker 4: working as a support worker and then studied a whole
Speaker 4: range of different things and now I'm marketing manager. So
Speaker 4: that involves doing a whole range of promotional advertising, supporting, fundraising, supporting,
Speaker 4: getting all of the messaging out there so.
Speaker 3: That people know who we are.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, is there such a thing as what would
Speaker 1: I call it, like from the public's perception, like charity
Speaker 1: fatigue where you know, I probably get asked three or
Speaker 1: four times a week for money for something, which is cool,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it must be hard for you. You work
Speaker 1: at a special needs school, am I right?
Speaker 4: So I work for a place that is for adults
Speaker 4: with intellectual disability called Baby House, And there's definitely a
Speaker 4: thing called donor fatigue.
Speaker 3: So we're quite aware.
Speaker 4: That, you know, we will be hitting up the same
Speaker 4: audience to support us on a regular basis. So how
Speaker 4: do we move ourselves out into a wider audience, and
Speaker 4: that's what today was about. So there were people there
Speaker 4: that worked for indigenous charities for instance, and so it's
Speaker 4: kind of how do you tap into an audience that
Speaker 4: might not have any connection to you at all and
Speaker 4: make them, you know, want to open their wallets and
Speaker 4: support you. So it's yeah, it can be tricky. It's
Speaker 4: very rewarding when we do see the results and then
Speaker 4: see you know, the people that we support benefit from that,
Speaker 4: and that's you know, that's why I said in another
Speaker 4: episode that I feel really honored to do what I do, Like,
Speaker 4: I just love it. It can be hard, but it's great,
Speaker 4: it's worthwhile in the end.
Speaker 1: Well, that's work with purpose, isn't it? Like absolutely the
Speaker 1: insection of a job and making a few bucks and
Speaker 1: I would guess probably not going to become a millionaire
Speaker 1: doing that anytime soon, But that's not why you're doing it, right, No, No.
Speaker 4: Like I left for a little while to work somewhere
Speaker 4: else and it just had no soul to it. Like,
Speaker 4: you know, nothing against working in different areas that do
Speaker 4: you know, make a ton of cash, but this just
Speaker 4: really aligns with my values and who I am a person.
Speaker 1: Well, good for you. I think that's about ninety percent
Speaker 1: of it when it comes to work, is finding the
Speaker 1: thing that you genuinely care about, are passionate about, and
Speaker 1: then I reckon the next important bit is being in
Speaker 1: an environment or culture a group where you like to be. Like,
Speaker 1: even if you're doing meaningful work, you kind of want
Speaker 1: to be around people you like. Otherwise it's a tough
Speaker 1: day at the office.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and yeah, we're very lucky with that. So there's
Speaker 4: lots of people that have been there. I mean, the
Speaker 4: organization's been around for seventy five years next year, and
Speaker 4: we've got people that have been there for thirty thirty
Speaker 4: five years, people that have been there from almost the
Speaker 4: beginning and still involved even though they're retired. So there's
Speaker 4: some really good, passionate human beings that are part of us,
Speaker 4: which is great.
Speaker 1: When was the last time you had a job, TIF
Speaker 1: like a job job where you went to work and
Speaker 1: you were an employee.
Speaker 2: A decade two thousand and fifteen, what was that job?
Speaker 2: I was in sales with Impact Digital to digital print company.
Speaker 2: They were a great company too, they were great people. Really, Yeah,
Speaker 2: why'd you leave to do my own thing? To be pt?
Speaker 2: Do you give this whole thing a thing I'd been like,
Speaker 2: I didn't even plan it. I just I was doing
Speaker 2: it on the side, and then I got busy and
Speaker 2: thought I kind of owed it to the situation to
Speaker 2: give it a crack of a sales background. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you're pretty shit salesperson if I can't make it work.
Speaker 1: Well, that's true. So you were thirty two, right, give
Speaker 1: or take. Yeah, yeah, So how old were you when
Speaker 1: you started working?
Speaker 2: I would have been I was probably fourteen, to be honest.
Speaker 2: I remember my first job, but my first full time
Speaker 2: job at seventeen, right.
Speaker 1: So that's fifteen years at the grindstone or fifteen years
Speaker 1: on the front line of being an employee. That's good,
Speaker 1: it's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, on myyards.
Speaker 1: You've done. You've done your time now, Kelly. The reason
Speaker 1: you are here is because you are the asker of
Speaker 1: questions and we get really nice feedback about you. And
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying that. I would say nothing if
Speaker 1: that weren't the case, but it is the case. We
Speaker 1: get nice feedback. People like you. They like your insightful questions,
Speaker 1: and you're a little bit somewhat atypical thinking you're not
Speaker 1: asking the same the same questions that I guess asked endlessly. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're back. What are we talking about. What's
Speaker 1: at the top of your agenda today?
Speaker 4: Well, the past couple of days, the episodes I've really
Speaker 4: got a lot out of, so the episodes we've passed
Speaker 4: you with Bobby, and then this morning there was one
Speaker 4: with doctor Sam and there were kind of the concepts
Speaker 4: of don't wait until you're ready to do something, give
Speaker 4: it a crack, don't wait until you think that you're
Speaker 4: going to be perfect, until you're going to be the
Speaker 4: best at it, just have it, go at it. And
Speaker 4: there was one the other day where Bobby was talking
Speaker 4: about public speaking, and it was just go in and
Speaker 4: aim for a four instead of the ten. And if
Speaker 4: you can get by with giving the four, then rather
Speaker 4: than letting that kind of dissuade you from giving it
Speaker 4: another crack, learn from it, grow from it, and aim
Speaker 4: for the ten. And I was thinking, well, how does
Speaker 4: this kind of relate to people who and I put
Speaker 4: myself in this category, so it's like scared of things,
Speaker 4: unsure about themselves or the situation, maybe just lazy, full
Speaker 4: of excuses.
Speaker 3: Or even the opposite end of that.
Speaker 4: Spectrum where they might be incredibly high achievers and are
Speaker 4: scared of failing, so they might not venture out into
Speaker 4: giving to go. And I was just really like just
Speaker 4: wanting to really unpack that to see kind of what's
Speaker 4: that spectrum of going from being completely scared give it
Speaker 4: a go. I'm such a high achievement that i never
Speaker 4: want to fail, so I'm not going to try.
Speaker 1: That's a really interesting question, right because I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us who are good at something. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I'm good at anything. But so what came to
Speaker 1: mind when you were asking this to feel free to
Speaker 1: jump in tonight? What was me when I started at
Speaker 1: Monash so doing my degree right, my doctorate and being
Speaker 1: someone who outside of that world was quite, you know,
Speaker 1: relatively competent and confident and somewhat successful and somewhat respected,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I'm in this environment
Speaker 1: where I'm none of that, and it doesn't matter who
Speaker 1: I am or what I do outside of there. Nobody
Speaker 1: neither should they have, But not one person when I
Speaker 1: arrived at Brain Park, which is the neuroscience neurocyc Lab
Speaker 1: of Monash University. When I arrived and I sat in
Speaker 1: my little cubicle up in the back far left fucking
Speaker 1: corner like someone's granddad who was pissed and lost. Right,
Speaker 1: not one person went, oh god, Craig Harpers joined the team,
Speaker 1: and neither should they. Right. But it's like you go
Speaker 1: from you know where. Sometimes I go somewhere and three
Speaker 1: people I don't know stop me and say hello and
Speaker 1: love your shit and thanks for that, you know. Obviously
Speaker 1: not all the time, but pretty regularly I get, you
Speaker 1: know whatever, and yeah, So now I'm in an environment
Speaker 1: where I'm probably the dumbest, I'm probably the least academic,
Speaker 1: and when I say dumbest, I'm talking in terms of
Speaker 1: what's required in that environment, the least competent, definitely the oldest,
Speaker 1: older than pretty much all of the staff, the faculty,
Speaker 1: the professors. Yeah, and I literally in the first week
Speaker 1: was thinking, call, how do I get out of this
Speaker 1: without looking like a fucking pussy? You know? Or so
Speaker 1: there was that, and I will say even now though
Speaker 1: I still feel and We've spoken about this many times,
Speaker 1: but you know, not so much imposter syndrome, but just
Speaker 1: inadequate and less than But that kind of almost inferiority
Speaker 1: complex for me weirdly, I like because it keeps me grounded.
Speaker 1: I don't get ahead of myself. I realize that in
Speaker 1: some rooms I'm pretty good and in other rooms I'm hopeless,
Speaker 1: well not hopeless, but somewhat inept compared to who else
Speaker 1: is in the room. So I think that's a real
Speaker 1: that can be a pitfall for people who are somewhat
Speaker 1: successful or competent or confident in a certain lane. They
Speaker 1: don't want to get in another lane because they're going
Speaker 1: to look silly. But over in this lane, in this
Speaker 1: fish bowl, I'm pretty respected and you know, kind of competent.
Speaker 1: So I definitely think, I mean, if that's what you
Speaker 1: want to do, like I am, I'm happy to go
Speaker 1: into the room where I know I'm the the most
Speaker 1: inadequate in that room because I can only get better.
Speaker 1: And then back to your you're you know when Bobby
Speaker 1: was talking about doname for a ten, aim for a four, Well,
Speaker 1: when you think about, let's say, in relation to public speaking,
Speaker 1: and really this could relate to any skill or any
Speaker 1: any kind of thing that you want to do publicly
Speaker 1: or not publicly. You know, it could be play the guitar,
Speaker 1: it could be run a marathon, well, if you're not
Speaker 1: currently playing the guitar, or you don't know how to,
Speaker 1: or you're not currently running, or you're not currently a
Speaker 1: public speaker, four out of ten would be a fucking
Speaker 1: great result, because I'm thinking right now, you're probably close
Speaker 1: to a zero or a one, and so, yeah, I
Speaker 1: totally agree with him, and I think that's wise, counsel,
Speaker 1: because I mean, we all have to be prepared to
Speaker 1: start as a metaphoric zero, or as I often say,
Speaker 1: a metaphoric white belt. And the only way you become
Speaker 1: a one or two or three or five or ten,
Speaker 1: or the only way you become a yellow or blue
Speaker 1: or green or purple or black belt, depending on what
Speaker 1: system you're in, is by just showing up and getting
Speaker 1: literally or like Tiff, literally punched in the face. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was a time where she didn't know what her
Speaker 1: left hook was or a jab or a fucking uppercut.
Speaker 1: There was time where she literally couldn't, you know, throw
Speaker 1: a combination. She didn't know the terminology, the language, like
Speaker 1: how did she how did she become a successful fighter
Speaker 1: and win stay titles? And well by starting off being
Speaker 1: shit and so this and you can't get better at
Speaker 1: what you're not doing now, if that's playing a guitar
Speaker 1: or being a public speaker, or being a boxer or
Speaker 1: building a business. When I started my first business, I
Speaker 1: was overwhelmed with all the things that I didn't know
Speaker 1: and understand. I didn't know how to build a business,
Speaker 1: grow a business, market a business. I didn't understand lawyers.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand council regulations. I didn't understand insurance. I
Speaker 1: didn't understand people management or leadership. I fuck, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: There were one hundred things I needed to know. But
Speaker 1: how do you get good at running a business well?
Speaker 1: By being shit at the start and having a good
Speaker 1: attitude and being humble and apologizing when you need to
Speaker 1: and unlearning when you need to. But I think that
Speaker 1: you know, we just get in our own way emotionally
Speaker 1: and psychologically because we don't want to be seen by
Speaker 1: others to be inadequate or incompetent. We don't want to
Speaker 1: be embarrassed. We don't want people to think we're done
Speaker 1: with da da da da da, And then we're fifty
Speaker 1: and this is the this is for me, that's always
Speaker 1: been the urgency, like and that's self created urgency and
Speaker 1: self created pressure, But that's how it works for me.
Speaker 1: Like I like, I like being the best version of me.
Speaker 1: I don't mean compared to anyone else, I mean the
Speaker 1: best version of a better version of me compared to
Speaker 1: when I was fifty. And the only way that that
Speaker 1: happens is under pressure and being prepared to be scared, inadequate, embarrassed,
Speaker 1: you know, all of those things. But working through that.
Speaker 1: I know that was a very long answer.
Speaker 3: It was No, it's good. Its good.
Speaker 4: What I'm curious about though, And like, I completely relate
Speaker 4: to the self imposed pressure, Like I get told very
Speaker 4: often that I'm very hard on myself, and I do
Speaker 4: always you know, push.
Speaker 3: For that more.
Speaker 4: But what about the people? And like, so for me,
Speaker 4: listening to podcasts initially was because I was looking for
Speaker 4: something I needed an answer to, you know, why do I,
Speaker 4: you know, have anxiety from time to time and how
Speaker 4: do I then deal with that? And then discovered a
Speaker 4: few more podcasts that were really delving into more self
Speaker 4: awareness self help.
Speaker 3: What about those people that at.
Speaker 4: The very start and they're so scared that they don't
Speaker 4: know even how to put themselves out there, like they're
Speaker 4: so potentially withdrawn or just you know, terrified of even
Speaker 4: posting a photo of themselves, Like I've been in that position.
Speaker 4: I messaged the other the other day and I said,
Speaker 4: I put a video of myself on TikTok go me
Speaker 4: best time. But what about those people that could be
Speaker 4: listening that are kind of like, I am so shit
Speaker 4: scared to do anything because I'm scared of being judged
Speaker 4: or looked at or seen or heard or failing, Like
Speaker 4: what would be the first step?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So being scared is normal, Being scared is healthy.
Speaker 1: Being in fact, being scared the right type of fear
Speaker 1: can save your life. So I think, you know, when
Speaker 1: we talk about being scared in our culture, it's almost
Speaker 1: seen as a negative. I think it's not a negative.
Speaker 1: It could be it depends, or it could be a
Speaker 1: positive it depends, But I think more than either of
Speaker 1: those things, it's an unavoidable part of the human experience.
Speaker 1: So when someone says to me I'm really scared, I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: me too, And they're like, what do you mean you?
Speaker 1: I go They're like, what are you scared of? I go, well,
Speaker 1: fucking get comfortable. I'll give you my list right Because
Speaker 1: we are, I mean menace, especially because men want to
Speaker 1: be seen. Not all men, I get it, but some
Speaker 1: men want to be seen as invincible, alpha male warriors,
Speaker 1: not scared of anything. It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit,
Speaker 1: you know. Like I've worked with I worked in I
Speaker 1: did security in pubs and clubs for three years with
Speaker 1: these big, fucking alpha male warriors. You don't think they're
Speaker 1: scared of stuff. Of course they I've worked with. I've
Speaker 1: worked with the military, I've worked with Victoria police. I've
Speaker 1: worked with a range of like different people who you
Speaker 1: would think, oh, wow, they're very, very you know, they
Speaker 1: must be close to fearless. No, they're not fearless. They're
Speaker 1: fucking brave. They're courageous. Some of them, month by the way,
Speaker 1: more in the bouncer category than the cop or the
Speaker 1: military category, but some are. But it's like it, I
Speaker 1: think it's more about a mental shift rather than going,
Speaker 1: what is the thing that I do first? Well, I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that we do first is
Speaker 1: we go I'm scared, and that's all right. I'm going
Speaker 1: to have to do a thing that is hard, and
Speaker 1: that's all right. But for me, it is about doing obviously,
Speaker 1: because different people have different objectives and are in different
Speaker 1: places emotionally and mentally. I mean for somebody with agrophobia
Speaker 1: or agoraphobia, people who don't want to leave the house
Speaker 1: or are very you know, maybe for them, walking to
Speaker 1: the fucking letterbox is like Tiff winning seven fights. You know,
Speaker 1: it's all relative to the individual. And so what we're
Speaker 1: looking at is what is going to create some momentum behavioral, emotional, mental,
Speaker 1: What is going to move the needle a little bit?
Speaker 1: And sadly, not sadly, but practically. So for me to
Speaker 1: say what's the first thing, it depends like there is
Speaker 1: no there's no set first thing. Because the first thing
Speaker 1: for you might be putting a photo or a video
Speaker 1: of yourself on tik talk. That might be something for
Speaker 1: you that's groundbreaking and cathartic and that's a real act
Speaker 1: of courage. For somebody else, they're like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: I do that twenty six times a day. But they're
Speaker 1: terrified of puppies, you know, I don't know. And for
Speaker 1: some people, like for me, going to do a speaking
Speaker 1: gig tomorrow with like two hundred people in a room
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah blah, my overwhelming emotion is
Speaker 1: excitement somebody else wouldn't get one minute sleep tonight. But
Speaker 1: it's not about the task or the skill of public speaking.
Speaker 1: It's about what that represents to you. So for me
Speaker 1: to go do that requires zero bravery. But for some
Speaker 1: people just to introduce me in a thirty second you know,
Speaker 1: read something for thirty seconds to introduce me would be
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly terrifying. So I think you know that the broad
Speaker 1: answer is lean into your fear. Do it intelligently and strategically,
Speaker 1: not recklessly. Right. And I think when we talk about
Speaker 1: putting ourselves under pressure like you did and I did,
Speaker 1: so there's healthy pressure and unhealthy pressure. So healthy pressure
Speaker 1: is right. I'm going to walk three thousand steps a day.
Speaker 1: That's my and because currently I'm walking a thousand cool
Speaker 1: and that's non negotiable for the next fourteen days. So
Speaker 1: I've got to make that commitment. And what I'm also
Speaker 1: going to do is I'm going to talk about it
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Hey, everyone, this is what I'm doing
Speaker 1: next fourteen days. I'm currently one. I'm going to triple it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to do three thousand. I'm going to report
Speaker 1: into Tiff and Kelly and blah blah blah, so now
Speaker 1: I'm kind of creating, and of course I cannot do it,
Speaker 1: of course, but in that way where it's something that's
Speaker 1: not insurmountable, it's not overwhelming, it's not reckless. But I
Speaker 1: think it's like, I think it is not only important
Speaker 1: imperative that we create a level of pressure for ourselves
Speaker 1: in an intelligent way, not a reckless way, because otherwise,
Speaker 1: how the fuck can we become more resilient if we
Speaker 1: are always trying to take pressure off ourselves. Now, sometimes
Speaker 1: sure like Tiff having an injury and going, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to put myself under the pressure of training the
Speaker 1: next three days on my body is telling that's cool.
Speaker 1: But if TIF doesn't train for the next year, because whatever,
Speaker 1: that's different, you know. So it's it's for me. It
Speaker 1: is very much the intersection of being willing to get
Speaker 1: uncomfortable or put yourself under pressure, being strategic and intelligent
Speaker 1: about how that works, and really being willing to explore
Speaker 1: your potential. And you know, like we've said, for some people,
Speaker 1: a five minute walker is a breakthrough. So it's all
Speaker 1: relative to the individual. But you know, if I sat
Speaker 1: with an individual and I got their story, then I
Speaker 1: could probably come up with something that I think I
Speaker 1: think might be a good starting point, and then I
Speaker 1: would unpack that with them and say, what do you think,
Speaker 1: like I think you doing this? Right? I think you
Speaker 1: doing this like you put up your hand and said,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Six months ago when it was I said, hey,
Speaker 1: everybody on the New Project Facebook page, I'm doing a.
Speaker 1: I want to do a Q and A. Send me
Speaker 1: some cues and I'll give you some a's right, And
Speaker 1: then you went, here's my cue? Can I ask you
Speaker 1: the questions? And I went, I know, like, I don't
Speaker 1: know you well well, but I know you well enough,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, I reckon that would be a mix
Speaker 1: of excitement and terror for you.
Speaker 3: Right absolutely. And it was interesting.
Speaker 4: So I remember, like I was listening to that you
Speaker 4: either put it into a podcast or on a post.
Speaker 4: And I was at the gym, and you know, that's
Speaker 4: when I kind of get all of my courage up,
Speaker 4: because you know, I'm lifting heavy for me, and I thought,
Speaker 4: I'm just going to ask because you can only say no.
Speaker 4: But if I don't ask, then it's no anyway. And
Speaker 4: then you came back and actually said, so, Kelly's asked this,
Speaker 4: And I was on the cross trainer at this point,
Speaker 4: and You're like, give me fifteen questions, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: challenge accepted. I'm typing away while I'm on the cross trainer,
Speaker 4: but yeah, you're right, Like it's really.
Speaker 3: Pushed me out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 4: And it's so nice to be on this with both
Speaker 4: of you because it gives me this opportunity to thank
Speaker 4: you both, because I don't know if you realize like
Speaker 4: how much you're both doing for me. Friends are noticing it,
Speaker 4: my partner's noticing it. Like I'm far more confident in
Speaker 4: just asking questions of my friends and people that I meet.
Speaker 4: I still wouldn't push myself out of my comfort zone
Speaker 4: and you know, god to a stranger or anything. Like
Speaker 4: the conference today, I was still a bit like I
Speaker 4: want to talk to you, but you know, I'm still
Speaker 4: socially awkward and what if I say the wrong thing?
Speaker 4: But in general, yeah, absolutely, it's just been this kind
Speaker 4: of inching forward and it's it's yeah, for me, this
Speaker 4: has been incredibly brave. So I'm not scared of it anymore.
Speaker 4: I'm not talking it down. I'm just absolutely fucking loving it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh and she's swearing fucking ill that's progress. The
Speaker 1: other thing too, is though you know how I say,
Speaker 1: the mountain doesn't change, you change, right, the mountains, the mountain.
Speaker 1: The mountains is the same length, same same gradient, same everything.
Speaker 1: The mountains the mountain. But the more times we go
Speaker 1: to the mountain, you know, we start we're unfit, and
Speaker 1: then we keep going back to the mountain and we
Speaker 1: build fitness and we build muscular endurance, and we understand
Speaker 1: ourselves more and we build a different relationship with the
Speaker 1: mountain and then all of a sudden, the mountain's a
Speaker 1: piece of cake, where in reality the mountain ain't any different.
Speaker 1: And it's like, in this instance public speaking, the you
Speaker 1: project it's probably not a mountain for you. Maybe it
Speaker 1: is a mountain, maybe it's a hill. Right, but we're
Speaker 1: the same you're doing. You know, you're doing the same
Speaker 1: thing that you've done a few other times, but your
Speaker 1: level of skill and competence and confidence has evolved because
Speaker 1: you wanted to do a certain thing. You wanted to
Speaker 1: climb the metaphoric hill, even though you didn't really have
Speaker 1: the fitness or skill or fundamentals at the start. But
Speaker 1: now you've got more knowledge, you've got more confidence, and competence,
Speaker 1: and you've got more fitness for want of a better term. Right,
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, is, like, the only real variable
Speaker 1: that you can control in a constantly over the course
Speaker 1: of your life is yourself. Because most of the shit
Speaker 1: in the world that affects you, that you interact with,
Speaker 1: that plays some role on planet you, most of those
Speaker 1: you can influence, either not at all or only a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know. And so it's your capacity to
Speaker 1: navigate life, controlling your variables, your choices, your behaviors, your actions,
Speaker 1: your reaction, your courage, regulating your fear, leaning into your
Speaker 1: self awareness, your emotional and social and intellectual kind of intelligence. Right,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's always about us. Like we think
Speaker 1: we want to build a better life, what we want
Speaker 1: to really build is a better us. Because when there's
Speaker 1: a better me in the middle of my life, my
Speaker 1: life is better. But if all of a sudden, my
Speaker 1: life practically is better. I've got five houses, I've got
Speaker 1: twenty cars, I've got all the money I need, I'm
Speaker 1: a fucking superstar. I've got a bit, you know. But
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of all of that much better life.
Speaker 1: In inverted commas, I'm still the overthinking, anxious, you know, terrified, whatever.
Speaker 1: Then my life experience, not my life situation, but my
Speaker 1: life experience is shit. So this is the constant for me.
Speaker 1: This is the work. The work is what do you
Speaker 1: need to do? What do you need to do more of?
Speaker 1: What do you need to do less of? I know
Speaker 1: you're scared. I know you overthink. I know you riddled
Speaker 1: periodically with self doubt and all that shit. I get it.
Speaker 1: And I'm not praising you or criticizing you. I'm just
Speaker 1: acknowledging you. And so with all of that in mind, because,
Speaker 1: by the way, that's not gonna melt away accidentally. You're
Speaker 1: not going to accidentally fucking fall on your feet. You're
Speaker 1: not accidentally gonna succeed. You know, the fucking opportunity fairy
Speaker 1: ain't gonna knock on the door like you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: got this opportunity if you see it as an opportunity
Speaker 1: unless you initiated it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, if I hadn't asked it, as I said,
Speaker 4: it would have been no anyway.
Speaker 1: So you initiated it. You did a pretty good job.
Speaker 1: You got another opportunity, did a better job, and that's
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying beyond here is a fucking
Speaker 1: high wall to mark for anything, But here you go.
Speaker 1: I bet there's a bunch of people out there. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not not fifty percent, but there'd be a percentage
Speaker 1: of people listening to this thinking I wish I fucking
Speaker 1: asked that question. I'd love to be on harps of
Speaker 1: show and ask him stuff. But nobody did. Nobody did
Speaker 1: you did?
Speaker 3: Well, you know what's going to happen tilmorrow week?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, too late, the gates closed. We've already
Speaker 1: got Kelly, although she could be shipped for the rest
Speaker 1: of the show, so stand by. No pressure, Yeah, no pressure,
Speaker 1: don't fuck it up, don't jeez all right, where else
Speaker 1: did you want to go? That was good. That was
Speaker 1: a good start. I liked it.
Speaker 4: So from this morning's episode, and I did actually take
Speaker 4: notes this time.
Speaker 3: So you were talking about having the tools.
Speaker 4: To deal with like emotional regulation and anxiety and things
Speaker 4: like that, and your comment was, it doesn't matter what
Speaker 4: you know about all of that when you're in the
Speaker 4: middle of feeling emotionally terrible, and that you know, I
Speaker 4: realized that the past couple of times that I've spoken
Speaker 4: to you both, I've been quite capable of talking about,
Speaker 4: you know, seeing a shrink and dealing with anxiety across
Speaker 4: my life. And that's been because it hasn't been overly
Speaker 4: present at the time, and then the past couple of
Speaker 4: weeks it's been it's been there. So I had this
Speaker 4: kind of big cause of uncertainty and anxiety removed, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, great, you know, happy days.
Speaker 3: I can kind of float through this now.
Speaker 4: But it kind of gave way to this space in
Speaker 4: my brain, in my mind that all of these little
Speaker 4: things started popping up, going, hey, now I'm going to
Speaker 4: I'm going to be the cause of your anxiety, and
Speaker 4: just you know, this kind of spiral.
Speaker 3: It's been fun.
Speaker 4: But yeah, just to really hit home when you said
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter what you know, when you're in the
Speaker 4: middle of it, all of that like it kind of
Speaker 4: drops away. And so that to me was something I thought, well,
Speaker 4: let's have a bit of a chat about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I wouldn't say it doesn't matter, but I'm
Speaker 1: saying sometimes when you're in the motion, in the middle
Speaker 1: of an emotional fucking whirlpool, right, Not that anyone on
Speaker 1: this call, Tiffany Ankle gets in that, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, there have been more than five times where
Speaker 1: I have said to Tiff, right, and by the way,
Speaker 1: TIFFs made fucking phenomenal progress, and she's a champ in
Speaker 1: her own right. But there's been times when we've been
Speaker 1: talking and I've said to you, I've said, Okay, right
Speaker 1: now is the time when all of the shit that
Speaker 1: we talk about theoretically needs to be put into practice,
Speaker 1: you know where. And I'm the same. It's like we
Speaker 1: all do this, like do I ever lose my shit? Well,
Speaker 1: not in an angry way, but where I'm in a
Speaker 1: bit of an emotional whatever, and we all get in
Speaker 1: it and I know what I should be doing, but
Speaker 1: in that emotional state, sometimes I can't fucking do it.
Speaker 1: I probably can, but in that moment. Now, fortunately that's
Speaker 1: not as many times as it used to be. But
Speaker 1: I think the human experience is that, you know, like
Speaker 1: there are like I would know, I need to be
Speaker 1: careful how I say this, and I put myself in
Speaker 1: this group. I know at least fifty personal trainers who
Speaker 1: know how to eat, know how to train, know how
Speaker 1: to manage their body, know pretty much how to make
Speaker 1: good decisions, all of that, But when they're in a
Speaker 1: certain emotional place, they'll eat their own body weight in shit,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that they're quite educated, quite knowledgeable, right,
Speaker 1: And so there are times when in the middle of
Speaker 1: an emotional whatever, we will reach for something or do
Speaker 1: something even though we know it's not the right thing
Speaker 1: to do. Like, we have the intellectual knowledge, but the
Speaker 1: emotion sometimes overwhelms us. Not all the time, but there
Speaker 1: are definitely times when we do things that we know
Speaker 1: we shouldn't do, and that is driven by emotion, not
Speaker 1: logic and not reason in the moment, and I think
Speaker 1: that's just, you know, that's part of the human experience.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are sometimes when you're really really sad
Speaker 1: or really lonely or really anxious, where you're being a
Speaker 1: certain way that you know you don't have to be that,
Speaker 1: but in a state of emotional overwhelm, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: stick your self, help up your ass. I'm just in
Speaker 1: this moment now, And I don't you know, if that's regular,
Speaker 1: that's a problem, but I just think that I think
Speaker 1: that's everybody. I think we need to give ourselves a
Speaker 1: pass sometimes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's actually something that I've referenced my shrink
Speaker 4: a few times.
Speaker 3: But she said It's.
Speaker 4: Quite common that people who are in the middle of
Speaker 4: a lot of self help and you know, relying on
Speaker 4: what she calls like the toolbox, that they almost have
Speaker 4: like an exhaustion from doing that. And you just have
Speaker 4: to kind of have that time out to say, you
Speaker 4: know what, I'm doing the work, but it's okay to
Speaker 4: not do all of the work today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I call them fuck all days. I've done an
Speaker 1: episode on it, and I've done posts on you know,
Speaker 1: have a fuck all day? Do fuck all think about
Speaker 1: fuck all? You know, I mean, done it your own
Speaker 1: body weight in pizza, probably, but take your foot off
Speaker 1: the gas a little bit. Maybe. Yeah, I definitely think
Speaker 1: that like the relentless, obsessive ptute of perfection or improvement,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a good thing. I think there's
Speaker 1: got to be wings and roundabouts, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I think if most of the time you're doing mostly
Speaker 1: good things for your body, for your brain, for your relationships,
Speaker 1: for your life, then you're probably doing better than most.
Speaker 1: And it ain't a competition. But yeah, I think if
Speaker 1: you're being honest and brave and self aware, you know,
Speaker 1: self regulation for humans is tough, and like even with
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about Tiff, who's spoken very openly
Speaker 1: and bravely about, you know, perimenopause over the last i
Speaker 1: don't know, six months or more. Jump in tip five
Speaker 1: fuck any of this up. But I've kind of been
Speaker 1: interested in, you know, like I'm a dude, right, so
Speaker 1: we don't. I mean, men have something that's in the
Speaker 1: ballpark called andropause, but definitely women have, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: a much harder time. But you know that's I mean,
Speaker 1: that is a hormonal and physiological fucking cess. But it's
Speaker 1: also an emotional shit fest, isn't it.
Speaker 2: TIF I was going to say before, the whole idea
Speaker 2: of this is not logic either. Like when we're talking
Speaker 2: about so you might be talking about anxiety, but when
Speaker 2: I think about like some of the conversation's ups and
Speaker 2: I have, it would be more an emotional trigger. And
Speaker 2: I remember years ago going home to Tazzy and talking
Speaker 2: about a time where I just got triggered around mum
Speaker 2: and I was in the middle of that. I was
Speaker 2: just a petulant little asshole there and I couldn't put
Speaker 2: my finger on why, but something in the environment made
Speaker 2: me switch to that place, and I knew I was
Speaker 2: being a little pig, and I knew I was sorry,
Speaker 2: and as soon as I got away from her, I'd
Speaker 2: be able to just reach out and go, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 2: I was being a dick. But in that moment, even
Speaker 2: what though I was aware of it, my body was
Speaker 2: in that state. And that's not logic, and that takes
Speaker 2: time to shift, and the time gets closer and closer
Speaker 2: between it happening and us being able to come back.
Speaker 2: Like the CONVERSATIONSHAPS and I have now, I sat in
Speaker 2: spaces where I would get emotionally I was going to
Speaker 2: say the word we don't say anymore in the world,
Speaker 2: emotionally stilted, and I would know that I've had emotions
Speaker 2: and I couldn't interact the way I wanted. But I
Speaker 2: also knew that they weren't true and that they weren't
Speaker 2: but I didn't know why they were happening, and I
Speaker 2: had to figure them out, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know how to figure them out, Like I don't
Speaker 2: know what to say to you. I have I feel
Speaker 2: like this, but it's not your fault, but it's also
Speaker 2: not mine because I'm not choosing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think like I think sometimes
Speaker 1: with I mean, you know, Tif and I are friends,
Speaker 1: of course, but it's been a mental mentee relationship in
Speaker 1: you know, some ways for a long time. And so
Speaker 1: I think and there'd been moments in there our relationship
Speaker 1: that have been fucking messy, you know, not horrendous, but
Speaker 1: like a bit clunky, haven't they a bit lumpy and bumpy?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And and miscommunication from the two fucking communicators, and you know,
Speaker 1: and definitely Tiff was not always the problem, like equally
Speaker 1: me at least, you know, so it is. I just
Speaker 1: think that these like what we're doing right now is
Speaker 1: just it's so healthy and it's so great to be
Speaker 1: able to go, Yeah, what part of the problem, what
Speaker 1: did I do? Like obviously, when I've pissed Tiff off,
Speaker 1: which I have, or she's pissed me off, which she has,
Speaker 1: but we're not talking about in a really destructive way.
Speaker 1: But it's never been intentional on either way, on either part. Right,
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh you did this, I got annoyed,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I didn't even know. I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: It's not like I was, I can't, I'm like I
Speaker 1: just was somehow was though, you know, But then and
Speaker 1: this is again, this is and I'm sorry for fucking
Speaker 1: boring anyone. By the way, kel will go to six thirty,
Speaker 1: not six twenty as planned. But will you know when
Speaker 1: you open this kind of door? But and I don't
Speaker 1: mean in a bullshit way on a fucking podcast where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh yeah, sure I do that. Not I
Speaker 1: mean really in the real world, in real life, when
Speaker 1: you genuinely try to understand someone else, not agree with them,
Speaker 1: not necessarily endorse their ideas, but you try to understand,
Speaker 1: you try to look through their window. And I reckon,
Speaker 1: I'm I don't think I'm ace at it, but I'm
Speaker 1: pretty good at it. Like with Tiff, I know TIFF's
Speaker 1: love language. I know sometimes she'll send me a message
Speaker 1: about something, doesn't matter what it is, and I'll answer genuinely.
Speaker 1: I'll also answer in a way that I know will
Speaker 1: make her feel good and encourage her, because I want
Speaker 1: to encourage her. Right and and but being able to
Speaker 1: you know, like I I somebody said to me yesterday
Speaker 1: like something like, you've always been intimidating, right, and they
Speaker 1: they this is a lady I used to train, right,
Speaker 1: and I used to train a whole family, and she goes, oh, no,
Speaker 1: we love you. The whole family loves you. In fact,
Speaker 1: they came to me to help them solve quite a
Speaker 1: big problem, right, And I used to I haven't done
Speaker 1: anything with that family for the problem challenge, let's call
Speaker 1: it challenge. But anyway, shid oh no, but we're all
Speaker 1: fucking scared of you, but we love you, right, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's so funny. I like, I've never been
Speaker 1: anything but nice to them. But they would they would,
Speaker 1: you know, when I would say do this, they would
Speaker 1: go okay, Like and because when I train people, as
Speaker 1: Tiff knows, I'm very look so in this room, in
Speaker 1: this scenario, I'm in charge and you're not right. So
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you don't matter, doesn't mean I don't
Speaker 1: care what you think. But if you want to be
Speaker 1: coached by me, then be coached. Like, don't come in
Speaker 1: here and argue like, if you want to train yourself,
Speaker 1: fucking knock yourself out. But if you want me to
Speaker 1: train you, here's what happens. I tell you what to
Speaker 1: do for an hour, you give me money, and then
Speaker 1: fuck off. That's the system. So we're not having a conversation, right, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's just dawning on me. Why I'm intimidating. No, but
Speaker 1: I mean that. I mean that in a fun way,
Speaker 1: like we always had fun, We always laugh, we always
Speaker 1: talk shit. But anyway, I don't know where the fuck
Speaker 1: I was going with that. But oh, we'll talk about emotions.
Speaker 1: I've lost my way kel take over. Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: to get a better host.
Speaker 3: I'm too intimidated.
Speaker 4: Now what you were saying just befoughtif and not to
Speaker 4: you know, completely bypass your training tactics of scaring the
Speaker 4: shit out of people, Craig.
Speaker 3: But when you're in the moment of.
Speaker 4: Like an emotional regression, which is kind of what I
Speaker 4: equate it to, and you kin't of you're going, I
Speaker 4: know that this isn't how I want to be. I
Speaker 4: know that I've got the tools to literally outthink this,
Speaker 4: but there's a part of me that is so overwhelming
Speaker 4: in the moment.
Speaker 3: I find that quite difficult.
Speaker 4: And then I'll just brate myself for it afterwards, going,
Speaker 4: you know what, You've come so far, and you've done
Speaker 4: all this work and you know better, and this isn't
Speaker 4: who you want to be or where you want to go.
Speaker 4: Why did you let this happen? And Yeah, I find
Speaker 4: that still to be quite challenging.
Speaker 2: I've talked about once, like I think like they're hurt
Speaker 2: buttons right, and for me recognizing, okay, what like what
Speaker 2: I need? What did I need? Or do I need?
Speaker 2: What is a part of me need? Once we went
Speaker 2: I went to dinner.
Speaker 3: With Dad and.
Speaker 2: We got our curry and they didn't bring the rice
Speaker 2: and we'd already eat so no, I'm not hungry because
Speaker 2: we've already eaten our entrees and we're about five minutes
Speaker 2: pass us. They don't bring the rice, and Dad's over
Speaker 2: here for a holiday, and I just go bang and
Speaker 2: I'm wild and I can't even keep talking because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know why it's so hard just to get
Speaker 2: the rice out of the rice warm it's over there.
Speaker 2: It was my I don't matter button. And I talked
Speaker 2: about it with doctor Bill and he's like, well, what
Speaker 2: did you need to know? I'm like, well, I hardly
Speaker 2: think that the waitress needs to deal with my emotional ineptity.
Speaker 3: But then a few days.
Speaker 2: Later I was like, okay, but I need to do
Speaker 2: something that tells whatever part of me needed to be
Speaker 2: seen to they needed to be seen, Like I'm just
Speaker 2: you don't have to yell at them, but maybe just
Speaker 2: ask for the rights or address it in some way.
Speaker 2: So I think unpacking it and going what is what
Speaker 2: might the thing be, and what might I need? And
Speaker 2: if it happens next time, what might some one thing
Speaker 2: be that I could try? Because it happens less now
Speaker 2: every time someone was late Harps. If Harps didn't show
Speaker 2: up until two minutes before a guest arrived on the
Speaker 2: podcast in the early days, that was most of my
Speaker 2: issue back then. And I because I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to talk to me. I'm just a
Speaker 2: cog in the machine. He doesn't even like he just
Speaker 2: turns up for that. You know. I'm here, I'm excited,
Speaker 2: I'm finally out of the bamboo and I'm gone on
Speaker 2: the typ podcast just like you are. And he'd rock
Speaker 2: in five minutes before because he's just come out of
Speaker 2: a bloody meeting. But my story was and I couldn't
Speaker 2: pull myself out of that nacky little funk.
Speaker 3: I've never told Harps.
Speaker 1: That that's so interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: funny thing was I was actually avoiding you, so that's
Speaker 1: that's fair. Of course I wasn't that's that is so interesting.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, hell, I've got a question for you. Sure,
Speaker 1: why do you want to do this? Like, yeah, why
Speaker 1: do you want to? I'm glad you are by the way,
Speaker 1: you're good at it, and there's certainly adding value, Like
Speaker 1: what is it that you get from doing this?
Speaker 3: I really enjoy it, And.
Speaker 4: There's I've always felt this need to be creative, and
Speaker 4: I've always been so I you know, my overall goal
Speaker 4: I would like to write, and I do write, but
Speaker 4: I feel like there's a novel like inside of me somewhere.
Speaker 4: But I'm also very impatient. So the time that it
Speaker 4: takes to sit and write a novel, as you know,
Speaker 4: to write a book, like you're giving up and dedicating
Speaker 4: so much time. Well you're not giving up. You're working
Speaker 4: towards something, and you're dedicating so much time towards something
Speaker 4: that you really want. But I am incredibly impatient, and
Speaker 4: so I've been looking for other avenues of well, how
Speaker 4: can I be creative?
Speaker 3: That's almost like it's.
Speaker 4: Instant, But then with this it's been I'm finding that
Speaker 4: personally it's a lot of growth, Like I feel for
Speaker 4: the first time probably ever, a bit of confidence and
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that, you know, in any kind of
Speaker 4: egotistical you know, here's my head swelling kind of way.
Speaker 4: But I do feel a bit of confidence and that's nice,
Speaker 4: and it's it's allowing me to work towards where I
Speaker 4: want to be and who I want to be, which
Speaker 4: I'm feeling is like it's a new version of me,
Speaker 4: and potentially it was always there, but I've always been
Speaker 4: far too scared to embrace or work towards it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, like what's the long game for you? Like,
Speaker 1: is there an end goal or a long game, or
Speaker 1: it's just to have the experience and have some fun
Speaker 1: and develop some skills and gain some insight, or is
Speaker 1: there a bigger picture goal.
Speaker 4: At the moment, I'm really enjoying the experience and I've
Speaker 4: been to two conferences this year and watch the people
Speaker 4: on stage, and for the first time ever, I've thought
Speaker 4: that could potentially be me, Like I could maybe do that.
Speaker 4: So that's I think the next challenge that I'll set
Speaker 4: for myself. I've got a presentation at work next week
Speaker 4: to the senior leaders, and that's my first kind of
Speaker 4: you know obstacle of getting up and you know, presenting
Speaker 4: my work too. I think it's about six people, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Not overly scared of that.
Speaker 4: It's still kind of like, oh shit, well, you know,
Speaker 4: it's the focus will be on me, so that's a
Speaker 4: little bit terrifying. But No, today I was watching the
Speaker 4: presenter and she was incredible. She just had this really
Speaker 4: nice pace. She was very intelligent and very good at
Speaker 4: her job. She didn't actively say, hey, I'm good at
Speaker 4: my job, but in the way that she was speaking
Speaker 4: and what she was presenting, you could very clearly see that,
Speaker 4: and I thought, you know, maybe one day it could
Speaker 4: be could be me and you know, my colleagues on
Speaker 4: that stage presenting work that we've done, because I think
Speaker 4: we do good work for good people and it'd be
Speaker 4: great to share that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I Mean, here's the thing about speakers, like
Speaker 1: I've seen, I've probably seen I don't know how many,
Speaker 1: but a lot of speakers on stages because I go,
Speaker 1: you know, like tomorrow, I'll see another speaker or two
Speaker 1: that I've never seen and never met, and so I'm
Speaker 1: constantly being exposed to people who get on stage and
Speaker 1: talk for a living. And the beauty of it is
Speaker 1: there are so many different kinds of humans who get
Speaker 1: up there who was totally different from the person before,
Speaker 1: and they're both good. It's like they're like, I have
Speaker 1: my way of doing things, and depending on the day,
Speaker 1: usually i'm somewhere between oh, not terrible and okay, And
Speaker 1: then you get up someone else who's just the opposite
Speaker 1: of me, and they're real good like but they don't
Speaker 1: they're not a storyteller, they're not cheeky, they don't walk
Speaker 1: to the edge of the stage and engage the audience.
Speaker 1: They don't do all the bullshit I do. But they're mesmerizing,
Speaker 1: you know. That's the beauty is there's no it's like,
Speaker 1: there's no best kind of art. There's just a myriad
Speaker 1: of art. You know. That's not like, oh, what's the
Speaker 1: best music? You go like, that's it dumb because there's
Speaker 1: so many different kinds of music that are beautiful. And
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that's exactly it. The Tiff just pointed
Speaker 1: to the box of the album by Mark Simour, of
Speaker 1: which she's proudly adorning the front best music what self
Speaker 1: esteem issues? None? But I love that. But yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think public speaking is for me, it's much more
Speaker 1: of a creative process, well for me anyway. Right. It's
Speaker 1: like the intersection of information, creativity, and even entertainment. You
Speaker 1: know where you've got to you don't have to. But
Speaker 1: I always think, Okay, so I know some stuff I've
Speaker 1: got to talk tomorrow. For now, I've got to talk
Speaker 1: from nine to ten to ten ten in the morning.
Speaker 1: Opening keynote, I go, sure, So I know a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. You know, well, of all there is to know,
Speaker 1: I know fuck all. But I know more than enough
Speaker 1: to talk for an hour, and I know some stuff
Speaker 1: that's pretty fascinating and interesting. But the real question is
Speaker 1: can I get up there with great energy, build an experience,
Speaker 1: read the room, create connection, tell a funny story, share
Speaker 1: some great ideas and information, and maybe a bit of
Speaker 1: science and maybe a bit of oh fuck, listen to
Speaker 1: those statistics, maybe a bit of that, And then can
Speaker 1: I create something that then becomes a catalyst for action
Speaker 1: and real world results. Like that's how I think about it,
Speaker 1: whereas a lot of people completely understandably would be can
Speaker 1: I get up there and say what I've got to
Speaker 1: say without fucking it up? Like that's that's the extent
Speaker 1: of there, which you know, I get it, I get it,
Speaker 1: But over time you just become you know, I know
Speaker 1: I can get up and talk for an now that's
Speaker 1: not the issue. I want it to be great for
Speaker 1: them though, you know, like my goal is when I finish,
Speaker 1: my main goal is that they go that was great.
Speaker 1: He's great. I would like to hear him again. That's it,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of my personal goals, But in
Speaker 1: terms of goals for them, I hope that it opens
Speaker 1: a door on something that for them is potentially transformational
Speaker 1: moving forward. You know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've got a question. Do you prefer to
Speaker 2: be the opening or closing keynote?
Speaker 1: Definitely opening?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because everyone's in their best energy, everyone's tired at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, start of the day, everyone's
Speaker 1: a bit pumped. And for me anyway, like I like
Speaker 1: being the opening keynote, setting up the day, you know,
Speaker 1: and hopefully creating a good experience out of the gate
Speaker 1: for people. But having said that, I'm I'll talk anywhere.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes I I would the worst spot to speak, well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to let you guess when's the worst time
Speaker 1: of day to speak as a speaker. There's actually, as
Speaker 1: a professional speaker, there's two times. One you definitely don't
Speaker 1: want to fucking speak. It's a fucking nightmare. The other
Speaker 1: one is it's not that bad, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's close. So what do you what do you think?
Speaker 1: People never think about this understandably.
Speaker 4: Well, having been just at a conference today, I would
Speaker 4: dare say before or after lunch?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so after lunch, because people are people's brain
Speaker 1: function goes down after they eat. They're a bit more tired,
Speaker 1: they're a bit more dopey, they're a bit more laid back,
Speaker 1: they're not you know. So, but before lunch also is
Speaker 1: not great. After lunch, I mean, it is what it is,
Speaker 1: you know, But I try and bring if I do
Speaker 1: an after lunch thing, I'm very mindful of that. The
Speaker 1: worst ever is talking during a dinner where they have
Speaker 1: a dinner and you are the speaker, and while you
Speaker 1: are speaking, there are fucking people walking around the room
Speaker 1: handing out dinners, and people at table going, Kelly, can
Speaker 1: you pass me the salt tiff? How's the chicken? What's it?
Speaker 1: And fucking Harps is up there trying to inspire the
Speaker 1: masses that are fucking preoccupied with their fucking chicken parma
Speaker 1: or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Well, you ain't no what I feel it halps, So.
Speaker 1: I say, definitely, I'd tell you.
Speaker 3: What I know where my attention would be.
Speaker 1: Kell. Have you got one quick last question or are
Speaker 1: we done and dusted up to you? I'm good either way.
Speaker 4: One quick last question and this is going back to
Speaker 4: what we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, and it's just for both of you.
Speaker 4: Is there something that you're scared of at the moment
Speaker 4: that you're going to do anyway?
Speaker 1: Oh scared, I'm I'm just for me, like the next
Speaker 1: few months of my I apologize for talking about it,
Speaker 1: but it's just what's preoccupying my life at the moment,
Speaker 1: just my PhD, like handing in. I'm scared, like I've
Speaker 1: got to submit in a few months, which is handing
Speaker 1: all my work. Yeah, so it's I'm not scared terrified,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, oh, this is this is And every
Speaker 1: time I do something i'm I feel like obviously I'm not,
Speaker 1: but I feel like I'm out of my depth. And
Speaker 1: but the funny thing is, in terms of my area
Speaker 1: of research, you know, metacognition, metaperception, you know, meta accuracy,
Speaker 1: all that kind of understanding how others think theory of
Speaker 1: mind and understanding how others think about us met a perception.
Speaker 1: There's probably not a lot of people in Australia that
Speaker 1: a lot more about it than me, to be honest,
Speaker 1: just because I've just studied it for six years straight.
Speaker 1: But I you know, but I still feel like I'm
Speaker 1: not the academic that all the others are, you know.
Speaker 1: So there's that. But I'll plow on, tiff, what about
Speaker 1: you once?
Speaker 2: I'm doing a speaking course, and speaking always puts me
Speaker 2: in a bit of a tears. I'm always quite nervous beforehand,
Speaker 2: as Harpers as well aware, but love it. But this
Speaker 2: is scary because within it, I've had to create frameworks
Speaker 2: and try things that aren't the way I do things.
Speaker 2: And I want to do that to its entirety before
Speaker 2: I bin any of it just because it's not me,
Speaker 2: just because it's not the way I work. So that's
Speaker 2: scary because hopefully, hopefully I'll be able to do it
Speaker 2: as a speaker at the end of year event, because
Speaker 2: a small number of us will be which means I'll
Speaker 2: be doing that in front of a hundreds of people,
Speaker 2: and I will be really scared of that.
Speaker 1: You know. What's the good thing about that? Forew I
Speaker 1: reckon is because as you so you have you have
Speaker 1: a certain way of presenting, and you are a storyteller.
Speaker 1: You're cheeky, you're a bit freestyle, you're a bit loosey goosey,
Speaker 1: and they're going, yeah, we want you to do the
Speaker 1: opposite of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we want you to
Speaker 1: leave that room and come into this room where, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can still tell your stories and stuff, but it's
Speaker 1: quite formulaic, it's quite structured, it's quite process driven.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I completely and I've said to you, I
Speaker 1: think it's even if you even if you only take
Speaker 1: or incorporate a little bit of that, eventually, you know,
Speaker 1: it's still great to learn another way because there'll be
Speaker 1: stuff that you do take out of that that becomes
Speaker 1: intertwined with your normal operating system in that space.
Speaker 2: Well, there's stuff that's come from it that even if
Speaker 2: I if I try it and then I go, I
Speaker 2: don't like speaking in that way, I'm going back to
Speaker 2: how I've always done it. I've already learned stuff that
Speaker 2: are transferable skills. It's changed the whole learning and content
Speaker 2: development process for me. And I think that happens when
Speaker 2: we do things that scare us. They always change us
Speaker 2: in ways we don't expect or think, and it's stepping
Speaker 2: into scary stuff that gives us those things. And when
Speaker 2: we don't do what we miss out.
Speaker 1: M Hey, before we go. This is completely fucking random
Speaker 1: and left field to everything we've spoken about. So Nova
Speaker 1: asked me to do a ad for the U Project
Speaker 1: for Radio right, there's already one that circulates. So they said,
Speaker 1: do you want to because we're gonna we're going to
Speaker 1: advertise your show across I think smooth and over, which
Speaker 1: I think is the say I should fucking know, shouldn't I? Yeah,
Speaker 1: do better? Harps shout out to the sponsors, of course,
Speaker 1: who I love the shows, the stations anyway, they said,
Speaker 1: So I wrote a new ad for today which they
Speaker 1: haven't got yet. So I want to read it to you,
Speaker 1: and I want you to tell me if it's shit
Speaker 1: or okay, you ready? I could fuck it up. I'm
Speaker 1: Craig Harper, host of The You Project, one of Australia's
Speaker 1: longest running podcasts, exploring the wonders and weirdness of human behavior, mind, body, emotion,
Speaker 1: all the human stuff. Unlike some of the more self
Speaker 1: helpy magic Pilly Quick FIXI Psychobabbly Podcasts. We're a little more.
Speaker 1: Roll up your sleeves, stop wasting your potential, get your
Speaker 1: ship together, and stop waiting for the mystical, magical right time.
Speaker 1: And yes, I said ship, You're welcome the You Project.
Speaker 1: Take a listen. What do you think? I love it?
Speaker 3: That's great?
Speaker 1: Is it okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, you know when you look at your own
Speaker 1: ship and you're like, I think that's okay, but it
Speaker 1: could be fucking terrible. Oh good, Now, do you two
Speaker 1: actually like it or you're just being nice to me.
Speaker 2: I'm just being nice on air.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely rid us awful.
Speaker 1: Fucking Tucker. All right, Well back in therapy for fat
Speaker 1: so Tiff get stuffed and Kel that's your last episode.
Speaker 1: Fuck you both. All right, Thanks everyone that's been to
Speaker 1: you project. Nah, just kidding, just kidding. Thanks Kel. That
Speaker 1: was great. You were great. Tiff, you were not quite
Speaker 1: as great, but you're good.
Speaker 3: You know my buttons now.
Speaker 1: But you're both better than me, so that's the main thing.
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll talk off air, but Kelly, thank you, Tiff,
Speaker 1: thank
Speaker 3: You, thank you, thank you.