1 00:00:03,430 --> 00:00:06,990 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We 2 00:00:06,990 --> 00:00:09,930 Sean Aylmer: love talking about the banks simply because they're so big 3 00:00:09,930 --> 00:00:13,730 Sean Aylmer: and so important to the Australian economy, but the world 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,620 Sean Aylmer: is changing, mostly because of technology. There are more challenges 5 00:00:17,620 --> 00:00:20,900 Sean Aylmer: to the traditional banks, branches are closing, and the industry 6 00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:25,560 Sean Aylmer: is evolving. EY recently released the global next wave consumer 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,060 Sean Aylmer: banking service, which looks at the relationship between consumers and 8 00:00:29,060 --> 00:00:32,180 Sean Aylmer: banks and where the sector is heading. Tim Dring is 9 00:00:32,180 --> 00:00:35,479 Sean Aylmer: the Oceania Banking and Capital Markets leader at EY. Tim, 10 00:00:35,909 --> 00:00:38,050 Sean Aylmer: welcome back to Fear and Greed and happy new year. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,540 Tim Dring: Great. Same to you, Sean. And glad to be with you. 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,479 Sean Aylmer: Overall, a vast majority of Australians still have a primary 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,360 Sean Aylmer: financial relationship with a traditional bank. Is that right? 14 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:50,560 Tim Dring: That's correct. I mean, that's still the dominant feature of 15 00:00:50,590 --> 00:00:53,730 Tim Dring: not only our market, but also the global market as 16 00:00:53,730 --> 00:00:57,730 Tim Dring: well, Sean, but our surveys indicated that is changing. 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,470 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So when you talk about " it's changing," let's define Neobanks 18 00:01:03,470 --> 00:01:05,940 Sean Aylmer: first, and then I want to get onto Apple Pay 19 00:01:05,940 --> 00:01:09,990 Sean Aylmer: and those sorts of products as well. So, is that where people are 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,289 Sean Aylmer: going, albeit at low numbers, and will continue to go? 21 00:01:13,930 --> 00:01:18,980 Tim Dring: Yeah, it's a good segue. Let's define what the Neobank 22 00:01:18,980 --> 00:01:22,490 Tim Dring: is in our survey context. So, we surveyed 12, 000 and 23 00:01:22,490 --> 00:01:26,869 Tim Dring: customers globally across 14 different markets, and a lot of 24 00:01:26,950 --> 00:01:31,780 Tim Dring: those were from developed economies and developing economies. The term 25 00:01:32,490 --> 00:01:35,520 Tim Dring: Neobank though that we are using is not necessarily an 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,040 Tim Dring: entity with a banking license, like perhaps a traditional bank 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,699 Tim Dring: that's offering deposits and mortgages, but one that's offering I'll 28 00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:47,150 Tim Dring: call a broader financial services or Fintechs, in particularly payments, 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,150 Tim Dring: perhaps in contrast to traditional banks. So, that's how we 30 00:01:52,150 --> 00:01:56,940 Tim Dring: have defined the Neobanks, but that shape of that market 31 00:01:57,210 --> 00:01:59,610 Tim Dring: has changed significantly from the last time we did the 32 00:01:59,610 --> 00:02:07,010 Tim Dring: survey, and globally, now, we've got 27% globally surveyed have 33 00:02:07,010 --> 00:02:11,940 Tim Dring: a relationship with a Neobank. Now, that's significantly up on 34 00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:15,500 Tim Dring: prior years, almost double, but that's higher than certainly the 35 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:17,561 Tim Dring: Australian context where it's about 10%. 36 00:02:17,561 --> 00:02:20,389 Sean Aylmer: So are we talking about things like buying now, pay 37 00:02:20,389 --> 00:02:21,260 Sean Aylmer: later groups? 38 00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:25,270 Tim Dring: Yeah. Buy now, pay later, payment engines, all of those 39 00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:29,720 Tim Dring: sorts of Fintechs predominantly in that payment ecosystem. And also, 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,770 Tim Dring: some of the newer banks that have certainly hit our 41 00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:37,460 Tim Dring: Australian marketplace that have banking licenses and restricted banking licenses 42 00:02:37,460 --> 00:02:37,850 Tim Dring: as well. 43 00:02:39,050 --> 00:02:40,840 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now, for a very short part of my career, I 44 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,740 Sean Aylmer: worked as a fund manager and I remember what really 45 00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:45,500 Sean Aylmer: hit me was, people would come in and trust you 46 00:02:45,850 --> 00:02:49,769 Sean Aylmer: with millions of dollars to invest their money, at least 47 00:02:49,770 --> 00:02:53,339 Sean Aylmer: the team I was working in. That trust thing, it 48 00:02:53,450 --> 00:02:56,980 Sean Aylmer: amazed me that someone would trust this group of people 49 00:02:56,980 --> 00:03:01,230 Sean Aylmer: I was working with to invest $ 20 million, for example. 50 00:03:01,660 --> 00:03:04,370 Sean Aylmer: You can laugh about it, but at the end of the day, trust 51 00:03:04,540 --> 00:03:07,790 Sean Aylmer: has to be the most important part in this financial relationship. 52 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,930 Tim Dring: Absolutely. And, that came out very strongly from our survey 53 00:03:11,930 --> 00:03:16,410 Tim Dring: as well. In fact, the traditional banks ranked far higher 54 00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:19,959 Tim Dring: on the trust equation than the Neos at this point 55 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,570 Tim Dring: in time. But I think that is changing. And it's interesting, when we 56 00:03:22,570 --> 00:03:27,429 Tim Dring: looked at the top reasons for trusting as their primary 57 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:33,410 Tim Dring: financial relationship provider, confidence in data was number one, and 58 00:03:33,410 --> 00:03:37,140 Tim Dring: that is certainly true for traditional banks. So, the view 59 00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:41,040 Tim Dring: is, the consumers felt that traditional banks protect their data 60 00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:43,950 Tim Dring: perhaps more so than Fintechs. And, whilst it was in 61 00:03:43,950 --> 00:03:46,840 Tim Dring: the top five for Fintechs and Neos, it just wasn't 62 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,930 Tim Dring: number one. But what was number one on the trust 63 00:03:49,930 --> 00:03:55,370 Tim Dring: equation for Neos was that they respect the customer perhaps 64 00:03:55,370 --> 00:03:56,900 Tim Dring: more than what a traditional bank did. 65 00:03:57,580 --> 00:03:59,810 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, do you think, if that's the case, are the banks 66 00:03:59,980 --> 00:04:04,480 Sean Aylmer: moving down the path quickly enough to actually provide services 67 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,660 Sean Aylmer: that customers want, which is kind of what the Neo 68 00:04:06,660 --> 00:04:07,680 Sean Aylmer: banks are pretty good at? 69 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:12,220 Tim Dring: That's exactly right. And, perhaps this is an opportunity I 70 00:04:12,220 --> 00:04:15,560 Tim Dring: think for traditional banks. They've got that I'll call that 71 00:04:15,710 --> 00:04:20,969 Tim Dring: advantage of incumbency, that advantage of tenure, and trust is 72 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:24,510 Tim Dring: I think a function of both of those, but then 73 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:28,290 Tim Dring: the next level is, consumers are wanting more. They're wanting 74 00:04:28,290 --> 00:04:32,520 Tim Dring: more and we've defined it as super apps, so integrated offerings, if 75 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,980 Tim Dring: you like, and tailored offerings to their customers, and that is 76 00:04:35,980 --> 00:04:40,610 Tim Dring: where I think Neobanks and Fintechs more broadly have probably 77 00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:43,540 Tim Dring: got the jump at this point in time on traditional 78 00:04:43,540 --> 00:04:46,580 Tim Dring: banks. So, consumers are after more, and that was not 79 00:04:46,580 --> 00:04:50,910 Tim Dring: only through, I'll call it your lower age demographics, which 80 00:04:50,910 --> 00:04:55,080 Tim Dring: typically might be more associated with Neobanks, but that also 81 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,880 Tim Dring: played out right across the market. But certainly, the younger 82 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,409 Tim Dring: cohort, millennials and forth, that was probably the strongest signal. 83 00:05:03,710 --> 00:05:05,560 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Tim. We'll be back in a minute. 84 00:05:10,380 --> 00:05:13,480 Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Tim Dring. Oceania Banking and Capital 85 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,070 Sean Aylmer: Markets leader at EY. So, do you think the banks are doing enough 86 00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:20,540 Sean Aylmer: around technology? Commonwealth Bank arguably is doing most for the 87 00:05:20,540 --> 00:05:22,920 Sean Aylmer: big four though, though that's probably the debatable, but if we 88 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,219 Sean Aylmer: take them as an example, they're certainly trying to get 89 00:05:25,220 --> 00:05:28,450 Sean Aylmer: into that buy now, pay later space. Around apps, they've 90 00:05:28,450 --> 00:05:31,150 Sean Aylmer: done a lot of work. Is it the incumbency issue 91 00:05:31,150 --> 00:05:33,640 Sean Aylmer: actually has its drawbacks as well, they can't do enough? 92 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,080 Tim Dring: I think they probably can't do enough in the space 93 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,800 Tim Dring: of time that they have, and I think most of 94 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,440 Tim Dring: them do have legacy systems that constrains their ability to 95 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,070 Tim Dring: move quickly and be nimble in their offerings. So, I 96 00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:50,650 Tim Dring: think they're trying to do as much as they can 97 00:05:50,730 --> 00:05:53,590 Tim Dring: with trying to operate within the constraints that they have. 98 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,779 Tim Dring: But it's fair to say from what our survey has indicated, that 99 00:05:57,779 --> 00:06:00,510 Tim Dring: pace of change, they've just got to accelerate their investment 100 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:03,849 Tim Dring: in this space. Whether they do it alone, Sean, whether 101 00:06:03,850 --> 00:06:06,080 Tim Dring: they partner with others. And the other thing that came 102 00:06:06,270 --> 00:06:09,330 Tim Dring: out through our survey too, and this has been reasonably 103 00:06:09,330 --> 00:06:13,920 Tim Dring: consistent, is that perhaps bigger tech companies are also more 104 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,100 Tim Dring: trusted than banks as well. So, in offering services, in 105 00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:23,729 Tim Dring: tailoring their services and customization. So, perhaps the speed to 106 00:06:23,730 --> 00:06:27,489 Tim Dring: market could be accelerated through alliances with some of those 107 00:06:27,660 --> 00:06:28,720 Tim Dring: larger tech companies. 108 00:06:29,330 --> 00:06:31,940 Sean Aylmer: If you take Westpac, they've been quite happy to white 109 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,010 Sean Aylmer: label products that have a different take on strategy compared 110 00:06:35,010 --> 00:06:37,089 Sean Aylmer: to the other three. Is that the sort of thing 111 00:06:37,089 --> 00:06:38,779 Sean Aylmer: that you expect to see more of? 112 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,039 Tim Dring: Yeah, that's exactly right. And speed to market's important, product 113 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:48,089 Tim Dring: development is important, and we have seen banks acquire other 114 00:06:48,089 --> 00:06:51,989 Tim Dring: Neobanks, traditional banks acquire Neobanks for that very reason, Sean, 115 00:06:51,990 --> 00:06:56,089 Tim Dring: because there is a speed to market that's imperative, there's 116 00:06:56,089 --> 00:06:58,420 Tim Dring: new technology that's been built out so they can get 117 00:06:58,420 --> 00:07:03,140 Tim Dring: to market faster and deliver tailored propositions to their customers 118 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:05,920 Tim Dring: in a better way than perhaps the incumbent banks are 119 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:06,560 Tim Dring: doing at the moment. 120 00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:09,440 Sean Aylmer: So, do you think the days of having one bank are over? 121 00:07:10,290 --> 00:07:13,120 Tim Dring: Yeah, that is right, to some extent, and we have 122 00:07:13,130 --> 00:07:16,760 Tim Dring: seen through this survey. And, whilst traditional banks still have 123 00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:21,790 Tim Dring: a larger share of products per customers than Neos, the 124 00:07:21,790 --> 00:07:25,160 Tim Dring: Neos aren't too far behind. So, therefore, I think that's 125 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,020 Tim Dring: demonstrating that customers are happy to have a relationship with 126 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:32,650 Tim Dring: a number of organizations and, in particular, where we've seen 127 00:07:33,020 --> 00:07:38,160 Tim Dring: globally now that 27% of customers have had a relationship 128 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,150 Tim Dring: or have an account with a Neobank, that's nearly a 129 00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:44,670 Tim Dring: third of the customers surveyed. So, it's starting to become 130 00:07:44,670 --> 00:07:48,360 Tim Dring: quite significant. And perhaps there's a couple of things that have driven 131 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,340 Tim Dring: that, Sean. I think, there's no doubt, through the pandemic, 132 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,450 Tim Dring: with the move to online shopping and move away from 133 00:07:54,690 --> 00:07:57,250 Tim Dring: bricks and mortar transactions, we have seen the rise in 134 00:07:57,250 --> 00:08:00,760 Tim Dring: take up of some of those products in a faster 135 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,400 Tim Dring: fashion than perhaps we would've without the pandemic. 136 00:08:03,570 --> 00:08:07,010 Sean Aylmer: And do you think regulation is keeping up? Open banking was 137 00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:10,190 Sean Aylmer: certainly touted as a game changer. It probably has to 138 00:08:10,190 --> 00:08:14,690 Sean Aylmer: some extent, though I'm not quite sure how dramatic that's 139 00:08:14,690 --> 00:08:17,820 Sean Aylmer: been in the real world. What do you think about 140 00:08:18,020 --> 00:08:19,470 Sean Aylmer: regulation and open banking? 141 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,300 Tim Dring: I think open banking, there's no doubt that it has taken 142 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:26,220 Tim Dring: some time to get to our market, and it's still 143 00:08:26,770 --> 00:08:29,030 Tim Dring: early days. We have seen other markets where it has 144 00:08:29,030 --> 00:08:33,260 Tim Dring: played out faster, particularly in the UK, and I think 145 00:08:33,260 --> 00:08:35,270 Tim Dring: a lot of our banks, perhaps saw it as a 146 00:08:35,270 --> 00:08:37,819 Tim Dring: compliance exercise, Sean, to begin with, and no doubt, it 147 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,950 Tim Dring: was a big compliance exercise in actually just getting ready 148 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:45,290 Tim Dring: to provide customer data, but through the Consumer Data Rights. 149 00:08:45,290 --> 00:08:48,630 Tim Dring: But I think it is quickly turning their attention now 150 00:08:48,630 --> 00:08:51,469 Tim Dring: to, actually, how do we turn this into a strategic 151 00:08:51,470 --> 00:08:54,959 Tim Dring: element? How do we leverage relationships? How do we develop 152 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:59,270 Tim Dring: broader ecosystems? How do we share data with Neos? How do we 153 00:08:59,270 --> 00:09:03,280 Tim Dring: partner with Neos, as well? Because payments, if I look 154 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:08,140 Tim Dring: at Asia, 95% of the consumers surveyed through mainland China 155 00:09:08,570 --> 00:09:14,100 Tim Dring: transact their payments digitally. That's significant for an emerging company, 156 00:09:14,330 --> 00:09:19,550 Tim Dring: yet only 56% of them transact with their institution through 157 00:09:19,550 --> 00:09:23,699 Tim Dring: deposit accounts. So, the rise of payments I think has 158 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:27,000 Tim Dring: been exponential in the last few years. And, that's where 159 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,959 Tim Dring: I think, as the majors and regionals start to pivot 160 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,330 Tim Dring: more towards some of those services, open banking's going to be critical. 161 00:09:34,870 --> 00:09:36,390 Sean Aylmer: Do we care about branches anymore? 162 00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:40,640 Tim Dring: Really good question. I think through the pandemic we've seen 163 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,530 Tim Dring: perhaps we are not as reliant on branches as we 164 00:09:43,530 --> 00:09:47,140 Tim Dring: once were, but they still play a feature. And that 165 00:09:47,140 --> 00:09:51,880 Tim Dring: trust importance that are highlighted earlier, that dominating feature of 166 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,579 Tim Dring: traditional banks, branches are still very important, perhaps maybe the 167 00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:59,570 Tim Dring: less so in Australia relative to other countries, but certainly 168 00:09:59,570 --> 00:10:01,929 Tim Dring: in parts of Asia, the branch network is still very 169 00:10:01,929 --> 00:10:06,210 Tim Dring: important. And on those trust metrics that I touched on, 170 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:11,079 Tim Dring: actually, the second highest reason for trust, even in Australia, 171 00:10:11,470 --> 00:10:14,530 Tim Dring: was to have a branch nearby so you can reach 172 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:16,760 Tim Dring: them when you want. Now, clearly for an EO bank, 173 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,420 Tim Dring: that's not even on the radar, but it's still very 174 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:22,870 Tim Dring: much up there for consumers, and I think it's less 175 00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:27,830 Tim Dring: about now perhaps acquiring services, but it's moreso the assistance 176 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:30,839 Tim Dring: and the fallback position should a consumer need to reach 177 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,140 Tim Dring: out to their bank in a more tangible manner. 178 00:10:33,010 --> 00:10:35,510 Sean Aylmer: The world has changed enormously in the last five years, 179 00:10:35,510 --> 00:10:38,540 Sean Aylmer: Tim, in the banking landscape, and buy now, pay later 180 00:10:38,540 --> 00:10:40,840 Sean Aylmer: is the obvious one, but two or three years ago, 181 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,690 Sean Aylmer: we were talking a lot about the banks and the 182 00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:47,270 Sean Aylmer: trust equation with customers. Westpac certainly paid a massive fine 183 00:10:47,740 --> 00:10:50,610 Sean Aylmer: over anti- money laundering. I don't think there was anyone 184 00:10:50,610 --> 00:10:53,530 Sean Aylmer: meaning to do anything wrong in that instance, but processes 185 00:10:53,530 --> 00:10:57,100 Sean Aylmer: fell down. The Banking Royal Commission hit all the banks, 186 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,650 Sean Aylmer: to some extent, including AMP. Has that all passed us, 187 00:11:00,650 --> 00:11:03,190 Sean Aylmer: do you think? Do you think the banks have recovered from 188 00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:03,700 Sean Aylmer: that shock? 189 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:08,110 Tim Dring: Look, I think it was a defining point for them and they've 190 00:11:08,110 --> 00:11:12,330 Tim Dring: paid out billions of dollars in compensation, remediation payments to 191 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:16,510 Tim Dring: customers, whether it be through offset accounts, not working or 192 00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:20,120 Tim Dring: wealth products, etc. So, that has gone a long way 193 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,240 Tim Dring: to restore trust, I think. Globally, the trust equation is 194 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,410 Tim Dring: very important, right across all markets, and not every market 195 00:11:28,460 --> 00:11:31,540 Tim Dring: in the world, Sean, has been through a Royal Commission 196 00:11:31,540 --> 00:11:34,790 Tim Dring: like we have. It's still very high up there globally, 83% 197 00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:39,380 Tim Dring: globally. So, Australia is actually at 72% for traditional banks, 198 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,179 Tim Dring: still behind the trust equation. And perhaps, prior to the 199 00:11:43,179 --> 00:11:46,090 Tim Dring: Royal Commission, that number would've been less. But, I think 200 00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:49,080 Tim Dring: the way the banks, particularly the traditional banks, have dealt 201 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,360 Tim Dring: with consumers through the pandemic, the hardship provisions that have been 202 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,740 Tim Dring: offered, the deferrals. I think all of those things have 203 00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:59,270 Tim Dring: really gone a long way to restoring trust in the 204 00:11:59,270 --> 00:12:04,700 Tim Dring: marketplace and perhaps trying to leave some of those legacy 205 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:08,130 Tim Dring: issues that did burden them through the Royal Commission behind 206 00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:09,880 Tim Dring: them. And a lot of that was through their wealth 207 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,150 Tim Dring: businesses, which they've all pretty much now divested of. 208 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,309 Sean Aylmer: So, looking into the crystal ball over the next couple 209 00:12:16,309 --> 00:12:19,109 Sean Aylmer: of years, what do you think it looks like for 210 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:21,580 Sean Aylmer: banks and for Neobanks? 211 00:12:21,580 --> 00:12:23,929 Tim Dring: I think Neobanks are going to gain even more and more 212 00:12:23,929 --> 00:12:27,589 Tim Dring: market share. They're going to offer more and more products and, let's 213 00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:31,330 Tim Dring: say Neobanks in the stricter sense that those that actually have a 214 00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:35,069 Tim Dring: banking license, they've now started to look at the other side 215 00:12:35,070 --> 00:12:38,380 Tim Dring: of the balance sheet, not just deposits but loans. I 216 00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:41,990 Tim Dring: think we'll see traditional banks start to diversify as well, 217 00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:45,660 Tim Dring: build out broader relationships, particularly with Fintechs, that's going to 218 00:12:45,660 --> 00:12:48,460 Tim Dring: be really important. And you touched on white labeling, and that's 219 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,200 Tim Dring: going to be key. Continuing investment in technology, whether that 220 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,730 Tim Dring: is partnering with some bigger tech players, I think that's 221 00:12:56,730 --> 00:13:00,490 Tim Dring: a possibility, or alternatively, some of those tech players moving 222 00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:03,500 Tim Dring: into the banking space. So, there's a lot going on. 223 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,590 Tim Dring: There's no doubt that the market is still very competitive. 224 00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:09,170 Tim Dring: It's still a low interest rate environment. We've obviously got 225 00:13:09,170 --> 00:13:13,240 Tim Dring: some threats of rates rising, but margins are tight and 226 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,840 Tim Dring: competition, I think certainly for deposit products and in particular 227 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,189 Tim Dring: for mortgage products, has never been more intense. 228 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,110 Sean Aylmer: Tim, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 229 00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:24,290 Tim Dring: Great to be with you again, Sean. Thanks. 230 00:13:24,380 --> 00:13:27,860 Sean Aylmer: That was Tim Dring, Oceania Banking and Capital Markets leader 231 00:13:27,950 --> 00:13:30,830 Sean Aylmer: at EY. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. 232 00:13:30,830 --> 00:13:33,370 Sean Aylmer: Join me every morning for the full Fear and Greed 233 00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:36,510 Sean Aylmer: podcast, with the business news you need to know. I'm 234 00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:38,040 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.