1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, March twelve, twenty twenty five. The plot thickens 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: in a string of anti Semitic attacks. Now police say 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: a former high ranking bikey boss directed hired criminals to 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: firebomb a business. That's after authorities revealed their theory a 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: caravan packed with explosives was a criminal conjob, multiple alleged 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: offenders and now before the courts. And you can follow 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: the twists and turns in this story at the Australian 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: dot com au. Ukraine has accepted a thirty day ceasefire 10 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: proposal orchestrated by the United States, with negotiations to commence 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: immediately with Russia. Now, the Americans say the ball is 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: in Vladimir Putin's court to accept the truce or not. 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: Just hours to go until the United States punishing tariffs 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: on Australian steel and aluminium kick in as the White 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: House rejects Australia's please for an exemption. In the middle 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: of all that, Donald Trump and Malcolm Turnbull have been 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: going at each other's throats. 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: What's that all about. 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: And what does it do to our economy and our politics. 20 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: If you go scrolling through Donald J. Trump's social media 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: feed on his preferred platform, Truth Social, you'll step into 22 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: the president's very public, private world. We've used an AI 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: voice generator to bring some of the president's thoughts to life. 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: There are opinions. 25 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: Nobody has been tougher on Russia than Donald Trump. 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: Memes, grabs of Trump out and about. 27 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 3: And We're going to become so rich, You're not going 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: to know where to spend all that money. I'm telling you, 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: you just watch. 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: And then a vicious attack on a former Australian Prime minister. 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: Malcolm Turnbull, the former Prime minige st of Australia, who 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: was always leading that wonderful country from behind, never understood 33 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 3: what was going on in China, nor did he have 34 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: the capacity to do so. 35 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're here. 36 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 3: I always thought he was a weak and ineffective leader, 37 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 3: and obviously Australians agreed with me. 38 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was responding to an interview with Bloomberg where 39 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Malcolm Turnbull, as he does quite a lot these days, 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: gave his frank assessment of the President, in this case 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: on his desire for retaliatory tariffs on America's trading partners. 42 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 4: So you're seeing a much more undiluted Donald Trump second 43 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 4: time around. People are very pessimistic about the consequence of 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 4: his policies. I mean, if this triggers a global wave 45 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 4: of protectionism around the world, that's clearly going to be 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 4: bad for business everywhere. Trump seems to have a view 47 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 4: that America can prosper at the expense of everybody else. 48 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 4: But that's not going to work, that's right, And. 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: This is the bit that one suspects got the president 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: all riled up. 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 4: I think China will take advantage, massive advantage of Trump. 52 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 4: But my prediction will be that presidency will aim to 53 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 4: be the exact opposite of Trump. Where Trump is chaotic, 54 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 4: he will be consistent. Where Trump is rude and abusive, 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 4: he'll be respectful. Where Trump is erratic, he will be consistent. 56 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 4: And what that will do is build trust with countries. 57 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: And there will be many countries who will looking at 58 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 4: China on the one hand and Trump on the other, 59 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 4: will find China a more attractive partner. 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's chief political correspondent. Jeff, the 61 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: thing that seems to have got Donald Trump annoyed is 62 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: an interview with Bloomberg where Malcolm Turnbull talked about Trump's 63 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: tariff's policy, but then also said that President Shijinping of 64 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: China would really take massive advantage of Trump, would out 65 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: negotiate him. What is your sense of whether it was 66 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: a good idea for Malcolm Turnbull to get involved in 67 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: this conversation with Trump. 68 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 5: I don't think that Malcolm Turnbull cares much for whether 69 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 5: things are good ideas or not. He loves the limelight, 70 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 5: and we've got prime ministers that step away from the 71 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 5: public sphere and in recent times, whether it's Malcolm Turnbull, 72 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 5: Kevin rad or Paul Keating, that you're seeing prime ministers 73 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 5: very much injecting themselves into public debate when it suits them. 74 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 5: Malcolm Turnble would have been fully aware that Thursday, Australian 75 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 5: time is the start of these proposed tariffs from the 76 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 5: Trump administration which will capture Australian steel and aluminium. So 77 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 5: days out from that he goes on Bloomberg, which is 78 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 5: a very heavily watched, very reputable platform, and I think 79 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 5: he would have been over the moon that Donald Trump 80 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 5: has given him a shout out. If you're the abeneasy government, 81 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 5: not so great for them. But in what he said, 82 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 5: a lot of people around the world, outside of America 83 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 5: and outside of the marga hardcore people wouldn't disagree with 84 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 5: some of his observations, but he was being provocative. But 85 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 5: no doubt he will now use that for a long 86 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 5: period of time throughout this term as a guy that 87 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 5: can get under the skin of the US President. 88 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: Back in the wild early days of the first Trump presidency, 89 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: Malcolm Turnbull, as Prime Minister, got the President on the 90 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: phone and asked him to honor a deal made by 91 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: his predecessor to consider taking up to two thousand refugees 92 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: who'd come to Australia by boat. The transcript of that 93 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: January twenty seventeen corps was later obtained by The Washington 94 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: Post and published in full, and it reveals a quite 95 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: remarkable interplay between the two men. It starts with Trump 96 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: fuming about the deal. We've used voice actors and that 97 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: AI voice generator to bring some snippets of the conversation 98 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: to life. 99 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 3: It sends such a bad signal. You have no idea. 100 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 3: It is such a bad thing. 101 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: Can you hear me out, mister president? 102 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 6: Yeah, go ahead, Yes, the agreement does not require you 103 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 6: to take two thousand people. It does not require you 104 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 6: to take any It requires in return for us to 105 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 6: do a number of things for the United States. 106 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 2: This is a big deal. I think we should respect deals. 107 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: Who made the deal Obama, Yes, but let. 108 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 6: Me describe what it is. I think it is quite consistent. 109 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 6: I think you can comply with it. It is absolutely 110 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 6: consistent with your executive order. So please just hear me out. 111 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 3: Trump wants to know why haven't you let them out? 112 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: Why have you not let them into your society? 113 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 6: Okay, I will explain why. It is not because they 114 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 6: are bad people. It is because in order to stop 115 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 6: people smugglers, we had to deprive them of the product. 116 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 6: So we said, if you try to come to Australia 117 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 6: by boat, even if we I think you are the 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 6: best person in the world, even if you are a 119 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 6: Nobel Prize winning genius, we will not let you in 120 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 6: because the problem with the people. 121 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: That is a good idea. We should do that too. 122 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: You are worse than I am. 123 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: By the end of the call, Trump is agreeing, still reluctantly, 124 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: to stick with Obama's deal. 125 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: I am going to get killed on this thing. 126 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: You will not, Malcolm. 127 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: I have had it. I have been making these calls 128 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 3: all day and this is the most unpleasant call all day. 129 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: Putin was a pleasant call. This is ridiculous. 130 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: Thank you for your commitment. It is very important to us. 131 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: It is important to you, and it is embarrassing to me. 132 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: It is an embarrassment to me. But at least I 133 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 3: got you off the hook. So you put me back 134 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: on the hook. 135 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: You can count on me. I will be there again 136 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: and again, I hope. 137 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: So Okay, thank you, Malcolm. 138 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 5: I think this time around it's a different circumstance. Yes, 139 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 5: there was that famous conversation between Donald Trump and Malcolm 140 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 5: Turnbull just after Trump had come to the White House 141 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 5: and inherited the refugee deal swap that Barak Obama had 142 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 5: agreed to. But let's not be under the illusion that 143 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 5: Malcolm Turbul subsequent to that did not do what most 144 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 5: prime ministers do, and that is ingratiate themselves to Donald Trump. 145 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 5: That's typically the dynamic that occurs. And once he got 146 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 5: that exemption, then they talked up just how close they 147 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 5: were and how alike they were. And for Malcolm Turble 148 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 5: to now suggest that somehow he always took on the 149 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 5: big bully. You know, when you're in office and you're 150 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 5: in power, it's a very different scenario. The fact is 151 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 5: that Malcolm Turbull was a world leader in taking on China. 152 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 5: He banned Huawei, he introduced very tough foreign interference laws, 153 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 5: and he scrapped an extradition treaty with China, and that 154 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 5: really was the start of those deteriorating relations with Beijing. 155 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 5: And subsequent to that, all our five ICE partners, including 156 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 5: the US, then realized that imminent threat that China pose 157 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 5: on that front. You have to give Malcolm Turnble credit. Yes, 158 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 5: Peter Dutton and others were in key roles and some 159 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 5: security heads were really pushing that. But for the record, 160 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 5: it was under the Turnbull government. And then obviously the 161 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 5: remark that Donald Trump's saying that Australians booted Malcolm Turnbull 162 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 5: out of office. 163 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: So now are we back where we started with this 164 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: very hostile exchange. 165 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 5: Look in a way, it's often another realm. There was 166 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 5: a lot of pessimism in the Alberzi government ranks. So 167 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 5: we saw Penny Wong, Richard marleson, most recently Jim Chalmers 168 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 5: head to Washington to make the case. Kevin Rudd is 169 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 5: also hosted a couple of times the US Commerce Secretary 170 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 5: Howard Lutnik, who was an influential player in all this, 171 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 5: and on all occasions they've come away empty handed and 172 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 5: they've basically been told this is the US president's decision. 173 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 5: While steel and our uminium they're not really massive in 174 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 5: terms of our exports to the US, and Blue Scope, 175 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 5: who operate out of Kembler have got a lot of 176 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 5: big investments over there in the States. The government really 177 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 5: want to make clear that they are taking it seriously 178 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 5: and they're still hopeful. But there's other concerns in the 179 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 5: government post election that whether it's copper, pharmaceuticals, agriculture, that 180 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 5: this tariff war or this tariff imposition could broaden to 181 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 5: other areas that are much more important to our economy. 182 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 5: So if you mishandle it, or you go too far 183 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 5: and through a campaign, Donald Trump puts a social media 184 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 5: post out and says, I'm not so sure about UCUS. 185 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 5: It's got the potential if you mishandle it to escalate 186 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 5: very quickly. And we've seen this with other world leaders 187 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 5: that you've got to play the game with Trump. 188 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is the Australian's chief political correspondent. You can 189 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: follow developments live at the Australian dot com dot au