Speaker 1: I suggest you weren't very very helpful to the department
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: I was trying to be that was untrue, incorrect.
Speaker 1: In fact, you sent them on a wild goose chase
Speaker 1: trying to locate this Asian grocer correct or incorrect, incorrect.
Speaker 3: Accused mushroom cook killer Aaron Pattison face Crown Prosecutor Nannette
Speaker 3: Rodgers in the witness box again today. Virtually every claim
Speaker 3: that Aaron made about the mushrooms at the center of
Speaker 3: this case was put under the microscope, from her evidence
Speaker 3: that she was a forager, to a story about dried
Speaker 3: mushrooms from an Asian grocer, to the phone records that
Speaker 3: suggested she traveled to locations where death caps had been sighted.
Speaker 3: The exchanges between the two came in thick and fast,
Speaker 3: and will break them all down today. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig,
Speaker 3: and this is the mushroom cook. We've reached day thirty
Speaker 3: of Aaron Patterson's murder trial, and as always I'm joy
Speaker 3: by my colleague court reporter Laura Ploseller.
Speaker 4: Today almost feels like a milestone day thirty and it
Speaker 4: was also Erin's seventh day in the witness box, so
Speaker 4: She's had three days so far of evidence in chief
Speaker 4: and this was her fourth day of cross examination.
Speaker 3: As I mentioned in the intro, there was a lot
Speaker 3: of questions around mushrooms today, so let's get into it
Speaker 3: and start with the topic of foraging. The prosecution accused
Speaker 3: Erin of not having an interest in it.
Speaker 4: Erin denied that she lied about having an interest in foraging.
Speaker 4: To explain how wild mushrooms ended up in her beef
Speaker 4: Wellington meal last week, Erin told the jury that she
Speaker 4: started foraging for mushrooms around twenty twenty during the COVID lockdowns,
Speaker 4: and spoke about becoming more confident when foraging after doing
Speaker 4: some research and getting to a point where she felt
Speaker 4: like she could eat some of the mushrooms she had picked.
Speaker 4: But today doctor Rogers suggested that Erin did not have
Speaker 4: this interest in foraging, and brought her to the book
Speaker 4: located by police during the search at her house on
Speaker 4: August five and later cataloged. She said police found more
Speaker 4: than four hundred books, and Aaron agreed today that probably
Speaker 4: none of those books were on foraging. She did add, though,
Speaker 4: that at the time of the search she had hundreds
Speaker 4: more books in her garage that she was yet to
Speaker 4: unpack after moving.
Speaker 3: Doctor Rodgers then took Erin to the evidence of her children,
Speaker 3: who told investigators that they did not recall picking mushrooms
Speaker 3: with their mum.
Speaker 4: Erin was taken today to the pre recorded evidence of
Speaker 4: her children where they were asked these specific questions around foraging.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers then suggested to Erin that her children never
Speaker 4: knew her to pick wild mushrooms, but Erin disagreed. After that,
Speaker 4: doctor Rogers went on to say, this is a story
Speaker 4: you have made up for this jury. Agree or disagree.
Speaker 4: Erin disagreed with that statement.
Speaker 3: Moving on now, Doctor Rodgers suggested to Erin that she
Speaker 3: traveled to Locke on April twenty eight, eight, twenty twenty three,
Speaker 3: and lock An Outram on May twenty two, and this
Speaker 3: was to find deathcap mushrooms after they were cited on
Speaker 3: citizen website I naturalist.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers was relying on the evidence of digital forensics
Speaker 4: expert Dr Matthew Cerell to make these suggestions. Earlier in
Speaker 4: the trial, doctor Cerell told the court that he examined
Speaker 4: Erin's phone records and concluded that she made possible visits
Speaker 4: to these areas on those dates.
Speaker 3: Let's start with the possible visit to lock. On April
Speaker 3: twenty eight.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers suggested to Erin that she traveled to Locke
Speaker 4: from Lee and Gatha on this day after she saw
Speaker 4: an ironaturalist post by Christine McKenzie on April eighteen, ten
Speaker 4: days earlier that said there were deathcap mushrooms growing in
Speaker 4: a reserve in Locke. This was not the only suggestion
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers made to Erin. Here's their exchange today. It's
Speaker 4: their words, but not their voices.
Speaker 1: I suggest you drove to Locke from your house at
Speaker 1: Leongatha to specifically find death cap mushrooms on the twenty
Speaker 1: eighth of April. Disagree, and I suggest that you found
Speaker 1: some Agree or disagree? Disagree, And I suggest that within
Speaker 1: two hours of finding those death cap mushrooms you drove
Speaker 1: to the Hartley Wells Better Home Living in Leongatha and
Speaker 1: bought yourself a dehydrator at twelve seventeen PM.
Speaker 2: I did buy that that day, yes.
Speaker 1: And the purpose of buying the dehydrator was to dehydrate
Speaker 1: death cap mushrooms. Agree or disagree?
Speaker 2: Disagree.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers then suggested that on April thirty, two days
Speaker 4: after traveling to Locke that Erin practiced by dehydrating button
Speaker 4: mushrooms from Woolworth's. The jury was shown a photo extracted
Speaker 4: from Erin's tablet that showed button mushrooms on a dehydrated tray,
Speaker 4: before another photo was shown of yellow tinged mushrooms on
Speaker 4: a similar tray. Doctor Rogers claimed that rain was practicing
Speaker 4: so she would not waste the death caps she had
Speaker 4: just found, since she wanted to preserve them. She went
Speaker 4: on to suggest that the yellow tinged mushrooms were the
Speaker 4: death caps themselves, but Erin denied that she was practicing,
Speaker 4: saying she dehydrated the button mushrooms to simply eat them.
Speaker 4: Erin was then asked about another possible visit her phone
Speaker 4: made to lock on May twenty two. Doctor Rogers put
Speaker 4: to Erin that she went back to this reserve because
Speaker 4: she thought there might have been more deathcap mushrooms growing
Speaker 4: at the location that Miss Mackenzie had previously geotagged.
Speaker 3: Erin was then taken to doctor Sorel's evidence about another
Speaker 3: possible visit her phone made on May twenty two, but
Speaker 3: this time to Outram. This was one day after an
Speaker 3: i naturalist post by doctor Tom May, where he reported
Speaker 3: seeing death cap mushrooms growing in the area.
Speaker 1: I suggest that you traveled from lean Gather to Outrim
Speaker 1: on twenty sive second of May twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I suggest you went to Nielsen Street in Outram correct
Speaker 1: or incorrect incorrect. I suggest that you had read Dr
Speaker 1: Tom May's post dated twenty first of May twenty three
Speaker 1: of his sighting of deathcap mushrooms in Nielsen Street, Outram
Speaker 1: on the Eye Naturalist website. Agree or disagree?
Speaker 2: Disagree.
Speaker 1: I suggest that you went to Nielsen Street in Outrim
Speaker 1: looking for the death cap mushrooms as posted by Dr
Speaker 1: Tom May. Agree or disagree, disagree, and that's why your
Speaker 1: phone was I suggest stationary between approximately eleven twenty four
Speaker 1: am and eleven forty one am.
Speaker 2: Disagree.
Speaker 1: Do you agree that you had no legitimate reason to
Speaker 1: travel to Outram on twenty second of May twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: No, I don't agree with that.
Speaker 3: On another topic, let's talk about the Asian grosser. The
Speaker 3: jury has previously heard that Aaron told officials that she
Speaker 3: had used mushrooms from Wolworths and dried mushrooms from an
Speaker 3: Asian groser in the beef Wellington dish, but doctor Rodgers
Speaker 3: suggested to Erin that she never bought mushrooms from an
Speaker 3: Asian grocer in April twenty twenty three and did not
Speaker 3: use them in the mill. Aaron denied both of these claims.
Speaker 4: She spoke today about not having a distinct memory of
Speaker 4: the purchase, but remembered buying them in April around the
Speaker 4: school holidays. She then went on to say that she
Speaker 4: dehydrated these dried mushrooms at some stage because they appeared
Speaker 4: rubbery and she wanted to make them crispier.
Speaker 3: Doctor Rogers then suggested to Aarin that she was deliberately
Speaker 3: vague when she was asked by officials about the suburb
Speaker 3: of the Asian grocer. She said Aaron was familiar with
Speaker 3: Mount Waverley and the adjoining areas such as glem Waverley,
Speaker 3: Oakley and Clayton. This was because Aaron owned a property
Speaker 3: in Mount Waverley and previously worked for the Monash City Council.
Speaker 1: I suggest you're very familiar with Mount Waverley correct or incorrect,
Speaker 1: incorrec I suggest that you're also familiar with the adjoining areas,
Speaker 1: which include Glen Waverley, Oakley, and Clayton correct or incorrect.
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with them, yes.
Speaker 1: And yet you're unable to tell any person with any
Speaker 1: degree of certainty where it was that you purchased these
Speaker 1: dried mushrooms.
Speaker 2: That's correct.
Speaker 1: In fact, I suggest that you were deliberately vague about
Speaker 1: the suburb when you were asked about it. Correct or incorrect, incorrect.
Speaker 1: Your story kept changing, I suggest I don't think it did.
Speaker 1: Your description of the packaging kept changing. I suggest I
Speaker 1: don't think it did. And that's because the Asian grosser
Speaker 1: story was a deliberate lie. Correct incorrect.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers then took Erin to a record of interview
Speaker 4: where she told detectives that she had been very helpful
Speaker 4: during the Department of Health's investigation. But doctor Rogers suggested
Speaker 4: to Erin today that she had not been very helpful.
Speaker 4: Our listener's heard part of this exchange at the top
Speaker 4: of the episode, but here's more of what was said.
Speaker 1: In fact, you you sent them on a wild goose
Speaker 1: chase trying to locate this Asian grosser correct or incorrect, incorrect.
Speaker 1: Initially you were not very responsive to the Department of Health.
Speaker 1: I think that's been your evidence.
Speaker 2: No, it's not my evidence. The first time she rang me,
Speaker 2: I answered and spoke to her for fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: The first on first of August twenty twenty three at
Speaker 1: eight thirty three am.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: But then you didn't respond to some of the other
Speaker 1: texts correct.
Speaker 2: Correct. And I think we have established why that was already.
Speaker 1: And I suggest that the reason that you didn't answer
Speaker 1: some of those texts from her was because you didn't
Speaker 1: want to be pressed for details about the Asian grosers. Incorrect,
Speaker 1: because that story was not true.
Speaker 2: Incorrect.
Speaker 1: It was a lie that you used dried mushrooms from
Speaker 1: an Asian grosser correct or incorrect.
Speaker 2: Incorrect.
Speaker 1: You lied about the source of the death cat mushrooms
Speaker 1: because you knew you were guilty of having deliberately poisoned
Speaker 1: your four lunch guests.
Speaker 2: Incorrect.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's move on. Aaron was asked about the beef
Speaker 3: Wellington recipe she followed in a best selling recipe Tin
Speaker 3: Eats cookbook. The recipe called for seven hundred grams of
Speaker 3: sliced mushrooms.
Speaker 4: Erin was then taken to a Woolworth's transaction history that
Speaker 4: indicated that she bought a kilo of sliced mushrooms on
Speaker 4: July twenty three, and another seven hundred and fifty grams
Speaker 4: on July twenty seven, two days before the lunch. Erin
Speaker 4: disagreed that by July twenty nine she had all of
Speaker 4: these mushrooms still in her kitchen. She said only seven
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty grams remained. Doctor Rogers asked her where
Speaker 4: the other kilo of mushrooms went, and Erin replied, I
Speaker 4: ate them. She then suggested to Erin that she had
Speaker 4: no need to use any additional mushrooms outside those she
Speaker 4: had bought from Woolworths, considering she had more than the
Speaker 4: recipe required. But Erin last week told the court that
Speaker 4: she added the mushrooms into the paste that would be
Speaker 4: used to cover the meat because she said it tasted
Speaker 4: a little bland. She told the court that she grabbed
Speaker 4: the dried mushrooms from the Asian grosser from her pan
Speaker 4: that she had put in a container. She explained that
Speaker 4: she chopped them up and then sprinkled them over the
Speaker 4: mushroom paste. At the time, she said she only believed
Speaker 4: the dried mushrooms were in that container, But she told
Speaker 4: the jury last week that in the days after the lunch,
Speaker 4: she started to think there was a possibility there were
Speaker 4: foraged mushrooms in that container as well. Erin had previously
Speaker 4: described the dried mushrooms as pungent, but she disputed today
Speaker 4: that they were too overpowering for the beef wellington. She said,
Speaker 4: I thought it was the perfect dish for them.
Speaker 3: Doctor Rogers also took Erin to her testimony that her
Speaker 3: children ate leftovers of the beef wellington for dinner on
Speaker 3: July thirty, and this is the day after the lunch
Speaker 3: Aaron told the jury last week she prepared a six
Speaker 3: beef wellington, which she said she gave to her children
Speaker 3: after scraping off the mushrooms and pastry and leaving the steak.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers then suggested to Erin that she lied about
Speaker 4: her children eating the steak of the six beef wellington.
Speaker 1: I suggest that you told well over a dozen people,
Speaker 1: including your son and daughter, health professionals, child protection workers, police,
Speaker 1: and a friend, that you had fed your children the
Speaker 1: same meal that you had served at lunch on twenty
Speaker 1: ninth of July twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was pretty clear it was the meal minus
Speaker 2: the mushrooms and pastry, so not the same. But yes, But.
Speaker 1: Isn't it the fact that on Sunday, the thirtieth of
Speaker 1: July you found out at least Don and Gail were unwell.
Speaker 2: Yes, I did find out about that.
Speaker 1: So why did you proceed to feed the same meal
Speaker 1: to your children when you knew or suspected that the
Speaker 1: meal that you'd served had made them ill?
Speaker 2: I didn't. I don't know or suspect that.
Speaker 1: Your son gave evidence in his recorded interview that you
Speaker 1: told him that Gail and Don were not well. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that evidence?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: You told that to your son.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I did on Sunday night. I don't know
Speaker 2: when on the Sunday or I don't know when I
Speaker 2: told him that, but I did tell him.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers had more questions for or they accused about
Speaker 4: the leftovers.
Speaker 1: You repeatedly told police you had scraped the mushrooms off
Speaker 1: in an attempt to explain why the children were not sick.
Speaker 1: Agree or disagree.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've repeatedly told them, but I did
Speaker 2: tell them.
Speaker 1: You told a number of people you had scraped the
Speaker 1: mushrooms off, correct, correct, And I suggest that was an
Speaker 1: attempt to explain why your children were not sick. No,
Speaker 1: you told the lie about feeding leftovers from the beef
Speaker 1: Wellington to your children. I suggest because it gave you
Speaker 1: some distance from a deliberate poisoning.
Speaker 2: I don't see how it could, but I disagree anyway.
Speaker 3: Finally, the topic moved away from mushrooms and to the
Speaker 3: issue of Erin's gastric bypass surgery. What did the jury
Speaker 3: hear about that today?
Speaker 4: Laura Erin previously testified that she had a pre surgery
Speaker 4: appointment at the Enridge Clinic in Melbourne on September thirteen,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, but yesterday the jury heard that the
Speaker 4: clinic specializes in cosmetic dermatology and doesn't offer gastric bypass surge.
Speaker 4: Doctor Rogers peppered Errand with questions after she was provided
Speaker 4: with a record from the clinic.
Speaker 1: Firstly, do you accept that the Enriched Clinic does not offer,
Speaker 1: and has never offered, gastric bypass surgery?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Secondly, do you accept that the Enriched Clinic does not offer,
Speaker 1: and has never offered pre surgery assessments relating to gastric
Speaker 1: bypass surgery?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: And Thirdly, do you accept that the Enriched Clinic only
Speaker 1: conducts examinations and procedures relating to the skin and its
Speaker 1: appendages such as hair and nails.
Speaker 3: I do to finish off, It's safe to say the
Speaker 3: jury got their steps in today, didn't they, Laura.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they really did. This afternoon when doctor Rogers was
Speaker 4: continuing her cross examination, there were certain questions that got
Speaker 4: asked that led to objections by defense barrister mister Mandy.
Speaker 4: The jury have become accustomed to this idea of once
Speaker 4: an objection is raised, there might need to be a
Speaker 4: discussion in their absence between the parties and Justice Christopher Beale,
Speaker 4: and that happened quite a few times today. So they
Speaker 4: were in and out of the courtroom a few times,
Speaker 4: and I think on one occasion they'd only been in
Speaker 4: their seats for about a minute or two before they
Speaker 4: were asked to leave again, which did prompt some laughs
Speaker 4: from the courtroom.
Speaker 3: Yes it did. And Aaron will be back in the
Speaker 3: witness box tomorrow, so stay tuned for our episode then,
Speaker 3: but for now, go to the mushroomcook dot com dot
Speaker 3: au to stay updated on the case.