WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 6 January 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.080 Welcome to the Late Debates. 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.760 Good evening and welcome to the Late Debate. I'm Caroline Marcus, 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.760 joined tonight by Sky News contributors Kel. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.560 Richards and James Boltz. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:20.279 Let's start now tonight with yet another shocking attack on 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.680 Sydney's Jewish community. After a car in Queen's Park in 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:28.040 the city's east was found spray painted this morning with 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:32.000 the words f the Jews, residents and the heavily Jewish 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:33.960 suburb were left shaken. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:36.320 Do you mind if I ask you why you were 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:37.239 so upset about it? 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.280 Because my father was killed in the holocause. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:45.400 This is how it's still. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.760 I heard it was racial slurst, but I didn't. I 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.280 thought it would be anti Israel. 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.280 Didn't think it to be anticipate. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:58.480 And that's kind of the whole point, isn't it. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.200 With each one of these attacks, acts on cars, on buildings, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:07.399 on a firebombed synagogue, the mask about these protests being 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.720 motivated by anger at Israel's slips even further revealing this 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.960 simmering due hatred underneath. The Executive Council of Australian Jury 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.319 co CEO Alex Ripchen tweeted, no one just vandalizes a 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.080 car with a racist slogan. It is the product of 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.560 endless incitement, demonization, and a belief that such attitudes are 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:33.240 freely permitted, even celebrated. He's certainly not the only Jewish 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.080 community leader to make that point, certainly not the only 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.920 person on Star newsed to make that point. The government 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.399 has a lot to answer for, doesn't it, In how 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.200 it's emboldened these activists. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.640 They haven't acted quickly. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.440 Well, I haven't acted very much at all, but fourteen 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.320 months ago when this began on the ninth of October 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.480 twenty twenty three. Getting on for fifteen months ago. They 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.560 could have acted then and done something. Janet Alberton had 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.720 a brilliant article in The Stradian over the holiday break 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:03.880 in which he said the way to act would have 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.680 been to change the incitement of violence laws. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.000 Slightly, not a great deal. 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.480 There's a funny defense in the incitement for a to 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.680 violence laws. There's one in which genuine belief is a defense. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.399 He said, that's silly. Knocked that out and specify anti semitism. 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.320 That's if you look at that expression on the side 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.280 of the car, it is an incitement to violence. It said, 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:31.200 be nasty to these people. So legally he could Albanezy 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.480 as our Prime minister, could have called the parliament back 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.840 by the tenth of October. He could have put up 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.560 changes along these lines. He could have condemned in the 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:43.400 parliament anti Semitism in general. Had people say to me, oh, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.600 you know, it's the most ancient hatred of all and 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.720 it is as if that justifies our government today not 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.160 doing anything. They can do something. Australia used not to 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.760 be like this, so we don't need to be like this. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.440 We're a tolerant, easy going society. This has been imported. 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:01.880 We have to say to the people who brought it here. 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.799 This is not Australia. This is not how we live, 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.239 This is not how we treat each other. 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.360 James couldn't agree more with Kel and I've heard the 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.840 Prime Minister himself make that point too. You know that 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.440 this is an ancient hatred, as if that somehow justifies 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.480 it or puts it in any kind of context. But 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.799 this really reveals that these sorts of actions, they're not 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.520 about legitimate. 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.600 Criticized criticism of Israel. It's anti Semitism. It's Jew hatred, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:28.320 pure and simple. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.239 Well, yes, I mean that is not saying Israel or 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.040 Benjamin Nanya who had said Jews. But I do have 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:35.920 to say this is an ancient hatred and in no 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.440 way does that give any context or leeway to the 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.200 people that are committing these crimes. But I think it's 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.200 true to both say the labor has been absolutely terrible 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.480 in handling the anti Semitism issue over the last year 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.800 and a half and also that there's very little they 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.760 can do. I mean, I remember the will Hire incident. 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.440 Descend to the last year where someone spray painted kill 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.160 Israel on the wall. They misspell at Israel. This is 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.720 not like a very intellectual or thoughtful kind of people 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.200 that are doing There's not people that are up to 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:04.760 date with Penny Wong statements. 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:05.000 To the UN. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.440 So I just think like, yes, labors should be cracking down, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.800 they should be looking at the laws that are people 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.040 are taking advantage of to do these crimes. But at 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.560 the same time, this is an ancient hatred and we 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.480 do need to really think about what is Australia doing 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.720 to these people from communities that come to Australia. What 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.160 are we teaching about the Australian dream that makes them 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.240 think that the pool of the old country is stronger 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.000 than the pool of the new country. I mean, this 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.760 is a country that values peace, values MAJA, but has 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.480 done for our years now. For some people that are 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.800 coming here, they don't see that. They don't feel the 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.480 same pride in Australia that you and I do, and 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.560 so they go back to the hatreds of the old 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.720 world and they bring that here. So what can we 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.920 do about Australia. What can we sell about the Western 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.839 dream that is going to start winning hearts and minds. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.760 Well, it's often second and third generation, it's not always 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.240 the first generation people who've come here that commit these 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.360 sorts of crimes. We don't know in this case who 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:05.280 sprayed this anti Semitic slogan on the car yet kel. 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.520 But I have to disagree with James because I think 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.760 there is so much more the government could do. For one, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:15.160 take action against the people who commit the crimes, who 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:16.800 commit incitement to violence. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.480 I'm talking about the hate preachers. I'm talking about the. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:23.440 People who preached that kind of hate on the steps 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.440 of the Opera House on October nine, and we were quibbling, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.080 the police were quibbling about exactly what was being said. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:35.080 But how many people have been arrested. None, not one 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.880 that was horrific, that was hateful. And remember the Imam 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:40.520 who was out in the street saying, it's a day 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:41.640 of pride, it's a day. 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.360 Of joy that we know who he is. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.240 So he's not a faithless person, he's not an unknown person. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:52.120 There's no reason why he cannot be arrested. We don't 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.320 need to change a lot of laws. We need to 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.039 start using the laws we've got. We need to sharpen 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.560 the laws we've got, and we need to start making 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.440 arrest The idea that this goes on and on and 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.120 we can't find anyone and we can't arrist anyone, so 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.960 it just has to happen. The people who this is. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:09.520 Not Australia, this is foreign. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.400 This is people who've come from elsewhere, as James said, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.159 and they've imported their hatreds with them. They need to 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.880 be told you import your hatreds, you get locked up. 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.240 Well, there are some people on the far life two 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.880 are Australian who also hate the West and they hate Israel, 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.920 and they put the two, they lump the two together 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.320 because it's Western freedoms, it's colonization and the rest of 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.200 the rubbish and they hate, they hate Israel too, and 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:40.120 they sometimes verge, well, they often verge on the border 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.479 of jew hatred too. I've seen it from progressive university 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.120 academics online who've made horrific. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:49.600 Threats against the Jewish community as well. 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.160 So it's not always coming from other cultures. 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.880 And what I would say is not that we should 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.640 just go, oh well, throw our hands up, like we 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:57.760 can't do anything to stop this. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.360 Obviously there are hate breaches out there. 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.560 Obviously they are stepping over the line of what is 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.360 acceptable speech. But I just wonder if you do arrest them, 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.479 the followers of these hate preachers going to go, oh, well, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.200 he must have been wrong. Or are they going to go, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.720 that's that global Jewish conspiracy coming again to take my preacher. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:17.000 But they're going to blame the global Jewish conspiracy either way. 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.320 So I think this is a multi generational thing of 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.920 reclaiming hearts and minds and going Okay, there is something 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.600 about the West that does make it different. There is 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:27.000 something about individual freedom, religious tolerance and peace among people 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.240 that we can sell to people, and I think that 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:34.280 is I mean, eventually the complete rise of anti Semitism 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:38.080 will start to go down to what is unfortunately usual levels. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.640 But the idea has to still be that we need 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.880 to keep preaching that same tolerance, We need to keep 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.560 preaching that same hope for peace for future generations. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.960 I don't know. The history has shown that if it 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.120 isn't curved, if it isn't stopped, then kell it does 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.960 lead to horrific things like the Holocaust. We know that 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:57.080 it only happened a few. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.800 Generations, and we saw the biggest number of Jews since 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.800 the Holocaust killed on the seventh of October two hundred people, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.680 two hundred and fifty captured babies, butchered. We know how 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.960 horrible it is, so we know what comes if you 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.240 don't stop it. And James is perfectly right. We do 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.040 need to work at the causes, and we do need 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.200 to do as much prevention as we can, but you 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:20.680 don't hold back from arresting people and charging people and 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:25.200 jailing people for vile things. I mean, on a talkback 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.960 program once on radio, a chap who'd lived in Germany said, 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.080 he said, in Germany, calder I don't use the word 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.320 aud his epotism. They use the German expression for due hatred, 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.960 because you've got to be honest about it. You've got 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.400 to be honest and say this is racial and religious 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.920 hatred combined and it kills people. It is that dangerous. 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.480 So you don't just stand there and say, well, we'll 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.439 fix the next generation. You've got to say we're going 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.920 to lock up the people who will incite to violence. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.040 And you know what, at least there was some honesty 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.880 about the f the Jews graffiti today because they didn't 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.640 hide behind code words Zionist and Zionism. 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.400 At least they were honest about their do hate to it. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.360 That's all I can say about that. Look, it all. 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:09.360 Comes as the Ice Hockey World Championships were canned in 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.720 Victoria over fears that Israel's presence there would make the 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.040 event too dangerous for players and fans. That Victoria Police 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.200 have confirmed that they provided feedback to organizers about the 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.760 risk of a security incident at the event, but they 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.960 say it was up to Ice Hockey Australia whether to cancel. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:30.680 James. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:35.880 Here we go again pandering to this extremist element in society, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:41.560 which if there's even a threat hanging over a sporting event, 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.360 we can't possibly let it continue and put more security on. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.520 We just need to get rid of the whole thing. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.080 It reminds me of the Maya Christmas windows. As soon 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.240 as there was a threat from activists that they were 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:53.720 going to target it. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:53.720 It's off. 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:54.160 Yeah. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.839 I noticed the Ice Hockey Australia president, in comments to 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.199 The Australia Today said that the decision was not politically motivated, 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.319 but it was because of safety. 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.040 And security of participants can't be assured. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:05.600 So they always say that. 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.400 I know, but unfortunately you're going to have to stop 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.240 believing in political issues because you're in one. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:10.600 But the other angle there. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.720 I mean, obviously there's the anti semitisis an angle, and 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.920 obviously it's the fact that Israel's participating which is causing this. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.679 But the other angle as well, which makes it interesting 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.160 for Victoria is that this is not a state that 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.559 really cracks down on intimidating protests. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:25.839 We saw the weapons Expo. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.160 So both if Victoria has an anti Semitism problem they 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:33.079 need to address and also a failure to correctly police 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:34.320 intimidating protests. 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:39.040 Jane Kel I think the more you capitulate to these people, 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.880 the people who threaten these events, the protesters, the more 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.840 they're going to make those threats because it's like trying 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.280 to negotiate with a terrorist. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.480 Well, what's happened in this case is terror has won. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.920 We've got to recognize this is a win for terrorism. 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.840 The terrorisms are the champions. We are now the dummies. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:10:59.839 Let me give you. 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.720 A parallel, which is a bit strange, I accept, But 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.440 in New Orleans we had a terrorist inspired by Islamic 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.200 State who killed fourteen people. Now that was a fairly 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.640 big deal for the Americans. Coming up is Trump's inauguration. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.560 Now you would think, big public event. This has got 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:19.760 to be perfect for someone who believes that sort of stuff. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.400 Let's cancel the inauguration. Let's move it indoors to somewhere 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.720 that can be protected by the National Guard. They're not 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.480 doing that. They're not going to do that. You don't 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.640 give in to terror, you don't let the terrorists win. 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.480 And that's so true about Trump because after that first 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:38.080 assassination attempt on him at the rally, he refused. I mean, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.600 I think he did one indoor event after that where 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.760 he was sort of hidden away, But after that he 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.160 refused to give in, and he continued to do his 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.600 outdoor events because he didn't want these people to win. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.840 And I think that's how we enter approach it. Look 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:56.520 mentioning that horrific attack in the Uskel, a Muslim leader 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.720 here in Australia has warned that it takes just one 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:04.000 low wolf who's radicalized online to commit that kind of 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.760 deadly attack that we saw in New Orleans on Newsday, 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.679 an attack that killed fourteen people. Now this leader is 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:15.640 Jamal Riffi. He's been a long time moderate Muslim voice 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:20.360 in the community talking about radicalization. A very welcome moderate voice, 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.480 I have to say, a fairly uncommon one. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:24.319 Unfortunately. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.320 He says Muslim Australians are increasingly on highlight for similar 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.960 ISIS style attacks here, and the fear is that the 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.559 terror group Islamic State is on the brink of unleashing 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.840 a second wave of global carnage. But doctor Riffi also 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.120 said James that their influence has very much waned. But 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.960 I wouldn't be surprised if they find the position that 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:50.599 the West has taken to what Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanya, 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.479 who is doing in Gaza to actually affect some people. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.000 To do the wrong things. Now, I think it's. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.440 Great he's speaking up for this, but I still see 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.880 this element of victim blaming coming even from moderate voices. 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.160 Yeah, well, it hrks back to what I said in 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.040 the first topic. You can say that the West needs 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.440 to do X and why about Israel, and it's the 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.560 actions of the West that are fueling this. But we 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.920 have to remember that these kids that are getting radicalized 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:19.680 don't feel themselves to be members of the West. What 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.680 do they care what the West is responding to Israel. 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.719 They feel themselves to be of the East. So what 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.160 we and I'm repeating myself here, but what we have 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.480 to do is think about how why are these extremist 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.400 ideologies so enticing for young minds? What is it about 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.080 the kids and what is it about the ideology themselves 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.200 that is attracting people. I mean, we've all been exposed 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.320 to extremist ideologies. It didn't take for us because we're happy, healthy, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.880 normal adults. But what's happening to these kids? Why are 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.200 they getting sucked in? And how can we reclaim them 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:47.680 back to normal society? 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.640 Kel I mean, terrorism is not a new thing. Radicalization 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.360 is not a new thing, certainly, but there is an 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:55.839 issue with what's happening. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.440 Online and how easy it is. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:02.920 I guess to influence these young minds and these people 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.439 I guess who, perhaps young people who confused, who haven't. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.800 Found how they belong. But what is the answer here 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.560 when any one person can be affected? 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:14.719 Oh look, if I had the answer, I would tell you. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.480 The answer is obviously not easy. Two quick points. The 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.480 first is doctor Rufe's correct. The lone wolf attacks are 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.440 the ones they can't find. When there's a cell this communication, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.320 there are texts, even coded texts, and we've got intelligence 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.600 services that can pick those up. But when it's someone 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.880 like the American acting alone, it's really hard to detect 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.480 them ahead of time. And James is right, why does 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.520 it happen. It happens because they lose the balance of 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.520 their mind. They're not entirely sensible, they're not entirely sane. 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.680 And if you've got someone who's got that kind of problem, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.760 they are the ones who will listen to this kind 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.520 of prompting from Islamic State or from al Qaeda, or 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.640 from somewhere else, and they may well act. The second 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.480 point I need to make is we have to be 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.920 careful about Islam. A friend of mine who's an ex 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.640 spurret on Islam, said, don't make assumptions about Muslims, just 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.880 because doctor Reef is a really good example of the 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.400 fact that you don't make sweeping assumptions about Muslims. You're 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.720 going to meet Muslims, shop, believe one thing or another thing, 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.880 talk to someone, get to know them, make friends with them. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.920 Don't just make assumptions ahead of time and build the 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:24.360 wall because of a handful of really horrible, screaming pro 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.520 Palestinians in the street. They are not the Muslim community 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.040 doctor Reefy represents. I think, I think quite a big 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.840 slice of the Muslim community, and we have to be 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.080 we have to be careful about making assumptions. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.080 Yeah, we absolute shudn't make sweeping generalizations, but I think 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.160 there are far too many radical members of the community 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.640 as well. That seems to be the problem. Clearly, if 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.320 these Islamic hate preachers like the one you mentioned, cal 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.640 can go on the streets and talk about a day 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.440 of pride, a day of victory. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.960 And have a chance cheered by them, Yes. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:57.560 That's too many. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.000 Look, let's move on and go to the UK now 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.160 where there is trouble in Paradise. Just as the right 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.560 wing Reform UK was celebrating a huge membership surge and 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.600 the support of billionaire and Donald Trump right hand man 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:13.440 Elon Musk. 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:15.880 Musk has used his own. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.800 Platform X to announce he's withdrawing his support for the 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:24.080 party's leader, Nigel Farage. He said the Reform Party needs 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.080 a new leader. Farrage doesn't have what it takes out 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.120 and they seem so close in this happy snap from 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:36.360 Trump's Mari Lago resort alongside Reform treasurer British billionaire Nick Candy. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.400 A few weeks ago now James. 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.960 The cracks started to form after Musk launched a series 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:46.160 of social media attacks on British PM Secure Starmer, accusing 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.400 him of failing to bring these grooming gangs under control 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.840 and to prosecute them while he was the Director of 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:54.960 Public Prosecutions. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.920 This has been a huge story again in the UK. 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.040 I know that the show covered it quite a bit 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.720 last week while kel was hosting, but. 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.679 This fallout has really been about. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.720 This central figure, Tommy Robinson, and a difference of opinion 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.920 I guess between Elon Musk, who wants to see Tommy 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.320 embraced by the Reform UK Party and Nigro Feraj, who 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:20.320 doesn't want a bar of him. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.800 Yeah, I'd say it's interesting that Elon Misk is both 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.480 completely transparent and also it's quite hard to figure out 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.399 what he actually wants. So I think when he tweets 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.879 out that we need Tommy Robson as a head of 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.679 Reform UK, I think he's doing it for three possible reasons. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.919 And it's all got the backdrop for me of the 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.639 fact that Elon Musk is mulling up a donation of 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.520 nearly one hundred million dollars the rumored to be one 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.159 hundred million US dollars to the Reform UK party. So 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.240 why would he want to change your leadership either One, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.200 he genuinely wants Tommy Robinson. 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.000 In charge too. He says it's leverage over policies. 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.000 Okay, I'll back down on Tommy Robinson, but I want 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:55.760 you guys to start focusing on X, Y and Z 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:56.520 or no money. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:57.120 Or three. 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.680 He would feel that Nigel Faraj and Reform are acting 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.760 like the check's already cleared and he wants to put 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.280 them back in their box. 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.560 But here's what I would say to me on Maskin. 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:07.600 Who knows if he's ever going to watch this, But 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.919 here's what I'd say to you, which is what do 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.160 you actually want out of this? Because if you want 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.680 a new political party to be in charge of the country, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.000 don't deal it with Tommy Robinson. Keep Nigel faraj So 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.920 the political poll of polls currently has Labour at twenty 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.480 seven percent, the Conservative Party of twenty five percent, Nigel 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.200 Farraj's Reform Party at twenty two percent. So Faraje could 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.120 very realistically be the next opposition leader of the UK. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.800 He's even got an outside chance of being Prime minister. 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.239 So to replace him, Tommy Robinson is throwing over a 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.120 successful candidate, So someone who let's go through the wrap 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.040 scene and if you don't know who Tommy Robinson is, 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.879 I really I'm so envious of you. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.679 But I now have to break the illusion. So this 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:47.160 is a guy. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.240 He's currently in jail for contemptive court right, and people 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.600 can go, oh, you know, they always take the ones 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:54.199 who speak up. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.280 They're always trying to find he's also in his past. 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.600 Two thousand and five, he spent twelve months for bodily 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.080 harm after a violent assault of an off duty police officer. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.360 Twenty thirteen, ten months for trying. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.480 To get into the US using someone else's passport in 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.280 twenty fourteen eighteen months for mortgage. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.880 For this guy is a loser, he's im bored, and 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.200 he's violent. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.120 And he's certainly not the artwer in. 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.560 This case, Kel he didn't. Just to clear it up, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.280 the grooming Gambs were in case anyone has doesn't know 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.960 the story, were and Ah these gangs of mainly Pakistani 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:33.320 dissent adult men who prayed on working class, poor white girls. 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.960 And they were girls, they were children in the UK 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.000 in poor suburbs, and the authorities largely turned a blind 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.240 eye because of racial politics and it didn't suit their agenda. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.959