Speaker 1: I'm going to a team might come to another installment
Speaker 1: to show Bobby get.
Speaker 2: A chance, Doctor hopes.
Speaker 1: I'm not doctor Harps. In fact, you and I had
Speaker 1: to just who knows, who knows when or if? Well,
Speaker 1: let's hope it's more when than if. But we're sliding
Speaker 1: slowly towards home base. But yes, we just had to
Speaker 1: delay the start of the show because I had my
Speaker 1: senior supervisor, who when you're doing a PhD, your senior
Speaker 1: supervisor is pretty much god. So when he or she
Speaker 1: sends you a message, you reply to the message. When
Speaker 1: he or she wrings, you answer the call. When he
Speaker 1: or she wants a meeting. And people are probably amused
Speaker 1: to think that I'm scared of someone, I'm fucking scared.
Speaker 1: Going about that I'm scared. It's because they hold in
Speaker 1: a way, they hold your academic future in their hand,
Speaker 1: and you think you're in charge. You're not really in charge.
Speaker 1: You're just almost a passenger in your own project. But
Speaker 1: nonetheless it's good. So I resolved that I spoke with them,
Speaker 1: and here I am.
Speaker 2: Back talking to you, which I'm grateful for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you ever get I mean, you are the
Speaker 1: most educated and I don't even like the term non academic,
Speaker 1: but technically but you've you have. And this is not
Speaker 1: me trying to make you feel good or pump you
Speaker 1: up in front of people, but like it. I've literally
Speaker 1: been at UNI now combined about ten years, and you've
Speaker 1: read vastly more quantities of papers and research than I have,
Speaker 1: did you? And you're always reading research And even if
Speaker 1: I mentioned something, there's a fair chance you've read the
Speaker 1: paper or you know the authors, or you know the
Speaker 1: studies or you know the research is there. Did you
Speaker 1: get to a point in time where you when I
Speaker 1: don't need to and not that you do need to,
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't have any interest in doing
Speaker 1: a tigree or got in university or college as you
Speaker 1: signed the sites, because I can just read everything that's
Speaker 1: relevant to me and it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 2: Well, I never I never wanted to read and study
Speaker 2: so that I can write. It's like not in order
Speaker 2: to It was first own sake. So where I started
Speaker 2: diving into learning is I think the first the first
Speaker 2: job I had that really changed the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 2: Like when you're a kid, you do a ton of
Speaker 2: odd jobs and you know it's not necessarily building a path.
Speaker 2: When I was eighteen, I went to work at Gold Gym,
Speaker 2: and you know, I've talked about you know, Mitch Pacifico
Speaker 2: a lot of times. He's he was a majority owner
Speaker 2: of that gym, and the relationship I formed with him
Speaker 2: was in every way transformative. And I remember being frustrated
Speaker 2: because I felt like I was dumber than everybody else.
Speaker 2: I couldn't sell like the salespeople did. I didn't understand
Speaker 2: what the trainers were talking about. And there I was,
Speaker 2: and I was in college, right. It wasn't an uniqu
Speaker 2: it was literally a college, smaller school, and I couldn't
Speaker 2: find a direct application for what I was learning. And
Speaker 2: I was living on my own at eighteen, which I
Speaker 2: had to, and it was just a matter of if
Speaker 2: I don't start learning how to improve, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to have a job. And living alone at eighteen that's
Speaker 2: kind of like expensive, and that was a little bit scary.
Speaker 2: I can't go back home, so let me try to
Speaker 2: read on my own. Because I noticed that people around
Speaker 2: me were reading mostly mostly self help. That's where it started.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh wow, I could get these ideas
Speaker 2: and the same day I can go into work I
Speaker 2: can listen to it in the morning, or read this
Speaker 2: book in the morning. Let me see what works. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: that worked or that didn't work. Most of the time,
Speaker 2: I wonder if if it's the information that's not applicable,
Speaker 2: it's probably the way I'm applying it. So let me
Speaker 2: test other stuff, let me EXPERI meant, and that became
Speaker 2: enthralling for me to test something, see what happens, change
Speaker 2: your result, and eventually discover things that work that could
Speaker 2: be duplicated. So I kind of learned for its own sake.
Speaker 2: And a lot of times I'll pick up a book
Speaker 2: simply because I'm interested in it. It's not necessarily connected
Speaker 2: to anything I need to do at the moment, if
Speaker 2: that makes any sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I feel like, also rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly,
Speaker 1: that academia and academic qualifications, while definitely not bad, definitely,
Speaker 1: you know, they can be very valuable and very advantageous
Speaker 1: and of course in fields like medicine, etc. You know, necessary,
Speaker 1: but I think they have like a social currency that
Speaker 1: is probably inflated in terms of practical real world use.
Speaker 1: And then people who are just like if I think
Speaker 1: of all the smartest people that I personally, you know,
Speaker 1: in my judgment and the people to me that are
Speaker 1: just in all ways, you know, or in most ways
Speaker 1: they have a kind of a functional, practical real world
Speaker 1: as well as sometimes scientific or whatever, but like a
Speaker 1: kind of an intelligence that's very very user friendly and
Speaker 1: very helpful day to day. And you know, so like
Speaker 1: if I'm thinking about who do I want to talk
Speaker 1: about this with, like you're always in the top few
Speaker 1: on my list? Do you think that? Do you think, oh,
Speaker 1: you're welcome, it's absolutely true. Do you think that in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five it's a disadvantage to not get a
Speaker 1: degree or to not go to university or college. Do
Speaker 1: you think it's because I feel like it's becoming less
Speaker 1: and less relevant and important, especially a way that business
Speaker 1: and career is and stiles and services and products are evolving.
Speaker 2: You know, I think both of them have advantages. I
Speaker 2: think it's a tough call to say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's worthless to get a degree. I've heard that before.
Speaker 2: It's like really, and then you know I've heard like, okay,
Speaker 2: if you don't have a degree, it says a lot
Speaker 2: about your lack of discipline, follow through, and you're just
Speaker 2: not very educated, and it's like, well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Here in the States, you know billionaires. I made a
Speaker 2: habit of going to and dropping out of Harvard. It
Speaker 2: almost seems to be the path to like massive success.
Speaker 2: So that can't be at one hundred percent true either.
Speaker 2: I think it comes down to one what is it
Speaker 2: that you want to do? Like, if you want to
Speaker 2: be an entrepreneur, do you absolutely need a degree? I
Speaker 2: mean a degree can A degree can help you. Someone's
Speaker 2: popping into my head and he's in there quite a
Speaker 2: bit because he's he's a fantastic storyteller. I used to
Speaker 2: work with this guy, Frank and and he was the
Speaker 2: president of a company that I was part of the
Speaker 2: senior leadership team with. Actually that happened twice working with
Speaker 2: Frank And. Frank was an attorney and has his NBA,
Speaker 2: and he insisted that if you want to succeed as
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, never go out and get your NBA. He
Speaker 2: had one, but he was like, don't go out and
Speaker 2: do that. I think everything has something to offer you
Speaker 2: if you're willing to pull the most out of it.
Speaker 2: You know, why why is it you want?
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 2: Is it because everybody else has this, and I think
Speaker 2: I should have this Probably not the best reason, or
Speaker 2: there's a deeply rooted thing I want to do. You know,
Speaker 2: I want to be I want to be a neurosurgeon. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, school is probably a good pathway. Trial and
Speaker 2: error is going to land you in prison for a
Speaker 2: very very long time, you know, if you're going to
Speaker 2: go out and start it. Like me, I just wanted.
Speaker 2: I had this entrepreneurial spirit for like a minute when
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties. I just wanted to learn
Speaker 2: as much as I could and apply as much as
Speaker 2: I could, keep at work, throw away what didn't. I
Speaker 2: didn't have time to follow a curriculum, and I'm someone
Speaker 2: who enjoys having a curriculum laid out for me. So
Speaker 2: I think it's like, what type of learner are you?
Speaker 2: Because learning the way College of structured didn't match my
Speaker 2: learning style at all. So that was a struggle. I thought.
Speaker 2: I actually believed that I was incapable of learning like
Speaker 2: everyone else until I got out and I started learning
Speaker 2: my own. I started learning about my own learning style.
Speaker 2: So I think it's like, how do you learn what
Speaker 2: it is that you what do you want? And what
Speaker 2: are you willing to implement an extract from it. I
Speaker 2: think this is some important questions anyone should ask before
Speaker 2: you know, pursuing anything.
Speaker 1: Really Yeah, And I think you make a great point,
Speaker 1: and that is I think we need to learn how
Speaker 1: we learn optimize. When I did my when I went
Speaker 1: to Unique for the first time, and I think first semester,
Speaker 1: first year or maybe second semester, we were doing basically anatomy.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like all the muscles of the body,
Speaker 1: you know, but where everything originates and inserts and actions,
Speaker 1: like really quite basic stuff. But you know, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, I've got to you know, know the five
Speaker 1: adductors of the fema and where they originate and inserting
Speaker 1: for you know, whatever muscles of the quad or barber,
Speaker 1: all of these things that I kind of knew, but
Speaker 1: then and then you know all of the like the
Speaker 1: smaller muscles that oh yeah, the rotator cuff here, but
Speaker 1: what are the two internal and external rotators? And you've
Speaker 1: got to remember everything, right, So and I remember just
Speaker 1: reading and reading and going and I was at this
Speaker 1: stage thirty six and reading and reading and like it's
Speaker 1: and I'm reading something and I'm thinking about a Hamburger
Speaker 1: like or whatever, like it's not and I'm like, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how much I read this. Within three four
Speaker 1: five lines, I am distracted and I'm sitting in a
Speaker 1: room with a book. And so I had to figure
Speaker 1: out that. And I've told this once or twice before,
Speaker 1: but what worked in that instance for me with anatomy
Speaker 1: and then functional anatomy and then physiology and all of
Speaker 1: the stuff that I eventually did was Okay, so get
Speaker 1: out of the big fat book, get a highlighter, get
Speaker 1: a pen, and then write on your book and then
Speaker 1: write on the line the ship that you know that
Speaker 1: you need to know. Highlight the ship that you know
Speaker 1: you need to know. And then I had basically what
Speaker 1: I think was a not a tape but a digital
Speaker 1: an early incarnation of a digital recorder all the luck
Speaker 1: and I would, you know, there's maybe twenty pages that
Speaker 1: I had to kind of know, and then that would
Speaker 1: be distilled into a couple of pages of must know
Speaker 1: and then I would record all of that into audio
Speaker 1: and I would go the four muscles of the quad
Speaker 1: are they you know? In certain to tell a ten?
Speaker 1: And then the tibal tuberosity and the fucking whatever, right,
Speaker 1: and then I'd record all of that and then listen
Speaker 1: to it repeatedly, And that was how it got into
Speaker 1: my brain. But me trying to learn by looking at
Speaker 1: a book, reading stuff and then remembering the stuff. Even now,
Speaker 1: that doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for me.
Speaker 1: It's like very very suboptimal. So I think the idea
Speaker 1: of learning how you best learn a little bit of
Speaker 1: trial and error is paramount for anyone who wants to
Speaker 1: do any kind of whether it's personal or professional development
Speaker 1: or academic endeavor. But it's figuring out how you best
Speaker 1: work in that space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and leaning in towards that century modality but not
Speaker 2: utilizing it exclusively for me would helped me. And this
Speaker 2: was just, you know, serendipitous. It wasn't strategic on my part.
Speaker 2: Is when I was reading something, I wanted to know,
Speaker 2: how does this help me today? So there was a
Speaker 2: very narrow gap between learning theory and learning and now
Speaker 2: to me and procedural learning. So I would take a
Speaker 2: book out onto the floor and say, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: work out right now what am I working?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Why am I choosing one path of motion versus another?
Speaker 2: Like okay, well, what's a bench press. Good for I
Speaker 2: don't know who are you and what is your goal?
Speaker 2: What are you trying to achieve? And what does the
Speaker 2: anatomy say?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 2: Am I going to move more in the sadgittal plane?
Speaker 2: That would be like with my elbows into my body
Speaker 2: moving forward and back? Am I going to have my
Speaker 2: elbows a little bit higher? So horizontal adduction? Well, how
Speaker 2: am I making those choices? Well, the anatomy is going
Speaker 2: to dictate things like plane of motion, and there's many,
Speaker 2: many choices that you have. So I would go and
Speaker 2: I would say, Okay, well, here's the origin assertion of
Speaker 2: the pectoralyis major, here's like what it does, Here's all
Speaker 2: the things that it can do. If I'm going to
Speaker 2: go to incline, how many degrees of incline do I want? Optimally?
Speaker 2: I go back to my book and it's like okay, wow,
Speaker 2: So now I'm learning how this theory actually is applied.
Speaker 2: So yes, and I would talk about it. I would
Speaker 2: listen to things as well. I did the same thing.
Speaker 2: I record myself, which was painful at first, but then
Speaker 2: at the end of the week, you've applied the information
Speaker 2: you've read, the information you've listened to the information you've taught,
Speaker 2: the information you're saturating multiple learning modalities. You're gonna learn
Speaker 2: faster if it's actually something that you're interested in, that
Speaker 2: you deeply care about. That's a high level of engagement.
Speaker 2: You're gonna seek out more and more information because your
Speaker 2: self efficacy or confidence is increasing, but so is your capacity.
Speaker 2: You're you're expanding your ability to engage with the world
Speaker 2: relative to that information. I think that's really exciting, and
Speaker 2: you could do that. I mean, you could do that
Speaker 2: on your own. If you're that type of person. You
Speaker 2: can do that in university. Let me flip Let me
Speaker 2: flip this on you. Since you've been going for your PhD,
Speaker 2: what has been the single most impactful aspect of that
Speaker 2: experience on the pay.
Speaker 1: I stay journey MS. I don't think there's been a
Speaker 1: single thing. But as I've said many times, like I'm
Speaker 1: not a natural academic, right, and so for me being
Speaker 1: an environment that's not my natural habitat doing a thing
Speaker 1: that doesn't come easily or naturally learning a new language,
Speaker 1: it's been apart from the actual practical process of designing research,
Speaker 1: running research, interpreting data, writing papers, learning you know how
Speaker 1: to write academically, learning how to apply to journals and
Speaker 1: stand in front of a board and do you performance reviews.
Speaker 1: You know, four of those I had to do. I've
Speaker 1: done them all. I've got through them, which is all
Speaker 1: the practical stuff. But really for me just doing something
Speaker 1: where I don't think I ever get ahead of myself,
Speaker 1: because I've never thought I'm a genius. But realizing that
Speaker 1: one there's so much that I don't know and now
Speaker 1: I'm learning. But two, I can start a PhD at
Speaker 1: fifty six and do it. I can finish it at
Speaker 1: sixty one. I can become whatever, a doctor of psychology
Speaker 1: at sixty one I can do, you know, So for
Speaker 1: me a little bit about confidence, a little bit about
Speaker 1: understanding myself, and you know, on a practical level, how
Speaker 1: to do real world research, to design studies, to get
Speaker 1: bums on seats, to get ethical approval, to advertise for participants,
Speaker 1: to figure out, no, you can't do that cretic and
Speaker 1: you can't talk like that, and you can't write like that,
Speaker 1: and you can't get participants that way. And by the way,
Speaker 1: here are thirteen design flaws in your methodology or your
Speaker 1: intended You know all of that where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this has to be perfect or as close to perfect
Speaker 1: as you can do. Whereas as you know, I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit you know, I'm Freddy freestyle. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: let's just see, Like yesterday I did a six hour
Speaker 1: corporate and I turn up and I speak, and I
Speaker 1: have no notes and I have no PowerPoint and I
Speaker 1: have no and it went well. But I'm in the moment,
Speaker 1: I'm in flow, I'm reading the room, I'm and all
Speaker 1: of that stuff with works with that task or that role.
Speaker 1: That doesn't work doing a PhD because there's none of that.
Speaker 1: So for me learning by the way, you know, just
Speaker 1: because you maybe have a little bit of a profile crag,
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything just because you think you're a
Speaker 1: bit funny. Nobody cares just because you think you're a
Speaker 1: bit clever. In some ways, you're not hearing the dunst
Speaker 1: in the room. And you know, I think, and I'm
Speaker 1: in that in a self loathing way at all, just
Speaker 1: a self a wems way. So it's been many, many
Speaker 1: times more beneficial than I thought it would be.
Speaker 2: So here's something that I clearly remember. I had signed
Speaker 2: up for a public speaking a presenter's mastermind. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it was it was kind of cool. It wasn't you know.
Speaker 2: It was the best experience with these things. I've had
Speaker 2: to be fair. But you would get coached group coaching.
Speaker 2: You would have your one on one coaching, and one
Speaker 2: of the things in the modules that they had you
Speaker 2: do is write out what you're gonna speak about word
Speaker 2: for word and memorize it. So if you're going to
Speaker 2: give a forty five minute keynote, like you know, you're
Speaker 2: going to have like, however many pages? I know I
Speaker 2: had like over twenty pages. I think that was a
Speaker 2: little bit too much. You're going to scale back. But
Speaker 2: it's like literally from Hello, introducing yourself all the way
Speaker 2: to thank you word for word that is for me personally,
Speaker 2: or recipe for a nightmare of a presentation. I don't
Speaker 2: think that way. I don't function that way, although lately
Speaker 2: I've been preparing for speeches that way. That's that's a
Speaker 2: totally different podcast. And I remember I was telling life,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know if I if I'm really
Speaker 2: in the right mastermind. I think this was a mistake.
Speaker 2: This is so anathetical to how I think, how I learn,
Speaker 2: how I perform. She's like, that's why you need to do.
Speaker 2: It's like if you never take any of their advice,
Speaker 2: just do what they tell you to do and learn
Speaker 2: how to do something well like develop a let maybe
Speaker 2: not mastery. You're not going to spend ten years on this,
Speaker 2: but develop a level of proficiency with this just because
Speaker 2: it opens up different insights and pathways. You could throw
Speaker 2: it all away if it doesn't work for you, but
Speaker 2: go through it. That's the exact reason. So the question
Speaker 2: I have for you is if you were going to
Speaker 2: let's say the day you got your PhD, like you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm over this, I'm not going to use
Speaker 2: this for anything, in what ways would you be more
Speaker 2: more well equipped, more insightful. What would be the benefits
Speaker 2: in your life and work for going through the process
Speaker 2: even if you never use it for anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. So on practical you know, on level,
Speaker 1: I'm a lot more confidence to talk about you know,
Speaker 1: research and science with people because I have a better
Speaker 1: understanding and having been through the process. So I'm still
Speaker 1: i still think I've got my al plates on right,
Speaker 1: but I've got a better academic and intellectual and scientific
Speaker 1: and methodological understanding around how things work. So there's that,
Speaker 1: But Honestly, I feel this is going to sound like cheesy,
Speaker 1: but I feel more humble and grounded because I realize
Speaker 1: how smart so many people are, how much stuff there
Speaker 1: is to know, how little I know. And I guess when,
Speaker 1: like yesterday, I'm going to say the name, I'm going
Speaker 1: to give a shout out to the company. I did
Speaker 1: a gig for a company called Fireline. Shout out to them.
Speaker 1: They were great and we were together not six hours,
Speaker 1: five hours from eight to one ish.
Speaker 3: And I realize that when I'm doing that, when I'm
Speaker 3: talking to a group about you know, without giving any
Speaker 3: secret away, but we're just talking about the idea of
Speaker 3: high performance, high performance as a team, as a company,
Speaker 3: as an organization, as an individual.
Speaker 1: And we're not talking about making the Olympic team, or
Speaker 1: curing cancer or flying to the moon. We're just talking
Speaker 1: about how do we get the most out of us
Speaker 1: with what we've got to work with? Right, So, what's
Speaker 1: your psychological, emotional, practical, whatever potential? How much of that
Speaker 1: are you using? What are we doing great? What are
Speaker 1: we not doing great? And I think like being in
Speaker 1: that environment now with all the experiential insight and understanding
Speaker 1: and working with teams and athletes and all the shit
Speaker 1: I've done for forty years and then working on the
Speaker 1: last five and a half years of this academic process.
Speaker 1: I guess it gives me more confidence to speak about
Speaker 1: things that I once felt like a fraud to speak about.
Speaker 1: And that's more about my insecurity and my self doubt
Speaker 1: and my imposter syndrome than it is now. I'm a
Speaker 1: genius and I can talk with confidence rot. So I
Speaker 1: guess that the long winded answer is in pought confidence
Speaker 1: and awareness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, confidence and awareness. I mean those two things,
Speaker 2: like awareness, especially self awareness, key to the lock on
Speaker 2: any type of long term behavior change. Confidence. If you're
Speaker 2: not confident, are you really going to act on what
Speaker 2: you're becoming increasingly aware of? Maybe not, because why would
Speaker 2: you if you don't believe that you can bring an
Speaker 2: outcome or an experience to fruition. So when you think
Speaker 2: about how many people are working in industries that have
Speaker 2: nothing to do with what they majored in, still probably
Speaker 2: a lot of benefit that they want to university anyway.
Speaker 2: So I guess, and that's just where I sit. Whatever
Speaker 2: it is, whatever journey or path you're taking, yeah, road
Speaker 2: less traveled, just just go far down that path, like,
Speaker 2: go for it. So I think who you become at
Speaker 2: the end of that, and what you experience and what
Speaker 2: that opens up for you. It makes your life a
Speaker 2: lot bigger if you allow it to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I one hundredsent agree. So I've got a
Speaker 1: couple of questions for you. So people might be listening
Speaker 1: to this thinking, yeah, I don't want to go to
Speaker 1: you any thanks anyway, but I really want to. I
Speaker 1: want to be more informed and more educated, and I
Speaker 1: think now has never been in some ways, It's never
Speaker 1: been easier to access information and research and all of that,
Speaker 1: but it's never been simultaneously, it's never been easier to
Speaker 1: get tripped up because there's so much bullshit. So what's
Speaker 1: your advice for people who want to educate themselves using
Speaker 1: the Internet and all the various websites and resources and
Speaker 1: portals as basically you know their go to for like,
Speaker 1: how do we how do we decipher and filter through
Speaker 1: what is true and what is bullshit? And what is
Speaker 1: a sales pitch? I know there's no three step answer
Speaker 1: to this, but what's your broad advice, Because I mean you,
Speaker 1: this is where both of us, you and I do
Speaker 1: a huge amount of online stuff where we're researching and
Speaker 1: we're picking through this stuff. But what's your advice?
Speaker 2: The answer is forty two Yes, that's rightly Hitchhiker's got
Speaker 2: to the galaxy. But I think the follow up is
Speaker 2: the key to that, which is, but what's the question?
Speaker 2: What are the what are the questions or the question
Speaker 2: that you're seeking an answer to and why? I think
Speaker 2: you know, that's a good place to start. What's the benefit?
Speaker 2: What what exactly is the outcome you're looking for? And
Speaker 2: this doesn't have to be well, I'm going to increase
Speaker 2: fifty sales you know a year to hit my income
Speaker 2: goal of you know that it can be that it
Speaker 2: could be something intrinsic in you, a shift, but clearly
Speaker 2: know what it is that you're after and what did
Speaker 2: you you're trying to do. And if you start with
Speaker 2: a question, you can go to chat GPT and say, well,
Speaker 2: here's a question I have, you know, pretend that you
Speaker 2: know you were my you know, professor, Yeah, where should
Speaker 2: I go? What are all the references I should look
Speaker 2: at out of those? You know, given the context of
Speaker 2: I'm asking this question with the intention of what are
Speaker 2: the top five or ten and just start there. I
Speaker 2: mean with research. You know, we were talking about something
Speaker 2: before you hit the record button where somebody comes out
Speaker 2: and says, well, study show that's one of the most
Speaker 2: irritating statements that anyone can make, because one, I think
Speaker 2: it's I think it's a little bit manipulative. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's always intentional, but it's a little bit manipultive.
Speaker 2: Number two, what studies? What was the methodol like, what
Speaker 2: were the end values? Was it of a duplicated But
Speaker 2: I think that's where you have to decide your line
Speaker 2: of evidence. What is your line of evidence, and if
Speaker 2: it's line of evidence is just what is it that's
Speaker 2: acceptable for you in terms of efficacy and quality information?
Speaker 2: So you know your your line of research for some people,
Speaker 2: your line of evidence for some people is like a randomized,
Speaker 2: you know, double blind experiment, that kind of it. And
Speaker 2: this has to be duplicated. You know who else has
Speaker 2: produced the same result? Is it one study showed this
Speaker 2: or is it well, you know what we've done a
Speaker 2: meta analysis of twenty seven high quality studies published in
Speaker 2: High impact factor. That's just that's just showing the quality
Speaker 2: of the journal that's published in. Right, So low impact
Speaker 2: factor would be like Capuccio's journal, don't read that journal
Speaker 2: if you want to see it, or or nature would
Speaker 2: be on the other end of that. So let's say
Speaker 2: you know, there are twenty five quality studies published and
Speaker 2: they all pretty much are saying the same thing. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, that's kind of assuring that what you're reading
Speaker 2: and the answer to that question has some validity behind it.
Speaker 2: Or you know, let's take sales. I might not be
Speaker 2: able to point to a study, but I might talk
Speaker 2: to some of the top sales people in my organization
Speaker 2: that are constantly being brought up at the national event
Speaker 2: every year because they're at the top of the company.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, would you sit with me and help me?
Speaker 2: You know, what do you think makes you as effective
Speaker 2: as you are? You know, with all the successes you've
Speaker 2: had over your career, what do you attribute most to that? Well,
Speaker 2: that's not research, that's purely anecdotal. But then you talk
Speaker 2: to another salesperson, like let's say number two in the company,
Speaker 2: and then you talk to someone who's number one in
Speaker 2: a different industry, and there are some correlations there as
Speaker 2: long as it's as long as it's not unethical, What
Speaker 2: they're doing and you trying it is not going to
Speaker 2: hurt yourself with others, experiment with stuff and see what works.
Speaker 2: So that's a completely different line of evidence. When you're
Speaker 2: getting your PhD. That's not a line of evidence that's
Speaker 2: really going to work for you. When I'm trying stuff
Speaker 2: out in the world, my line of evidence is my decision.
Speaker 2: So know what that is. And you know, like two emotions.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there are emotions, they could be
Speaker 2: mental states that you need to learn effectively, both psychologically neurobiologically.
Speaker 2: Is curiosity and frustration? What are you curious about? And
Speaker 2: are you challenging yourself enough to where you're frustrated to
Speaker 2: creating the biochemical environments in your brain to optimize focus
Speaker 2: and learning.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. I've never I've never heard that
Speaker 1: time that way. What's the is the spice between self
Speaker 1: help and full education? Is the gap getting bigger or smaller?
Speaker 1: Or is it unchanged?
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I have no idea how to
Speaker 2: answer that question. What I can say he's.
Speaker 1: A better question. Maybe so you and I from both
Speaker 1: of us had a similar part in our early twenties
Speaker 1: maybe late teens. We both opened the self outdoor went
Speaker 1: via you Know Everything from you Know which you Know,
Speaker 1: Tony Robbins has sets to Stephen Covey to you Know.
Speaker 1: I think we opened a lot of the same books
Speaker 1: and listened to a lot of the same people. How
Speaker 1: has that kind of self help or personal development evolved
Speaker 1: or devolved in your opinion where we're at now in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: I think you can seely say it's far more ubiquitous
Speaker 2: than it was twenty years ago. Like everybody right now
Speaker 2: has access or plugged into self help. In the West,
Speaker 2: it's almost a daily way of life. I mean, there
Speaker 2: are more self help gurus than there are like seminar
Speaker 2: participants at this stage in the game. So it's I
Speaker 2: think it's grown and it shifted quite a bit, hasn't
Speaker 2: it now. I think self help for me was amazing
Speaker 2: because I think there's a lot I have a lot
Speaker 2: of criticisms of self help, but I also think it
Speaker 2: brings a lot of value. I think if you're constantly
Speaker 2: engaging in ideas that expand your imagination and your scope
Speaker 2: of possibilities and your interests, it's like, oh, I want
Speaker 2: to try that, I want to learn more about that.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. I just think it requires a combination of
Speaker 2: doing your own I don't want to say research, but
Speaker 2: your own learning process, questioning everything you hear. You can
Speaker 2: go to Google scholar and type in you know, triggers, cues,
Speaker 2: and habit formation see what comes up. So if somebody's
Speaker 2: recommending something on Instagram, it could be the greatest advice
Speaker 2: in the world, or you know, they could be an
Speaker 2: end value of one. It could have worked for them
Speaker 2: nobody else. You have enough tools now where you can
Speaker 2: go and investigate and let your curiosity drive you. Here's
Speaker 2: an example, right. I think I've talked about this on
Speaker 2: the show because it was a hilarious point in my life.
Speaker 2: But I was listening to a self help speaker. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to mention any names, and what they were
Speaker 2: talking about was the Yale Study of nineteen fifty three. Now,
Speaker 2: as I'm saying this, you probably know what I'm talking
Speaker 2: about already. You've come across this for those of you
Speaker 2: who haven't. Back in nineteen fifty three, Yale University and
Speaker 2: Ivy League School in the United States surveyed the entire
Speaker 2: graduating class and they asked them a specific question, how
Speaker 2: many of you have clearly defined written goals and plans
Speaker 2: for their achievement. And what was interesting is either the
Speaker 2: entire graduating class of nineteen fifty three at Yale, only
Speaker 2: three percent had clearly defined written goals and plans for
Speaker 2: their achievement. And they followed these people for twenty years,
Speaker 2: all the way up to nineteen seventy three. And then
Speaker 2: when they went back and they interviewed these people again,
Speaker 2: what they found was astonishing. The surviving members of the
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty three class that had clearly defined written goals
Speaker 2: and plans for their achievement were earning more than the
Speaker 2: other ninety seven percent. But what is really powerful about
Speaker 2: that is they were earning more than the other ninety
Speaker 2: seven percent combined. Now, Harvard did a very similar study
Speaker 2: years later, and they found the same exact results and
Speaker 2: the same exact ratios. And I went ahead when I
Speaker 2: heard that, and I started clearly writing out my goals
Speaker 2: and plans for their achievement. And one year from when
Speaker 2: I had done that, half of the goals that I
Speaker 2: had written down for myself, whether you know, whatever level
Speaker 2: of ambition as a person who's just you know, turned
Speaker 2: twenty would have I achieved them now, neither the Yale
Speaker 2: study nor the Harvard study ever took place. It's an
Speaker 2: urban myth because Fast Company magazine credible publication. Lawrence Tayback
Speaker 2: was a researcher and he was interested in this, and
Speaker 2: he researched the Yale and Harvard study, and no one
Speaker 2: at Yale nor Harvard had any information on a study
Speaker 2: like that ever having taken place. So you'll hear something
Speaker 2: from self help and you'll run with it like, wow,
Speaker 2: this is amazing. And they even contacted Fast Companies team
Speaker 2: contacted a couple of speakers that had actually said this
Speaker 2: quite often, and the response was, well, if it's not true,
Speaker 2: it ought to be. Yes, that's kind of interesting. But
Speaker 2: there's two ways you can take it. One, you had
Speaker 2: people that sold tons of books, seminars, tapes deceiving their audience.
Speaker 2: It's an outright lie. Whether you know it's a lie.
Speaker 2: Maybe you read a book from someone who read a
Speaker 2: book that was written by somebody who made this stuff up,
Speaker 2: but you are deceiving people. On the other hand, half
Speaker 2: of my goals were achieved because there's a lot of
Speaker 2: science behind goal setting and what goal setting does and
Speaker 2: how it changes the biochemistry in your brain, how it
Speaker 2: supports mental health, how it supports resilience. So and you know,
Speaker 2: if your goals are aligned to your values, there's engagement
Speaker 2: and there's a sense of well being there. So you're
Speaker 2: probably going to work longer, You're going to try more stuff.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of validity, even though the actual story
Speaker 2: was fictitious. So there's two ways you could frame that.
Speaker 2: And if you're listening to this, I'll let you decide
Speaker 2: which one is more powerful for you.
Speaker 1: That's super interesting and it's I guess one of the
Speaker 1: ongoing practical realities for people is there's the idea that
Speaker 1: you know, I want to do be, create, change x
Speaker 1: y Z. So there's the thing that I want to
Speaker 1: achieve or produce or change the habit I want to
Speaker 1: you know, let go of, or the habit I want
Speaker 1: to create, or the money I want to earn, or
Speaker 1: the body I want to build, or the health state
Speaker 1: I want to transform on, whatever it is. There's the idea,
Speaker 1: So that's that's the goal, But then there's the execution.
Speaker 1: Then there's the doing. So the idea, the intention, the
Speaker 1: goal of the plan. You know that to do list
Speaker 1: is all theory, but it's then you know, stepping into
Speaker 1: what can be the uncertain, uncomfortable, unfamiliar, unenjoyable at times
Speaker 1: process like the idea of doing shit. The goal, the
Speaker 1: intention is not the same as the work right, And
Speaker 1: I think that that's being able to set a goal easy,
Speaker 1: being able to execute the goal, being able to consistently
Speaker 1: act on the goal through peaks and troughs and motivation
Speaker 1: and focus and excitement and support, all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: That's the challenge.
Speaker 2: That is the exact problem that I have with self help.
Speaker 2: That is my biggest criticism is self help will tell
Speaker 2: you what to do. Everybody knows what to do, and
Speaker 2: if you're not doing what they're doing, well, clearly you're
Speaker 2: doing it wrong. And they'll search many levels deep to
Speaker 2: find you guilty of something. If the speaker's really good,
Speaker 2: they'll get into what your personal why behind the what
Speaker 2: is not their why. There's enough of those as well.
Speaker 2: What they leave out very often is the how. And
Speaker 2: if you're not taking the look at research and the
Speaker 2: what the empirical evidence says, and you're taking things at
Speaker 2: face value, you're gonna become frustrated and you're going to
Speaker 2: start to develop erroneous beliefs. About yourself and has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with something that you lack internally. It's just
Speaker 2: that you don't have the mechanism and the vehicle. Like
Speaker 2: if you are going to race and you know you
Speaker 2: could be the greatest car driver in the world, you
Speaker 2: could be a Formula one driver. If your race against
Speaker 2: someone who's in a Honda, but all you have is
Speaker 2: a golf cart, You're not going to win. You just
Speaker 2: don't have the right vehicle. And you can tell yourself
Speaker 2: stories about how, man, if I only would have driven harder,
Speaker 2: if I only was more motivated, you know, if I
Speaker 2: only wanted it more. No, dude, you were in a
Speaker 2: golf court. So they'll say things like what you just
Speaker 2: said execution, But when you look at the research, how
Speaker 2: do people execute and how do they go about achieving
Speaker 2: their goals dealing with sets yes in order to increase
Speaker 2: the probability that they'll succeed or at least maintain those
Speaker 2: behaviors in the long term. You know, one thing that
Speaker 2: self help comes up with is, you know, happiness is
Speaker 2: a decision, right, So if I'm someone who is just
Speaker 2: crimogeneous and I'm miserable, and maybe I'm going through something
Speaker 2: that I haven't explored. Holy shit, now I'm guilty because
Speaker 2: I'm not a positive person. I need to side well.
Speaker 2: When when you look at the research that has been
Speaker 2: duplicated by many qualified researchers, fifty percent of happiness is genetic.
Speaker 2: It's heredity, natural selection, gene mutation. You're not gonna do
Speaker 2: a damn thing about that, no matter how much you decide.
Speaker 2: Another ten percent is situational. I lost my job, Well,
Speaker 2: that's going to impact your happiness, especially in the immediate
Speaker 2: You're gonna habituate to that. You know, we habituate to
Speaker 2: really good things happening to us. We kind of habituate,
Speaker 2: thankfully to really bad things happening to us. But you
Speaker 2: have the forty percent in between there, and none of
Speaker 2: that forty percent, according to the research, falls into the
Speaker 2: category of decide or just do it. There are specific
Speaker 2: behaviors that people engage in. You know, you don't go
Speaker 2: out and find happiness. You do happiness. So just that
Speaker 2: happiness is a choice that's gonna make me very unhappy.
Speaker 2: It's also going to prevent me from engage in things
Speaker 2: like affective labeling, which the research says is one of
Speaker 2: the most important things you need to do if you
Speaker 2: want to avoid ruminating on negative emotions or just suppressing
Speaker 2: them for the rest of your life and exacerbating your discontentment.
Speaker 2: So things like that get me going, like, there's got
Speaker 2: to be there's got to be a how like you
Speaker 2: going for your PhD? Imagine this right, you sit down
Speaker 2: with you know, you're seeing your supervisor. He says, Craig,
Speaker 2: here's here's like all the information, here's all the data,
Speaker 2: and we expect the thesis, go after it. And then
Speaker 2: you come back and it's like, well, okay, well I
Speaker 2: don't know how to make sense of this. Well look, Craig,
Speaker 2: if you want the PhD, you just have to want
Speaker 2: it bad enough. Discipline yourself, stay up late into the night,
Speaker 2: wake up early in the morning. We want that thesis.
Speaker 2: To me, that's someone who has no idea how to
Speaker 2: guide you. So they're putting it on you so then
Speaker 2: they can say, well, you didn't do what I told
Speaker 2: you to do. You didn't do the work. No, there's
Speaker 2: a very specific process, and that process is there for
Speaker 2: a reason. It doesn't excuse hard work. It demands it,
Speaker 2: but it structures it. And when something goes wrong and
Speaker 2: I'm assuming in a PhD. There are a lot of
Speaker 2: those moments. You know how to notice it, evaluate it,
Speaker 2: and begin again more intelligently as a result of it,
Speaker 2: and probably learn more than if that never happened. That's process.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so interesting. Yeah, I've had this, I mean
Speaker 1: I've had a long time, but I've started doing something
Speaker 1: about it, and you know, like does it hurt? Yeah,
Speaker 1: well there's a little bit of that, but that's a
Speaker 1: different podcast. Now none at the moment, actually pretty good.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: I'll come to sixty.
Speaker 3: I realized that I realized a long time, guys, that
Speaker 3: I can walk into a room as can you.
Speaker 1: I mean, you and I have worked together on the
Speaker 1: same stage. You've spoken at my weekend camps, You've been
Speaker 1: We've done a lot of stuff together over the years.
Speaker 1: And you can walk out and you can talk for
Speaker 1: forty five minute Kenota, or you can talk all day
Speaker 1: and you can blow people away, and you know, I
Speaker 1: can walk out and do my thing and make a
Speaker 1: few people laugh. And you know, I just got some
Speaker 1: feedback this morning from a gig that I did through
Speaker 1: a speaking agency for an organization last week, and it
Speaker 1: was lovely, It was wonderful, it was amazing and very positive, right,
Speaker 1: all you know, nice stuff. And then which is good
Speaker 1: because as a speaker, you don't want them to say
Speaker 1: your shit. You want them to go that was good.
Speaker 1: We enjoyed him, he did a great job. We want
Speaker 1: to get him back. We would recommend him highly right,
Speaker 1: tickety boo, as Paul Taylor says, you've ticked the box.
Speaker 1: And that's good, freer and good for business. But there's
Speaker 1: this other bit where like, I know that I can
Speaker 1: turn up and do my job. I know that I
Speaker 1: can be funny, tell stories being gained you. Not always,
Speaker 1: not every time do I kill it or crush it.
Speaker 1: But most of the time, especially after four hundred years
Speaker 1: of practice, most of the time it's somewhere between okay
Speaker 1: and pretty good. Right. But I really have this awareness
Speaker 1: that in many instances like that, when a speaker gets
Speaker 1: up and talks, then he or she gets off the
Speaker 1: stage and goes away and never sees that audience ever again.
Speaker 1: And then while that audience might be temporarily inspired, motivated,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, impressed, the amount of people who will
Speaker 1: then take away those ideas, thought, strategies, information and operationalize
Speaker 1: it and actually create real world change and do something
Speaker 1: and keep doing something, and that moment in time with
Speaker 1: Bobby or Craig or Sally or Donna on the stage,
Speaker 1: that moment in time will become the catalyst for something
Speaker 1: truly transformative. That's a different question. And so now I've
Speaker 1: been doing this thing where I leave a few minutes
Speaker 1: at the end where I almost like walk over, sit
Speaker 1: on the edge of the stage, swing my feet, and
Speaker 1: I'll just go, look, here's the deal. You know, we
Speaker 1: just had a good time. I made you laugh, I
Speaker 1: told you some stories. I think for the most part
Speaker 1: you liked it. You see, pretty engaged in connected. That's
Speaker 1: all good. But and then I'll talk about what really
Speaker 1: matters is not the hour that we just had, but
Speaker 1: what happens next. And again that's not fixing it or
Speaker 1: solving it, but I'm just trying to impress upon them
Speaker 1: the importance of, you know, the actual journey versus the
Speaker 1: theory of the journey.
Speaker 2: You know, I think those numbers, whatever they are, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: they show up quite a lot. I mean that that
Speaker 2: three percent is saving quite a bit, Like three percent
Speaker 2: of the room will go out and change their lives
Speaker 2: as a result of what is you had to say?
Speaker 2: The other ninety seven percent won't. Now that doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that they won't, but they'll read a book, or they'll
Speaker 2: sign up for the next seminar and the next one,
Speaker 2: maybe four seminars. In some of those people, that day
Speaker 2: is their day. But those numbers, those numbers are pretty consistent.
Speaker 2: And I understand because I've heard professionals in the fitness industry,
Speaker 2: trainers saying the effect of what is wrong with ninety
Speaker 2: seven percent of the people? And I think I don't
Speaker 2: agree with that statement, but I think it's a fair
Speaker 2: statement because when you dedicate your life to hopefully adding
Speaker 2: value to others through what it is that you can
Speaker 2: teach or import or how you can help or guide,
Speaker 2: it's really frustrating because I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: that get into those professions, not all, but a lot
Speaker 2: of they're really invested in seeing people transform and having
Speaker 2: a better experience of life. But I think a more
Speaker 2: powerful question becomes what's different about the three percent? Like
Speaker 2: what is really different without without a throwaway word like well,
Speaker 2: it's confidence, it's you know, it's discipline, it's you know, character,
Speaker 2: What exactly does that mean? Like, explain that function in
Speaker 2: the brain when you say that, But what is different?
Speaker 2: About the three percent that take action versus the ninety
Speaker 2: seven percent that don't. You know, but that's a big question.
Speaker 1: But also sometimes the ninety seven percent in the next
Speaker 1: you know, it's like maybe someone sits in nineteen presentations
Speaker 1: and they're in the ninety cent and then the twentieth presentation,
Speaker 1: something goes off in their brain and now they're in
Speaker 1: the three percent. Sometimes I think it's where they're at mentally, emotionally,
Speaker 1: psychologically whatever, sociologically, and there's you know, maybe it's timing,
Speaker 1: maybe there's I don't know, I just think that for
Speaker 1: a range of reasons. Ah, you know, some people are
Speaker 1: just not ready and like starting when you're not really ready,
Speaker 1: like you're really really not ready to do the work
Speaker 1: and keep going. It's probably better that you don't start
Speaker 1: rather than starting throwing throw it in and start and
Speaker 1: throw it in. To say, I say to people all
Speaker 1: the time, you know, what do you want? But then cool,
Speaker 1: of course, you know what would you talk about? And
Speaker 1: the why, the driver the real reason. But then there's
Speaker 1: the how fucking much do you want it?
Speaker 4: Because unless the answer is like a lot, then you're
Speaker 4: probably because the chances of you starting with kind of
Speaker 4: like a shoulder shrugg and creating a life changing, powerful outcome.
Speaker 1: The chances of that are pretty much.
Speaker 2: Zero, unless, of course, you don't know exactly what that is.
Speaker 2: Go and say again, unless you don't know exactly what
Speaker 2: that is for you where I'm coming to this seminar
Speaker 2: because I'm looking, you know, I'm curious, but not serious.
Speaker 2: That's okay, because I think there's something to be said, like, like,
Speaker 2: why do human beings play like I'm a big fan
Speaker 2: of Stuart Brown, you know, in his book Play, you know,
Speaker 2: human beings as mammals like my cat, he will play
Speaker 2: all day long if you let him. He is always
Speaker 2: in a play state. For for a mammal, that's very
Speaker 2: dangerous because if he was out in the wild the
Speaker 2: time he's playing, he's not vigilant about predators, he's not
Speaker 2: hunting at the moment. It's pretty risky business. So why
Speaker 2: is so much of mammalian behavior dedicated to play? There's
Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. It helps us socialize with one another.
Speaker 2: It allows us to experiment out in the world and
Speaker 2: try stuff out and figure out who we are and
Speaker 2: where our places within you know, within that troop, within
Speaker 2: that clan, you know, whatever. So I think going around
Speaker 2: and experimenting with things and seeing what clicks does work,
Speaker 2: there is value in that. So if you're like, ah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, you know what? So what like?
Speaker 2: What are you interested in? What are you hoping happens here?
Speaker 1: And there?
Speaker 2: Used to be something that self help speakers used to
Speaker 2: do and it started to irritate me. But now I
Speaker 2: have a very different opinion about it. I've reversed this
Speaker 2: where and you've heard this in seminars you've been to
Speaker 2: where they'd start off by saying, I know two things
Speaker 2: about everyone in this room. Person just slept on stage,
Speaker 2: didn't even introduce himself. I've never seen this guy before.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he's never seen me, but he knows two
Speaker 2: things about me. Okay, this I want to hear right.
Speaker 2: Number one, you are in the top ninety percent of
Speaker 2: anyone working in your industry today. And if you're not
Speaker 2: in the top ninety percent, you're well on your way
Speaker 2: because less than ten percent of the people take the
Speaker 2: time to read the books and go to courses. And
Speaker 2: I don't know where they got that stat from. And
Speaker 2: so they're talking to me about all the things they
Speaker 2: know about me and it's like that sounds manipulent, But
Speaker 2: when you look at it from a behavior change perspective,
Speaker 2: if you can point out to someone where they're already
Speaker 2: taking action so before they go out and execute, it's like, listen,
Speaker 2: you've already executed, You've already engaged. You're already the type
Speaker 2: of person that does this stuff. Right, So you've bought
Speaker 2: a ticket to the event, You've gotten in a car,
Speaker 2: a train, a plane, you've taken off from work, or
Speaker 2: you've missed a weekend. You've already sacrificed and done the work.
Speaker 2: You're that person. What is the most valuable thing you've
Speaker 2: heard from the stage today? What really lands with you?
Speaker 2: What's one thing in the next seven days you can
Speaker 2: do to build on this momentum. Because I think that's
Speaker 2: different than Okay, hey, go out and do something. Use
Speaker 2: this versus you've already done this, because that languaging is
Speaker 2: connected to probability of action. So it's just something I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about, like because I don't want to. I don't
Speaker 2: want to trash self help because there are things I
Speaker 2: look at I'm like, oh wow, I think I was
Speaker 2: wrong about that. You know, two years from now, I'll
Speaker 2: probably have a different idea.
Speaker 1: If not, if not for self help, I don't think
Speaker 1: I would be where I am. And it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: that all of the stuff I read or heard was
Speaker 1: brilliant or transformative, but rather some of it was, by
Speaker 1: the way, but it really made me, as you talked
Speaker 1: about before, curiosity and frustration. But it made me curious,
Speaker 1: like made me because I didn't have a high opinion
Speaker 1: of me. And then but I just started to think, oh, well,
Speaker 1: maybe or maybe I don't need to be you know,
Speaker 1: who I think I am.
Speaker 5: Maybe there is more for me, maybe you know so
Speaker 5: for me, just that just hearing some of the stuff,
Speaker 5: like My Genesis was first book I ever read, was
Speaker 5: written in nine point thirty six, how to Win Friends
Speaker 5: and Influence People, Dale Carnegie, and you know that was
Speaker 5: I mean, just think that's coming up in eleven years,
Speaker 5: that'll be one hundred years old.
Speaker 1: That book. That's fucking amazing. I read that and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was very very basic, but probably where I was
Speaker 1: at very basic and what I needed was very basic,
Speaker 1: and he was just introducing these ideas about basically how
Speaker 1: to do better around other people and to think differently,
Speaker 1: and like really fundamental things. But for me, you know,
Speaker 1: like even the idea of thinking about how we think
Speaker 1: or thinking about how we see the world and opening
Speaker 1: that awareness store in our own kind of mind to go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's so, that's not the thing. That's just my story
Speaker 1: about the thing, and my story about the and the
Speaker 1: actual thing. I'm not the same, and just having that
Speaker 1: awareness of where my reality finishes and the objective whatever
Speaker 1: it is, begins. You know. So for me, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff which just made me, for a range of
Speaker 1: different reasons, pause and reflect and consider the fact that
Speaker 1: life didn't need to be the way it was, or
Speaker 1: I didn't need to be the way I was, and
Speaker 1: that I could actually be Obviously I was always going
Speaker 1: to be me, but I could be a better, modified,
Speaker 1: you know, slightly sociologically, psychologically, physiologically different version of me.
Speaker 1: Like that That's what. Yeah, that just kind of lit
Speaker 1: affusing me that has kept going forever.
Speaker 2: There's a lot there's a lot of good stuff in
Speaker 2: that book, and there's a lot of good stuff and
Speaker 2: self help. I feel like the same thing happened to
Speaker 2: me because I was so stuck in dealer survival, Like
Speaker 2: I didn't like the furthest I ever thought into the
Speaker 2: future was like morning to evening, like how do I
Speaker 2: get through this day and not end up in the hospital,
Speaker 2: not end up with anything broken, and pretty much stay alive.
Speaker 2: So there was that version of me, and then there
Speaker 2: was the past version of me, and my story about
Speaker 2: the past version of me that profoundly shape my reality
Speaker 2: probably still does. But when I started listening to self help,
Speaker 2: it dawned to me there's another version of me. There's
Speaker 2: the future version of me that's kind of unformed yet,
Speaker 2: and it's a certain trajectory. You know, like if you
Speaker 2: hop on a train and the train's going west and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden it's the last stop you can't
Speaker 2: take credit for, like, wow, look how far west I've gone.
Speaker 2: You couldn't have done otherwise you hopped on a westbound train.
Speaker 2: But you know, if you got off the train and
Speaker 2: you read a couple of maps and you started navigating
Speaker 2: and you made you took a different series of actions,
Speaker 2: well you can completely take credit for where you ended up. Well, no, actually,
Speaker 2: the conductor of the people drive in the train, but
Speaker 2: you are partly responsible for where you ended up. And
Speaker 2: I was like, there's a future version of me. There's
Speaker 2: many Wow, I wonder what I can do to live
Speaker 2: into some of the more attractive possibilities. Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 2: dawned on me. It's like I could shape myself. I
Speaker 2: don't have to be this person. I could become someone different. Now.
Speaker 2: That brought with it a lot of benefits. I did
Speaker 2: some things that you know were my best attempt, but
Speaker 2: you know, in retrospect it ill advised. So it brought
Speaker 2: about a lot of consequences as well. But it created
Speaker 2: the possibility it's possible to change. That was that was
Speaker 2: enthralling for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sign a lot of it. I think we're
Speaker 1: going to call this the other version of you. That's
Speaker 1: what this episode. When you said you could be another
Speaker 1: version of you? I love that. I How do people
Speaker 1: connect with you and listen to you and read you,
Speaker 1: engage you? How do people do that?
Speaker 2: Well? The only social media platform I'm really like, not on,
Speaker 2: but like engaged in is LinkedIn, and you can you
Speaker 2: can reach out to me at the self helpandad dot com,
Speaker 2: Robert Capuccio dot com. Those all the dot coms I have.
Speaker 1: And if you can't remember any of that, just send
Speaker 1: us anamail and we will forward. We will forward that's
Speaker 1: the great Man. Always great chatting to you buddy, Enjoy
Speaker 1: each What time is it like nine minutes past seven
Speaker 1: over there in the PM MH. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: off airybuddy, but thank you, see you next time, See
Speaker 1: you next time.