1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:20,521 Speaker 1: Appodchay production. You know, I've embraced technology, or technology got 2 00:00:20,521 --> 00:00:23,281 Speaker 1: myself in the trouble recording this conversation on the plane. 3 00:00:23,561 --> 00:00:28,601 Speaker 2: But so just on that, are you are you classed 4 00:00:28,601 --> 00:00:29,241 Speaker 2: as a criminal? 5 00:00:29,601 --> 00:00:29,841 Speaker 1: Yeah? 6 00:00:29,961 --> 00:00:34,321 Speaker 2: Yeah, well hang on, hang on, so Gary Jubilant, Yeah, 7 00:00:34,361 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 2: the ones the glorified detective that did some amazing things 8 00:00:39,801 --> 00:00:43,321 Speaker 2: has now been seen to be classed as someone with 9 00:00:43,361 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 2: a criminal conviction. 10 00:00:44,561 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: I've got and hit me, hit me now that you've 11 00:00:48,361 --> 00:00:49,921 Speaker 1: you've dug deep now haven't your brother? 12 00:00:51,161 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: I say this is a podcast because the which I'm 13 00:00:54,281 --> 00:00:56,361 Speaker 2: thinking you are. You know, we all do our podcasts, 14 00:00:56,401 --> 00:00:59,121 Speaker 2: and we all make them all all pretty and nice, 15 00:00:59,161 --> 00:01:02,161 Speaker 2: and we do things. And although this is not at 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,441 Speaker 2: once again uncensored, it's the clink, you know. I mean, 17 00:01:04,481 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: we're keeping a very open, very real, unscripted but I 18 00:01:08,361 --> 00:01:10,321 Speaker 2: have to ask the question, and because I'm sure there 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: are so many people who are listening this today and 20 00:01:12,721 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: go yeah, okay, well you've got sim their interview and 21 00:01:15,801 --> 00:01:19,121 Speaker 2: Gary Jubilan X detective will hang on a sec What 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,681 Speaker 2: makes you so much different to me and everybody else 23 00:01:21,721 --> 00:01:23,441 Speaker 2: out there now that has a criminal record? 24 00:01:23,521 --> 00:01:26,761 Speaker 1: Well, I just say I don't have a problem with you. 25 00:01:26,761 --> 00:01:28,961 Speaker 1: You're going hard because if you don't go hard, I can't. 26 00:01:29,241 --> 00:01:33,401 Speaker 1: I can't defend myself. So yeah, yeah, I'm a convicted criminal, 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: and I get called that on social media and comments there. 28 00:01:37,881 --> 00:01:40,641 Speaker 1: The other day, I wanted to work over in America 29 00:01:40,881 --> 00:01:43,681 Speaker 1: to do some stuff for the podcast. I had the 30 00:01:43,761 --> 00:01:48,041 Speaker 1: visa rejected because I'm I don't know what and the 31 00:01:49,121 --> 00:01:53,201 Speaker 1: and the tourist criminal. How does that feel? Well? Does 32 00:01:53,201 --> 00:01:53,601 Speaker 1: that feel? 33 00:01:54,561 --> 00:01:58,201 Speaker 2: I complait it serious, mateause I can tell you how 34 00:01:58,201 --> 00:02:00,601 Speaker 2: I fucking feels with My wife's threatened and told that 35 00:02:00,641 --> 00:02:02,481 Speaker 2: she's going to go back to New Zealand and I 36 00:02:02,521 --> 00:02:04,561 Speaker 2: won't see my kids because I can never get into 37 00:02:04,641 --> 00:02:07,881 Speaker 2: New Zealand because I have no right due to my 38 00:02:08,161 --> 00:02:13,761 Speaker 2: ex gang affiliations. In criminality, you're someone who's upheld the law. 39 00:02:14,201 --> 00:02:17,081 Speaker 2: If that's corrected, I say that right, upheld it upheld up, 40 00:02:17,561 --> 00:02:22,361 Speaker 2: I'll get corrected somewhere along joke's aside. You're now sitting 41 00:02:22,401 --> 00:02:25,361 Speaker 2: in the same boat as many of us with criminal convictions. 42 00:02:25,361 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Well, okay, As I said, life's a learning process. And 43 00:02:29,041 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: I wind it back even further when I was first 44 00:02:32,081 --> 00:02:33,961 Speaker 1: charged and when I had to appear at court and 45 00:02:34,001 --> 00:02:37,081 Speaker 1: when I was fighting it. I thought it hard in court, 46 00:02:37,161 --> 00:02:39,841 Speaker 1: and I make no apologies for what I did. I 47 00:02:39,921 --> 00:02:42,441 Speaker 1: make no apologies for the stance I know. 48 00:02:42,441 --> 00:02:45,361 Speaker 2: I'm a very sorry person. Can you make fuck all apologies? 49 00:02:46,921 --> 00:02:48,841 Speaker 2: I was about the tenth time I've heard you so 50 00:02:49,001 --> 00:02:53,321 Speaker 2: far by fifteen minutes already that you make no apology. 51 00:02:53,401 --> 00:02:55,921 Speaker 1: I apologize all the time, but I own my shit 52 00:02:56,121 --> 00:03:00,481 Speaker 1: and I own what I did. But what I wanted 53 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,361 Speaker 1: to say is that I for the first time felt 54 00:03:03,361 --> 00:03:06,121 Speaker 1: what it was like having the weight of the whole 55 00:03:06,161 --> 00:03:08,881 Speaker 1: state coming after you, know, the resources of the police 56 00:03:08,881 --> 00:03:11,921 Speaker 1: coming after and I got to say, it felt quite intimidating. 57 00:03:12,201 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: And I am a person that was set up probably 58 00:03:14,361 --> 00:03:16,881 Speaker 1: best out of anyone to handle that situation in that 59 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,841 Speaker 1: the allegations weren't something horrendous, it wasn't sort of something 60 00:03:20,841 --> 00:03:25,281 Speaker 1: to be ashamed of. The consequences weren't extreme. I wasn't 61 00:03:25,321 --> 00:03:27,361 Speaker 1: going to be locked away for the next twenty years. 62 00:03:27,881 --> 00:03:30,761 Speaker 1: But having the full resources of the state coming after you, 63 00:03:30,881 --> 00:03:33,681 Speaker 1: I felt how oppressive it was. And it made me 64 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,641 Speaker 1: reflect on stuff that I've done in the cops again, 65 00:03:36,801 --> 00:03:38,681 Speaker 1: not looking back and going and maybe I shouldn't have 66 00:03:38,721 --> 00:03:40,681 Speaker 1: done that. But more of an understanding if it was 67 00:03:40,681 --> 00:03:43,441 Speaker 1: someone like you, what it feels like. If you've got 68 00:03:43,521 --> 00:03:46,721 Speaker 1: charges coming, it's shit, and then you've got to go 69 00:03:46,801 --> 00:03:49,121 Speaker 1: face the court and all this crap that goes in 70 00:03:49,161 --> 00:03:51,161 Speaker 1: with the court and the brief of evidence, and then 71 00:03:51,201 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: you've got to serve the brief and then the response 72 00:03:53,201 --> 00:03:56,361 Speaker 1: and all the money that you spend. 73 00:03:55,401 --> 00:03:58,921 Speaker 2: So no favors in reference to, you know, having to 74 00:03:58,961 --> 00:04:01,521 Speaker 2: seek lawyers or leading later anything like this just because 75 00:04:01,601 --> 00:04:04,441 Speaker 2: you were once a serving off none of that. You 76 00:04:04,521 --> 00:04:07,681 Speaker 2: basically now I've been stripped of anything other than just 77 00:04:07,721 --> 00:04:11,441 Speaker 2: being Joe's citizen who's now been charged, has a criminal record, 78 00:04:11,521 --> 00:04:12,681 Speaker 2: and now must front. 79 00:04:12,401 --> 00:04:16,321 Speaker 1: The courts, charge convicted, and front front the courts. But 80 00:04:16,761 --> 00:04:19,681 Speaker 1: if anything, and I try to take positives from negatives, 81 00:04:19,761 --> 00:04:22,561 Speaker 1: and trust me that there was low points when that happened. 82 00:04:22,801 --> 00:04:24,601 Speaker 1: I was in the thick of my career. I was 83 00:04:24,681 --> 00:04:26,601 Speaker 1: enjoying what I was doing. I had the passion and 84 00:04:26,721 --> 00:04:29,281 Speaker 1: it was taken away from me overnight. So there was 85 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,241 Speaker 1: a low point. But then people smarter than me going, well, yeah, 86 00:04:33,521 --> 00:04:35,801 Speaker 1: wake up to yourself. It's not the end of the world. 87 00:04:36,361 --> 00:04:38,321 Speaker 1: And I see what some other people have been through 88 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,321 Speaker 1: the people that the families are victims of homicides and 89 00:04:41,641 --> 00:04:43,641 Speaker 1: different things, and I think, well, you've been a bit 90 00:04:43,641 --> 00:04:45,641 Speaker 1: of a softy year, like it's not that bad. Just 91 00:04:45,681 --> 00:04:47,961 Speaker 1: get on with your life. And that's that's what I've 92 00:04:48,041 --> 00:04:51,761 Speaker 1: chosen to do. But it has changed changed my thinking, 93 00:04:52,201 --> 00:04:57,041 Speaker 1: and yeah, I'd like to think I'm a better person 94 00:04:57,081 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: for it. I don't want to give credit to any 95 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,801 Speaker 1: of those idiots that caused all this drama on me, 96 00:05:02,081 --> 00:05:05,361 Speaker 1: but I think I'm a better person for it. It's 97 00:05:05,401 --> 00:05:09,241 Speaker 1: a more understanding. I've looked at your side of life, 98 00:05:09,641 --> 00:05:14,121 Speaker 1: people like yourself, and I'm not probably as judgmental as 99 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,641 Speaker 1: I perhaps was when I was in the cops, which 100 00:05:16,641 --> 00:05:17,481 Speaker 1: I think is a good thing. 101 00:05:17,841 --> 00:05:20,881 Speaker 2: I do too, And I can't wait to have you know, 102 00:05:20,921 --> 00:05:24,521 Speaker 2: our part of this podcast move into that stage because 103 00:05:24,521 --> 00:05:27,361 Speaker 2: there's some things that you have done and are doing there. 104 00:05:28,121 --> 00:05:32,001 Speaker 2: I will leave the door open for you talk about it. Yeah, 105 00:05:32,001 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: and I think it's important because you know, here you 106 00:05:34,601 --> 00:05:39,161 Speaker 2: are one minute being that cop that's you know, literally 107 00:05:39,201 --> 00:05:41,961 Speaker 2: putting people in jail. And as I said, we will 108 00:05:42,201 --> 00:05:46,601 Speaker 2: touch on it shortly. I just want to and look 109 00:05:46,641 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: asked if I can't go down this road, was this 110 00:05:49,721 --> 00:05:53,521 Speaker 2: in reference your charges to a very sensitive case involving 111 00:05:53,801 --> 00:05:55,521 Speaker 2: a young person who was missing. 112 00:05:55,681 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 113 00:05:57,561 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: I don't want to just start for the respect of 114 00:06:00,121 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: the families and someone saying names or what anything like that. 115 00:06:03,801 --> 00:06:07,201 Speaker 2: But as someone who is a moralistic man and somebody 116 00:06:07,281 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: whom came from a code and still lives by a code, 117 00:06:10,681 --> 00:06:15,241 Speaker 2: it's just how it is. I personally don't look at 118 00:06:15,281 --> 00:06:20,921 Speaker 2: you in that respect for what you have been alleged 119 00:06:20,961 --> 00:06:26,801 Speaker 2: to have done. You were trying to protect and get 120 00:06:26,841 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: to the bottom of an unsolved matter that related to 121 00:06:29,921 --> 00:06:34,201 Speaker 2: a child. So as a father, as a human, I 122 00:06:34,801 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: can't sit here and call you a piece of shit, 123 00:06:36,721 --> 00:06:39,721 Speaker 2: your weak dog, and all this sort of shit. If 124 00:06:39,761 --> 00:06:41,921 Speaker 2: we had met fifteen years ago and you were in 125 00:06:41,961 --> 00:06:44,201 Speaker 2: the cops and it you fary, not concern, you are 126 00:06:44,281 --> 00:06:46,281 Speaker 2: just a low cunt, you know what I mean, that 127 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,681 Speaker 2: would have been an interesting Well, there was every chance, 128 00:06:48,721 --> 00:06:54,001 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But due to why you've 129 00:06:54,041 --> 00:06:57,641 Speaker 2: been charged and no longer are you any way, shape 130 00:06:57,721 --> 00:07:01,761 Speaker 2: or form attached to any police service. You're a podcaster 131 00:07:02,721 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: who has a background. As I am, I'm not a criminal. 132 00:07:06,201 --> 00:07:10,281 Speaker 2: I have no IMC connection as such. Today, I'm a 133 00:07:10,321 --> 00:07:12,641 Speaker 2: father and a podcast and a hard working there, so 134 00:07:12,961 --> 00:07:15,761 Speaker 2: we're on even ground there. But that's that's a tough 135 00:07:15,761 --> 00:07:19,801 Speaker 2: call to see why you've now got a criminal record. 136 00:07:20,561 --> 00:07:26,321 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, life's not not fair. I'll mentioned the case 137 00:07:26,361 --> 00:07:30,041 Speaker 1: because it's public record. That was three year old whim 138 00:07:30,121 --> 00:07:32,801 Speaker 1: to the young boy and the spider man that disappeared 139 00:07:32,841 --> 00:07:37,241 Speaker 1: up at bener Roon Drive, breaking absolutely distraught. So yeah, 140 00:07:37,681 --> 00:07:40,161 Speaker 1: I ran the investigation for four years. I took it 141 00:07:40,161 --> 00:07:43,841 Speaker 1: over five months after he disappeared and headed up and 142 00:07:43,881 --> 00:07:46,521 Speaker 1: then I was taken off because I was recording a 143 00:07:46,521 --> 00:07:51,401 Speaker 1: conversation on telephone. On my telephone, I didn't hide with 144 00:07:51,641 --> 00:07:56,441 Speaker 1: a person of interest, a person involved in that investigation 145 00:07:56,521 --> 00:07:58,641 Speaker 1: that I wanted to speak to that I might also 146 00:07:58,721 --> 00:08:01,641 Speaker 1: add had lawfully approved listening devices in his house. So 147 00:08:02,001 --> 00:08:04,561 Speaker 1: that's without getting in the nitty gritty of the offenses. 148 00:08:04,601 --> 00:08:08,081 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm putting people before the court. So 149 00:08:08,081 --> 00:08:10,721 Speaker 1: I'd be a bit hypocritically if I don't accept the 150 00:08:10,761 --> 00:08:12,841 Speaker 1: decision of the court. You know, my whole career was 151 00:08:12,881 --> 00:08:15,081 Speaker 1: putting people before the court. So I just got to 152 00:08:15,081 --> 00:08:17,681 Speaker 1: cop it on the chin what I say. I'm not 153 00:08:17,721 --> 00:08:20,561 Speaker 1: ashamed of it, that's you know, I'm not ashamed of 154 00:08:20,601 --> 00:08:22,281 Speaker 1: what I did. I didn't do it for any any 155 00:08:23,041 --> 00:08:26,321 Speaker 1: ulterior motive. I'm not some I just want to touch it. 156 00:08:26,361 --> 00:08:30,001 Speaker 2: I don't think you should be ashamed like I do find 157 00:08:30,041 --> 00:08:31,721 Speaker 2: it personally, I think there'd be a lot of people 158 00:08:31,721 --> 00:08:34,401 Speaker 2: out there that what you were doing was a very 159 00:08:34,441 --> 00:08:38,841 Speaker 2: honorable thing. In reference to finding answers about young Will 160 00:08:39,081 --> 00:08:41,441 Speaker 2: Will Will will entire you. 161 00:08:41,481 --> 00:08:45,121 Speaker 1: Got to like there's because I was in the cops 162 00:08:45,161 --> 00:08:47,841 Speaker 1: before the Royal Commission came through. I'm talking New South Wales, 163 00:08:47,921 --> 00:08:49,601 Speaker 1: so I was working in the armhold up squad and 164 00:08:49,601 --> 00:08:50,961 Speaker 1: there's a lot of shame that came out of the 165 00:08:51,001 --> 00:08:54,001 Speaker 1: Royal Commission about stuff that cops are doing. And I 166 00:08:54,041 --> 00:08:59,441 Speaker 1: know in Queensland corruption and things things that came out. 167 00:08:59,521 --> 00:09:03,841 Speaker 1: So I understand what can happen is if you take 168 00:09:03,881 --> 00:09:06,361 Speaker 1: shortcuts or just go one step too far. So I 169 00:09:06,441 --> 00:09:09,961 Speaker 1: understand there become a slippery slide and you lose your 170 00:09:10,001 --> 00:09:12,241 Speaker 1: moral compass. I've seen it because I worked in major 171 00:09:12,281 --> 00:09:14,841 Speaker 1: crime before the Royal Commission came through, so I know 172 00:09:15,081 --> 00:09:17,561 Speaker 1: the impact of it. So what I did on the 173 00:09:17,641 --> 00:09:22,081 Speaker 1: Tyroll investigation, I don't believe that it was a case 174 00:09:22,121 --> 00:09:25,681 Speaker 1: of being corrupt I was doing what I thought needed 175 00:09:25,721 --> 00:09:27,761 Speaker 1: to be done to find out what happened to a 176 00:09:28,001 --> 00:09:30,921 Speaker 1: three year old child disappeared. And I might add still 177 00:09:30,921 --> 00:09:32,761 Speaker 1: to this day, ten years down the track, and this 178 00:09:32,801 --> 00:09:34,601 Speaker 1: is a sad part about it. We still don't know 179 00:09:34,641 --> 00:09:37,761 Speaker 1: what's happened in the wind absolutely and if one thing 180 00:09:37,801 --> 00:09:40,161 Speaker 1: you say, I have no regrets. So one regret I've 181 00:09:40,201 --> 00:09:44,881 Speaker 1: got is that the controversy that I've been caught up 182 00:09:44,921 --> 00:09:48,401 Speaker 1: with the infighting between the police, really our focus should 183 00:09:48,401 --> 00:09:51,521 Speaker 1: be on finding William Tyrell. Like, I'm not apologizing for 184 00:09:51,561 --> 00:09:54,641 Speaker 1: what I've done, but when I say all this in 185 00:09:54,761 --> 00:09:58,121 Speaker 1: fighting or all the games that are going on within 186 00:09:58,161 --> 00:10:00,081 Speaker 1: the police, it's a shame that we're not all just 187 00:10:00,121 --> 00:10:09,121 Speaker 1: heading in the same direction trying to find out what happened. 188 00:10:07,961 --> 00:10:09,921 Speaker 1: You jump