WEBVTT - The Mum fighting Queensland’s puberty blocker ban

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<v Speaker 1>When this Queensland mum's child was five, she realized her

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<v Speaker 1>daughter was trans.

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<v Speaker 2>The first thing that she wanted to do was to

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<v Speaker 2>start wearing girl's shoes to school. Before she did that,

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<v Speaker 2>I spoke with her about you know that people can

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<v Speaker 2>be really cruel and she was likely to be teased,

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<v Speaker 2>which she was, but she was adamant she was going

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<v Speaker 2>to do it, and she was so happy when she

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<v Speaker 2>did it.

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<v Speaker 1>At first, things went well at school, but then the

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<v Speaker 1>bullying started.

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<v Speaker 2>Within about six months, I moved us out of that

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<v Speaker 2>area back to a completely new area.

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<v Speaker 3>She went to a new school. No one knew who

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<v Speaker 3>she was, no one knew her background, no one knew

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<v Speaker 3>she was trans, and she was just with it and mattered.

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<v Speaker 2>Weeks of that move, I had this kid who was

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<v Speaker 2>singing and happy again, and it was the best thing

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<v Speaker 2>I over did.

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<v Speaker 1>But as her daughter got older, the political landscape changed.

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<v Speaker 2>There's been a really obvious escalation in the commentary and

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<v Speaker 2>the actions directed at the trans community. The stuff in

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<v Speaker 2>America is truly frightening. The first Trump presidency was really awful,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's so much worse now. But what's even scarier

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<v Speaker 2>is that we've seen that go from America to We've

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<v Speaker 2>seen it happen in the UK, and we've seen it

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<v Speaker 2>happening in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>So when the Queensland government banned puberty blockers earlier this year,

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<v Speaker 1>she decided to take them to court. I'm Ruby Jones,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're listening to seven AM today one mum on

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<v Speaker 1>her fight to get access to medical care for her

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<v Speaker 1>daughter and all trans children. It's Tuesday, November four So

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<v Speaker 1>I am not going to use your name, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>to protect your daughter's identity. But I thought to begin with,

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<v Speaker 1>can you tell me about your daughter and the medical

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<v Speaker 1>support that you got for her as she transitioned.

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<v Speaker 2>We were lucky that she'd been a patient of the

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<v Speaker 2>gender clinic since she was probably within that first year

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<v Speaker 2>of her identifying as being trans. So we've been with

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<v Speaker 2>the gender clinic now for over six years. So she

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<v Speaker 2>got her diagnosis through the gender clinic and they've been

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<v Speaker 2>monitoring her ever since, periodically a couple of times a year,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's been a long, what I would call very

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<v Speaker 2>measured sort of process. Nothing happens fast. As gender clinic

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<v Speaker 2>we knew she was getting to the stage where puberty

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<v Speaker 2>was likely to be coming up a pediatrician A checked

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<v Speaker 2>and said she wasn't there yet, but then.

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<v Speaker 3>She studied going through some grossports and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>We were told we really had a fairly short window

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<v Speaker 2>to start her on puberty block, as if that was

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<v Speaker 2>the course we were going to take before those more

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<v Speaker 2>permanent changes would start to happen, might break, she might

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<v Speaker 2>start developing facial hair, and that's what she was terrified about.

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<v Speaker 2>She was terrified of her voice getting deeper. She was terrified,

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<v Speaker 2>as she said, growing at the end, because that would

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<v Speaker 2>out her. Once those changes started to happen, it would

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<v Speaker 2>be so obvious that she was trans And the big

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<v Speaker 2>thing for me was I knew with almost absolute certainty

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<v Speaker 2>that if those changes happened, my chances of ever getting

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<v Speaker 2>her to go to school were almost on existent.

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<v Speaker 3>My chances of getting her to.

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<v Speaker 2>Go out into the community that knew her as a

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<v Speaker 2>girl were almost non existent. And I knew what that

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<v Speaker 2>might mean for her mental health because we've been through

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<v Speaker 2>it before when she had been bullied.

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<v Speaker 3>And tell me a bit about the political landscape at

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<v Speaker 3>this time last year.

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<v Speaker 2>It was in October, I think that the current queens

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<v Speaker 2>and government was elected during the election that now a

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<v Speaker 2>premier basically refused to comment on what the government might

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<v Speaker 2>do in relation to the trans community. But we knew

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<v Speaker 2>from the L ANDP state conferences in twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty four, they'd made motions that were accepted

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<v Speaker 2>that they should be banning gender affirming care for children

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<v Speaker 2>and adolescents, including not just in the public system, but

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<v Speaker 2>in the private system as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So in January of this year, which was the same

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<v Speaker 1>day that Donald Trump signed this executive order that threatened

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<v Speaker 1>to criminalize gender affirming care for children, the Queensland government

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<v Speaker 1>followed through on those motions and banned gender affirming care.

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<v Speaker 4>It is the bombshell ban that has left trans teenagers

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<v Speaker 4>in Queensland facing an uncertain future. Now more than one

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<v Speaker 4>hundred experts are making their voices heard calling on this thing.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you feel when you heard that news.

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<v Speaker 3>I was furious.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just absolutely furious with them. Everything that we

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<v Speaker 2>had thought might happen based on them being a very

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<v Speaker 2>conservative government clearly came true. We now know that there

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<v Speaker 2>were something like four hundred and ninety one kids on

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<v Speaker 2>the weight.

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<v Speaker 3>List for the gender clinic. My daughter is not on

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<v Speaker 3>the weight list.

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<v Speaker 2>She was a patient of the clinic, So that means

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<v Speaker 2>that there's more than four hundred and ninety one families

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<v Speaker 2>affected by the ban.

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<v Speaker 3>I asked the Director.

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<v Speaker 2>General for a statement of reasons in relation to his decision,

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<v Speaker 2>and he ignored me and all the parents who are

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<v Speaker 2>for that, and I was forced to take him to

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<v Speaker 2>court to compel him to give me that statement of reasons.

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<v Speaker 3>And when I saw the statement of reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>It was really apparent to me that the decision was

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<v Speaker 2>made by cabinet. He wasn't exercising his decision making powers independently.

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<v Speaker 2>It was also really clear I thought for his statement

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<v Speaker 2>of reasons that he didn't do any proper consultation as

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<v Speaker 2>he was required to do with all the hospitals that

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<v Speaker 2>are affected by the band. So I was determined that

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<v Speaker 2>he should be held accountable and the government should be

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<v Speaker 2>held accountable for that process. And can I say that's

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<v Speaker 2>not a decision that you take widely because I actually

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<v Speaker 2>had to sign a cost agreement when my lawyers felled

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<v Speaker 2>out that if I lost, I might be personally liable

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<v Speaker 2>for the Director General's legal costs, and their estimate was

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred up to one hundred thousand dollars with the

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<v Speaker 2>proviso that it could be more so. That was not

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<v Speaker 2>a decision that anyone takes lightly. But I just felt

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<v Speaker 2>the issue was so important for.

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<v Speaker 3>Our family and for the families.

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<v Speaker 2>Of those other kids affected by the band, that I

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<v Speaker 2>had to do it. The trans community is something like

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<v Speaker 2>one percent of the Israel population.

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<v Speaker 3>And why the hell who about.

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<v Speaker 2>These cabinet ministers that they think that they should make

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<v Speaker 2>medical decisions.

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<v Speaker 3>For my child. I mean, you know what, where's their expertise?

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<v Speaker 3>It's just appalling. I know, my child, my doctors, my

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<v Speaker 3>medical teams be treating my child for a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't need any anybody else's help.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up the Supreme Court judgment and what comes next.

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<v Speaker 5>The mother of a trans teenager argued the Queensland government's

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<v Speaker 5>freeze on puberty blockers and hormone therapies for new adolescent

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<v Speaker 5>patients was unlawful. Supreme Court Judge Peter Callahan found in

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<v Speaker 5>her favor, setting aside.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I mean a big risk taking legal action like

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<v Speaker 1>this financially and obviously with a really big emotional toll too.

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<v Speaker 1>But you won, you won, we did.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yep?

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<v Speaker 1>How how did that feel?

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<v Speaker 2>Ah? Look to be honest, the judge came back so fast.

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<v Speaker 3>I was expecting it.

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<v Speaker 2>With the judicial review, you only have to win on

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<v Speaker 2>one ground, and on the consultation, I thought it was

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<v Speaker 2>so incredibly clear.

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<v Speaker 3>I think after it was over, I was just.

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<v Speaker 2>More relieved than anything else, and I was just desperately tired.

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<v Speaker 2>I was sending up messages to all the other parents

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm connected with and letting them know, and everyone

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<v Speaker 2>was so elated.

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<v Speaker 3>It was, you know, it was wonderful. But then, as

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<v Speaker 3>you know, things changed.

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<v Speaker 1>So what did the judge ultimately find about how the

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<v Speaker 1>government made the decision to ban puberty blockers?

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<v Speaker 5>Just as Callahan found a twenty two minute online meeting

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<v Speaker 5>with Health Services did not amount to consultation. But in

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<v Speaker 5>his written judgment, just as Callahan said, his findings are

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<v Speaker 5>concerned solely with the legal requirements of the Health Directive,

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<v Speaker 5>not any review of the Directive's merits.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what we now know from the trial is that

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<v Speaker 2>that entire decision making process from when the Cabinets submission

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<v Speaker 2>was prepared to when the Health Service Tore Debanning Gender

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<v Speaker 2>firmic Care was issued was fifteen days. That's all it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was done in secrecy. The Cabinet submission wasn't circulated

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<v Speaker 2>around the government for consultation like the normal process. It

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<v Speaker 2>was given only two ministers. And then what we do

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<v Speaker 2>know is that there was not one single person involved

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<v Speaker 2>in preparing the Cabinet submission or in preparing the Health

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<v Speaker 2>Services directive who had any expertise in treating trans young people.

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<v Speaker 2>We also know that they didn't consult anybody with that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of expertise. And I should just mention that's despite

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<v Speaker 2>the faith that there is a multidisciplinary specialist team at

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<v Speaker 2>the gender Clinic literally sitting you know, their offices are

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<v Speaker 2>just across the river from the Office of the Director

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<v Speaker 2>General and the office of the Health Minister and where

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<v Speaker 2>the queens and Cabinet sits. They didn't even bother to

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<v Speaker 2>get any input from the ex ets who are employed

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<v Speaker 2>by the Queensland government.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so just six hours after that court decision came down,

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<v Speaker 1>the Health Minister announced that the government would be reinstating

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<v Speaker 1>the bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the six hours was when he actually

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<v Speaker 2>issued his ministryal directive. Hours before that he said he

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<v Speaker 2>was going to give consideration to doing that, so he

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<v Speaker 2>didn't give it very much consideration at all.

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<v Speaker 3>So I went from sending.

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<v Speaker 2>All these messages to all these parents telling them about

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<v Speaker 2>the great outcome we'd achieved, to then having to tell them, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>he's made an announcement that he's likely in a ban

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<v Speaker 2>at to then make, then messaging them and saying he's

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<v Speaker 2>banned it.

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<v Speaker 3>So that was all in the space of six hours.

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<v Speaker 3>It was. It was just awful.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And how is that possible, given that the court

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<v Speaker 1>had just found that the government had not properly consulted

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<v Speaker 1>with medical experts, for that to be so quickly disregarded.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, the reality is it's a fresh decision

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<v Speaker 2>under a different section of the Act, and the Act

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't that section of the.

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<v Speaker 3>Act doesn't require consultation.

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<v Speaker 2>Having said that, he says he's made the decision in

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<v Speaker 2>the public interest.

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<v Speaker 6>So the government's concerned to make sure that the services

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<v Speaker 6>that are provided are in the best interests of children,

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<v Speaker 6>and we believe that that is a very strong public interest.

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<v Speaker 6>It's important that the government has an overview of what

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<v Speaker 6>is in the best interests of children in this state.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think he has.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that his decision is affected by the same

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<v Speaker 2>deficiency that the Director General has in that not one

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<v Speaker 2>person there was not a single person involved in the

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<v Speaker 2>entire decision making process who had any expertise in treating

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<v Speaker 2>trans young people.

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<v Speaker 3>And what that means is that the.

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<v Speaker 2>Information that was in the cabinets submission, the information that

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<v Speaker 2>cabinet relied on to make its decision to ban, was limited, lacking,

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<v Speaker 2>and defective. So, as far as I'm concerned, his decision

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<v Speaker 2>is equally lacking and defective. This is a decision at

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<v Speaker 2>the highest level. It's not the Health.

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<v Speaker 3>Minister, It's being made by the cabinet.

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<v Speaker 2>They're ideologically driven, they're taking queens.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm back to the dark ages as far as I'm concerned.

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<v Speaker 1>And tell me about what this has meant for you

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<v Speaker 1>personally and for your daughter during the time that you've

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<v Speaker 1>been fighting this case.

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<v Speaker 2>When I told my daughter about the decision, she was

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<v Speaker 2>really upset because her big thing was I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to grow a beard. I don't want to have my

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<v Speaker 2>voice break. And I assured her that I would get

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<v Speaker 2>her into the private system. And I've got to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you that's an incredibly expensive process. The Purty blocker is

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<v Speaker 2>alone are seven hundred and thirty nine dollars every three

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<v Speaker 2>months for the needle, and then you have the doctor's costs.

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<v Speaker 2>On top of that, she's had two treatments now. The

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<v Speaker 2>only way I could afford that was with alone from

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<v Speaker 2>my mother, who's a pension So I feel sorry for

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<v Speaker 2>any parent that doesn't have that subward or isn't able

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<v Speaker 2>to fund it. I know from the other parents in

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<v Speaker 2>only contact with how much it's impacted their kids personally.

0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>I have a friend whose daughter has been suicidal at times,

0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 2>and even though she wasn't affected by the band, the

0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 2>action that the government took, which she saw is so unfair,

0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.360
<v Speaker 2>sent her into a suicidal spiral. Now they're in a

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 2>situation where they have to have eyes on her at

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.040
<v Speaker 2>all times. They've even considered whether they should take the

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.840
<v Speaker 2>bedroom door of the hinges just so that she can't

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 2>barricade herself in there. So anybody that dismisses the potential

0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:48.079
<v Speaker 2>impact on kids' mental health is seriously, seriously wrong.

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 1>And so what do you plan to do now? Because

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.320
<v Speaker 1>the band will continue? Do you plan to continue trying

0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>to fight it?

0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:55.720
<v Speaker 3>Yep?

0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:01.199
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, we have to continue the fight and it'll be overturned.

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 2>And I'm actually hoping that if someone does, if someone

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>takes him to court, and that might be me if

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 2>someone takes him to court, I'm hoping he'll actually have

0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 2>the courage to turn up and give evidence. Because the

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Director General Queens and Health didn't bother to come to court.

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 2>He sent some public servants to tell.

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:21.880
<v Speaker 3>Us about his decision making process.

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I have been so incredibly lucky that the LGBTI Legal

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Service has acted pro bono for me.

0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 3>They are a tiny little legal service and they've done

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 3>it on the witherm oily rag.

0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 2>I have been incredibly lucky that three barristers, including a

0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.920
<v Speaker 2>King's counsel, have acted for.

0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 3>Us pro bono. So I haven't had any costs because

0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 3>imagine this is what the government relies on.

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 2>They know how expensive it is to take legal action

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 2>against them.

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.080
<v Speaker 3>You know, it is truly a day versus the life battle.

0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you so much for speaking to me about

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 1>all of this today.

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, Optus didn't tell the public that

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 1>its triple zero outage had led to three deaths for

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 1>almost a day after finding out. A Senate inquiry has

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 1>revealed senior leadership also held off on informing the government

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 1>while it held meetings and prepared talking points. The timeline

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 1>presented to the Senate showed OPTIS staff knew about the

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 1>deaths on Thursday night. Executives, including the CEO you by

0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Friday morning, for the Communications Minister was not told until

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 1>that afternoon. OPTIS Chief Executive Stephen Rue said he was

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 1>deeply sorry, but blamed the decisions on those below him.

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>And Andrew mount Batton windsor formally Prince Andrew, should be

0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 1>removed from the line of succession that would allow him

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 1>to become the King of the Commonwealth. According to Independent

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 1>MP Kate Cheney, King Charles's younger brother was stripped of

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.360
<v Speaker 1>his titles last week over his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein,

0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>but experts say Australia and other Commonwealth countries would require

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 1>laws to ensure that he doesn't remain an heir to

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 1>the throne. Cheney says Anthony Abernezi should raise the issue

0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 1>with the British Prime Minister Kirs Starmer. I'm Ruby Jones.

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 1>This is seven am. Thanks for listening.