WEBVTT - When a cop meets a bikie in prison: Adam Smith Pt.2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 Detective see a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.080 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.320 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:48.640 Welcome back to part two of my chat with former 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.560 bikey and maximum security in Adam Smith. In part one, 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.319 we spoke about his early life, how I met him 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.800 in prison, his time as a senior member of an 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:02.200 outlaw motorcycle gang, and he's experiences in gold and supermax prison. 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:05.480 In part two, we speak about how a change of 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.360 prisons changed his outlook on life and what he is 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:13.199 doing since he was released from prison last year. Adam Smith. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.319 Welcome back to I Catch Killers. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:16.680 How you doing good? 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:17.679 Good to have you back. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:18.800 Be mate. 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.160 Speaking the other day, I said, what are you doing 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.800 with yourself? And you called yourself an artist. Yes, so 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:31.120 that's a that's a big jump from violent prisoner in 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:33.800 so violent that they had to be put in the 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.399 supermax in Golden what's the art that you're into? Tell 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:38.040 us about that? 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.520 So art? Was it come across? 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.920 I guess you could say in the supermax when I 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.280 finally got a pen and paper. I love to tell 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.600 the story that I learned to the art scribe and 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:52.320 my finger I was in the war, but that's not true. 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.160 I used to just sketch a little bit, just a 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.200 doodle and that sort of I guess that kind of 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:01.000 created something and then I didn't touch on it. But 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.840 when I went to Macquarie, it's some really good artists. 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.640 Like when I say really good, I mean really really 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:07.080 really good. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:12.679 I've been to that the center there in the prison. Yeah, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:14.120 there are some great pieces of art. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.960 So I spent a lot of time with I guess, 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.680 two of the best artists, but not associating around art. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.799 We live together in a pod, you know. Yeah, Now 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.280 these two guys in particular, they could have gone through 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.680 and entered into the Archer bulb. They actually paved the 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.919 way sort of for art programs, I guess, in the 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.960 jail system. One of them in particular, who you met, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.440 Bruce Harrison. Things happened in jail, and they're out of 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.920 people's control. He was destined to go and do the 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.200 last of his sentence teaching an art program. I think 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.600 it might have been at Long Bay, but that changed. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.440 But I had the, I guess, fortunate luck of being 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.080 able to watch these guys paint every day. I was 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:01.320 convinced to start. 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:01.799 Well. 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:03.760 First of all, I was convinced to try and join 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.520 their art class. But I still had so much cork. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:11.120 My cork ran for over four years, you know. And 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.880 when I started drawing, they were decent drawings. When I 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.040 look back on them, they're not so decent, but at 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.520 the time that yeah. And when I showed when I 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.800 showed them, it was like, well, you should start painting. 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.840 Did you Did you have a natural aptitude for art? 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.440 Did you delve into it before you went to prison? 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.639 When I was younger, like, I was never really good 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:34.000 at it. My brother was very good at. 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.600 Doing graffiti, like we set up big boards out in 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.480 the backyard at mum and Dad's and little kids, and 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.440 it was never any good. But I never had a 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.200 thought about being an artist. But I played guitar when 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.400 I was younger, and I was pretty pretty good at 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.800 it too, and so I was always there was an 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.360 artistic I just didn't realize it was. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.400 You hadn't developed it or it hadn't come. 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:56.920 Out, and I still don't know how I do it. 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.560 Okay, well we'll talk about that. But we we left 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.920 you in part one. You're still in super Max and 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.920 now we're talking about your art. But I'm just going 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.080 to I can do this. I suppose it's of course, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.560 of course it's a podcast, But have a look at 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.640 that drawing that you've done. I spotted it straight away 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.920 when I walk in. You bought it in It's Malcolm X. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.360 Yeah likeness an oil painting of malcom X. Yeah. 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.320 Yeah, Well that's a good example of your art. So 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.479 we'll talk more about that. But I wanted to show people, 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.719 and if those that are listening that's showing, it doesn't 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.080 really help. But what we've got here is a portrait 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.000 that to me, it looked like a photograph of Malcolm X. 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.200 We'll talk about that a little bit later, but I just. 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:41.919 Thought i'd show people, Yeah, thank you. 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.000 Just before we get in the Macquarie I just want 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.080 to rehash, and I think we touched on it, that 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.480 super Max has been renovated and there was sixty prisoners 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.479 in super Max. Twenty had to get relocated and you 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:01.080 got relocated to Macquarie Correctional Center is up near Dabba. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:01.880 That's right. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.640 Macquarie Correctional Center is a new way of handling prisons 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.719 and that was the reason that I was in prison 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.520 when out past First Cross to have a look at 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.960 the way that they're treating prisoners. It's completely different to 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:22.280 what I would call the traditional tell us about tell 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.839 us about what you found when you walked into there. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.560 So you've gone from Golden the Yard in Golburen, which 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.640 was a pretty volatile place, lots of violence, lots of yeah, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.680 lots of stuff went down there. You got kicked out 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.840 of there into Supermax and where you're living in a 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:44.160 cell on your own and very limited communication to be 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.120 dropped in Macquarie Center. Talk us through that whole process. 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:48.360 Yeah, no worry, Jerry. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.520 So so they just finished booting the MPU, which was 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.800 the whole segregation inmates. So that was forty beds that 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:57.919 they had in there. So, like I said, there were 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.520 sixty inmates, and so that twenty of us had to 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.840 go around the state into segregation. What they basically call it, 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.320 they call it rotation. So if you get either segregation 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.760 for a certain amount of time or something they call 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.920 seventy eight A, which is housing, which means they can't 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.880 house you for certain reasons, so you'll go onto a rotation. 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.279 So I landed at Macquarie. You only really meant to 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.599 stay at a certain location for a certain amount of time. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.080 I don't know how or why, but I ended up staying. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.880 I think I was well, I think I can't remember exactly, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.200 but it was a few months. And I was never 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.080 meant to go up. I was never meant to go 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.400 out into the main. It wasn't for gang members. It 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.080 was meant to be for inmates that wanted to basically 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:46.080 toe the line and develop and rehabilitate, and they put 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.680 gang members off the table. Now, my experience with correctional 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:55.400 officers was pretty much all bad. There was a certain 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.839 level of I guess respect that I was given by 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.960 certain offices in different jails, but there was never ever 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.479 a level of being treated with respect, yeah, or given 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:13.120 your dignity mind that. So when I went to mcclarie, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.680 I was obviously it was a big deal. So they 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.680 had all the squad and because it's on the same 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.160 property as Wellington Jail, which is very much similar to 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.120 Goldban or silver Water. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.400 Or something in the traditional sense of a prison, and. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.360 It's on the same property, so I'm assuming that they 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.280 must have had some of the squad from there as 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.720 we will come. And at the end of this time, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.360 you can imagine what I've just been through. The first 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:37.920 thing that I asked when I got off the tracks, 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.840 so I get a TV? And they said yes, And 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.200 I sat down on the end of the bed for 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.560 about probably eight hours watching kids shows. I couldn't believe 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:46.200 my eyes, you. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.280 Know, just to get some form of stimulation, fl. 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.680 Like I was free. That's how I felt, right. I 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.840 was still very unsure of my future in jail at 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:56.280 this point. 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.760 So how far into sixty sentence that you've served at this. 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:04.800 Stage, maybe about so close to a year, right, So 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.680 I still had no I still had no idea what 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.360 was happening with my court. I ended up fighting another 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.840 three trials after my After my court, they just kept 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:15.440 trying to get me and get me, but I beat 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:21.240 those trials. Brad Peebles, who's who was the governor of 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.240 mcclorie at the time. He went above and beyond to 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.520 give inmates an opportunity, and I think it probably could 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.320 have cost him his career in doing it if it 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.640 had gone wrong. It was only ever meant to be 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.400 an experiment. I don't know, did you know that? 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.840 Yeah, I know initially there was. It was bored in 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.280 years ago and then then stopped and the Brad peoples 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.840 very much promoted it and pushed it. And it's not 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:52.120 this similar to like a Norwegian way of handling prisoners. 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.640 Just so our listeners understand what we're talking about here, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:01.240 your maximum security prisoner, and yeah, max security prisoners are 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.719 praying to violence and you keep some tight control on them, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.560 a lot of lockdowns, you spend a lot of time 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.960 in your cell super macs, you spend an extremely large 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.720 amount of time in your cell, and you're not allowed 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:14.800 to mix with other inmates. So you've gone from that 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.439 environment into what they had at Macquarie Correctional Center where 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.600 they had dorms with twenty five maximum security prisoners in there. 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.559 That's when when I walked into the dorm, I thought 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.200 that would be a bloodbath. They're having twenty five of 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.520 you all in there, just all locked away, access to 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.720 twenty five other other inmates. Yeah, but you tell the 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:41.400 story because I was observing, and how did you feel 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.439 when you were given that much, well, basically freedom within 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.600 a prison as much as a freedom that you get. 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.600 Yeah, yeah, definitely. There was no certainty of my stay 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.120 at Macquarie. I was online, I was told that it 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:56.480 was made very clear to me as soon as I 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:02.199 got there. Spending my time in supermax. This was massively 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:08.040 concerning because their segregation units at Macquarie, the way I 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.680 described it at the time, was an F one motel 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:12.520 room compared. 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.120 To what from what you came to from. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.640 So you have your dignity, you have you have you 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.360 have room, you have a massive bench that you can 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.000 work on, you have toilet, chaw, it's all clean, the 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.000 same size as your little yard out the back. And 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:32.760 this is in segregation, and you're treated well when you're 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.800 down there as long as you respect, you give me 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.280 like so it's reciprocated. 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.240 Okay, so this is the segregation section we've been Macquarie 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.120 Correctional Center. What you described describing there, Yes, so distinct 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.559 from the dorms where the general population got. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:51.560 That's exactly right. So obviously Brad Peebles to do what 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.880 he did, he had to have a great team. Now 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.920 I'm sure that team consisted of a lot more people 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.600 than I know of. Yeah, but he had Bywater, who 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:07.600 is a stand up guy who has a reputation too 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.160 for being a tough guy throughout his So he I 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.240 think he was a boss of a squad. And this 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.920 guy is an absolute gentleman. We'll have nothing but respect 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.839 for him and the way that he conducts himself as 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.040 an officer and the way that he treats inmates, hard 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:31.000 but fair. I'd say he had Brett Lee's and you 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:32.440 obviously met Brett Lee. 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:33.600 So he's a character. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:35.000 Well he's a character so or. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.440 Just so the viewers can understand, this is the guy 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.720 that went on to become the governor at the prison 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.440 after Brad Peebles, he had gone on to another project. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:51.280 He's a psychologist and he runs with that every day. Okay, So, 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.720 although there's always a certain amount of humor around whatever's 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.200 coming out of his mouth, every word counts. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.280 That's a fair assessment. 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.000 And he does that for a reason obviously, and there's 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.640 only very few people that can pick up on that. 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.240 So he's another one that has gone above and beyond 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.119 to try and do things for certain inmates. Myself definitely. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.240 So with these guys in your corner, and then you 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.480 have the intel side, which is run by a couple 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:23.040 of officers. 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:24.760 So you've got. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:30.520 Stanger Andrew Stinger, absolute absolute, dead set, stand up guy. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:36.320 This guy is very very smart, very calculated, but very fair. 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:37.000 Yeah. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.280 So these guys you can understand, they run the intel, 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.800 they can they know what's going on. Yeah, best intel 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.719 in Australia and jail is that Macquarie. And then you've 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.560 got standing there. Those two work together, but they maintain 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.120 the respect of the inmates. I guess that actually matter 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:55.360 to make him the system work. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:55.720 You give me. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.360 I'm taking on what you've what you're saying here, because 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.080 it's unusual for a prisoner to be talking about coreactive services. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.800 Normally it's screws and the Blue and the Green don't 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:11.880 mix traditional prisons. What I saw at Quarry Centa was 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.000 that the respects went both ways. Yeah, and it wasn't 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:20.000 sort of false respect. That was the creative services officers 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.520 that I saw treated the prisoners with respect and the 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.640 prisoners were treating the creative services officers with respect. And 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.440 it was different to any jail I had been in, 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.600 and the whole vibe felt felt different. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:33.080 Yeah. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.760 So this, this creates a little bit of an issue 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.520 in the jail environment because then you have people that 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.679 want to be in this shale, but then they want 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.839 to make out like their mister gangster this that, and 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.800 they don't want to respect the officers, but they actually do, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.319 but they just make out. So that creates a little 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.360 bit of a little bit of an issue. So you've 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.320 got to sort of put that aside and just do 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.280 your own thing, you know. Like I said, jail politics 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.120 are a funny thing. Always need to be able to 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.080 make sure that you can walk into a jail yard 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.040 somewhere because you might end up there. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.880 Well, you said to me the other day that when 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.520 the prisoners that were talking to me were the ones 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.280 that could hold their head up and didn't need to 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.800 they weren't worried what other people thought. And I got 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.360 to say, there was some hard cases in there in 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.640 terms of if I look at I know their reputation, 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.280 I had dealings, I know what they've done and who 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.920 they are, and they'd stand up in any jail, yeah, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.680 for sure. But in this jail their behavior was changed 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:36.800 and instead of bridging up, they were communicating and talking. 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.720 And problem solvers, you know. So there's a fair fuel 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:40.880 of that. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.520 It would always have to go out to diffuse something 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.880 or just say, for instance, the jail started getting a 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.960 little bit violent, they'd call a lot of us down 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:51.920 to talk to us and say we need this to change. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.680 So then we would say, well what can you do 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.000 for us? Like this is the way that we're working here, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:57.080 we're working with each other. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:58.320 So we saw a. 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.600 Barter it down, you know, and then we back and 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:02.680 we'd pull the pod in and say, well, this is 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.440 what's going to happen because the jarl needs to be 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.560 like this for the next few weeks, and there we'd 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:07.120 make it happen. 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.200 You know, how long did it take you to get 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.120 moved into a pod? 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:12.200 Okay? 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.440 So, like I said, I was never really gone, but 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.160 they kept coming in saying to me, or if you 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.560 want to sign your intel off, we'll let you stay here, 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:21.720 and I just thought it was a ja I thought 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.080 it was a stitch up. I thought I'd trying to 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.480 set me up to make it harder for me. Anyway, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.720 I ended up doing this. At the time, I was 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.960 not leaving any club, and. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.240 That was what we're talking here. You've got to sign 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:42.800 off any affiliation with the club because of gain coup 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:44.400 in Macquarie. 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.280 Center, so anyone that comes there has to do that 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:52.360 right now. CIG Central Intelligence Group, So for people like myself, 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.960 you're on their radar immediately anyway. So they're the ones 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.280 that are responsible for the function functioning of New South Wales. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.880 I'm not sure if it's Asrail or that's New South Wales. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:02.760 But they said to. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.080 Me, you're a liar. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.720 Why you're there, They said, basically brought people to take 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.960 a chance on you. Why you're there, that's fine, But 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.480 when you're fuck up your ours and you're gone straight 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:15.480 back to where you come from. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:16.400 Okay. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:17.800 So I had that in the back of my mind 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.240 the whole time, and then they just slowly integrated me 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:22.440 to the pod. They didn't just put me out the 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.240 vis let me out at times and integrate with people slowly. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.680 But the way you describe it, Adam, it's like releasing 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:31.800 the line back in. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.560 The Yeah, and it completely wasn't the case, you know. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.240 Yeah, but that's they let you in, they test Okay, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.040 you spent a half an hour in there, there was 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:45.440 no trouble, come back out, okay. So that process how long? 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:46.720 How long did it take. 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:49.040 That process? 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.240 I guess it probably lasted around two to three weeks, 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.440 And right up until the point when I walked into 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.280 the pod with my trolling, I still didn't believe it. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.760 You know, you didn't believe you'd be released, or didn't 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.600 believe in the environment that you'd be. 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.239 No, I didn't believe that. I didn't believe that what 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.600 was being said was true. Jail is a place where 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.439 you be told many different things from someone that you 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.640 will believe that should be telling you what you meant 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.480 to hear. But I don't say from an officer or 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.600 a person of a certain level. But it's not the case. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:25.479 You know, it's a very dark and distorted place, and 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.240 you're never safe anywhere, like meaning that your position in 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.640 any jlity is never Someone can just put that tick 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.560 into the computer and you're on a truck. And my 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.439 circumstances were I was like, what's it going to take nothing? 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.080 It's going to take nothing. And so I had certain 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.120 people on my side, but the majority of the officers 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.200 and that were like, you're letting this guy hit into 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.520 our prison, you know anyway, So then I come out 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.080 of the present slowly have a time. I mean, it 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.359 took the whole time for a lot of them. I 0:17:58.359 --> 0:17:59.880 think maybe they just thought I was full of shit. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.960 I've always been very respectful. 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.120 And what do you think that the naysay is going 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.119 through their mind? He's just taking the piss out of us. 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.320 He'll get in there and when he's got an issue, 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.280 he's going to light someone up and yeah, yeah, and 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.080 then we'll send him back. So that would have been 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:20.240 and given you history, it's a reasonable for him to 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.040 have is just bullshitting to us, and let me in 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.560 the dorm and when I do create havoc, it's going 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.080 to be a big one. Then you can ship me 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.320 back to super Max. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.120 Yeah, And I guess you know, I understand why they 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:37.199 think that, because, to be honest, I always said to 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.240 myself that and do whatever I can to make sure 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:41.600 that I keep my hands to myself. 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:43.680 But if someone puts their hands on me. Well, that's 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:44.880 different story, you know. 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.080 And the problem that there was it was either going 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.080 to be nothing or six o'clock New Style, Do. 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:51.520 You get me? 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.800 And that's not what I want to do though, and 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.960 that's not what anyone wants say. I had, like, I 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:58.240 worked on myself very hard. 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.920 You know what stage was your mindset changing that, Hey, 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:03.920 I want to turn my life around. Was it when 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.600 you saw what was on offer at Macquarie Center. Was 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.240 that something that changed? What was the thing that. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:11.679 So I just want to make something very clear. So 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.879 I've just sat here and you give a lot of 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:18.239 officers a good rap, a lot of correctional officers. The 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.280 start of this change does not start with an inmate. 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.639 And if anyone has the expectations that that's the case, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:26.440 you're completely wrong. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:27.640 And I can explain why. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:27.880 Yeah. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.879 So we come from a place where your battle is 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.840 stay alive. There's Westpac. I only got the spine out 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.600 of their daily So then I come to Macquarie, where 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.000 there's where you're expected to toe this certain line. Right, 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.120 but you're still in the same environment where you're dealing 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.840 with the inmates, and. 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.240 You've crossed bathro with these inmates. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.199 You might have gone the water with its inmate at 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.439 some stage two and you're both there trying to do 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:58.200 the right thing. Now for an officer to say get 0:19:58.240 --> 0:19:59.920 a to you in front of the boys and expect 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.680 you just say good a back after you've just got 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:03.840