Speaker 1: Today, I can confirm that at the eightieth Session of
Speaker 1: the United Nations General Assembly in September, Australia will recognize
Speaker 1: the state of Palestine.
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Alberanesi has announced that from next month,
Speaker 2: Australia will recognize a Palestinian state, alongside allies including the UK,
Speaker 2: Canada and France. Albanzi claims that doing so would move
Speaker 2: the Middle East back toward a two state solution.
Speaker 1: A two state solution is humanity's best hope to break
Speaker 1: the cycle of violence in the Middle East and to
Speaker 1: bring an end to the conflict, suffering and starvation in Gaza.
Speaker 2: But as Israel ramps up its military campaign in Gaza
Speaker 2: once again, what difference does recognition really make? I'm Ruby
Speaker 2: Jones and you're listening to seven AM today contributing editor
Speaker 2: of the New Daalie Amy Ramikuz on what the international
Speaker 2: community is trying to achieve and whether it's too late.
Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, August twelfth. Amy, We've just heard the Prime
Speaker 2: Minister Anthony Abernezi announce that Australia will recognize a Palestinian state.
Speaker 2: So what does that actually mean in practical terms? It's
Speaker 2: largely symbolic. It is not going to do anything to
Speaker 2: end the military offensive that Israel is carrying out in Gaza.
Speaker 2: It's not going to do anything to start the flow
Speaker 2: of aid. It's not going to be able to stop
Speaker 2: Israel or pressure.
Speaker 3: Them into doing anything that Israel doesn't want to do,
Speaker 3: particularly why the United States remains so strongly allied with
Speaker 3: Israel in this campaign. What it will do, though, is
Speaker 3: it does isolate Benjamin Ettanyahu within the international community. It
Speaker 3: also sets up stronger diplomatic relations with the Palestinian Authority,
Speaker 3: which is who every Western government is talking about when
Speaker 3: they talk about recognizing Palestine. They're talking about the Palestinian Authority,
Speaker 3: which is in the West Bank, and the Palestinian Authority
Speaker 3: has already agreed to these preconditions to recognition.
Speaker 1: The Palestinian Authority has reaffirmed it recognizes Israel's right to
Speaker 1: exist in peace and security. It has committed to demilitarize
Speaker 1: and to hold general elections. It has pledged to abolish
Speaker 1: the system of payments to the families of prisoners and martyrs,
Speaker 1: and promised broader reform of governance, financial transparency in the
Speaker 1: education system, including international oversight to guard against the incitement
Speaker 1: of violence and hatred. These detailed and significant commitments have
Speaker 1: been given even greater weight by the Arab leagues unprecedented
Speaker 1: demand for Hamas to end it to rule in Gaza
Speaker 1: and surrender its weapons to the Palestinian authority.
Speaker 3: So every Western country is already speaking as if the
Speaker 3: Palestinian Authority is going to be the authority for all
Speaker 3: of Palestine, including Gaza. So it strengthens those diplomatic relations.
Speaker 3: It probably also will help the Palestinian authority rebuild to
Speaker 3: a place where they do have authority because they will
Speaker 3: have Western support in this.
Speaker 2: And we've had many times in the lead up to
Speaker 2: this announcement the criticism that recognizing Palestine now ultimately rewards
Speaker 2: the mus for their actions on October seven. So how
Speaker 2: is the Australian government responding to that claim?
Speaker 3: What's your answer to that assertion?
Speaker 1: Har Mass don't support two states. A mass support one state.
Speaker 1: In their words, from the River to the Sea, A
Speaker 1: mass do not support recognizing the right of Israel to exist.
Speaker 1: This is an opportunity to isolate Hamas that has been
Speaker 1: forged by the very clear statements of the Palestinian Authority
Speaker 1: on June ten and the very clear statements of the
Speaker 1: Arab loke.
Speaker 3: At this point, Australia, like most of the Western world,
Speaker 3: is talking about establishing relations with the Palestinian authority, which
Speaker 3: is separate to Hamas, and they're still saying Hamas is
Speaker 3: not going to be part of any further negotiations. I mean, realistically,
Speaker 3: it is not for any Western government to say how
Speaker 3: the Palestinians form government. It's for the Palestinians to decide
Speaker 3: who forms their government, and then it is for the
Speaker 3: countries to work out how they have those relations with
Speaker 3: you know, that government down the track. We do it
Speaker 3: with several nations that we don't have an exact agreement
Speaker 3: on or we have ideological opposition to, and it will
Speaker 3: be no different here. At this point. It's about, i suppose,
Speaker 3: diplomatically trying to say, well, we're not going to negotiate
Speaker 3: with terrorists, but it is international law that we cannot
Speaker 3: install a government in Palestine. That is for the Palestinians
Speaker 3: to do so. At the moment, I think we're talking
Speaker 3: a big game, but the future is not ours to declare.
Speaker 2: Nevertheless, though we have had the ab and easy say
Speaker 2: that you know, as you've mentioned, there'll be no role
Speaker 2: for Hamas in a Palestinian state, and that the plan
Speaker 2: is for the Palestinian authority to be in charge. So
Speaker 2: I just wanted to ask what state the Palestinian authority
Speaker 2: is in and whether it's realistic that they would be
Speaker 2: ready to govern.
Speaker 3: I think that's why the recognition from the Western countries
Speaker 3: at this point is so important. There's so far to
Speaker 3: go in this. I mean, the Palestinian authority will need
Speaker 3: quite a bit of help in terms of the direction
Speaker 3: that it chooses to go. There is going to be
Speaker 3: borders that need to be decided on, There's going to
Speaker 3: be you know, what role does Israel play in establishing
Speaker 3: these two states? And there's also the question of what
Speaker 3: is left of Gaza in terms of there actually being
Speaker 3: a second state here, what is left of Palestine, what
Speaker 3: is the right of return? All of these other questions
Speaker 3: that have not yet been reckoned with. There are no
Speaker 3: answers for from the Western community because at the moment,
Speaker 3: the end goal is to try and pressure Israel into
Speaker 3: stopping its military assault on Gaza. That right now is
Speaker 3: the goal of all the Western countries that have decided
Speaker 3: to finally recognize a Palestinian state. But in terms of
Speaker 3: what it means for Palestinians. It's really difficult to say,
Speaker 3: because it's not going to stop anything, and every country
Speaker 3: that has decided to recognize Palestine now has to follow
Speaker 3: through in concrete action to ensure that there is a
Speaker 3: Palestine left to recognize.
Speaker 2: Coming up, what recognizing Palestine means for Australia's relationship with
Speaker 2: Israel and the United States.
Speaker 4: If there is a concern on Australia's part about international
Speaker 4: law being violated here, I'm just wondering what further steps
Speaker 4: might be taken here. Germany is going to block or
Speaker 4: suspend arm sales to Israel that could be used in Gaza.
Speaker 4: What about the armored steel and the F thirty five
Speaker 4: components that Australia contributes.
Speaker 3: Would they be blocked?
Speaker 5: Oh, well, let's be clear, we don't supply weapons to Israel.
Speaker 4: The armed steel and the F thirty five components is
Speaker 4: what I'm asking about.
Speaker 2: The Australian government has also been criticized for selling weapon
Speaker 2: pats to Israel. So would recognition trigger any change or
Speaker 2: any review of that arrangement.
Speaker 3: Well, it probably already should have under international law. And
Speaker 3: if this ever gets to the Hague, which many believe
Speaker 3: that it eventually will. Australia, like all nations in the
Speaker 3: F thirty five supply chain, will have a case to answer.
Speaker 3: The answer from the Isustralian government is that we're not
Speaker 3: directly supplying weapons parts.
Speaker 5: Well, we're in F thirty five country and we have
Speaker 5: been that for a couple of decades, and that is
Speaker 5: a multilateral arrangement with supply chains that are organized by
Speaker 5: Lockheed Martin in the United States and have multiple supplies
Speaker 5: in respect of all of those supply chains. So really
Speaker 5: that is a very different question, and we are a
Speaker 5: part of that process.
Speaker 3: We're just supplying part non lethal parts that end up
Speaker 3: in these lethal planes that then end up dropping bombs
Speaker 3: on guars and civilians. It could instigate a review, but
Speaker 3: again this is going to depend on how much pressure
Speaker 3: is applied to Israel. And the big sticking point here
Speaker 3: is the United States. The United States has shown no
Speaker 3: sign that it will be recognizing Palestine, that it's going
Speaker 3: to stop supplying arms to Israel, or indeed that it's
Speaker 3: going to support any of this international push to try
Speaker 3: to pressure Israel into complying with international law. So it
Speaker 3: really is going to depend on how the United States
Speaker 3: acts here, how much pressure is put on the United
Speaker 3: States to start complying with its own international obligations, and
Speaker 3: how willing Australia is going to be as being part
Speaker 3: of that international pressure.
Speaker 2: And we know that Penny Will has already spoken to
Speaker 2: Secretary of State Marco Rubio. So what do you think
Speaker 2: that this move of recognizing a Palestinian state will mean
Speaker 2: for our relationship with the US as it already caused tension.
Speaker 3: It has already caused tension, but I think that was
Speaker 3: coming regardless of whether or not Australia took this step
Speaker 3: now next week, last week, it didn't matter.
Speaker 6: On the Ruvio phone call, did you get any assurances
Speaker 6: that our decision on this will not affect the rest
Speaker 6: of the biolateral relationship with the US given the Trump
Speaker 6: administration's opposition, You're not expecting any blowback on things like
Speaker 6: trade or orcus or anything else.
Speaker 7: We speak first and we make our sovereign decisions. But
Speaker 7: you will see from the reader. I think that the
Speaker 7: State Department have issued since the call. We spoke about
Speaker 7: a range of batterms, including the Indo Pacific. Insecurity in
Speaker 7: the Indo Pacific.
Speaker 3: It was interesting that the readout that the White House
Speaker 3: provided of that phone call, there was only a couple
Speaker 3: of lines and it essentially just said that it would
Speaker 3: discuss the Middle East as well as the strategic partnerships
Speaker 3: that Australia has throughout the Pacific. And I think that
Speaker 3: that is the line that Penny Wong is trying to
Speaker 3: speak to is that we're going to disagree on this,
Speaker 3: but our allyship is still quite tight when it comes
Speaker 3: to our region. We're just going to disagree over how
Speaker 3: to handle the Middle East.
Speaker 2: And Benjamin Netanya who has said that recognition by Australia
Speaker 2: would be shameful, and these comments come off the back
Speaker 2: of Israel's Foreign minister calling Albneazi a liar for saying
Speaker 2: that aid was being restricted from coming into Gaza. So
Speaker 2: how is the Australian government attempting to navigate its relationship
Speaker 2: with Israel in this moment.
Speaker 3: I think that there's been a lot of work that
Speaker 3: the Australian government has put in to keep Israel's government
Speaker 3: in the loop of where Australia is thinking on this.
Speaker 3: There has been a lot of diplomatic pressure applied, and
Speaker 3: of course we've also seen the Australian government seek to
Speaker 3: soothe Israel at different times by saying we are addressing
Speaker 3: anti Semitism in Australia, we are reacting to that. What
Speaker 3: we are standing for is international law and this has
Speaker 3: all very much been couched in these diplomatic terms that
Speaker 3: Australia is upholding international law obligations and humanitarian law obligations.
Speaker 3: Australia didn't really start really strengthening its language until we
Speaker 3: saw the United Kingdom and Canada and parts of the
Speaker 3: U start to really toughen up their stance against Israel.
Speaker 3: And that started when the images of the Stage five
Speaker 3: malnutrition started coming through from Palestinian journalists, when they started
Speaker 3: showing the real effects of a deliberate starvation campaign on
Speaker 3: a civilian population. And that's when we saw the international
Speaker 3: community really start to step up. So Australia has been
Speaker 3: able to toughen its language, but of course I think
Speaker 3: we also need to recognize the Australian people and the
Speaker 3: protesters and that giant display in Sydney not so long ago.
Speaker 3: It's no surprise that the Australian government has been pressured
Speaker 3: into moving perhaps faster than they anticipated, and it's because
Speaker 3: of the groundswell of support from Australian people who said.
Speaker 2: Enough, why and me, thank you so much for via Tan.
Speaker 8: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Also in the news today, a journalist described as one
Speaker 2: of Al Jazeera's most recognizable faces reporting from Gaza has
Speaker 2: been killed alongside four colleagues in an Israeli air strike.
Speaker 2: Anas Al Sharif, who was twenty eight, was among a
Speaker 2: group of Al Jazeera's staff who died in a strike
Speaker 2: on a tent near Schifa Hospital in Gaza City on Sunday.
Speaker 2: According to Gaza officials and Al Jazeera, and electric car
Speaker 2: drivers could be hit with a road tax, with federal
Speaker 2: MP Tanya Plibersek framing it a sensible move as more
Speaker 2: people switch to evs. The comments come ahead of the
Speaker 2: federal government's Productivity roundtable next week. I'm Ruby Jones. This
Speaker 2: is seven am. See you tomorrow.