Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never
Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: In part two of my chat with former bikey Owen Turnbull,
Speaker 1: we get into the heavy stuff about being a biking
Speaker 1: There is a price to pay, and Owen talks about
Speaker 1: that price. He talks about how his home was firebombed
Speaker 1: and the time he shot in his home not once
Speaker 1: but twice, going to prison and deciding this is not
Speaker 1: the life for him. We also talk about what he
Speaker 1: is hoping to achieve by educating young men about the
Speaker 1: pitfalls of going down the path he did. Oh and turnbull,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part two.
Speaker 2: Can you thank you?
Speaker 1: I catch killers? Okay, it's a pleasure. We talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about the chaos of your life and how
Speaker 1: you end up in Bikis and the rebels and the nomads,
Speaker 1: and your role as sergeant at arms. That bought a
Speaker 1: bit of heat heat down on you. That lifestyle what
Speaker 1: I want to talk about now, because it's pretty Yeah,
Speaker 1: I won't even say current because it seems to go
Speaker 1: on all the time, but drive by shootings that happened,
Speaker 1: that happen on a regular basis, and part of the
Speaker 1: gang war. We talked in part one how they can
Speaker 1: be just over some minor.
Speaker 2: Little social media post.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something as simple as that. Sometimes there's not an
Speaker 1: underlying major reason for it. That just people make stupid decisions.
Speaker 1: But I got to say, from my observation, I think
Speaker 1: most people when they look at look at drive by shootings,
Speaker 1: it's cow this isn't it. Yeah, Like it doesn't take
Speaker 1: a tough guy to drive past the place and spray
Speaker 1: some bullets.
Speaker 2: Bullets in there, fortunately in my Okay, So they got
Speaker 2: out of the car and did.
Speaker 1: It Yeah, Well, let's I want to talk in detail
Speaker 1: because there's not many people that have had their houses
Speaker 1: shot up and set a light. So break it down.
Speaker 1: When was the first time your place was.
Speaker 2: Fire and you were shot in March a little bit
Speaker 2: about ten thirty at night?
Speaker 1: Okay? And what what was your position in the Club
Speaker 1: of the Nomads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately like the other club that will be with
Speaker 2: new where I was because I was friends with them
Speaker 2: at one point.
Speaker 1: So and who are you living there with?
Speaker 2: Your dad? Was doing there? Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And so what you're You're at home.
Speaker 2: At home mum and Daddy's house. Yeah, Mum was away
Speaker 2: at the time. And what happened, well about ten thirty
Speaker 2: at night watching the movie and he's a big, big wolf,
Speaker 2: like a big something that what the fuck was that?
Speaker 2: I look at me window and there's these big flames
Speaker 2: coming over the house. Think, oh fuck you. You go
Speaker 2: ran outside to get around open the door, and there
Speaker 2: was that young fella carver on the short little feller
Speaker 2: and he's the little four ten pointed at me. I'm like,
Speaker 2: go on there and door can't and then he did it.
Speaker 1: So we're talking at fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with bird shot though, So it's nothing crazy, but
Speaker 2: still hurt. It was just like the photo, like you
Speaker 2: could see like it was just burning.
Speaker 1: Okay, so people down and understand guns like a shotgun
Speaker 1: so when it goes off at sprays, but the size
Speaker 1: of the pellets make a difference in terms of the damage.
Speaker 2: Yes, I wasn't like before, like a buck shot. It
Speaker 2: was like a bird shot, which is like you wouldn't
Speaker 2: like tiny little pelts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you wouldn't know.
Speaker 2: I was fucking freaking.
Speaker 1: I was, Oh fuck, So someone's got a shotgun pointed
Speaker 1: at you. Yere saw and off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a shortened fourteen years so he made themselves.
Speaker 1: You you've opened the door ten thirty at night? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what movie were you watching?
Speaker 2: Watching Did John? I love that movie and I love
Speaker 2: the Notebook and that too. I love that stuff. Jesus, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was just did John? I remember that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, well that that's something that we didn't expect. When
Speaker 1: this is tough, hard Asspikey's placed up and came with
Speaker 1: his dad watching Did John?
Speaker 2: Was missus and.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, watching I'm thinking that's that's getting out hit.
Speaker 1: We shouldn't laugh, yeah, but we are laughing. So your
Speaker 1: flames going above your house. So Molotov cocktail or something
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: It opened up my missus car fuel thing poured like
Speaker 2: a rag lit it up bomb. That's the thing blew
Speaker 2: up and then accord on to my car buck and
Speaker 2: it's come all along the front verandas and the all
Speaker 2: the smoke damage on top the house get on fire.
Speaker 2: So they've got me fucking trying to put out the flames.
Speaker 1: So you'd you've jumped out of the bed, you've come out,
Speaker 1: You run out as you would when you hear something
Speaker 1: like that. Did you think instantaneously it's a gang related
Speaker 1: like it's.
Speaker 2: I knew it was about Okay, I was warned beforehand
Speaker 2: it was going to happen, but because I thought this
Speaker 2: kid was a blow ass all talk and I think
Speaker 2: that whatever, but don't happen.
Speaker 1: You've come you've come out, you run out, and your
Speaker 1: underpants and come out, and there's a bloke there with
Speaker 1: balaclav on and the shotgun point of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I said, I said the thirst thing I
Speaker 2: said was go and do it. Then can't And then
Speaker 2: he did it. So I was in displief, was like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck.
Speaker 1: Do you regret saying go and do it then.
Speaker 2: Oh maybe more so if it was like a bugshot,
Speaker 2: it'll probably be dead. Well, you would be dead.
Speaker 1: You would would be dead. You would be dead. But
Speaker 1: the point I'm trying to mate you didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Was too much, Adoline. I was think of just trying
Speaker 2: to save the house.
Speaker 1: Okay? Is that so that's just part of the persona
Speaker 1: being the bike at the time. Fuck you are you
Speaker 1: going to do it? If you've got the ball?
Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't. That's why I was. I always thought
Speaker 2: of a knife and all that. It's more personal. I'd
Speaker 2: rather run away from someone with a knife than a gun.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when he let the shot off, regardless of
Speaker 1: whether it's buckshot, it would have made the hell of
Speaker 1: a noise.
Speaker 2: Felt that then you would kind of pushing back a
Speaker 2: tiny bit, even though the pellets were like tiny dis believe,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? But then he ran and all my
Speaker 2: next thought was just like to put out the fire.
Speaker 2: Where were you shot in the guts?
Speaker 1: Okay? And did you did you think like quite often
Speaker 1: when people are shot, they don't even realize they've been shot.
Speaker 2: Did you think I didn't feel it until like a
Speaker 2: minute or two later. I knew what happened, but I
Speaker 2: didn't feel like that was just started burning. I feel
Speaker 2: like someone was stabbing me with cigarettes. Fucking agony. But
Speaker 2: a lot of the pellets fell out straight away, like
Speaker 2: the one or two that were there was just sizzling
Speaker 2: burning in the skin. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When when you were shot with the buckshot did you
Speaker 1: did you have to go to the hospital.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I didn't go till like a day or
Speaker 2: two later to get the last two pellets out.
Speaker 1: We're just playing hard ass biking.
Speaker 2: Doesn't talk 'spicially what I was doing. Yeah, they didn't know.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at someone.
Speaker 2: That's it is. It's funny.
Speaker 1: It's a crazy, crazy world. So the cops would have
Speaker 1: turned up.
Speaker 2: Cops could turn up within like two minutes and crazy.
Speaker 1: They would have said, do you know what's going? They
Speaker 1: would have known. Yeah, did you follow them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I didn't say nothing to him because I
Speaker 2: don't know what happened, you know what I mean? Then
Speaker 2: went out to stay there because all the smoke damage
Speaker 2: and stuff too, So I stayed another maid of mines. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you poor dad fucking stayed there still.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did that make you feel like you had
Speaker 1: your lady in bed with a piece of ship.
Speaker 2: It's like a fucking car's gone. Let pay for a
Speaker 2: new car. Your fucking dad's gonna be like fuck. But
Speaker 2: did you have a bit of trouble from it? So
Speaker 2: it was more to so like fuck it. Hell, I
Speaker 2: was just more upset about what I put the other
Speaker 2: people through them myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's people should look at that, because it's
Speaker 1: all right when you're on your own, Bravardo will fuck
Speaker 1: you pull the trigger. But people, innocent people could have
Speaker 1: got you once a place starts going up in flames
Speaker 1: or whatever happened. So what was what was the end
Speaker 1: result that hit the media? And did all through the media,
Speaker 1: please keep coming back at you, going what's going on?
Speaker 1: We can't protect you if you don't talk to us,
Speaker 1: that type of stuff.
Speaker 2: It was all through the media, and then tried to
Speaker 2: keep it hidden from you, mum, like I was saying.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, fucker's big up about that. She need
Speaker 2: lost a job after that first one.
Speaker 1: So with that, you've been in the gang. What was
Speaker 1: the consequences of that was?
Speaker 2: And I obviously had to hit back and we did.
Speaker 2: That was in the news to you.
Speaker 1: Did has that all been resolved through the courts or
Speaker 1: or just any one of them.
Speaker 2: The four boy young kids that the fellas that did
Speaker 2: mine all snitched on each other. Right, So, and I
Speaker 2: was in there at the time when the one who
Speaker 2: shot me come in and he didn't come to the mains.
Speaker 2: He was he went to protection, got bashed.
Speaker 1: Are you you were in prison?
Speaker 2: Ended up coming in. Yeah, he got for that. He
Speaker 2: got bashed, did come the mains, preture, got bashed like
Speaker 2: broken jaw, and he got sent to strict protection, which
Speaker 2: is like for rapists and pedals and stuff. He was
Speaker 2: down there, he was too scared to come on the mains.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that that was that was part of the
Speaker 1: gang payback.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And they all rolled on each other after doing
Speaker 2: that to my house. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, as we said, I don't think it takes
Speaker 1: much courage fire.
Speaker 2: Shots, say I reckon. It's a lot of easy to
Speaker 2: pull a trigger, that is, to stab someone, most definitely. Okay,
Speaker 2: So that that was the first time, what was the
Speaker 2: first one, and a lot of tip for tat we're
Speaker 2: going at them back at us. And the second time
Speaker 2: it happened to.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to spark off more more conflict,
Speaker 1: but that was just rivalry between.
Speaker 2: It was basically people that weren't even like really part
Speaker 2: of the drama and the beef. We're getting involved, getting
Speaker 2: touched up and stuff for it all because.
Speaker 1: There was a lot going on in Camber at the time.
Speaker 2: It was not huge, always in the news, always in
Speaker 2: the news. And then the second time would happened, it
Speaker 2: was fucking they come in. They had more way more
Speaker 2: heavy artillery. So like I didn't answer the door, I
Speaker 2: didn't have time to answer the door. I heard another
Speaker 2: big wolf.
Speaker 1: How long after the first one.
Speaker 2: It would have been about a month. So I had
Speaker 2: fixed all the house up, painted all the front, the front,
Speaker 2: like everything like that. I got it all cleaned up,
Speaker 2: paid all the money, and that happens again, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: of fox sake, I'm over this shit. It's like I
Speaker 2: heard another big wolf at night, like a big boom,
Speaker 2: and then I walked out. There's even more stuff on
Speaker 2: fire than the fucking last time. And I didn't realize
Speaker 2: that the guns they used one was there was like
Speaker 2: a forty five and a nine mill and they fucking
Speaker 2: found one of the bullets, like traveled through my parents' room,
Speaker 2: through their bathroom, through the family room into my bathroom
Speaker 2: at the end of the house like a cupboard. Sorry,
Speaker 2: just before the bathroom enlidged in a fucking one of
Speaker 2: my old photo albums. So if anyone was in that
Speaker 2: fuck that's when I went outside. All the cops were
Speaker 2: there within fucking minutes. It's world how that happens. How
Speaker 2: they're there within minutes, And I detective goes, mister Turble,
Speaker 2: someone could have been fucking murdered.
Speaker 1: Look what are you doing?
Speaker 2: And look what are your calls? And I think, fuck,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But I'm thinking, like they did,
Speaker 2: the trajectory of the bullet and my dad in bed
Speaker 2: and my mom, and they said if my mom was
Speaker 2: in the bed at the time, she would have been hit,
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking it more than likely would have died.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't know. I wouldn't want to take
Speaker 2: that chance.
Speaker 1: When your second attack, when it was fire bombed, you
Speaker 1: said there was more damage. What was it? What was
Speaker 1: done to it?
Speaker 2: This time? There was way more smoke damage that came
Speaker 2: all in through the house. Yeah, Like the whole ceilings
Speaker 2: were all black, the every all the bushes and trees
Speaker 2: out the front all gone, burnt, burnt, to a crisp
Speaker 2: the wood like the concrete porch, and then you got there,
Speaker 2: like the wood, I don't know what they're holding up
Speaker 2: the thing all burnt, like just hanging by a thread,
Speaker 2: like the front of the roof was hanging down.
Speaker 1: Seems like the whole place could have burnt.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they had There was a couple of joy cans,
Speaker 2: and they had the gas barbecue gas things what they called,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Like obviously they
Speaker 2: didn't understand like there was it was still smoke and
Speaker 2: shooting out of flame and I'm grabbing that tron. The
Speaker 2: gas bottles, Yeah, gas bottles. They didn't They didn't explode though.
Speaker 1: To me that yeah, if I was looking at it
Speaker 1: from a homicide to take this point of view, that
Speaker 1: that's a real intent to do some serious damage.
Speaker 2: To gas bottles. Yeah, then it didn't explode though. They'll
Speaker 2: turned on obviously because you see the fucking fire pissing
Speaker 2: out of the top.
Speaker 1: They wanted to wanted to keep you.
Speaker 2: That would have done some damage. And then there's two
Speaker 2: Jerry cans, then the high powered Yeah, whether they chuck
Speaker 2: forty five bullets into a nine moments, I don't know.
Speaker 1: How many? How many thoughts were shot?
Speaker 2: Five? It's not a full kip or anything, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy crazy times. Okay, breaking it down a couple
Speaker 1: of things. Observations I make from that. They've had to
Speaker 1: go at you the first time? Yeah, get it didn't
Speaker 1: get you. They're going to do it properly this time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: come back with more pistols. Yeah, So how did that
Speaker 1: de escalate? Because that's just building up? Like, what were
Speaker 1: you thinking? Like, I'm thinking, if someone's trying to kill me,
Speaker 1: back at them? What was going through your mind?
Speaker 2: I was going to fucking getting back at them, but
Speaker 2: then I got locked up? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that a good thing in hindsight?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say so fucking I'd prefer to be in
Speaker 2: jail for a short stint than I would for maybe
Speaker 2: possibly shooting someone, hitting them and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's your take on all these drive by shootings?
Speaker 1: You think there is as cowardly as what's gone on
Speaker 1: with your place.
Speaker 2: I think drive wat shings it's always like you, I
Speaker 2: don't think the intent is to ever hit someone, but
Speaker 2: sometimes you can, and then your intent isn't there to
Speaker 2: hit them, and then you're just this young kid like
Speaker 2: then told to do something, want to look tough, shoot
Speaker 2: up some bricks school and then you've accidentally shot someone
Speaker 2: through a window, and then your whole life's fucked and
Speaker 2: what have you thrown it away for nothing? Just looked tough,
Speaker 2: so cool, you're tougher than me, I was tougher than you,
Speaker 2: or stuff like that. You know what I mean. It's
Speaker 2: pretty fucking silly in my opinion.
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad that's that's your opinion. But how
Speaker 1: did you feel about yourself? But because you potentially yeah,
Speaker 1: put your people that you're loving.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was minding give a fuck about myself
Speaker 2: at that time. I was just more upset about me,
Speaker 2: fucking like me, possibly you mum getting hurt like he's
Speaker 2: she was away on deployment or something like that. Otherwise,
Speaker 2: like fun, I won't be able to live myself. We devastated.
Speaker 2: We fucking imagine that you haven't seen mother because you
Speaker 2: want to be a tough boy in a gang. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you fucking you go and tip tap being tough,
Speaker 2: who's who's tougher? I'm tougher than you, because you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? And then your mum's getten shot and
Speaker 2: possibly killed for what because you fucking want to be
Speaker 2: tougher over social media or something like that.
Speaker 1: So how did you how did you break away from
Speaker 1: the game?
Speaker 2: Slowly started like thinking. I was like, wait, that was
Speaker 2: a wake up call. It was like the fuck you know,
Speaker 2: I'm practically leaving and like these kinds don't give a fuck,
Speaker 2: like they didn't care.
Speaker 1: So the shootings were after you before before before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like they don't even give a fuck about me,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like it's awkward to be right, brother,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, You're going to pay more
Speaker 2: money to fix this or stuff like that, and I
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna quietly leave, you know what i mean.
Speaker 2: Gave him war me club gears. I'm going on a break.
Speaker 1: You quit when you're inside? Yeah, okay, and what's the
Speaker 1: process it? I would type up a resignation.
Speaker 2: All five of us left in jail.
Speaker 1: Left you just made it clear we're.
Speaker 2: Not we're done with you. So yeah, just like now
Speaker 2: we had enough and like just being Yeah.
Speaker 1: Is there any any consequences of walking out like the.
Speaker 2: Way you did? No, not for me, No, yeah, because
Speaker 2: of the position, like the normally position you leave.
Speaker 1: You're still writing I've ridden.
Speaker 2: In years, probably since before even prison was.
Speaker 1: That part of the attraction in the in the bikis
Speaker 1: when you're all you go on the annual runs.
Speaker 2: And you look cool, you think you do, but like
Speaker 2: a lot of time people are just like fuck with you.
Speaker 2: It's like he's got all these we just call my
Speaker 2: country bikes. They'd be like late fifties fucking walking around
Speaker 2: in club gear and stuff, and I think they're the toughest,
Speaker 2: all the baddest guys. And you get like young guns
Speaker 2: like me, you just be like looking at it like
Speaker 2: you're a fucking loser, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you get you get out of prison, What
Speaker 1: did you do?
Speaker 2: I went and got pizza because I was already set.
Speaker 2: I was I got up early, freshened up. When I
Speaker 2: got out, I was fucking lean because I was a
Speaker 2: training every day. I was eating right in prison, tuna rice.
Speaker 2: There's no breeds in there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Went got a pizza, and then the day after that
Speaker 2: is when I went and booked myself in for COT
Speaker 2: to start.
Speaker 1: So you walked out with all the intent I'm not
Speaker 1: going back in the gates, Shah.
Speaker 2: I went got a pizza because I had pizza in years,
Speaker 2: and then then the day after that, I signed up
Speaker 2: for the start of the semester in the February, but
Speaker 2: I got out in the late October, so a couple
Speaker 2: of months. But between then and starting school, I was
Speaker 2: working for my mate. So I got out and started
Speaker 2: work within two days as well. So I want to
Speaker 2: keep active because I had a great routine in prison,
Speaker 2: but it's hard to keep that same routine when you
Speaker 2: get out.
Speaker 1: As in the Staying Fit.
Speaker 2: Safe, I'd get up at a certain time, get up,
Speaker 2: go to a bed at ten, get up a train,
Speaker 2: and then when you get out, like you can do
Speaker 2: it for a bit, and then life gets gets in
Speaker 2: the way, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Well, that's part of being institutionalized too, isn't it. You're
Speaker 1: getting that regiment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I genuinely loved it, okay, because there's like
Speaker 2: up train, eat bed, you can you could, you can
Speaker 2: try and do it out here.
Speaker 1: It was too hard, too many complications when you're out
Speaker 1: in the real wars.
Speaker 2: When I got out as well, stopped like the lights
Speaker 2: with my mate, pressed the button and we went. He
Speaker 2: went to walk a christ and he's like, what are
Speaker 2: you doing? I was like, I was waiting to get
Speaker 2: told to go.
Speaker 1: Right, So that's another impact.
Speaker 2: I was waiting the lights and he's like, what are
Speaker 2: you doing?
Speaker 1: Hurry up?
Speaker 2: I'm like what, oh ship, I was waiting to get
Speaker 2: told to go.
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck, that's another impact. You do just
Speaker 1: get conditioned to Yeah, being told what to do, when
Speaker 1: to do, and.
Speaker 2: How to do it. I was like, because there's no
Speaker 2: way that's gonna happened to me, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It only last couple of weeks though for me it did.
Speaker 2: But the humans are adaptable. But you get in that environment,
Speaker 2: you do become compliant because waiting to get told to
Speaker 2: go through a door or walk forward backwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you get you get out of prison, what's
Speaker 1: your what's your your plans? You said you did those courses.
Speaker 2: My thing was gonna like full go to school, work
Speaker 2: with the youth, or work like a youth justice center
Speaker 2: or something like that. So the only reason I got
Speaker 2: parole was because one of my best mates put up
Speaker 2: that I could sleep on his food on. So I
Speaker 2: slept on a food toon for like a year. Because
Speaker 2: I couldn't be with my parents or anyone. I didn't
Speaker 2: have anywhere else to stay. So my mate, one of
Speaker 2: my best mates, Wade, put it up for me that
Speaker 2: I could stay with him for a bit, let me
Speaker 2: live there rent free. I worked freem with the tattoo
Speaker 2: shop while I was going to school, so I was
Speaker 2: getting paid like money every week and going to school.
Speaker 2: So I did all the practice, like the assessments that
Speaker 2: it was over two semesters, so two terms and three
Speaker 2: and four, passed them all, did all the group ones.
Speaker 2: And then when it comes to the workplace when I
Speaker 2: wasn't able to do it because I couldn't get a
Speaker 2: work in all a person's card, It's like the fuck,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like give me a chance.
Speaker 1: At least did that sort of set back because I
Speaker 1: hear a lot of the blakes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of fell back into like just drinking
Speaker 2: a bit more and s somethimes like what the fuck
Speaker 2: am I doing? You know what I mean? Nothing else,
Speaker 2: It's like cool. I tried my artists and then they
Speaker 2: just told me to funk off basically, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, but like doing the course't me like like
Speaker 2: a funk with anything about like you got these They
Speaker 2: had no idea that I've been to prison or who
Speaker 2: I was or didn't know that. God didn't say nothing,
Speaker 2: and they talked about, oh, talk about this is what
Speaker 2: happens in prison, and this is what you got to do,
Speaker 2: and this you know, this is blah blah. I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: you can't. You fuckings have no idea about anything. You've
Speaker 2: fucking seen this stuff on a TV show. We've read
Speaker 2: watching too many fucking fake YouTube videos or some shit
Speaker 2: you got. That's not how it happens at all, or
Speaker 2: how anything goes down in there. I think, would you
Speaker 2: rather talk to me the guy, the kid who's been
Speaker 2: there and been through it, done it, or and wants
Speaker 2: to change, or someone that's never touched drugs in their
Speaker 2: life or has not lived any gang through outlaw lifestyle
Speaker 2: telling you what you should be doing, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. So I got I was very rather resentful
Speaker 2: of it, like I'm trying. I'm trying here, and you
Speaker 2: don't give me anything with that.
Speaker 1: And I understand what you're saying, and I agree with
Speaker 1: your wholeheartedly. I think lived experience coming to young blokes,
Speaker 1: they sort of there is open up and they actually
Speaker 1: actually listen. But I've seen a lot of blokes that
Speaker 1: have had you tried to go on the straight and
Speaker 1: narrow had had that set back in what they've formed,
Speaker 1: And you're describing what happened to you, what kept you
Speaker 1: on the straight and narrow still bothered in the right direction?
Speaker 1: What was the turning?
Speaker 2: Fucking mum was like you saw something because I was
Speaker 2: like falling back into some stupid shit, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just like, fucking I've actually tried here, like
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, I've write and doing assignment's coursework,
Speaker 2: which I've never done, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: then it's like, fuck, you can't do this. I was like, fuck,
Speaker 2: what do I do? You know what I mean? Because well,
Speaker 2: so then I started caring for me grandmother for like
Speaker 2: two years. So I cared for her and looked after
Speaker 2: her for two years, and then she passed away and
Speaker 2: then I was like, fun, what I'm gonna do now.
Speaker 2: It's like it's kind of after COVID or during COVID,
Speaker 2: remember happened and the big thing in COVID was like
Speaker 2: sports cards and Pokemon cards. You told me stuff talk
Speaker 2: because I'm not quite thinking fuck, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like I don't I can't go to school. I kind
Speaker 2: of get a work in a vulnerable person's card. So
Speaker 2: I'll try and make a job out of this. I
Speaker 2: had some old sports cards, like graded cards like Lebron
Speaker 2: James Rookie, Stephen Curry Rookie, old Pokemon cards from when
Speaker 2: I was a kid. I used to collect them before
Speaker 2: I was a big bad biking You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: You said you're in the Yeah.
Speaker 2: I used to play video games, fucking Warcraft all that
Speaker 2: ship and I love it. But then if I say
Speaker 2: now to be from the mud, to get dirty, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But I was doing all that.
Speaker 2: Then the Pokemon cards, I think I've seen like these
Speaker 2: influences and stuff. They're selling these Pokemon cards for hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands and sports cards for ten twenty thirty thousand. Fuck,
Speaker 2: I might have something here. So I hug my opened
Speaker 2: a business. I opened a business account, got my name
Speaker 2: all registered and stuff like that. I saw my first card, Yeah,
Speaker 2: for sixteen thousand dollars. It was a Lebron James Rookie card.
Speaker 2: So that's from then on. I've just been it's been
Speaker 2: about three years now. I've been doing this beautiful and
Speaker 2: then I happened to get the NURL job. During the
Speaker 2: whole time. So how did how well?
Speaker 1: First of all, how does it feel like earning an
Speaker 1: honest living?
Speaker 2: It's good, Like that's like I'm saying, like bagging thegit money.
Speaker 2: I got to pay tax for the first time in life.
Speaker 2: That figured out how to do that. Yeah, And then
Speaker 2: like they still I was making all this money, like
Speaker 2: they thought I was sending texts to people I've got
Speaker 2: Canada and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, I want
Speaker 2: you want this one, bro or this one. And the
Speaker 2: cops had my phone buked. We've got rated once since
Speaker 2: I've got out, and they thinking was they thought it
Speaker 2: was like talk for drugs. This is like a legitimate
Speaker 2: Pokemon guardian. There's like a Charis or a picture or
Speaker 2: a Lebron James or something. So there's no code here.
Speaker 2: They hit me and raided me. The first time I've
Speaker 2: been raided. I was like a relief or whatever. I
Speaker 2: go for it. They didn't get no, they took a
Speaker 2: lot of ship, but I got everything back, Like even
Speaker 2: my one of my best mates, who I meant Afro
Speaker 2: got out of prisony brot me a role X for
Speaker 2: my birthday, got that back, got everything back the first
Speaker 2: time I've been raided and hadn't been locked up. We'll
Speaker 2: let go. It's the best feelin ever winner. Literally, I
Speaker 2: was like, thank god. I was like, it's like you fuckers,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I was like, you're intel
Speaker 2: must be horrible. Well you think I'm talking about drugs,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about basketball. Okay, Well in defense of the cops.
Speaker 1: So I was after a group of contract killers that
Speaker 1: used Telly tubbies really as that was. They called each
Speaker 1: other by Telly Tubby names. But anyway, okay, So you're
Speaker 1: paying the taxes, you've been raided, and you're for the
Speaker 1: first time you've been raided, and you've been in the right,
Speaker 1: and you've got up and you got all the got
Speaker 1: the all stuff stuff bad.
Speaker 2: Didn't get locked up, got everything back? Yeah. Good.
Speaker 1: The NRL, how you doing talks with and what we're
Speaker 1: talking about here is you doing talks with the junior
Speaker 1: teams in the NR clubs?
Speaker 2: That gang exit thing with Dom from Queensland. He's been
Speaker 2: amazing and it's helped me with so much. Give opportunities.
Speaker 1: He's in the in the cops and he's he's seen
Speaker 1: the potential that you've got for you can get across.
Speaker 2: I've got to him with that Ben Gappert who's ex
Speaker 2: Hells Angel and that other fellow from the Titans.
Speaker 1: How did you feel when they asked you to do that?
Speaker 2: It was I was like, I'm a dog their deadlocks.
Speaker 2: They got some other guy and who's recording mate? You're
Speaker 2: just telling your story from your point of view and
Speaker 2: how it happened, Like you're not telling anyone, Okay, I
Speaker 2: see them all like that. So yeah, this is from there.
Speaker 2: I just tell my story. It's come out, and yeah,
Speaker 2: it took a couple of years for it to come out.
Speaker 1: What's the purpose of what do they want to do
Speaker 1: with those videos? Get them out to.
Speaker 2: Just the youth trying just like it's not worth it
Speaker 2: joining you know what I mean, got a lot to
Speaker 2: live for. Yeah, there's more to life and I mean
Speaker 2: biking well it's not struggling.
Speaker 1: It's a good lesson for everyone, not just Bikey's like
Speaker 1: any gangs, like for your life are away as a
Speaker 1: young fella. So it's a powerful message. So there was
Speaker 1: a bit of reluctance on your behalf because and misguided
Speaker 1: because you're not you're not being a dog or an informant,
Speaker 1: but you're just saying, well, everyone.
Speaker 2: Fucking has their own opinions. You always guys are dog always this.
Speaker 2: It's like you're idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well look, I've had blokes on plenty of x
Speaker 1: EX members on the podcast, and.
Speaker 2: You're people talking shit that have no idea about that
Speaker 2: life or anything. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, there's always a bit of a fray
Speaker 1: back that what are you doing speaking to a next cop?
Speaker 1: But I think the point is you're just informing people
Speaker 1: this is this is what happens in the world.
Speaker 2: You've got a dog just talked to a cop, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? That's a thing in jail, you
Speaker 2: call someone a dog. You've got to produce that paperwork
Speaker 2: or you're getting your fucking head keeved in. Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: there's nothing like jail. Rules are different, but like, there's
Speaker 2: no thing out here like that. People the repercussions of
Speaker 2: saying that.
Speaker 1: So, after you did the video and you saw it
Speaker 1: go out there, how did you how did you feel?
Speaker 2: I haven't watched it. I can't hate my voice. I
Speaker 2: watched I watch a couple of them, but yeah, after
Speaker 2: a while, watched that. But yeah, it's kind of weird
Speaker 2: watching that ship for me.
Speaker 1: It was a powerful for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I was watching myself talk and stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, just be weird.
Speaker 1: For me, it's confronting. I'm still fine the same thing
Speaker 1: doing doing this stuff.
Speaker 2: Loved it though, like mats and ship. So it was awesome.
Speaker 2: That's the point, I guess.
Speaker 1: And and people within the gangs respected you for what
Speaker 1: you're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have nothing to say about it. Cool, I
Speaker 2: Woulder said. Anyway, so I'm to do my own thing,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, more than by any fucking
Speaker 2: bikey rules or anything. I'm a normal citizen. Yeah, an outlaw.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you're paying taxes. Yeah that's a pain.
Speaker 2: But anyway, it's the worst.
Speaker 1: The n r L.
Speaker 2: So how did you How Dom asked me to do
Speaker 2: another talk, which was in Melbourne in front of it
Speaker 2: like American DA agents. I don't know, I don't know what
Speaker 2: it's for, but they wanted, like an ex bike you
Speaker 2: come and talk his life. So I talked about my
Speaker 2: upbringing and how I went from like potential first grader
Speaker 2: to becoming a biking and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And we've got to chat and after my talk and
Speaker 2: connected from there, and that's how I got the gig,
Speaker 2: like literally just right place, right time, by chance. Because
Speaker 2: at one point I was going to tell Dom I
Speaker 2: didn't want to go, so lucky I said, Lucky, I
Speaker 2: just fucking just sucked it up and went.
Speaker 1: And what was your reluctant s You just didn't want
Speaker 1: to speaking public?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really like it that much, but once
Speaker 2: I get into it, I'm sweet. Like as long as
Speaker 2: you're like you make him laugh and you get you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, they get a bit just comfy,
Speaker 2: but yourself. Yeah, yeah, But I was like, I'm happy
Speaker 2: I did it because if I didn't do it, it's like
Speaker 2: a lot of things in my life. I just lucky
Speaker 2: I just did it. Otherwise wouldn't have got a lot
Speaker 2: of opportunities.
Speaker 1: So you spoke down there, you must have left an impression.
Speaker 1: Then you got invited to speak to NRL class. Tell
Speaker 1: us about what message?
Speaker 2: And you're ringing?
Speaker 1: Who's your all? That?
Speaker 2: Like the junior is like a lot of the boys
Speaker 2: have just got their first contracts, Like what what like
Speaker 2: what to watch out for? Like don't get used, watch
Speaker 2: be cautious. Who's hanging around hanging around with taking photos,
Speaker 2: with uploading on social media? Like just like basically stuff
Speaker 2: that or what I went through as younger youngers, like
Speaker 2: staying away from the bio keys and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And how when you say used, how young footballers used
Speaker 1: once they start to get a profile or will eventually
Speaker 1: get a profile.
Speaker 2: Money, So it's easy to make money off of you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Yes, someone's on two hundred k
Speaker 2: fifty k year, they can they can afford a couple
Speaker 2: of balls a week cocaine, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Free money?
Speaker 1: And do you talk about your your drug side of
Speaker 1: things that stuffed up your your.
Speaker 2: Chances of Yeah, I didn't even judge alcoholtel sixteen yeah,
Speaker 2: and then off the rails the MDMA pills.
Speaker 1: Do you think they're listening to the young blokes.
Speaker 2: Like when you're younger, you like look at someone like
Speaker 2: the fuck up? You know, you're all full of ship.
Speaker 2: I was like, I said that to be it's not
Speaker 2: thinking I'm full of shit. You know, I've been in
Speaker 2: your shoes. I've both sat where you are and I
Speaker 2: thought the same thing. And then a couple of bulldogs
Speaker 2: unions come to me after we actually googled you, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So I sat and chatted with
Speaker 2: them for about an hour, two hours, eleven o'clock at night.
Speaker 2: This was a two day thing, the rookie camp. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's good, I.
Speaker 1: Say, yeah, they're the rookie camp and the media training
Speaker 1: and what of the type of things they're asking you
Speaker 1: when they come up and talked to you.
Speaker 2: I think they like it. They're like me because it's
Speaker 2: I'm just like laid back and just got a question.
Speaker 2: I'll answer it. Nothing to hide, like one of the boys,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But you get a lot
Speaker 2: of these talkers that are real stuck up or pretentious,
Speaker 2: like I'm better than you because I've done this, I'll
Speaker 2: turn my life friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, death by powerpoints, Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2: You have to lecturing. Lecturing, Yeah, lecturing. They fucking hate that.
Speaker 1: So you think it's having having an impact.
Speaker 2: On Yeah, yes and no. I guess I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'd say yeah, but it was to say no because
Speaker 2: like young kids are money, gonna do what they want anyway.
Speaker 2: And then you know, it's like me, I didn't realize
Speaker 2: the causing my actions and all the repercussions until I
Speaker 2: got older and looking back as like, fuck, I should
Speaker 2: have done a lot of things differently.
Speaker 1: But if you can. You can just change one life
Speaker 1: that's worth well, you think.
Speaker 2: It's like there's like one of the young fellows, the
Speaker 2: Young Boys in their mission on Instagram every now and
Speaker 2: then talks's from Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Good kid, one of the young guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good kids. Families associated with his brothers and he's
Speaker 2: not what do I do? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's like, you can't pick your family. As long as
Speaker 2: you're honest with the club and stuff. It's like, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna get in trouble, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's your fault that your family members in that part
Speaker 2: of life, Like, nah, you're not gonna get in trouble.
Speaker 2: So he talks to me every now and then stuff
Speaker 2: still talk to me and I don't work anymore for
Speaker 2: the in all things.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's good that that's worth and that that
Speaker 1: I can imagine the advice because they would be their
Speaker 1: kids are intimidating, they're dealing with bikeies.
Speaker 2: What am I going to do?
Speaker 1: But if you and that's a way of navigating their
Speaker 1: way through it, just be honest with the bikes and us.
Speaker 2: With the club too. But like your own your football club,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get in trouble for saying the unit,
Speaker 2: but it's the better thing that you're telling them ahead
Speaker 2: of time if anything happens anyway. Yeah, yeah, it looks
Speaker 2: like your fault that someone else is in a bike club.
Speaker 1: So reflecting that back on your life, do you feel
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the crimes that you committed?
Speaker 1: Do you do you regret it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do, because there's like a lot of times
Speaker 2: where you do things in public and they'd be like
Speaker 2: a young young little boy or young girl. They're just
Speaker 2: chilling with their family or something and they've watched it
Speaker 2: happen or go down in public, because you'd know, in
Speaker 2: something in public, it just like that just switches as
Speaker 2: on like that then got people get in the way,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel about it. That's your little kids
Speaker 2: and that watching.
Speaker 1: That's I'm glad you said that. I hadn't really thought
Speaker 1: about it from that that point inter view. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the impact and everyone seen bikey's inflict violence in public terrifies.
Speaker 2: People, especially on the bandidos. And was it the Broadbeach one? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that was a big one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was well everyone for everyone, Well, I think,
Speaker 1: and I've said it on the podcast quite quite a bit,
Speaker 1: but the airport with the Commonero's and Hell's Angels that
Speaker 1: I was in gang squad at that point in time,
Speaker 1: and that's when enough is enough. That's when they brought
Speaker 1: the heat down on them, every member across the country
Speaker 1: because because of that. Okay, what do you think I'm
Speaker 1: asking asking you here? What would you say to a
Speaker 1: young blake that's about to you? Personally? You've given us
Speaker 1: the story. But if some young blake came up for
Speaker 1: you and said, I'm I'm going to join the gangs,
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck what you think. What what's
Speaker 1: your response to im?
Speaker 2: Just just a little the ship that I went through
Speaker 2: and I put my parents in that three hours? Like
Speaker 2: you really want to go through all that? You know?
Speaker 2: I mean I lost great girlfriends, great friends, all because
Speaker 2: of my associations with the bikes or because of what
Speaker 2: happened to them like car blown up? It's like how
Speaker 2: do you repair that? And they're going to be like
Speaker 2: you had to say this, Look, do you really want
Speaker 2: to go through everything that I did? I will potentially
Speaker 2: go through everything that I did and had to deal with, mate,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, imagine my mom had
Speaker 2: got hit and killed. Have to live with that for
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. No, No, that's what I
Speaker 2: was saying in prisons. I can't. I will never go
Speaker 2: back because if I ever go back and then my
Speaker 2: mom passes away while I'm in there, I would fucking
Speaker 2: be the worst thing, you know, and I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: able to live with it. It's like, are you able
Speaker 2: to live with all these consequences from your actions? Like
Speaker 2: imagine you're in jail, your grandmother, your love passes away,
Speaker 2: and you got to you got to ask permission to
Speaker 2: go to a funeral, and then you get the permission
Speaker 2: that you can't where suit You're still gonna be in
Speaker 2: a jumpsuit, handcuffed with two screws either side, like you
Speaker 2: had to live with all that kinds of shit.
Speaker 1: Good messaging. What do you love the mate so you
Speaker 1: prepared to hurt them? Because that's basically what you.
Speaker 2: And you don't realize all of the time how much
Speaker 2: you do genuinely love your parents or your things till
Speaker 2: something happens to them and you're like fuck and you
Speaker 2: can't fix that.
Speaker 1: What about the pathways out of prison? I've spoken with
Speaker 1: a lot of blokes that have been inside blakes and
Speaker 1: women that have been inside. How difficult it is to
Speaker 1: go on the straight and narrow. You said earlier on
Speaker 1: in either part one or this part that you had
Speaker 1: good people around you. How much difference did that make?
Speaker 2: I was lucky. I had a good support network of
Speaker 2: good friends who are very straight and eighty family as
Speaker 2: much as they could help. But like, it was mostly
Speaker 2: just really good friends or people that I was friends
Speaker 2: with before I was a biking. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Have you reconnected with those people?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Everyone? All my good mates who visit me in
Speaker 2: prison once, I'm still very close with now. Yeah. Like
Speaker 2: I said, I didn't go to see a lot of
Speaker 2: the people. The people when they get out of prison,
Speaker 2: they want to be your friend. So I didn't go
Speaker 2: to jail to make friends, man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And then and I also said, as soon as got
Speaker 2: out of prison, I didn't want to make any new friends.
Speaker 2: I've got almost good friends here and that's how I've
Speaker 2: always been since.
Speaker 1: Well, the quality of people are the ones when you're
Speaker 1: in the ship that stand up for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Back especially, I wouldn't have been wouldn't even got parole.
Speaker 2: Wasn't for that good made of mine, let him let
Speaker 2: me sleep on his foot on for a year and
Speaker 2: giving me a job, you know what I mean, So
Speaker 2: just help me get back on my feet. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's like the good quard your mates, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: What about in prison? There is there anything that you
Speaker 1: made a decision? Is there anything more they can do
Speaker 1: in prison to get people to wake up or is
Speaker 1: it there's nothing that's complicated.
Speaker 2: It's they say they do, but it's like, you do
Speaker 2: these courses in prison, but they don't have They don't
Speaker 2: help you when you get out unless you're doing like
Speaker 2: a UNI degree for like you're there for ten years,
Speaker 2: you're doing like a barbership course or a barbers like
Speaker 2: a barber course or whatever. Like there's nothing in there
Speaker 2: when I was in there. Now at the AMC, they've
Speaker 2: got PlayStation xboxes, inter the switches and stuff, which I
Speaker 2: reckon is a good thing and keeps the boys occupied
Speaker 2: in their minds elsewhere from wanting to punch on and
Speaker 2: stab people or do drugs.
Speaker 1: Well, you want you want people that come out of
Speaker 1: the prison to be able to simulate back in the society.
Speaker 1: So you've got to give them the skills and they're.
Speaker 2: Lucky for me a good support network to do all that.
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: But a lot of people don't want to change either.
Speaker 2: You know, unless you want it, you're never going to
Speaker 2: want to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, some people choose the life and that's the
Speaker 1: life they want to live. But I'm seeing in New
Speaker 1: South Wales and I think across the country in some places,
Speaker 1: they're making difference with the way they're doing prison making
Speaker 1: making it so you can get the education and preparing
Speaker 1: you're better for coming out. But when you come out
Speaker 1: it's not easier either.
Speaker 2: Like I was saying, like I didn't even I didn't
Speaker 2: even need to work in a onetable person's card or
Speaker 2: any qualifications to do the NROL job. And that's working
Speaker 2: with young kids or youth and stuff like that as well,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But yeah, I don't even
Speaker 2: want to go back and do the youth work or anything.
Speaker 2: It's like fuck is you know? I tried, fucking like
Speaker 2: genuine like, I've never been one to do assignments or
Speaker 2: time assignments.
Speaker 1: For that and that would be hard starting later.
Speaker 2: Even like time to assignments where you've got to send
Speaker 2: amount of time to complete it, like or each question,
Speaker 2: it's like I've never done it. I hated schools with
Speaker 2: a passion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So what's your what's your future?
Speaker 2: Help? I want to I want to travel the world.
Speaker 2: My mum retires next year. She wants to travel, so
Speaker 2: I want to go over there and do that with
Speaker 2: the you know, I'm trying to accommodate my mom over
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 1: Is this the guilt coming out?
Speaker 2: What you put put it through? Yeah? I want to
Speaker 2: make sure she has a good life for the rest
Speaker 2: of her life. You know what I mean. She wants
Speaker 2: to travel, so we'll go to travel. We'll do that.
Speaker 2: So I just put a lot of stuff on hold
Speaker 2: till then there's a that's I'm saying. I live with
Speaker 2: the guilt rest of my life. I want to put
Speaker 2: it through poor mother.
Speaker 1: You know, well, I think when Yeah, that's a message
Speaker 1: that you've got to get across to people that the
Speaker 1: people that you Yeah, I think, what's your relationship with
Speaker 1: your brother?
Speaker 2: We don't talk at all. I don't think I planned
Speaker 2: to be like put it this way, like, I want
Speaker 2: to go outside. I'm so far away from being around
Speaker 2: drama or causing drama that I didn't even go to
Speaker 2: my own dad's funeral, you know what I mean? Because
Speaker 2: I didn't want to. Yeah, me, myer brother. It's like
Speaker 2: people think, oh he cares about this, or oh you're
Speaker 2: going to like drama with this or that's like, mate,
Speaker 2: you mean nothing to me. I didn't even go to
Speaker 2: my own dad's funeral. You reckon? I care about you,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Stay away from drama in
Speaker 2: conflict because I don't want to go back to prison
Speaker 2: or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And you think you're on that path not to not
Speaker 1: to go back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can't do it. If I go back
Speaker 2: to prison and something happens to me, mam or whatever,
Speaker 2: I would be living it. Like I was saying before,
Speaker 2: I think I had a time and more and all
Speaker 2: the consequences of potential actions.
Speaker 1: Now now you can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, back then, I wasn't. I was going full steam ahead, like, well,
Speaker 2: let's do this or that.
Speaker 1: That is a big part, isn't it. You don't understand
Speaker 1: the consequences.
Speaker 2: Get older, get older.
Speaker 1: You're thinking that this is cool, hanging hanging out with
Speaker 1: the bikeies, and look what it got you. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: have you realized if someone's pointing a loaded shotgun that
Speaker 1: years say, you haven't got the balls to do it.
Speaker 2: Hopefully never get that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, I don't know, hopefully never.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I don't put myself on those sort of
Speaker 2: particaments anymore situations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, maybe that.
Speaker 2: Ll be a Mexican stand off with like a Pokemon
Speaker 2: card or something. You know.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't realize there's so much money in the cards.
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's I think the most expensive one in
Speaker 2: the world's five point six million US day. So we
Speaker 2: got logan Paul has it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we cover a lot of topics on like
Speaker 1: catch killers, but I didn't think.
Speaker 2: We don't understand which money was in those things on cards.
Speaker 2: People understand much money.
Speaker 1: Luck Yeah, as in a this is the one and only.
Speaker 1: Well you've found your niche.
Speaker 2: I hope you're luck.
Speaker 1: Oh and I hope the future does work out for you.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you. You're coming coming on here, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope it works out for you. And give me
Speaker 1: some tips on those paperpon cards. It comes up and
Speaker 1: we're playing that. Literally, no one would have to do
Speaker 1: anything if you sold them for that. That's great.
Speaker 2: If you kept him from when I was as I
Speaker 2: tell my mom all the time. I'm like, where the
Speaker 2: funk are on my card?
Speaker 1: Why did you throw those cards?
Speaker 2: Actually throw them out? Sin on a gold one.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what the title of this podcast
Speaker 1: when we release it, The nerd who Became a Bike?
Speaker 2: That's cool.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a different, different ring on it, but good
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 2: And yeah I like that.
Speaker 1: All right, interesting tails on my catskills. Thanks for having cheers, cheers,