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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: In part two of my chat with former bikey Owen Turnbull,

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Speaker 1: we get into the heavy stuff about being a biking

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Speaker 1: There is a price to pay, and Owen talks about

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Speaker 1: that price. He talks about how his home was firebombed

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Speaker 1: and the time he shot in his home not once

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Speaker 1: but twice, going to prison and deciding this is not

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Speaker 1: the life for him. We also talk about what he

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Speaker 1: is hoping to achieve by educating young men about the

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Speaker 1: pitfalls of going down the path he did. Oh and turnbull,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part two.

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Speaker 2: Can you thank you?

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Speaker 1: I catch killers? Okay, it's a pleasure. We talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the chaos of your life and how

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Speaker 1: you end up in Bikis and the rebels and the nomads,

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Speaker 1: and your role as sergeant at arms. That bought a

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Speaker 1: bit of heat heat down on you. That lifestyle what

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about now, because it's pretty Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I won't even say current because it seems to go

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Speaker 1: on all the time, but drive by shootings that happened,

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Speaker 1: that happen on a regular basis, and part of the

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Speaker 1: gang war. We talked in part one how they can

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Speaker 1: be just over some minor.

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Speaker 2: Little social media post.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, something as simple as that. Sometimes there's not an

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Speaker 1: underlying major reason for it. That just people make stupid decisions.

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Speaker 1: But I got to say, from my observation, I think

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Speaker 1: most people when they look at look at drive by shootings,

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Speaker 1: it's cow this isn't it. Yeah, Like it doesn't take

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Speaker 1: a tough guy to drive past the place and spray

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Speaker 1: some bullets.

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Speaker 2: Bullets in there, fortunately in my Okay, So they got

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Speaker 2: out of the car and did.

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Speaker 1: It Yeah, Well, let's I want to talk in detail

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Speaker 1: because there's not many people that have had their houses

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Speaker 1: shot up and set a light. So break it down.

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Speaker 1: When was the first time your place was.

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Speaker 2: Fire and you were shot in March a little bit

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Speaker 2: about ten thirty at night?

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Speaker 1: Okay? And what what was your position in the Club

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Speaker 1: of the Nomads.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately like the other club that will be with

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Speaker 2: new where I was because I was friends with them

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Speaker 2: at one point.

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Speaker 1: So and who are you living there with?

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Speaker 2: Your dad? Was doing there? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And so what you're You're at home.

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Speaker 2: At home mum and Daddy's house. Yeah, Mum was away

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Speaker 2: at the time. And what happened, well about ten thirty

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Speaker 2: at night watching the movie and he's a big, big wolf,

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Speaker 2: like a big something that what the fuck was that?

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Speaker 2: I look at me window and there's these big flames

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Speaker 2: coming over the house. Think, oh fuck you. You go

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Speaker 2: ran outside to get around open the door, and there

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Speaker 2: was that young fella carver on the short little feller

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Speaker 2: and he's the little four ten pointed at me. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: go on there and door can't and then he did it.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking at fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with bird shot though, So it's nothing crazy, but

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Speaker 2: still hurt. It was just like the photo, like you

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Speaker 2: could see like it was just burning.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so people down and understand guns like a shotgun

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Speaker 1: so when it goes off at sprays, but the size

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Speaker 1: of the pellets make a difference in terms of the damage.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I wasn't like before, like a buck shot. It

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Speaker 2: was like a bird shot, which is like you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: like tiny little pelts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you wouldn't know.

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Speaker 2: I was fucking freaking.

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Speaker 1: I was, Oh fuck, So someone's got a shotgun pointed

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Speaker 1: at you. Yere saw and off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a shortened fourteen years so he made themselves.

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Speaker 1: You you've opened the door ten thirty at night? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what movie were you watching?

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Speaker 2: Watching Did John? I love that movie and I love

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Speaker 2: the Notebook and that too. I love that stuff. Jesus, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was just did John? I remember that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, well that that's something that we didn't expect. When

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Speaker 1: this is tough, hard Asspikey's placed up and came with

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Speaker 1: his dad watching Did John?

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Speaker 2: Was missus and.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, watching I'm thinking that's that's getting out hit.

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Speaker 1: We shouldn't laugh, yeah, but we are laughing. So your

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Speaker 1: flames going above your house. So Molotov cocktail or something

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Speaker 1: it was.

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Speaker 2: It opened up my missus car fuel thing poured like

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Speaker 2: a rag lit it up bomb. That's the thing blew

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Speaker 2: up and then accord on to my car buck and

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Speaker 2: it's come all along the front verandas and the all

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Speaker 2: the smoke damage on top the house get on fire.

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Speaker 2: So they've got me fucking trying to put out the flames.

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Speaker 1: So you'd you've jumped out of the bed, you've come out,

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Speaker 1: You run out as you would when you hear something

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Speaker 1: like that. Did you think instantaneously it's a gang related

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Speaker 1: like it's.

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Speaker 2: I knew it was about Okay, I was warned beforehand

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Speaker 2: it was going to happen, but because I thought this

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Speaker 2: kid was a blow ass all talk and I think

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Speaker 2: that whatever, but don't happen.

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Speaker 1: You've come you've come out, you run out, and your

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Speaker 1: underpants and come out, and there's a bloke there with

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Speaker 1: balaclav on and the shotgun point of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I said, I said the thirst thing I

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Speaker 2: said was go and do it. Then can't And then

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Speaker 2: he did it. So I was in displief, was like,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck.

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Speaker 1: Do you regret saying go and do it then.

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Speaker 2: Oh maybe more so if it was like a bugshot,

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Speaker 2: it'll probably be dead. Well, you would be dead.

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Speaker 1: You would would be dead. You would be dead. But

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Speaker 1: the point I'm trying to mate you didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Was too much, Adoline. I was think of just trying

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Speaker 2: to save the house.

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Speaker 1: Okay? Is that so that's just part of the persona

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Speaker 1: being the bike at the time. Fuck you are you

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Speaker 1: going to do it? If you've got the ball?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't. That's why I was. I always thought

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Speaker 2: of a knife and all that. It's more personal. I'd

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Speaker 2: rather run away from someone with a knife than a gun.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when he let the shot off, regardless of

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Speaker 1: whether it's buckshot, it would have made the hell of

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Speaker 1: a noise.

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Speaker 2: Felt that then you would kind of pushing back a

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Speaker 2: tiny bit, even though the pellets were like tiny dis believe,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck? But then he ran and all my

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Speaker 2: next thought was just like to put out the fire.

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Speaker 2: Where were you shot in the guts?

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Speaker 1: Okay? And did you did you think like quite often

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Speaker 1: when people are shot, they don't even realize they've been shot.

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Speaker 2: Did you think I didn't feel it until like a

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Speaker 2: minute or two later. I knew what happened, but I

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Speaker 2: didn't feel like that was just started burning. I feel

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Speaker 2: like someone was stabbing me with cigarettes. Fucking agony. But

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Speaker 2: a lot of the pellets fell out straight away, like

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Speaker 2: the one or two that were there was just sizzling

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Speaker 2: burning in the skin. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When when you were shot with the buckshot did you

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Speaker 1: did you have to go to the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I didn't go till like a day or

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Speaker 2: two later to get the last two pellets out.

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Speaker 1: We're just playing hard ass biking.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't talk 'spicially what I was doing. Yeah, they didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at someone.

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Speaker 2: That's it is. It's funny.

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Speaker 1: It's a crazy, crazy world. So the cops would have

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Speaker 1: turned up.

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Speaker 2: Cops could turn up within like two minutes and crazy.

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Speaker 1: They would have said, do you know what's going? They

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Speaker 1: would have known. Yeah, did you follow them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I didn't say nothing to him because I

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Speaker 2: don't know what happened, you know what I mean? Then

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Speaker 2: went out to stay there because all the smoke damage

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Speaker 2: and stuff too, So I stayed another maid of mines. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you poor dad fucking stayed there still.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how did that make you feel like you had

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Speaker 1: your lady in bed with a piece of ship.

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Speaker 2: It's like a fucking car's gone. Let pay for a

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Speaker 2: new car. Your fucking dad's gonna be like fuck. But

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Speaker 2: did you have a bit of trouble from it? So

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Speaker 2: it was more to so like fuck it. Hell, I

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Speaker 2: was just more upset about what I put the other

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Speaker 2: people through them myself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's people should look at that, because it's

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Speaker 1: all right when you're on your own, Bravardo will fuck

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Speaker 1: you pull the trigger. But people, innocent people could have

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Speaker 1: got you once a place starts going up in flames

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Speaker 1: or whatever happened. So what was what was the end

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Speaker 1: result that hit the media? And did all through the media,

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Speaker 1: please keep coming back at you, going what's going on?

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Speaker 1: We can't protect you if you don't talk to us,

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Speaker 1: that type of stuff.

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Speaker 2: It was all through the media, and then tried to

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Speaker 2: keep it hidden from you, mum, like I was saying.

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, fucker's big up about that. She need

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Speaker 2: lost a job after that first one.

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Speaker 1: So with that, you've been in the gang. What was

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Speaker 1: the consequences of that was?

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Speaker 2: And I obviously had to hit back and we did.

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Speaker 2: That was in the news to you.

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Speaker 1: Did has that all been resolved through the courts or

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Speaker 1: or just any one of them.

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Speaker 2: The four boy young kids that the fellas that did

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Speaker 2: mine all snitched on each other. Right, So, and I

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Speaker 2: was in there at the time when the one who

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Speaker 2: shot me come in and he didn't come to the mains.

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Speaker 2: He was he went to protection, got bashed.

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Speaker 1: Are you you were in prison?

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Speaker 2: Ended up coming in. Yeah, he got for that. He

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Speaker 2: got bashed, did come the mains, preture, got bashed like

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Speaker 2: broken jaw, and he got sent to strict protection, which

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Speaker 2: is like for rapists and pedals and stuff. He was

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Speaker 2: down there, he was too scared to come on the mains.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that that was that was part of the

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Speaker 1: gang payback.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And they all rolled on each other after doing

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Speaker 2: that to my house. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, as we said, I don't think it takes

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Speaker 1: much courage fire.

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Speaker 2: Shots, say I reckon. It's a lot of easy to

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Speaker 2: pull a trigger, that is, to stab someone, most definitely. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So that that was the first time, what was the

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Speaker 2: first one, and a lot of tip for tat we're

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Speaker 2: going at them back at us. And the second time

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Speaker 2: it happened to.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to spark off more more conflict,

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Speaker 1: but that was just rivalry between.

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Speaker 2: It was basically people that weren't even like really part

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Speaker 2: of the drama and the beef. We're getting involved, getting

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Speaker 2: touched up and stuff for it all because.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot going on in Camber at the time.

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Speaker 2: It was not huge, always in the news, always in

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Speaker 2: the news. And then the second time would happened, it

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Speaker 2: was fucking they come in. They had more way more

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Speaker 2: heavy artillery. So like I didn't answer the door, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have time to answer the door. I heard another

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Speaker 2: big wolf.

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Speaker 1: How long after the first one.

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Speaker 2: It would have been about a month. So I had

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Speaker 2: fixed all the house up, painted all the front, the front,

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Speaker 2: like everything like that. I got it all cleaned up,

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Speaker 2: paid all the money, and that happens again, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 2: of fox sake, I'm over this shit. It's like I

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Speaker 2: heard another big wolf at night, like a big boom,

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Speaker 2: and then I walked out. There's even more stuff on

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Speaker 2: fire than the fucking last time. And I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: that the guns they used one was there was like

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Speaker 2: a forty five and a nine mill and they fucking

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Speaker 2: found one of the bullets, like traveled through my parents' room,

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Speaker 2: through their bathroom, through the family room into my bathroom

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Speaker 2: at the end of the house like a cupboard. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: just before the bathroom enlidged in a fucking one of

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Speaker 2: my old photo albums. So if anyone was in that

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Speaker 2: fuck that's when I went outside. All the cops were

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Speaker 2: there within fucking minutes. It's world how that happens. How

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Speaker 2: they're there within minutes, And I detective goes, mister Turble,

248
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Speaker 2: someone could have been fucking murdered.

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Speaker 1: Look what are you doing?

250
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Speaker 2: And look what are your calls? And I think, fuck,

251
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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But I'm thinking, like they did,

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Speaker 2: the trajectory of the bullet and my dad in bed

253
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Speaker 2: and my mom, and they said if my mom was

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Speaker 2: in the bed at the time, she would have been hit,

255
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Speaker 2: And I'm thinking it more than likely would have died.

256
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Speaker 2: You know, you don't know. I wouldn't want to take

257
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Speaker 2: that chance.

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Speaker 1: When your second attack, when it was fire bombed, you

259
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Speaker 1: said there was more damage. What was it? What was

260
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Speaker 1: done to it?

261
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,520
Speaker 2: This time? There was way more smoke damage that came

262
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Speaker 2: all in through the house. Yeah, Like the whole ceilings

263
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,959
Speaker 2: were all black, the every all the bushes and trees

264
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Speaker 2: out the front all gone, burnt, burnt, to a crisp

265
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Speaker 2: the wood like the concrete porch, and then you got there,

266
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Speaker 2: like the wood, I don't know what they're holding up

267
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Speaker 2: the thing all burnt, like just hanging by a thread,

268
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Speaker 2: like the front of the roof was hanging down.

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Speaker 1: Seems like the whole place could have burnt.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they had There was a couple of joy cans,

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Speaker 2: and they had the gas barbecue gas things what they called,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Like obviously they

273
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Speaker 2: didn't understand like there was it was still smoke and

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Speaker 2: shooting out of flame and I'm grabbing that tron. The

275
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Speaker 2: gas bottles, Yeah, gas bottles. They didn't They didn't explode though.

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Speaker 1: To me that yeah, if I was looking at it

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Speaker 1: from a homicide to take this point of view, that

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Speaker 1: that's a real intent to do some serious damage.

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Speaker 2: To gas bottles. Yeah, then it didn't explode though. They'll

280
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Speaker 2: turned on obviously because you see the fucking fire pissing

281
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Speaker 2: out of the top.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to wanted to keep you.

283
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,840
Speaker 2: That would have done some damage. And then there's two

284
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Speaker 2: Jerry cans, then the high powered Yeah, whether they chuck

285
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Speaker 2: forty five bullets into a nine moments, I don't know.

286
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Speaker 1: How many? How many thoughts were shot?

287
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Speaker 2: Five? It's not a full kip or anything, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy crazy times. Okay, breaking it down a couple

289
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Speaker 1: of things. Observations I make from that. They've had to

290
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Speaker 1: go at you the first time? Yeah, get it didn't

291
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Speaker 1: get you. They're going to do it properly this time. Yeah,

292
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Speaker 1: come back with more pistols. Yeah, So how did that

293
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Speaker 1: de escalate? Because that's just building up? Like, what were

294
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Speaker 1: you thinking? Like, I'm thinking, if someone's trying to kill me,

295
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,320
Speaker 1: back at them? What was going through your mind?

296
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Speaker 2: I was going to fucking getting back at them, but

297
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Speaker 2: then I got locked up? Yeah?

298
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Speaker 1: Is that a good thing in hindsight?

299
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say so fucking I'd prefer to be in

300
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 2: jail for a short stint than I would for maybe

301
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Speaker 2: possibly shooting someone, hitting them and stuff.

302
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's your take on all these drive by shootings?

303
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,959
Speaker 1: You think there is as cowardly as what's gone on

304
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 1: with your place.

305
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,040
Speaker 2: I think drive wat shings it's always like you, I

306
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 2: don't think the intent is to ever hit someone, but

307
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 2: sometimes you can, and then your intent isn't there to

308
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 2: hit them, and then you're just this young kid like

309
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,480
Speaker 2: then told to do something, want to look tough, shoot

310
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 2: up some bricks school and then you've accidentally shot someone

311
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Speaker 2: through a window, and then your whole life's fucked and

312
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 2: what have you thrown it away for nothing? Just looked tough,

313
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 2: so cool, you're tougher than me, I was tougher than you,

314
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 2: or stuff like that. You know what I mean. It's

315
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 2: pretty fucking silly in my opinion.

316
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Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad that's that's your opinion. But how

317
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: did you feel about yourself? But because you potentially yeah,

318
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Speaker 1: put your people that you're loving.

319
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was minding give a fuck about myself

320
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 2: at that time. I was just more upset about me,

321
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 2: fucking like me, possibly you mum getting hurt like he's

322
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 2: she was away on deployment or something like that. Otherwise,

323
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 2: like fun, I won't be able to live myself. We devastated.

324
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Speaker 2: We fucking imagine that you haven't seen mother because you

325
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 2: want to be a tough boy in a gang. Yeah,

326
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 2: so you fucking you go and tip tap being tough,

327
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 2: who's who's tougher? I'm tougher than you, because you know

328
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 2: what I mean? And then your mum's getten shot and

329
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 2: possibly killed for what because you fucking want to be

330
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 2: tougher over social media or something like that.

331
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Speaker 1: So how did you how did you break away from

332
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 1: the game?

333
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 2: Slowly started like thinking. I was like, wait, that was

334
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,120
Speaker 2: a wake up call. It was like the fuck you know,

335
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 2: I'm practically leaving and like these kinds don't give a fuck,

336
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 2: like they didn't care.

337
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 1: So the shootings were after you before before before.

338
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like they don't even give a fuck about me,

339
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like it's awkward to be right, brother,

340
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, You're going to pay more

341
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 2: money to fix this or stuff like that, and I

342
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,760
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna quietly leave, you know what i mean.

343
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 2: Gave him war me club gears. I'm going on a break.

344
00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 1: You quit when you're inside? Yeah, okay, and what's the

345
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,840
Speaker 1: process it? I would type up a resignation.

346
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 2: All five of us left in jail.

347
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 1: Left you just made it clear we're.

348
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 2: Not we're done with you. So yeah, just like now

349
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 2: we had enough and like just being Yeah.

350
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: Is there any any consequences of walking out like the.

351
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 2: Way you did? No, not for me, No, yeah, because

352
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 2: of the position, like the normally position you leave.

353
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 1: You're still writing I've ridden.

354
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: In years, probably since before even prison was.

355
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 1: That part of the attraction in the in the bikis

356
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: when you're all you go on the annual runs.

357
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 2: And you look cool, you think you do, but like

358
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,440
Speaker 2: a lot of time people are just like fuck with you.

359
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 2: It's like he's got all these we just call my

360
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,680
Speaker 2: country bikes. They'd be like late fifties fucking walking around

361
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 2: in club gear and stuff, and I think they're the toughest,

362
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 2: all the baddest guys. And you get like young guns

363
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 2: like me, you just be like looking at it like

364
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 2: you're a fucking loser, you know.

365
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you get you get out of prison, What

366
00:16:58,520 --> 00:16:58,960
Speaker 1: did you do?

367
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,000
Speaker 2: I went and got pizza because I was already set.

368
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,920
Speaker 2: I was I got up early, freshened up. When I

369
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 2: got out, I was fucking lean because I was a

370
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 2: training every day. I was eating right in prison, tuna rice.

371
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,359
Speaker 2: There's no breeds in there, you know what I mean.

372
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 2: Went got a pizza, and then the day after that

373
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 2: is when I went and booked myself in for COT

374
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:21,399
Speaker 2: to start.

375
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: So you walked out with all the intent I'm not

376
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 1: going back in the gates, Shah.

377
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 2: I went got a pizza because I had pizza in years,

378
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,719
Speaker 2: and then then the day after that, I signed up

379
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,920
Speaker 2: for the start of the semester in the February, but

380
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 2: I got out in the late October, so a couple

381
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,679
Speaker 2: of months. But between then and starting school, I was

382
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 2: working for my mate. So I got out and started

383
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 2: work within two days as well. So I want to

384
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 2: keep active because I had a great routine in prison,

385
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 2: but it's hard to keep that same routine when you

386
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 2: get out.

387
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: As in the Staying Fit.

388
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 2: Safe, I'd get up at a certain time, get up,

389
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 2: go to a bed at ten, get up a train,

390
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 2: and then when you get out, like you can do

391
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: it for a bit, and then life gets gets in

392
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 2: the way, you know what I mean.

393
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: Well, that's part of being institutionalized too, isn't it. You're

394
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 1: getting that regiment.

395
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I genuinely loved it, okay, because there's like

396
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,439
Speaker 2: up train, eat bed, you can you could, you can

397
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 2: try and do it out here.

398
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,959
Speaker 1: It was too hard, too many complications when you're out

399
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 1: in the real wars.

400
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 2: When I got out as well, stopped like the lights

401
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 2: with my mate, pressed the button and we went. He

402
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 2: went to walk a christ and he's like, what are

403
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 2: you doing? I was like, I was waiting to get

404
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 2: told to go.

405
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: Right, So that's another impact.

406
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 2: I was waiting the lights and he's like, what are

407
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 2: you doing?

408
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: Hurry up?

409
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,440
Speaker 2: I'm like what, oh ship, I was waiting to get

410
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:41,919
Speaker 2: told to go.

411
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck, that's another impact. You do just

412
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,360
Speaker 1: get conditioned to Yeah, being told what to do, when

413
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: to do, and.

414
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 2: How to do it. I was like, because there's no

415
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,120
Speaker 2: way that's gonna happened to me, you know what I mean?

416
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 2: It only last couple of weeks though for me it did.

417
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: But the humans are adaptable. But you get in that environment,

418
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 2: you do become compliant because waiting to get told to

419
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 2: go through a door or walk forward backwards.

420
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you get you get out of prison, what's

421
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 1: your what's your your plans? You said you did those courses.

422
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 2: My thing was gonna like full go to school, work

423
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 2: with the youth, or work like a youth justice center

424
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 2: or something like that. So the only reason I got

425
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 2: parole was because one of my best mates put up

426
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 2: that I could sleep on his food on. So I

427
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 2: slept on a food toon for like a year. Because

428
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 2: I couldn't be with my parents or anyone. I didn't

429
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 2: have anywhere else to stay. So my mate, one of

430
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 2: my best mates, Wade, put it up for me that

431
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 2: I could stay with him for a bit, let me

432
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: live there rent free. I worked freem with the tattoo

433
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 2: shop while I was going to school, so I was

434
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: getting paid like money every week and going to school.

435
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 2: So I did all the practice, like the assessments that

436
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 2: it was over two semesters, so two terms and three

437
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 2: and four, passed them all, did all the group ones.

438
00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 2: And then when it comes to the workplace when I

439
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 2: wasn't able to do it because I couldn't get a

440
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: work in all a person's card, It's like the fuck,

441
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like give me a chance.

442
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: At least did that sort of set back because I

443
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 1: hear a lot of the blakes.

444
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of fell back into like just drinking

445
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: a bit more and s somethimes like what the fuck

446
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 2: am I doing? You know what I mean? Nothing else,

447
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 2: It's like cool. I tried my artists and then they

448
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: just told me to funk off basically, you know what

449
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 2: I mean, but like doing the course't me like like

450
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 2: a funk with anything about like you got these They

451
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 2: had no idea that I've been to prison or who

452
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: I was or didn't know that. God didn't say nothing,

453
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 2: and they talked about, oh, talk about this is what

454
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 2: happens in prison, and this is what you got to do,

455
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: and this you know, this is blah blah. I'm thinking,

456
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 2: you can't. You fuckings have no idea about anything. You've

457
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 2: fucking seen this stuff on a TV show. We've read

458
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 2: watching too many fucking fake YouTube videos or some shit

459
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,239
Speaker 2: you got. That's not how it happens at all, or

460
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: how anything goes down in there. I think, would you

461
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 2: rather talk to me the guy, the kid who's been

462
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: there and been through it, done it, or and wants

463
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,919
Speaker 2: to change, or someone that's never touched drugs in their

464
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: life or has not lived any gang through outlaw lifestyle

465
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: telling you what you should be doing, you know what

466
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 2: I mean. So I got I was very rather resentful

467
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 2: of it, like I'm trying. I'm trying here, and you

468
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 2: don't give me anything with that.

469
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: And I understand what you're saying, and I agree with

470
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: your wholeheartedly. I think lived experience coming to young blokes,

471
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: they sort of there is open up and they actually

472
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: actually listen. But I've seen a lot of blokes that

473
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: have had you tried to go on the straight and

474
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,120
Speaker 1: narrow had had that set back in what they've formed,

475
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: And you're describing what happened to you, what kept you

476
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: on the straight and narrow still bothered in the right direction?

477
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 1: What was the turning?

478
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 2: Fucking mum was like you saw something because I was

479
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: like falling back into some stupid shit, you know, yeah,

480
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: I was just like, fucking I've actually tried here, like

481
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, I've write and doing assignment's coursework,

482
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 2: which I've never done, you know what I mean. And

483
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 2: then it's like, fuck, you can't do this. I was like, fuck,

484
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 2: what do I do? You know what I mean? Because well,

485
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: so then I started caring for me grandmother for like

486
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: two years. So I cared for her and looked after

487
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 2: her for two years, and then she passed away and

488
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: then I was like, fun, what I'm gonna do now.

489
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: It's like it's kind of after COVID or during COVID,

490
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: remember happened and the big thing in COVID was like

491
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: sports cards and Pokemon cards. You told me stuff talk

492
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: because I'm not quite thinking fuck, you know what I mean,

493
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: Like I don't I can't go to school. I kind

494
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: of get a work in a vulnerable person's card. So

495
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 2: I'll try and make a job out of this. I

496
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: had some old sports cards, like graded cards like Lebron

497
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: James Rookie, Stephen Curry Rookie, old Pokemon cards from when

498
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: I was a kid. I used to collect them before

499
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: I was a big bad biking You know what I mean.

500
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: You said you're in the Yeah.

501
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: I used to play video games, fucking Warcraft all that

502
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: ship and I love it. But then if I say

503
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: now to be from the mud, to get dirty, you

504
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But I was doing all that.

505
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: Then the Pokemon cards, I think I've seen like these

506
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: influences and stuff. They're selling these Pokemon cards for hundreds

507
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 2: of thousands and sports cards for ten twenty thirty thousand. Fuck,

508
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: I might have something here. So I hug my opened

509
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 2: a business. I opened a business account, got my name

510
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 2: all registered and stuff like that. I saw my first card, Yeah,

511
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: for sixteen thousand dollars. It was a Lebron James Rookie card.

512
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: So that's from then on. I've just been it's been

513
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 2: about three years now. I've been doing this beautiful and

514
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: then I happened to get the NURL job. During the

515
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 2: whole time. So how did how well?

516
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: First of all, how does it feel like earning an

517
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: honest living?

518
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: It's good, Like that's like I'm saying, like bagging thegit money.

519
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 2: I got to pay tax for the first time in life.

520
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: That figured out how to do that. Yeah, And then

521
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: like they still I was making all this money, like

522
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: they thought I was sending texts to people I've got

523
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 2: Canada and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, I want

524
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 2: you want this one, bro or this one. And the

525
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 2: cops had my phone buked. We've got rated once since

526
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 2: I've got out, and they thinking was they thought it

527
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 2: was like talk for drugs. This is like a legitimate

528
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: Pokemon guardian. There's like a Charis or a picture or

529
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: a Lebron James or something. So there's no code here.

530
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: They hit me and raided me. The first time I've

531
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 2: been raided. I was like a relief or whatever. I

532
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: go for it. They didn't get no, they took a

533
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: lot of ship, but I got everything back, Like even

534
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: my one of my best mates, who I meant Afro

535
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 2: got out of prisony brot me a role X for

536
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: my birthday, got that back, got everything back the first

537
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: time I've been raided and hadn't been locked up. We'll

538
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: let go. It's the best feelin ever winner. Literally, I

539
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: was like, thank god. I was like, it's like you fuckers,

540
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I was like, you're intel

541
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: must be horrible. Well you think I'm talking about drugs,

542
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: I'm talking about basketball. Okay, Well in defense of the cops.

543
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: So I was after a group of contract killers that

544
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: used Telly tubbies really as that was. They called each

545
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: other by Telly Tubby names. But anyway, okay, So you're

546
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: paying the taxes, you've been raided, and you're for the

547
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: first time you've been raided, and you've been in the right,

548
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: and you've got up and you got all the got

549
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: the all stuff stuff bad.

550
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: Didn't get locked up, got everything back? Yeah. Good.

551
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: The NRL, how you doing talks with and what we're

552
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: talking about here is you doing talks with the junior

553
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: teams in the NR clubs?

554
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 2: That gang exit thing with Dom from Queensland. He's been

555
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: amazing and it's helped me with so much. Give opportunities.

556
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: He's in the in the cops and he's he's seen

557
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: the potential that you've got for you can get across.

558
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: I've got to him with that Ben Gappert who's ex

559
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: Hells Angel and that other fellow from the Titans.

560
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: How did you feel when they asked you to do that?

561
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 2: It was I was like, I'm a dog their deadlocks.

562
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: They got some other guy and who's recording mate? You're

563
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: just telling your story from your point of view and

564
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: how it happened, Like you're not telling anyone, Okay, I

565
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: see them all like that. So yeah, this is from there.

566
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 2: I just tell my story. It's come out, and yeah,

567
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: it took a couple of years for it to come out.

568
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: What's the purpose of what do they want to do

569
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: with those videos? Get them out to.

570
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: Just the youth trying just like it's not worth it

571
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: joining you know what I mean, got a lot to

572
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: live for. Yeah, there's more to life and I mean

573
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: biking well it's not struggling.

574
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: It's a good lesson for everyone, not just Bikey's like

575
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: any gangs, like for your life are away as a

576
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: young fella. So it's a powerful message. So there was

577
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: a bit of reluctance on your behalf because and misguided

578
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: because you're not you're not being a dog or an informant,

579
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: but you're just saying, well, everyone.

580
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: Fucking has their own opinions. You always guys are dog always this.

581
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: It's like you're idea.

582
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well look, I've had blokes on plenty of x

583
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: EX members on the podcast, and.

584
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: You're people talking shit that have no idea about that

585
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: life or anything. Yeah.

586
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, there's always a bit of a fray

587
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: back that what are you doing speaking to a next cop?

588
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: But I think the point is you're just informing people

589
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: this is this is what happens in the world.

590
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: You've got a dog just talked to a cop, you

591
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: know what I mean? That's a thing in jail, you

592
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: call someone a dog. You've got to produce that paperwork

593
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 2: or you're getting your fucking head keeved in. Yeah, there's

594
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: there's nothing like jail. Rules are different, but like, there's

595
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: no thing out here like that. People the repercussions of

596
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: saying that.

597
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: So, after you did the video and you saw it

598
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: go out there, how did you how did you feel?

599
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: I haven't watched it. I can't hate my voice. I

600
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: watched I watch a couple of them, but yeah, after

601
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: a while, watched that. But yeah, it's kind of weird

602
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: watching that ship for me.

603
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: It was a powerful for you.

604
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I was watching myself talk and stuff,

605
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 2: you know, just be weird.

606
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: For me, it's confronting. I'm still fine the same thing

607
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: doing doing this stuff.

608
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: Loved it though, like mats and ship. So it was awesome.

609
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: That's the point, I guess.

610
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: And and people within the gangs respected you for what

611
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: you're doing.

612
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have nothing to say about it. Cool, I

613
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: Woulder said. Anyway, so I'm to do my own thing,

614
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, more than by any fucking

615
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: bikey rules or anything. I'm a normal citizen. Yeah, an outlaw.

616
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you're paying taxes. Yeah that's a pain.

617
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: But anyway, it's the worst.

618
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: The n r L.

619
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: So how did you How Dom asked me to do

620
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: another talk, which was in Melbourne in front of it

621
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: like American DA agents. I don't know, I don't know what

622
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: it's for, but they wanted, like an ex bike you

623
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: come and talk his life. So I talked about my

624
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: upbringing and how I went from like potential first grader

625
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: to becoming a biking and all that kind of stuff.

626
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 2: And we've got to chat and after my talk and

627
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: connected from there, and that's how I got the gig,

628
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: like literally just right place, right time, by chance. Because

629
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: at one point I was going to tell Dom I

630
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 2: didn't want to go, so lucky I said, Lucky, I

631
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: just fucking just sucked it up and went.

632
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: And what was your reluctant s You just didn't want

633
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: to speaking public?

634
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really like it that much, but once

635
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: I get into it, I'm sweet. Like as long as

636
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: you're like you make him laugh and you get you

637
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: know what I mean, they get a bit just comfy,

638
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: but yourself. Yeah, yeah, But I was like, I'm happy

639
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: I did it because if I didn't do it, it's like

640
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: a lot of things in my life. I just lucky

641
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: I just did it. Otherwise wouldn't have got a lot

642
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: of opportunities.

643
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: So you spoke down there, you must have left an impression.

644
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: Then you got invited to speak to NRL class. Tell

645
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: us about what message?

646
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: And you're ringing?

647
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: Who's your all? That?

648
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: Like the junior is like a lot of the boys

649
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: have just got their first contracts, Like what what like

650
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: what to watch out for? Like don't get used, watch

651
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: be cautious. Who's hanging around hanging around with taking photos,

652
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 2: with uploading on social media? Like just like basically stuff

653
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: that or what I went through as younger youngers, like

654
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 2: staying away from the bio keys and stuff like that.

655
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: And how when you say used, how young footballers used

656
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: once they start to get a profile or will eventually

657
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: get a profile.

658
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: Money, So it's easy to make money off of you

659
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Yes, someone's on two hundred k

660
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: fifty k year, they can they can afford a couple

661
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: of balls a week cocaine, you know what I mean?

662
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: Free money?

663
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: And do you talk about your your drug side of

664
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: things that stuffed up your your.

665
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: Chances of Yeah, I didn't even judge alcoholtel sixteen yeah,

666
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: and then off the rails the MDMA pills.

667
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: Do you think they're listening to the young blokes.

668
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: Like when you're younger, you like look at someone like

669
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: the fuck up? You know, you're all full of ship.

670
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: I was like, I said that to be it's not

671
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: thinking I'm full of shit. You know, I've been in

672
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: your shoes. I've both sat where you are and I

673
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: thought the same thing. And then a couple of bulldogs

674
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: unions come to me after we actually googled you, you

675
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So I sat and chatted with

676
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: them for about an hour, two hours, eleven o'clock at night.

677
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: This was a two day thing, the rookie camp. But yeah,

678
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: it's good, I.

679
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: Say, yeah, they're the rookie camp and the media training

680
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: and what of the type of things they're asking you

681
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: when they come up and talked to you.

682
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: I think they like it. They're like me because it's

683
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: I'm just like laid back and just got a question.

684
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: I'll answer it. Nothing to hide, like one of the boys,

685
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But you get a lot

686
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: of these talkers that are real stuck up or pretentious,

687
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: like I'm better than you because I've done this, I'll

688
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: turn my life friends.

689
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, death by powerpoints, Yeah, something like that.

690
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: You have to lecturing. Lecturing, Yeah, lecturing. They fucking hate that.

691
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: So you think it's having having an impact.

692
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 2: On Yeah, yes and no. I guess I don't know.

693
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: I'd say yeah, but it was to say no because

694
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: like young kids are money, gonna do what they want anyway.

695
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: And then you know, it's like me, I didn't realize

696
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: the causing my actions and all the repercussions until I

697
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: got older and looking back as like, fuck, I should

698
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: have done a lot of things differently.

699
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: But if you can. You can just change one life

700
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: that's worth well, you think.

701
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: It's like there's like one of the young fellows, the

702
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: Young Boys in their mission on Instagram every now and

703
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: then talks's from Melbourne.

704
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: Good kid, one of the young guys.

705
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, good kids. Families associated with his brothers and he's

706
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 2: not what do I do? You know what I mean?

707
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: It's like, you can't pick your family. As long as

708
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: you're honest with the club and stuff. It's like, you're

709
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: not gonna get in trouble, you know what I mean.

710
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: It's your fault that your family members in that part

711
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: of life, Like, nah, you're not gonna get in trouble.

712
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: So he talks to me every now and then stuff

713
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: still talk to me and I don't work anymore for

714
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: the in all things.

715
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's good that that's worth and that that

716
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: I can imagine the advice because they would be their

717
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: kids are intimidating, they're dealing with bikeies.

718
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: What am I going to do?

719
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: But if you and that's a way of navigating their

720
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: way through it, just be honest with the bikes and us.

721
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: With the club too. But like your own your football club,

722
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get in trouble for saying the unit,

723
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: but it's the better thing that you're telling them ahead

724
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: of time if anything happens anyway. Yeah, yeah, it looks

725
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 2: like your fault that someone else is in a bike club.

726
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: So reflecting that back on your life, do you feel

727
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the crimes that you committed?

728
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: Do you do you regret it?

729
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do, because there's like a lot of times

730
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: where you do things in public and they'd be like

731
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: a young young little boy or young girl. They're just

732
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: chilling with their family or something and they've watched it

733
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: happen or go down in public, because you'd know, in

734
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: something in public, it just like that just switches as

735
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: on like that then got people get in the way,

736
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: you know, I feel about it. That's your little kids

737
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: and that watching.

738
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: That's I'm glad you said that. I hadn't really thought

739
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: about it from that that point inter view. But yeah,

740
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: the impact and everyone seen bikey's inflict violence in public terrifies.

741
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: People, especially on the bandidos. And was it the Broadbeach one? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

742
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: that was a big one.

743
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was well everyone for everyone, Well, I think,

744
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: and I've said it on the podcast quite quite a bit,

745
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: but the airport with the Commonero's and Hell's Angels that

746
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: I was in gang squad at that point in time,

747
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: and that's when enough is enough. That's when they brought

748
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: the heat down on them, every member across the country

749
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: because because of that. Okay, what do you think I'm

750
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: asking asking you here? What would you say to a

751
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: young blake that's about to you? Personally? You've given us

752
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: the story. But if some young blake came up for

753
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: you and said, I'm I'm going to join the gangs,

754
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: I don't give a fuck what you think. What what's

755
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: your response to im?

756
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: Just just a little the ship that I went through

757
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: and I put my parents in that three hours? Like

758
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: you really want to go through all that? You know?

759
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: I mean I lost great girlfriends, great friends, all because

760
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: of my associations with the bikes or because of what

761
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: happened to them like car blown up? It's like how

762
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: do you repair that? And they're going to be like

763
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: you had to say this, Look, do you really want

764
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: to go through everything that I did? I will potentially

765
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: go through everything that I did and had to deal with, mate,

766
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, imagine my mom had

767
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: got hit and killed. Have to live with that for

768
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. No, No, that's what I

769
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: was saying in prisons. I can't. I will never go

770
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: back because if I ever go back and then my

771
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: mom passes away while I'm in there, I would fucking

772
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 2: be the worst thing, you know, and I wouldn't be

773
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: able to live with it. It's like, are you able

774
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: to live with all these consequences from your actions? Like

775
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 2: imagine you're in jail, your grandmother, your love passes away,

776
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: and you got to you got to ask permission to

777
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 2: go to a funeral, and then you get the permission

778
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 2: that you can't where suit You're still gonna be in

779
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: a jumpsuit, handcuffed with two screws either side, like you

780
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 2: had to live with all that kinds of shit.

781
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: Good messaging. What do you love the mate so you

782
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: prepared to hurt them? Because that's basically what you.

783
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: And you don't realize all of the time how much

784
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: you do genuinely love your parents or your things till

785
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: something happens to them and you're like fuck and you

786
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: can't fix that.

787
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: What about the pathways out of prison? I've spoken with

788
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: a lot of blokes that have been inside blakes and

789
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: women that have been inside. How difficult it is to

790
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: go on the straight and narrow. You said earlier on

791
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: in either part one or this part that you had

792
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: good people around you. How much difference did that make?

793
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: I was lucky. I had a good support network of

794
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: good friends who are very straight and eighty family as

795
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: much as they could help. But like, it was mostly

796
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: just really good friends or people that I was friends

797
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: with before I was a biking. You know what I mean.

798
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: Have you reconnected with those people?

799
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah? Everyone? All my good mates who visit me in

800
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: prison once, I'm still very close with now. Yeah. Like

801
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: I said, I didn't go to see a lot of

802
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: the people. The people when they get out of prison,

803
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: they want to be your friend. So I didn't go

804
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: to jail to make friends, man, you know what I mean.

805
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: And then and I also said, as soon as got

806
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: out of prison, I didn't want to make any new friends.

807
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: I've got almost good friends here and that's how I've

808
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: always been since.

809
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: Well, the quality of people are the ones when you're

810
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: in the ship that stand up for you.

811
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Back especially, I wouldn't have been wouldn't even got parole.

812
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: Wasn't for that good made of mine, let him let

813
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: me sleep on his foot on for a year and

814
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: giving me a job, you know what I mean, So

815
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: just help me get back on my feet. Yeah, yeah,

816
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: that's like the good quard your mates, you know what

817
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: I mean?

818
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: What about in prison? There is there anything that you

819
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: made a decision? Is there anything more they can do

820
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: in prison to get people to wake up or is

821
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: it there's nothing that's complicated.

822
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 2: It's they say they do, but it's like, you do

823
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: these courses in prison, but they don't have They don't

824
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: help you when you get out unless you're doing like

825
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: a UNI degree for like you're there for ten years,

826
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: you're doing like a barbership course or a barbers like

827
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: a barber course or whatever. Like there's nothing in there

828
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: when I was in there. Now at the AMC, they've

829
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: got PlayStation xboxes, inter the switches and stuff, which I

830
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: reckon is a good thing and keeps the boys occupied

831
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: in their minds elsewhere from wanting to punch on and

832
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: stab people or do drugs.

833
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: Well, you want you want people that come out of

834
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: the prison to be able to simulate back in the society.

835
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: So you've got to give them the skills and they're.

836
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: Lucky for me a good support network to do all that.

837
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't, you know what I mean,

838
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 2: But a lot of people don't want to change either.

839
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: You know, unless you want it, you're never going to

840
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: want to do it.

841
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, some people choose the life and that's the

842
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: life they want to live. But I'm seeing in New

843
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: South Wales and I think across the country in some places,

844
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: they're making difference with the way they're doing prison making

845
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: making it so you can get the education and preparing

846
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: you're better for coming out. But when you come out

847
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: it's not easier either.

848
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: Like I was saying, like I didn't even I didn't

849
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: even need to work in a onetable person's card or

850
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 2: any qualifications to do the NROL job. And that's working

851
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: with young kids or youth and stuff like that as well,

852
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But yeah, I don't even

853
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 2: want to go back and do the youth work or anything.

854
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: It's like fuck is you know? I tried, fucking like

855
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: genuine like, I've never been one to do assignments or

856
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: time assignments.

857
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: For that and that would be hard starting later.

858
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: Even like time to assignments where you've got to send

859
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 2: amount of time to complete it, like or each question,

860
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: it's like I've never done it. I hated schools with

861
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: a passion.

862
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So what's your what's your future?

863
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 2: Help? I want to I want to travel the world.

864
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: My mum retires next year. She wants to travel, so

865
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: I want to go over there and do that with

866
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: the you know, I'm trying to accommodate my mom over

867
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: a lot.

868
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: Is this the guilt coming out?

869
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: What you put put it through? Yeah? I want to

870
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: make sure she has a good life for the rest

871
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: of her life. You know what I mean. She wants

872
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: to travel, so we'll go to travel. We'll do that.

873
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 2: So I just put a lot of stuff on hold

874
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: till then there's a that's I'm saying. I live with

875
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: the guilt rest of my life. I want to put

876
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: it through poor mother.

877
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: You know, well, I think when Yeah, that's a message

878
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: that you've got to get across to people that the

879
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: people that you Yeah, I think, what's your relationship with

880
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: your brother?

881
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 2: We don't talk at all. I don't think I planned

882
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: to be like put it this way, like, I want

883
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: to go outside. I'm so far away from being around

884
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: drama or causing drama that I didn't even go to

885
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 2: my own dad's funeral, you know what I mean? Because

886
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: I didn't want to. Yeah, me, myer brother. It's like

887
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: people think, oh he cares about this, or oh you're

888
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 2: going to like drama with this or that's like, mate,

889
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: you mean nothing to me. I didn't even go to

890
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: my own dad's funeral. You reckon? I care about you,

891
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Stay away from drama in

892
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 2: conflict because I don't want to go back to prison

893
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: or anything like that.

894
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 1: And you think you're on that path not to not

895
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 1: to go back.

896
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can't do it. If I go back

897
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: to prison and something happens to me, mam or whatever,

898
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 2: I would be living it. Like I was saying before,

899
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: I think I had a time and more and all

900
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: the consequences of potential actions.

901
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: Now now you can.

902
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, back then, I wasn't. I was going full steam ahead, like, well,

903
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 2: let's do this or that.

904
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: That is a big part, isn't it. You don't understand

905
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: the consequences.

906
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: Get older, get older.

907
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: You're thinking that this is cool, hanging hanging out with

908
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: the bikeies, and look what it got you. Yeah, and

909
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: have you realized if someone's pointing a loaded shotgun that

910
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: years say, you haven't got the balls to do it.

911
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: Hopefully never get that.

912
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, I don't know, hopefully never.

913
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I don't put myself on those sort of

914
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: particaments anymore situations.

915
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, maybe that.

916
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: Ll be a Mexican stand off with like a Pokemon

917
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: card or something. You know.

918
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't realize there's so much money in the cards.

919
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: But anyway, that's I think the most expensive one in

920
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: the world's five point six million US day. So we

921
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 2: got logan Paul has it.

922
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we cover a lot of topics on like

923
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: catch killers, but I didn't think.

924
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 2: We don't understand which money was in those things on cards.

925
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 2: People understand much money.

926
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: Luck Yeah, as in a this is the one and only.

927
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: Well you've found your niche.

928
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: I hope you're luck.

929
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: Oh and I hope the future does work out for you.

930
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you. You're coming coming on here, and yeah,

931
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: I hope it works out for you. And give me

932
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: some tips on those paperpon cards. It comes up and

933
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: we're playing that. Literally, no one would have to do

934
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: anything if you sold them for that. That's great.

935
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: If you kept him from when I was as I

936
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: tell my mom all the time. I'm like, where the

937
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: funk are on my card?

938
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: Why did you throw those cards?

939
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: Actually throw them out? Sin on a gold one.

940
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what the title of this podcast

941
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: when we release it, The nerd who Became a Bike?

942
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: That's cool.

943
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a different, different ring on it, but good

944
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: on you.

945
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 2: And yeah I like that.

946
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: All right, interesting tails on my catskills. Thanks for having cheers, cheers,