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Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installing the You Project.

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Speaker 1: It's bloody harps, as it is every time. I hope

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Speaker 1: one day, one day, maybe it'll an episode will happen

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Speaker 1: and somebody else will be here. They'll say all those words,

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Speaker 1: but they'll say it's Brian or it's Tip. It could

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Speaker 1: be anyone who knows. But for the time being, you've

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Speaker 1: got me and what you're not here yet, you just

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Speaker 1: pipe down. But for the foreseeable future, Doctor Sam, they're

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Speaker 1: stuck with me. Hi, doctor Sam, Welcome to the You Project.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Craig, thanks for having me here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well we I did not know about you until recently,

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Speaker 1: but you're a bit of a rock star. And I

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Speaker 1: tried to have a little I've got quite a few

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Speaker 1: followers across my platforms and like a hundred thousand or something,

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Speaker 1: and so trying to try to know everyone who follows

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Speaker 1: me is an impossibility. But I probably don't look much

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, but a period I look at just who's

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Speaker 1: commenting or liking to see to get an idea of

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Speaker 1: who's interested in my stuff. And I was just scrolling

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Speaker 1: down the other day and I saw doctor Sam Casey PhD,

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Speaker 1: and I went well, first I didn't know if that

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Speaker 1: was a boy or a girl, and it's you. It's well,

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Speaker 1: not a girl or a boy's woman. It's a grown,

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Speaker 1: grown ass woman. And I looked at your Instagram page.

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Speaker 1: Tell people your Insta page. We normally plug at the end,

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Speaker 1: not the start. But what's your Insta page?

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Speaker 2: You simple? Yep?

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Speaker 1: Now, tell people what kind of doctor you are, and like,

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Speaker 1: give them what kind of doctor you are. You're a PhD.

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Speaker 1: But what's it in and and what do you do?

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Speaker 1: Like you and I meet in an elevator, We got

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Speaker 1: forty seconds do we hit the ground floor? I go,

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Speaker 1: what do you do? What do you tell me?

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that's a hard one. Well, can let me

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Speaker 3: explain the doctor bit? Sorry, Yes, I have a pitch.

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Speaker 3: So it's a research degree, so not a medical adopt

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Speaker 3: my field of education with psychology, specifically around play therapy,

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Speaker 3: so that is by PhD.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, what do I do?

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Speaker 3: So I'm I'm a child therapist, reach to play therapist.

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Speaker 3: And I really wanted to make play therapy more accessible,

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Speaker 3: So really take it out of the playroom, take it

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Speaker 3: out of the therapy room, and get it into the

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Speaker 3: hands of the professionals. And the parents who are actually

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Speaker 3: around kids all day every day.

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Speaker 2: So that's what I do. I teach.

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Speaker 3: I guess how you prescribe play for you know, common

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Speaker 3: childhood and parenting issues and making it really I guess

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Speaker 3: more of the lens in which I look at that,

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Speaker 3: and so going through all the different parts that I

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Speaker 3: would be thinking as a child therapist and what's important,

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Speaker 3: and then giving those tools to professionals so that they

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Speaker 3: can use it as like a decision making tool on

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Speaker 3: how to use play best for the child in front

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Speaker 3: of them.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. And so when you say play therapy, what

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Speaker 1: to I don't know is treat the right word, but

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Speaker 1: to treat what? Or to assist with what? Or to Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So how is it a therapy? What does it treat? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Good question.

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Speaker 3: So play therapy is actually an evidence based treatment and

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Speaker 3: it's a preventative model as well around emotional and behavioral

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Speaker 3: issues in children. So you know, even things like mental health,

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Speaker 3: you know, so anxiety, depression, but also things like school refusal,

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Speaker 3: blended families, stress, anger, like all of those kind of

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Speaker 3: issues that you see arise in childhood. And I think

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Speaker 3: the greatest thing about play therapy is that you can

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Speaker 3: start from like age three, because play is so accessible

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Speaker 3: for kids. It's their language, it's how they process the world,

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Speaker 3: and that's how they use, I guess, a tool to

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Speaker 3: be able to figure out what makes sense in their

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Speaker 3: world and what's going on for them. So they won't

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Speaker 3: use language and talking like we do. We can talk

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Speaker 3: things out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, play it out, yeah, kids, play it out.

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Speaker 1: All right. I'm trying to get my head around this.

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Speaker 1: This is new for me, So thank you. This is

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Speaker 1: actually will you'd be pleased to know in seventeen hundred

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Speaker 1: and something episodes, we've never had this conversation. So well

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Speaker 1: done you, Matt. Yeah, no, it's good. This is interesting.

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Speaker 1: So can you give us and us as me and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of others listening, can you give us, me

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Speaker 1: and the gang an example of a problem or a

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Speaker 1: challenge or an issue and then a prescription to treat that,

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Speaker 1: like just an example.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, perfect.

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Speaker 3: So if you had a child and you're seeing a

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Speaker 3: challenging behavior. So for example, I had this little boy

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Speaker 3: and he was heading animals, so in really being really

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Speaker 3: aggressive towards animals, and so the professionals around him. So

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Speaker 3: as teacher, you know, his speech therapist is really concerned. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: his auntie who was his carel was really concerned. And

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Speaker 3: so because I don't the root of that just yet, right,

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Speaker 3: I took a non directive approach to what that means

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Speaker 3: is like a child, let approach, let them kind of lead.

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Speaker 3: And it was really interesting because a child straight away

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Speaker 3: went to being a vet and caring for animals. And

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Speaker 3: so that was session one, right, this child was being

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Speaker 3: the one caring for the animals. And so as the

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Speaker 3: sessions played out, what actually came up was that it

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Speaker 3: was really stemming from jealousy. So that was his way

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Speaker 3: in order to be able to connect with his care

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Speaker 3: and he didn't know how to ask for those needs

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Speaker 3: being met in terms of getting the connection, but he

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Speaker 3: knew that if he was to hurt the animal, the

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Speaker 3: care really cared about the animal. And so when we

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Speaker 3: started to do work with the care around that, those

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Speaker 3: issues went. So imagine if I went at it from

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Speaker 3: a this is how you treat animals and we need

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Speaker 3: to be kind and we need to be this, I'd

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Speaker 3: be assuming something that the child actually already knew.

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Speaker 2: And so it was really about.

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Speaker 3: Creating a therapytic space so that the child could actually

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Speaker 3: process that himself, and then obviously all the other issues

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Speaker 3: came out, and so we were able to, I guess,

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Speaker 3: work with the people around him to directly do that.

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Speaker 3: The on the other flip side, right, you could have

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Speaker 3: a child with anxiety, and so I had this child

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Speaker 3: with anxiety, and post Halloween, he was really struggling. He

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Speaker 3: did not leave his mom's site because he saw these

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Speaker 3: obviously characters come out, you know, knocking on a stel

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Speaker 3: trick of treaders, and he believed that was real. And

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Speaker 3: even though the mum was trying to show him, hey, like,

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Speaker 3: you know this person behind the mask because it was a.

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Speaker 2: Neighbor, he was too scared.

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Speaker 3: And so in the PlayStation I took more of a

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Speaker 3: directive approach because this was an issue that had come

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Speaker 3: up and it was really, you know, like he had

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Speaker 3: generalized anxiety, but that had really obviously peaked to the

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Speaker 3: point where he couldn't be learning in the house. And

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Speaker 3: so what we did is we played a game, and

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Speaker 3: so I re enacted a Halloween seed. But then I

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Speaker 3: was putting on the mask and taking off the mask,

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Speaker 3: and I was talking about how scary it is and

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Speaker 3: how it looked so real to me, and so I

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Speaker 3: really kind of reflected right how he was feeling. But

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Speaker 3: then I worked him through that next step and so

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Speaker 3: that child went home from that session and he was

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Speaker 3: okay again. So it kind of shows through the power

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Speaker 3: right child landed?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So right, so you're you are, So somebody's

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Speaker 1: shows up with a problem or a challenge or an

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Speaker 1: issue that needs to be treated, but then you design

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Speaker 1: play or you design some kind of game. Not the

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Speaker 1: right words, but you know what I mean around so

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Speaker 1: it's not like, oh, here's the box of games over here.

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Speaker 1: You know there's or here's one hundred different play options.

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Speaker 1: Pick one of them. So is it your are there

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Speaker 1: certain things that you would use consistently or is every

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Speaker 1: need in every kid in every situation kind of case by.

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Speaker 2: Case good question.

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Speaker 3: So usually in the playroom, especially that first example that

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Speaker 3: I gave, where we are just trying to explore, right

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Speaker 3: and letting them lead, we'd have a range of toys

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Speaker 3: that actually have a therapeutic I guess goal points. So

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Speaker 3: we'll have aggressive toys, we'll have nurturing toys, we'll have

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Speaker 3: real life toys. We'll have a lot of open ended toys,

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Speaker 3: so things like you know, art, materials, or they use

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Speaker 3: it for a number of different things, you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of construction type toys. But to be honest, the main

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Speaker 3: toy in the tool in the toy box is me.

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Speaker 3: It's it's the person. It's the adult there to facilitate that.

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Speaker 3: I could do this in the sand with sticks, right like,

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Speaker 3: or I could have the best of toys and still

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Speaker 3: not be able to do it if you just don't

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Speaker 3: have the skill and the intention behind what you're doing.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I very much believe that we as you know,

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Speaker 3: the adult is the best tool in the tool box.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is true. That well, that makes sense. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there's so many things I want to ask you, so

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Speaker 1: many things. Oh my god, I said to you forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes. I reckon this might go longer. I'm writing myself.

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Speaker 1: This is not very professional everyone, but I'm writing notes

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Speaker 1: as we go because.

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Speaker 2: Oh I love it.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to forget the shit in my head

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Speaker 1: to ask Sam. Okay, so I'm going to jump around

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But what was your PhD project? Like?

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Speaker 1: What did you research for your PhD?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So it actually evolved as I went.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so this is really interesting, and this is what

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Speaker 3: I love about doing a PhD like that and having

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Speaker 3: supervisors that support that because I'm so curious and what

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Speaker 3: would you come with obviously shouldn't be what you end with,

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Speaker 3: and being able to call out things in the industry.

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Speaker 3: You know, you could obviously go two ways with that.

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Speaker 3: So when I started, I obviously am multicultural, and so

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Speaker 3: I came out from a I'm noticing that a lot

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Speaker 3: of multicultural families don't get therapy for their children, and

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Speaker 3: I want to know what their barriers are. I want

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Speaker 3: to know why there is this potential resistance for it.

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Speaker 3: So I started off with interviewing a bunch of parents

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Speaker 3: and I'm saying, where is this resistance? How do you

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Speaker 3: feel about therapy? How do you feel about play? What

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Speaker 3: would get you to go? What would not get you

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Speaker 3: to go? And so they were like, I actually have

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Speaker 3: no issue with my child going to therapy. That's fine,

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Speaker 3: But I'm just really worried that when I talk to

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Speaker 3: the therapist, they're going to judge me. They're gonna, you know,

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Speaker 3: have a different view worldview, They're going to be just

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Speaker 3: like discriminating against me. They're going to have these negative

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Speaker 3: views about my culture. And I'm like Okay, interesting, so

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Speaker 3: let me talk to the therapists. So then I interviewed a

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Speaker 3: bunch of therapists and I'm like, so, what would be

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Speaker 3: your barriers around working with families and children? And they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: the child in the player room, no issue at all.

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Speaker 3: But I really struggle with the families, you know, because

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Speaker 3: they do have these really strong views. And then as

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Speaker 3: the therapists were talking, they had all these negative bias

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Speaker 3: and I was.

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Speaker 2: Like, wow, that's really interesting.

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Speaker 3: So what the parents are worried about is actually a reality,

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Speaker 3: Like that's actually what happens. They had this bias and

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Speaker 3: they didn't realize that they had it, and they all

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Speaker 3: had very different ways of looking at it. So they

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Speaker 3: were like, in order to be respectful, I need to

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Speaker 3: talk about culture, like I need to bring that up

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Speaker 3: straight away, and other ones would be like, in order

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Speaker 3: to be respectful, I need to leave culture out of it, Like,

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Speaker 3: let's not even go there. So they all had really

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Speaker 3: different views of what respect looks like. But no one

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Speaker 3: was checking in with the parents, right, So the children

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Speaker 3: wasn't the issue here, it was the parents. And so

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Speaker 3: I could have gone two ways with that, right, I

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Speaker 3: could have directed it back to what I was looking for,

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Speaker 3: or I could say, wow, like there's just not enough

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Speaker 3: in trainings. It's all a tick box, right, which is

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Speaker 3: learn about how to work with this culture. Now you've

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Speaker 3: attended the training tick versus what are your beliefs, what

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Speaker 3: everyone's got biased? What do you think about this, what

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Speaker 3: triggers you like, let's get deeper into this. So then

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Speaker 3: I created a train from both of those two research projects,

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Speaker 3: so I actually published. I was publishing as I went.

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Speaker 3: So I published both and then I created a training

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Speaker 3: and I talked about this and I said, often what

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Speaker 3: therapistic they need is knowledge, and what we need is

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Speaker 3: more understanding of ourselves. And we need to have that

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Speaker 3: self reflection, look at where our blind spots are and

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Speaker 3: be willing to work on those. And so I created

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Speaker 3: this training, and a lot of therapists you know, gave

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Speaker 3: me feedback around that. They were like, wow, I did

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Speaker 3: think that I needed more knowledge, But in actual fact,

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Speaker 3: I need to think about my views. What do I

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Speaker 3: define as respect? Why do I believe that, what are

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Speaker 3: my experiences of being a minority? If I am like

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Speaker 3: unpacking it all? And so that's what I came away with,

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Speaker 3: and I guess That was really the foundation of my playprescription,

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Speaker 3: which is we have to be doing it in a

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Speaker 3: work ourselves, Like if we're going to be working with

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Speaker 3: kids and families, we need to check in with ourselves

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Speaker 3: constantly about what's that bringing up because a lot of

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Speaker 3: the time play brings up stuff for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, my listeners are listening to this, I can

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Speaker 1: tell you twenty eight percent fifty percent agoing. Fuck, she

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Speaker 1: talks fast. Has anyone ever told you talk fast all

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Speaker 1: the time?

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Speaker 3: And I really hope that they can slow it down

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Speaker 3: on the you know, the podcast thing, because I do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Sam, wow, you you are. You remind me

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Speaker 1: of a guy called what's his name American? I think

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Speaker 1: it's Ben Shapiro. He talks fast. You remind me of him,

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Speaker 1: but so not excited at all. That's interesting. So what

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Speaker 1: were so you said that some of the therapists had

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Speaker 1: unconsciously had biases? What were they.

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Speaker 3: They had the negative views about the family, So, you know,

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Speaker 3: for example, it could be like something as simple as oh, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, in their culture, you know, usually the men

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Speaker 3: make the decisions. So I was just going to talk

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Speaker 3: to the dad and just let the mom kind of

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Speaker 3: you know, just be there because she would be making

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Speaker 3: decisions anyway. Like in their eyes, they thought they were

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Speaker 3: being respectful to the dad and the beliefs of what

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Speaker 3: they perceived to be the family, rather than checking in right.

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Speaker 3: So it was just again intentionally that there weren't trying

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Speaker 3: to be malicious or anything, but it was just coming

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Speaker 3: out in the way that they saw things based on

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Speaker 3: obviously their own experiences.

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Speaker 1: Right now, this is a little outside the professional kind

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Speaker 1: of specialized focus, but as someone who works with kids

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Speaker 1: all the time and tries to understand the mind of

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Speaker 1: kids and also in conjunction with the adults in their world,

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Speaker 1: it's just something I'm curious about. Tell me about Halloween.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck do you think of Halloween? Like, what

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Speaker 1: are you doctor, Sam? Do we need kids going to

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Speaker 1: strangers houses asking for lollies in twenty twenty four? Is

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Speaker 1: this what we need? Don't like in any other context? Imagine, Well,

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Speaker 1: I keep my gates shut, so I'm not firstly, I

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Speaker 1: don't know them. Well I'm not fucking handing out lollies

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Speaker 1: to children, And to me, that's just the whole you know,

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Speaker 1: that's me though, That's I'm not saying I'm right, I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily think I'm right, but just to me, the

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Speaker 1: eye idea of giving children a whole fucking handful of

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Speaker 1: sugar and then sending them on their way, and with

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Speaker 1: all the shit that's going on with diabetes going through

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Speaker 1: the roof and obesity going through the roof, I know

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Speaker 1: we're not allowed to say it, but it's fucking true, right,

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Speaker 1: So I get offended or whatever, So it is so

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Speaker 1: just true, right, This is not an opinion. Like we've

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Speaker 1: never been We've never been a more obese nation, We've

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Speaker 1: never had more diabetes, we've never had worse fucking diets,

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Speaker 1: and now we're sending kids out to strangers to get

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Speaker 1: lollies and fucking sugar, and no one's saying I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this is a good idea, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: a grumpy old man with them.

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty big a nutrition and stuff too, especially for kids.

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Speaker 3: And I think a lot of the time when you

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Speaker 3: see a lot of diagnosis is really young, right ADHD

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Speaker 3: things like that, no one's looking at the sugar intake

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Speaker 3: at all. And so I think Halloween, Yes, that's kind

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Speaker 3: of goes against everything that we're saying, but I think

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Speaker 3: the bigges she really is in the schools because you know,

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Speaker 3: at least in Australia we're still using lollipops and icy poles,

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Speaker 3: is treats for kids, Like it's still the rewards that

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Speaker 3: are given, and then it's rewards for good behavior. So

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Speaker 3: it's like, okay, so for a child to get rewarded,

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Speaker 3: you're giving in something that's going to spike their blood

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Speaker 3: sugar right up, Like it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think it's no secrets that there's a

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Speaker 1: correlation between obviously diet mental health and IDHD and kids'

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Speaker 1: ability to focus and putting fucking sugar in their bodies.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, anyway, you're not here for that,

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Speaker 1: but doesn't matter. We can talk about whatever we want.

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Speaker 3: It is all related though, it is all related, even

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Speaker 3: for parents. I say that too when they're just like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm just losing my shit in the afternoons, like teaching

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Speaker 3: me how to be patient, and I'm like, well, have

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Speaker 3: you eaten?

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Speaker 2: Like are you having protein you.

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Speaker 3: Know around that time, because of course you're not gonna

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Speaker 3: feel great if you've like starved yourself all day or

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Speaker 3: just ate you know, the leftovers of kids snacks, Like

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Speaker 3: that's not yeah, it's not good for.

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Speaker 1: You, So tell me how. I'm just cured if anyone

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Speaker 1: else's pious with this, but fuck it. How does your

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Speaker 1: job work? Inverted commas? In inverted commas to people? Do

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Speaker 1: you go to people's houses, do you have a facility,

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Speaker 1: do they come to you? Do you go to organizations?

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Speaker 1: How does it work your job?

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Speaker 2: That's a good.

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Speaker 3: Question, and it's evolved over the years. So I was

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Speaker 3: a mobile play therapist for a while. I was going

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Speaker 3: into schools and you know, doing it that way, and

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Speaker 3: then I had an office and really right now, I

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Speaker 3: do it online. And that's the reason why I do that,

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Speaker 3: and it's very intentional is because a lot of the time,

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Speaker 3: as the child therapist, people will be like, here is

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Speaker 3: my child, fix this problem? And a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: people are still operating in that way. But I know

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Speaker 3: from the research it is way more effective to teach

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Speaker 3: the professionals around them, to teach the parents, to teach

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Speaker 3: the you know, the teacher, whoever else. To support a

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Speaker 3: child's mental health, it does not have to be me.

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Speaker 3: So I have purposely moved online to be able to

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Speaker 3: access that and going Actually, I want to work with

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Speaker 3: everyone around the child they have a lot more power

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Speaker 3: and influence over the environment. So it's important that they

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Speaker 3: feel a quick because it's not going to be a

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Speaker 3: ten session quick fix. You know, this is for life.

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Speaker 3: Kids have mental health for life. So yeah, for me,

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Speaker 3: it's online. I meet with him online and do it

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Speaker 3: that way.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, by the way, did you know Ryan Holiday

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Speaker 1: follows you? No?

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Speaker 2: I did not know that. Really?

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Speaker 1: Did you not know that? I did not know that?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I lot all his books.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like Ryan Holiday. Now if you

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Speaker 1: don't know, he's probably I mean, he's probably the biggest

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Speaker 1: author on Stoicism in the last decade or so in

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Speaker 1: the world. He's always banging on, and he's a very

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Speaker 1: good writer, and he's a very good researcher. And obviously

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Speaker 1: he's no Socrates or Marcus Aurelius or Epictetis or but

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Speaker 1: he talks about it all.

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Speaker 2: And he's he makes it make sense though.

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Speaker 3: Like I was actually recently in Greece and I was

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Speaker 3: getting all up into the Greek philosophers, and just his

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Speaker 3: books always come back at me.

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Speaker 1: Well, he follows you, doctor Sam. And I'm a little

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Speaker 1: bit jealous because got a little bit of a crush

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Speaker 1: on him. So you were talking about the assumptions that

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Speaker 1: people make based on you know, uh, parents and families,

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Speaker 1: culture and stuff. What what's your background if you don't

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Speaker 1: mind me asking, Yeah, no.

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Speaker 2: Not at all.

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Speaker 3: I'm so I'm Anglo Indian, so it's like Indian mixed

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Speaker 3: with Irish and English. I was born in Australia though,

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Speaker 3: and my parents came here when there were six, both

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Speaker 3: of them. So yeah, I feel like i'm culturalise and

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Speaker 3: part Australian.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're an ass You're an aussy dude. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: And it says on your I just wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you this because I found the interesting. It says on

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Speaker 1: your IG profile recovering good girl. What what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: What is recovery? What's a recovering good girl? Did you

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Speaker 1: used to be a good girl and now and now

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Speaker 1: you've bed.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much with the cause?

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Speaker 1: What so you're now you're a good girl? And you

399
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Speaker 1: were a trade? No? No? No? Were you a straighty one

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Speaker 1: eighty you like the perfect No?

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Speaker 2: Well I was and then I wasn't so well kind

402
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Speaker 2: of so growing up I was like.

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Speaker 3: Probably like the good little Indian child, Like I was

404
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Speaker 3: really quiet, yes, thank you please, so polite, did all

405
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Speaker 3: the right things. Was just you know, and this is

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Speaker 3: probably the outer though, because you know, my parents talk

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Speaker 3: about how I was like a bit of a rebel

408
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Speaker 3: at home, but you know, that's kind of how I

409
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Speaker 3: grew up going I want to do you know, I

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Speaker 3: want to be good and do things the right way,

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Speaker 3: and I was always worried about being nice and you know.

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Speaker 2: Again pleasing others.

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Speaker 3: Obviously lost a bit of that when I was a

414
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Speaker 3: teenager and I left school like halfway through year ten

415
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Speaker 3: because that's what I wanted to do. So there was

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Speaker 3: definitely a steering away from that. But then I continued

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Speaker 3: that in my adult life.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was my marriage.

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Speaker 3: I married a Muslim, and you know, he had a

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Speaker 3: lot of obviously strict rules around certain things, and I

421
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Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I'm going to be like this perfect

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Speaker 3: wife and I'm gonna be this perfect mom. And then

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Speaker 3: I became a mom and I was like, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to be a perfect mom. That's not authentic. That's

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Speaker 3: not what I want to teach my daughter, and that's

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Speaker 3: not like the message I want to be sending. And

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Speaker 3: so then I had to go through this like I'm

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Speaker 3: I guess this whole inner work stuff of who am

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Speaker 3: I and what do I want and how I can

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Speaker 3: be more authentic.

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Speaker 2: In my own power And to be honest, it was

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Speaker 2: actually my daughter.

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Speaker 3: So she's seven now and my first one is nine,

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Speaker 3: But it was a birth of my daughter that really

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Speaker 3: shook things up for me because she reminded me of

436
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 3: me when I was little, Like she had this power

437
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 3: and like this little fire sorry in her and she

438
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 3: knew what she wanted and she like just wanted wants

439
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 3: to go after it. And I was like, I can't

440
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 3: actually support that and foster that. I'm if I've shut

441
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 3: that down within myself, like I have to. I have

442
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 3: to get that part of me back that determines them

443
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 3: that you know, persevering through things. But in ways that

444
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 3: made sense to me, right, that honored you know, who

445
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 3: I was, And so yeah, that was a whole journey

446
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 3: in itself.

447
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: Wow, that is super interesting, like trying trying to figure

448
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: out the self in the middle of our own life.

449
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: Like my PhD is in self awareness but love it. Well, Yeah,

450
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm always talking to people about you know, it's funny

451
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 1: when you ask somebody to tell to tell them for

452
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: them to tell you about them. So I'll go, you know,

453
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just sit down with someone and go, all right,

454
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: tell me about you, and then they tell me where

455
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: their house is and where they went to school, and

456
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: you know what star sign they are or what car

457
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: they drive, or I'm like, well, none of those are you.

458
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: They're interest that's interesting, But tell me about you though,

459
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 1: not your car, not your job, not how many fucking

460
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 1: followers you've got. Don't tell me about your height or weight,

461
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: or you don't even tell me about your body, because

462
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: that's not you either, Like tell me about you, like,

463
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: not your brand, your business.

464
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 2: My point because I think a lot of people even

465
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: use relationships.

466
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: They're like I'm a you know, I'm this person's partner,

467
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 3: I'm a wife, or I'm a mother or like they

468
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 3: just have these labels. But it's like, well, that's a

469
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 3: relationship that's not necessarily you.

470
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 1: And I can hear my listeners going no, that is

471
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: a big part of who I am, And of course

472
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: I agree. But it's like, I think the kind of

473
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: philosophical question and is trying to figure out in the

474
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: middle of all of the busyness, mayhem and roles, and

475
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: you know that whatever. Oh, I'm an academic, or I'm

476
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: a bricklayer, I'm a fucking astronaut, or I'm a pisces,

477
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: or I'm a vegan, or I'm a crossfitter, or I'm

478
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: a whatever. You know, it's like trying to figure out

479
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 1: the self in the middle of all. So can I

480
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: feel free to tell me to buck off with any

481
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: of these inappropriate questions? Doctor Sam? So did you become

482
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: a Muslim when you married a Muslim man? Was that

483
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 1: that's part of the deal.

484
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 3: Right and not something I identify with now? But yeah,

485
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 3: at the time I did.

486
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: Right, right? Okay? And so how is I don't want

487
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: to talk about that in depth for obvious reasons, but

488
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: now being a So the kids live with you all

489
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: the time full time or no?

490
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: We share fifty to fifty customers, okay?

491
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: And so do you get to take any of your

492
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: therapy and theories and ideas around play for a test

493
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: drive with the kids? So they are they your crash

494
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: test dummies?

495
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 3: Of course, like, not in the way you'd think, like

496
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the time people, you know,

497
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: you'd probably be thinking, I'm doing some sort of like

498
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: structured activity and I'm trying to teach them this. No,

499
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 3: it's like dance parties like every night, right, Like that's

500
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: my thing. I love having dance funnies with my kids.

501
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 3: But yes, definitely, play is is a language. That's one

502
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 3: thing I focus on and in such a I guess

503
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 3: it's really potent. I think it's just so powerful, you know,

504
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 3: when they're going through something or if there's any stress

505
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: or whatever we're doing, it's just the perfect way to reconnect.

506
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, love it.

507
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 3: I'm very playful with them, but also even just for

508
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 3: myself too, like it's just a way of life.

509
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

510
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: There's a very famous quote by I think it's by

511
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: George Bernard Shaw and you would have heard it, and

512
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 1: most of our listeners would have heard it, and it's

513
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: we don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow

514
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: old because we stop playing, right. And one of the

515
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: one I mean this is like one of my favorite

516
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: things is laughing at stupid shit. Is hanging out where

517
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: I generally it's my male friends, sometimes you know, females,

518
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: but male friends, talking shit about not much, riding my motorbikes,

519
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: not thinking, not having a serious conversation, not working on business,

520
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: not working on my study, not just just hanging out

521
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: and laughing at stupid shit, which I know ladies don't

522
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: love that as much.

523
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: I know I actually do it.

524
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 3: It's funny because my kids they like the number one thing,

525
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: you know, when we're hanging out in the evenings or

526
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 3: ask like tell me more embarrassing stories about what you

527
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 3: did when you're little, they just love it. Or even

528
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 3: now right, they just love hearing embarrassing shit that I do.

529
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: So I gotta always like keep tab of that.

530
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: But I wonder why as we I wonder why we

531
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: stop prioritize, prioritizing having fun, Like I know, it's I

532
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: even ask grown ups, you know, I go, so, you know,

533
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: and we go through everything we talked about last time.

534
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 1: We talk about you know, we talk about excise, and

535
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: we talk about purpose and focus and relationships and career

536
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: and lifestyle, and we talk about all the big ticket items,

537
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, all the jigsaw puzzle pieces that make up

538
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: the fucking puzzle that is you. Right. But I often

539
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: say to people do you like having fun? And they

540
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: look at me like, well, that's the dumbest fucking question ever.

541
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: Of course, I go, what's your fun plan? They're like what,

542
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: I go, what's your fund? Like what are the.

543
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: Things that fun plan I want to use that now.

544
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: Well one hundred percent, Like I think grown ups do

545
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: not have fun. I intentionally, I intentionally do things that

546
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: there is no purpose other than laughter or fun. That

547
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: is that. Yeah, And I just like there's a component

548
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: of me and people who know me well, like I'm

549
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: a sixty year old, fucking twelve year old, Like do

550
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And it's yeah, Like if

551
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: you're ticking all these boxes and hustling and grinding and

552
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: fucking whatever, but your life is devoid of fun or

553
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: laughter or joy, I reckon, you got it wrong?

554
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, like are you even living right? But I think

555
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: a lot of the time it's the stress. It's not

556
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: just the stress, but it's also you know, our minds

557
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: are put up either in the past of the future,

558
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: so it's worrying about future stuff that may or may

559
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 3: not happen, or worrying about past mistakes or past shit

560
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: that we can't really change.

561
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: In it, we're not really present.

562
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of the time people think

563
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: of presence as like meditation or yoga. No, it's played

564
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 3: like if you're in the moment and you're having fun

565
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 3: and you're laughing, like you're present, like you're yeah, just

566
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: loving life.

567
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: Maybe with adults that like it's not so much typically

568
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: a childlike play, but Martin, perhaps more creativity where we're

569
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: creating something like I'm People would think I'm much more

570
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: science here because of my work and my degrees and stuff,

571
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: but I'm actually more of a creative Like I love

572
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: conceptualizing something, coming up with an idea and turning that

573
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: thing in my head into a thing in the world

574
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: that intersects in a three dimensional way with humans. You know,

575
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: it's like and whether or not that's whatever. You know.

576
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: It's like, I opened the first personal training business in

577
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: Australia and at least fifty adults told me not to

578
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: do it, people who knew more than me in inverted commas.

579
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: Right, they said, the first one in Australia. That's incredible.

580
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that was in nine ninety. That

581
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: was thirty four years ago, when you weren't even born.

582
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: That's annoying.

583
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: I was actually born in nineteen nineties, Oh were you?

584
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: So that's yeah, so what the year you were born?

585
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying aren't I great because it would

586
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: have happened anyway. But I had, you know, I was

587
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: training people that were virtually like I started training pting

588
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six, which is, you know, obviously nearly

589
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: forty years ago, and there was pretty much no one,

590
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: if anyone, doing that Australia. There was no qualification, there

591
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: was no course, there was no registration, there was no insurance,

592
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: there was no industry, there was no personal training industry.

593
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: Right, wow, you and the dumbbells.

594
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, just me and the dumbbells. And I basically, you know,

595
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: had this idea and I'm sure somebody else would have

596
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: had the idea, but to conceptualize that and to start

597
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: doing appointment only training with people and you know, figuring

598
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: out the shit and then you eventually and yes, of

599
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: course it would have happened despite me, but it so happens.

600
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: I got in on the ground floor. And then to

601
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: watch this idea that I had four decades ago become

602
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: this flourishing thing that it is, it's like, you know,

603
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: and then whatever it is, you know, it's like you

604
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: I just launched a new workshop tonight which is called

605
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: as We Record. It's the third of December. It's a

606
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: Tuesday night called pre Season twenty twenty five, right, And

607
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: so even with that, I go, all right, I'm going

608
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: to do a workshop about helping people get their shit

609
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: together so that their New Year's resolutions actually turn into

610
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: something tangible, not just to fucking another year roles by,

611
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: where they have these conversations and set these goals and

612
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: have these wishes.

613
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: That never nothing changes, you know.

614
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: Of course, to bring that, you know, back to the

615
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: pt stuff, I think weight training is the perfect thing

616
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: for that. I absolutely love weight training. I think it's

617
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: been such a game changer for mental health, for everything.

618
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: But it's also a way to show up for yourself.

619
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 3: And you're having to like sit with the weights, right,

620
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: and you know, some exercises I'm like, oh, I can

621
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: go heavier. Others I'm like, oh, I think it's too much.

622
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: And you're having to find that perfect balance of growing

623
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: your muscles. So you have to push yourself obviously not

624
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: to the point of injury, but then obviously not to

625
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 3: the point if you're not feeling anything. And it's just

626
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: that constant again presence with yourself. And I find this

627
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 3: year in different exercises, different days. Feel stronger one day,

628
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: feel a bit weaker the next. But you know, when

629
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: you're tracking that. It's really exciting.

630
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: I think weight training is amazing for that.

631
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also I mean also you can So when

632
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: I train every night, I'm with one of my best

633
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: mates and another mate and sometimes there's a third one.

634
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: So I trained tonight with John and Mark, two of

635
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: my mates, and that for me, that's play.

636
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: Because we are playing my playground.

637
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: Well, it's like a big fucking grown ups playground.

638
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: It is heavyweights in itself is like a prescription, right.

639
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: It's amazing so much.

640
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: So I can't really say it too much anymore because

641
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: people roll their eyes and go, well, of course you

642
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: fucking say that.

643
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: Can I say them? I'll say it. Yeah.

644
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: I've noticed quite quite a few grown ups, more women

645
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: than men, I think. But that's just what I've seen.

646
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: So it could be wrong getting into grown ups getting

647
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: into coloring coloring books? Have you seen that?

648
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: I have mindful coloring books. That's a thing.

649
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, what what is that? Is that? Just? Is that

650
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: like a is that a meta? Is that a throwback

651
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: to childhood where it creates neuro associations with good taptivity.

652
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: It's one of the things to help people be more mindful,

653
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: to be more present, you know when you're coloring in

654
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: and there's obviously this light design. You're actually you're sitting

655
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 3: there and you're coloring, and it kind of brings you

656
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: back to the now. So it's just another tool. But

657
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: I can you got to find your thing. Like for me,

658
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: that's not a thing. I don't enjoy that. I mean,

659
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: I'm sitting down a lot of the day. So for me,

660
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: it's with the weight training. I need to be able

661
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: to move. That's been me be mindful. But for some

662
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: other people, yeah, it's the coloring in books.

663
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: They love it.

664
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: So I think it's about testing different things, experimenting and finding,

665
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: you know, what works for you.

666
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: I'm interested to hear about the girl who dropped out

667
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: in year ten who is now a fucking PhD. Like, what, right,

668
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: that's a bit of it. Well, I don't know, you

669
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: might be the first one I've met. I don't know

670
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: too many people that finish school in year ten. And

671
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: even so, let's say year ten, you were what fifteen

672
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: or something? Yeah, I mean two thousand and five ish.

673
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: There weren't too many people finishing school at year ten, right.

674
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: No, but I definitely was the first out of there.

675
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that. Journey from wanting

676
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: to get out of school to getting Obviously, you went

677
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,719
Speaker 1: back and did did you do year twelve? Or you

678
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: just started an undergrad as a mature aid student or

679
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: what did you do?

680
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: So I'll go with the getting out first, right. So

681
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 3: I was failing school, like I couldn't focus. I was

682
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 3: just there to socialize. I wasn't retaining stuff, I wasn't interested,

683
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: Like nothing made sense to me.

684
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: And so I was like, well can I do like

685
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: leaving year ten? I can be a hairdresser. I love

686
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: doing my hair. That makes sense. So that was my plan?

687
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: Why not?

688
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: Right? Quite the master plan, doctor Sam.

689
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: I was pretty impressed with myself. I was like, this

690
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: is it? Of course, you know, life at other plans.

691
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: And I found myself working at a shildcay center because

692
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: apparently that's one of the places you can get a

693
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: job without any tape studies.

694
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: Because even wouldn't take me.

695
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: So I actually take, for those who don't know, is

696
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: like a higher education, not quite university, but that little

697
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: bit lower. And because I didn't finish there ten, I

698
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: couldn't get in there. So I started working at this

699
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: childcare center and I came across this little boy and

700
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: he had just visited his parents and he was in

701
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: care child protection, right, so he was with foster cares,

702
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: but he had just visited his parents and he came

703
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: back and he was super aggressive, and I had all

704
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 3: of the childcare workers telling me how to handle the behavior,

705
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: and just a part of me was like, I think,

706
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: I just need to be around, not too close, but

707
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: just be there and let him play out what he

708
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: needed to. And I saw how therapeutic that was. It

709
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: was like a release, and I was like, this must

710
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 3: be a thing. So I went home. Obviously there was

711
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: no Google, it was like nine MSM. But I was

712
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: like play therapy. And then I found this huge world

713
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: of play therapy, which was massive in America, not quite

714
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: big in Australia yet. And that's when I was like,

715
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: I'm going back. So I did a trainee ship, so

716
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: I did like a certificate three in children's services while

717
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: I was working at the childcare center. And then I

718
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 3: did a university preparation course and then I did in

719
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: undergrad in psychology children Family Studies and that was just amazing,

720
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: Like I absolutely loved everything about what.

721
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: I was learning.

722
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: I still didn't know though, the next step, and I

723
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: started doing play therapy studies and that's when I discovered

724
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: I could do a Master of Social Work and work

725
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 3: intop protection because I really wanted to experience that but

726
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: then still keep going with my play therapy. So did that,

727
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 3: and then I actually wanted to do more play therapy studies.

728
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: I became a wretched to play therapist. And thankfully it

729
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 3: was the lecture at the university that was like, well,

730
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: you want to do your research, why do another master's

731
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 3: do a PhD?

732
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: And I was like, I can't do a PhD.

733
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: I don't have the grades for that, and she was like, no,

734
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 3: you know, you start off doing research and you know

735
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: you prove yourself, like you show that you can work

736
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 3: at that level. And so yeah, I ended up getting

737
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: into this PhD program. I ended up getting a scholarship

738
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: just by you know, being a credit average student. I

739
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: definitely didn't ace university and anything, but I had this

740
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 3: vision and it was amazing how many doors just kept

741
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: opening when I just was like, I'm going to be

742
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: an expan play therapy, like that is why I'm here,

743
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 3: and so it almost like it sparked this huge internal

744
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: drive within me.

745
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing, that's amazing. Isn't it funny how the

746
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: girl who couldn't focus, the girl that was failing, becomes

747
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: the woman that gets a PhD and can focus. And

748
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: so how old were you when you started your first degree?

749
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 2: So I was nineteen.

750
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: Wow. Well that was a quick That was a pretty

751
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: quick turnaround. Yeah. I mean it went from wow wow.

752
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: And so you figured out at fifteen or sixteen how

753
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: to manage this kid that was for most other people unmanageable.

754
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

755
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 3: And it was this intuit like it was weird because

756
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: it was this intuitive thing of like, I know everything

757
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: I've been taught. This goes back to the good girl

758
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 3: conditioning right of wanting to be a good childcare worker.

759
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 3: I knew everything I was taught. I knew all the

760
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 3: strategies and how to redirect the play and distract and

761
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: all of those things. But another part of me was like,

762
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 3: he's really struggling right now, and I think he needs

763
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 3: me here to take over, but just to really hear

764
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 3: what he's saying. And he's not using words, but he's

765
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: playing out something. And so when I did that, and

766
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 3: I saw the benefit of how much that just released him,

767
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 3: and then he just came back into the fold of

768
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 3: everything I saw. I witnessed that power of play, and

769
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 3: I was like sold. You know, before I even learned

770
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 3: anything about it, I was like, this is the thing

771
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: I need to get out here. I need to show

772
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 3: other people. And I was using it and all other

773
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: you know, when I was working int our protection, I

774
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: started to use it. I used it in all different settings,

775
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 3: and I think it's just so powerful when we know

776
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 3: how to sit back and not take over and let

777
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 3: the child play.

778
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: Is this kind of therapy potentially going to help some

779
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: kids avoid being medicated?

780
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 2: I think so.

781
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 3: I think very much though, because what ends up happening,

782
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: especially if the parent's doing it. We have obviously the

783
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 3: play therapy models where we teach parents this, but when

784
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: parents get to know their child's needs, it's not so

785
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: much a a we need to squash this, but rather

786
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 3: what do they need? And then they go get that

787
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 3: need met. I mean, I was the person studying and

788
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: then taking a break on the trampoline. I'll go or

789
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 3: you know, going for a quick ride and then coming back.

790
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 3: Like I was able to figure that out for myself

791
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 3: doing a PhD, because I did that online. But for

792
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 3: a lot of the kids at school, they don't have

793
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 3: that environment. So I think having caregivers around where they

794
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 3: tap into their energy would definitely say kids from getting

795
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: medicated because they're actually being able to build the other.

796
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 2: Things right in learning how their brain works well.

797
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: And you think about like when you take a drug,

798
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: it's changing your brain chemistry. When you bounce on a trampoline,

799
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: it's changing your brain chemistry. When you lie on the

800
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: floor and cuddle a dog. If you love dogs, it

801
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: changes or even if you hate them, right, but in

802
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: a different way. But it's all about how do I change,

803
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, how do I change what's happening in my body?

804
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: You know, these anxiety responses, or these dopamine or this

805
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: serotinin response or this you know, like cortisole response, or

806
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many ways to manipulate the one

807
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: of the more scientific the inner workings of the body, right,

808
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: you know, hormonally, nervous system, all of those things that

809
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: don't necessarily and by the way, everyone this is not

810
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: a recommendation or a prescription. This is just a conversation.

811
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: But I think you know, like even we've seen in

812
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: grown ups, the comparison between people who use the right

813
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: kind of exercise to treat depression versus an antidepressant, and

814
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: in nearly all of the studies, while all of the

815
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: studies that I've looked at anyway, University of South Australia

816
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: did a big one this time last year, I think

817
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: it was November twenty twenty three, UNISA came out with

818
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: these massive this massive paper around how exercise outperforms or

819
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: in their study it outperformed you know, antidepressants. And again

820
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: we're not telling anyone to get off anything or on anything,

821
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: but it's at the very least it's worth, you know,

822
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: if we can do something to our body, or support

823
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: other people to do something which is fun based or

824
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: play based, or you know, something that's actually going to

825
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: change what's happening in not only their brain and their

826
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: mind but also their entire body, it's worth at least exploring, right.

827
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: Oh definitely.

828
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 3: And I think we we just don't get the power

829
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 3: of things like exercise. And I think even for a

830
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 3: lot of women, I hear this where they're like, oh,

831
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: but I don't like to run, and I'm like, no

832
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: one said you have to run. You know, there's different

833
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 3: kinds of movements, but I think it's comes down to

834
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: us taking responsibility as well, really for our lives and

835
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 3: our habits and going okay, life came feeling depressed, Yes,

836
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: medication could be one piece of that puzzible What.

837
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: Else, how am I spending my time? You know? Am

838
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: I moving my body? Like you said?

839
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 3: What am I filling my body with? And then being

840
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 3: able to continue to tweak those things and get to

841
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: the root causes of that, you know, the emotional eating,

842
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 3: whatever else is going on. So I think for me, anyway,

843
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: I think it comes down to taking that responsibility for

844
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 3: our lives than our habits, and like you said, they

845
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 3: rewire our brain like it's so powerful.

846
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 1: Also, here's another idea, doctors. And you know I don't

847
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: like running, Well, it doesn't matter. You don't have to

848
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: like it, like you're like like not and I'm not.

849
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not trying to be a hard ass,

850
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: but we don't need to like everything. Not everything needs

851
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: to be fun or painless. Right, Sometimes the things that

852
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: are really fucking effective suck for a little bit of

853
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: time that.

854
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's uncomfortable, like no one likes to do it.

855
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: I wasn't like super like Joyce the whole time I

856
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: was with my PhD or even exercising. I still don't

857
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: want to do it sometimes, but you'll never regret doing it.

858
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: And I think when you know that, then you develop

859
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 3: that self discipline right where you're like, yes, I don't

860
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: feel like it, but I'm going to do the thing anyway,

861
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: and that builds self trust, which is really important.

862
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean the other thing is too. You know,

863
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: when you go for your run whatever, you're doing something

864
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: good for your heart and your lungs and your body

865
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: and all of that. But you know what else is

866
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: interesting is you know, it's that whole kind of that

867
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: old chestnut about it's not about getting to the top

868
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 1: of the mountain. That's about who you become on the climb, right,

869
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: who might becoming like when I do these you know,

870
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: and Andrew Human talks about the anterior mid singulate cortex,

871
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: the part of the brain that literally gets a bit

872
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: bigger when we do things that are hard that we

873
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: don't want to do right, And it's that like when

874
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: I lean into the suck, right, when I do the

875
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: shit that I know that I need to do to

876
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: create the outcome I want, but in the moment, I

877
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: don't want to do it. I don't feel like doing it,

878
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: but I do it nonetheless. Apart from ticking the box

879
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: and creating progress, what I'm doing to myself is I'm

880
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: building competence and resilience and strength and cognitive fitness. Right

881
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: I'm actually changing. Just like when you go and lift

882
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: heavy shit, you build muscles. Well, when you go and

883
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: lift heavy shit with your mind, metaphorically, you're building decision

884
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: making muscles, You're building resilience muscles, you're building calm and

885
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: the chaos equanimity muscle. You know. So sometimes we've just

886
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: got to do shit that in the moment we don't want.

887
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 3: To do definitely, And I think often when we're in

888
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: situations like that, we can just blame the external like

889
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: I'm too busy right now, or I've got young kids,

890
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 3: or I've got this work schedule, I have no time.

891
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 3: But if we honestly sat there in a room with

892
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 3: just us and I don't know the book or you

893
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: know us, and the ways we realize it actually just

894
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 3: really hard. We're just blaming external stuff. We take a

895
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 3: lot of that out, it's still hard.

896
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: And this is part of you know, self awareness, Like

897
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 1: real self awareness is painful because you know, like when

898
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: you really do and I said to Melissa, who runs

899
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: my life. We're having that chat the other day, and

900
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: everyone thinks everyone says to me, not everyone, that's bullshit.

901
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: A lot of people have said to me, Sam, Yeah, oh,

902
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: you work so hard, you work so much, you work

903
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: so many hours. You know, you're doing this and that,

904
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: and you know what I kind of do. But also

905
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: I fuck around, like I waste time. Like, yes, I

906
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, I do a podcast every day of

907
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: the year, right, but I mean that's an hour a day, Like,

908
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: it's not exactly ten hours a day. Right. Then I've

909
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: got to write some copy and come up with a title,

910
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit of time. And yes, I'm studying,

911
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: and yeah, I do like quite a lot of corporate

912
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: gigs a year and all of that stuff. But honestly,

913
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: also I waste a lot of time. And I was

914
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: talking to Melissa about this the other day and I said,

915
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: everyone thinks I work harder than I actually work, and

916
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: I don't. I kind of let them think that because

917
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: my ego likes it, right, But it's actually not true,

918
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: Like it depends on you know, what the baseline is

919
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: or what the comparison is. But you know, and I

920
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: just think that this in this whole space of you

921
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about now, which is you know,

922
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: like training our mind or training our body, or and

923
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: then owning up without beating yourself up. No, not self clothing,

924
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: self awareness, but owning up and going, you know what,

925
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm wasting my time or I'm the problem. It's like

926
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: we like everyone else to be the problem, because if

927
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: everyone else.

928
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: Is the problem, we need to change, right, I.

929
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: Don't need to Well, it's Sam's fault, clearly, and if

930
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: it's Sam's fault, then Craig doesn't have to change. So

931
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: that suits Craig, you know.

932
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're so right about that.

933
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 3: And it almost like it keeps us stuck, right, the

934
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: avoidance of that keeps us stuck rather than calling ourselves

935
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 3: out on our shit in a really loving way, but

936
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 3: in a like this is I'm getting in my own

937
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 3: way here, like what am I doing? Like what needs

938
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: to shift? And I think that's really empowering. I mean

939
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable, but it's empowering.

940
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: And how many of us, so I know we've changed

941
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: tact in the conversation doesn't matter, but how many of

942
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: us really waste potential waste time? Waste energy. And then

943
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: I mean you've not you, not you clearly, but you

944
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: know I and I don't mean it in a judging way.

945
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: I meant it in a supportive way. Like I meet

946
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: so many people who are one hundred percent smarter than me,

947
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 1: Like they're smarter than me, they've got more talent, they've

948
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: got I'm like, fuck, I wish I had your genetics.

949
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: I wish I had your creativity. I wish I had

950
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: your brain and your memory. Like I meet so many

951
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: people who have got so much potential, but they're either

952
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: paralyzed by fear or they're trapped in some kind of

953
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, well I don't know oc D or

954
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: or laziness or avoidance or a bit of all of it,

955
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: or and they just kind of hope an opportunity comes along.

956
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, here's an idea, create an opportunity.

957
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, go On doesn't say no, You're so

958
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: right about that. I Like, I say this all the time, Like, I,

959
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 3: you know, do not get the best grades in university,

960
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: And there was so many students that are like fully

961
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: surpassing me in terms of their intellect, and even PhD

962
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 3: students that were working double the amount as I was

963
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: I doing, and yet I was making more progress. Why

964
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: because they were really struggling with failure, any any perceived

965
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: bit of failure.

966
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: They just couldn't take it. It was just too much

967
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: and they didn't know how to.

968
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 3: It's almost like they were on level ten and they

969
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 3: just had to write up their level one and they

970
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: just couldn't do that anymore.

971
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: It was really tough.

972
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 3: So I realized that's actually a benefit, right, when we

973
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 3: can call ourselves that our own ship. But also when

974
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 3: we're used to failure, when we see that as part

975
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: of the process, we then don't fear it. We just

976
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 3: keep up leveling because we're like, cool, I'm on the

977
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 3: right track.

978
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: I read I read in your notes that you work

979
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: in prisons. Is that right? Or you did What does

980
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: a play therapist do in prison?

981
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 3: Well, see, I'm not just a play therapist. I'm a

982
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 3: mentor health social worker. So I do counseling. So I've

983
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: done counseling you know, with moms, wait in private practice.

984
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 2: You know, prison is another environment. Yeah, so not doing

985
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: play that's a.

986
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: Big cross section of the humanity. Yeah, it is.

987
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: But I think when you work with adult it's right

988
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: we're always working within the shift and even with ourselves,

989
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 3: like there's always that you know, kind of core childhood

990
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: wounds that we all have and it still runs our

991
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: life because that's where a lot of our programming was

992
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 3: really set down and that's how we see the world.

993
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 3: And so I think that that lens is really helpful

994
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: too when working with adults.

995
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: What do you think This is just an opinion, but

996
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: what do you think gets in the way most people? Like,

997
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: most people are not where they want to be. It

998
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they hate their life, but most people, if

999
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: you say, who'd like to be make more money, or

1000
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: be leaner, or change your body, be healthier, fitter, or

1001
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, like, most people have got something or some

1002
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: things about their life that they really want to change,

1003
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: but at the same time, they're not doing anything to

1004
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: change it. Right, Yep, what do you think that's about?

1005
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: Oh, there's so much there, But I think it comes

1006
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: down to how they see themselves really.

1007
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: Right, go on, yeah, go on?

1008
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 3: Expand exad Okay, so how they see themselves. They have

1009
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 3: really limiting beliefs and so like let's just say exercise. Okay,

1010
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 3: someone you know wants to get healthier, they're gonna. What

1011
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 3: they do is they got all or nothing. So they're like,

1012
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 3: I need to be that person that's at the gym,

1013
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 3: you know, for an hour a day, and I need

1014
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: to have all the right clothes and I need to

1015
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 3: do it in this way. And the second that they don't,

1016
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: they're like, it's all I can't do this. I always

1017
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: do this, I always fail this, and they just go

1018
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: back to living their life. It's almost like the shame

1019
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 3: kind of takes over.

1020
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: Right.

1021
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 3: So it's either like I'm also more on horrible. There's

1022
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: nothing in between, and so they're not psychologically flexible in

1023
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 3: the sense of going, I need I need to call

1024
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: myself out in this I keep getting in my own way.

1025
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: What are my barriers?

1026
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 3: I need to show up for myself every day. I

1027
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 3: need to believe that I can be that person. And

1028
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 3: so it's closing the gap between who they want to

1029
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 3: be and where they are now. And so imagine this going,

1030
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 3: I'm actually that person that shows up for myself every

1031
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 3: day and I do movement could be ten minutes at home,

1032
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 3: it could be an hour long gym sash, but every

1033
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 3: day I am that person. Then it becomes a part

1034
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: of their identity and so again, when they believe in

1035
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: themselves like that, they they're able to do that, and

1036
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of people aren't.

1037
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I think also okay with fucking up.

1038
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: You know, like so many people that I've worked with

1039
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: over the years, they'll say to me something like fell

1040
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: off the wagon on the weekend. I'm like, what is what?

1041
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: What wagon? What wagon?

1042
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 2: Is it? Fucking up? Though?

1043
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 3: If there is no wagon, Like I'm renowned for going

1044
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 3: out right on and on a Saturday night and having

1045
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 3: the cock downs and having a late night, and then

1046
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 3: I'm at the gym in the morning. I'm like, you know,

1047
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 3: I've recovered from that, and I don't see this fucking up.

1048
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 3: It's probably not the best workout. I mean, I would

1049
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: say like eight out of ten times it's a pretty

1050
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 3: weak performance. But I show up, and for me, it's

1051
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: like success. That's all I want to do. I want

1052
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: to show up for the fun, but I also want

1053
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 3: to show up for the accountability part. And then every

1054
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: now and again, I'm actually stronger, probably from all the

1055
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: extra food or all the extra things. But I think

1056
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 3: it's people perceiving I've just fucked up. I've gone off track.

1057
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,919
Speaker 3: Versus I don't see this getting off track. I see

1058
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: it as you know, part of a very balanced life

1059
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 3: is that when you're present and you can have fun

1060
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 3: and you know how to, you know, be able to

1061
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 3: put all that aside. But then when it's time to

1062
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 3: show up for yourself and be disciplined, you can do that.

1063
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: So I'm that person at work where I've got my

1064
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: little typerway container and I've got my meal prep. But

1065
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 3: I'm also that person that can go to an event

1066
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 3: and just be present and eat whatever's there. Do you

1067
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: see what I mean? And both serve a purpose. People

1068
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 3: aren't good at doing that. They kind of see that

1069
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 3: as contradictory, versus I see it is very I'm a

1070
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: walking contradiction, but I see it's very in a child

1071
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 3: healing where we can do both, we can be both.

1072
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing. It's like if what

1073
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: I was kind of alluding to is people will eat

1074
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: grape for four weeks and then they'll have a tymtam

1075
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: or two timtams and they go, oh, fucked it up now,

1076
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: and then they go on a six day bender because

1077
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: they ate two tymtams. And so it ain't about the timtams.

1078
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: It's about the psychological and emotional reaction to the two

1079
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: tympamps because the two tymtams don't fucking matter.

1080
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: They don't And like the ability to get back on

1081
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 3: track as quickly as possible. And that's what I think

1082
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 3: about on the weekend right, a lot of people wipe

1083
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 3: out their weekend versus if you really take it apart,

1084
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 3: Yes you can have an all night and a great

1085
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: night and you can do all the things, but then

1086
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 3: you get back on track the next you know, day,

1087
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 3: or the next even like if you've had a big lunch,

1088
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 3: you could still then you know, be more conscious for dinner.

1089
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 3: Like I think people write things off too much, and

1090
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 3: that comes down to what I said before, the all

1091
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 3: or nothing mindset, rather than just being a bit more

1092
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: flexible with life.

1093
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: Trying to manage us. That's the ever present reality. I

1094
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: should start a show called the U Project where we

1095
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,959
Speaker 1: talk about how we can manage ourselves. There's a thought, what.

1096
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: A great idea you should get onto that, Like asam.

1097
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: I'm the ideas guy. Hey, your ace, we're going to

1098
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: get you back and talk about more things. We might

1099
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: need to adjust your speed down to point eight zero

1100
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: point eight just so my sixty year olds can keep

1101
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: up with you. But how do people find you, Sam,

1102
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: connect with you and potentially do some work with you.

1103
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: How to just steer our audience where you want to?

1104
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm mostly active on Instagram, so that's doctor

1105
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 3: Sam Casey. They can find me on my website, which

1106
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 3: is doctor Samcasey dot com. Or I'm on Facebook as well,

1107
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 3: but yeah, Instagram is, I would say, my go to.

1108
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 2: So check me.

1109
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: Out on your fun and interesting and clever, and congrats

1110
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: on what you're doing. Congrats on you know, leaving school

1111
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: in year ten and then doing your PhD and being

1112
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: a mum of two I'm sure awesome kids, and just

1113
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: being the energetic inspiration. You are high energy. You are

1114
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: high energy. And it's eight thirty as we speak, and

1115
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, this is a lot, but it's great.

1116
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: It's great.

1117
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: Appreciate that I was wondering.

1118
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: I was wondering how I was going to be with

1119
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: a seven thirty PM podcast. Thank god it was you,

1120
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: because you dragged me out of my slumber. We'll say

1121
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: goodbye affair. We'll say goodbye affair. But Sam, thanks so

1122
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: much for your time.

1123
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Graig appreciate it,