1
00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,920
Speaker 1: I'll get a team. Welcome to another installing the You Project.

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,840
Speaker 1: It's bloody harps, as it is every time. I hope

3
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,960
Speaker 1: one day, one day, maybe it'll an episode will happen

4
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 1: and somebody else will be here. They'll say all those words,

5
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: but they'll say it's Brian or it's Tip. It could

6
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 1: be anyone who knows. But for the time being, you've

7
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,279
Speaker 1: got me and what you're not here yet, you just

8
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,479
Speaker 1: pipe down. But for the foreseeable future, Doctor Sam, they're

9
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: stuck with me. Hi, doctor Sam, Welcome to the You Project.

10
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,640
Speaker 2: Thanks Craig, thanks for having me here.

11
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we I did not know about you until recently,

12
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: but you're a bit of a rock star. And I

13
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: tried to have a little I've got quite a few

14
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:51,199
Speaker 1: followers across my platforms and like a hundred thousand or something,

15
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: and so trying to try to know everyone who follows

16
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 1: me is an impossibility. But I probably don't look much

17
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,600
Speaker 1: on Facebook, but a period I look at just who's

18
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,320
Speaker 1: commenting or liking to see to get an idea of

19
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: who's interested in my stuff. And I was just scrolling

20
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,119
Speaker 1: down the other day and I saw doctor Sam Casey PhD,

21
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: and I went well, first, I didn't know if that

22
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,399
Speaker 1: was a boy or a girl, and it's you. It's well,

23
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 1: not a girl or a boy, it's a woman. It's

24
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 1: a grown, grown ass woman. And I looked at your

25
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,560
Speaker 1: Instagram page. Tell people your instapage. We normally plug at

26
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,559
Speaker 1: the end, not the start. But what's your insta page?

27
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 2: You simple? Yep?

28
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: Now, tell people what kind of doctor you are, and like,

29
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,960
Speaker 1: give them what kind of doctor you are. You're a PhD.

30
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 1: But what's it in and and what do you do?

31
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 1: Like you and I meet in an elevator, We got

32
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: forty seconds do we hit the ground floor? I go,

33
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 1: what do you do? What do you tell me?

34
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's a hard one. Well, can let me

35
00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 2: explain the doctor bit? So, yes, I have a pitch

36
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 2: So it's a research degree, so not a medical adopt

37
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,120
Speaker 2: my field of education with psychology, specifically around play therapy.

38
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 2: So that is my PhD. And yeah, what do I do?

39
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm a child therapist read to play therapist,

40
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,960
Speaker 2: and I really wanted to make play therapy more accessible,

41
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,280
Speaker 2: So really take it out of the playroom, take it

42
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 2: out of the therapy room, and get it into the

43
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,080
Speaker 2: hands of the professionals and the parents who are actually

44
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 2: around kids all day every day. So that's what I do.

45
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,800
Speaker 2: I teach. I guess how you prescribe play for you know,

46
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,640
Speaker 2: common childhood and parenting issues and making it really I

47
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 2: guess more of the lens in which I look at that,

48
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 2: and so going through all the different parts that I

49
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 2: would be thinking as a child therapist and what's important,

50
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 2: and then giving those tools to professionals so that they

51
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 2: can use it as like a decision making tool and

52
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 2: how to use play best for the child in front

53
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:55,119
Speaker 2: of them.

54
00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:01,080
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. And so when you say play therapy, what

55
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 1: to I don't know is treat the right word, but

56
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 1: to treat what? Or to assist with what? Or to Yeah?

57
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 1: So how is it a therapy? What does it treat? Yeah?

58
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 2: Good question. So play therapy is actually an evidence based treatment,

59
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 2: and it's a preventive model as well around emotional and

60
00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 2: behavioral issues in children, so you know, even things like

61
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 2: mental health, you know, so anxiety, depression, but also things

62
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 2: like school refusal, blended families, stress, anger, like all of

63
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 2: those kind of issues that you see arise in childhood.

64
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 2: And I think the greatest thing about play therapy is

65
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,080
Speaker 2: that you can start from like age three because play

66
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 2: is so accessible for kids. It's their language, it's how

67
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 2: they process the world, and that's how they use, I guess,

68
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 2: a tool to be able to figure out what makes

69
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 2: sense in their world and what's going on for them.

70
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 2: So they won't use language and talking like we do.

71
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 2: We can talk things out. Yeah, play it out, yeah, kids,

72
00:03:58,120 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 2: play it out?

73
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: All right. All right, I'm trying to get my head

74
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: around this. This is new for me. So thank you.

75
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 1: This is actually will you'll be pleased to know in

76
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: seventeen hundred and something episodes, we've never had this conversation.

77
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 1: So well done you, Matt. Yeah, no, it's good. This

78
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 1: is interesting. So can you give us and asks me

79
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 1: and a bunch of others listening. Can you give us,

80
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 1: me and the gang an example of a problem or

81
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 1: a challenge or an issue and then a prescription to

82
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 1: treat that, like just an example.

83
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, perfect. So if you had a child and

84
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,719
Speaker 2: you're seeing a challenging behavior. So for example, I had

85
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 2: this little boy and he was heading animals, so in

86
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 2: really being really aggressive towards animals, and so the professionals

87
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 2: around him. So as teacher, you know, speech therapist is

88
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 2: really concerned. Obviously, his auntie, who was his carel was

89
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 2: really concerned. And so because I don't know the root

90
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,040
Speaker 2: of that just yet, right, I took a non directive approach.

91
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 2: So what that means is like a child, let approach,

92
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 2: let them kind of lead. And it was really interesting

93
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 2: because the child straight away went to being a vet

94
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 2: and caring for animals. And so that was session one, right,

95
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 2: this child was being the one caring for the animals,

96
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,600
Speaker 2: and so as the sessions played out, what actually came

97
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 2: up was that it was really stemming from jealousy. So

98
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 2: that was his way in order to be able to

99
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 2: connect with his care and he didn't know how to

100
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 2: ask for those needs being met in terms of getting

101
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:30,840
Speaker 2: the connection, but he knew that if he was to

102
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,480
Speaker 2: hurt the animal, the care really cared about the animal.

103
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 2: And so when we started to do work with the

104
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,919
Speaker 2: care around that, those issues went. So imagine if I

105
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 2: went at it from a this is how you treat

106
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,200
Speaker 2: animals and we need to be kind and we need

107
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 2: to be this, I'd be assuming something that the child

108
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,400
Speaker 2: actually already knew. And so it was really about creating

109
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,640
Speaker 2: a therapytic space. So that child would actually process that himself,

110
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 2: and then obviously all the other issues came out, and

111
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 2: so we were able to, I guess, work with the

112
00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 2: people around him to directly do that. On the other

113
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 2: flip side, right, you could have a child with anxiety,

114
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 2: and so I had this child with anxiety, and post

115
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 2: Halloween he was really struggling. He did not leave his

116
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,479
Speaker 2: mom's site because he saw these obviously characters come out,

117
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,719
Speaker 2: you know, knocking on a stel trick of treats, and

118
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 2: he believed that was real. And even though the mum

119
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:16,920
Speaker 2: was trying to show him, hey, like you know this

120
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,520
Speaker 2: person behind the mask because it was a neighbor, he

121
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,840
Speaker 2: was too scared. And so in the Playstession, I took

122
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,720
Speaker 2: more of a directive approach because this was an issue

123
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 2: that had come up and it was really, you know,

124
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,799
Speaker 2: like he had generalized anxiety, but that had really obviously

125
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,279
Speaker 2: peaked to the point where he couldn't be learned in

126
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 2: the house. And so what we did is we played

127
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 2: a game, and so I re enacted to Halloween Seed.

128
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,480
Speaker 2: But then I was putting on the mask and taking

129
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,599
Speaker 2: off the mask, and I was talking about how scary

130
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 2: it is and how it looked, so real to me,

131
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 2: and so I really kind of reflected right how he

132
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,840
Speaker 2: was feeling. But then I worked him through that next

133
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,039
Speaker 2: step and so that child went home from that session

134
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,039
Speaker 2: and he was okay again. So it shows through the

135
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 2: power right child less directed?

136
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So right, so you're you are. So somebody's

137
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,320
Speaker 1: shows up with a problem or a challenge or an

138
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:08,719
Speaker 1: issue that needs to be treated. But then you design

139
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,840
Speaker 1: play or you design some kind of game. Not the

140
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,560
Speaker 1: right words, but you know what I mean around So

141
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,360
Speaker 1: it's not like, oh, here's the box of games over here.

142
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 1: You know there's or here's one hundred different play options.

143
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 1: Pick one of them. So is it your are there

144
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,119
Speaker 1: certain things that you would use consistently? Or is every

145
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 1: need in every kid in every situation kind of case by.

146
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 2: Case good questions. So usually in the playroom, especially that

147
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 2: first example that I gave, where we are just trying

148
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,680
Speaker 2: to explore, right and letting them lead, we have a

149
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,960
Speaker 2: range of toys that actually have a therapeutic I guess

150
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 2: goal points. So we'll have aggressive toys, we'll have nurturing toys,

151
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 2: we'll have real life toys, We'll have a lot of

152
00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 2: open ended toys. So things like you know, art materials,

153
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 2: or they could use it for a number of different things,

154
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 2: you know, kind of construction type toys. But to be honest,

155
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 2: the main toy in the tool in the toy box

156
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 2: is me. It's it's the person. It's the adult there

157
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,559
Speaker 2: to facilitate that. I could do this in the sand

158
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,120
Speaker 2: with sticks, right like, or I could have the best

159
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 2: of toys and still not be able to do it

160
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 2: if you just don't have the skill and the intention

161
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 2: behind what you're doing. So yeah, I very much believe

162
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,239
Speaker 2: that we as you know, the adult is the best

163
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 2: tool in the tool box.

164
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is true. That well, that makes sense. Okay,

165
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 1: There's so many things I want to ask you, so

166
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,080
Speaker 1: many things. Oh my god, I said to you forty

167
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,680
Speaker 1: five minutes. I reckon this might go longer. I'm writing myself.

168
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 1: This is not very professional everyone, but I'm writing notes

169
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:46,480
Speaker 1: as we go because.

170
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 2: Oh I love it.

171
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to forget the shit in my head

172
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,559
Speaker 1: to ask Sam. Okay, so I'm going to jump around

173
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 1: a little bit. But what was your PhD project? Like,

174
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,080
Speaker 1: what did you research for your PhD?

175
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? So it actually evolved as I went. Okay, so

176
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 2: this is really interesting and this is what I love

177
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 2: about doing a PhD like that and having supervisors that

178
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,080
Speaker 2: support that, because I'm so curious and what would you

179
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 2: come with obviously shouldn't be what you end with, and

180
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:12,959
Speaker 2: being able to call out things in the industry. You know,

181
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 2: you could obviously go two ways with that. So when

182
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,200
Speaker 2: I started, I obviously am multicultural, and so I came

183
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,959
Speaker 2: out from a I'm noticing that a lot of multicultural

184
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 2: families don't get therapy for their children, and I want

185
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 2: to know what their barriers are. I want to know

186
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 2: why there is this potential resistance for it. So I

187
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,520
Speaker 2: started off with interviewing a bunch of parents and I'm saying,

188
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 2: where is this resistance? How do you feel about therapy?

189
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: How do you feel about play? What would get you

190
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 2: to go? What would not get you to go? And

191
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 2: so they were like, I actually have no issue with

192
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 2: my child going to therapy. That's fine, But I'm just

193
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 2: really worried that when I talk to the therapists they're

194
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,720
Speaker 2: going to judge me. They're gonna, you know, have a

195
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,239
Speaker 2: different view worldview, They're going to be just like discriminating

196
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 2: against me. They're going to have these negative views about

197
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 2: my culture and I'm like, okay, interesting, so let me

198
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 2: talk to the therapists. So then I interviewed a bunch

199
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 2: of therapists and I'm like, so, what would be your

200
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,240
Speaker 2: barriers around working with families and children? And They're like, off,

201
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,000
Speaker 2: the child in the player room, no issue at all.

202
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,679
Speaker 2: But I really struggle with the families, you know, because

203
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,240
Speaker 2: they do have these really strong views. And then as

204
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,960
Speaker 2: the therapists were talking, they had all these negative bias

205
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, that's really interesting. So what

206
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 2: the parents are worried about is actually a reality, Like

207
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,440
Speaker 2: that's actually what happens. They had this bias and they

208
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,840
Speaker 2: didn't realize that they had it, and they all had

209
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 2: very different ways of looking at it. So they were like,

210
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,880
Speaker 2: in order to be respectful, I need to talk about culture,

211
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 2: like I need to bring that up straight away, and

212
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,040
Speaker 2: other ones would be like, in order to be respectful,

213
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 2: I need to leave culture out of it, Like, let's

214
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 2: not even go there. So they all had really different

215
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 2: views of what respect looks like. But no one was

216
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 2: checking in with the parents, right, So the children wasn't

217
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,079
Speaker 2: the issue here, it was the parents. And so I

218
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,720
Speaker 2: could have gone two ways with that, right, I could

219
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 2: have directed it back to what I was looking for,

220
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,320
Speaker 2: or I could say, wow, like there's just not enough

221
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,120
Speaker 2: in trainings. It's all a tick box, right, which is

222
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 2: learn about how to work with this culture. Now you've

223
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 2: attended the training tick versus what are your beliefs, what

224
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 2: everyone's got biased? What do you think about this? What

225
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 2: triggers you like, let's get deeper into this. So then

226
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 2: I created a t from both of those two research projects,

227
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,199
Speaker 2: so I actually published. I was publishing as I went.

228
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 2: So I published both and then I created a training

229
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 2: and I talked about this and I said, often what

230
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: therapistic they need is knowledge, and what we need is

231
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 2: more understanding of ourselves. And we need to have that

232
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 2: self reflection, look at where our blind spots are and

233
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,320
Speaker 2: be willing to work on those. And so I created

234
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,960
Speaker 2: this training, and a lot of therapists you know, gave

235
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,839
Speaker 2: me feedback around that. They were like, wow, I did

236
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 2: think that I needed more knowledge, but in actual fact,

237
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 2: I need to think about my views. What do I

238
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 2: define a respect? Why do I believe that, what are

239
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 2: my experiences of being minority? If I am like unpacking

240
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 2: it all? And so that's what I came away with,

241
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 2: and I guess that was really the foundation of my paperscription,

242
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,000
Speaker 2: which is we have to be doing it in a

243
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,880
Speaker 2: work ourselves, Like if we're going to be working with

244
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 2: kids and families, we need to check in with ourselves

245
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,280
Speaker 2: constantly about what's that bringing up? Because a lot of

246
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,160
Speaker 2: the time play brings up stuff for us.

247
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, my listeners are listening to this, I can

248
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,680
Speaker 1: tell you twenty eight percent fifty percent agoing. Fuck, she

249
00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,960
Speaker 1: talks fast? Has anyone ever told you to fast.

250
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,079
Speaker 2: All the time? And I really hope that they can

251
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 2: slow it down on the you know, the podcast thing

252
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 2: because I do.

253
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Sam, wow, you you are? You remind me

254
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,559
Speaker 1: of a guy called what's his name? American? Uh? I

255
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: think it's Ben Shapiro. He talks fast. You remind me

256
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 1: of him, but so not excited at all. That's interesting.

257
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,600
Speaker 1: So what were so you said that some of the

258
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 1: therapists had unconsciously had biases? What were they?

259
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,760
Speaker 2: They had their negative views about the family, So you know,

260
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,240
Speaker 2: for example, it could be like something as simple as oh, well,

261
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 2: you know, in their culture, you know, usually the men

262
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 2: make the decisions. So I was just going to talk

263
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 2: to the dad and just let the mom kind of

264
00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 2: you know, just be there because she would be making

265
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 2: decisions anyway. Like in their eyes, they thought they were

266
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 2: being respectful to the dad and the beliefs of what

267
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,959
Speaker 2: they perceived to be the family, rather than checking in right.

268
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,440
Speaker 2: So it was just again intentionally that there were trying

269
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 2: to be malicious or anything, but it was just coming

270
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 2: out in the way that they saw things based on

271
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 2: obviously their own experiences.

272
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 1: Right now, this is a little outside the professional kind

273
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,600
Speaker 1: of specialized focus, but as someone who works with kids

274
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: all the time and tries to understand the mind of

275
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,439
Speaker 1: kids and also in conjunction with the adults in their world,

276
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,160
Speaker 1: it's just something I'm curious about. Tell me about Halloween.

277
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 1: What the fuck do you think of Halloween? Like, what

278
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,679
Speaker 1: are you doctor, Sam? Do we need kids going to

279
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 1: strangers houses asking for lollies in twenty twenty four? Is

280
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 1: this what we need? Don't like in any other context? Imagine, Well,

281
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: I keep my gates shut, so I'm not firstly, I

282
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 1: don't know them. Well I'm not fucking handing out lollies

283
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,960
Speaker 1: to children, And to me, that's just the whole you know,

284
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 1: that's me though, That's I'm not saying I'm right. I

285
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think I'm right, but just to me, the

286
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,079
Speaker 1: idea of giving children a whole fucking handful of sugar

287
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,319
Speaker 1: and then sending them on their way, and with all

288
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 1: the shit that's going on with diabetes going through the

289
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,680
Speaker 1: roof and obesity going through the roof, I know we're

290
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,719
Speaker 1: not allowed to say it, but it's fucking true, right,

291
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 1: So I get offended or whatever, So it is so

292
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: just true, right, This is not an opinion. Like we've

293
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 1: never been We've never been a more obese nation, We've

294
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: never had more diabetes, we've never had worse fucking diets,

295
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 1: and now we're sending kids out to strangers to get

296
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 1: lollies and fucking sugar, and no one's saying I don't

297
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 1: know if this is a good idea, but I'm just

298
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,760
Speaker 1: a grumpy old man with them.

299
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm pretty big and interested in stuff too, especially for kids.

300
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,320
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of the time when you

301
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 2: see a lot of diagnosis is really young, right ADHD

302
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 2: things like that, no one's looking at the sugar intake

303
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,680
Speaker 2: at all. And so I think Halloween, Yes, that's kind

304
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 2: of goes against everything that we're saying, but I think

305
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 2: the bigg shoe really is in the schools because you know,

306
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,400
Speaker 2: at least in Australia we're still using lollipops and icy poles,

307
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 2: is treats for kids, Like, it's still the rewards that

308
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 2: are given, and then it's rewards for good behavior. So

309
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,920
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, so for a child to get rewarded,

310
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 2: you're giving in something that's going to spike their blood

311
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 2: sugar right up, Like it doesn't make sense.

312
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 1: Well, and I think it's no secret there's that there's

313
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: a correlation between obviously diet mental health and ADHD and

314
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,960
Speaker 1: kids ability to focus and putting fucking sugar in their bodies.

315
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,160
Speaker 1: And then you know, anyway, you're not here for that,

316
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 1: but doesn't matter. We can talk about whatever we want.

317
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 2: It is all related though, it is all related, even

318
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: for parents. I say that too when they're just like, oh,

319
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 2: I'm just losing my shit in the afternoons, like teaching

320
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 2: me how to be patient, and I'm like, well, have

321
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 2: have you eaten? Like are you having protein? You know

322
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 2: around that time, because of course you're not gonnaeel great

323
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 2: if you've like starved yourself all day or just et

324
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,680
Speaker 2: you know, the leftovers of kids snacks like that's not Yeah,

325
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 2: it's not good.

326
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 1: For you, So tell me how. I'm just cured if

327
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: anyone else is furious with this, but fuck it. How

328
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 1: does your job work? Inverted commas? In inverted commas to people?

329
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 1: Do you go to people's houses, do you have a facility?

330
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 1: Do they come to you? Do you go to organizations?

331
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: How does it work your job?

332
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 2: That's a good question, and it's evolved over the years.

333
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 2: So I was a mobile play therapist for a while.

334
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 2: I was going into schools and you know, doing it

335
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 2: that way, and then I had an office and really

336
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 2: right now, I do it online. And that's the reason

337
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 2: why I do that, and it's very intentional is because

338
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 2: a lot of the time, as the child therapist, people

339
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,640
Speaker 2: will be like, here is my child, fix this problem?

340
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 2: And a lot of you know, people are still operating

341
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 2: in that way. But I know from the research it

342
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 2: is way more effective to teach the professionals around them,

343
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 2: to teach the parents, to teach the you know, the teacher,

344
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 2: whoever else, to support a child's mental health. It does

345
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,680
Speaker 2: not have to be me. So I have purposely moved

346
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 2: online to be able to access that and going Actually,

347
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 2: I want to work with everyone around the child. They

348
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 2: have a lot more power and influence over the environment.

349
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 2: So it's important that they feel because it's not going

350
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 2: to be a ten session quick fix. You know, this

351
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,440
Speaker 2: is for life. Kids have mental health for life. So yeah,

352
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 2: for me, it's online. I meet with him online and

353
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 2: do it that way.

354
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,360
Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, by the way, did you know Ryan Holiday

355
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: follows you?

356
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 2: No? I did not know that.

357
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,679
Speaker 1: Really, did you not know that? I did not know that?

358
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I lot all his books.

359
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like Ryan Holiday. Now if you

360
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,920
Speaker 1: don't know, he's probably I mean, he's probably the biggest

361
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,119
Speaker 1: author on Stoicism in the last decade or so in

362
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 1: the world. He's always banging on, and he's a very

363
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: good writer, and he's a very good researcher. And obviously

364
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: he's no Socrates or Marcus Aurelius or Epictetis or but

365
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:44,440
Speaker 1: he talks about it all.

366
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 2: And he's he makes it makes sense though. Like I

367
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 2: was actually recently in Greece and I was getting all

368
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 2: up into the Greek philosophers, and just his books always

369
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:53,159
Speaker 2: come back at me.

370
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 1: Well, he follows you, doctor Sam. And I'm a little

371
00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 1: bit jealous because got a little bit of a crush

372
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 1: on him. So you were talking about the assumptions that

373
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 1: people make based on you know, uh, parents and families,

374
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 1: culture and stuff. What what's your background if you don't

375
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 1: mind me asking, Yeah.

376
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I'm so I'm Anglo Indian, so

377
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: it's like Indian mixed with Irish and English. I was

378
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 2: born in Australia though, and my parents came here when

379
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 2: there were six, both of them. So yeah, I feel

380
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: like i'm culturalise and part Australian.

381
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're an as you're an aussy dude, Yeah, you know.

382
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah so, And it says on your I just wanted

383
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: to ask you this because I found the interesting. It

384
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,639
Speaker 1: says on your ig profile recovering good girl. What what

385
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,880
Speaker 1: does that mean? What is recovery? What's a recovering good girl?

386
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 1: Did you used to be a good girl and now

387
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 1: and now you've.

388
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 2: Bed pretty much with the cause?

389
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,159
Speaker 1: What so you're now you're a good girl? And you

390
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 1: were a trade? No? No? You were you a straighty

391
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 1: one eighty? Were you like the perfect No?

392
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,640
Speaker 2: Well I was and then I wasn't so well kind

393
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: of so growing up I was like probably like the

394
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 2: good little Indian child, like I was really quiet, yes,

395
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: thank you please, so polite, did all the right things.

396
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 2: Was just you know, and this is probably the outer though,

397
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 2: because you know, my parents talk about how I was

398
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 2: like a bit of a rebel at home, but you know,

399
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 2: that's kind of how I grew up going I want

400
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 2: to do you know, I want to be good and

401
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 2: do things the right way, and I was always worried

402
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 2: about being nice and you know, again pleasing others. Obviously

403
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 2: lost a bit of that when I was a teenager

404
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 2: and I left school like halfway through year ten because

405
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 2: that's what I wanted to do. So there was definitely

406
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 2: a steering away from that. But then I continued that

407
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 2: in my adult life. You know, I was my marriage.

408
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 2: I married a Muslim, and you know, he had a

409
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,199
Speaker 2: lot of obviously strict rules around certain things, and I

410
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I'm going to be like this perfect

411
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,959
Speaker 2: wife and I'm gonna be this perfect mom. And then

412
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 2: I became a mom and I was like, I don't

413
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 2: want to be a perfect mom. That's not authentic. That's

414
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 2: not what I want to teach my daughter, and that's

415
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 2: not like the message I want to be sending. And

416
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: so then I had to go through this like I'm

417
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: I guess this whole inner work stuff of who am

418
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 2: I and what do I want and how I can

419
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 2: be more authentic in my own power And to be honest,

420
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 2: it was actually my daughter. So she's seven now and

421
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 2: my first one is nine, But it was a birth

422
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 2: of my daughter that really shook things up for me

423
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 2: because she reminded me of me when I was little,

424
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,639
Speaker 2: Like she had this power and like this little fire

425
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,879
Speaker 2: sorry in her and she knew what she wanted and

426
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: she like just wanted wants to go after it. And

427
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't actually support that and foster that.

428
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 2: I'm if I've shut that down within myself, like I

429
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 2: have to. I have to get that part of me

430
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: back that determines sam that you know, persevering through things.

431
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 2: But in ways that made sense to me, right, that

432
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 2: honored you know, who I was, And so yeah, that

433
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 2: was a whole journey in itself.

434
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 1: Wow, that is super interesting, like trying to trying to

435
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: figure out the self in the middle of our own life.

436
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: Like my PhD is in self awareness. But oh love that. Well. Yeah,

437
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 1: I'm always talking to people about you know, it's funny

438
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: when you ask somebody to tell to tell them for

439
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 1: them to tell you about them. So I'll go, you know,

440
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just sit down with someone and go, all right,

441
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: tell me about you, and then they tell me where

442
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: their house is and where they went to school, and

443
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: you know what star sign they are or what car

444
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: they drive, or I'm like, well, none of those are you.

445
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: They're interest that's interesting. But tell me about you though,

446
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,479
Speaker 1: not your car, not your job, not how many fucking

447
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: followers you've got. Don't tell me about your height or weight,

448
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 1: or you don't even tell me about your body, because

449
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: that's not you either, Like tell me about you, like,

450
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: not your brand, your business.

451
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 2: My point because I think a lot of people even

452
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,959
Speaker 2: use relationships are like I'm a you know, I'm this

453
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,959
Speaker 2: person's partner, I'm a wife, or I'm a mother or

454
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 2: like they just have these labels. But it's like, well,

455
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 2: that's a relationship that's not necessarily you.

456
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,959
Speaker 1: And I can hear my listeners going no, that is

457
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: a big part of who I am, And of course

458
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: I agree. But it's like, I think, the kind of

459
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: philosophical question and is trying to figure out in the

460
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: middle of all of the busyness, mayhem and roles and

461
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: you know that whatever, Oh, I'm an academic, or I'm

462
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: a bricklayer, I'm a fucking astronaut, or I'm a pisces,

463
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: or I'm a vegan, or I'm a crossfitter or I'm

464
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: a whatever. You know, it's like trying to figure out

465
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: the self in the middle of all. So can I

466
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: feel free to tell me to buck off with any

467
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: of these inappropriate questions? Doctor Sam? So did you become

468
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 1: a Muslim when you married a Muslim man? Was that

469
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: that's part of the deal, right?

470
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 2: Not something I identify with now, but yeah, at the time.

471
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: I did right, right? Okay? And so how is I

472
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about that in depth for obvious reasons,

473
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: but now being a So the kids live with you

474
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 1: all the time full time or no?

475
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: We share fifty to fifty customers, okay?

476
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: And so do you get to take any of your

477
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: therapy and theories and ideas around play for a test

478
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: drive with the kids? So they are they your crash

479
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: test dummies?

480
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: Of course, we like not in the way you'd think,

481
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 2: like I think a lot of the time people, you know,

482
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 2: you'd probably be thinking, I'm doing some sort of like

483
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: structure activity and I'm trying to teach them this. No,

484
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 2: it's like dance parties like every night, right, Like that's

485
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 2: my thing. I love having dance parties with my kids.

486
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: But yes, definitely, play is is a language. That's one

487
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: thing I focus on and in such a I guess

488
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 2: it's really potent. I think it's just so powerful, you know,

489
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 2: when they're going through something or if there's any stress

490
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: or whatever we're doing, it's just the perfect way to reconnect.

491
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 2: So yeah, love it. I'm very playful with them, but

492
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: also even just for myself too, like it's just a

493
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: way of life. Yeah.

494
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: There's a very famous quote by I think it's by

495
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: George Bernard Shaw and you would have heard it and

496
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: most of our listeners would have heard it, and it's

497
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: we don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow

498
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: old because we stop playing, right. And one of the

499
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: one I mean this is like one of my favorite

500
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: things is laughing at stupid shit, is hanging out if

501
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: generally it's my male friends, sometimes you know, females, but

502
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: male friends, talking shit about not much, riding my motorbikes,

503
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: not thinking, not having a serious conversation, not working on business,

504
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: not working on my study, not just just hanging out

505
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: and laughing at stupid shit, which I know ladies don't

506
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: love that as much.

507
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: I know I actually do it. It's funny because my

508
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 2: kids they like the number one thing, you know, when

509
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 2: we're hanging out in the evenings or ask like tell

510
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: me more embarrassing stories about what you did when you

511
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 2: were little, they just love it. Or even now, right,

512
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: they just like hearing embarrassing shit that I do. So

513
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: I gotta always like keep tab with that.

514
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: But I wonder why as we I wonder why we

515
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: stop prioritize, prioritizing having fun, Like I know, it's I

516
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: even ask grown ups, you know, I go, so, you know,

517
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: we go through everything we talked about last time, we

518
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: talk about you know, we talk about excise, and we

519
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: talk about purpose and focus and relationships and career and lifestyle,

520
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: and we talk about all the big ticket items, you know,

521
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: all the jigsaw puzzle pieces that make up the fucking

522
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: puzzle that is you. Right, But I often say to

523
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: people do you like having fun? And they look at

524
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: me like, well, that's the dumbest fucking question ever. Of course,

525
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: I go, what's your fun plan? They're like what, I go,

526
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: what's your fund? Like what are the things about fun plan?

527
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: I want to use that now well.

528
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, Like I think grown ups do not

529
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: have fun. I intentionally, I intentionally do things that there

530
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: is no purpose other than laughter or fun. That is

531
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: that is me, and I just like there's a component

532
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: of me and people who know me well, like I'm

533
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: a sixty year old, fucking twelve year old, Like do

534
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And it's like, if you're

535
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: ticking all these boxes and hustling and grinding and fucking whatever,

536
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: but your life is devoid of fun or laughter or joy,

537
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: I reckon, you got it wrong?

538
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, like are you even living right? But I think

539
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: a lot of the time it's a stress. It's not

540
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: just distress, but it's also you know, our minds are

541
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 2: caught up either in the past or the future. So

542
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 2: it's worrying about future stuff that may or may not happen,

543
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 2: or worrying about past mistakes or past shit that we

544
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: can't really change. In it, we're not really present. And

545
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time people think of

546
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: presence as like meditation or yoga. No, it's played like

547
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: if you're in the moment and you're having fun and

548
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: you're laughing, like you're present, like you're yeah, just loving life.

549
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: Maybe with adults that like, it's not so much typically

550
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: a childlike play, but perhaps more creativity where we're creating

551
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: something like I'm People would think I'm much more science

552
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: here because of my work and my degrees and stuff,

553
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: but I'm actually more of a creative Like I love

554
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: conceptualizing something, coming up with an idea and turning that

555
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: thing in my head into a thing in the world

556
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: that intersects in a three dimensional way with humans. You know.

557
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: It's like and whether or not that's whatever, you know.

558
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: It's like, I opened the first personal training business in

559
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: Australia and at least fifty adults told me not to

560
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: do it, people who knew more than me in inverted commas.

561
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: Right, they said, the first one in Australia. That's incredible.

562
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was in nine ninety. That

563
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: was thirty four years ago, when you weren't even born.

564
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: That's annoying.

565
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: I was actually born in nineteen nineties, Oh were you?

566
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: So that's yeah, so what the year you were born?

567
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I don't know, great because it

568
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: would have happened anyway, But I had, you know, I

569
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: was training people. There were virtually like I started training

570
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: pting in nineteen eighty six, which is, you know, obviously

571
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: nearly forty years ago, and there was pretty much no one,

572
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: if anyone, doing that in Australia. There was no qualification,

573
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: there was no course, there was no registration, there was

574
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: no insurance, there was no industry, there was no personal

575
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: training industry.

576
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: Right, wow, you and the dumbbells.

577
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, just me and the dumbbells.

578
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: And I basically, you know, had this idea and I'm

579
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 3: sure somebody else would have had the idea, but to

580
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 3: conceptualize that and to start doing appointment only training with

581
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: people and you know, figuring out this shit and then

582
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 3: you eventually and yes, of course it would have happened

583
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 3: despite me, but it so happens.

584
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: I got in on the ground floor. And then to

585
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: watch this idea that I had four decades ago become

586
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 1: this flourishing thing that it is, it's like, you know,

587
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: and then whatever it is, you know, it's like you

588
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: I just launched a new workshop tonight which is called

589
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: as We Record. It's the third of December. It's a

590
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: Tuesday night called pre Season twenty twenty five, right, And

591
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: so even with that, I go, all right, I'm going

592
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: to do a workshop about helping people get their shit

593
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: together so that their New Year's resolutions actually turn into

594
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: something tangible, not just to fucking another year roles by

595
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: where they have these conversations and set these goals and

596
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: have these wishes that never.

597
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 2: N nothing changes. Of course, to bring that, you know,

598
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: back to the PT stuff, I think weight training is

599
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: the perfect thing for that. I absolutely love weight training.

600
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: I think it's been such a game changer for mental health,

601
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: for everything. But it's also a way to show up

602
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: for yourself. And you're having to like sit with the weights, right,

603
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: and you know, some exercises I'm like, oh, I can

604
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: go heavier. Others I'm like, oh, I think it's too much.

605
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: And you're having to find that perfect balance of growing

606
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: your muscles. So you have to push yourself obviously not

607
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: to the point of injury, but then obviously not to

608
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: the point if you're not feeling anything. And it's just

609
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: that constant again presence with yourself. And I find this

610
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: year different exercises, different days. Feel stronger one day, feel

611
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: a bit weaker the next, But you know, when you're

612
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: tracking that it's really exciting. I think weight training is

613
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: amazing for that.

614
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also I mean also you can So when

615
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: I train every night, I'm with one of my best

616
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: mates and another mate and sometimes there's a third one.

617
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: So I trained tonight with John and Mark, two of

618
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: my mates, and that for me, that's play because we.

619
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: Are playing around my playground.

620
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Well, it's like a big fucking grown ups playground.

621
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: It is heavyweights in itself is like a prescription, right,

622
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: It's amazing, Oh so much.

623
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: So I can't really say it too much anymore because

624
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: people roll their eyes and go, well, of course you

625
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: fucking say that.

626
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: Can I say them? I'll say it.

627
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've noticed quite quite a few grown ups, more

628
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: women than men, I think. But that's just what I've seen.

629
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: So it could be wrong getting into grown ups getting

630
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: into coloring coloring books? Have you seen that?

631
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: I have mindful coloring books. That's a thing.

632
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, what what is that? Is that? Just? Is that

633
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: like a is that a metaation? Is that a throwback

634
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: to childhood where it creates neuro associations with good taptivity.

635
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: It's one of the things to help people be more mindful,

636
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 2: to be more present, you know when you're coloring in

637
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: and there's obviously this light design. You're actually you're sitting

638
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: there and you're coloring, and it kind of brings you

639
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: back to the now. So it's just another tool. But

640
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: I can you've got to find your thing. Like, for me,

641
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: that's not a thing. I don't enjoy that. I mean,

642
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: I'm sitting down a lot of the day. So for me,

643
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: it's with the weight training. I need to be able

644
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: to move. That's been me being mindful. But for some

645
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: other people, yeah, it's the coloring in books. They love it.

646
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: So I think it's about testing different things, experimenting and finding,

647
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: you know, what works for you.

648
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm interested to hear about the girl who dropped out

649
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: in year ten who is now a fucking PhD. Like, what, right,

650
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: that's a bit of it. Well, I don't you might

651
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: be the first one I've met. I don't know too

652
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: many people that finish school in year ten. And even so,

653
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: let's say year ten, you were what fifteen or something? Yeah,

654
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: I in two thousand and five ish, there weren't too

655
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: many people finishing school at year ten, right.

656
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: No, but I definitely was the first out of there.

657
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about that. Journey from wanting

658
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: to get out of school to getting Obviously, you went

659
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: back and did did you do year twelve? Or you

660
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: just started an undergrad as a mature aid student or

661
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: what did you do?

662
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: So I'll go with the getting out first, right. So

663
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: I was failing school, like I couldn't focus. I was

664
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: just there to socialize. I wasn't retaining stuff, I wasn't interested.

665
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: Like nothing made sense to me. And so I was like,

666
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: what can I do? Like leaving year ten? I can

667
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: be a hairdresser. I love doing my hair. That makes sense.

668
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: So that was my plan? Why not?

669
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: Right? Quite the master plan, doctor Sam.

670
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: I was pretty impressed with myself. I was like, this

671
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 2: is it? Of course, you know, life at other plans.

672
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: And I found myself working at a childcay center because

673
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: apparently that's one of the places you can get a

674
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: job without any tape studies. Because even Cape wouldn't take me.

675
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: So I actually take, for those who don't know, is

676
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: like a higher education, not quite university, but that little

677
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: bit lower. And because I didn't finish there ten, I

678
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: couldn't get in there. So I started working at this

679
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: childcare center and I came across the little boy and

680
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: he had just visited his parents and he was in

681
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: care child protection, right, so he was with foster carers.

682
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: But he just visited his parents and he came back

683
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 2: and he was super aggressive, and I had all of

684
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: the childcare workers telling me how to handle the behavior,

685
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: and just a part of me was like, I think,

686
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: I just need to be around, not too close, but

687
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: just be there and let him play out what he

688
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: needed to. And I saw how therapeutic that was. It

689
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: was like a release, and I was like, this must

690
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: be a thing. So I went home. Obviously there was

691
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: no Google, it was like nine MSM. But I was

692
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: like play therapy. And then I found this huge world

693
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: of play therapy, which was massive in America, not quite

694
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: big in Australia yet, and that's when I was like,

695
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: I'm going back. So I did a trainee ship, so

696
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: I did like a certificate three in children's services while

697
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: I was working at the childcare center. And then I

698
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: did a university preparation course and then I did in

699
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: undergrad in psychology and children Family Studies, and that was

700
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: just amazing, Like I absolutely loved everything about what I

701
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: was learning. I still didn't know though, the next step,

702
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: and I started doing play therapy studies and that's when

703
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: I discovered I could do a Master of Social Work

704
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: and work in shop protection because I really wanted to

705
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 2: experience that, but then still keep going with my play therapy.

706
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: So did that, and then I actually wanted to do

707
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: more play therapy studies. I became a wretched play therapist.

708
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 2: And thankfully it was the lecture at the university that

709
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: was like, well, you want to do your research, why

710
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: do another master's do a PhD? And I was like,

711
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: I can't do a PhD. I don't have the grades

712
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: for that, and she was like, no, you know, you

713
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 2: start off doing research and you know you prove yourself,

714
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: like you show that you can work at that level.

715
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I ended up getting into this PhD program.

716
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: I ended up getting a scholarship just by you know,

717
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: being a credit average student. I definitely didn't ace university

718
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: and anything, but I had this vision and it was

719
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: amazing how many doors just kept opening when I just

720
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to be an expand play therapy,

721
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: like that is why I'm here, and so it almost

722
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: like it sparked this huge internal drive within me.

723
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing, that's amazing. Isn't it funny how the

724
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: girl who couldn't focus, the girl that was failing, becomes

725
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: the woman that gets a PhD and can focus. And

726
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: so how old were you when you started your first degree?

727
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: So I was nineteen.

728
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: Wow. Well that was a quick That was a pretty

729
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: quick turnaround.

730
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

731
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: I mean it went from wow wow. And so you

732
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: figured out at fifteen or sixteen how to manage this

733
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: kid that was for most other people unmanageable.

734
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was this intuit like it was weird

735
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 2: because it was this intuitive thing of like, I know

736
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: everything I've been taught. This goes back to the good

737
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: girl conditioning right of wanting to be a good childcare worker.

738
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: I knew everything I was taught. I knew all the

739
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: strategies and how to redirect the play and distract and

740
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: all of those things. But another part of me was like,

741
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 2: he's really struggling right now, and I think he needs

742
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: me here to take over, but just to really hear

743
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: what he's saying. And he's not using words, but he's

744
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: playing out something. And so when I did that, and

745
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: I saw the benefit of how much that just released him,

746
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: and then he just came back into the fold of

747
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: everything I saw. I witnessed that power of play, and

748
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: I was like sold. You know, before I even learned

749
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: anything about it, I was like, this is the thing

750
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: I need to get out here. I need to show

751
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 2: other people. And I was using it in all other

752
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 2: you know, when I was working in to our Protection,

753
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 2: I started to use that. I used it in all

754
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: different settings. And I think it's just so powerful when

755
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: we know how to sit back and not take over

756
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: and let the child play.

757
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: Is this kind of therapy potentially going to help some

758
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: kids avoid being medicated?

759
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: I think so. I think very much though, because what

760
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: ends up happening, especially if the parents doing it. We

761
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: have obviously the play therapy models where we teach parents this,

762
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: but when parents get to know their child's needs, it's

763
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 2: not so much a we need to squash this, but

764
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: rather what do they need? And then they go get

765
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: that need met. I mean, I was the person studying

766
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: and then taking a break on the trampoline. I'll go

767
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 2: all you know, going for a quick ride and then

768
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 2: coming back Like I was able to figure that out

769
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: for myself doing a PhD, because I did that online.

770
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: But for a lot of the kids at school, they

771
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: don't have that environment. So I think having caregivers around

772
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: where they tap into their energy would definitely say kids

773
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: from getting medicated because they're actually being able to build

774
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: the other things right in learning how their brain works well.

775
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: And you think about like when you take a drug,

776
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: it's changing your brain chemistry, When you bounce on a trampoline,

777
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: it's changing your brain chemistry. When you lie on the

778
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: floor and cuddle a dog. If you love dogs, it changes,

779
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: or even if you hate them, right, but in a

780
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: different way. But it's all about how do I change,

781
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, how do I change what's happening in my body?

782
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: You know these anxiety responses, or these dopamine or this

783
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: serotinin response or this you know, like cortisole response, or

784
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many ways to manipulate the one

785
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: of the more scientific term the inner workings of the body, right,

786
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: you know, hormonally, nervous system, all of those things that

787
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: don't necessarily and by the way, everyone this is not

788
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: a recommendation or a prescription. This is just a conversation.

789
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: But I think you know, like even we've seen in

790
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: grown ups the comparison between people who use the right

791
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: kind of exercise to treat depression versus an antidepressant, and

792
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: in nearly all of the studies will all of the

793
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: studies that I've looked at anyway, University of South Australia

794
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: did a big one this time last year. I think

795
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: it was November twenty twenty three. UNISA came out with

796
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: these massive this massive paper around how exercise outperforms or

797
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: in their study it outperformed you know, antidepressants. And again

798
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: we're not telling anyone to get off anything or on anything,

799
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: but it's at the very least it's worth, you know,

800
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: if we can do something to our body, or support

801
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: other people to do something which is fun based or

802
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: play based or you know, something that's actually going to

803
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: change what's happening in not only their brain and their

804
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: mind but also their entire body, it's worth at least exploring, right,

805
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: Oh definitely.

806
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 2: And I think we we just don't get the power

807
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: of things like exercise. And I think even for a

808
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: lot of women, I hear this where they're like, oh,

809
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: but I don't like to run, and I'm like, no

810
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 2: one said you have to run. You know, there's different

811
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: kinds of movements, but I think it's comes down to

812
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: us taking responsibility as well, really for our lives and

813
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: our habits and going okay, like feeling depressed. Yes, medication

814
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: could be one piece of that Puzzleble what else? How

815
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 2: am I spending my time? You know? Am I moving

816
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: my body? Like you said? What am I filling my

817
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: body with? And then being able to continue to tweak

818
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: those things and get to the root causes of that,

819
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: you know, the emotional eating, whatever else is going on.

820
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: So I think for me, anyway, I think it comes

821
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: down to taking that responsibility for our lives than our habits,

822
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: and like you said, they rewire our brain like it's

823
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: so powerful.

824
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: Also, here's another idea, doctors, Sam, you know I don't

825
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: like running, Well, it doesn't matter. You don't have to

826
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: like it like you'll like it like not. And I'm

827
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: not you know, I'm not trying to be a hard ass,

828
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: but we don't need to like everything. Not everything needs

829
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: to be fun or painless. Right, Sometimes the things that

830
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: are really fucking effective suck for a little bit of time.

831
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's uncomfortable, like no one likes to do it.

832
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: I wasn't like super like Joyce the whole time I

833
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 2: was with my PhD or even exercising. I still don't

834
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: want to do it sometimes, but you'll never regret doing it.

835
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: And I think when you know that, then you develop

836
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 2: that self discipline right where you're like, yes, I don't

837
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: feel like it, but I'm going to do the thing anyway,

838
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: And that feels self trust, which is really important.

839
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean the other thing is too. You know,

840
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: when you go for your run whatever, you're doing something

841
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: good for your heart and your lungs and your body

842
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: and all of that. But you know what else is

843
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: interesting is you know, it's that whole kind of that

844
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: old chestnut about it's not about getting to the top

845
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 1: of the mountain. That's about who you become on the climb, right,

846
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: who might becoming like when I do these you know,

847
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: and Andrew Human talks about the anterior mid singulate cortex,

848
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: the part of the brain that literally gets a bit

849
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: bigger when we do things that are hard that we

850
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: don't want to do right, And it's that like when

851
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: I lean into the suck, right, when I do the

852
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: shit that I know that I need to do to

853
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: create the outcome I want, but in the moment, I

854
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: don't want to do it. I don't feel like doing it,

855
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: but I do it nonetheless. Apart from ticking the box

856
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: and creating progress, what I'm doing to myself is I'm

857
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: building competence and resilience and strength and cognitive fitness. Right

858
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm actually changing. Just like when you go and lift

859
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: heavy shit, you build muscles. Well, when you go and

860
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: lift heavy shit with your mind, metaphorically, you're building decision

861
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: making muscles, You're building resilience muscles, you're building calm and

862
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: the chaos equanimity muscle. You know. So sometimes we've just

863
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: got to do shit that in the moment we don't.

864
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: Want to do definitely. And I think often when we're

865
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: in situations like that, we can just blame the external

866
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: like I'm too busy right now, or I've got young kids,

867
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: or I've got this work schedule, I have no time.

868
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: But if we honestly sat there in a room with

869
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: just us and I don't know the book or you

870
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: know us, and the ways we realize it's actually just

871
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: really hard. We're just blaming external stuff. We take a

872
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: lot of that out, it's still hard.

873
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: And this is part of you know, self awareness, Like

874
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 1: real self awareness is painful because you know, like when

875
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: you really do and I said to Melissa, who runs

876
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: my life. We're having a chat the other day, and

877
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: everyone thinks everyone says to me, not everyone, that's bullshit.

878
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: A lot of people have said to me, Sam, Yeah, oh,

879
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: you work so hard, you work so much, you work

880
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: so many hours. You know, you're doing this and that,

881
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: and you know what I kind of do. But also

882
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: I fuck around, like I waste time. Like, yes, I

883
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, I do a podcast every day of

884
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: the year, right, but I mean that's an hour a day, Like,

885
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: it's not exactly ten hours a day. Right. Then I've

886
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: got to write some copy and come up with a title,

887
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit of time. And yes, I'm studying,

888
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: and yeah, I do like quite a lot of corporate

889
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: gigs a year and all of that stuff. But honestly,

890
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: also I waste a lot of time. And I was

891
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: talking to Melissa about this the other day and I said,

892
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: everyone thinks I work harder than I actually work, and

893
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: I don't. I kind of let them think that because

894
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 1: my ego likes it, right, But it's actually not true,

895
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: Like it depends on you know, what the baseline is

896
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: or what the comparison is. But you know, and I

897
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: just think that this in this whole space of you

898
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about now, which is you know,

899
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: like training our mind or training our body, or and

900
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 1: then owning up without beating yourself up. No, not self clothing,

901
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: self awareness, but owning up and going, you know what,

902
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm wasting my time or I'm I'm the problem. It's

903
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: like we like everyone else to be the problem because

904
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: if everyone else is the problem, we need to change, right,

905
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't need to Well, it's Sam's fault, clearly, and

906
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: if it's Sam's fault, then Craig doesn't have to change.

907
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 2: So that suits Craig, you know, yeah, yeah, you're so

908
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: right about that. And it almost like it keeps us stuck, right,

909
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: the avoidance of that keeps us stuck rather than calling

910
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: ourselves out on our shit in a really loving way,

911
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: but in a like this is I'm getting in my

912
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: own way here, like what am I doing? Like what

913
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 2: needs to shift? And I think that's really empowering. I

914
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: mean it's uncomfortable, but it's empowering.

915
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: And how many of us, so I know we've changed

916
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: tact in the conversation doesn't matter, but how many of

917
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: us really waste potential? Waste? Time, waste energy, and then

918
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: I mean you've not you, not you clearly, but you

919
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: know I and I don't meant it in a judging way.

920
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 1: I meant it in a supportive way. Like I meet

921
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: so many people who are one hundred percent smarter than me,

922
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: Like they're smarter than me, they've got more talent, they've

923
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: got I'm like, fuck, I wish I had your genetics.

924
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: I wish I had your creativity. I wish I had

925
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: your brain and your memory. Like I meet so many

926
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 1: people who have got so much potential, but they're either

927
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: paralyzed by fear or they're trapped in some kind of

928
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: I don't know them well, I don't know OCD or

929
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: or laziness or avoidance or a bit of all of it,

930
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: or and they just kind of hope an opportunity comes along.

931
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, here's an idea, create an opportunity, you know,

932
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: go on.

933
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: I doesn't say no, You're so right about that. I like,

934
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 2: I say this all the time, Like I, you know,

935
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: did not get the best grades in university, and there

936
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: was so many students that are like fully surpassing me

937
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: in terms of their intellect, and even PhD students that

938
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 2: were working double the amount as I was I doing,

939
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: and yet I was making more progress. Why because they

940
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: were really struggling with failure, any any perceived bit of failure.

941
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: They just couldn't take it. It was just too much and

942
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: they didn't know how to. It's almost like they were

943
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: on level ten and they just had to write up

944
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: their level one and they just couldn't do that anymore.

945
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 2: It was really tough. So I realized that's actually a benefit,

946
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: right when we can call ourselves that our own ship.

947
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 2: But also when we're used to failure, when we see

948
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: that as part of the process, we then don't fear it.

949
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: We just keep up leveling because we're like, cool, I'm

950
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: on the right track.

951
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: I read I read in your notes that you work

952
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: in prisons. Is that right? Or you did What does

953
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: a play therapist do in prison?

954
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: Well, see, I'm not just a play therapist. I'm a

955
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: mentor health social worker. So I do counseling. So I've

956
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 2: done counseling, you know, with moms, wait in private practice.

957
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: You know, prison is another environment. Yeah, so not doing play.

958
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: That's a big cross section of the humanity. Yeah, yeah,

959
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: it is.

960
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 2: But I think when you work with the double. It's right.

961
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: We're always working within a child and even with ourselves,

962
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: like there's always that you know, kind of core childhood

963
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: wounds that we all have and it still runs our

964
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: life because that's where a lot of our programming was

965
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 2: really set down, and that's how we see the world.

966
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 2: And so I think that that lens is really helpful

967
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: too when working with adults.

968
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: What do you think This is just an opinion, but

969
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: what do you think gets in the way most people? Like,

970
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: most people are not where they want to be. It

971
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they hate their life, but most people, if

972
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: you say, who'd like to be make more money, or

973
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: be leaner, or change your body, be healthier, fitter, or

974
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, like most people have got something or some

975
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: things about their life that they really want to change,

976
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: but at the same time, they're not doing anything to

977
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: change it. Right, Yep, what do you think that's about?

978
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: Oh, there's so much there, But I think it comes

979
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: down to how they see themselves really, right, go on, yeah,

980
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 2: go on expanding sound okay, So how they see themselves.

981
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: They have really limiting beliefs and so like let's just

982
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: say exercise, Okay, someone you know wants to get healthier,

983
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,479
Speaker 2: they're gonna what they do is they got all or nothing.

984
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: So they're like, I need to be that person that's

985
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 2: at the gym, you know, for an hour a day,

986
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: and I need to have all the right clothes and

987
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: I need to do it in this way. And the

988
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: second that they don't, they're like, it's all I can't

989
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: do this. I always do this, I always fail this,

990
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: and they just go back to living their life. It's

991
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 2: almost like the shame kind of takes over.

992
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: Right.

993
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: So it's either like I'm also more on horrible. There's

994
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: nothing in between, and so they're not psychologically flexible in

995
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: the sense of going, I need I need to call

996
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: myself out in this I keep getting in my own way.

997
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: What are my barriers? I need to show up for

998
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 2: myself every day. I need to believe that I can

999
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 2: be that person. And so it's closing the gap between

1000
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: who they want to be and where they are now.

1001
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: And so imagine this going I'm actually that person that

1002
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: shows up for myself every day and I do movement

1003
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 2: could be ten minutes at home, it could be an

1004
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 2: hour long gym sash, but every day I am that person.

1005
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: Then it becomes a part of their identity and so again,

1006
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 2: when they believe in themselves like that, they they're able

1007
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: to do that, and I feel like a lot of

1008
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: people aren't.

1009
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I think also being okay with

1010
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: fucking up, you know, like so many people that I've

1011
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: worked with over the years, they'll say to me something

1012
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: like fell off the wagon on the weekend. I'm like,

1013
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: what is what? What wagon? What wagon? Is it?

1014
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: Fucking up? Though? If there is no wagon, Like I'm

1015
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: renowned for going out right on and on a Saturday

1016
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 2: night and having the cock downs and having a late night,

1017
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: and then I'm at the gym in the morning. I'm like,

1018
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: you know, I've recovered from that, and I don't see

1019
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 2: it this as fucking up. It's probably not the best workout.

1020
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I would say like eight out of ten

1021
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: times it's a pretty weak performance, but I show up,

1022
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 2: and for me, it's like success. That's all I want

1023
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 2: to do. I want to show up for the fun,

1024
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: but I also want to show up for the accountability part.

1025
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 2: And then every now and again, I'm actually stronger, probably

1026
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: from all the extra food or all the extra things.

1027
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: But I think it's people perceiving I've just fucked up.

1028
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 2: I've gone off track, Versus I don't see this getting

1029
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: off track. I see it as you know, part of

1030
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: a very balanced life is that when you're present and

1031
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: you can have fun and you know how to, you know,

1032
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: be able to put all that aside. But then when

1033
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: it's time to show up for yourself and be disciplined,

1034
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: you can do that. So I'm that person at work

1035
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: where I've got my little Typeway container and I've got

1036
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: my meal prep. But I'm also that person that can

1037
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: go to an event and just be present and eat

1038
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: whatever's there. Do you see what I mean? And both

1039
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: serve a purpose. People aren't good at doing that. They

1040
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: kind of see that as contradictory, versus I see it

1041
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: is very a walking contradiction. But I see it's very

1042
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 2: in a child healing where we can do both, we

1043
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 2: can be both.

1044
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing. It's like if what

1045
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: I was kind of alluding to is people will eat

1046
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: grape for four weeks and then they'll have a tymtam

1047
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: or two timtams and they go, oh, fucked it up now,

1048
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: and then they go on a six day bender because

1049
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: they ate two tymtams. And so it ain't about the Timtams.

1050
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: It's about the psychological and emotional reaction to the two

1051
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: tympamps because the two Timtams don't fucking matter.

1052
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: They don't and like the ability to get back on

1053
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 2: truck as quickly as possible. And that's what I think

1054
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 2: about on the weekend right, a lot of people wipe

1055
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: out their weekend versus if you really take it apart,

1056
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: Yes you can have an all some night and a

1057
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 2: great night and you can do all the things, but

1058
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: then you get back on track the next you know, day,

1059
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: or the next even like if you've had a big lunch,

1060
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 2: you could still then you know, be more conscious for dinner. Like,

1061
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 2: I think people write things off too much, and that

1062
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: comes down to what I said before, the all or

1063
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 2: nothing mindset, rather than just being a bit more flexible

1064
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: with life.

1065
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: Trying to manage us. That's the ever present reality. I

1066
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: should start a show called the U Project where we

1067
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: talk about how we can manage ourselves.

1068
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 2: There's a thought, what a great idea you should get

1069
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: onto that, Like asam.

1070
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: Now I'm the ideas guy. Hey, your ace, We're going

1071
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: to get you back and talk about more things. We

1072
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: might need to adjust your speed down to point eight

1073
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: zero point eight, just so my sixty year olds can

1074
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: keep up with you. But how do people find you, Sam,

1075
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: connect with you and potentially do some work with you.

1076
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: How to just steer our audience where you want to?

1077
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm mostly active on Instagram, so that's doctor

1078
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: Sam Casey. They can find me on my website, which

1079
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 2: is doctor Samcasey dot com. Or I'm on Facebook as well,

1080
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: but yeah, Instagram is, I would say, my go to.

1081
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: So check me out on.

1082
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: Your fun and interesting and clever, and congrats on what

1083
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: you're doing. Congrats on you know, leaving school in year

1084
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: ten and then doing your PhD and being a mum

1085
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: of two I'm sure awesome kids, and just being the

1086
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: energetic inspiration. You are high energy. You are high energy.

1087
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: And it's eight point thirty as we speak, and I'm like, wow,

1088
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: this is a lot, but it's great. It's great.

1089
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: Appreciate that I was wondering.

1090
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: I was wondering how I was going to be with

1091
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: a seven thirty PM podcast. Thank god it was you,

1092
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: because you dragged me out of my slumber. We'll say

1093
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: goodbye affair. We'll say goodbye affair. But Sam, thanks so

1094
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: much for your time.

1095
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Craig appreciate it.