WEBVTT - Rick Morton on Bill Shorten’s NDIS overhaul 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:03.480 From Schwarz Media. I'm Ashlin McGee. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:11.879 This is seven am. There are two things to know 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.680 about the National Disability Insurance Scheme. The first is that 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.720 it makes such a huge difference to so many lives, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.960 and the second is that it's wildly expensive and getting 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.479 more so every year. So how to reconcile those two things. Well, 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.000 the government is trying to do just that with a 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.800 new piece of legislation that's been shrouded in secrecy for months. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.080 Today the Saturday Paper is. 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.760 Rick Morton on the holes in that legislation and why 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:45.200 could hand the Disability Agency extraordinary new powers. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.000 It's Wednesday, June five. 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:54.680 Rick. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.840 The NDAs is one of the biggest schemes we've ever 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.320 had in this country. Can I ask you first about 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.360 this state of the INDAS today? 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:04.720 Yeah, I mean it is an extraordinary scheme and there's 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:06.840 nothing like it anywhere else in the world where the 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.320 first jurisdiction to kind of come up with an insurance 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.320 model for people with profound and severe disabilities who need 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.960 support living their lives. It's not welfare. It's a scheme 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.200 to actually, you know, give them support workers, help them 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.920 get out of the house, purchase new wheelchairs, therapy, things 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.200 like that. And it's a little over a decade old now, 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.760 it began in twenty thirteen, and it's had a few 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.679 teething problems. I think it's fair to say. And certainly 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.240 one of the elements that has been the kind of 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.639 lightning rod for every discussion has been that it's growing 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:35.360 massively in. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.840 Cost is the ABC can reveal forecasts will show the 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:43.400 cost of the NDS rivaling that of Medicare within three years, 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.959 more than thirty billion dollars annually. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:46.959 Expect that. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:48.400 And then, of course, when you've got a big bucket 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:53.040 of government money, you've got dodgy contractors, dodgy providers. 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.160 Wroughters are on notice. For too long they've been using 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.360 the NDS to line their own pockets while people living 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.480 with the disability and their carers are short changed. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:05.560 That's the backdrop to wear we're at now. And so 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.320 by the time Bill Shorton gets into government with Albanesi 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.680 as Prime Minister, it's his second time around as a minister, 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:13.560 he is fully of the view that there needs to 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:14.120 be reformed. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:21.000 The National Disability Insurance Scheme is here to stay. It 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:28.040 is not going away. But and this is important, we 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:29.520 don't need to get it back on track. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.720 It's not completely beyond redemption, but it needs to get 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.920 back to the original focus of what the Indians is 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.400 meant to be, which is kind of like really good 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.080 thorough support for the five hundred six hundred thousand people 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:43.639 most in need out of a population of about four 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.000 million people who have some form of disability. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.160 In Australia, the NDAs has changed lives of hundreds of 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.480 thousands of Australias of disability and their families. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.440 And the NDOS review was finally released in the first 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:03.639 week of December last year. However, since the NBAS Review, 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:05.680 the government went a little bit quiet. They hadn't actually 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:07.519 responded to the NBAS Review, and then all of a 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.680 sudden in March, the Minister for the NBAS Bill shortened 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.480 kind of surprises disability advocates when he gets up in 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:19.120 Parliament and introduces legislation that amends quite significantly the National 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.160 Disability Insurance Scheme with the promise of allowing disabled people 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.080 co design and consultation on the finer aspects of it. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:31.600 Down the track, first reading a Bill for an Act 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:35.680 to Amend the National Disability Insurance Scheme at twenty thirteen 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:37.880 and for related purposes. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.160 I'm called the Honorable Minister. 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:40.960 Thank you. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.480 Nobody had seen the bill at this point. Those who 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.080 had half an hour earlier were forced to sign non 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.920 disclosure agreements. But of course Shorten gets up into the 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.120 House Representatives to talk about all of this, and he 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.000 essentially says, you know, we need to make the NDO 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.320 secure for future generations. We need to make it safer 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.920 for people who use NDA support services. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.680 And I can respect nervousness which might be caused by 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.600 this discussion. I just want to reassure these people who've 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.920 battled hard to create an Indie Eyes and to get 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.840 their packages of support, we will work with you to 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.640 make sure that people are getting the right support in. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:19.880 The right way. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.520 Under this government, this scheme will continue to grow. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:26.719 And so I've been talking to people as I've been 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.120 getting their heads around there, but particularly you know, disability 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.280 advocates who are involved in the Participant Reference Group on 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.800 the National Disability Insurance Scheme but also National Disability Legal Services, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.400 and they've got some pretty significant concerns right. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.120 So as people are getting to spend a bit more 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.280 time with the legislation and get into a bit more 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.560 of that detail. What kinds of things are they discovering there. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.600 I think the main issue is that a they're worried 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.360 about why we're doing the legislation right this second, because 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.640 what it does is kind of sets in concrete a 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.760 lot of new powers for the government and the National 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.719 de Disability Insurance Agency which runs the NDAs. A really 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.800 good example of that is this new needs assessment. It's 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.280 a new way for the agency to issue orders, to 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.680 get reports and an assessment based on a tool that 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.000 we don't know what it is yet. We don't know 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.480 who's going to administer that tool, so it's some kind 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.960 of it's not a medical assessment, but similar to if 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:28.120 you're doing it like an ADHD diagnosis test or an 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.560 autism test, but it's something for all disability which doesn't 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.200 really exist. And importantly, what this new legislation does is 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:35.800 kind of says that we're going to come up with 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.240 a budget, an NBA support budget, based on an outcome 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.120 of that needs assessment, but we don't know any of 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.480 that detail. Now. This particularly concerns people because it does 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.800 have some kind of eerie similarities to a twenty twenty 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.880 one push from then coalition government to introduce mandatory what 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.560 they called independent assessments. So essentially they said, well, you 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.080 can't use your treating doctor or you're treating therapist anymore. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.120 We're going to get government appointed independent asscesses to tell 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.599 us what your functional need is and they're going to 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.600 tell the NDAA how much support you need. The concern 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.200 here is that the drafting here is so bad that 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.840 there are a bunch of perhaps unintended consequences where the 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.720 needs assessment doesn't look like it can be reviewed if 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.359 someone gets it wrong. And of course the bill was 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.960 almost immediately referred once they got to the Senate to 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.760 the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry. And then when 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:29.640 you get to the Villamante Disability Legal Service submission, and 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.520 they again they represent clients who are kind of fighting 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.279 the National Disability Insurance Scheme, their submission is one of 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.000 the most daming that I've ever read in any inquiry. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.080 They eventually go on to say that this kind of 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.760 needs assessment model that has been introduced in this legislation 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.240 and the way in which it seems to tie automatically 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.599 into a budget tool decision. Villamanta said that if this 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:53.960 were to get up, this would be the NDAs equivalent 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.480 of robodet in the sense that we're talking about automated 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.320 decision making based on inputs that aren't really controlled or 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:04.800 reviewable by unknown needs assessors and you don't really have 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:05.680 much say in the matter. 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.680 Rick, We've just talked about how there was this big 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.600 review into the NDIS, but just to clarify, this legislation 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.360 isn't a response to that review. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.200 This is separate. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.680 Well, the review gave twenty six recommendations, and this legislation 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.880 focuses on giving the government and the NDAA more power 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.720 and all of the good stuff, quote unquote. It's not 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.000 here yet, it's promised, it's not delivered, and now we're 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.320 being promised again that that's going to happen and that 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:35.400 we just have to wait for it. But this bill 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.440 has come first. And that's the key issue that a 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.360 lot of people have with this at this current point 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.000 in time, which is like why are we doing this now? 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.600 And I think a really good example of that is 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.280 that there is this discussion about primary and secondary disabilities. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.560 I won't go into the full background, but currently under 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.200 the NDIS, they've been quite inconsistently with the current law 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.320 giving people access to the NDIS and then deciding what 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.840 funding they will get based only on a primary disability. 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.680 So if you're someone with a spinal cord injury who 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.880 also has a serious psychosocial mental health disability, they might 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.240 say your spinal cord injury is your only disability, and 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.920 they just ignore the secondary ones because to them, they're like, well, 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.000 we gave you access under spinal cord, so we're going 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.360 to give you some support workers to help you feed yourself, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.280 get dressed, shower, all those sort of things, but we're 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.559 not going to help you with any of the social 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.400 anxiety when you have outings or something like that. Now, 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.640 that's not what they're saying in public, like even in 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:29.400 the Parliament when Bill short And got up to talk 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.280 about it, he says, your needs assessment will look at 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.400 your support needs as a whole, and we won't distinguish 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:38.360 between primary and secondary disabilities any longer. But the bill 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.920 explicitly and repeatedly states that only impairments for which a 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.480 person meets the criteria should be assessed, which means if 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.920 you've got a lower level disability that wouldn't otherwise get 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.480 you in the NBAS. In addition to a quote unquote 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.360 primary disability. It's just not forming part of the assessment 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.880 under the way this bill is currently drafted. So when 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:59.840 you take all these things together, the changes that are 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.760 posed in the new legislation create what some people are 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.839 saying is is kind of like stunning new matrix of 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.839 uncertainty that disabled people or their cares or family or 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.839 guardians will be expected to navigate, and it explicitly ties 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:18.600 failure to do that to increased punishment or consequences if 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:19.160 you get it wrong. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.160 After the break, focus on debts and compliance and what 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:41.280 that could mean for people on the ndis Rick, You're 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.240 someone who spent years of your life covering Robodeat, and 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.679 I'm sure your ears prick up at any kind of 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.319 legislation that talks about retrieving debts. What do we know 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.199 about the powers in this legislation to pursue debts in 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:53.680 the system. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:55.839 This is the stuff that kind of really gets my 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.960 spider sense tingling these days, because I've got a long memory. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.160 And so when I was covering this in twenty twenty one, 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.240 I received in the coalition at the time, Stewart Robert 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:06.800 and then Linda Reynolds were trying to get this new 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.520 legislation up and fall through independent assessments. The minister denies 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.400 there's been a lack of consultation. He says independent assessments 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.679 are part of the scheme's original design. 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.079 Now is the time to do the last piece of 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.880 the build. We're now on the second trial of independent assessments, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:24.559 will continue to engage draw. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.079 I received a leaked copy of the internal drafting of 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.079 the new legislation at the time under the coalition, and 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.560 I had all the NBIA agency directors and branch managers 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.760 commenting on what they wanted and how it was going 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.559 to work. And one of the people commenting on that 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.640 was one of the architects internally of ROBODEBT, and they 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.480 were very enthusiastic at the time about trying to get 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.719 up an explicit link. In fact, this is one of 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.440 their comments that the debt that the agency was raising 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.520 was against the disabled person, not against the third party provider, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.960 because that's too hard for them to get back again 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.320 to the person receiving the NDA support money. And then 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.599 later on they kind of go further by saying my 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.839 reading of this is that it provides a clear legislative 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.600 basis for stopping future payments until we have received previously 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.360 requested information and documentation. That was a separate section where 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.560 there was a new information gathering power which we've seen 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.640 resurrected under this new bill. So there's a new power 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.480 under this legislation that Bill Shorton's put before the Parliament 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.080 that allows the CEO to demand any information that they 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:32.320 see fit literally anything if they're making a decision about 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:37.280 revoking someone's access. And so taken together, you know you've 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.600 got the ability to raise debts against people. You've got 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.240 the ability to demand information from people and then revoke 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.880 their access to the scheme which has never existed in 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.440 that form in the NDAs before. And you've got these 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.160 sections from twenty twenty one which were essentially a wish 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.719 list from the agency, which they never got at the 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.800 time because the opposition led by Bill Shorten, not led 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.120 by but the campaign was led by him as the 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.560 opposition spokesman on NDIS matters. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.320 For the past eight years, we've seen a successive Liberal 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.800 governments have continuously gone low when Australians are demanding the 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.199 high road for people with disability. We cannot forget that 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.160 this is the government who will legally forced thousands of Australians, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.040 many of whom were extremely disadvantaged, to repay back money 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.199 they never owed in the robodebt scandal. There's been colossal 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.040 wistmanagement of the NDIS at the very top, and it's 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.319 people of disabilities who are being required to pay for 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:31.439 the mistakes of others. 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.800 They killed that reform and they killed independent assessments, and 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.680 of course now we're seeing some elements of that reform 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:40.839 back on the table. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.200 You've been talking to a whole lot of people right 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.240 across the disability sector about what this new legislation would 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.439 mean for them if it passes. Can you talk me 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.959 through what it would mean for someone who is on 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.360 a care package? Play me out a hypothetical. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.760 This is pretty easy to do, actually, because we already 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.520 see some pretty dodgy behavior from the agency now. So 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.080 if you're a person at a disability and you've got 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.559 an NDAs funding package and they've given you under the 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.120 new legislation, they've given you. Some of it is stated support, 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:10.839 whether you have to spend it on certain things, so 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.560 it's like you have to spend it on an ot 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:16.640 therapist or a speech pathologist. But then some of it's 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.559 flexible where it's like, well, you know, we've given you 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.480 a you know, let's say ten thousand dollars that you 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.679 can spend on things that are important for your disability 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.440 that help you function in the world. Now, if at 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.079 a later date you've spent five thousand dollars of that 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:36.319 on respite, and because the respite brochure includes other things 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.200 like horse riding or something like that, and the agency decides, well, 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.679 actually that's not appropriate, even though they haven't done the 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.199 full investigation into what you spent the money on that 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.160 was not an approved NDA support. You need to pay 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.120 that money back. So they're raising a debt against you 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.000 even though you have already paid for the service. And 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.079 so you don't have that five thousand dollars anymore. And 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.760 you made that decision in perfectly good faith. Suddenly this 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.760 compliance measure clause money back from you. If they don't 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.720 want to raise it dead against you, they can decide that, actually, 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.120 you're not capable of managing your own plan anymore, and 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:07.960 they've got to make it agency managed. So they're going 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.520 to restrict your choice in control. I don't want to 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.760 be alarmist, but it's almost like a casualist debit card 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.600 in that sense for NDS support plans if they think 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.199 you've done the wrong thing. Now, Bill Shorten and the 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.480 Department of Social Services have come back to me on 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.960 this and said, no, no, no, we sort assurances it 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.880 will only ever be used in extreme cases, particularly around fraud, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.800 which is what they're really worried about, and people spending 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.520 money on the wrong things, and no one argues that 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.160 you shouldn't do something about that. But the problem is, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.040 as it's been put to me by legal academics and 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.720 legal aid people, is that the legislation doesn't say that 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:44.200 it gives the power hole US bowlers to the agency. 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.200 So really what we're talking about here is that if 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.680 this law gets passed and in the future, the CEO says, hey, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.280 we need you to give us all of your medical 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.800 history and also every time you've ever visited a certain 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.520 type of clinic, and if you don't, we're going to 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.600 turn off your support package or kick you off the 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.560 scheme altogether. And you know, let's say you've got a massive, 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.560 profound cognitive impairment, or you don't have family around you 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.520 and you don't respond to that request, or you can't 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.520 get those documents within ninety days. It's quite likely or 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.320 possible that you can get kicked off the scheme or 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.600 lose your funding and support and you've got nothing. People 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.640 have been crushed by the bureaucracy and we've seen it 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.400 happen time and time again within the existing infrastructure. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:32.360 Right. 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.000 So what's Bill Shorten had to say about all of this, Well, you. 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:37.640 Know, he says there's no where EGO involved in this, 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.680 so he's kind of foreshadowed that there's going to be 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.080 a bunch of different amendments still coming to this legislation. Now. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.480 Bill Shorton says that you know, never in the history 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.480 of modern Australia has a government done more work with 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.560 disabled people, more consultation with disabled people to come up 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.680 with a way to help support them. Shorten a lot 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.120 of his legacy is tied to the NBAS and now 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.880 that he's the minister years down the track, there is 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:06.960 so much writing on this moment, this legislation, this reform 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.680 in terms of how we see the rest of that legacy. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.160 Player Rick, we've been talking about how much the NDIES 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.480 costs and how much it's projected to growing cost and 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.840 of course that's why the government is promising some kind 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.680 of reform. I think that sort of everyone agrees that 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.360 has to happen. So if we're talking about a context 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.000 of cost savings, what's wrong with focusing on compliance? 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.400 Yeah, I mean the problem with compliance and I think 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.320 Robott is the extreme version of this, right, But the 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.360 problem with compliance in general is that it's really actually 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.960 quite expensive, but also the cost to people is extremely 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.520 harmful when it's weaponized and change needed to happen. But 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.320 my concern had always been that it's going to be 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.480 people on the NDAs who were promised something who are 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.360 going to have that ripped away. And the fear is 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.760 what happens after Bill shorten, what happens with the next government, 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:00.800 what happens when compliance becomes the easy way to get 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.359 money back. When you start to see fraud and roughting 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:10.920 and compliance issues, suddenly everything looks like fraud and roughting 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.000 and compliance issues, when really what you're looking at it's 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:20.359 compliance brain. People thought everyone in Robodett were criminals, and 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.440 when you get compliance brain, you see them wherever you go. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.159 And the NDIS is a place where you can't afford 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.360 to get that wrong, because they're talking about people who 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.400 are already fighting this kind of crazy bureaucracy. And constantly 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.840 being told that they're a burden on the system when 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.639 they just want to live lives and contribute to society. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.359 And that's what the NDIAS has allowed them to do. 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.000 When it works well for people, it works so well. 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.080 And when it doesn't, it's typically because people don't have 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.800 the capacity in their own lives to fight for themselves. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.280 And this is certainly what disabili advocates worried about, is like, 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.679 you know, talk is cheap, and we've got a culture problem. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.639 And now we've got this legislation before we've got all 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.680 the other stuff that we were promised. What's going to 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:08.440 happen down the track? 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.200 Rick, Thanks so much of your time. 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:14.159 Thanks that. 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.000 Also in the news today, Defense Minister Richard Miles is 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.480 announced a timeline for allowing non Australian citizens to serve 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.840 in the Australian military. Miles said that as part of 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.760 a plan to grow the number of recruits new Zealanders 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.080 have been residents for more than twelve months, we'll be 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.280 able to serve from July this year, followed by Americans, 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:53.720 Canadians and UK citizens from January next year. And the 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.320 New South Wales government says it's concerned by an indigenous 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.440 hip hop artist song being played in schools. The song, 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.719 by rapper and activist Birds, is written from the perspective 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.760 of an Indigenous warrior and refers to Captain Cooker's White Devil. 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.399 It was used as a school bell at a school 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.600 in Sydney's South during Reconciliation Week. The New South Wales 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.480 education departments launched an investigation, with Premier Chris Mins. 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.480 Declaring that rap songs in general probably not. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.800 The best for New South Wales schools. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.200 My name's Ashley McGhee. That's all from the seven AMTM 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.000 for today. Thanks for your company. We'll see you again tomorrow.