1 00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:05,990 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:05,990 --> 00:00:09,210 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. If you're like me, you've probably heard stories about 3 00:00:09,289 --> 00:00:14,180 Sean Aylmer: NFTs, Non- fungible tokens, and not really understood what's going 4 00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:16,890 Sean Aylmer: on. A lot of those stories have been reported as 5 00:00:16,890 --> 00:00:20,800 Sean Aylmer: extravagant novelties like Twitter founder, Jack Dorsey, selling his first 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,259 Sean Aylmer: ever tweet as an NFT for almost 3 million US 7 00:00:24,260 --> 00:00:27,440 Sean Aylmer: dollars. Along the same lines, digital art is being sold 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,600 Sean Aylmer: by auction house Christie's and original versions of songs and 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,050 Sean Aylmer: videos are also being purchased as NFTs. Put simply, a non- 10 00:00:35,110 --> 00:00:39,170 Sean Aylmer: fungible token is a unique digital token usually part of 11 00:00:39,170 --> 00:00:43,110 Sean Aylmer: the Ethereum cryptocurrency blockchain. The important part is that it's 12 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:46,540 Sean Aylmer: unique, meaning the NFT of a digital artwork, a video 13 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:49,530 Sean Aylmer: or song or similar can be verified as the original. 14 00:00:49,870 --> 00:00:52,810 Sean Aylmer: It all sounds very high- tech, but an Australian company 15 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:55,660 Sean Aylmer: is taking it mainstream and they've just raised $ 82 million 16 00:00:56,020 --> 00:00:58,640 Sean Aylmer: to help do it. Robbie Ferguson is the co- founder 17 00:00:58,690 --> 00:01:01,560 Sean Aylmer: of Immutable and he's my guest this morning. Robbie, welcome 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:02,280 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 19 00:01:02,830 --> 00:01:03,441 Robbie Ferguson: Thanks, Sean. It's great to be here. 20 00:01:03,441 --> 00:01:06,880 Sean Aylmer: One of the great things about my job, Robbie, is that I get 21 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,550 Sean Aylmer: to talk to experts about things which I know very 22 00:01:09,850 --> 00:01:12,360 Sean Aylmer: little about. How did I go in my explanation of what NFT is? 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,199 Robbie Ferguson: I think very accurate actually. So, I think the important 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,180 Robbie Ferguson: thing to remember about NFTs is that right now, although 25 00:01:22,180 --> 00:01:24,370 Robbie Ferguson: all the news is centered on a few use cases 26 00:01:24,490 --> 00:01:27,480 Robbie Ferguson: of it that's just what they are, use cases. And 27 00:01:27,580 --> 00:01:30,900 Robbie Ferguson: ultimately all in NFT is, is a new technology, which 28 00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:35,160 Robbie Ferguson: allows us to enable people to own digital stuff. And 29 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,760 Robbie Ferguson: that stuff could be anything from Jack Dorsey's tweet, to 30 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,759 Robbie Ferguson: a piece of digital art, to an item inside a 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,959 Robbie Ferguson: video game, or even to a financial asset. So the 32 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,380 Robbie Ferguson: implications are very broad and we're just tapping the surface 33 00:01:47,380 --> 00:01:48,920 Robbie Ferguson: of what NFTs will encapsulate. 34 00:01:49,390 --> 00:01:51,960 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So we talked about Jack Dorsey's tweet because of 35 00:01:52,130 --> 00:01:55,860 Sean Aylmer: the cost of it. Why should normal people care about 36 00:01:56,530 --> 00:01:59,760 Sean Aylmer: NFTs? At the moment we're talking about very specific things, 37 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,170 Sean Aylmer: but is the use case potentially far greater? 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,710 Robbie Ferguson: Yeah. I would answer, why should normal people care about Bitcoin or about Ethereum? 39 00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:09,070 Robbie Ferguson: And the answer I would give to that is because 40 00:02:09,070 --> 00:02:11,290 Robbie Ferguson: it's likely going to be the backend of the financial 41 00:02:11,290 --> 00:02:14,280 Robbie Ferguson: institutions that you use on a daily basis in a decade. 42 00:02:14,740 --> 00:02:20,130 Robbie Ferguson: And we're seeing these types of cryptocurrencies and decentralised applications 43 00:02:20,380 --> 00:02:26,730 Robbie Ferguson: take over centralised finance everywhere. We're seeing new financial technology 44 00:02:26,730 --> 00:02:30,560 Robbie Ferguson: companies use DeFi (Decentralised Finance platforms) as part of their backend. We've seen an insane 45 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,710 Robbie Ferguson: uptake on adoption over the past year, and we're seeing 46 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:37,590 Robbie Ferguson: that same trend now applied to NFTs. Except the use 47 00:02:37,590 --> 00:02:42,109 Robbie Ferguson: cases are slightly different. So, the fundamental value proposition of 48 00:02:42,110 --> 00:02:46,710 Robbie Ferguson: blockchain is the ability for people to own things uniquely. 49 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:50,300 Robbie Ferguson: Enforce almost, the example I like to use is physics, 50 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:53,639 Robbie Ferguson: because if I send you $ 10 on a bank account, 51 00:02:54,060 --> 00:02:56,850 Robbie Ferguson: there's nothing to prove that I no longer have that $ 10. 52 00:02:56,930 --> 00:02:59,070 Robbie Ferguson: It's just a line on a database somewhere enforced by 53 00:02:59,070 --> 00:03:02,760 Robbie Ferguson: that bank. But if I give you say a physical $ 54 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,010 Robbie Ferguson: 10 note or a physical item worth $ 10, the rules 55 00:03:06,010 --> 00:03:08,210 Robbie Ferguson: of physics enforce that I no longer own that because 56 00:03:08,210 --> 00:03:11,910 Robbie Ferguson: only one instance of that can exist in the world. It's literally assets. 57 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,850 Robbie Ferguson: Now we can do that same stuff with digital assets. 58 00:03:15,850 --> 00:03:19,130 Robbie Ferguson: We saw it with Bitcoin and Ethereum for fungible stuff, so currencies. 59 00:03:19,550 --> 00:03:23,380 Robbie Ferguson: And NFTs now allow us to do that for any unique digital object. 60 00:03:23,380 --> 00:03:26,239 Robbie Ferguson: And the implications are huge. It's come out in the 61 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,940 Robbie Ferguson: form of art, which is awesome and sexy and people 62 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:32,419 Robbie Ferguson: are getting really excited about the huge volumes. But I 63 00:03:32,419 --> 00:03:34,680 Robbie Ferguson: actually think some of the mainstream use cases that are 64 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,610 Robbie Ferguson: going to come out are the ownership of in- game 65 00:03:37,610 --> 00:03:42,640 Robbie Ferguson: items in video games, the ownership of unique financial assets. There's 66 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,060 Robbie Ferguson: a huge topology of financial assets that aren't fungible in 67 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:49,660 Robbie Ferguson: nature at all, whether they are insurance contracts, which ensure 68 00:03:49,660 --> 00:03:53,230 Robbie Ferguson: a unique set of circumstances, whether it is a term deposit, 69 00:03:53,300 --> 00:03:56,370 Robbie Ferguson: which is distinguished from other term deposits based on its 70 00:03:56,370 --> 00:03:59,710 Robbie Ferguson: yield rate and the nature of the underlying asset being held. 71 00:04:00,250 --> 00:04:02,500 Robbie Ferguson: All of these assets can now be held in a 72 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:05,370 Robbie Ferguson: unique manner with the same benefits that blockchain is bought 73 00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:06,990 Robbie Ferguson: to fungible currencies. 74 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:09,070 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So there's a few things there. I'm going to 75 00:04:09,070 --> 00:04:11,809 Sean Aylmer: take a step back then I'm going to come to the financial exam 76 00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:14,170 Sean Aylmer: because I think that's really interesting. The way I'm thinking 77 00:04:14,170 --> 00:04:16,610 Sean Aylmer: about it. It's kind of like a grand master painting 78 00:04:16,610 --> 00:04:18,529 Sean Aylmer: or something like that, or even a Monet or something 79 00:04:18,529 --> 00:04:21,420 Sean Aylmer: like that, which someone owns the original. Though, there are 80 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:23,440 Sean Aylmer: lots of prints of it around the place, but someone 81 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,700 Sean Aylmer: actually owns it. And what we're talking here is that 82 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:29,900 Sean Aylmer: digital token, you own the original digital asset. What happens 83 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:32,990 Sean Aylmer: in terms of, do you own the rights to reproduce it? 84 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,790 Sean Aylmer: So when I'm thinking of the Monet, I'm thinking of 85 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,200 Sean Aylmer: to reproduce a Monet, theoretically, at least you're suppose to 86 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,180 Sean Aylmer: ask for permission to do that. Is that the same in an NFT? 87 00:04:43,180 --> 00:04:47,380 Robbie Ferguson: It's a great question. How I posture that is, if 88 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:51,220 Robbie Ferguson: you buy, say a rare piece of art, do you 89 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:56,200 Robbie Ferguson: suddenly get the rights to reproducing that artwork, to distributing it, 90 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:57,810 Robbie Ferguson: to putting it on t- shirts? 91 00:04:57,900 --> 00:04:57,979 Sean Aylmer: No. 92 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,510 Robbie Ferguson: And the answer is... well it depends, right? It depends on 93 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,240 Robbie Ferguson: the particular arrangement of the IP. And so I think 94 00:05:04,550 --> 00:05:07,070 Robbie Ferguson: the same answer applies here, which is, that's kind of 95 00:05:07,070 --> 00:05:10,960 Robbie Ferguson: the beautiful thing about NFTs is it doesn't actually rely on law 96 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:14,200 Robbie Ferguson: or IP rights to enforce value. It's just, you own 97 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,089 Robbie Ferguson: the thing. But obviously different IP rights could be associated 98 00:05:17,089 --> 00:05:20,250 Robbie Ferguson: based on whatever contract your organising with the owner of 99 00:05:20,339 --> 00:05:20,850 Robbie Ferguson: that IP. 100 00:05:21,890 --> 00:05:24,500 Sean Aylmer: So if we bring this to the use case for everyday people 101 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:28,750 Sean Aylmer: like me potentially then NFTs can come into their own 102 00:05:29,089 --> 00:05:33,740 Sean Aylmer: where you're talking about fairly bespoke contracts, be that financial contracts, 103 00:05:33,740 --> 00:05:36,029 Sean Aylmer: insurance contracts, that type of thing. Is that right? 104 00:05:36,420 --> 00:05:41,040 Robbie Ferguson: Yeah. So, I would say any financial instrument, which is unique 105 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,650 Robbie Ferguson: in nature. So you'd want to trade uniquely should and will 106 00:05:44,830 --> 00:05:47,570 Robbie Ferguson: be encapsulated by NFTs at some point in time. And 107 00:05:47,570 --> 00:05:50,589 Robbie Ferguson: there are a huge amounts of this. So as I said before, 108 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,380 Robbie Ferguson: any insurance contract you have is generally going to be 109 00:05:53,380 --> 00:05:57,089 Robbie Ferguson: fairly unique. You're insuring maybe a particular property. You have 110 00:05:57,150 --> 00:06:00,390 Robbie Ferguson: a particular set of risk parameters based on the people 111 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,580 Robbie Ferguson: procuring that insurance. And if you want to make that 112 00:06:03,580 --> 00:06:06,700 Robbie Ferguson: tradable and the world is leaning towards everything being tradable, 113 00:06:06,860 --> 00:06:09,540 Robbie Ferguson: whether that's at a consumer to consumer level or whether 114 00:06:09,540 --> 00:06:12,290 Robbie Ferguson: that's at a business to business level to enable re- 115 00:06:12,290 --> 00:06:15,619 Robbie Ferguson: insurance and better forms of risk management and more competitive 116 00:06:15,620 --> 00:06:19,610 Robbie Ferguson: business models. We're going to see everything trend towards that. And suddenly we can 117 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:23,370 Robbie Ferguson: take that same insurance contracts encapsulated as an NFT, and have it be 118 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:24,910 Robbie Ferguson: traded with that value proposition. 119 00:06:25,290 --> 00:06:27,130 Sean Aylmer: So if we get down this path what I can 120 00:06:27,130 --> 00:06:30,270 Sean Aylmer: imagine is that NFTs become a much more efficient way 121 00:06:30,510 --> 00:06:32,740 Sean Aylmer: of trading all sorts of instruments in the future. 122 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,969 Robbie Ferguson: Yeah, exactly efficient and most importantly, they're exposed to all 123 00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:40,940 Robbie Ferguson: the innovation that we're seeing in DeFi today. So it means 124 00:06:40,940 --> 00:06:45,290 Robbie Ferguson: that let's say you have your insurance contract and it's 125 00:06:45,290 --> 00:06:47,940 Robbie Ferguson: worth some particular amount. You can then use it to 126 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,180 Robbie Ferguson: be staked as collateral and gain the loan in a 127 00:06:51,180 --> 00:06:53,560 Robbie Ferguson: fungible currency that you can use more readily. Or you could 128 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,609 Robbie Ferguson: use it in some other type of DeFi contract. And 129 00:06:55,610 --> 00:06:59,960 Robbie Ferguson: it's this instant interoperability with every kind of other decentralised 130 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:04,190 Robbie Ferguson: financial institution built as an application that's the true kind 131 00:07:04,190 --> 00:07:04,940 Robbie Ferguson: of power here. 132 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:07,440 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Stay with me, Robbie. We'll be back in a 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:07,770 Sean Aylmer: minute. 134 00:07:12,770 --> 00:07:15,440 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Robbie Ferguson co- founder of 135 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,670 Sean Aylmer: Immutable. So the surge in the market for NFTs has 136 00:07:18,670 --> 00:07:21,190 Sean Aylmer: been quite incredible. I was reading some numbers and it's 137 00:07:21,190 --> 00:07:22,950 Sean Aylmer: gone from being measured in the hundreds of millions of 138 00:07:23,140 --> 00:07:27,270 Sean Aylmer: dollars to the billions of dollars quarter on quarter. Why 139 00:07:27,410 --> 00:07:28,540 Sean Aylmer: such growth do you think? 140 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:31,590 Robbie Ferguson: So the majority of the growth in NFTs over the past year 141 00:07:32,380 --> 00:07:37,070 Robbie Ferguson: has been in collectibles and art. So really valuable financial 142 00:07:37,530 --> 00:07:40,490 Robbie Ferguson: assets where people are buying it with probably the expectation 143 00:07:40,490 --> 00:07:43,080 Robbie Ferguson: that they'll increase in value in the future. And this 144 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,900 Robbie Ferguson: is how we've seen literally NFT volumes go from say 145 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,210 Robbie Ferguson: 20 million a month to 100s of millions in some cases, 146 00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:54,370 Robbie Ferguson: even billions, which is pretty insane. And then I think 147 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,220 Robbie Ferguson: we're starting to see volumes pick up in gaming as well, 148 00:07:57,220 --> 00:07:59,820 Robbie Ferguson: which is quite exciting. And the start our quote here, 149 00:08:00,190 --> 00:08:02,420 Robbie Ferguson: and this is how we originally got into the business. 150 00:08:02,420 --> 00:08:04,350 Robbie Ferguson: This is why we really took it up is way 151 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:06,880 Robbie Ferguson: back in 2017 we were looking at when an NFT 152 00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:08,960 Robbie Ferguson: first came out in the form of Crypto Punk, which 153 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:10,740 Robbie Ferguson: obviously has made a name for itself over the past 154 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:14,780 Robbie Ferguson: couple of months. And we thought this was the technology 155 00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:18,930 Robbie Ferguson: that would allow people to take items in video games. And 156 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,290 Robbie Ferguson: people pay literally a 100 billion us dollars per year 157 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:27,080 Robbie Ferguson: to purchase items in video games to consume content. They're 158 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:27,840 Robbie Ferguson: not purchasing- 159 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:29,680 Sean Aylmer: Robbie why? 160 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:33,730 Robbie Ferguson: Because it's their identity. It's how they purchase entertainment. It's 161 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:37,939 Robbie Ferguson: why would you purchase a Red Sox Jersey or a 162 00:08:38,950 --> 00:08:41,130 Robbie Ferguson: cool piece of memorabilia? It allows them to connect with their 163 00:08:41,130 --> 00:08:45,510 Robbie Ferguson: friends. And this also includes utility- based consumables such as 164 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:47,910 Robbie Ferguson: in Candy Crush, buying gems that allow you to progress 165 00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:50,270 Robbie Ferguson: to the next stage. But importantly, what it's not is 166 00:08:50,429 --> 00:08:54,689 Robbie Ferguson: it's not buying the box DVD or game disc that allows you 167 00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:57,870 Robbie Ferguson: to actually access the game. It's people's spending on in- 168 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:01,470 Robbie Ferguson: game content. And of course they're getting completely ripped off because they 169 00:09:01,470 --> 00:09:03,480 Robbie Ferguson: can't sell any of this. If you buy a skin 170 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,510 Robbie Ferguson: in Fortnite, if you buy trading cards in Hearthstone, you 171 00:09:06,510 --> 00:09:08,830 Robbie Ferguson: don't have any ability to resell that ever. You have 172 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:13,870 Robbie Ferguson: zero rights. And even marketplaces like Steam are incredibly controlled 173 00:09:13,870 --> 00:09:16,339 Robbie Ferguson: and incredibly restricted, and you really don't have any assurance 174 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:19,189 Robbie Ferguson: that they won't just reprint a whole bunch of that 175 00:09:19,190 --> 00:09:23,079 Robbie Ferguson: item in the future and remove it to zero via inflation. 176 00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:23,360 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 177 00:09:23,610 --> 00:09:27,300 Robbie Ferguson: And so that entire market would be instantly replaced by 178 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,880 Robbie Ferguson: a vastly superior model if it were done with NFTs, because 179 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,090 Robbie Ferguson: now people would have the option to sell it. They 180 00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:35,760 Robbie Ferguson: can have guaranteed scarcity. So you could say, " This Fortnite 181 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,580 Robbie Ferguson: skin is only one of 10, 000 to ever exist." And 182 00:09:38,580 --> 00:09:41,650 Robbie Ferguson: that's really radical in a digital context. We've literally never 183 00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:43,929 Robbie Ferguson: been able to do that before. And the final thing, and 184 00:09:43,929 --> 00:09:46,590 Robbie Ferguson: probably my favourite thing is for the first time ever, 185 00:09:47,059 --> 00:09:50,240 Robbie Ferguson: we can have digital provenance. And the example I give 186 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,130 Robbie Ferguson: here is the gloves Muhammad Ali to use to knock 187 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:56,100 Robbie Ferguson: out George Foreman in the Rumble of the Jungle are 188 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:58,849 Robbie Ferguson: worth far more than any other make and kind of 189 00:09:58,850 --> 00:10:01,490 Robbie Ferguson: that glove from that year. And the reasons are you 190 00:10:01,490 --> 00:10:03,850 Robbie Ferguson: can prove that he wore these gloves to knock out 191 00:10:03,850 --> 00:10:06,470 Robbie Ferguson: George Foreman. And for the first time ever, we can 192 00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:10,670 Robbie Ferguson: now apply that context and providence to digital assets. So 193 00:10:10,670 --> 00:10:15,300 Robbie Ferguson: you could take the skin that Ninja, a famous streamer 194 00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:17,900 Robbie Ferguson: uses to win a tournament in Fortnite. And he could 195 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:20,780 Robbie Ferguson: auction that off in the moment and prove to everyone that, 196 00:10:20,780 --> 00:10:23,600 Robbie Ferguson: that digital asset was used by him to have that 197 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,040 Robbie Ferguson: particular experience, which is really, really cool. 198 00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:29,920 Sean Aylmer: In a sense it's just an evolution really of what happens in the physical 199 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,350 Sean Aylmer: world, because it is a digital world now. And anyone 200 00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:35,630 Sean Aylmer: under the age of 40 is far more digital than 201 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,809 Sean Aylmer: physical in many ways. And just how they consume things, 202 00:10:38,809 --> 00:10:41,880 Sean Aylmer: how they live their lives, how they entertain themselves. So 203 00:10:42,010 --> 00:10:44,620 Sean Aylmer: it's really just an evolution from physical to digital and 204 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:45,870 Sean Aylmer: owning that sorts of assets. 205 00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:49,130 Robbie Ferguson: That's exactly it. At Immutable our mission statement is to 206 00:10:49,130 --> 00:10:53,610 Robbie Ferguson: make digital worlds real. And the reason is we think 207 00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:56,959 Robbie Ferguson: that people will self- actualise and live their lives in 208 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,809 Robbie Ferguson: digital universes in the future. People will spend a huge 209 00:10:59,809 --> 00:11:02,189 Robbie Ferguson: ton of time in virtual reality and gaming. We're already 210 00:11:02,190 --> 00:11:05,320 Robbie Ferguson: seeing it. And it's important that those people have property 211 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,360 Robbie Ferguson: rights that are just as strong as in the real world. 212 00:11:08,809 --> 00:11:10,870 Sean Aylmer: So you've raised $ 82 million. What are you going to 213 00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:12,870 Sean Aylmer: do with the money? What's the plan for Immutable? 214 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,940 Robbie Ferguson: Yeah. The vast majority of it will be spent on hiring some people, to 215 00:11:16,940 --> 00:11:20,929 Robbie Ferguson: be honest. So we're doing a global expansion through a 216 00:11:20,929 --> 00:11:24,250 Robbie Ferguson: few main ways. Obviously we have our internal content, God's 217 00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:27,179 Robbie Ferguson: Unchained and Guild of Guardians, which we're really excited about. And 218 00:11:27,179 --> 00:11:30,210 Robbie Ferguson: we'll be bolstering those teams to help take them mainstream 219 00:11:30,270 --> 00:11:33,520 Robbie Ferguson: and hit millions of users. And we also have our 220 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,240 Robbie Ferguson: protocol, so Immutable X, which is our scaling infrastructure. And we'll 221 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,670 Robbie Ferguson: be building a engineering team that's significantly larger than the 222 00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:43,570 Robbie Ferguson: one we have today. And we'll also be building a 223 00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:47,670 Robbie Ferguson: global go to market team. So business development, success, integration. 224 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,280 Sean Aylmer: So it's about gaming it's also about becoming a marketplace 225 00:11:52,460 --> 00:11:53,120 Sean Aylmer: to some extent. 226 00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:57,349 Robbie Ferguson: Yeah. We call ourselves a exchange protocol because we're actually 227 00:11:57,350 --> 00:12:01,300 Robbie Ferguson: the protocol that powers marketplaces. So we don't care about 228 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:03,710 Robbie Ferguson: people coming to our website. What we're doing is allowing 229 00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:07,059 Robbie Ferguson: anyone to build a business based on NFTs. Whether you're 230 00:12:07,059 --> 00:12:09,030 Robbie Ferguson: a gamer and you just want to credit inside your 231 00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:11,809 Robbie Ferguson: game and allow people to trade them there. Whether it's our 232 00:12:11,809 --> 00:12:15,080 Robbie Ferguson: upcoming integration with OpenSea, which is the largest NFT marketplace, 233 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,710 Robbie Ferguson: which means anyone will be able to trade an asset 234 00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:21,220 Robbie Ferguson: on Immutable X via OpenSea. Our goal is to be this 235 00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:24,900 Robbie Ferguson: global liquidity and scaling layer behind these digital assets. 236 00:12:24,970 --> 00:12:27,100 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, it's a facilitator as much as anything else. 237 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:27,809 Robbie Ferguson: Exactly. 238 00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:31,110 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So you're doing some very cutting edge things. How 239 00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:33,630 Sean Aylmer: does Australia generally stack up against the rest of the 240 00:12:33,630 --> 00:12:35,210 Sean Aylmer: world in this area? 241 00:12:35,809 --> 00:12:38,120 Robbie Ferguson: Yeah, look, I actually think Australia has been punching above 242 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,480 Robbie Ferguson: its weight in terms of crypto. So we have some 243 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,070 Robbie Ferguson: really cool homegrown startups here. There's Kane who founded Synthetics, 244 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:49,640 Robbie Ferguson: which is now a decentralised organization that he's referred to 245 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,630 Robbie Ferguson: as the father of DeFi farming. So he really basically popularised 246 00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:58,350 Robbie Ferguson: this idea of staking and farming and DeFi protocols, which 247 00:12:58,350 --> 00:13:01,990 Robbie Ferguson: is the ability to bootstrap the growth of a DeFi 248 00:13:02,260 --> 00:13:06,640 Robbie Ferguson: application by incentivising users, with tokens, for being early participants 249 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,980 Robbie Ferguson: or risk takers in that protocol. So, that's been really cool. 250 00:13:09,980 --> 00:13:12,880 Robbie Ferguson: And then where we're actually seeing a bunch of other startups get 251 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,490 Robbie Ferguson: funding literally even today, whether they're building on different blockchains. 252 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:19,860 Robbie Ferguson: So I think Australia is a 100% punching above its weight. 253 00:13:19,970 --> 00:13:23,640 Robbie Ferguson: And with the popularisation of NFTs, we're seeing a huge 254 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,070 Robbie Ferguson: influx of demand to Immutable. Whether it's people wanting to 255 00:13:27,420 --> 00:13:30,859 Robbie Ferguson: come and work in the blockchain industry or specifically on NFTs because of the 256 00:13:30,860 --> 00:13:33,570 Robbie Ferguson: applications they see to entertainment. It's been really awesome. 257 00:13:33,780 --> 00:13:35,230 Sean Aylmer: Robbie this has been one of the best lessons I've 258 00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:38,410 Sean Aylmer: had in months, possibly years. I have learned so much. 259 00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:41,640 Robbie Ferguson: Well, I'm glad to help Sean. It's exciting stuff. 260 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:43,380 Sean Aylmer: Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 261 00:13:43,650 --> 00:13:43,829 Robbie Ferguson: Thank you. 262 00:13:44,510 --> 00:13:47,780 Sean Aylmer: That was Robbie Ferguson, co- founder of Immutable. This is 263 00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:50,030 Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join me every morning for 264 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:52,590 Sean Aylmer: the full Fear and Greed podcast with all the business 265 00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:55,530 Sean Aylmer: news you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.