Speaker 1: I get a team. It's Tommy Jacket. Tommy Jacket's back,
Speaker 1: Bloody Tommy Jacket. Bloody Tommy Jacket. Film producer, megastar, podcaster,
Speaker 1: family man, creative journius, one of Australia's best. I would
Speaker 1: suggest and I reckon. I reckon in the big deal stakes.
Speaker 1: I've slightly got him covered for about another week that
Speaker 1: he's going to explode. He's going to explode the what's
Speaker 1: the timing on the explosion, Tom.
Speaker 2: Don't sure, but if you keep talking like this, mate,
Speaker 2: it's going to be it's going to be a big explosion.
Speaker 2: That sounds horrible, but it didn't mean it like that.
Speaker 2: But I really appreciate every time I come on here.
Speaker 2: It's like I reckon, I could track my self worth,
Speaker 2: which is saying something, but it's when I come on
Speaker 2: this podcast I feel the best about myself. But it's
Speaker 2: because how generous you are with your words, whether they're
Speaker 2: bullshit or not. Mate, it's Kevin Cumming.
Speaker 1: Actually mean every word. Well, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of what you're going to do, be, create
Speaker 1: and become I don't know exactly, but I would be
Speaker 1: very surprised if yeah, and not that you're doing it
Speaker 1: for that, but that you weren't a well known doco
Speaker 1: producer or movie producer or film producer or well known creator.
Speaker 1: You're already moderately well known and you're doing some great stuff.
Speaker 1: But since I met you almost twenty years ago or something,
Speaker 1: when you were just a fucking lost, freestyling juvenile who
Speaker 1: had nine pubes and came on one of my I
Speaker 1: don't know how old were you when you came on
Speaker 1: that first retreaty campy thing, Iran.
Speaker 2: I would have been, yeah, nineteen or something like that.
Speaker 2: But I will tell you, Craig, I know I find
Speaker 2: it hard to accept compliments. I've been told that before.
Speaker 2: But can we just say talk about Oscar Piastre. You
Speaker 2: know who is.
Speaker 1: Of course, you just won overnight. His Australia's well is
Speaker 1: the number one while he's leading the Formula One Driver's
Speaker 1: Championship at the moment. Ozzie Ripper like I think about.
Speaker 2: Him as a twenty what is he twenty one or
Speaker 2: twenty two?
Speaker 1: When you hear that, kids, my shoes are older than him.
Speaker 2: Tom, your cargo pants have doubled his age, I'd say
Speaker 2: it's but don't you isn't it unbelievable. Like I think
Speaker 2: about myself as a kid that age, and I barely
Speaker 2: had my shit together. I didn't have anything to I
Speaker 2: didn't have any shit, I didn't have anything together. But
Speaker 2: it's some humans just he's so gifted, you know, one
Speaker 2: thing for his skill as a driver, but also just
Speaker 2: as a level headed twenty year old. It's phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Well think about you're exactly right. So obviously there's the athletic,
Speaker 1: you know, the physiological kind of ability to be able
Speaker 1: to do you know, have those driving skills, reaction time judgments,
Speaker 1: and they're not top of that. How courageous do you
Speaker 1: have to be? How brave do you have to be
Speaker 1: to be driving a car at th round and twenty
Speaker 1: kilometers an hour with maniacs around you? And then on
Speaker 1: top of that, how calm do you have to be
Speaker 1: in the middle of anything or something that everybody else
Speaker 1: would be terrified in. Yeah, like you've got to regulate
Speaker 1: your heartbeat, be calm, be focused, not get overwhelmed by
Speaker 1: you know, adrenaline and cortisole and all the fear hormones.
Speaker 2: Ah, then the pressure when you're actually becoming a champion,
Speaker 2: the difference you see Norris, his teammate at a rippy
Speaker 2: year last year, and then the pressure was pretty heavy
Speaker 2: on him to follow it up, and you can see
Speaker 2: he sort of he gets restless under this pressure. But
Speaker 2: I guess what we're talking about is someone with real talent,
Speaker 2: and it's something I don't have, Craig, as much as
Speaker 2: you like to say, sort of read me out, but
Speaker 2: I really see it. Like my friction in my early
Speaker 2: years of my career was so great where I just
Speaker 2: felt so inadequate in the thing I'm doing, or it's
Speaker 2: why I end up at a Craig Harper workshop at nineteen,
Speaker 2: just just trying to look for praise, and here we
Speaker 2: are fifteen plus years later. Just I mean, that was
Speaker 2: a great investment, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Well? I think you did. I mean you were great.
Speaker 1: I was because everybody probably the average age was thirty
Speaker 1: to forty, maybe even thirty five to forty.
Speaker 2: Everyone felt old, Craig, even though I'm that age now and.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I don't feel well and you didn't come.
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, you came along with your your
Speaker 1: older brother or a mate, or you came by yourself.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, this kid's either weird or special
Speaker 1: or special. It turns out you're weird, but yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 1: Are you a bit special? Yeah? But being able to
Speaker 1: I think figure out, you know, part of the challenge
Speaker 1: for people is figuring out what they want to do.
Speaker 1: Like if you know at nineteen twenty, twenty one, twenty
Speaker 1: two that you want to be a creative, you want
Speaker 1: to produce films, you want to create content for this
Speaker 1: rapidly evolving thing called social media, but also maybe you know,
Speaker 1: make some bigger and better things for television for want
Speaker 1: of a better term, for all the platforms that operate
Speaker 1: through television. But you kind of knew that at a
Speaker 1: young age, right, And I think like Oscar Piastres, same thing.
Speaker 1: He probably knew when he was eight that he wanted
Speaker 1: to be a world champion in Formula one. Whether or
Speaker 1: not you'd ever get there, but he probably wanted that.
Speaker 1: But I reckon the truth is that there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people that are forty who don't know what
Speaker 1: they want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think so from some insight from people
Speaker 2: that know Oscar because he's a Melbourne kid, I've been
Speaker 2: told that he believes he's the best driver there is,
Speaker 2: which I guess it makes total sense. You need that
Speaker 2: belief in yourself, and maybe we're seeing him at a
Speaker 2: time so there's no comparison between me and that kid
Speaker 2: because he's exceptionally talented. But I think about myself at
Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen coming to something like you your workshop. I
Speaker 2: kind of knew where I wanted to go, but I
Speaker 2: really had zero skills and zero life experience. And the
Speaker 2: frustration in me for so long around not having the
Speaker 2: actual skill set to where my belief or you know,
Speaker 2: the vision of where I wanted to go was never aligned.
Speaker 2: And that's such a painful position. And maybe someone like
Speaker 2: Oscar you that kid's been driving since he was could
Speaker 2: walk right, little cars, little go karts or whatever, and
Speaker 2: so there's been so much time where he's built the
Speaker 2: skill and when he's on the world stage and he's
Speaker 2: only twenty, he's hardly you know, lived any life. It's
Speaker 2: really out of school. You're like four years out of
Speaker 2: school or whatever. Yeah, and so we think, oh, yes,
Speaker 2: he's had zero life, but he's actually been grinding for
Speaker 2: over ten twelve years in doing whatever he needs to
Speaker 2: do to build the skill set. So you're seeing this
Speaker 2: sort of synergy of skill and the desire or you know,
Speaker 2: his dreams sort of coming into play, which I yeah,
Speaker 2: I find frustrating seeing it mate, you know, just where
Speaker 2: I could have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but so you said a couple of things there
Speaker 1: I wrote him down. You said, you know you didn't
Speaker 1: have you didn't have the skill, you didn't have the experience,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Well, you can only get skill and
Speaker 1: experience over time, and skill and experience are not something
Speaker 1: that anyone in the world is born with, right, So
Speaker 1: you might be born with talent and creative potential and
Speaker 1: maybe it and disposition to be good at things like
Speaker 1: run fast, jump high, solve math problems, invent shit, you know,
Speaker 1: fight whatever, write stories, be an academic. I mean, everybody's
Speaker 1: born with I think different predispositions to be better and
Speaker 1: worse at things. But what you've done since that that
Speaker 1: weekend away that we had is you have got vast knowledge,
Speaker 1: and you have developed skill, and you do have runs
Speaker 1: on the border. Now you've got vast experience, and you're
Speaker 1: going to have more and get more. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's like there's probably another Oscar Pastre somewhere in the
Speaker 1: world with the same level of talent who never even
Speaker 1: got near a go kart.
Speaker 2: You near a goat, but never a go cut.
Speaker 1: Like I used to think, what if Roger Federer grew
Speaker 1: up next door to me in La tro Valley and
Speaker 1: never picked up a tennis racket.
Speaker 2: I reckon he would be the best division a horn
Speaker 2: bowl guy in the valley where you know.
Speaker 1: The greater, morewel area.
Speaker 2: The well if you think about so, I felt so
Speaker 2: like most of that earlier time for me was like
Speaker 2: nervous about things, like everything was the first time, or
Speaker 2: you know, like there's so many areas that you're pushing yourself,
Speaker 2: you know, when when you're trying to build a skill set.
Speaker 2: I felt, yes, so many times I felt nervous, and
Speaker 2: so that in my head connecting that nerves and pressure
Speaker 2: with some kind of growth and change within myself, whether
Speaker 2: it's my skill set, my just understanding of life, life experience.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because later in as I've grown up,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm more searching for peace and less
Speaker 2: of that pressure. But can you you know, do you
Speaker 2: think growth comes from peace rather than pressure or does
Speaker 2: it have to come from pressure.
Speaker 1: I think I think it can come in both. Like
Speaker 1: I think where we build resilience, and you know, a
Speaker 1: level of awareness and a kind of psychological emotional strength
Speaker 1: is in the middle of the shitfest, right. But I
Speaker 1: also think, you know, like I've grown and learn and evolved. Say,
Speaker 1: if we talk about the skill of podcasting, where even
Speaker 1: when I was making no dough and even when the
Speaker 1: podcast wasn't you know, like world class, and some of
Speaker 1: the guests were a bit dodgy, and I was a
Speaker 1: bit dodgy, and I didn't hate it though, It's like
Speaker 1: I didn't go to bed going oh fuck, this is terrible.
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed. I'm humiliated. I'm like, I just knew that
Speaker 1: I wasn't great, but I thought that I could get
Speaker 1: in the ballpark of great if I just did the work,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm still not there, But I'm better
Speaker 1: than I was. I know more. I understand more about
Speaker 1: the science of podcasting and interviewing and building rapport and
Speaker 1: connection and talking to an audience that I can't see.
Speaker 1: But I can only do that by getting miles on
Speaker 1: the clock, you know. And I think that's the same
Speaker 1: I think we have. You know, there are people who
Speaker 1: are brilliantly gifted. They take up something and six months
Speaker 1: later they're fucking amazing at it. But that's not me,
Speaker 1: you know. So I think the average person is closer
Speaker 1: to me than Oscar, And I think the average person
Speaker 1: just needs to get the miles in and just go, yeah, look,
Speaker 1: some of it's going to suck. But also there will
Speaker 1: be lots of times where you're learning and growing and
Speaker 1: evolving in the middle of the fun stuff and the
Speaker 1: joy and the winds, you know, so it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be But also I think you know this old
Speaker 1: chestnut again, Tom, But it ain't about the top of
Speaker 1: the hill. It's about the climb, because who gets to
Speaker 1: the top of the hill and goes right, I'm satisfied.
Speaker 1: I don't need any anything else. I'm done. I'm at
Speaker 1: the top of the hill or the mountain, whatever metaphor
Speaker 1: we're using today. I'm up here. It's all good, right,
Speaker 1: I'm done. Bibbity bobby boo. That's me. Put the que
Speaker 1: in the rack. Because on top of the mountain you're
Speaker 1: just fucking looking around, maybe or maybe soaking in the view,
Speaker 1: which is great. But climbing the mountain you're actually becoming.
Speaker 1: You know, you're learning, you're evolving, you're building understanding, and
Speaker 1: awareness and physical strength and emotional strength, and you're meeting
Speaker 1: other people on the climb, and you're solving problems on
Speaker 1: the climb. And it's in the climb, the metaphoric climb,
Speaker 1: where all the good shit happens. I don't think much
Speaker 1: happens at the destination. You know, Jeff Joward always goes,
Speaker 1: it's all about the process. It's about the process.
Speaker 2: Tom Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting to listen to. But
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't feel like that when you lost
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars and you're bankrupt, Like Jeff, it's
Speaker 2: an amazing perspective because I don't have that. I don't
Speaker 2: talk like that, but but I understand the journey and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. But I think, I I think you
Speaker 2: get so attuned to sort of feeling discomfort when you
Speaker 2: are on that journey that then you can think that
Speaker 2: you're not going to get anywhere when it's feeling pretty peaceful.
Speaker 2: And like, I think it's a product of having kids.
Speaker 2: And just like I don't like it's a hard enough
Speaker 2: job as it is. Making money is hard enough as
Speaker 2: it is in life, you know, showing up and being
Speaker 2: a good person all of that, and so you think,
Speaker 2: you know, I think, like, when was the last time
Speaker 2: you felt nervous about something you had to do in
Speaker 2: your life?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well pretty regularly with my PAHD to be
Speaker 1: honest outside, Yeah yeah, yeah, because I'm always having meetings with,
Speaker 1: you know, in that world, even though I'm five and
Speaker 1: a half years in with the people who are my supervisors,
Speaker 1: and you know, they're still so far ahead of me,
Speaker 1: you know, from a purely understanding research and academia and
Speaker 1: all the high level stuff that needs to be just
Speaker 1: part of what you're doing. You know, Like, obviously I've
Speaker 1: bridged the gap, but I still i'm you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm the dumbest in the room, and in
Speaker 1: some ways I am the dumbest in the room. In
Speaker 1: other ways, I might even be the smartest in the room,
Speaker 1: depending on what we're using to measure intelligence by, you know,
Speaker 1: the metric. But yeah, but I don't look and I
Speaker 1: definitely don't. I'm not I never advocate. Oh, it's all
Speaker 1: about grinding and hustling and climbing the mountain and every
Speaker 1: day it's got to be another version of discomfort. I
Speaker 1: don't agree with that at all. I think there should
Speaker 1: be fun. I think there. I wrote a post recently.
Speaker 1: I think it was called fuck all Days. Days where
Speaker 1: you do fuck all and you happily do fuck all
Speaker 1: and you're not productive and you're not solving problems, and
Speaker 1: you're not eating perfectly and you're not run and ten
Speaker 1: k's and you're being completely you fucking unproductive and lazy
Speaker 1: and it's amazing and you should do that. It might
Speaker 1: even be a fuck all weekend or a fuck all
Speaker 1: week you know. It's like this obsession that self help
Speaker 1: and personal development in various spaces has, with this perpetual
Speaker 1: quest for better and bigger and more. I think that's
Speaker 1: bullshit and it's unattainable and it's unhealthy. But I think
Speaker 1: many people wake up at a point on their journey
Speaker 1: where they go, oh, and now I'm forty five and
Speaker 1: I've been doing a job I don't really like for
Speaker 1: fifteen years. There's that's the stuff I think we need
Speaker 1: to address. It's like, all right, Brian, well, you know
Speaker 1: when you're forty six, twelve months from now, you know,
Speaker 1: what would you like to be different? Let's just let's
Speaker 1: not think about the how, Let's just think about the what.
Speaker 1: What would you like to be different? And maybe the why,
Speaker 1: and then let's get clarity around that, and let's reverse
Speaker 1: engineer it and figure out what we need to do
Speaker 1: now and decision and action and plan and protocol and
Speaker 1: accountability so that a year from now you're not still
Speaker 1: in the groundhog day. That's now sixteen years of a
Speaker 1: job you don't love, borderline hate. So I think that
Speaker 1: ambition and goal setting and growth and improvement can coexist
Speaker 1: with fuck all days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think you're ambitious?
Speaker 1: Not particularly, Yeah, I'm I don't think I'm unambitious, but
Speaker 1: like I to me, I, well, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever been asked that I'm going
Speaker 1: to change my answer. I reckon I am a bit,
Speaker 1: but I'm not. I'm not one of those driven you know,
Speaker 1: win at all costs, and if I don't do this,
Speaker 1: then I'm a failure. I don't. But there are things
Speaker 1: that I want to do and part of I like
Speaker 1: not for the sake of it, and I don't even
Speaker 1: care if no he knows, But I like being I
Speaker 1: like doing things that at my age you shouldn't you know,
Speaker 1: or you're typically not doing. Like I like being fitter
Speaker 1: and stronger than blokes thirty years younger than me, not
Speaker 1: in any way specific to them. But I like being
Speaker 1: fit and strong and healthy. I like my brain working well.
Speaker 1: I like still being productive and creative. I like learning
Speaker 1: new things and unlearning old things which are disempowering. I
Speaker 1: like serving people. I like helping people. I like having
Speaker 1: high energy in you know, the average person my age.
Speaker 1: Not all of them, but a lot of them. It's
Speaker 1: like fucking hell, get out of the chair. Cham you know.
Speaker 1: So I guess in that way, in terms of getting
Speaker 1: the most out of me, I'm ambitious, yeah, But in
Speaker 1: terms of making a trillion bucks.
Speaker 2: Nut, well yeah. I think it can definitely shift in
Speaker 2: its own meaning for yourself. So how I felt ambitious
Speaker 2: about where I wanted to go earlier is very different
Speaker 2: to now. I feel very I don't feel ambitious now,
Speaker 2: which is yeah, I don't know. It's a weird thing.
Speaker 2: Do you think you need to sort of hold ambition
Speaker 2: as a value close to you to to progress, to
Speaker 2: grow in your career or yourself.
Speaker 1: Look, I think when we talk about ambition generally, I've
Speaker 1: done no research on this, So this is just my feeling.
Speaker 1: Everyone take it with a grain of salt to me,
Speaker 1: it seems like when we talk about ambition, generally we're
Speaker 1: talking about business or career or money, all three. Why
Speaker 1: can't you be ambitious about being spiritually enlightened? In other words, like,
Speaker 1: it's an ambition, it's a hope, it's a why can't
Speaker 1: you Why can't one of your you know, why can't
Speaker 1: you be ambitious around building a a not for profit
Speaker 1: where you're serving a community and working with people that
Speaker 1: really really need love and attention. And so I think
Speaker 1: in that sense, like if money wasn't an issue, I
Speaker 1: would hold events every weekend in Melbourne or wherever I was,
Speaker 1: if it wasn't an issue, and I would charge zero
Speaker 1: dollars and I would get as many people in the
Speaker 1: door as I could. It would essentially be church without
Speaker 1: the God bit, you know what I mean. Maybe there'd
Speaker 1: be a bit of God sometimes I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, but you might show up every now and then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And no, I'm not talking about a cult. I
Speaker 1: don't want money, I don't want people, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want anything inappropriate. But you know in that you know,
Speaker 1: like even you think about this, So why do this around?
Speaker 1: In sixty five days of the year, we're heading towards
Speaker 1: two thousand episodes. Some episodes are shit, some episodes are alright,
Speaker 1: some are good. Some conversations for some people have told
Speaker 1: me they've been life changing. For other people, they're annoying.
Speaker 1: I get it. But what I do love about this is,
Speaker 1: you know, there are months disclosure on. There are months
Speaker 1: on the podcast because we're on the Nova platform where
Speaker 1: I make pretty good money through this, not mind blowing,
Speaker 1: but pretty good money. And there are other months where
Speaker 1: literally I break even because by the time I, you know,
Speaker 1: pay TIF pay whatever, you know, there's stuff to do.
Speaker 1: But I would do thirty podcasts and me personally make
Speaker 1: not one cent, and I'm happy. I don't care because,
Speaker 1: like if my goal, if I was doing this to
Speaker 1: get rich, I would have stopped a long time ago.
Speaker 1: But because I'm fortunate that I have other things that
Speaker 1: I do and other skills and other doors that are
Speaker 1: open for me. And also my life, my reality is
Speaker 1: very cheap, like I don't have seven kids, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have My life is not an expensive life,
Speaker 1: so I don't need to earn a lot of dough So.
Speaker 2: Well, you made all your money through bitcoin in the
Speaker 2: early days, didn't you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. Yeah, porn. Har I created pornhah yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I thought you were only fans go but nah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look I've got tam percent of that. You know. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: that's all bullshit. H yeah. But I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think I've said this too many times and people are
Speaker 1: going to roll their eyes. But I'm saying it to
Speaker 1: you like I think you know this. It's like I
Speaker 1: love having a purpose bigger than me, where you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just genuinely being of value and service to someone
Speaker 1: else and not because oh there's a kickback or there's
Speaker 1: a percentage or there's a you know, there's I'm just
Speaker 1: and by the way, I'm often not that. Sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: a fuckhead, but as much as possible, I try to
Speaker 1: be the to the people that I can, which is
Speaker 1: not everybody. But let me help you, and I don't
Speaker 1: need anything back, but just succeed and be great or
Speaker 1: do your best and be cheering you on. Because do
Speaker 1: you know where this came from? I remember when I
Speaker 1: was a fat little kid getting the bus from more
Speaker 1: Well to Taralgon, which was a half hour sorry MOEI
Speaker 1: to Tarragon, which was a half hour drive each way.
Speaker 1: And I remember being doesn't matter, but I remember being
Speaker 1: picked on quite significantly as the year seven fat kid.
Speaker 1: And I had this thought in my mind, Fuck this,
Speaker 1: it's like when I'm a big kid, like when I'm
Speaker 1: in year twelve, I'm going to look after the kids
Speaker 1: like me. And eventually I became the big kid, right,
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what I did. I went fuck all
Speaker 1: the year ten bullies that pick on the year sevens
Speaker 1: and eights. So I prioritized all the little kids over all,
Speaker 1: the kind of fifteen sixteen year olds. I didn't bully anyone,
Speaker 1: but I just protected them. And I've always had a
Speaker 1: little bit of that in me, where I want to,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to help people to help themselves,
Speaker 1: but for the people who in some scenarios can't help
Speaker 1: themselves at that moment or that chapter of their story,
Speaker 1: you know, if I can to help them or protect
Speaker 1: them or be of service, I love doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean most kids are just thinking about themselves,
Speaker 2: so that's a bit rare thinking about how you want
Speaker 2: to make other people feel.
Speaker 1: I had a plan. I had a plan when I
Speaker 1: was young. I was thinking about though, you know, we're
Speaker 1: talking about Oscar Piastri and all of these talented people.
Speaker 1: I've thought a lot about this over the years because
Speaker 1: I've worked with elite sporting teams and athletes and olympians
Speaker 1: and all that shit. And what's the cost of being
Speaker 1: the eight year old who decides he wants to become
Speaker 1: the world champion, right, and then he spends basically his
Speaker 1: entire life. And also most people fail, by the way.
Speaker 1: Most people don't become Oscar Piastre, you know, like and
Speaker 1: the AFL players and the you know, the elite netballers
Speaker 1: or you know, anyone. Probably not so much with the
Speaker 1: netballers because they don't get paid the same dough and
Speaker 1: they most of them do have another job. But like,
Speaker 1: even in the AFL, I've watched, I've worked with, you know,
Speaker 1: kids that have come in at eighteen and they think
Speaker 1: they're going to be the next big thing, and by
Speaker 1: the time they're twenty two, they weren't the next big thing.
Speaker 1: They had seven games in four years, and then they
Speaker 1: get delisted and they've you know, they've spent since they
Speaker 1: were seven years old dreaming about becoming this AFL player,
Speaker 1: they become it, they end up being not the success
Speaker 1: story they hoped they would be, but they're ill equipped
Speaker 1: for anything other than footy because all they've done is
Speaker 1: think footy, play footy, trained footy, think about the draft,
Speaker 1: get drafted, and then go into this system where it's
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven football. And then on a Tuesday
Speaker 1: night someone asks you in to an office and you
Speaker 1: get told sorry, mate, we don't need you. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: get your shit on the way out. And it's obviously
Speaker 1: it's a bit more than that, but it's not a
Speaker 1: lot more than that. And the amount of people who
Speaker 1: are elite athletes who after their career fall into a
Speaker 1: level of depression, the percentage is very high because they
Speaker 1: get their entire identity through I am, not like, this
Speaker 1: is who I am and that's my job. No, my
Speaker 1: job is who I am. It's my identity, it's my brand.
Speaker 1: It's what makes me popular, it's what gives me attention.
Speaker 1: It's why they chased me in the first place, it's
Speaker 1: why I get all this money. And then that gets
Speaker 1: ripped away from you. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of surviving and thriving beyond elite sport. That's that's
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation as well.
Speaker 2: Well. It's you see how life is hard as it is.
Speaker 2: Throw on all of those, yeah, external pressures and then
Speaker 2: even the internal pressure on yourself. Yep, yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: it's quite Yeah.
Speaker 1: Think about how many AFL footballers who have probably kicked
Speaker 1: a ball I don't know, one hundred thousand times in
Speaker 1: their life, at least tens and tens of thousands of times.
Speaker 1: How many AFL players Last weekend I saw a guy
Speaker 1: I can't remember fifteen meters out. So here's the guy.
Speaker 1: He's fifteen meters in front of goal right now, if
Speaker 1: you were standing thirty meters away, H'd kick it to
Speaker 1: you and hit you on the chest, right, Yeah, H'd
Speaker 1: kick it to you, hit you on the chest. Now,
Speaker 1: he's fifteen meters away from a goal square which is
Speaker 1: I think six meters wide, and he can't even hit that. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not lack of skill, that's nerves, that's anxiety. That's
Speaker 1: fucking I can't perform under pressure.
Speaker 2: Are you talking about the Melbourne Football Club? Because that's
Speaker 2: who I go for and they cannot kick. So I
Speaker 2: think you were you watching.
Speaker 1: It would have been I didn't. I didn't watch any
Speaker 1: of the games, but I just saw a grab on
Speaker 1: the news where there was like a dude, like you
Speaker 1: know I mean, and no, no, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: throw any shade. And because I'm not saying he's not
Speaker 1: talented or brilliant or skilled, I'm not saying that that
Speaker 1: at all. What I'm saying is from a psychology point
Speaker 1: of view. So you know, the dude who's doing a
Speaker 1: PhD in psychology and there is also an excise scientist.
Speaker 1: I'm mesmerized by professional footballers who can't hit a target
Speaker 1: straight in front of them that's six meters wide. Now
Speaker 1: that's that's that's all about what's going on in your head? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, this is why win he psychologists.
Speaker 2: I think I'll ask you this is a question. Do
Speaker 2: you think that these people who are uber talented or
Speaker 2: skilled and have that mindset that they're just trying to
Speaker 2: build themselves up to be number one, that the culture
Speaker 2: holds them up on a pedestal, holds them up as
Speaker 2: sort of these glorified figures, when in reality, most people
Speaker 2: I think would probably if they could understand what the
Speaker 2: future looks like, you know, the trajectory of these people,
Speaker 2: most people would probably agree that it's more not comfortable,
Speaker 2: but just someone who just lives a good life, as
Speaker 2: you know, is it seat of striving for that level
Speaker 2: of success would actually probably be a better route to go.
Speaker 2: But in culture, we see people you look at the
Speaker 2: Telly Itt doll driven by media, and oh, look at
Speaker 2: the metric of success that person has, because that's we
Speaker 2: have a feeling when we see those people, you think,
Speaker 2: oh god, that would be cool to be like that.
Speaker 1: One dred percent. I'm just this is this is bad
Speaker 1: to do on a podcast. But I'm just looking up
Speaker 1: now Bailey Smith, who you know who is at the
Speaker 1: Dogs and now he's at he of course is at
Speaker 1: jee Long Geelong. I'm just bringing him up. That's the
Speaker 1: wrong one. Wow, there we go. So he's got three
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy three thousand follows, right, I thought he'd
Speaker 1: have more. But anyway, you know, and I think about him.
Speaker 1: So he's good looking, he's jacked, he's young, he's talented.
Speaker 1: He seems to be quite charismatic, charming and likable. I'm
Speaker 1: sure some of the opposition fans fucking hate him right
Speaker 1: as fans do. Yeah, but I think it depends a
Speaker 1: little on the person and the personality and their DNA.
Speaker 1: It's like, put you or me in front of a
Speaker 1: room talking to a bunch of people, where excited you
Speaker 1: put another person up, they can't breathe, you know, they're terrified.
Speaker 1: Like for me, and obviously there's been a bit of
Speaker 1: training that's gone in there. But for me talking to
Speaker 1: a group of people, I feel like I'm in my
Speaker 1: natural habitat, doing my natural thing and I can regulate,
Speaker 1: manage my nerves and my nervous system and my breathing
Speaker 1: and my focus and my you know, my mind. I
Speaker 1: can do that really well in front of a thousand people,
Speaker 1: like no drama. But you know, some they are very
Speaker 1: some very talented, skilled athletes with great inherent natural ability
Speaker 1: who can't perform under pressure, not because their body is
Speaker 1: not good or not because their skill is not there,
Speaker 1: but because they just can't manage their mind, which in
Speaker 1: turn means they can't manage their nervous system, adrenaline, cortisol,
Speaker 1: you know. So they get themselves in their stress states,
Speaker 1: so they're ten out of ten, skill becomes a three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the how do you think? So there's people
Speaker 2: who grow up and they are on a bus and
Speaker 2: they're thinking, are this is sort of what I'm going
Speaker 2: to be doing this is my This becomes a bit
Speaker 2: of a why or you believe that you are the
Speaker 2: next sportsperson. So you enter into a life, it gives
Speaker 2: you the purpose for a lot of it. But the
Speaker 2: reality is that most people struggle with that sense of
Speaker 2: purpose and where to place it or how to even
Speaker 2: discover it. What do you think's missing for individuals that
Speaker 2: have that challenge?
Speaker 1: That's a great question. Purpose is a really interesting conversation because,
Speaker 1: and again I'm generalizing here, but this is my experience,
Speaker 1: is that a lot of people think, like when we
Speaker 1: talk about purpose, we kind of infer that humans have
Speaker 1: a purpose one I'm like, who said, who said? Who
Speaker 1: said that Craig Harper has one purpose? I think not
Speaker 1: only do we maybe have many purposes over the course
Speaker 1: of our lifetime. That what is you know, what was
Speaker 1: my purpose when I was twenty five might not be
Speaker 1: my purpose when I'm sixty, and I think that it
Speaker 1: can be. You know, when I'm with my mum and dad,
Speaker 1: my purpose is to be present, to love them, to
Speaker 1: look after them, to you know, I have a real
Speaker 1: clear purpose in terms of my role in the family.
Speaker 1: I have a real clear purpose in terms of with
Speaker 1: my friends, and with people who need who need me
Speaker 1: and support. I have another purpose in terms of my career.
Speaker 1: I have another purpose in terms of you know, health
Speaker 1: and wellness, like I think. I think having a body
Speaker 1: that for the most part works is a gift, and
Speaker 1: I think I have a responsibility to look after this gift.
Speaker 1: I mean, some people are born with a body that
Speaker 1: doesn't work properly. Some people, you know, get cancer when
Speaker 1: they're twenty. Some people are and I think, so there's
Speaker 1: all of that stuff, But I think a quick way
Speaker 1: to figure out what your purpose is, or to get
Speaker 1: closer towards understanding what your purpose might be, is to
Speaker 1: define your values and think about, well, what are what
Speaker 1: are my values? And my values are just the stuff
Speaker 1: that matters to me the most, and it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be something profound like people think, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: my values are serving humanity and you know, leaving the
Speaker 1: world a better It doesn't worry it. Maybe, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that. Maybe your purpose is to
Speaker 1: be a great dad the end, and what a fuck
Speaker 1: an awesome purpose, because there are so many shit dads
Speaker 1: and so many kids who have so many shit childhoods
Speaker 1: because of their violent, aggressive, unaware sociopathic, narcissistic, unloving father. Well,
Speaker 1: imagine if you were the opposite of that for your kids.
Speaker 1: And I know your purpose is bigger than just that,
Speaker 1: but I reckon for you, your purpose has got to
Speaker 1: be that's got to be near the top of the list. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, being an amazing parent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. And because I think it's quite easy,
Speaker 2: and I'm talking about myself here looking at other people's
Speaker 2: purposes and thinking fuck, that's awesome, like and then downplaying
Speaker 2: or not allowing myself to, you know, sit in a
Speaker 2: purpose that might be not as grandiose as some people
Speaker 2: out there, Like you're saying.
Speaker 1: I think the irony is that your purpose isn't about you.
Speaker 2: Who's it about?
Speaker 1: It's about others. My purpose is not to make my
Speaker 1: life great for me. Now that's not to say I
Speaker 1: don't want to look after my health or have fun
Speaker 1: or have great friendships. But I don't think my overwhelming
Speaker 1: reason to be on the earth. And who knows if
Speaker 1: it's predetermined or me determined, right, but let's just go
Speaker 1: with me determined and maybe a bit of pre who knows.
Speaker 1: I don't think my purpose is for me to be
Speaker 1: perpetually happy. I don't think that's my purpose. I think
Speaker 1: I'm going to be sad. I'm going to be lonely,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be disconnected. I'm going to suffer, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be in pain, and I'm going to have
Speaker 1: good days and there's going to be joy, and there's
Speaker 1: going to be love and kindness and connection, and there's
Speaker 1: going to be misery and there's going to be laughter.
Speaker 1: And that's it. That's the human experience. And I think
Speaker 1: in the middle of all of that, I want to
Speaker 1: be as well as a podcaster, I want to be
Speaker 1: as relatable and real so that people don't think this
Speaker 1: is some kind of thinly disguised fucking sales pitch for
Speaker 1: Craig's program or something. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It's like, no, don't come to my shit, come to
Speaker 1: my ship, don't come to my ship. Buy a book,
Speaker 1: don't buy a book, spend all the money, spend no money.
Speaker 1: It's like, I love you the same. It makes no
Speaker 1: difference to me commercially maybe, but in terms of me
Speaker 1: at just the human like I would. You know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't even occur to me when someone bumps into me
Speaker 1: and goes I listen to the show. I love it.
Speaker 1: They fully have my attention and appreciation for listening to
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, I don't go. Have you bought anything?
Speaker 1: You know? Have you been into a workshop? Have you
Speaker 1: come on a camp? Have you you know? Have you
Speaker 1: bought the online program? Have you have you heard my
Speaker 1: audio program? Have you read any of my books? I
Speaker 1: never It wouldn't even cross my mind to open that door,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't it's not that important to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean you see people doing that, and
Speaker 2: you know the feeling it gives you. And I think
Speaker 2: there's a lot online and I'm quite surprised. But maybe
Speaker 2: it's like I see through the veil a bit because
Speaker 2: I work in creating videos, podcast all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: It's like I can see the bullshit a bit more.
Speaker 2: You can see someone's intentions around something. But then again,
Speaker 2: some people that are like that are bringing great value.
Speaker 2: Of course, like Tony Robbins is probably a good example.
Speaker 2: He's beats the drama and I I roll at some
Speaker 2: of the ads he does. Now I still think, oh,
Speaker 2: you still banging on about getting a thousand people, three
Speaker 2: thousand people to one workshop. But he's bringing value and
Speaker 2: so you can have your life change by the big Man,
Speaker 2: either him or Jesus, whatever it is, you know, whatever
Speaker 2: floats your boat.
Speaker 1: Jesus are much more cost effective and.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, he won't make you walk on your cold.
Speaker 1: Church not so much. Well yeah, but also it's like,
Speaker 1: here's the thing with church, or with Tony Robins, or
Speaker 1: with anyone. It's like, well, you don't have to go,
Speaker 1: so if you don't like them, it don't go. It's
Speaker 1: like when people hate my podcast, I'm like, cool, no
Speaker 1: drama at all. Don't listen. There's the easiest solution ever
Speaker 1: is don't listen. And if you don't like me, why
Speaker 1: do you follow me? Why do you read all of
Speaker 1: my shit to tell me how fucking horrendous I am.
Speaker 1: Here's an idea, don't And it's okay. And by the way,
Speaker 1: you're probably right sometimes and yep, not the best human
Speaker 1: all the time, probably any of the time. I'm not
Speaker 1: the best human, but I'm you know, with all of
Speaker 1: that stuff, I get it. I go, Wow, what a
Speaker 1: way to invest your energy is to channel it towards
Speaker 1: this person that apparently you hate. But I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, back to two minutes ago, I don't think
Speaker 1: being of service and value and being empathetic and wanting
Speaker 1: to help the world, and all of those things needs
Speaker 1: to be exclusive to making a shitload of money in
Speaker 1: a career. Yeah, you know, it's like you you can
Speaker 1: go become the big deal movie producer and sell your
Speaker 1: docos for five million to Netflix or ten million or
Speaker 1: whatever you're going to do, and still be the awesome
Speaker 1: dad and still be the guy who goes to church
Speaker 1: on the weekend, and still be the great husband, and
Speaker 1: still still be the person that people love to hang
Speaker 1: out with because you're just you. I mean, you don't
Speaker 1: need to become anything. And they're like I think sometimes
Speaker 1: people think when I talk this way, I'm against commercialism
Speaker 1: and making bucks. And no, fuck no, make all the
Speaker 1: money you want. But one, don't bullshit people, right, And
Speaker 1: don't pretend you've got fucking answers when you don't have answers,
Speaker 1: And don't tell anyone that you're the missing piece to
Speaker 1: their jigsaw puzzle. All that shit I hate. But if
Speaker 1: you've got thoughts and ideas and strategies and philosophies and
Speaker 1: skills and a product and service that might be of
Speaker 1: service to people, knock yourself out. Yeah, you know, don't
Speaker 1: be disingenuous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you see, it really shines when you
Speaker 2: meet somebody who you know quite is successful and they
Speaker 2: might have a lot, you know, a few of those
Speaker 2: things aligned money, whatever, looks or whatever, and they're also
Speaker 2: just an awesome person and they seem so kind and
Speaker 2: there's no motivation behind them. And I'm not describing you
Speaker 2: because I'll be saying, really, you know, musty as well.
Speaker 2: They it's amazing. You're like, who is that enlightened being?
Speaker 2: Just like, she's so kind and she's also all those
Speaker 2: other things. It's very annoying. I mean it makes you
Speaker 2: feel like, wow, you can actually some people are you know,
Speaker 2: as you hear about people meeting a celebrity that's actually nice,
Speaker 2: it's like people are blown away by that because it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it comes with it.
Speaker 1: And think about the people that you really, really really admire.
Speaker 1: I think most of the time we don't admire their dough.
Speaker 1: We admire just what they're like, who they are, how
Speaker 1: they are with people. Yeah, hey, before we wind up, Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I've been mentioning Jesus a bit lately. Are you going
Speaker 1: to church? Is there anything that you want to hear
Speaker 1: just between you me and the listeners. Have you opened
Speaker 1: the the God? Have you just put your toe through
Speaker 1: the God door a little bit? Are you just peeking around?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Just a little christ curious.
Speaker 1: And because I know that your lovely wife Amy has
Speaker 1: got a churchy background. So were you guys just done
Speaker 1: it to know where? Or but are you sticking your
Speaker 1: nose in church every now and then or.
Speaker 2: Just having a little sniff in there, Craig to see
Speaker 2: what it's all about. It's funny, you know, like you
Speaker 2: think about you think about someone giving like a glowing
Speaker 2: recommendation for something, and how many times like I've recommended
Speaker 2: a podcast or this book or whatever, and the other
Speaker 2: person's just like, huh what, yeah, okay, yeah that sounds cool,
Speaker 2: Like there's slightly interested, but there's no alignment to sort
Speaker 2: of some feeling and I can't understand. I can't explain,
Speaker 2: And like it's pretty special to have some alignment with
Speaker 2: somebody who gives you some recommendation that it ali like
Speaker 2: that is exactly how you're feeling or thinking at the
Speaker 2: same time. And so but what I but where I
Speaker 2: bring this back to is just like if you have
Speaker 2: an interest in so church for whatever, most people you
Speaker 2: talk to will have no interest ever in going to that,
Speaker 2: but that's cool. Who gives a crap, It's up to them.
Speaker 2: And so when you find, like, for me, I feel
Speaker 2: interested in something that I have zero understanding of, that's
Speaker 2: you may as well just look into it. So that's
Speaker 2: a long way around saying yeah, looking into it.
Speaker 1: It's good. That's good mate, Well keeps up dated. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's I think just being whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: open minded. I'm not saying gullible, but being open minded
Speaker 1: and willing to learn and willing to open doors and
Speaker 1: have conversations and and expose yourself to different thoughts and
Speaker 1: ideas and people and culture and mind mind set and
Speaker 1: theology or philosophy or I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: a really important to the part of the human experience.
Speaker 2: And well, I read all your books and then I
Speaker 2: thought I need something a bit more juicy to look into.
Speaker 2: In the Bibles, interesting, the.
Speaker 1: Old Testament's a little heavy at time, so yeah, so
Speaker 1: steady on, but you know, and the last book of
Speaker 1: the New Testament Revelations a little cryptic.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but the final ones pull your finger out,
Speaker 2: isn't it. That's that's your book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the that's the post Bible. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I'm my goodness, Tom. How can people connect with you?
Speaker 1: And where do you live? What's your home address? And
Speaker 1: what's your what's your cell phone?
Speaker 2: As the Americans say, yeah, my numbers two, one, four, six.
Speaker 1: Three as five five five?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah five five five. No, you can just search
Speaker 2: the Instagram, YouTube, Tommy Jacket, or my business. Tell me
Speaker 2: at vidpod dot com. Did I use my email? Go
Speaker 2: old school? I mean that's old school. You can send
Speaker 2: me a letter. Actually, we will send it to your house.
Speaker 2: What's your address, Craig, It's.
Speaker 1: Number seventy four Jumbo Lane. Oh yeah, it's right on
Speaker 1: the front, Fatty Harps Jumbo Lane, number seven four, level three. Now,
Speaker 1: if people want to are you still working with companies
Speaker 1: that want videos produced? And like, are you taking on
Speaker 1: new people or are you just booked out?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty booked, but I'm always open through conversation. That's
Speaker 2: how most of it starts, all right.
Speaker 1: So if you've got heaps of cash and.
Speaker 2: If you want to make great videos or podcasts, let
Speaker 2: me know. I put it that way.
Speaker 1: Oh mate, appreciate
Speaker 2: You, thanks mate, love you, see ya, love yall