Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Shari.
Speaker 2: All good evening and welcome to the program. I'm James
Speaker 2: Macpherson filling in for Shari. Coming up tonight, outrage over
Speaker 2: a Muslim independence social media posts seemingly glorifying the October
Speaker 2: seven attacks, But will it be condemned by his rival
Speaker 2: Tony Burke. Liberal MP Julian Lisa will join me in
Speaker 2: the studio to discuss. Also tonight, Labor hesitates to reveal
Speaker 2: its new climate targets, as a major car company ditches
Speaker 2: its promise to go all electric. Of people finally starting
Speaker 2: to wake up. Plus, the BBC prepares to acts five
Speaker 2: hundred jobs in a major cost saving exercise, but they've
Speaker 2: got millions of dollars to spend on. You guessed it
Speaker 2: a diversity and inclusion. Push that story with my panel
Speaker 2: in just a moment. But first, Bill Shorten is leaving politics.
Speaker 2: If I was tasked with fixing the NDIS, I'd be
Speaker 2: leaving too. But it gives you you an idea just
Speaker 2: how bad this government is. That when Bill Shorten announces
Speaker 2: his resignation, well everyone is sad. Not sad because Shorton
Speaker 2: is going, but sad because Bowen isn't nor Charmers, nor Giles,
Speaker 2: nor Plebasec, nor Burke, nor wong Am I forgetting anyone.
Speaker 2: You've probably come up with six names already. Shorten's resignation
Speaker 2: comes just two weeks after he said he would absolutely
Speaker 2: contest the next election.
Speaker 3: You got the federal election, presumably early next year, you're recontesting.
Speaker 4: It's my aim to keep fighting as long as I
Speaker 4: can on the causes which.
Speaker 1: You'll want to every mean's running again.
Speaker 2: Sure at this stage, absolutely absolutely contesting the next election.
Speaker 2: Two weeks later, absolutely not. And we're absolutely stupid if
Speaker 2: we believe anything these people say. Mister Shorton's achievements include
Speaker 2: helping to topple Kevin Rudd, helping to topple Julia Gillard,
Speaker 2: and helping to topple the National Accounts, by which I
Speaker 2: mean helping to create the NDIS. As one of the
Speaker 2: architects of the NDIS, mister Shorton told us the scheme
Speaker 2: would cost around thirteen billion dollars a year and be
Speaker 2: fully funded. It now costs forty two billion dollars a year,
Speaker 2: and the cost is growing by twenty percent annually. I
Speaker 2: wish my superannuation had that kind of growth. Having created
Speaker 2: the NDIS, behemoth. Shorten was tasked with fixing it, and
Speaker 2: having failed to fix it, Shorten is now moving on
Speaker 2: to become vice chancellor of a university so he can
Speaker 2: pass on his knowledge to the next generation. Don't you
Speaker 2: love how this country works? He'll also lobby for more
Speaker 2: international students, just as soon as his wage doesn't require
Speaker 2: him to insist on fewer international students.
Speaker 4: Let me trump an incoming vice chancellor with a current
Speaker 4: Cabinet minister. I support the government's propositions. I'm supporting the
Speaker 4: government's changes and that is as it should be.
Speaker 2: So Bill Shorton rides off into the sunset where a
Speaker 2: one point eight million dollar or thereabouts job at Camberra
Speaker 2: University awaits, and genuinely I wish him well. He doesn't
Speaker 2: finish up immediately, though the Prime Minister has insisted mister
Speaker 2: Shorten's stay on in his seat until February. He and
Speaker 2: I agree there is important work still to be done
Speaker 2: to put the National Disability Insurance Scheme on a sustainable footing,
Speaker 2: which really means ensuring there's no need for a by election.
Speaker 2: Oh and sure, a sustainable footing for the NDIS. Speaking
Speaker 2: of the ndis shortens departure now leaves an opportunity or
Speaker 2: is it a poisoned chalice for an MP with more
Speaker 2: ambition than sense, which, let's face it, could be anyone
Speaker 2: in the Labor caucus. There's now an opening for a
Speaker 2: new minister for the National Disability and Insurance Scheme. All
Speaker 2: you have to do is turn around a runaway train
Speaker 2: that former Labour Treasurer Wayne Swann described as out of
Speaker 2: control and completely unsustainable, descriptors which could also be used
Speaker 2: for the Economic portfolio, the immigrationfoliolio and the Energy portfolio,
Speaker 2: any takers. While Anthony Albinezi is contemplating who shortens replacement
Speaker 2: might be, I can well imagine Labor MPs looking down
Speaker 2: to avoid eye contact when walking past the PM in
Speaker 2: the parliament corridors. Shortens colleagues and opponents, Well, they were
Speaker 2: gracious and complementary. Today former PM Tony Abbott tweeting Bill
Speaker 2: Shorten's retirement is a loss for our parliament. Yes, he'll
Speaker 2: continue to serve our country, but we need more people
Speaker 2: of courage and conviction in our public life and Bill
Speaker 2: has been a striver for the higher things in his
Speaker 2: time in the Parliament. Well, I don't think anyone would
Speaker 2: disagree that Bill Shorton has been a striver, he said today,
Speaker 2: he'd always strive to make Australia better.
Speaker 4: But there's something else that aw members have taught me.
Speaker 4: In the end, we're all just passing through. What matters
Speaker 4: is whether we leave the place better than we found it.
Speaker 2: And how's that going? Would anyone agree labor have left
Speaker 2: the place better than they found it? No, well, Bill
Speaker 2: Shorten does.
Speaker 4: I think we're doing a good job, and.
Speaker 2: That's why it's time.
Speaker 1: To go, day.
Speaker 5: To go.
Speaker 2: Well, every now and then you get a horrible reminder
Speaker 2: of why you no longer watch the ABC. This week,
Speaker 2: I had the misfortune of watching the seven thirty program,
Speaker 2: so that you don't have to you can thank me later.
Speaker 2: Host Sarah Ferguson went digging for dirt on Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: She interviewed Trump's former communications director Anthony Scaramucci, who lasted
Speaker 2: just eleven days in the job before being fired. Seriously,
Speaker 2: is that the best they could come up with? Anyway?
Speaker 2: In a nine minute interview, that's almost a full minute
Speaker 2: for every day Scaramuchi actually worked for Trump, one and
Speaker 2: a half minutes was spent on this topic.
Speaker 6: Does Trump really wear a girdle?
Speaker 2: Hang on?
Speaker 1: Sorry?
Speaker 2: Rewind the tape and say that again.
Speaker 7: Does Trump really wear a girdle?
Speaker 2: Now maybe it's just me, but for a billion dollars
Speaker 2: a year, I'm expecting better US election analysis than questions
Speaker 2: about Trump's underwear. Can you imagine the outrage if a
Speaker 2: reporter asked about special underwear worn by Kamala Harris. Anyway,
Speaker 2: having inflicted the question on you, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: full ABC and inflict the answer on you as well
Speaker 2: on certain days. Yes, what's that about?
Speaker 8: He's a you know, he's an image oriented guy. He's
Speaker 8: a television entertainer.
Speaker 2: He does it.
Speaker 8: Heats taking pictures of him from the side because he
Speaker 8: just looks too fat from the side. He looks depictures had.
Speaker 2: On Donald Trump is self conscious about his weight. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure he's Robinson Caruso on that one. But there's more.
Speaker 8: He spends a lot of time in his hair. It's
Speaker 8: like a sort of a weave thing that he does
Speaker 8: up there.
Speaker 2: Trump also spends time on his hair. Now, some of
Speaker 2: us wish we needed to spend more time on our hair,
Speaker 2: But it raises the question, with all that fussing about
Speaker 2: with his hair, would he even have time to close
Speaker 2: the border, sort out the economy, or deal with Putin.
Speaker 2: But let's not bother ourselves with those puerile topics. We're
Speaker 2: talking about the future of the free world.
Speaker 8: He's got a certain orange war paint that he wears,
Speaker 8: he's got two inch heels, lifts and shoes him. And
Speaker 8: though he's a reasonably tall person. There's insecurity there, you know,
Speaker 8: there's the hyper massculinity is a tell for how insecure
Speaker 8: the guy actually is.
Speaker 2: Wait, so Trump wears heels, but he's not a Democrat,
Speaker 2: or maybe the two inch heels of why some believe
Speaker 2: Trump will destabilize the world order. As for hypermasculinity, well,
Speaker 2: some masculinity wouldn't go astray in the West right now.
Speaker 2: But if the hypermasculinity is a tell for how insecure
Speaker 2: Trump is, the puerile commentary by Scaramucci is a tell
Speaker 2: for why he lasted only eleven days in his job.
Speaker 2: Wasn't much of an insight into Trump, but a definite
Speaker 2: insight into his former communications director, and the reminder of
Speaker 2: what you and I get for a lazy one point
Speaker 2: one billion dollars a year on our ABC. Well, as
Speaker 2: I said at the top of the show, former labor
Speaker 2: leader and current NDIS Minister Bill Shorten has announced his
Speaker 2: retirement from politics.
Speaker 4: My English family said it would be unimaginable to my
Speaker 4: grandma the idea that her grandson would have the opportunity
Speaker 4: to serve in a parliament and to indeed run for
Speaker 4: prime minister. I don't worry about what it hasn't been.
Speaker 4: I think I'm really despite the ups and the downs,
Speaker 4: there is not a single day I would hand back
Speaker 4: in seventeen years.
Speaker 2: Bill Shorten has landed a job as vice chancellor at
Speaker 2: the University of Canberra. Let's take this to my panel,
Speaker 2: National Senator Matt Canavan and Perth Mayor Basil Zemplus. Gentlemen,
Speaker 2: thanks for joining me. Matt. This is just what our
Speaker 2: country needs, isn't it yet another left to running a university.
Speaker 3: Well, look, good luck to Bill Shorten. You know, I'm
Speaker 3: not too worried about what his next job is I suppose,
Speaker 3: although you know he's got a pretty big pay increase there.
Speaker 1: I think so good on him.
Speaker 3: Not against people making a good buck in life, but
Speaker 3: it does put him in an interesting position with the
Speaker 3: government looking at capping university numbers as numbers here and
Speaker 3: the university sector up in arms about that. So you
Speaker 3: wonder if this is a strategic move by the universities
Speaker 3: to push back against that move. I certainly think we
Speaker 3: have to take steps to reduce the number of people
Speaker 3: coming to this country. We just don't have enough homes
Speaker 3: for Australi and so we've got to focus on that.
Speaker 3: And look Bell, you know, he always wish people best
Speaker 3: on the way out. I think unfortunately he will be
Speaker 3: remembered for that time that he lost the election. He
Speaker 3: partly lost that because he couldn't bring himself to support
Speaker 3: the Danni coal mine up here in North Queensland. That
Speaker 3: cost him dearly in this day. And it doesn't look
Speaker 3: like Labor parties learnt its lessons. It's now stopping a
Speaker 3: gold mine in New South Wales and I just don't
Speaker 3: think they realize how many people in that mining sector
Speaker 3: there are up here in central Queensland. It's a topic
Speaker 3: of discussion what the Labor Party's doing to a gold
Speaker 3: mine there, because all the workers know that decisions like
Speaker 3: that threaten their livelihoods too.
Speaker 2: Basil you'd think Bill Shorton would be dying to get
Speaker 2: out of Canberra, but he's going to relocate there permanently
Speaker 2: with the university job. Maybe that's how bad Victoria is.
Speaker 9: Well, he loves Camber obviously, and he's got to stay
Speaker 9: in his current role. We heard the Prime Minister say
Speaker 9: until February because there is work still to be done.
Speaker 9: Like everybody, congratulations and good luck to Bill Shawnton. Bill
Speaker 9: shorton seventeen years in the Federal Parliament. He has been,
Speaker 9: as Theodore Roosevelt told us, the man in the arena,
Speaker 9: and for that he deserves the credit. We congratulate him
Speaker 9: in twenty sixteen, twenty nineteen, appreciate his words today and
Speaker 9: stoic and noble, but you don't become the opposition leader
Speaker 9: and lead your party to an election and then hope
Speaker 9: not to win it. And certainly twenty nineteen will burn
Speaker 9: and hurt. But he's moving on. We wish him all
Speaker 9: the best. And yeah, he likes camera. He's going to
Speaker 9: be staying in camera for a bit.
Speaker 2: Longer indeed, and we do wish him all the best.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: The Australian is reporting that the Albanezy government could be
Speaker 2: having second thoughts about unveiling its twenty thirty five emissions
Speaker 2: reduction target. Now the target's supposed to be made public
Speaker 2: in February next year, but it sounds like the government
Speaker 2: has not convinced it would be a good idea to
Speaker 2: announce the target prior to the election. Matt Tai, I
Speaker 2: wonder why the government would balk releasing an emissions target.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the main reason here is the Labor
Speaker 3: government is preparing for minority government. They're keeping their powder
Speaker 3: dry on issues like this so they can keep some
Speaker 3: things in the bottom drawer to pull out when they
Speaker 3: think inevitably may have to negotiate with Teals and.
Speaker 1: Greens after the election.
Speaker 3: And so it'll be if you vote for the Labor
Speaker 3: Party at this election, you'll be giving them an effect
Speaker 3: a blank check to after the election write out a
Speaker 3: massive io you to the Greens and till parties. And
Speaker 3: I don't think that's fair to the Australian public. But
Speaker 3: you know, the Australian public have a chance to see
Speaker 3: through that and not vote for a Labor party that
Speaker 3: cannot commit to what they'll actually do with the next
Speaker 3: term of government because they'll probably deform government need the
Speaker 3: support of Greens and Teals, And of course the Greens
Speaker 3: and Teals will want that emission's target to be as
Speaker 3: high as possible now. I think what we just need
Speaker 3: to do though over all issue here is let's just
Speaker 3: drop all of these targets.
Speaker 1: It's just absolutely absurd.
Speaker 3: We have economy tanking, we have massive geopolitical risks on
Speaker 3: our door store step. None of those countries the north
Speaker 3: of US are taking climate target seriously. It's about time
Speaker 3: we drop these climate change observe climate change targets and
Speaker 3: focus on the only target that matters right now, a
Speaker 3: cost of living target to bring down inflation for people
Speaker 3: and get our standard living back up to a reasonable level.
Speaker 2: Well, taking you up on that point, Basil, I wanted
Speaker 2: to ask you, if Trump wins and pulls out of
Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement as he did last time he was
Speaker 2: in power, and if the rise of conservatives in Europe continues,
Speaker 2: then Australia could set an ambitious emissions target only to
Speaker 2: end up out on a limb all on its own.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's absolutely correct, and I think the ambition on
Speaker 9: its own is fine. The ambition to get towards net
Speaker 9: zero no problem. We should all be striving for a
Speaker 9: more sustainable future, no argument with that, but locking ourselves
Speaker 9: into targets that are more than likely going to be unachievable.
Speaker 9: Does nobody, including the industry that is there to try
Speaker 9: and help us get to those targets any good. Our
Speaker 9: best bet is to work our way towards net zero,
Speaker 9: keep the lights on, keep the costs down, and get
Speaker 9: there when we do. Locking ourselves into unachievable targets does
Speaker 9: nobody any good at all?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean the other point you make there,
Speaker 2: and it's the point well made unachievable. We're barely going
Speaker 2: to make or barely on track to make the twenty
Speaker 2: thirty targets. The cost of power is through the roof.
Speaker 2: We're being warned about potential blackouts. So for the government
Speaker 2: prior to the next election, then to trumpet a brand
Speaker 2: new target of whatever it's going to be, sixty percent
Speaker 2: or whatever is only going to frighten everyone even more
Speaker 2: so I can understand their reticence. More on the subject
Speaker 2: of targets, Swedish carmaker Volvo has become the latest big
Speaker 2: name manufacturer to scrap its screen energy dream. They've dropped
Speaker 2: their promise to go all electric by twenty thirty. Volvo
Speaker 2: are known for the safety of their vehicles, but clearly
Speaker 2: they don't want to take a risk with renewables and
Speaker 2: electricity and their business plan going forward.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just glad James that the principle that the
Speaker 3: customer is always right is re establishing itself. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's the way it should work. That's the way a good,
Speaker 3: well functioning market should work. Is that the car companies,
Speaker 3: the manufacturers of any good are actually there to serve
Speaker 3: the interests of the customers, not there to serve the
Speaker 3: interests of governments, not there to serve the interests of
Speaker 3: activist green movements that want to establish arbitrary targets on
Speaker 3: different numbers. What Volvo should be in the business of
Speaker 3: doing is producing cars that people want to drive. And look,
Speaker 3: some people are happy to drive an electric vehicle. Good
Speaker 3: luck to them. There's no problem with that. It's a
Speaker 3: free country. But clearly these electric vehicles are not suitable
Speaker 3: for many people, large families, people with long commutes, people
Speaker 3: have to in the bush up here, have to travel
Speaker 3: long distances often to and from work and anywhere else
Speaker 3: they want to go. It's just not going to work.
Speaker 3: So we need to have a proper market that just
Speaker 3: delivers for consumers. So I think that is re establishing itself.
Speaker 3: And like all of these ridiculous targets. We're going to
Speaker 3: see them four like dominoes in the years ahead, because
Speaker 3: the promises we were being made will soon be bitten
Speaker 3: by that inevitable dog called reality. That'll happen, and when
Speaker 3: reality catches up with a lot of people will be
Speaker 3: very embarrassed.
Speaker 2: One of the interesting things that Volvo said in this
Speaker 2: announcement was that they wanted stronger government policies to support electrification.
Speaker 2: Isn't it just a fancy sounding admission that people won't
Speaker 2: buy evs without government coercion, precisely what it's saying.
Speaker 9: And these big car manufacturers and Bobo, by the way,
Speaker 9: are not the first one to go down this path.
Speaker 9: We've seen a reversing of stated ambition from a number
Speaker 9: of the big manufacturers. They're not mugs. They're in the
Speaker 9: business of making cars and making money. And if they're
Speaker 9: backing away from full electric, that tells you one thing
Speaker 9: and one thing only, it's not sustainable financially for them
Speaker 9: in the current environment. And again it's another reason why
Speaker 9: targets just don't work. If we're going to get there,
Speaker 9: let's get there when we get there, But trying to
Speaker 9: get there ahead of time can only cause these sorts
Speaker 9: of problems, and I think what was And the other point,
Speaker 9: of course is we don't really know what happens at
Speaker 9: the end of the life of the battery that's in
Speaker 9: the electric cars. Yet most people are now starting to
Speaker 9: tell us you're going to have to throw the battery
Speaker 9: away and probably get a brand new cars, not like
Speaker 9: you can take the battery out and put it in.
Speaker 9: And where does the battery go then, and what happens
Speaker 9: to the rest of the car.
Speaker 1: There's all of those.
Speaker 9: Things to deal with, and that's what happens when you're
Speaker 9: just racing ahead to targets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very well said. I couldn't agree more. The dust
Speaker 2: is finally starting to settle after big after Jim Chalmer's
Speaker 2: big day out yesterday where he spun those disastrous GDP
Speaker 2: figures as if they were some kind of achievement. But
Speaker 2: for all the treasure's hard work, I don't think anyone
Speaker 2: was buying what he was selling. The reaction to the
Speaker 2: data has been less than enthusiastic. You could say, Matt,
Speaker 2: can you claim to be winning by keeping the country
Speaker 2: out of recession by record spending that's fueling inflation?
Speaker 1: Well, you can't.
Speaker 3: You can't, James, You can't because every Australian household knows
Speaker 3: that what the Treasurer is trying to sell matches nothing.
Speaker 1: Like the reality they're facing.
Speaker 3: I mean, the treasure is effectively in the business now
Speaker 3: of telling people to ignore their lying eyes. They can
Speaker 3: see themselves their stand of living falling. And if you
Speaker 3: look deeper into the economic statistics on a per person basis,
Speaker 3: the standard living of the average Australian household has fallen
Speaker 3: back to levels we hadn't seen haven't seen since twenty eleven.
Speaker 3: We've gone back in just two years of this Labor government.
Speaker 3: We've gone back thirteen years and that's never been just
Speaker 3: an unprecedented reduction. And everybody can feel that. Treasure I
Speaker 3: was trying to say, no, you've never had it better.
Speaker 3: You've got a great government's doing great jobs.
Speaker 1: It's not going to work.
Speaker 3: I just think, I mean for that, I'm not in
Speaker 3: the business of giving the Labor Party advice, but I
Speaker 3: do think it would be better if we could find
Speaker 3: some leaders who would tell us the truth, level with
Speaker 3: us and then come up with real solutions, not handouts,
Speaker 3: not little sugar hits, but real solutions that could get
Speaker 3: us out of this hole. And the longer the Treasurer
Speaker 3: continues to try and tell us fairy tales, the sooner
Speaker 3: he's going to find himself having a pretty nasty ending.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Basil record spending and just bringing more and more
Speaker 2: people into the country hardly sounds like a financial plan.
Speaker 1: It's adding to inflation. We know that.
Speaker 9: In nice blag Jim Chalmers, I'm tempted to say I
Speaker 9: feel a bit sorry for him. There are some jobs
Speaker 9: from the other side of the fence that probably look
Speaker 9: like they're pretty easy when everything's going well. I'm not
Speaker 9: sure that Treasurer of this country is one of them.
Speaker 9: But I tell you what, when things aren't going so well,
Speaker 9: it doesn't look like an easy job then, and right now,
Speaker 9: Jim Chalmers looks like he's got the hardest job in
Speaker 9: the country and that he is not enjoying one bit
Speaker 9: of it. This is a tough sell and he's not
Speaker 9: doing a very good job of selling our financial position
Speaker 9: to the Australian public at the moment. Because what everyday
Speaker 9: Australians understand is the cost of living, and.
Speaker 1: Is the cost of living.
Speaker 9: Is the cost of their everyday existence going up?
Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
Speaker 9: That's the language every day Australians understand. And on that
Speaker 9: score he's being marked with a big cross.
Speaker 2: Now I've got to go to a break but before
Speaker 2: I do, Basil, I want to get your tip. I
Speaker 2: know you're an AFL lover. Who's going to win the premiership?
Speaker 2: The final start today? Who's going to win?
Speaker 9: Five teams can win it? I reckon, But Sydney have
Speaker 9: been the best team all year. So Sydney, but they're
Speaker 9: going to need a little bit of luck.
Speaker 2: There you go, all right, I'll hold you to that
Speaker 2: tip and we'll check in a few weeks whether or
Speaker 2: not you are right. Thanks, gentlemen, appreciate your time stick
Speaker 2: with us. Coming up after the break outrage over the
Speaker 2: social media history of an independent candidate running for our
Speaker 2: federal parliament, how could we allow someone who seemed to
Speaker 2: celebrate the October seven massacres go anywhere near Canberra? Plus
Speaker 2: Meta abandons all pretense of supporting its Jewish users. Julian
Speaker 2: Lisa will be on the show next well. As some
Speaker 2: of you may be aware, there's a man running for
Speaker 2: office at the next federal election who appears to have
Speaker 2: supported the murder of Israelis. On October seven. This man,
Speaker 2: a Muslim doctor named Ziad Basioni, is gunning for Home
Speaker 2: Affairs Minister Tony Burke's seat in Western Sydney. Now it's
Speaker 2: unthinkable to me that someone who shared social media posts
Speaker 2: seemingly celebrating the murders of twelve hundred Israelis could end
Speaker 2: up with a seat in the Australian Federal Parliament. And
Speaker 2: yet that's exactly what could happen. Five days after the
Speaker 2: October seven attack, Basione shared this post with his one
Speaker 2: hundred thirty two thousand followers on Facebook. It appears to
Speaker 2: celebrate the graduation of Palestinians from throwing rocks at Israelis
Speaker 2: to being able to paraglide into the Nova Music festival
Speaker 2: with machine guns, murdering four hundred young people in cold blood.
Speaker 2: The caption reads dreams, my friend come true for those
Speaker 2: who seek and work to make them come true. The
Speaker 2: guy sharing this disgusting post now dreams of sitting in
Speaker 2: our parliament. Liberal MP Julian Lisa is with me in
Speaker 2: the studio. Julian, thanks for joining me. It's just a
Speaker 2: few days ago that Azoboss Mike Burgess said anyone celebrating
Speaker 2: October seven or supporting October seven attacks on social media.
Speaker 2: Is not fit to come into this country. And yet
Speaker 2: this guy dreams of sitting in Federal Parliament.
Speaker 6: Well, I think he's not fit to sit in the
Speaker 6: Federal Parliament.
Speaker 1: James.
Speaker 2: If this isn't.
Speaker 6: Glorification of terrorism, I don't know what is. How could
Speaker 6: any Australian citizen possibly celebrate the murder of twelve hundred
Speaker 6: innocent people by putting up this post and think that
Speaker 6: their contribution to the Federal Parliament in any way will
Speaker 6: add to the social cohesion of this country.
Speaker 2: I think this is a disgrace.
Speaker 6: I think this man is unfit for parliament and I
Speaker 6: hope the electors of Watson do the right thing and
Speaker 6: dispatch him.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope the electors do the right thing as well.
Speaker 2: He's running against Tony Burke, speaking of doing the right thing,
Speaker 2: he's battling to retain the seat. There's a high Muslim
Speaker 2: population in that seat. But Tony Burke has not come
Speaker 2: out and condemned this gentleman or his posts.
Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly right.
Speaker 6: Tony Burke should come out and condemn this person. Tony
Speaker 6: Burke is the Minister for Home affairs. He has the
Speaker 6: social cohesion of our country as part of his responsibility.
Speaker 6: Tony Burke has protecting Australians and keeping them safe as
Speaker 6: part of his responsibility. Tony Burke needs to stop thinking
Speaker 6: about what's going on in his electorate and start thinking
Speaker 6: about the national interest. So I want to hear Tony
Speaker 6: Burke condemn this man loudly and clearly for glorifying a terrorist.
Speaker 2: Act absolutely now. Sky News previously reported that Basioni used
Speaker 2: a separate Facebook post to share videos of people celebrating
Speaker 2: the attacks on October seven. They were celebrating in Western Sydney.
Speaker 2: These attacks have listened to what he said when asked
Speaker 2: about that, it's.
Speaker 10: Obvious that this post was related to Palestinians celebrating being
Speaker 10: out of the cage.
Speaker 2: They've been under dures for twelve years, so there's his explanation. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: the Australia Palestine Advocacy Network, who advertise that they stand
Speaker 2: for human rights and justice, well, they declined to comment
Speaker 2: when asked what they thought about these posts.
Speaker 6: I think it's a disgrace James that they've failed to comment.
Speaker 6: I think we know exactly what they think about these posts.
Speaker 6: Some of the statements by Apan in recent months. I'm
Speaker 6: saying that from the river to the sea is an
Speaker 6: acceptable phrase, talking about Israel as a claiming of state
Speaker 6: and denying the importance of a two state solution. In fact,
Speaker 6: rejecting a two state solution says that they're not playing
Speaker 6: an important role which they should be playing, which is
Speaker 6: advocating for Palestinian people, but doing so in a way
Speaker 6: that matches our foreign policy and our national interests and
Speaker 6: the social cohesion of this country.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand organizations that advertise they stand for
Speaker 2: human rights and justice but then can't condemn what appears
Speaker 2: to be people celebrating murder and terrorism. Julian does you
Speaker 2: says sorry.
Speaker 6: Often when we talk about human rights and justice in
Speaker 6: the world today, particularly among so called human rights advocates,
Speaker 6: it's human rights for everyone else other than Jewish people.
Speaker 6: And that's the tragedy that we're seeing around the world today.
Speaker 2: Indeed, we've got numbers of Muslims saying they're going to
Speaker 2: run as independence at the next federal election. Effectively they're
Speaker 2: running on one issue, and that's Gaza. I just want
Speaker 2: to ask you about what's happening in the UK because
Speaker 2: I think that's instructive. The labor government there has just
Speaker 2: put restrictions on sales of weapons to Israel in response
Speaker 2: essentially to domestic political pressure where they've had a lot
Speaker 2: of Muslims run for local government and at the most
Speaker 2: recent elections. My question, Julian, is are we seeing Western
Speaker 2: political systems being hijacked by a particular religious group to
Speaker 2: prosecute a foreign war against one of our own allies.
Speaker 6: James, as an Australian, I want to see my foreign policy,
Speaker 6: the foreign policy of my government based on values, and
Speaker 6: that means that Australia, like Britain, should stand with Western
Speaker 6: democratic allies like Israel, who believe in democracy, in the
Speaker 6: rule of law, in equal rights for men and women.
Speaker 6: These are some of the fundamental issues that our foreign
Speaker 6: policy should be based and we should be standing by
Speaker 6: those allies in their time of need. And we shouldn't
Speaker 6: be weakening our foreign policy to appeal to one group
Speaker 6: or another. Should be basing them on the broad, historic
Speaker 6: and enduring values of this country.
Speaker 2: We should be, but that's evidently not what's happening in
Speaker 2: the UK. My fear is we're going to experience that
Speaker 2: same trend here.
Speaker 6: Well, I think the government has been weak on these
Speaker 6: issues and I want to see the government be strong.
Speaker 6: And I don't think government members would be facing the
Speaker 6: political threats that they're facing in Western Sydney if they've
Speaker 6: been very clear, if they've been very clear from the
Speaker 6: outset that our foreign policy will not bend the noisy minorities,
Speaker 6: that it will remain traditional for Australian foreign policy, which
Speaker 6: is standing by ally Israel. But unfortunately, even before the
Speaker 6: seventh of October, we know the government has been backsliding
Speaker 6: on Israel. We know they changed the capital, we know
Speaker 6: they were renewed funding to UNRA, and of course employees
Speaker 6: were involved in the seventh of October terrorist attacks. The
Speaker 6: main headquarters was the communications center for Hamas. We know
Speaker 6: also that they've changed Australia's votes at the un This
Speaker 6: government has been backsliding on Israel long before the seventh
Speaker 6: of October because of their own intern Labor Party constituency.
Speaker 6: This is why we really need Peter Dutton and the
Speaker 6: Coalition back in charge, because only the Coalition will guarantee
Speaker 6: that Australian foreign policy will always be based on our
Speaker 6: enduring values and interests.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you just one more question before
Speaker 2: we let you go. It's not only Western governments who
Speaker 2: appear to be abandoning Israel. Meta, who own Facebook, have
Speaker 2: just ruled that the slogan from the river to the
Speaker 2: Sea is not hate speech. The tech giants independent Oversight
Speaker 2: Board has given a free pass to Facebook and Instagram
Speaker 2: users to continue using that phrase in their posts. I
Speaker 2: love this as long as the posts don't glorify a
Speaker 2: mus or incite violence. So you can say death to
Speaker 2: Israel as long as you say it nicely.
Speaker 6: This is the most ridiculous decision of Meta. And as
Speaker 6: we know, social media companies do not have the interests
Speaker 6: of communities and countries like Australia at heart. They are
Speaker 6: just interested in profit and interested in controversy.
Speaker 2: But this is a terrible thing.
Speaker 6: To allow to continue. This is a violent phrase from
Speaker 6: the river of the sea. It calls for the violent
Speaker 6: destruction of Israel. It's not about having two people in
Speaker 6: a two state solution. And when you actually go to
Speaker 6: the original Arabic, it means from water to water, Palestine
Speaker 6: will remain Arab.
Speaker 1: That's what it means.
Speaker 6: It's not about being free, it's about being one unitary
Speaker 6: Arab state and that's not what Australia has been looking for.
Speaker 1: That's not what I've.
Speaker 6: Been looking for, that's not what the world's been looking for.
Speaker 6: And this is a hateful phrase. It calls for the
Speaker 6: violent destruction of the Jewish people. The Prime Minister is
Speaker 6: right to call it out months ago. The Senate, in
Speaker 6: a bipartisan resolution that was opposed by the Greens, was
Speaker 6: right to describe it as such, and Meta as a laggard,
Speaker 6: as they are in so many areas.
Speaker 2: Indeed, Julian Lisa, thanks so much for joining me tonight.
Speaker 1: Thanks James.
Speaker 2: Well still to come. I'll cross live to the United
Speaker 2: States to discuss the latest in the presidential election with
Speaker 2: Adam Crichton. But first the bizarre way the BBC is
Speaker 2: trying to save money firing hundreds of its staff and
Speaker 2: replace them with diversity hires. I'll discuss that with my
Speaker 2: panel right after this short break. Welcome back. Lots more
Speaker 2: to get through tonight, so let's jump straight into it
Speaker 2: with commentator Jason Morrison and The Australian's National Affairs editor
Speaker 2: Joe Kelly. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. I want to
Speaker 2: return to today's main story, the shock retirement of Bill Shorten.
Speaker 2: Here were his passing words on his legacy achievements.
Speaker 4: What we did three weeks ago in the Parliament has
Speaker 4: meant that we will be able to set this on
Speaker 4: a direction where the scheme will be true to its
Speaker 4: original purpose, where the shanks and frauds are evicted, and
Speaker 4: we'll start focusing on outcomes for people. And I'm absolutely
Speaker 4: positive about the bright horizon for the NDIS. I've had
Speaker 4: the very very very privileged position to lead labor. I've
Speaker 4: had the chance to help the victims of robodebt.
Speaker 2: So there you go, Bill short riding off into the sunset. Jason,
Speaker 2: did you see this coming? No? I mean, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to be smart and so yeah, but I set
Speaker 2: you up beautiful there. You could have been a great.
Speaker 5: That he stopped giving two thirds of you know what
Speaker 5: a while back when he was confronted with the NDOS
Speaker 5: and the absolute sandwich that that is. I got the
Speaker 5: feeling the guy was kind of almost you know, he
Speaker 5: knew he was fixed, and I sense he thinks they're
Speaker 5: fixed too, And that's part of it. And you know,
Speaker 5: if you're at Bill Shorten's agent stage in politics, with
Speaker 5: probably no chance of being Prime Minister, which you know,
Speaker 5: if it hadn't been for bow And, he probably would
Speaker 5: have ended up Prime minister once upon a time. I
Speaker 5: would think there's probably just something that goes on your head,
Speaker 5: you say, there's got to be better things out there.
Speaker 5: So now he's going off into academia, and aren't we
Speaker 5: lucky as a country?
Speaker 8: You know what?
Speaker 5: Can he run a course in the public maladministration or something.
Speaker 5: It is extraordinary how these people graduate on to bigger
Speaker 5: and better things all the time, and the good old
Speaker 5: taxpayer has to sit there and pay for it. But
Speaker 5: you know, it's an impossible task. The NDI is impossible,
Speaker 5: and I think he has tried very, very hard, and
Speaker 5: it's kind of tragic it away because I mean, I
Speaker 5: know you won't with any friends on the sky and
Speaker 5: newsed by telling you that Bill Shorton actually is quite
Speaker 5: a decent man. And I've always found him to be
Speaker 5: you all the good qualities you want't a politician, except
Speaker 5: when it comes to judgment of character. And he has
Speaker 5: allowed and he allowed himself to get knocked out of
Speaker 5: the game by promoting a deal like Bowen to where
Speaker 5: Bowen got to at one stage.
Speaker 2: And he genuinely cares about the genuinely believes in it. Joe,
Speaker 2: let me go to you, what would you say Bill
Speaker 2: Shorten's legacy will be.
Speaker 11: Oh, look, that's a that's a really good question. I
Speaker 11: think Bill Shorten will be remembered for this overwhelming and
Speaker 11: expansive sense of political ambition. And while the announcement today
Speaker 11: I think was surprising from some perspectives, it wasn't really
Speaker 11: because I think it's an admission that he knows he's
Speaker 11: never going to be minister. So Bill Shorton came into
Speaker 11: Parliament in two thousand and seven, He's immediately made a
Speaker 11: Parliamentary secretary. He then very quickly gets involved in the
Speaker 11: leadership machinations, plotting to overturn Kevin Rudd. And when Labour
Speaker 11: lost the twenty thirteen election, he was in that runoff
Speaker 11: against Anthony Albanesi. And I actually think if he sat
Speaker 11: back at that time and let Anthony Albanese go on
Speaker 11: to lead the Labor Party, I think there's a good
Speaker 11: chance that Bill Shorton might actually have ended up being
Speaker 11: Prime Minister today.
Speaker 1: So look, I.
Speaker 11: Think his career was driven by this sense of aspiration
Speaker 11: to achievement, and I think that's sort of the defining
Speaker 11: characteristic of Bill Short he didn't want to leave anything
Speaker 11: wanting in his political career.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of leaving things wanting, let's talk about local
Speaker 2: government for second. The City Morning Herald is reporting that
Speaker 2: misbehaving counselors would face fine, suspensions or disqualification from public
Speaker 2: office under a proposed suite of reforms aimed at streamlining
Speaker 2: accountability and instilling transparency in local government. So basically what
Speaker 2: they're going to do, Jason, is they're going to come
Speaker 2: up with a simplified code of conducts Now, that sounds great,
Speaker 2: but I was amazinges a one pager, Well, it'll be
Speaker 2: two pages. I was fascinated to read today the existing
Speaker 2: code of conduct for councilors in New South Wales. It
Speaker 2: runs to one hundred pages.
Speaker 5: Which is not bad because I'd say overwhelming most of
Speaker 5: them can't read.
Speaker 1: We have a remarkable ruling.
Speaker 5: Class in this country except in local government. When you
Speaker 5: realize you think you've got B graders in Canberra or
Speaker 5: in your state parliament, go have a look at your
Speaker 5: local council. This is pretty amazing. This will be weaponized,
Speaker 5: for sure, It'll be weaponized.
Speaker 1: If you want to look at.
Speaker 5: The bitchiness of politics in its ugliness. You look at
Speaker 5: local government, they are disgrace full towards each other and
Speaker 5: throw dung at each other all the time.
Speaker 2: And most of the time.
Speaker 5: Of course, you know where the financiers of these little
Speaker 5: games are going with these people that spend time in
Speaker 5: there talking about the Gaza strip and whatever as opposed
Speaker 5: to the nature strip. I think it's kind of amusing.
Speaker 5: And you know what else is amusing. And I'm sorry
Speaker 5: to get personal on this, but most people should actually
Speaker 5: google Ron Honig, who is the local government Minister in
Speaker 5: New South Wales, and look at his local government career.
Speaker 5: A man who was not contested as a mayor and
Speaker 5: sometimes didn't even need to have elections because somehow they
Speaker 5: figured out a way of scaring all the other candidates
Speaker 5: away in the local government seat of Botany. It was
Speaker 5: pretty extraordinary to see that man is now the local
Speaker 5: government ministry in New South Wales because he knows the
Speaker 5: game better than anybody else. And when I say the game,
Speaker 5: I mean the game. It is extraordinary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you see local governments doing crazy things and
Speaker 2: you never really see local government ministers getting involved. Joe,
Speaker 2: I've got an idea. I want to run past you Okay,
Speaker 2: so thinking about this all day, I want your thoughts.
Speaker 2: They're saying they're going to have three tests for alleged misbehavior,
Speaker 2: conduct unbecoming, conduct that brings the Council into disrepute, and
Speaker 2: conduct that is outside the norms that's expected, but I
Speaker 2: want to add three more Code of Conduct violations. Give
Speaker 2: me your thoughts. Trying to rewrite Australian history, taking positions
Speaker 2: on foreign affairs, and flying flags other than the Australian flag,
Speaker 2: they should be Code of Conduct breaches as well.
Speaker 11: What do you say, Oh, look, I totally agree. I
Speaker 11: think local government's very important. I think one of the
Speaker 11: shames is that it often gets left out of the debate.
Speaker 11: But local government is responsible for steering local communities, you know, roads,
Speaker 11: rates and rubbish. It's important that we have good people
Speaker 11: on local councils making these decisions and a lot of
Speaker 11: the time I think it's sometimes.
Speaker 2: Falls through the cracks.
Speaker 11: But one of the I think to disturbing things is
Speaker 11: that there's this tendency to focus on things other than
Speaker 11: the bread and butter issues, So things like the date
Speaker 11: of Australia Day, things like what's going on in the
Speaker 11: Middle East in relation to Israel in relation to Gaza.
Speaker 11: So I mean, I don't think that should be the
Speaker 11: core business of local government, and I think it's a
Speaker 11: shame that too often we hear local government straying into
Speaker 11: these diversions when their job is critically important for the
Speaker 11: basic efficient functioning of our societies and for individual people.
Speaker 2: Well, while we're talking about local government, it's a perfect
Speaker 2: segue into artificial intelligence, Joe. You reported today that Labor
Speaker 2: is immediately introducing voluntary AI safeguards as it looks at
Speaker 2: some different measures to mitigate the risks that come when
Speaker 2: using AI. Just quickly, what are the big risks for
Speaker 2: consumers now that so many businesses are using AI, and
Speaker 2: how would a voluntary code as suggested by the government
Speaker 2: mitigate those risks.
Speaker 11: Well, look, I think the main thing firstly is that
Speaker 11: this is a voluntary code. So they've done another report
Speaker 11: that will go out for consultation for at least another
Speaker 11: four weeks, and then the government will have to consider
Speaker 11: the regulatory response. So this is a very complicated issue.
Speaker 11: AI will affect all levels of our society, in our economy,
Speaker 11: and it's going to require a pretty comprehensive regulatory response.
Speaker 11: So they're looking at whether there'll be a standalone AI
Speaker 11: Act or whether you have some sort of other approach
Speaker 11: to individual legislation where you're adapting individual regulations to adjust
Speaker 11: for this new revolution. But none of that's happening at
Speaker 11: the moment. There is a voluntary code of conduct that's
Speaker 11: being introduced.
Speaker 1: So I think the.
Speaker 11: Issue is that Ed Husick needs to get his skates
Speaker 11: on and we should have a plan. And I think
Speaker 11: it would be ideal if that plan was presented this
Speaker 11: side of the election.
Speaker 2: Whenever they talk about, you know, governments wanting to protect
Speaker 2: us from AI, all I can think of is the
Speaker 2: Biden administration appointing Kamala Harris to protect humanity from AI.
Speaker 5: God help us set further e Karen E Karen, Yeah,
Speaker 5: good call' that'll be the the boss of the AI world.
Speaker 5: And God help Australia. That be leave us being pulled
Speaker 5: everywhere about it. That'smazing how they want to get involved
Speaker 5: in everything, but about five years too late.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah right. Let's let's go to the UK where
Speaker 2: the BBC are saying that five hundred staff will lose
Speaker 2: their jobs over the next two years to help them
Speaker 2: with their bottom line. But it's not all bad news
Speaker 2: for the BBC. They can't afford to pay five hundred
Speaker 2: staff who there letting go, but they can afford to
Speaker 2: spend eight hundred million pounds year on diversity programs, you know,
Speaker 2: the stuff that really matters, eighty million pounds a year.
Speaker 5: Sorry, did we say BBC or ABC because this sounds remarkable.
Speaker 2: It's just like you've got the currencies. Oh, it's the
Speaker 2: same all over the world with national broadcasters. Joe, correct
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, But it's the BBC eventually firing
Speaker 2: staff and just replacing them with newer, woker dei hires instead.
Speaker 11: Well, look, we had a similar thing that happened at
Speaker 11: the ABC when they got rid of Andrew Proben and
Speaker 11: replaced him with you know, digital producers. I think one
Speaker 11: of the issues for mainstream media organizations today is that
Speaker 11: we do have to do more with less.
Speaker 1: There are more people.
Speaker 11: Tuning out of mainstream media looking at other sources of media.
Speaker 11: But public broadcasters, compared at least to the private sector,
Speaker 11: in a relatively luxurious position. And you think that if
Speaker 11: there are going to be cuts, if they're going to
Speaker 11: lay people off in journal are going to be out
Speaker 11: of work, you'd at least think that they're managing their
Speaker 11: budgets effectively and not wasting it on diversity programs. So
Speaker 11: those are my thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Well, their diversity programs, Jackson, are very important to them
Speaker 2: because they want twenty five percent of all their staff
Speaker 2: to either be ethnic, disabled or from a lower socio
Speaker 2: economic part of town. Is that a good plan for
Speaker 2: building a news organization?
Speaker 5: Well, look, I can only relate the Australian experience the
Speaker 5: removal of the was it pale, stale and mails out
Speaker 5: of the ABC. They did plenty of that and they
Speaker 5: moved a lot of people on and all that's happened
Speaker 5: is the organization has gone of the shit. And the
Speaker 5: whole problem I think with the ABC at the moment
Speaker 5: is it's got too many people. I mean, they might
Speaker 5: have a lot of diversity.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't have a lot of integrity.
Speaker 5: And the diversity they always talk about, it's always about
Speaker 5: skin color, or it's always about ethnicity or accents whatever.
Speaker 5: It's never about diversity of views. And you know, I
Speaker 5: overthink the British public probably would love to see its
Speaker 5: national broadcast, which by the way, is vastly better than
Speaker 5: our national broadcast.
Speaker 1: With this country and more popular and viewed.
Speaker 5: But I think they'd like to see it diverse in
Speaker 5: its attitude as opposed to just looking at things, because
Speaker 5: things are a little deeper than skin deep. And you know,
Speaker 5: it's quite amusing to watch what we know doesn't work
Speaker 5: in Australia now go on in other parts of the world.
Speaker 1: And you know, God help the.
Speaker 5: BBC, because it actually kind of matters to the world,
Speaker 5: the BBC, and it's tragic in a way that they're
Speaker 5: going to screw that one.
Speaker 2: Up to Yeah, it does, Jason and Joe, Thanks for
Speaker 2: joining me tonight. I appreciate your time. Well still to come.
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris's running mate Tim Waltz is humiliated as eight
Speaker 2: family members publicly declared their support for Donald Trump. Plus
Speaker 2: how the latest poles are playing out. All of that
Speaker 2: in just a moment with Adam Crichton. Okay, well, let's
Speaker 2: turn our attention to the US, where Donald Trump has
Speaker 2: unleashed on Kamala Harris and Tim Waltz during a town
Speaker 2: hall moderated by Fox News.
Speaker 4: Snippet This conjury will end up in a depression if
Speaker 4: she becomes president like nineteen twenty nine, this will be
Speaker 4: a nineteen twenty nine depression.
Speaker 2: She has no idea what the hell she's doing. So
Speaker 2: there you go. Let's cross live to Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: Where I'm joined by the Australians correspondent there, Adam Crichton. Adam,
Speaker 2: great to see you. It was a pretty friendly event,
Speaker 2: but it was another opportunity for Trump to blast Kamala,
Speaker 2: wasn't it.
Speaker 7: Well, certainly it was a friendly event, but at least
Speaker 7: he's doing events. I mean, he's been doing so many
Speaker 7: interviews recently. And it was no surprise that it was
Speaker 7: held in Pennsylvania because that state is just so crucial
Speaker 7: really to this election. I mean, it's a state that
Speaker 7: Democrats have won in every election since nineteen eighty eight
Speaker 7: except for twenty sixteen, which of course was when Trump won,
Speaker 7: and pretty much whoever wins that state this time will
Speaker 7: probably win the presidential election. Now, the problem with the
Speaker 7: vice president is she has a huge shortcoming there.
Speaker 1: Because it's a state that's fairly.
Speaker 7: Dependent on fracking, and she has said previously that she's
Speaker 7: opposed to fracking, so that's what Trump is really hammering
Speaker 7: her over now.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Harris's running mate Tim Walls hees nursing a Bruce
Speaker 2: ego after some of his relatives from Nebraska openly declared
Speaker 2: their support for Donald Trump. They've even posted a family
Speaker 2: photo wearing Trump shirts. Now, Charles Herbster posted the image
Speaker 2: of eight family members distant supposedly to the Minnesota governor,
Speaker 2: wearing matching tops which say Nebraska Waltz's family for Trump. Adam,
Speaker 2: it's going to be an awkward Christmas if the Democrats lose,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, certainly that is very embarrassing. And the photo was
Speaker 7: so embarrassing people thought that it might have been fake,
Speaker 7: but it is apparently real.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny about that is.
Speaker 7: Most of the media over here is all over the
Speaker 7: nieces and nephews of Donald Trump, who of course hate him.
Speaker 7: They're always saying that, but so far they haven't been
Speaker 7: all over this photo, so they should be. And actually,
Speaker 7: it's worth pointing out it's not just the Waltzes, it's
Speaker 7: also Barack Obama's His older half brother has also been
Speaker 7: tweeting that he'll be supporting Trump. So a few issues
Speaker 7: with family members on the campaign.
Speaker 2: What did I say? You can't choose your family? A
Speaker 2: new see an End poll has found that there's no
Speaker 2: clear favorite across all six battleground states, with Harris leading
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin and Michigan, Trump taking the advantage in Arizona,
Speaker 2: and voters split almost evenly in Georgia, Nevada, and Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: There's lots of poles saying all sorts of things. What's
Speaker 2: your read on the situation as it currently stands.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, the polls generally show that Kamala Harris is
Speaker 7: ahead by one or two percentage points, but that is
Speaker 7: just the margin of error. I mean, personally, I prefer
Speaker 7: to look at the bedding markets, and if you look
Speaker 7: at those, Trump is actually slightly ahead. I mean the
Speaker 7: average at the moment of the major eight.
Speaker 2: Bookies in the US that offer odds on.
Speaker 7: This he's on forty nine points seven percent chance of
Speaker 7: winning and she's on forty nine percent.
Speaker 1: So it's still extremely close. But it's just.
Speaker 7: Important to point out that the betting markets move faster,
Speaker 7: and they're probably taken into account the Robert F. Kennedy effect,
Speaker 7: which some of those polls have not taken into account.
Speaker 7: Of course, he's dropped out and he's joined the Trump campaign.
Speaker 7: So look just extremely extremely close with two months ago.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's really all down.
Speaker 7: I think at this point to the debate on Tuesday
Speaker 7: night next week, that's going to be such an important
Speaker 7: event for both candidates.
Speaker 2: All Right, I want to ask you quickly about Republican
Speaker 2: former Representative Liz Cheney. She's just announced that she'll vote
Speaker 2: Democrat at the election. Have a listen, as is the danger.
Speaker 7: That Donald Trump poses.
Speaker 12: Not only am I not voting for Donald Trump, but
Speaker 12: I am voting him from commerce.
Speaker 2: Well it's nice, but of course, back in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: Liz Cheney was calling Kamala Harris a radical liberal who
Speaker 2: was further to left than Bernie Sanders. Here she is in.
Speaker 12: One foul sweep. Here he has put somebody on the
Speaker 12: tech whose voting record in the Senate is to the
Speaker 12: left of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. So I think that,
Speaker 12: you know, the American people are going to look at
Speaker 12: the substance of this. They're going to look at what
Speaker 12: she stood for in the past, They're going to look
Speaker 12: at what she said during the primary election, and it's
Speaker 12: very clear she is a radical liberal.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're allowed to change your mind. But what
Speaker 2: is going on there?
Speaker 7: Well, she's probably auditioning for a cabinet spot.
Speaker 1: Actually, I would say.
Speaker 7: If Kamala Harris wins, I mean, the Vice President said
Speaker 7: recently that she would have a Republican into her cabinet,
Speaker 7: and I think Liz Cheney would be the perfect option
Speaker 7: for her. She's hated Trump for a very very long time,
Speaker 7: so it was really no surprise that she's come out
Speaker 7: against him, and I don't think it's going to make
Speaker 7: any difference at all to the votes.
Speaker 2: And we've got about thirty seconds left. I just want
Speaker 2: to get one final thought. Obviously, the next big event
Speaker 2: is the debate. What of each candidate got to win
Speaker 2: and lose from that debate just in thirty seconds.
Speaker 7: Well, look, I think all the pressure is going to
Speaker 7: be on Donald Trump there. The media is going to
Speaker 7: be very inclined here to say that he lost, so
Speaker 7: he really has to put in a sterling performance. He
Speaker 7: can't be too rude, but he can't be too soft,
Speaker 7: so I think he'd be very anxious about it. So look,
Speaker 7: I think we're all going to be watching. It's going
Speaker 7: to be extraordinary.
Speaker 2: TV is absolutely going to be must watch television. Adam Crichton,
Speaker 2: thanks so much for your time. It's always an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2: To speak with you. Well, that's it from me. Sharry
Speaker 2: Markson will be back next week. But don't go anywhere,
Speaker 2: because coming right up is the wonderful Paul Murray