Speaker 1: I've worked with many of the artists and the art
Speaker 1: centers from the ap Wylands over decades now, and I
Speaker 1: had been made aware that they were working on a
Speaker 1: really ambitious project of major three by three meter paintings
Speaker 1: and that they were looking to build a community project
Speaker 1: and would seek venues later for this major project.
Speaker 2: Bruce Johnson MacLean is a weary person from Central Queensland.
Speaker 2: He's an art curator. His role to work with artists
Speaker 2: to bring their vision to a wider audience. It's what
Speaker 2: he's done for most of his life. In twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: he was working at the National Gallery as Assistant Director
Speaker 2: of Indigenous Engagement when he heard about this project coming
Speaker 2: out of the ap Wylands in the Central Australian desert.
Speaker 2: It was called in Guapooka or Epic Country. He was
Speaker 2: excited to see what they were making.
Speaker 1: They saw images quite early of the first I believe
Speaker 1: it was nine paintings that they produced. And the artists
Speaker 1: of the apy Lands are really well known for bringing
Speaker 1: a real vibrance and a real color to desert painting.
Speaker 1: So these desert paintings based on or informed by dreaming stories.
Speaker 1: In recent years, the apy artists have bought very contemporary
Speaker 1: ideas into desert painting as well.
Speaker 2: I've been fortunate enough to see some ap y in
Speaker 2: the flesh and up close, and it's exactly as you describe, vivid,
Speaker 2: seeing all the colors in the desert that you don't
Speaker 2: know that are there until they pointed out to you.
Speaker 2: You must have been tremendously excited at the prospect of
Speaker 2: exhibiting their work.
Speaker 1: I was really excited, and when we started seeing the
Speaker 1: actual works, I was blown away. This is a really
Speaker 1: kind of ambitious group of artist Many of them are
Speaker 1: you know, really well known in Australia but also internationally,
Speaker 1: but by the same sort of token. A lot of
Speaker 1: artists don't get recognized through a major exhibition until, you know,
Speaker 1: long after they're dead. So the artists really wanted to
Speaker 1: make this show to celebrate themselves and each other, you know,
Speaker 1: while they were still alive. So they took the initiative
Speaker 1: of building this exhibition, and you know, it is quite
Speaker 1: unique in the way that they've gone about doing it.
Speaker 1: They've just taken it all on themselves and then have
Speaker 1: gone out and looked for partners in museums and galleries
Speaker 1: who might want to show that body of work.
Speaker 2: Bruce wanted to be that partner and good to Pooker
Speaker 2: was one of the largest and most significant First Nations
Speaker 2: community driven art projects to have ever been developed. He
Speaker 2: jumped at the chance to work with them and bring
Speaker 2: their art to a massive audience at the National Gallery
Speaker 2: of Australia.
Speaker 1: So the exhibition itself was partially on the walls. It
Speaker 1: was probably seventy eighty percent installed. When the stories started
Speaker 1: coming out and everything sort of stopped. A Holt was
Speaker 1: put on the show.
Speaker 3: This is the biggest scandal to rock the Indigenous art
Speaker 3: world in years, accusations of white hands interfering with Aboriginal art.
Speaker 2: In a front page story in the weeknd Australian was
Speaker 2: the headline white hands on prized Black paintings from the
Speaker 2: ap Wylands. It may claims the white studio staff were
Speaker 2: interfering with Indigenous artworks in a significant way and sparked
Speaker 2: a media campaign and a horror year for the collective.
Speaker 2: From Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM
Speaker 2: Today curated Bruce John MacLean and reported Gabriela Koslovich on
Speaker 2: the ap Y Art scandal and the complicated question of
Speaker 2: authenticity in the Aboriginal art world. It's Friday, August thirty,
Speaker 2: Gabriela Koslovich. You've been looking into the whole saga around
Speaker 2: the Ingura Polka show and it really started with a video.
Speaker 2: Tell me more about what happened.
Speaker 4: Well, about two months before the Nuapulka exhibition was about
Speaker 4: to start, a video was leaked and stills from that
Speaker 4: video were published in the Weekend Australian, alongside an extensive
Speaker 4: front page story with the damning headline white Hands on
Speaker 4: Black Art, claiming that white staff were interfering with the
Speaker 4: work of Indigenous artists.
Speaker 5: And what design that I put on my painting and
Speaker 5: then she would come along and then she would paint
Speaker 5: over it and then start backing in.
Speaker 4: And at the center of this story was this highly
Speaker 4: alarming video which showed two young white studio assistants busily
Speaker 4: working on and around a large canvas by First Nations
Speaker 4: artists yaraging young and then and one of the young
Speaker 4: white women, the art center manager, Rosie Palmer, is seen
Speaker 4: vigorously applying paint to the canvas in large circular shapes
Speaker 4: or rock holes, and discussing the composition of the work,
Speaker 4: for example, asking could it do with another rock hole there?
Speaker 4: Or is that going to be too circular? Do have
Speaker 4: another rock?
Speaker 2: Sir?
Speaker 1: What? Probably good?
Speaker 4: The artist is also there, you can see her out
Speaker 4: of frame. Nonetheless, this video seemed to be irrefutable proof
Speaker 4: that white studio assistants were overstepping their role. We later
Speaker 4: learned that a private art dealer and rival of the
Speaker 4: Apy Art Center collective had paid an Indigenous man thousand
Speaker 4: dollars for that video. So it cast out on the
Speaker 4: success of this collective and the integrity of this collective.
Speaker 4: The story became more or less a campaign against the collective,
Speaker 4: and more than seventy five stories followed, so it was
Speaker 4: really it became the art scandal of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: Five indigenous artists and six former studio employees had alleged
Speaker 3: that there had been white interference.
Speaker 4: Allegations of quote, white hands on black art.
Speaker 2: The allegations which are the is that white studio staff
Speaker 2: that literally helped paint some of the works themselves to
Speaker 2: actually make them more appealing to white bars as a
Speaker 2: crazy amount of focus for any newspaper to give a story,
Speaker 2: let alone an art story. What was the content of
Speaker 2: those stories and tell me a bit more about the
Speaker 2: narrative that emerged from those stories.
Speaker 4: Yes, it was extraordinary and inordinate. The focus essentially was
Speaker 4: just bedding down these serious allegations that were being made
Speaker 4: about the Apy Arts Center collective that went beyond the video,
Speaker 4: and that alleged that white staff routinely were painting substantial
Speaker 4: parts of Indigenous artists' work, not just at Jolla Arts,
Speaker 4: which is where that video was taken, but also at
Speaker 4: the Adelaide headquarters of the Apy Art Center collective. There
Speaker 4: were also claims that of mismanagement by the ap Art
Speaker 4: Center collective and coercive control of Indigenous artists. Then there
Speaker 4: were stories about how these revelations had decimated the indigenous
Speaker 4: art market and they set off a chain reaction of
Speaker 4: investigations into the Apy Art Center collective.
Speaker 1: You've got to keep in mind that to just forge
Speaker 1: your head with the exhibition while all of these stories
Speaker 1: are happening, means that these stories would have been the
Speaker 1: story of the exhibition, not the story of those works,
Speaker 1: not the stories that the artists are wanting to tell.
Speaker 1: So the decisions were made to essentially halt the exhibition
Speaker 1: until some more clarity could be gained and then the
Speaker 1: calls for inquiries and things began, and the exhibition essentially
Speaker 1: lost its place in the schedule, and I was then
Speaker 1: sort of postponed indefinitely or at least into clarity around
Speaker 1: all of these inquiries and different reviews have been finished.
Speaker 2: After the break the investigations and what they meant for
Speaker 2: the ap Y Art Center collective. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: people watch the video that was published by The Australian
Speaker 2: and were shocked. What did you think when you saw it?
Speaker 1: People have their own ideas about what they think about
Speaker 1: abertinal art and how it should be done. But I
Speaker 1: would certainly label myself as a progressive in their space.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I want to see abatinal culture and progress and move
Speaker 1: and evolve, and I want Abortinal people to have all
Speaker 1: of the means that non Aboriginal people have in their
Speaker 1: space as well. So you I am very aware that
Speaker 1: white artists and in urban based appisal artists have studio
Speaker 1: assistants that do quite a bit of this sort of
Speaker 1: work for them. So the fact that desert artists are
Speaker 1: engaging in contemporary studio practice for me is not a
Speaker 1: shock at all, and I find it quite exciting the
Speaker 1: idea that desert artists are wanting to use all of
Speaker 1: the opportunities that are available to them to progress their painting.
Speaker 2: Right, because the claims are that this was interference in
Speaker 2: the making of this art. So how would you describe
Speaker 2: the way these artists used white assistance.
Speaker 1: There hasn't been a lot of direct involvement by I
Speaker 1: think white studio assistants in a lot of the works.
Speaker 1: There's some preparatory work, there's edging work, there's a bit
Speaker 1: of touching up of spilled things or untidy things. But
Speaker 1: this was probably one of the first instances where why
Speaker 1: studio assistants were directly assisting the artist. And it sounds
Speaker 1: really interesting when you say it like that, because these
Speaker 1: are people who are employed to assist in the studio,
Speaker 1: to assist these artists. So if not assisting them, what
Speaker 1: are they doing there? That didn't bother me at all,
Speaker 1: but it shocked and outraged a lot of people in
Speaker 1: the industry. But at the same time, it was really
Speaker 1: ignoring the artists. And you know, my conversations with the artists,
Speaker 1: with the managers of art centers, there was a real
Speaker 1: sense of frustration that nobody was listening to them through.
Speaker 2: It, Gabrielle, you said, the series of stories and the
Speaker 2: claims made in them went to a number of investigations.
Speaker 2: So what exactly unfolded?
Speaker 4: Within a week of The Australian's first story in April
Speaker 4: last year, the National Gallery of Australia launched an independent
Speaker 4: investigation into the collective, and this was headed by two
Speaker 4: prominent lawyers, whose team delivered a thirty four page report
Speaker 4: last August and found that the indigenous artists, without exception,
Speaker 4: had said that the paintings had been produced by them.
Speaker 4: The reviewers strongly rejected allegations that artists had engaged in
Speaker 4: cover ups or dishonest practice, saying those claims had no
Speaker 4: proper foundation. But the following month, in May last year,
Speaker 4: the South Australian government announced its own review into the
Speaker 4: management of the APY collective in partnership with the Northern
Speaker 4: Territory and federal governments.
Speaker 6: The South Australia and Territory governments have combined forces with
Speaker 6: the Commonwealth to launch an investigation into allegations of white
Speaker 6: people interfering with Indigenous art at the ap art Center Collective.
Speaker 4: There were also claims that the collective was not supporting
Speaker 4: a culturally safe, respectful and oropriate workplace for artists working
Speaker 4: on the Apy Lands, in the art centers there and
Speaker 4: also in the Adelaide studio. But this South Australian government
Speaker 4: appointed panel came back with no findings, and curiously, the
Speaker 4: panel did not deliver a written report. It did, however,
Speaker 4: refer the matter to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission
Speaker 4: and to the Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations,
Speaker 4: and after looking at all of that material, the hble
Speaker 4: C came to its findings that no breaches of consumer
Speaker 4: law had been committed.
Speaker 2: So as we sit here, there haven't been any findings
Speaker 2: of wrongdoing against the collective.
Speaker 4: No, that's absolutely right, Daniel. After more than a year
Speaker 4: and after intensive investigations and scrutiny of this organization, nothing
Speaker 4: has come back.
Speaker 2: Tell us what the swath of investigations, what kind of
Speaker 2: impact I've had for the APY Collective.
Speaker 4: Just before I go into that, I want to quote
Speaker 4: one of the ap y Lands artists, Selling Scales, who
Speaker 4: said last year that the APY Collective was the most
Speaker 4: scrutinized arts organization in the country and it certainly did
Speaker 4: start to feel like that it's been a terrible time
Speaker 4: for the collective and the whole saga wasn't great for
Speaker 4: the indigenous art industry because in a sense, the whole
Speaker 4: industry was under a cloud and art collectors were ringing
Speaker 4: up the art centers on the Apy Lands and making,
Speaker 4: you know, wanting documentation to prove that their works were authentic,
Speaker 4: and so forth. The organization lost its station, federal funding,
Speaker 4: its corporate sponsors pulled out. Sky Omara, the general manager
Speaker 4: of the Apy Art Collective, told me, you know, they
Speaker 4: were good, intelligent, talented women with integrity and an amazing
Speaker 4: work ethic, and they were almost destroyed by these untrue stories.
Speaker 4: The collective has managed to stay open though, through the
Speaker 4: income of sales. Skyromara mentioned that sales increased last year
Speaker 4: by three hundred thousand dollars and she's still hopeful that
Speaker 4: the Nauapulka exhibition will go ahead someday as planned at
Speaker 4: the National Gallery of Australia and that the paintings will
Speaker 4: be bought by the gallery as as had also been planned.
Speaker 2: Gabriella, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4: Thanks Bruce.
Speaker 2: She left the gallery after the exhibition was put on
Speaker 2: ice did this Saga have any role to play in
Speaker 2: your leaving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, seeing this exhibition developed
Speaker 1: by community, seeing this incredible celebration of who they are,
Speaker 1: of their stories, of their art, and of themselves and
Speaker 1: each other, Seeing that not only postponed by the gallery,
Speaker 1: but played politic with so big in the media, and
Speaker 1: it was a real gut wrenching feeling to not only
Speaker 1: see that happen, but to have to talk to artists
Speaker 1: about why that's happening. You know, that's all the opposite
Speaker 1: of the things that I've dedicated my life to to
Speaker 1: celebrating culture, to sharing it, to sharing the joy of
Speaker 1: aberteinbal art and life that was kind of ripped away
Speaker 1: through a lot of that process. So absolutely that has
Speaker 1: some bearing on departing the gallery.
Speaker 2: What will happen to the Apy exhibition now?
Speaker 1: Brute? The Naurapook exhibition has always been owned by the community,
Speaker 1: by the artists. As I understand, they are talking to
Speaker 1: a few international partners about showing the exhibition in international museums.
Speaker 1: And one of the really exciting things that tap through
Speaker 1: that is that there are curators and spaces in places
Speaker 1: like the US who are really engaged with things like
Speaker 1: critical race theory, but also have experience of Murdoch media
Speaker 1: as well, so they are really keen to examine some
Speaker 1: of the pieces of this exhibition and of the coverage
Speaker 1: of this poul Saga through I think a really mature lens.
Speaker 1: So I think that's quite exciting that not only the
Speaker 1: art will be celebrated, but there will be a level
Speaker 1: of critical discourse around desert artists engaging in contemporary studio practice,
Speaker 1: around the intervention of the media into Indigenous art and
Speaker 1: art centers and Indigenous owned businesses, and an opportunity for
Speaker 1: community to present their story through these spaces that I
Speaker 1: think perhaps if it is shown in Australia, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure it will be shown in Australia at some point,
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversation will center around the media
Speaker 1: fewer or rather than the artworks. So I hope that
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity for some balance between those things, but
Speaker 1: also for a really mature critical discussion around what's happening
Speaker 1: and what has happened.
Speaker 2: Well, it might be the case of being one of
Speaker 2: those things that we don't know what we've got until
Speaker 2: it's gone. Bruce, thank you so much for your time
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. You're very welcome. Also in the years today,
Speaker 2: protesters have displayed portraits of a twenty three year old
Speaker 2: asylum seeker who died on Wednesday after sitting himself on
Speaker 2: fire outside the Department of Home Affairs office in Malbourne. Manow,
Speaker 2: Younger Liningndham have been part of an active protest urging
Speaker 2: the Labour government to give permanent visas to asylum seekers
Speaker 2: stuck in Limbo since arriving by boat. Monow himself has
Speaker 2: spent more than eleven years in Australia on temporary bridging visas,
Speaker 2: and Senator Jackie Lamby says she will no longer run
Speaker 2: state candidates and Tasmanian politics. The announcement comes after two
Speaker 2: stadiumps We're kicked out of her namesake party, the Jackie
Speaker 2: Lamby Network and will now continue on as independents. Seven
Speaker 2: Am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and the
Speaker 2: Saturday paper. Is produced by Shane Anderson, Zultan Fecho and
Speaker 2: Zaia Tangra. Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow. We are
Speaker 2: edited by Chris Dangate and Sarah McPhee. Eric Jensen is
Speaker 2: our editor in chief. Our mixer is Travis Evans. Our
Speaker 2: theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of
Speaker 2: envelope BOARDY seven Am was hosted by Ruby Jones and myself,
Speaker 2: Daniel James. See you next week.