1 00:00:04,170 --> 00:00:06,900 Adam Lang: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Adam 2 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:10,799 Adam Lang: Lang. Small business is so incredibly important to the Australian 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,849 Adam Lang: economy, contributing billions of dollars every year and providing employment 4 00:00:14,850 --> 00:00:17,910 Adam Lang: to so many, but it's been a tough few years 5 00:00:17,910 --> 00:00:21,209 Adam Lang: for small to medium size enterprises, better known as SMEs. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,900 Adam Lang: From the uncertainty of the pandemic, right through to the 7 00:00:24,930 --> 00:00:28,710 Adam Lang: extreme shortage of workers and rising costs, the challenges are 8 00:00:28,710 --> 00:00:32,340 Adam Lang: significant. So how do small business owners cope? And more 9 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:35,159 Adam Lang: than that, how do they keep growing when conditions are 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:40,680 Adam Lang: pretty tough? Paul Presland is ANZ's General Manager, Small Business. Paul, welcome 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,460 Adam Lang: to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:44,100 Paul Presland: Good day, Adam. Great to be with you and looking 13 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:44,341 Paul Presland: forward to the chat today. 14 00:00:44,341 --> 00:00:49,350 Adam Lang: Me too. Thanks again for joining us. So if the pandemic 15 00:00:49,409 --> 00:00:52,860 Adam Lang: has shown us anything, it's that businesses need to be 16 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:56,730 Adam Lang: prepared for the unexpected. How do they do that financially? 17 00:00:56,730 --> 00:01:00,029 Adam Lang: A pandemic is pretty much a worst- case scenario. You 18 00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:02,640 Adam Lang: get other challenges, but this has been a severe one. 19 00:01:02,970 --> 00:01:04,620 Adam Lang: How do they prepare financially? 20 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:07,950 Paul Presland: I think it's always a challenge because if you're running 21 00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:10,860 Paul Presland: a small business, it can be a lonely, lonely existence. 22 00:01:10,860 --> 00:01:14,130 Paul Presland: And so those that have been really successful are those 23 00:01:14,130 --> 00:01:17,100 Paul Presland: that have thought about probably four key things in my 24 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:19,950 Paul Presland: opinion. One is obviously making the most of the available 25 00:01:19,950 --> 00:01:23,819 Paul Presland: government support, and we saw that play out through the various stages 26 00:01:23,819 --> 00:01:28,440 Paul Presland: of the lockdowns, understanding your risk, having a plan and 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,220 Paul Presland: planning ahead, and then obviously talking to your financial provider, 28 00:01:32,220 --> 00:01:35,880 Paul Presland: talking to your bank, and engaging them in the narrative in terms of 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,429 Paul Presland: what's happening and what you are seeing and what help you need. 30 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:39,360 Paul Presland: Really important. 31 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,530 Adam Lang: I suppose that solitary nature of the challenges too, even 32 00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:46,800 Adam Lang: if you're not technically working alone, it can feel very 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,040 Adam Lang: lonely. And as you mentioned, knowing who to call and 34 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,070 Adam Lang: that you should call to get some help is just 35 00:01:53,070 --> 00:01:55,529 Adam Lang: such an important thing to do. Did you find your 36 00:01:55,530 --> 00:01:57,480 Adam Lang: customers doing that during the pandemic? 37 00:01:57,870 --> 00:02:01,140 Paul Presland: I think those that were confident enough to have that 38 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:06,390 Paul Presland: conversation were ones that fared better than those that didn't. And I think what was 39 00:02:06,390 --> 00:02:08,970 Paul Presland: really important, we found that it was a good opportunity 40 00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:11,760 Paul Presland: for us to reach out to our customer base and 41 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,610 Paul Presland: talk in a more informed way about that. And I 42 00:02:14,610 --> 00:02:17,910 Paul Presland: think those customers that had those conversations are certainly... This 43 00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:20,580 Paul Presland: is the time to engage your banker and to tell them 44 00:02:20,669 --> 00:02:23,340 Paul Presland: what's happening and what help you need. Because again, you 45 00:02:23,340 --> 00:02:25,530 Paul Presland: can come up with a solution and obviously have a 46 00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:27,960 Paul Presland: partner who can help you build the way ahead. I 47 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,110 Paul Presland: think one of the things is how do you have 48 00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:34,200 Paul Presland: that conversation so that it's a trusted relationship? And I 49 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,419 Paul Presland: think that's the role that many banks could play in 50 00:02:36,419 --> 00:02:37,350 Paul Presland: this kind of environment. 51 00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:40,230 Adam Lang: So did you and your team at ANZ take that 52 00:02:40,230 --> 00:02:44,790 Adam Lang: proactive approach during COVID and even now? Making contact, initiating 53 00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:45,840 Adam Lang: contact with your customers? 54 00:02:46,169 --> 00:02:50,700 Paul Presland: Yes, absolutely. There is so much data floating around as everyone talks 55 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:53,190 Paul Presland: about that right now. And it's not the case of being big 56 00:02:53,190 --> 00:02:56,130 Paul Presland: brother, but taking the opportunity to talk regularly to customers 57 00:02:56,130 --> 00:02:59,220 Paul Presland: about what's happening in their world, in their industry or 58 00:02:59,550 --> 00:03:02,520 Paul Presland: what's happening in terms of the change in their circumstances. 59 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,370 Paul Presland: So we made a particular effort to double down on 60 00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:08,639 Paul Presland: those interactions with customers. And again, as I said, those 61 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,550 Paul Presland: customers that you end up having conversations with, you can 62 00:03:11,550 --> 00:03:14,310 Paul Presland: then talk about what the solutions are. Is it debt 63 00:03:14,310 --> 00:03:17,070 Paul Presland: deferral or is it restructuring their finances or is it 64 00:03:17,700 --> 00:03:21,030 Paul Presland: cashflow assistance? What are the things that you need in order to help get 65 00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:25,590 Paul Presland: through? And every industry, and frankly in every geography, we 66 00:03:25,650 --> 00:03:28,320 Paul Presland: had multiple- speeds economies across the country as you well 67 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,929 Paul Presland: know. And so I think that's been the interesting challenge 68 00:03:30,930 --> 00:03:33,720 Paul Presland: for customers as well. And again, getting those conversations happening 69 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,400 Paul Presland: has been really, really helpful, I think. 70 00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:40,020 Adam Lang: Making that first point of contact can be so important. 71 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,280 Adam Lang: And so if you come down to those older expressions 72 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,270 Adam Lang: like a rainy day fund, saving money or having things 73 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:51,090 Adam Lang: stocked away, just in case. How much of a rainy 74 00:03:51,090 --> 00:03:54,210 Adam Lang: day fund should businesses have? Is it based on being 75 00:03:54,210 --> 00:03:57,360 Adam Lang: able to fund up your operations for a certain amount 76 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,120 Adam Lang: of time without known revenue coming in? Is that the 77 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,680 Adam Lang: sort of thing businesses should be looking at? 78 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,150 Paul Presland: I guess so. What I would say is, when you 79 00:04:06,150 --> 00:04:09,180 Paul Presland: are thinking about, " I need extra funds," be really clear 80 00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:11,970 Paul Presland: on why you need them. Do you need them to 81 00:04:11,970 --> 00:04:15,540 Paul Presland: fund your cashflow? Do you need them to buy stock? Is 82 00:04:15,540 --> 00:04:18,179 Paul Presland: it because your creditors are slow? What's the reason or 83 00:04:18,180 --> 00:04:21,270 Paul Presland: rationale behind that? Or is it to take advantage of 84 00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:24,539 Paul Presland: opportunity? First, figure out why you need the money and 85 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:26,850 Paul Presland: then you can start talking about that. The answer is 86 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:29,550 Paul Presland: not always finance. It might be bringing in a partner 87 00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:33,060 Paul Presland: into your business. It might be negotiating longer credit terms 88 00:04:33,060 --> 00:04:36,539 Paul Presland: with your suppliers. It might be increasing your access to 89 00:04:36,540 --> 00:04:40,109 Paul Presland: the marketplace, without doing too much of a sell. One 90 00:04:40,110 --> 00:04:42,810 Paul Presland: of the things that we found really useful for our customers, 91 00:04:42,930 --> 00:04:45,719 Paul Presland: and again we can help point customers to this, we've 92 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,710 Paul Presland: got a financially- ready business hub, which has got a break- 93 00:04:49,740 --> 00:04:54,120 Paul Presland: even calculator, a cashflow forecast. So you can know how 94 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,710 Paul Presland: much you really need when you want to have a 95 00:04:55,710 --> 00:04:57,539 Paul Presland: play around with those sort of things. We've found are 96 00:04:57,750 --> 00:04:58,380 Paul Presland: very helpful. 97 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:00,780 Adam Lang: Stay with me Paul, we'll be back in a minute. 98 00:05:07,020 --> 00:05:10,860 Adam Lang: I'm speaking to Paul Presland, ANZ's General Manager, Small Business. 99 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:14,310 Adam Lang: In terms of the longer term effects and some of 100 00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:17,010 Adam Lang: those are still playing out. What do you think or 101 00:05:17,010 --> 00:05:19,200 Adam Lang: what are you seeing as some of the longer term effects 102 00:05:19,230 --> 00:05:22,799 Adam Lang: of the pandemic on small businesses in Australia? You mentioned multi- 103 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,260 Adam Lang: speed before, some standing better than others. 104 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:29,219 Paul Presland: Oh yes, I think so. The employment question's an interesting one. 105 00:05:29,310 --> 00:05:32,730 Paul Presland: Unemployment rate is low, but under employment is high. And 106 00:05:32,730 --> 00:05:36,690 Paul Presland: yet we know that supply chain is difficult and we 107 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:41,070 Paul Presland: know that there's plenty of opportunities in hospitality. If anyone's 108 00:05:41,070 --> 00:05:43,950 Paul Presland: out there buying a coffee and whichever capital city you're 109 00:05:43,950 --> 00:05:47,310 Paul Presland: in, you'll see signs up for baristas and the likes. 110 00:05:47,310 --> 00:05:51,270 Paul Presland: So the access to talent and employment and a good workforce 111 00:05:51,270 --> 00:05:55,080 Paul Presland: is a real challenge, particularly in restaurants and hospitality. And 112 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,989 Paul Presland: the other pieces is around supply chain. I live in 113 00:05:57,990 --> 00:06:01,770 Paul Presland: Melbourne and the note went out the other day that apparently dim sims are 114 00:06:01,770 --> 00:06:05,969 Paul Presland: in short supply because again, they can't get access to 115 00:06:05,970 --> 00:06:09,359 Paul Presland: the stock to get it moving along. So there's all 116 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,510 Paul Presland: sorts of pieces playing out. And as you say, there 117 00:06:12,510 --> 00:06:15,359 Paul Presland: are different speeds. There over in the West, things are 118 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,789 Paul Presland: a bit stronger. And so I think we're starting to 119 00:06:17,790 --> 00:06:20,640 Paul Presland: see the larger East Coast cities starting to come back 120 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:21,180 Paul Presland: as well now. 121 00:06:21,450 --> 00:06:26,460 Adam Lang: Right. Now, sadly not all businesses made it. And so 122 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,760 Adam Lang: each one of those can be an incredibly emotional and 123 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,289 Adam Lang: stressful story for those businesses involved. Not every business succeeds 124 00:06:34,290 --> 00:06:38,940 Adam Lang: in normal circumstances as well, but did the pandemic just 125 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:39,810 Adam Lang: speed that up? 126 00:06:40,260 --> 00:06:45,960 Paul Presland: It's interesting. We actually found, not really. It sounds a 127 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,650 Paul Presland: terrible thing to say, but businesses that were going to fail probably did 128 00:06:49,650 --> 00:06:54,060 Paul Presland: fail. And I think that those that accessed the support that that 129 00:06:54,060 --> 00:06:57,539 Paul Presland: was available to them, actually managed to either muscle their 130 00:06:57,540 --> 00:07:01,200 Paul Presland: operations or shore up things along the way. And I 131 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,810 Paul Presland: mentioned before, hospitality. I think that was an interesting dynamic, 132 00:07:03,810 --> 00:07:07,440 Paul Presland: how that moved to the suburbs, rather than the CBD. 133 00:07:07,529 --> 00:07:09,720 Paul Presland: If you're in the CBDs of Melbourne or Sydney in 134 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,080 Paul Presland: particular, obviously that's a much different narrative. But I think 135 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:16,200 Paul Presland: overall, we've actually seen our customer base hold up pretty 136 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,250 Paul Presland: well, surprisingly. And I think that's a factor of our customers really knowing their 137 00:07:20,250 --> 00:07:23,940 Paul Presland: business and understanding those things. I think that's been quite dynamic. 138 00:07:24,690 --> 00:07:29,280 Adam Lang: So in terms of the dynamic, looking ahead, we talked 139 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,190 Adam Lang: earlier about the challenges small to medium size enterprises are 140 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:36,630 Adam Lang: facing now, including labor shortages, inflationary pressures, supply chain issues, 141 00:07:36,630 --> 00:07:39,270 Adam Lang: and they're just some of them. Are you sensing amongst 142 00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:43,980 Adam Lang: your customers an anxiety in the small business community now? 143 00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:47,460 Adam Lang: They just don't know how their forward period is going 144 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:49,710 Adam Lang: to look and how this is all going to play out? 145 00:07:50,190 --> 00:07:55,500 Paul Presland: I think customers are cautious. I think the interest rate cycle 146 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:59,010 Paul Presland: changing is made customers perhaps be a little bit more 147 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,650 Paul Presland: thoughtful in terms of before they wade in to do 148 00:08:01,650 --> 00:08:04,710 Paul Presland: a big investment, buy a property rather than rent it, 149 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:09,810 Paul Presland: buy some more stock and equipment. We're seeing that customers' 150 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:14,430 Paul Presland: use of their overdraft facilities or in fact their cash 151 00:08:14,430 --> 00:08:18,030 Paul Presland: reserves are still holding up pretty strongly and overdraft facility 152 00:08:18,030 --> 00:08:21,480 Paul Presland: usage is lower than it normally would've been. And our 153 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,660 Paul Presland: overall sense when talking to customers is more about, " We're 154 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:27,870 Paul Presland: okay. Things are going okay, but we're not ready to 155 00:08:27,870 --> 00:08:29,970 Paul Presland: step in and make a bigger commitment right at the 156 00:08:29,970 --> 00:08:32,820 Paul Presland: moment until we see how things play out." And I guess 157 00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:36,090 Paul Presland: this is part of what's going to happen with rates 158 00:08:36,090 --> 00:08:38,489 Paul Presland: and therefore is it giving me the confidence there? So you 159 00:08:38,490 --> 00:08:40,350 Paul Presland: see a lot of data on that in terms of 160 00:08:40,350 --> 00:08:43,559 Paul Presland: what consumer confidence looks like, but spending is still pretty 161 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,929 Paul Presland: high. So it's a little bit choppy at the moment. 162 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:49,890 Adam Lang: Okay. So within that choppiness, and I mentioned some of 163 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:52,319 Adam Lang: the things that people might feel cautious about, but are 164 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,260 Adam Lang: you starting to see some things that people being excited 165 00:08:55,260 --> 00:08:58,350 Adam Lang: about? Like people starting to have a go, like this 166 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:01,740 Adam Lang: changing period can bring out some of the very best 167 00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:02,430 Adam Lang: in businesses. 168 00:09:02,730 --> 00:09:08,070 Paul Presland: It's so true. There are a raft of opportunities for 169 00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:11,190 Paul Presland: customers to take advantage of. As I said before, it's either 170 00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:14,939 Paul Presland: purchasing their property where they run their business from or 171 00:09:14,940 --> 00:09:18,270 Paul Presland: bringing it together or consolidating or expansion. We're starting to 172 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:21,929 Paul Presland: see those customers that have got a plan, that are 173 00:09:21,929 --> 00:09:25,380 Paul Presland: organized, that understand, as I said before, their cashflow really 174 00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:30,059 Paul Presland: well, they're making strategic choices in terms of, how can 175 00:09:30,059 --> 00:09:32,250 Paul Presland: they take advantage of this point in the cycle? And 176 00:09:32,250 --> 00:09:34,410 Paul Presland: I think you see that no matter what it is, 177 00:09:34,410 --> 00:09:38,850 Paul Presland: but I think it's exacerbated by this unique period in 178 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:41,760 Paul Presland: history that we've just been through, obviously. So it is 179 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:42,300 Paul Presland: playing out. 180 00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:46,469 Adam Lang: In terms of having a plan, you mentioned that there 181 00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:51,390 Adam Lang: and people, I guess, focusing on their plan and looking 182 00:09:51,390 --> 00:09:56,040 Adam Lang: ahead and financial literacy. Financial literacy is something that we 183 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,470 Adam Lang: hear a lot about in terms of education of children, 184 00:09:58,470 --> 00:10:02,939 Adam Lang: businesses, so on. Are you sensing that customers are getting better 185 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:07,350 Adam Lang: at having a plan and including financial literacy in their operations? 186 00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:11,370 Paul Presland: Yes, I think so. Look, as an industry, banking's got 187 00:10:11,370 --> 00:10:14,280 Paul Presland: a responsibility to also step into that space as well. 188 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,610 Paul Presland: And so that's something that we've been really focused on, 189 00:10:17,850 --> 00:10:21,959 Paul Presland: engaging our customers to have more conversations around, " These are 190 00:10:22,350 --> 00:10:24,329 Paul Presland: the things that you should be thinking about. These are 191 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:27,179 Paul Presland: the tools that are available to you." And most small 192 00:10:27,179 --> 00:10:29,400 Paul Presland: businesses, as I said before, it can be a lonely 193 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,010 Paul Presland: existence. So who do you speak to? You might not 194 00:10:32,010 --> 00:10:34,650 Paul Presland: necessarily be confident enough to speak to your bank because 195 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:37,620 Paul Presland: they might want something from you, rather than the fact 196 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,530 Paul Presland: that having that engaging conversation. You go to the government 197 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:44,400 Paul Presland: website and you'll talk to friends and family, but accessing 198 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,650 Paul Presland: those sort of resources can be really helpful for you 199 00:10:46,650 --> 00:10:50,040 Paul Presland: in terms of thinking that through, being financially ready for 200 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,250 Paul Presland: the different periods in the cycle so you can invest 201 00:10:53,790 --> 00:10:56,670 Paul Presland: or think through any of those challenges moving forward. I 202 00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:59,250 Paul Presland: talked about that financially- ready hub that we have and 203 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,439 Paul Presland: example is there are articles on cybersecurity. That's the big 204 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,809 Paul Presland: thing right now. We've a lot of cybersecurity issues in 205 00:11:07,380 --> 00:11:09,990 Paul Presland: recent weeks and months. How do you protect yourself in 206 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:13,679 Paul Presland: that kind of environment? What are you doing about future business 207 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,910 Paul Presland: planning? Again, I probably wouldn't count on this, but cashflow 208 00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:22,830 Paul Presland: forecasting is super important. Many customers, if they think through around, " 209 00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:26,189 Paul Presland: I sold something, I made a profit. All as good 210 00:11:26,190 --> 00:11:30,300 Paul Presland: to go." But understanding how the cashflow cycle works is something 211 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:33,569 Paul Presland: that when it comes to business failure, that's usually where 212 00:11:33,870 --> 00:11:36,900 Paul Presland: people get things wrong. It's not that they run out 213 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:38,940 Paul Presland: of ideas or making profit, but they run out of 214 00:11:38,940 --> 00:11:42,090 Paul Presland: cashflow. And that's why it's so important to have those conversations. 215 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,960 Adam Lang: And Paul, you see across the data in your business, 216 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,719 Adam Lang: so much in the business community. But a question perhaps 217 00:11:49,050 --> 00:11:52,589 Adam Lang: on you and your work as ANZ's General Manager, Small 218 00:11:52,590 --> 00:11:55,980 Adam Lang: Business, what are you most excited about in the year ahead? 219 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,260 Paul Presland: It's interesting. As I said before, I think small business is such an exciting 220 00:12:01,260 --> 00:12:03,480 Paul Presland: part of the economy. It's the engine room of the 221 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,280 Paul Presland: economy and there are so many great conversations with customers. And 222 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,469 Paul Presland: I think getting out and talking to customers, I think 223 00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:14,400 Paul Presland: the last few years we're used to talking through a 224 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,619 Paul Presland: computer to one another and all those other sort of 225 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:19,589 Paul Presland: things, getting out and talking to customers about how they 226 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:22,890 Paul Presland: are thinking about great ideas. And there are so many entrepreneurs 227 00:12:22,890 --> 00:12:26,880 Paul Presland: out there who've got so many great plans and how 228 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,830 Paul Presland: can we work to assist them and help them to 229 00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:31,650 Paul Presland: grow? So that's what I'm really excited about. I think 230 00:12:31,710 --> 00:12:34,830 Paul Presland: actually, the Australian economy has held up really well and 231 00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:38,130 Paul Presland: as we can see with the pressure on interest rates, 232 00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:42,900 Paul Presland: but I think it's just a great chance for people 233 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:45,120 Paul Presland: to make something of themselves and actually to grow that 234 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,329 Paul Presland: part of the business and the economy. So for me, getting 235 00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:50,760 Paul Presland: out and having those conversations with customers, that's what myself and my team are really focused on in 236 00:12:53,070 --> 00:12:54,000 Paul Presland: the next little while. 237 00:12:54,179 --> 00:12:57,690 Adam Lang: Paul, that's great advice. Look after your cashflow and work 238 00:12:57,690 --> 00:12:58,979 Adam Lang: out where you can have a go. 239 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:00,120 Paul Presland: That's it. 240 00:13:00,809 --> 00:13:03,030 Adam Lang: Paul, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed. 241 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:04,260 Paul Presland: Thanks again. 242 00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:09,209 Adam Lang: That was Paul Presland, ANZ's General Manager, Small Business. This is 243 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:11,969 Adam Lang: the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us every morning 244 00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:14,190 Adam Lang: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most 245 00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:17,730 Adam Lang: popular business podcast. I'm Adam Lang. Enjoy your day.