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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Britney Saunders and welcome to Big Business, the

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Speaker 1: place where business is far from boring. And today I'm

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Speaker 1: recording on gaddigel Land. Now I somehow manage to build

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Speaker 1: an empire from the garage underneath my house, and I'm

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Speaker 1: here to share it all with you, from the wins,

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Speaker 1: the mistakes, the challenging times and the funny moments in between. So,

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Speaker 1: whether you're in business already, perhaps you're not in the

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Speaker 1: game at all, Maybe you're just looking for some inspo,

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Speaker 1: or you simply just want to hear the tea, this

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Speaker 1: is the podcast for you. Coming up on today's episode,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by a true powerhouse in media and entertainment,

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Speaker 1: Gemma O'Neill. With more than twenty five years of experience

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Speaker 1: across Australia, the US, the UK and New Zealand, Jemma

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Speaker 1: has built a career that spans talent management, media leadership

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Speaker 1: and lifestyle branding. She's currently the CEO of Three Birds

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Speaker 1: Renovations and the co founder of the women's lifestyle brand

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Speaker 1: Besties with her bestie Jackie o. Jemma's career foundations are

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Speaker 1: as impressive as they come. Nearly a decade working alongside

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Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman at Blossom Films, shaping Hollywood projects behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: She's also the woman behind one of the most significant

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Speaker 1: talent deals in Australian media, negotiating Jackie Oh's ten year,

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Speaker 1: multimillion dollar contract, and she's passionate about using her expertise

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Speaker 1: to build cultural movements that empower women through storytelling and community. Gemma,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Big Business.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's good to see you again. I know your podcast

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Speaker 1: a few weeks back where.

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Speaker 2: You were on jack and My Jackie O is my

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Speaker 2: best friend and we have a podcast, Ever Her Best Life,

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Speaker 2: and you came on and you really gave us a

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Speaker 2: lot to think about. You inspired us, You really gave

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Speaker 2: us a kick up the bomb in terms of improving

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Speaker 2: our business, and we needed it and we're very thankful.

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Speaker 1: Yes, everyone needs to go and listen to that episode.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't already, just look up Besties wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your pods. Yeah, and you will find our episode. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but I'm glad to have you on. You have one

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Speaker 1: of the most impressive and extensive careers and that's what

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Speaker 1: I want to hear all about today. You're also known

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Speaker 1: for your powerful negotiations and being a woman in business

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Speaker 1: and in leadership and knowing you're worth and I want

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Speaker 1: to get to all that as well. Like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like we have a lot to talk about great, but

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Speaker 1: I think to paint the picture, we need to hear

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Speaker 1: about you, what you're currently doing, and also like where

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Speaker 1: it all began, because once upon a time you worked

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Speaker 1: for Nicole Kidman.

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Speaker 2: I did. Yeah, back in my twenties, yeap, I absolutely did.

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Speaker 2: Now I am a CEO of a business called Three

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Speaker 2: Birds Renovations. I'm also co founder of Besties with Jackie Yes.

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Speaker 2: And I have traditionally been in media and entertainment for

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Speaker 2: my entire career. Previously, I started in radio when I

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Speaker 2: was fourteen. I was a receptionist, so fourteen Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was fourteen and nine months when I worked in radio.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny when I think of a fourteen and

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Speaker 1: nine months I think of me going to macas Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to work in race.

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Speaker 2: I know, doesn't that say a lot? But see, I've

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Speaker 2: already discovered there's a lot of similarities between you and I.

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Speaker 2: And I said this to you previously about how we

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Speaker 2: approach business and how we approach life with such tenacity

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Speaker 2: and can't be held back type thing. And I think

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Speaker 2: I was just determined from a young age to do

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Speaker 2: something that I was passionate about. And for some reason,

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Speaker 2: I have no idea why, but I was really interested

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Speaker 2: in radio and so never wanted to be on the

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Speaker 2: radio behind the scenes. Yeah, And so I started working

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Speaker 2: in radio. Yeah, when I was fourteen. I did finish

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Speaker 2: high school, and then I went into radio full time

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Speaker 2: and became a producer and worked my way out from there.

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Speaker 2: So I actually worked in radio for quite some time,

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Speaker 2: both here in Australia and in the UK. I went

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Speaker 2: to London and worked in a network over there too,

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Speaker 2: and yes, along the way, I then worked for Nicole Kidman.

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Speaker 2: Nick is a very differend of mine and without doubt,

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Speaker 2: one of the best humans there is around. We worked

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Speaker 2: together for I want to say, about eight years.

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Speaker 1: I think that come about.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting. Actually, it came about through a mutual friend,

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Speaker 2: a very dear mutual friend of both Nick's and mine,

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Speaker 2: a lady called Wendy. She's very important to both Nick

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Speaker 2: and I and she kind of sensed that we would

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Speaker 2: be a good pair together. And basically I had met

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Speaker 2: Nick a number of times from her coming into the

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Speaker 2: radio show and always just thought she was awesome. And

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Speaker 2: I guess that kind of was the beginning. And so

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Speaker 2: then we kind of had a bit of a familiarity

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Speaker 2: with each other. And then it just so happened that

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Speaker 2: Nick was looking for someone to kind of join her

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Speaker 2: team and live in the US, and Wendy suggested me.

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Speaker 2: And at that point I was living in London.

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Speaker 1: Actually, how old are you at that point?

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Speaker 2: I think I was twenty two, right, yeah, yes, it's

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Speaker 2: so young. Yeah, yea about twenty two, maybe twenty three

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Speaker 2: and yeah, And so basically began a chapter of my

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Speaker 2: life where I was primarily in the US, but we

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Speaker 2: moved around a lot. And I always say this that

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Speaker 2: she's the greatest person and she taught me so much.

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Speaker 2: Like in the I personally believe that your twenties are

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Speaker 2: really formative years, like they set you up for the

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Speaker 2: next few decades in my opinion, And it also is

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Speaker 2: when you're discovering who you are, what your values are, like,

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Speaker 2: what's important to you, what you stand for, and just

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Speaker 2: all of those big life questions. Yes, and I just

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Speaker 2: feel now like she I always say this to her

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Speaker 2: that She was like my angel that came out of

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Speaker 2: nowhere because she had shaped me so much into who

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Speaker 2: I am as a person now, both in terms of

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Speaker 2: her work ethic, the type of person she is, her loyalty,

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Speaker 2: her kindness, like all of it. And I really was

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Speaker 2: like a sponge. And so I really think that without doubt,

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Speaker 2: not think I know that that period of time set

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Speaker 2: me up for my life.

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Speaker 1: Your advice be to people, especially women who are in

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Speaker 1: their twenties, because I feel like your twenties, yes, I

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent agree, they're like your most formative years.

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Speaker 1: Like you learn so many lessons in your twenties, and

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Speaker 1: you think that you know everything in your twenties, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you think you have to work oud and then like

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Speaker 1: you go into your thirties and you're like, actually, I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what I was doing, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's so difficult, especially you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're going through school, like there's so much pressure for

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Speaker 1: you to work out what you want to do for

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Speaker 1: the rest.

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Speaker 2: Of your life.

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Speaker 1: When you're seventeen, when you're like kind of maybe not

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Speaker 1: old enough to know yet, and then you go into

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Speaker 1: your twenties and I feel like it can be a

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Speaker 1: really confusing time for a lot of young people because

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Speaker 1: it's like figure out your life and what you want

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Speaker 1: to do. But also I feel like that's a time

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Speaker 1: where you have the opportunity to kind of try things out.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree. And the weird thing is is that

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Speaker 2: for me with my life, I became so determined, so focused,

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Speaker 2: had a really strong career lens I guess focused. But

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Speaker 2: on top of that, I also put all this pressure

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Speaker 2: on myself. I bought my first home when I think

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Speaker 2: when I was twenty three, well, and I did things

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Speaker 2: that were probably more adulty earlier than on reflection I

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Speaker 2: think I should have. You know, I don't think I

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Speaker 2: would stand by those decisions now later on because I

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Speaker 2: kind of not deprived myself of those the time to

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Speaker 2: fail to your point, but yeah, it felt like I

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Speaker 2: got old quick, like you know, don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 2: as later in life, I have been thankful for that

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Speaker 2: because it set me up for a career throughout my

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Speaker 2: thirties and forties that has been very beneficial and full

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Speaker 2: of joy and really supported what my purpose is. And

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Speaker 2: it's given me financial freedom to some extent, you know,

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Speaker 2: like to have a home, Like I'm very grateful for

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Speaker 2: those things, but I still didn't have the time to

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Speaker 2: make mistakes and fail. And I do kind of think

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Speaker 2: that I in some ways that set me up poorly

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Speaker 2: in terms of resilience and in terms of being a

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Speaker 2: particularly around my own businesses and taking everything. So personally,

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Speaker 2: I really lacked resilience up until recently because I didn't

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Speaker 2: spend my twenties like going, you know what, screw it,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do this, or I'm going to try

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Speaker 2: that and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, or

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go and live in Spain for a

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Speaker 2: year or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah has installed for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was almost too much on the treadmill. And

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Speaker 2: I guess that's would be my advice is I think

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Speaker 2: there's so much that comes from being still and stopping

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Speaker 2: and having the time to reflect on actually what fills

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Speaker 2: you up. It's not about what everyone else thinks, it's

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Speaker 2: not about your ego and having that true freedom to

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Speaker 2: explore what that could be in your twenties. That's what

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Speaker 2: I think people should be doing.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I love your comment as well

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Speaker 1: about just being a sponge in whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: you're doing. Yeah, you know, I employ a lot of

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Speaker 1: young women who all have different you know, goals and ambitions.

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Speaker 1: And I've noticed, especially like in this younger generation, those

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Speaker 1: early twenties, like there is a massive push for peace

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Speaker 1: wanting career growth. Right now ye're like whoa, Like hang

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Speaker 1: on a second, Like you've just started and you're twenty

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Speaker 1: three years old, Like you've got so much time. And

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Speaker 1: my advice in my position would be for people to

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Speaker 1: be a sponge if you're in something that you are enjoying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and learn everything that you can and soak it up

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Speaker 1: the same way that you did with Nicole, because it's

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Speaker 1: just priceless of stuff that you can learn off other people. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and be curious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, curiosity is everything, and equally learning from what you

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Speaker 2: observe that you don't want to be like that. I

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Speaker 2: learned just as much from environments and jobs over the

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Speaker 2: years where I had leaders that maybe I wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: aspired to be like, or I had saw situations, environments,

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Speaker 2: whatever that weren't necessarily how I would operate. But I

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Speaker 2: learned just as much from that because then when I

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Speaker 2: did get into seeing your leadership roles, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I went on to run radio networks, and I went

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Speaker 2: on to have very senior positions in media. I had

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Speaker 2: a much firmer underst standing of what not to do

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Speaker 2: as much as what to do. So I would definitely

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Speaker 2: agree with you. And you know, we've been conditioned now

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Speaker 2: to think that we want everything immediate, like that's.

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Speaker 1: What, that's what, like riding online tonight and it'll be

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Speaker 1: there tomorrow morning. Like we want the same in our careers.

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Speaker 1: We want it to happen now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're so impatient. I'm guilty of this too. I

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Speaker 2: find it stressful waiting a week now to watch the

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Speaker 2: next episode of the Summer. I turn pretty let alone.

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Speaker 1: I know the episodes at once.

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Speaker 2: Please, So I understand why in your twenties you're like,

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Speaker 2: I'm ambitious, I'm driven, Like I've been in this job

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Speaker 2: a year. I want a promotion and i want like this,

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Speaker 2: And that's great to have that. But I do think,

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Speaker 2: you know that that whole analogy of you don't just

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Speaker 2: get to the top of the mountain, because if you

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Speaker 2: don't go on the journey, if you don't climb the

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Speaker 2: mountain slowly, it's dangerous or you fall off. Yes, you know,

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Speaker 2: so I do think there is so much merit in

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Speaker 2: taking your time and not thinking that you know everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, speaking of you know, leadership, one thing that

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Speaker 1: you were saying before about like the type of leader

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Speaker 1: that you learned to be in ways that you thought,

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Speaker 1: maybe I don't want to be that kind of leader.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's shifting, you know, thinking back to

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Speaker 1: I don't know, thirty forty years ago, the way that

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Speaker 1: we approach leadership, because when I think of it in

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Speaker 1: the back in the day kind of sense, it was

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Speaker 1: like you started at the bottom and you worked your

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Speaker 1: way up in a company, and then you got to

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Speaker 1: the top, and then it was like, yeah, I'm at

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Speaker 1: the top kind of thing, and then maybe that was

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Speaker 1: the way that leadership would be. It would be like

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Speaker 1: I've worked all this way to get to this point.

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Speaker 1: Whereas now, like with the rise of all these like

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Speaker 1: young entrepreneurs and young leaders and managers. I'm just it

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Speaker 1: feels different.

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Speaker 2: It does feel different. First of all, I was I'm

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Speaker 2: forty two, so I just to so we know in timings,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't around in management forty years ago, King, But

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Speaker 2: I agree, it is completely different. I mean from when

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Speaker 2: I was fourteen and I started in media. It's compared

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Speaker 2: to now, it's vastly different, like in a whole heap

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Speaker 2: of ways. I think that certainly for women, might experience

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Speaker 2: has been very different now compared to what it was

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Speaker 2: in a workplace twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I think most women would say that.

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Speaker 2: And that's not just because of the way certain industries

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Speaker 2: maybe have been more male dominated. It's also been because

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Speaker 2: women haven't necessarily always had their voice.

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Speaker 1: Or stepped into their power.

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Speaker 2: And I think now over the last however, many generations,

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Speaker 2: women are learning more to speak up for what they

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Speaker 2: believe in, to know what their value is, and I

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Speaker 2: think those type of things have definitely helped now workplaces

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Speaker 2: be more forward, you know, more progressive in terms of

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Speaker 2: females and female leaders and that's something I'm very passionate about.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's also like the type of leadership

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Speaker 2: so yes, it was back in the day, this kind

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Speaker 2: of harsh, you know, aggressive type of leadership.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I feel like it's different. It's changing, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially with more women stepping into leadership, and the approach

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Speaker 1: is very different, absolutely, and female leaders are usual most

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Speaker 1: of the time, they bring a lot more emotional qualities

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Speaker 1: to a leadership role.

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Speaker 2: And that's what their stats show. And that's what I

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Speaker 2: think is fantastic, is because now we are seeing leaders

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Speaker 2: that are like empathetic kind like I certainly know I've

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Speaker 2: got many flaws, but I have tried very hard for

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Speaker 2: my entire career to be a leader that really leans

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Speaker 2: into being compassionate, Like I'm very fair. I invest in

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Speaker 2: understanding what's important to people and their personal lives. Like

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Speaker 2: you know, back in the day, it was like, don't

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Speaker 2: cross that boundary, whereas now I like knowing what their kids'

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Speaker 2: names are, and what sports their kids do, and where

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Speaker 2: they're going on holidays and how's your mother in law?

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Speaker 2: And because when people are giving so much of their

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Speaker 2: life to you, you want to make sure that they

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Speaker 2: feel valued and heard and supported. And so I have

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Speaker 2: always tried to be a leader that really leans into

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Speaker 2: those feminine qualities, if I'm honest, Yeah, of being caring

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Speaker 2: and nurturing. And I don't think that makes like there's

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Speaker 2: a perception that you have to be this hard ass.

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Speaker 2: And I couldn't disagree anymore with that, because I think

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Speaker 2: there's absolutely something in being You can still be kind,

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Speaker 2: but you can be assertive, and I've seen that with

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Speaker 2: you in the way from what I've seen the way

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Speaker 2: you lead as well. You can still be kind and

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Speaker 2: caring with your team members and want to encourage them

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Speaker 2: to grow and prosper and nurture. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: you still can make hard business decisions, and you still

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Speaker 2: can be assertive for what you believe is right for you, know,

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Speaker 2: your business or yourself.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think I've definitely learned a lot of lessons

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Speaker 1: over the years. I'm still learning every single day at FATE,

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Speaker 1: but like being a woman in a leadership CEO and

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Speaker 1: found a position, I've learned millions of lessons and i

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Speaker 1: think one of the biggest ones is, like what you

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Speaker 1: were saying, you can be kind, but you also have

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Speaker 1: to be firm, but then just learning where that boundary lies.

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Speaker 1: And I've definitely learned over the years. There's been times

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Speaker 1: where I have been way too nice and it's absolutely

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Speaker 1: beating me in the barm and then I'm like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, and I'm laying in bed at night being

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Speaker 1: like I wanted to just be a complete bitch then

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Speaker 1: to get some respect in this workplace. Because I'd be

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Speaker 1: so nice and accommodating, someone walks all over me and

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Speaker 1: I think this is something that probably a lot of

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Speaker 1: like female leaders do experience, is like people taking your

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Speaker 1: kindness for granted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and when they do, I've just called them

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Speaker 2: out on that when that's happened. But I'm still learning

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Speaker 2: as well. But we don't necessarily follow any of my

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Speaker 2: line and.

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Speaker 1: You need to tell me everything, you know. But then

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Speaker 1: the thing I find with that as well is let's say,

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Speaker 1: if you are a leader and you're always really nice

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Speaker 1: and someone takes advantage of that and treats you in

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Speaker 1: a certain way or walks over you in a certain

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Speaker 1: way and you call them out on that, they then

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Speaker 1: get so offended because they've never seen you act in

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Speaker 1: that way.

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Speaker 2: When you say acting that way, though, what do you mean, Like,

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Speaker 2: how are you calling them out on it?

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Speaker 1: Well, I've never really had to call someone out, but

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Speaker 1: you know, or if you just have to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can we chat about something like you know, it can

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Speaker 1: then be like like you know, and then they're shocked.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's like important to yes, be kind always.

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Speaker 1: But I think one thing that I've absolutely learned over

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Speaker 1: the years is I need to have that perfect balance

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Speaker 1: of kind But also I am a decision maker at

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Speaker 1: all times, because if you're always super dup and nice,

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Speaker 1: which I was in my early days of Fate, when

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Speaker 1: I was besties with everyone and we're going out for drinks,

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Speaker 1: and then when push comes to shove and something goes

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Speaker 1: wrong and I have to be like, hey, like this happened,

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Speaker 1: it can feel like it all falls apart because you've

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Speaker 1: never had that professional boundary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That's one of the things I struggled with in

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Speaker 2: my career is that I'm not in corporate media anymore.

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Speaker 2: But I'm in a business now with Three Birds, which

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Speaker 2: I love, and it's a small business and we're a

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Speaker 2: really tight team.

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Speaker 1: They're very popular. Though everyone knows I know. I know

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Speaker 1: everyone knows Three Birds.

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Speaker 2: I know there are terrific three women that founded it,

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Speaker 2: and I am really passionate about female led businesses, as

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Speaker 2: my career has shown. So yeah, so I absolutely do

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Speaker 2: working with them. But I would say I had in

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Speaker 2: my previous roles, which were in big companies and sometimes

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Speaker 2: multinational companies, I actually found being at the top, like

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Speaker 2: you're discussing and needing to have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: separation is probably important, yes, but I also found that

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Speaker 2: very lonely yeah, and that was the part that I'd

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Speaker 2: never considered and when I got to COVID, when I

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Speaker 2: got to when we all got to COVID, Sorry guys,

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Speaker 2: but for me personally, during COVID, it really i'd been

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Speaker 2: on the hamster wheel for so long, like so many

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Speaker 2: of us had been, and it obviously forced us all

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Speaker 2: to stop. And what it made me realize was I

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Speaker 2: had spent so long being in these big jobs and overachieving,

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Speaker 2: and ultimately I was lonely and I was really burnt

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Speaker 2: out and I was unhappy. And it really kind of

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Speaker 2: hit me that I've made it to the top. And

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Speaker 2: people might look from the outside and go, wow, she's

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Speaker 2: like got the big gig, and she's like that's amazing

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Speaker 2: and she must have this dream life, but it wasn't true,

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Speaker 2: you know, And it just so happened that I had

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Speaker 2: a job and my career. I'd been very good at

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Speaker 2: my career, but was it still making me happy? And

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Speaker 2: what I realized that I that I had compromised all

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Speaker 2: the other parts of my life that really I neglected

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Speaker 2: because I was so much focused on that train. And

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Speaker 2: it is lonely at the top. If you're you know,

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Speaker 2: you're climbing the ladder. But the more senior you get, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can't necessarily always be best. And that's not because

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Speaker 2: you don't want to be. It's also because, as you

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Speaker 2: would appreciate, like you have to pay the bills now

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Speaker 2: if something like changes in your business or you have

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Speaker 2: to restructure, or God forbid, something else happens and you

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Speaker 2: have to make harsh decisions in the business, like it

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Speaker 2: rests on you, like you know, and you're the one

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Speaker 2: that takes the risk for the business.

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Speaker 1: Every day.

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Speaker 2: You're the one fronting up with the money or whatever

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Speaker 2: it is, you'll take it. You're carrying that risk.

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Speaker 1: On your shoulders. I think that's like an interesting point

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Speaker 1: as well, and one thing that has opened my eyes since,

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Speaker 1: you know, starting a business and growing it to where

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Speaker 1: it is. I never like thought of anything in that

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Speaker 1: kind of way when I was just working at companies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you just see your boss as your

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Speaker 1: boss and they're the manager and whatever and oh yeah

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Speaker 1: she's a bitch or whatever, like you know, back when

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Speaker 1: I was working here, there and everywhere. But it's been

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Speaker 1: really eye opening to obviously be on the other side

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Speaker 1: and see it from like the business owner's point of view,

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Speaker 1: and I can almost really appreciate it when you know,

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Speaker 1: people on my team, especially our leaders, when they see

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Speaker 1: stuff from the business standpoint, I'm like, thank you, like

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Speaker 1: you understand. You know, if someone's like, hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to grow in the company, but I understand like we

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Speaker 1: don't have that opportunity for me yet, rather than being like,

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Speaker 1: why aren't you giving me a promotion, Like, it's really

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Speaker 1: nice when people understand, well, the business isn't ready for

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Speaker 1: that growth yet. Yeah, And it's just something that I

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Speaker 1: guess like a lot of team members just wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: about because you know, they're just advocating for themselves and

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Speaker 1: they want to grow in their role, and it's just

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Speaker 1: really eye opening for me to be on the other side. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, this is this is stress.

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Speaker 2: I can't sleep at night.

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Speaker 1: It's expensive and yeah, and that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: And you're managing cash flow and you're managing all these

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Speaker 2: things that you want to most likely you want to

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Speaker 2: protect your team from because you don't want them to

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Speaker 2: have that worry. No, that's not their job, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you want them to come to work feeling valued

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Speaker 2: and happy, and you know, in a workplace that has

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Speaker 2: a great culture. You don't want to be burdening them.

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Speaker 2: We're like, oh my god, I looked at the August

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Speaker 2: cash flow and I'm really stressed about payroll.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I would never want to show stress to my team.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure if you ask any of them, they'd be like,

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Speaker 1: it's like the most chill person ever. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I don't talk to you about any stressful things

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to put that burden on you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if anyone is in a scenario like we get a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions sent in like to our instagram for

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Speaker 1: big business and business owners asking us questions all the time,

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Speaker 1: and a lot are from leaders, I would say, and

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Speaker 1: they're dealing with like conflicts within teams or their employees.

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Speaker 1: And just thinking of like one recently that we did

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Speaker 1: a little episode about where she owns a retail store

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Speaker 1: and it must be pretty casual, and she's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: at the point where I've got these three team members

435
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: and they're shopping on the work computer during work hours

436
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: and they're like doing this and that, And she was

437
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: just kind of saying, you know, I'm at this point

438
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: where like I guess she's never had that boundary or

439
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,679
Speaker 1: like known how to speak to her team members in

440
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: a way where they're not going to think, oh, she's

441
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: just been a bitch. Yeah, Like, what would be your

442
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: advice to any owners or leaders out there who don't

443
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: know how to how trying to word this.

444
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: Like tough conversation? Yeah, have it?

445
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, have its? Yeah, and create those boundaries if the

446
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: only way they've ever done it for so long is

447
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: by being super casual and nice.

448
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I know. It feels like you've got to

449
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 2: be like almost an honorary psychologist when you're running a team,

450
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 2: don't you think, Yes, that's what I've always thought. Anyway,

451
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 2: what I would say is, too things, there's nothing wrong

452
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 2: with putting boundaries in place, and people ultimately respect boundaries.

453
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: They might push back a little bit, but after the pushback,

454
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 2: they're not going to hold that against you for the

455
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 2: next ten years most likely, Like you know, if you're

456
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 2: being reasonable with whatever you're a quest. Course, I've always

457
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: approached it from a view of when I'm needing something

458
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: from team members that maybe aren't necessarily performing, or they

459
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: are on their computers online, which I've been guilty of too, guys,

460
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 2: But and you want them to be a bit more productive.

461
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,959
Speaker 2: I've always approached it from a lens of firstly, I

462
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 2: start with, I just want to check on you. Are

463
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 2: you okay, because immediately it's kind of just checking that

464
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: there's not something else going on in their life, because

465
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: sometimes there can be something like that or you might

466
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: find out actually, and I've had this happened to me

467
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: many times where I've opened with a conversation like that

468
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 2: and said, I just want to have a chat to

469
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 2: you about things. First of all, I've noticed this and this,

470
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: and you're such a great employee and we love having

471
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: you in this business. But these things that I've observed

472
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: don't seem like aligned with what you've how you've previously performed,

473
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 2: or how I thought, you know, you'd be performing in

474
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 2: the role. And I, first of all, I just want

475
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,959
Speaker 2: to check it you okay, like how's things and in

476
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 2: his like life good type thing, those type of questions

477
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: I have had that happened many times that that's when

478
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 2: I've found something out. So when they've said, you know,

479
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: you know my mum's going through cancer treatment right now,

480
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 2: or you know my my brother is going through treatment,

481
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: you know, I've a lot of the time discovered something there,

482
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: and that's when I'm able to say, I'm really sorry

483
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: that that's going on. How can I support you? So

484
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 2: sometimes that has and then it doesn't mean I don't

485
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 2: still say I say how can I support you? And

486
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: then I basically say, if you're feeling comfortable with this,

487
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 2: knowing what's going on in your personal life, is it

488
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: okay if we agree on these.

489
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: Kind of boundaries moving forward.

490
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 2: Now, Sometimes there's nothing going on in their personal life

491
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: and they look at you blankly, like and they've got

492
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: a look on their face of like, how fucking dare you?

493
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: You know?

494
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: And what do people do in that in.

495
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: And in that instance, it is that whole thing of

496
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: you still have a job to do, and if you

497
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: approach it with them like gently, respectfully, but with a

498
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: firm boundary, then you've done your job and then it's

499
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 2: up to them to process it. You can't take that

500
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: on because if you spend your whole career being worried

501
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: about what everyone thinks about you all the time, it's

502
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: a really bad place.

503
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of thing that people in

504
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: leadership positions struggle with, is that balance of like wanting

505
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: to do their job properly and have everything running smoothly,

506
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: but also not wanting to feel like everyone's enemy. Yes,

507
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: like you want to be likable, Yeah, everyone wants to

508
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: be there.

509
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: We all want to be likable. And I think the

510
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: thing that I've learned over these I struggled with this

511
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: too earlier in my career is that if you are

512
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: a good leader and kind and empathetic, and if you

513
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: can go to sleep at night knowing I always say,

514
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: if you can put your head on your pillow knowing

515
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: you've acted with integrity, then that's all that matters. Because

516
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 2: if you have, if you've stayed true to your morals

517
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 2: and values, and yes, you have to have tough conversations

518
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: when you're a leader, there's no avoiding that, like you

519
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: just can't. So, but if you're doing those tough conversations

520
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: in a respectful way and in a kind way, that's

521
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: ultimately all you can do.

522
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: That's all you can do. And I think it's also

523
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: being at peace with knowing even though you know you

524
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: do everything, you know everything right, and that you are

525
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: kind and respectful, it's okay if people still feel another

526
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: way about you, because that's also inevitable, you know, And

527
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: I think as long as you can be at peace

528
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: with the way that you're operating, then, like you said,

529
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: that's all you can do.

530
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: Yes.

531
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: One thing that I feel like I've seen written everywhere

532
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: when we're looking you up is how good you are

533
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: at negotiating. I've learned in my career that everything is negotiable, yes,

534
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: And I don't think a lot of people know that,

535
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: like when they're going into something new, perhaps even if

536
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: it's something like opening a retail store and asking what

537
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: the rent is and then people go, Okay, that's the rent,

538
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: I'll pay it, but you negotiate.

539
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

540
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, like especially if they're

541
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: in business or they're doing something new and they've never

542
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: done it before, they don't understand, like, you can negotiate anything.

543
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely tell us about.

544
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 2: Negotiation rent, you can negotiate your mortgage rates, you can

545
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: negotiate your salary, everything. Negotiation is something that I think,

546
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 2: like anything, it's like a muscle, and I think because

547
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: I've been exposed to it for so much of my career,

548
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: it comes a bit easier to me. And I guess

549
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: I started observing over the years and picking up tips

550
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: here and there. Whether I was observing deals like you

551
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: know in the US when I was back in my

552
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: time there, or whether it was major talent contracts when

553
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: I was running a radio network for example. And I

554
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: also have always, for some reason, had a real love

555
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: of it, and I think it does link in very

556
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: tightly with psychology. And I also have a love for

557
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: psychology too, And because my career started in radio and

558
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: being a producer, a lot of the time you're negotiating

559
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 2: with the people that are on air, or you're negotiating

560
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: with the guests that's coming on. And so I think

561
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: it just started with me very young, and I almost

562
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: don't know anything different, and I've just built on that

563
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 2: skill over the last thirty years. I'm very passionate about

564
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 2: negotiation for women. That's my real passion, and that is

565
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: because women are I don't want to blanket this statement,

566
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: but they are notoriously not great negotiators.

567
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: Compared comes down to like a lack of self confidence completely.

568
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: It's actually self worth, yeah, self worth and knowing what

569
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: your value is. And ultimately there's a great example I use,

570
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: which is that when there was a study done when

571
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 2: in both both men and women had to negotiate a

572
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: salary in this study and the men performed thirty percent

573
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: higher than the women did. And yet when they reframed

574
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: things and then they had to negotiate, and they were

575
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: negotiating both the men and the women were negotiating instead

576
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: for their best friends salary. Okay, so they switched the narrative, right,

577
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: the men dropped in performance quite significantly and the women

578
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: outperformed by thirty to forty percent. Wow, so nothing had

579
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: changed except you'd been told that you were doing it

580
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: for someone else. And doesn't that speak volumes in terms

581
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: of a lot of the time how women operate. We're

582
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: about wanting to look after others. We're about like we'll

583
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: champion our best friends and go, no, you can do.

584
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: You absolutely need to know that when when is it? Like,

585
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: why is it when it's ourselves, it's gone, It's like

586
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, I'll just take that, Yeah, take

587
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: what I can get. Whereas if it's your bestie, yeah, no, girl,

588
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: yeah you were way more than Yes. We lose that

589
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: confidence when it's ourself.

590
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: I know, I know, And this is what's really fascinating.

591
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: But even knowing that tip, I always use that example

592
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: because if you're a woman and you're about to go

593
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: into your own salary negotiation. Just do that, reframe it

594
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: and go into the meeting and think that you're negotiating

595
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: for your best friend and have her in your mind

596
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: or him in your mind, and have a photo of them.

597
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: That's actually a really good trick if you're very, very

598
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: nervous about and you're not sure you're going to be

599
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: able to maintain all the reasons why in the conversation

600
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: you believe you should have an increase, that's a really

601
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: good kind of way.

602
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: To get around it. Yeah, I love that.

603
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: But yes, negotiation has been a huge part of my career. Yes,

604
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 2: I have negotiated probably a lot of complex, high profile deals,

605
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: one of them being Jackie's for the Carl and Jackie

606
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: O Show. Jackie not only is my best friend, but

607
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: I'm also her manager.

608
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: Which also really fascinates me. By the way, like I'm

609
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: always interested when I see you know, best easy in

610
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: business and doing stuff together, but also able to you know,

611
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: maintain that solid friendship because it's not easy and not

612
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: everyone can do it in the same you know, people

613
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: will say the same about myself and my partner AJ

614
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: and now where partners, but we also run faate together,

615
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: so that's always really fascinating to me.

616
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for me and I think Jack would

617
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: say the same thing. Actually, we've just been in each

618
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: other's lives for so long, but we've also worked together before,

619
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: Like we've worked together when when I was in radio

620
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: originally she was as well.

621
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: We're at the same radio station.

622
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: So we've just kind of always had We've crossed over

623
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: and had work relationship and personal relationship a few times

624
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: in our lives, so it's not unusual for us.

625
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: Have you ever butted heads and had to have like

626
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: a chat with one another?

627
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: We never butt heads, Like personally, we're very and I

628
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: think because it were like sisters, like if something's we

629
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: bring it up, like I'd go like, what do you

630
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: mean by that? Or you know, so we're quite Yeah,

631
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: we're just really easy going with each other and we're

632
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: not precious about bringing up something if it bothers us.

633
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 2: We've never really butted heads professionally. Actually maybe a handful

634
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: of times, but not really. We have such a mutual

635
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: respect for each other and always done.

636
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: Doing yeah business with anyone like that would be my

637
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: number one piece of advice is like respect one another,

638
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: be okay with disagreeing with one another, Like you both

639
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: can't be like yeah all the time because that's not

640
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: going to work in the long run. And also like

641
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: understanding both of your individual strengths completely, like what you're

642
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: good at and what Jackie is good at, yeah, and

643
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: like using that to work together. Yeah, other than like

644
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: getting in each other's way.

645
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: That's it. I completely create such great advice because yeah,

646
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: there's things that she brings, assets she brings, and skills

647
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: she has, and she looks at things with a lens

648
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: that I don't and vice versa, and we respect that

649
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: in each other. So yeah, So that's what we've never

650
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: had any problems with how we make it all work.

651
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: And sometimes we'll say things more so me, I'll say,

652
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: because I'm usually the one wanting to like cross off

653
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: things on the work clist, but I'll say to her, hey,

654
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: I've got to put my work hat on here for

655
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: the next ten minutes. So I really make it clear

656
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: when we're yes, we've got like we're now having work chat,

657
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: and then we'll go back to discussing like tarot cards

658
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: and love life, you know, Like, so I do really

659
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: call out so that it's not confusing and look during

660
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: obviously managing her I've negotiated her contract, and that's you know,

661
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: that was a contract, that was a very complex contract,

662
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: and it doesn't happen quickly. I think that's the other

663
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: thing with negotiation is a lot of people think that

664
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: you just decide on a number and you go in

665
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: and you be bullish, and it's the absolute opposite way

666
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: to how I recommend to go into a negotiation. Negotiation

667
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: is all about preparation and having being so prepared with

668
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: the chessboard, so to speak, with like if I say this,

669
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: this or this, here's all the options that will that

670
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 2: will be in front of them once I give them

671
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: one of these options and then they'll do this, Like

672
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: you've got to be really like four steps ahead with

673
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: all the different avenues. So it is absolutely about preparation

674
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: and planning, like a considerable amount of that is my advice,

675
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: and not being bullish, like I've never ever gone into

676
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: a negotiation in my career and being like aggressive, Like

677
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: that's just not my nature and my personality anyway. So

678
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: I always say, be the person you are in a negotiation.

679
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm very strategic in terms of where I think it's going,

680
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: but I'm still really friendly and kind and that's about

681
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: building trust, and that's about building a relationship with the

682
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: other person, and I will often ask personal questions and

683
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: really take note of anything that they're giving me that

684
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: could be a clue. So even if I'm in a

685
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: negotiation and they happen to mention that, oh, we've got

686
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: the kid's soccer final this weekend, i could be negotiating

687
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: a huge deal with them. But I'll make sure I

688
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: clock that, and then the following week, when we're picking

689
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: up the conversation again, I'll say what happened with the

690
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: soccer final. Small things like that actually go a long way.

691
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: It sounds really small, but the subtlety of the collection

692
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: and the compound of all of those kind of approaches

693
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: can make the other person feel a little bit more

694
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: disarmed and make you feel like and using positive language,

695
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: like instead of saying I want this, I that, or

696
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: it's saying if they're not coming back with what you want,

697
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: it's saying, I'm really confident we're going to get a

698
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: great outcome here. I know we're not quite at what

699
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: I'm after yet, but I'm positive you and I are

700
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 2: going to find a result here. Like it's using all

701
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: of that framing sorry, I could talk about this for ages. Now.

702
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: It's also like you saying, like you remember little things

703
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: that people say. It's kind of the same feeling that

704
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: you get when you go to order a coffee and

705
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: they remember your coffee order. Yeah, and that's like the

706
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: smallest little thing, but it makes you go, oh, like

707
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: they remembered, you know. So I think like taking that

708
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: mindset when you are going into a more serious conversation. Yeah,

709
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: Like it's just like a little social skill. Yeah, I think, yeah, absolutely.

710
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: And they have a job to do and you have

711
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: a job to do in the negotiation, right, So you've

712
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: got to just understand there are definitely certain levers you

713
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 2: can pull and like I could, as I said, I

714
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 2: could talk about this for hours. Hence why we did

715
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: the course because we felt really strongly that we wanted

716
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: to give women really practical tools on how to negotiate effectively,

717
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: you know. And that's the greatest joy for us is

718
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: that you get so many messages from women saying like, oh,

719
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: I just negotiated like a ten grand pay rise, or

720
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: you know, I just negotiated my mortgage rates back and

721
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: I'd been too scared to do that before. And I

722
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 2: followed the script you gave me and how good and

723
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: so like, I love that because I want women to

724
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: get what they deserve.

725
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to have all my fate stuff coming

726
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 1: to me after this going on in a tenk.

727
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: I listened to the podcast and Jefferson, but I am

728
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: very clear in that you can't just ask for a

729
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: pay rise.

730
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: To ask for a pay rise, yes, it's a really

731
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: important thing to heah. I think it's like know you're

732
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: worth and ask for it. But like on the back

733
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: of that, also you need to like work for that.

734
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely. If you could demonstrate that you've had wins on

735
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: the board, or that you've increased productivity or you've increased sales,

736
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: whatever it is, if you can demonstrate that, then you're

737
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: able to you know, your manager is able to justify

738
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: absolutely that additional increase, you know, and ultimately you want

739
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: to reward great staff. You know, you want to retain

740
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: and you want to reward them.

741
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, well let's talk about besties. I was honored

742
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: to come on the pod, and you said when I

743
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: was there that you don't really have guests on very much,

744
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: so I felt very special. What was the reason for

745
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: both of you, you know, joining forces and starting this

746
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: brand together. Yeah, we started it about two years ago.

747
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: And originally when we started it, it was because we

748
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: both feel really strongly about empowering women, and not just

749
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: empowering women, but women carry a lot on their shoulders

750
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: and we wanted to provide ways for women to have fun,

751
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: because having fun, like, what's the point of us, like,

752
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, always having a heavy load on our shoulders

753
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: if we can't have join our lives. No, we need

754
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: to have more fun. But I feel the same in

755
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: some weeks when I'm at work, I'm in the thick

756
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: of it, and then I'm like, oh my god, like,

757
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: let's just have fun. Please. Everything can feel so serious

758
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: at work a lot of the time, when it's like

759
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: we're just girls. We just want to have fun.

760
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's the thing what you get

761
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: from a best friend. Well, certainly that's what Jackie and

762
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 2: I give each other and always have, is that we

763
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 2: can have the shittiest week, or we can have something

764
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: really stressful going on, but we will literally laugh and

765
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: almost wet ourselves. Like we both had children, so bladder

766
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: control is not great, but you know, there's so much

767
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: joy that comes from spending time with your best friends,

768
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: and so we thought if we created a business that

769
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: was creating more of those opportunities and time with your

770
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 2: best friends and to have fun, we felt like there

771
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: was something really beautiful about that. So when we started it,

772
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: it was more going to be about guest speaker events

773
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: and doing trips. We then started the podcast, which I

774
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: very reluctantly did, and I always give Jack full credit

775
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 2: for being so persistent and really wanting to do it.

776
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: And the reason that she wanted to do it is

777
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: because we'd both been through divorces respectively. We're both moms,

778
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: we've both had big career is, and we also felt

779
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: like we were still learning so much about ourselves. We

780
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: went through periods where we felt so lost. We feel

781
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: so low after a separation. You start wondering what's wrong

782
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: with me? Am I not lovable? Why do I keep

783
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: picking the wrong people? All these types of questions. And

784
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: we started going on a real deep dive and a

785
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: journey ourselves with our psychologist, doctor Cory and various Yeah

786
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: she's terrific, and various other we even had the same

787
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: psychologists like seriously, but and various other you know, books

788
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: that we were reading, etc. And we just decided that

789
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: we didn't want other women to be in their lowest point,

790
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: which we had been at previously, and feel like there's

791
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: no way out, or feel like it seems.

792
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: So hard to claw your way out.

793
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: Ye, And we thought, if we can make women feel

794
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: like there is so much joy to be found in

795
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 2: life and you can find your way there, And that's

796
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: where we started thinking, what if we shared our vulnerabilities,

797
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: what if we shared the reality and took away like

798
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: the glossy perfectionist thing that you might see on Instagram. Yes,

799
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: and yeah, that's where we started. And look, to be

800
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: honest with you, I think I agreed to I think

801
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: I said to Jack, I'll do it for three months

802
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: as a trial. That was a year ago, and it

803
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: just I mean, we feel very very grateful for this,

804
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: but it has gone so well, and it's obviously really

805
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: been so much more of a success than we ever expected.

806
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: But we love that it's making women feel not so alone.

807
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: And that's the part that keeps us going is we

808
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: get women stopping us in the streets saying like I

809
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: literally left my husband. Sorry, But we get this a

810
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 2: lot because I realized that I was in a toxic relationship.

811
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: But I'd been too scared to.

812
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: Realize that I deserved better, or we get those types

813
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: of things said to us all the time on the street.

814
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: And so suddenly Bestie's has become about this community of women,

815
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 2: a very very large community, and it's about educating and

816
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: sharing through the podcast, and it's about Jackie and I

817
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 2: kind of sharing our journeys as well, like we've gone

818
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 2: through our dating journeys on there. You know, we've shared

819
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 2: everything on our sex lives, like we're very open and transparent,

820
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: and so now the business is really about that, and

821
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: we do still do trips. We're announcing another trip soon and.

822
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: Still doing yeah, yeah, more trips like you do.

823
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I told you gave us a kick

824
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: up the bum and we started going do it. Britney says, yeah.

825
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: So the business is it's best easy is a celebration. Yes,

826
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: it's Jackie and and I as best friends, but really

827
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: it's just it should be hopefully a reflection of anyone's

828
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 2: best friend relationship and a fly on the wall in

829
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 2: all the things you talk about with your best friend

830
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: and finding more opportunities to provide that for women to

831
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: come out and have those fun moments because if you're

832
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: running a business or you're in a big job, or

833
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: even if you know, if you're a mom and you're juggling,

834
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: Like it's just sometimes a life is a lot, and

835
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 2: and you know, sometimes it's good to just let your

836
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 2: hair down and to laugh so hard or meet other women,

837
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: and that's what we're about.

838
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I think like the power of

839
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: community is often overlooked, and we're massive on community within

840
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: Fate and our community as well. And there was like

841
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: this funny Reddit post that went around recently and someone

842
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: was saying that there's like all these fashion brands, like

843
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: Fate was one of them named, and two others, and

844
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: someone was saying that, like, oh, these brands, they're just cults,

845
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, because we've got like community groups and we

846
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: do meetups and everything, and it's like, what are you

847
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: talking about, Like is there any shame? And especially like

848
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: these were women focused brands, I'm like, of course, it's

849
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: the women focused brands that are doing extensive size ranges

850
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: that are the ones getting called cults. But like, I

851
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: think because of social media, there is such a disconnect

852
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: in the world, you know, these days where everything's online

853
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: and we're mainly communicating online that you forget how good

854
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: it is to just get a bunch of like minded

855
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: people together and just have a bit of fun and

856
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: have a good time. And that's what we really value,

857
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: Like one of our brand values that fate is community,

858
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: and we just love any excuse to get everyone together,

859
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: even if it's just to like have a chat and

860
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: have laugh, well, have a picnic.

861
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so good. I love that you have that

862
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: because it really does.

863
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: Feed your soul.

864
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,959
Speaker 2: I think, like if you think about day to day now,

865
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: so much of our transactions are done online, and so

866
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 2: go one to the days where you would like maybe

867
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: stop and talk to the person at the grocery store.

868
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: Everyone's even so disconnected out in like real life now.

869
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: I feel you go to.

870
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 2: The supermarket now and it's on a machine, whereas previously

871
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: you'd be talking to the person and you know, going,

872
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: they go, haw's you day?

873
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: Yeah?

874
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: Good, how's yours? You know, those small interactions have been

875
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: minimized now. We don't have as many of those anymore,

876
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: and so I think community is more important than ever before.

877
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: We're all craving it, we're absolutely desperate for it.

878
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll get my community together any Yeah, like we

879
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: did a sale a couple of months ago, and like

880
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: we do a sale every now and then, and then

881
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: we're like, let's get the community involved. So we hired

882
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: like a food truck and a coffee like van, and

883
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: we had them come just like local businesses. We had

884
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: them come and like pull up outside our warehouse, and

885
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: then we invited fifty customers to just come and like

886
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: have breakfast and a coffee on us. Such on our

887
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: sale day on a Saturday. We got the team to

888
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: work and it was just like wholesome and nice.

889
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a just hood. Yeah, it's nice being kind.

890
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. I love it.

891
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

892
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: Well, Gemma, we always end every Big Business episode with

893
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: a tip of the week. Do you have any tips

894
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 1: that you would like to share? It can be life hack,

895
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: it can be personal, it can be business, it can

896
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: be leadership. I mean you've already given us a lot.

897
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: This might be a little bland, but for me, it's

898
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: been a game changer. And I've got a recent experience

899
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: of this. So I'm a big meditator, okay, and I

900
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 2: got into that about seven or eight years ago. I've

901
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: never done meditating before. I have a very busy brain,

902
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: very creative brain. So a lot of the time my

903
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: perception had been I can't necessarily just quite quite in

904
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: my mind. And I went and did a meditation cause

905
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: and the type of meditation I did was TM transcendental

906
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: meditation or some people call it vedic, I think now,

907
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: but that for me completely transformed my leadership and business brain.

908
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: Because I am i'd like to think by nature, I'm

909
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: pretty calm and unflappable. It takes a lot to rattle me,

910
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: like it's an ongoing joke with my friends that like, yeah,

911
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: the world could be ending, and I'd be sitting there

912
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 2: going like everyone, it's okay, Like we'll figure it out,

913
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: you know. But I think my nature has in time

914
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: got I've gotten more like that because of meditation, and

915
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: so I feel like I'm a better leader, I'm a

916
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: better business person because of that. So in the morning,

917
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: I will usually get up early. My routine had always

918
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,479
Speaker 2: been that I get up at five am, a single mum,

919
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: and I would get up at five meditate for forty

920
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: five minutes well, and then I'd usually do a workout

921
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: at home, and then I wake up the kids, you know,

922
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: get ready for school, and the chaos begins. So that

923
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: has been my absolute routine for the last like six years,

924
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 2: and it absolutely has made me feel fueled every day.

925
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: And the analogy I use is it's like reading glasses,

926
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: and if you put reading glasses on and if you

927
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: after a few days, it will get like there'll be

928
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: like smudges on it, and it maybe some scratches on it,

929
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 2: and a few months or a few weeks later they'll

930
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: be pretty dirty. But my whole thing is that by meditating,

931
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: it's almost like you cleanse them every morning and you

932
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: see the world and you see your opportunity, and you

933
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: see everything around you every day with very clear eyes

934
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: and mind. And so that's why it became so import

935
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: to me. The interesting thing is that I met my

936
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 2: partner six months ago and he's really messed up my

937
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: morning routine because here I was, by the way, not

938
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: only was I meditating for forty five minutes, I'd then

939
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: do manifestation for fifteen minutes. And if anyone wants a

940
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: quick guide on exactly what to do, the book I

941
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: always recommend is called into the Magic Shot by doctor

942
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 2: James Doughty. It'll give you the absolute everything you need

943
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: to know. And so then i'd be manifested in my

944
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: manifestation section of my practice. In the morning, I'd be

945
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: manifesting I'd love one day to meet a lovely man,

946
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: and you know that would be one of my things. Right,

947
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: So now I've manifested the lovely man. But then in

948
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: the morning, then we're like snuggling in bed because we

949
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: don't want to get out of bed and we've waited

950
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: to find each other for so long and it's all lovely.

951
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: So that's taken up my meditation time. So what has

952
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: happened this is this is absolutely true. So what has

953
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: happened is that then I stopped doing it for the

954
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: last like probably yeah, about the last five months, I've

955
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 2: not done it, And what's happening, and it absolutely I've noticed.

956
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: It's okay everyone, I'm back on now. But I noticed

957
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 2: completely a difference in me. How I was not as creative.

958
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: I was quicker to get to like judgment or decision.

959
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: I didn't like like what it was taking me to basically,

960
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: And so anyway, I'm back doing it. I'm getting up

961
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: at five. My new routine is I get up at five,

962
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 2: I do the meditation, manifestation, I exercise, and then I

963
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 2: get back into bed at six forty nice. Yes, and

964
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: then I wake him up and go, babe, it's time

965
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: to wake up.

966
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: You've had your time, my time.

967
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: And so that is actually my leadership tip is because

968
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 2: you've got to fit your own oxygen masks first, and

969
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: I think it just makes you get out of the

970
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: rat race and it just really calms your nervous system.

971
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to take that tip. I'm going to have

972
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: to read that book and do meditation. I've never done meta,

973
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: have you not? Life not? Because I think I'm like

974
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: what you were where I'm like, there's no way I

975
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: could meditate. Are you sitting there thinking bing bang.

976
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: Bomb and like, yeah, that's Okayzy, that's okay because it's

977
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: almost like, imagine for the type of meditation that I do.

978
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: Imagine that you've got a whiteboard which is your brain,

979
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: and it's got ex'es all over it, right, and that's thoughts.

980
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: That's that's thoughts in your brain as you meditate. The

981
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: longer you meditate, you're going to keep having thoughts, but

982
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 2: you'll come back to the man. It's a mantra based

983
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: It's not like I am beautiful or anything like that,

984
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 2: but it's a mantra based practice, and as you come

985
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: back to the mantra, you keep wiping away more and

986
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: so by the end of say forty five minutes, I

987
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: have run out of Like my thoughts are less. There's

988
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 2: less thought bubbles and you know, you're breathing changes and

989
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: all those kind of things. So having thoughts is totally fine,

990
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 2: but it's also where I have the most business ideas.

991
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: Like I had a brilliant business idea this morning in

992
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: my meditation and I message Jackie straight away after it.

993
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 2: And so this is that's where it's beneficial, is because

994
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 2: you really do feel like you're starting to think of

995
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: things for your business and your life.

996
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: It's not just about business.

997
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to give it a go. Yeah,

998
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: into the Magic Shop, highly recommend.

999
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to get that and read it. Yeah, well, Jemma,

1000
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on Big Business. Where

1001
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: can everyone find you if they want to come find you?

1002
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: Or best I live in Clovelly, so.

1003
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: R no.

1004
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: We talk about this all the time on the podcast.

1005
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 2: How I barely leave the suburb just walk into her

1006
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: I know. Well, you can listen to our podcast her

1007
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: Best Life orrever you listen to your podcasts, and our

1008
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 2: website is we our Besties dot com. Or you can

1009
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: follow us on Instagram. I personally don't have Instagram, and

1010
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 2: I spoke about it. I think I've got about nothing

1011
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 2: compared to you. But I think I've got something like

1012
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 2: fifty thousand friend requests, but I'm on private.

1013
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah that's nice though.

1014
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just because my life's busy enough as

1015
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: it is. Now. I feel like, I don't know, I

1016
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: kind of like being in my bubble alone. You and

1017
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: I were talking about.

1018
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: This, I think I would be the same, but unfortunately

1019
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: I went the other way, and my whole life and

1020
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: business is online.

1021
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love it, so don't change that.

1022
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: I don't change. But at least you've got your other

1023
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: like channels and pages and profiles, so like kind of online,

1024
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: but like your private and personal stuff is still.

1025
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: Like yours exactly. And that's mainly because of my kids,

1026
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 2: if I'm honest. Yeah, I feel like I don't want

1027
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: to My personal belief for them is I don't want

1028
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: to make that decision for them.

1029
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: I want to let them make that decision when they're

1030
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: a bit older.

1031
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 2: So that's why I still keep myself a little bit

1032
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: tucked away in terms of on Insta.

1033
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you so much for

1034
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: coming on. Thanks Freeze, it's been great. I feel like

1035
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: we could chat for hours.

1036
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: I know, right,