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Speaker 1: Couday.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: It's been an interesting week here at our place. Some

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Speaker 1: big news in Australian television this week. If you haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it, I'm about to spoil it for you. The

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Speaker 1: Bachelor and the Mask Singer in Australia are not coming

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Speaker 1: back on the network that they have been on this year.

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Speaker 1: I have just lost not one, but two jobs in

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Speaker 1: the same day. If you ever lost a job, you

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Speaker 1: might have an idea of what that can feel like.

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Speaker 2: I certainly know what it used to feel like when

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Speaker 2: I lost Australian Idol.

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Speaker 1: It felt like the world didn't want me, like my

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Speaker 1: wife was over that I'd be moving into a caravan park,

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Speaker 1: eating spaghetti and wheatbacks for the rest of my days.

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Speaker 2: It's just another washed up XTV guy. I used to

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Speaker 2: be someone you fucking kids get, you know that guy

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Speaker 2: never ever to get hired again. And then two things happened.

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Speaker 1: Onely I got sober, and two I lost two jobs

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Speaker 1: in the same day, which is.

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Speaker 2: Kind of why this week is really very very funny

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Speaker 2: for me, because it's not the first time that I've lost.

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Speaker 1: Two jobs in the same day. So did I feel

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Speaker 1: like the world didn't want me. Did I feel like

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Speaker 1: my life was over? Did I feel like that me

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Speaker 1: and my family would have to move into a caravan

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Speaker 1: park and live in fear that the place where we

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Speaker 1: live is going to get turned into a housing estate

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Speaker 1: any day now?

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Speaker 2: The answer might surprise you.

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Speaker 1: Before I get to that, though, I'm going to play

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Speaker 1: some ads to pay the bills, because this podcast is,

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Speaker 1: and as you're about to hear, has been for.

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Speaker 2: Some time, my main source of income. So I'll be

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Speaker 2: back after the break.

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Speaker 1: Gooday, this is better than yesterday, helping you make today

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Speaker 1: better than yesterday since twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: My name is Osha Ginsburg. I'm a podcaster. I'm a

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Speaker 1: best selling author. I am at the host. It is

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Speaker 1: something I do, just not right now. I'm an award

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Speaker 1: winning documentary maker. I'm a dad, I'm a stepdad and

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Speaker 1: my husband. I'm a cargo bicycle rider. I'm a weally

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Speaker 1: bin takerund I'm a night Jasmine vine tamer, and I'm

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Speaker 1: very glad that you.

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Speaker 2: Became here today. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for the feedback and the reviews coming through. On

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Speaker 1: the website, Oshi ginsburg dot com is where it is.

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Speaker 2: It's in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: If you want to click on it. There's every episode

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Speaker 1: ever there, there's the mailing listic. It's really easy to

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Speaker 1: get in touch with me. There's a contact form there

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Speaker 1: you can get on the mailing list as well. And

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Speaker 1: every episode that we've ever done, there's nearly a thousand,

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Speaker 1: including episode eighty, which I will get to a moment.

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Speaker 1: So the other day here in Australia, the news broke

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Speaker 1: that two of the shows that I have been working

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Speaker 1: on are not coming back on Network ten in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, The Bachelor and The Masked Singer. I have

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Speaker 1: been very gratefully part of both of those formats from

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Speaker 1: episode one twenty thirteen The Bachelor, and we shot the

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Speaker 1: first mask Singer in twenty nineteen. And aside from I

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Speaker 1: think there was a few moments during COVID where I

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Speaker 1: appeared on The Bachelor in voiceover only for one or

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Speaker 1: two episodes.

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Speaker 2: I've been a part of every single episode of those shows.

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Speaker 1: In fact, at one point I don't know if anyone

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Speaker 1: had ever done this before either. At one point I

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Speaker 1: hosted four primetime network television shows in the same year

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Speaker 1: in Australia, The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, Bachelor and Paradise and

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Speaker 1: the Masked Singer.

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Speaker 2: And that was also the year that Wolfgang was born.

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Speaker 2: It was a big year. It was a big year.

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Speaker 2: So to say that the last.

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Speaker 1: Decade has been successful for me in television would be

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Speaker 1: an absolutely understatement. It has been incredible. I've been able

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Speaker 1: to do some of the best work of my entire life,

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Speaker 1: and the cherry on top. Last year, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: I was nominated for a Gold Low Year, which in

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Speaker 1: our country is a big deal. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: TV awards, and the other people in the category with

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Speaker 1: me were all incredible, and that was unbelievable, a humongous,

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Speaker 1: a career defining moment, if ever there was one. So

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Speaker 1: to go from that workload, and without being crass, that income,

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Speaker 1: because those four primetime TV shows, they were on the

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Speaker 1: mortgage application form for this house that I'm currently sitting in.

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Speaker 1: To go from that to nothing, you might imagine it's

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Speaker 1: a bit of a blow. The fact is that when

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Speaker 1: the news broke, it was just another Tuesday, and today

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Speaker 1: everything is absolutely fine and exactly like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Believe me, and I tell you though, this is not

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Speaker 1: how it used to be when I'd lost a job

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Speaker 1: or when people had found out that I'd lost a

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Speaker 1: job to go back to Australian Idol, which ran from

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three to two thousand and nine. There

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Speaker 1: were seven seasons to go back to that. When that

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Speaker 1: got canceled, I was absolutely broken. The ratings had been

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Speaker 1: slipping more and more. I was doing the final season

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Speaker 1: by myself after James had left. I was trying to

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Speaker 1: do the job of both of us, trying to learn

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Speaker 1: how to do that. At the upfronts that year, Upfronts

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Speaker 1: of the like a big sales event at the end

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Speaker 1: of the year where the TV networks essentially they kind

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Speaker 1: of pre sell a lot of the advertising schedule so

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Speaker 1: to make sure that they're going to cash flow is

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Speaker 1: pretty good for the next year. So they show, hey,

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Speaker 1: these are all the shows that are coming up next year.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you want to become a T year one sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and like it's a big deal, it's a big.

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Speaker 2: Part of the business.

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Speaker 1: And I stood next to Dave Hughes at the upfronts.

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Speaker 1: I was doing the project that week down in Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: so we're in the Docklands in a big function center

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Speaker 1: there and I watched the boss of Channel ten at

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Speaker 1: the time David might lovely bloke. I watched him proudly

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Speaker 1: proclaim that an Australian idol will return in twenty ten.

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Speaker 1: But as the weeks that was about November. As the

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Speaker 1: weeks went on and Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's

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Speaker 1: all came and went, I still hadn't heard anything about

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Speaker 1: the shooting days that were coming up. Normally, by then,

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Speaker 1: i'd heard like, hey, can you hold you know this

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Speaker 1: week in April and this thing from July.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, sure, but no, I hadn't heard a thing.

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Speaker 1: I was living in the US by then, I've been

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Speaker 1: there for about five years, and I didn't realize it.

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Speaker 1: But I was in my last kind of weeks, months

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Speaker 1: of drinking and using, so I had really i'd kin't

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Speaker 1: taken my eye off the ball of what was happening

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Speaker 1: in Australia. And I found out standing in my kitchen

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Speaker 1: opening up my phone and reading a rumors section on

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Speaker 1: a website. I was like what. And I called somebody

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Speaker 1: that I knew at the networks, and one I've been

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Speaker 1: working with on the show said I just read this

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Speaker 1: is it?

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Speaker 2: Is it real?

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Speaker 1: And they said to me, look, I can't tell you

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Speaker 1: anything official, because it's still a rumor and the publicity

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Speaker 1: people haven't put anything out yet. But I'm currently working

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Speaker 1: in pre production on another show altogether that's shooting for

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Speaker 1: the next four months or whatever. The studio we normally

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Speaker 1: shoot it in is currently being rented by a movie

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Speaker 1: and they haven't booked to anything. You do the maths

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Speaker 1: on that one, and I kind of hung up, And

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Speaker 1: that was that. Now, when I lost that job, I

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Speaker 1: was broken. I had tied so much of my self worth,

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Speaker 1: so much of my self identity to that gig. I

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Speaker 1: had tethered like a tiny little tinny dragging behind a massive,

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Speaker 1: big cargo.

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Speaker 2: Ship right, like a little runabout.

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Speaker 1: That you you know, you park the cargo ship way

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Speaker 1: out in the harbor and you use the tinny to

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Speaker 1: get to and from right, So, like a tinny tethered

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Speaker 1: to this massive cargo ship, I had tethered my emotional

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Speaker 1: well being, my emotional state, to a source of external

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Speaker 1: validation with absolutely no internal locus of control. So when

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Speaker 1: that gig vanished, the tiny little tinny where my sense

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Speaker 1: of self and my ego had been sitting safely there

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Speaker 1: in the wake of this big, enormous thing powering through

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Speaker 1: the waves. That little tiny was cut adrift in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a global financial crisis, with no power, no sales,

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Speaker 1: no radio, no lifeboat, but a.

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Speaker 2: Whole shitload of whiskey.

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Speaker 1: It was Yeah, that was a compounding factor into what

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Speaker 1: eventually led me finding my way to a sobriety meeting

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Speaker 1: just a few short months later, desperately looking for help.

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Speaker 2: And as I kind of lean.

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Speaker 1: Into that because I had to, as I quite figuratively

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Speaker 1: and literally cleaned up my act, it was very apparent

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Speaker 1: that I had actually not considered the seasonal nature of

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Speaker 1: the industry that I had committed myself to. I had

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Speaker 1: absolutely and quite naively believed the gigs would just.

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Speaker 2: Go on forever.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully, two very very wise people helped me start to

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Speaker 1: think differently about things. There was my mentor, David, who

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Speaker 1: has guided me and helped me as I learn how

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Speaker 1: to live life on life's terms without reaching for things

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Speaker 1: like booze or drugs or pawn or sex or gambling

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Speaker 1: or all At the same time, whenever things feel the

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Speaker 1: slightest bit uncomfortable, he helps me kind of just kind

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Speaker 1: of get through those moments.

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Speaker 2: He still does.

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Speaker 1: He was the man who really held my hand the

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Speaker 1: last time that I got double fired. Actually, it's a

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Speaker 1: moment that I can recall with absolute clarity. I can

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Speaker 1: hear the distinct crackle of the audio in my right

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Speaker 1: ear as I held my iPhone to my right ear,

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Speaker 1: sitting in a hotel room in New York City, and

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Speaker 1: I said to him, with my bottom lip hanging out,

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Speaker 1: but David, I just lost the last two jobs that

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Speaker 1: I've had in the last eighteen hours. And without missing

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Speaker 1: a beat, he says, well, I'm excited for you. Pal

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Speaker 1: means there's bigger.

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Speaker 2: Plans for you. I was pretty shocked.

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Speaker 1: I was shocked that he did not want a front

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Speaker 1: row ticket to the pity party I was saying. So

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Speaker 1: I repeated myself, I don't think you heard me, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm now unemployed, I'm now divorced, I'm now paying rent

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Speaker 1: out of my savings in a foreign country. And again

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Speaker 1: he's like, and I don't think you heard me. I

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Speaker 1: am excited for you. This means there's bigger and better

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Speaker 1: things ahead for you now.

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Speaker 2: Thankfully, I've been working with David.

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Speaker 1: For a while by at this point, so I knew enough,

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Speaker 1: he taught me enough to kind of just take a

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Speaker 1: very deep breath, let it all down, reset, and by

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Speaker 1: the time I breathed back in, I was actually able

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Speaker 1: to let go of that old kind of self pity

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Speaker 1: feeling and embrace a kind of new outlook of possibility.

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Speaker 1: Quite gingerly, but I knew enough to like, well, that's

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Speaker 1: the way I used to do things and it never

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Speaker 1: worked out. But when I do things that he tells

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Speaker 1: me to do, things kind of work out.

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Speaker 2: So I'll just do this.

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Speaker 1: And it was like watching a toddle of first try

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Speaker 1: to climb on that really high bit of the park.

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Speaker 2: Without your help me. You're like, yeah, you got a buddy.

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Speaker 2: Theyre riit wobbly, But it.

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Speaker 1: Was like that now, that reframe absolutely changed everything. Instead

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Speaker 1: of focusing on what I'd lost, which is how I

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Speaker 1: used to be, I was able to put my energy

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Speaker 1: into what was now possible.

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Speaker 2: Instead of answering the question, so what are you working on?

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Speaker 1: Instead of saying, well, I'm not working on anything, I

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Speaker 1: was able to answer, well, I'm not doing anything, which

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Speaker 1: means that the next thing I work on can be anything.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty exciting, and I was very grateful that David

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Speaker 1: actually helped me get to that point. I should mention

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Speaker 1: I was additionally very grateful to my excellent accountant who

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Speaker 1: had helped me save up a couple of months of

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Speaker 1: runway because he was aware of the seasonal nature of

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Speaker 1: my business.

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Speaker 2: Well I was not, and I was very grateful when

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Speaker 2: he called.

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Speaker 1: Me to tell me, so, this is how much he

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Speaker 1: can spend on rent, this is how much it can

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Speaker 1: spend on groceries. You've got about this many months, and

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Speaker 1: I was very grateful that he had done that, and

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Speaker 1: I used that money to pay myself for wage. My

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Speaker 1: new job was to invent the next job I was

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Speaker 1: going to do. That was my job. I got up

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Speaker 1: every day and I had a coffee, went for a run,

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Speaker 1: had a shower, got to my desk, and that's what I.

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Speaker 2: Did every day.

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Speaker 1: And it looked like creating television formats, pitching them to

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Speaker 1: production companies, pitching them to networks. I even enrolled in

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Speaker 1: business school in Amsterdam at the time because the next

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Speaker 1: thing that I did might not have been television. Even

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Speaker 1: though I was paying my own wages, the work was

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Speaker 1: incredibly valuable. It really helped me a keep the blade

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Speaker 1: very sharp, and it also really helped me expand what

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Speaker 1: I thought that I was capable of one of the

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Speaker 1: shows I pitched was a dating show and a network

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Speaker 1: in Australia actually bought it.

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Speaker 2: In the room.

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Speaker 1: A few months into the pre production, that very same

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Speaker 1: network called to say, hey, we've just quite a different

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Speaker 1: dating show, would I be interested in hosting that one

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Speaker 1: instead of the one that we were working on, And

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Speaker 1: that was May twenty thirteen. It was Network ten and

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Speaker 1: that was The Bachelor of Australia. So after that season

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Speaker 1: I went back to Australia. And if there's one thing

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Speaker 1: about Americans, if one thing they love at success or

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Speaker 1: creating success. And if there's one thing I love more,

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Speaker 1: it's getting in with someone who's already a success. So

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Speaker 1: in the game that I'm in, if you are a

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Speaker 1: person who's hosted a big brand franchise like that, it

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Speaker 1: gives you a bit of leverage. And I was able

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Speaker 1: and immensely lucky to regain contact and once again work

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Speaker 1: with my former manager, the late John Ferrier, an absolute

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Speaker 1: mogul of the television industry. He ruled the world of

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Speaker 1: nonscript and entertainment for decades. A good manager in our

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Speaker 1: is this fantastic combination of wisdom and strength, and John

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Speaker 1: had both in spades, and speaking to him was like

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Speaker 1: I was like sitting at the foot of an oracle

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Speaker 1: of showbiz. Just his every sentence could be the title

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Speaker 1: of the next massive business book. At two of his

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Speaker 1: best actually have really been with me these last couple

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Speaker 1: of days. He once said to me, listen, unless you

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Speaker 1: host the six o'clock news one day, that big show

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Speaker 1: you're on is going to get canceled. So when you

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Speaker 1: book that big show, you need to make it a

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Speaker 1: part of your week.

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Speaker 2: Every week.

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Speaker 1: You need to allocate time every week to essentially planning

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Speaker 1: for the day after that big show doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Get rid of it, because it's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: This podcast is a result of me hearing that sentence.

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Speaker 1: Why I am rather right now is an extension of

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Speaker 1: that entire concept.

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Speaker 2: There's a few things about the entertainment industry that not

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Speaker 2: a lot of people realize.

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Speaker 1: One which I love. It's show business, not show friends.

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Speaker 1: You can be super tight with everyone on your production team.

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Speaker 1: You could be high fiving camera operators and cable guys

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Speaker 1: and go to the first birthday parties of producers and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: You can know everyone at the network.

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Speaker 1: You can even be driving a free client car around

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Speaker 1: like you've stolen it. Thank you Master for giving me

300
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Speaker 1: that Turbo MX five twenty years ago.

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Speaker 2: It was fucking incredible. It was a really good car.

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Speaker 1: But however, the moment that all those things no longer

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Speaker 1: make good business sense, the moment all those things stop

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Speaker 1: making money, it's over the click of a finger. And

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Speaker 1: I wish i'd realized that earlier. The ups and downs

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Speaker 1: of this gig would have been a lot easier for

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Speaker 1: me to bear. I had come to I came to

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Speaker 1: realize it.

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Speaker 2: It was forced upon me, but it was. Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: was quite awake up call.

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Speaker 1: As far as the second thing that I'd say really

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Speaker 1: helps me tell you that after a break come, I've

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Speaker 1: got to pay the bills, guys. The second thing that

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Speaker 1: I would say, in the entertainment industry, and possibly in others,

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Speaker 1: but definitely in the entertainment industry, it's either a fast

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Speaker 1: yes or a slow no. I have become better at

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Speaker 1: spotting the slow no. I kind of spotted a bit

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Speaker 1: earlier and earlier every time. When I was in breakfast

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Speaker 1: radio up in Brisbane, I could see a slow no

320
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Speaker 1: just kind of appear on the horizon and before it

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Speaker 1: came up to me and made that choice for me.

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Speaker 1: I was able to plan a delicate exit.

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Speaker 2: Shall we say the current slow no.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully I had spotted quite a while back, but you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have known it looking from the outside in. I

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00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 1: had learned through my own mental health journey. I started

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Speaker 1: as an emergency contingency plan for when I was having

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Speaker 1: a really frightening day. I had learned that the antidote

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Speaker 1: to panic is a plan so similar to if you

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Speaker 1: go to the ABC in Australia and National broadcast. If

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Speaker 1: you go to the ABC, in every single radio studio

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Speaker 1: there is a folder full of clear action steps for

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Speaker 1: when a raining monarch dies. It's there, sitting in the

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Speaker 1: corner of every single studio. So, even though I was

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Speaker 1: still shooting, my contingency plan slowly became my main mode

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Speaker 1: of operation. Owardly, it looked like things were just as normal,

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Speaker 1: but we had activated this way of working quite importantly. Audrey,

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Speaker 1: my wife, we had discussed this distant possibility. It was

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Speaker 1: quite a distant possibility when we discussed it and started

340
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Speaker 1: talking about it. We talked about it well before we

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Speaker 1: ever got visual confirm that this was probably going to happen.

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Speaker 1: And about a year ago I started to put everything

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Speaker 1: into place, kind of changing the way that I structured

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Speaker 1: my business, streamlining things, allocating resources where I had to,

345
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Speaker 1: hiring people to help me where I had blind spots.

346
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Speaker 2: And importantly I started.

347
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Speaker 1: Working with Ben Richardson, who was my former boss at

348
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Speaker 1: Channel V and went off to gain decades of experience

349
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Speaker 1: as a CEO in my industry. It is incredibly successful

350
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Speaker 1: by and he'd gotten out of the thing he was

351
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Speaker 1: doing before and he wanted to explore doing other things,

352
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Speaker 1: and he and I started working together and he really

353
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Speaker 1: pushed me, and I'm really grateful. He really helped me

354
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Speaker 1: really notice the difference between what's a great idea and

355
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Speaker 1: a great idea where their business case makes sense.

356
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Speaker 2: And that was hard at first, because you know, I

357
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Speaker 2: profit did this, What about that?

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Speaker 1: You know, I get very excited about ideas. Was like, yeah, again,

359
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 1: show business, not show friends. So having been around has

360
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: been really, really, really good. And so while I was

361
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,679
Speaker 1: screaming take it off and counting flowers in a whisper

362
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: in the background, the projects that I had been allocating

363
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Speaker 1: that time to develop, they were literally they were put at.

364
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Speaker 2: The top of the trolleyboard.

365
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Speaker 1: By the time we got the confirmation that we were

366
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: expecting was going to happen, that Bachelor and Mask weren't

367
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Speaker 1: coming back on the network this year. For us, it

368
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 1: was a seamless transition from one mode of operation and

369
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 1: one way of generating income to another, like an emergency

370
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 1: generator kicking in. There was a it was a slight

371
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 1: flicker of lights. Is the ups handed over? For Other

372
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: than that, you probably wouldn't notice anything different except that

373
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Speaker 1: Dad's around.

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Speaker 2: The house a bit more. Now, I won't lie to you.

375
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Speaker 1: I have had to do a heap of work around

376
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 1: the self worth and the self entitlement piece, but that

377
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: is all a part of it, because I've pretty much known.

378
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,880
Speaker 1: I've had a fairly solid idea that the slow note

379
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 1: started to get real slow around late last year, and

380
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Speaker 1: I had a fairly decent idea that.

381
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Speaker 2: This was going to happen.

382
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: And while I hadn't been given the official word, it

383
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm just going to get ready for

384
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: that and be not surprised when I hear the news,

385
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: versus expect that everything's going.

386
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 2: Back and be very surprised when I hear the news.

387
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: So what does that look like? Well, in that time, completely, honestly,

388
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,239
Speaker 1: I've woken up, you know, with resentment and entitlement and

389
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: sometimes anger, just all at once. And I wake up

390
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: in the morning and rather than make any choices or

391
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,439
Speaker 1: make any decisions in that emotionally reactive space I don't know,

392
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: like seeing a text or an email or taking out

393
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: someone around me, I have worked to try to notice

394
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: those feelings and then say to myself, how fascinating look

395
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 1: at that. There's a part of me that's angry at

396
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: insert nice TV person here, angry at them for getting

397
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: a gig on insert TV show which I believe that

398
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 1: I should do instead here. Ah, well, that's interesting, isn't it.

399
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 2: Tell you what.

400
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to make a cup of coffee. I'm going

401
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: to sit down and write out all the things that

402
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm angry at, resentful at. I'm going to write them

403
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: all down on the right hand side of my notebook.

404
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 1: This guy gets all the gigs, his podcast is huge,

405
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: he's got that massive sponsorship deal, you know, with a

406
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: good year blimp. Like, write all that stuff down, and

407
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: then on the left side of the page, line by line,

408
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm going.

409
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 2: To write two words. I'm going to write, of course,

410
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 2: at the start of every one of those things. So

411
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: now it reads. Of course that guy gets all the gigs.

412
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 2: Of Course his podcast is huge. Of Course he's got

413
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 2: that massive sponsorship deal with a good Year Blimp.

414
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: Of course he's got that gig on that TV show.

415
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: And then I was kind of sit there and look

416
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: at that and kind of really it really helped me.

417
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: Kind of process that.

418
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: Wolfgang actually asked me this morning, he got up a

419
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 1: little after I did, and he asked, what are you writing, Dad?

420
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: I said, well, sometimes when I've got a lot of

421
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: feelings and I don't know what to do with them,

422
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: all I write him down and they can have a

423
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: look at him and sort of them out like a

424
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: lego box. And he's like, I kind of understood it.

425
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: Now a version of me doing that happened.

426
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: Probably it could happen anywhere between once or twice a week,

427
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: every fortnight, a couple of days in a row sometimes,

428
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: but that's been happening for the last couple of months.

429
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: And even though it was uncomfortable, all that work was

430
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: uncomfortable to do, I'm not going to lie. By the

431
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: time I actually got given the news, which was lovely,

432
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: that was actually given the news face to face, I

433
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: was able to say something along the lines. Of of course,

434
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: I totally get it. It's really tough to commission anything

435
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: in this market. At the moment, I love working with you.

436
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: The team are fantastic. I love these formats. They just

437
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: the best fun.

438
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: Ever.

439
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: If there's ever a chance that they get up again,

440
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: I will be first in line to show to you

441
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: that I am the undeniable.

442
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 2: Choice to host them again. But it's been awesome, thank you.

443
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: And all of that is the truth. That is not

444
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: me making anything up. All of that is the truth.

445
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: I just had to get all of my fucking hurt

446
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: and anger and all the entitlement and shit out of

447
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,479
Speaker 1: the way because all that stuff that's just me as

448
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 1: a reactive, petulant child. Unfortunately, sometimes he can take the wheel,

449
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: and the wreckage that kid has caused my life, the

450
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: lives of others, my health, my career, that wreckage is immense.

451
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: So it's worth the work to keep that guy in

452
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: the back seat. You know, he's around, he's noisy, but

453
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: he doesn't tends not to take the wheel too much. Now,

454
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: of course I'm disappointed that Bachelora is not coming back,

455
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: and of course I'm disappointed in Massinger is not coming back.

456
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: I adore making those.

457
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: Shows, and I love it because, yeah, they're super fun

458
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: to watch, and I love the fact that I give

459
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 1: people who otherwise don't know each other something to talk about.

460
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: You know, did you see Sam and Stans? Did you

461
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: see who was under the mask of the toolbox or

462
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: whatever it is? I love that part. I love that

463
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: I would get sent pictures of an Ikea couch built

464
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: for three with five people on it when it was

465
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: batch night, like.

466
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: I love that part of the job.

467
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: I also I get to work with the most marvelous

468
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 1: people in my industry who just all of it has

469
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: made just great, entertaining, compelling television, great storytellers, every one

470
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: of them.

471
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 2: I've got to go to work to help people fall

472
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: in love. That was my job. What an incredible gig

473
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: to have.

474
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: I have played a small part in some of the

475
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: most wonderful, loving relationships.

476
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: That have brought many, many wonderful, beautiful, very well loved

477
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 2: babies into the world. That's incredible.

478
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: I met my wife working on one of these shows.

479
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: Getting on these kind of shows and working at that

480
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: level has really pushed me to not only want to

481
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: get better with my mental health, but also just get

482
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: better and better at what I do, and these gigs

483
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: have pushed me to seek higher and higher standards for

484
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: myself when it comes to delivery, execution, or professionalism, Like,

485
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: that's real thrill out of doing that, and that's so

486
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: much fun to do. It's so fun. What an incredible

487
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: thing I get to say about a job?

488
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: How has worked? So fun? There was fireworks? I danced.

489
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: One of my favorite films. I quote it a fair bit.

490
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: One of my favorite films is a film called Polp Fiction.

491
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, I envy you because I

492
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: would love to go back in time and have not

493
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: seen pop fiction for the first time and have the

494
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: experience of watching it for the first time again. But

495
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: there's a moment in Polp Fiction where Butch Coolidge says

496
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: to Marcellus Wallace, what now. I'll tell you what now.

497
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: It's got to do with one more thing that John

498
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: taught me. I actually had John ferred on my podcast

499
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: quite close to the start. I think in the second

500
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: year I was doing the show, episode eighty. If you

501
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: scroll back you can find it, or you can go

502
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: to Ochigon's but Common search for it.

503
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: You'll find it there.

504
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: Now John had told me all the stuff that he

505
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: says in the podcast. A lot of the stuff he

506
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: says in the podcast he told me previously, But when

507
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: I interviewed him, I was kind of able. I kind

508
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: of knew the kind of things I wanted need to

509
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: say and help get him to talk about the kind

510
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: of stuff, the wisdom that he would give to me

511
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 1: out So I got some of his greatest hits out

512
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: of it, and I'm really happy that I did.

513
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: And you get to actually hear him say this thing

514
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 2: in the episode The Thing about to tell you.

515
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: It's about who gets to be the one who gets

516
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: to do the big gig, who gets to make the thing.

517
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: He leaned forward in his chair across his desk and

518
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: he's sitting under a photo of him jamming with Paul McCartney,

519
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: mind you, and he looks me in the eye says, someone's.

520
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: Going to be the next hit songwriter. Why shouldn't it

521
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: be you?

522
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: Giving myself permission to my only dream big, but execute

523
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: big and really swing for the fences. That has changed

524
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: my life. One day I just woke up and realized

525
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: the difference between me and people who have a podcast

526
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: is one day they just started. So I just started,

527
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: and I figured it out as I went and that's what.

528
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: Now, what a gift? What an absolute gift.

529
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: I've just turned fifty and look at this absolucking lily

530
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: incredible birthday present. I've just got an opportunity to can

531
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: fairly radically reinvent what.

532
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: It is that I do. And I know it works

533
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 2: because I've done it before.

534
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: Honestly, all it took was changing my mind from thinking, oh,

535
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: I know that sort of thing is for other people

536
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: who've got connections and capital and way lower body.

537
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: Fat than I do, so I won't even none.

538
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: Changing my mind from that to that sounds exactly like

539
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that I could do.

540
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 2: Pass me the post it notes, let's go. I leave

541
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: you with one more super duper reframe that I use.

542
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: If the childish resentment demo Gorgan starts to reach for

543
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: the steering.

544
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: Wheel, He's got a lot of arms.

545
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: It's a moment between Michael Corleoni and Hyman Roth in

546
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: the film Godfather Part two.

547
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: Hyman Roth is this kind of gangster.

548
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: Down in Florida, I think, and he's talking about one

549
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: of his close mates that got whacked, and he say

550
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: to Michael Corloni, who ordered the whacking, I never complained

551
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: because it was business, and this is the business we

552
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: have chosen. I work in a legacy industry that is

553
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: undergoing an enormous market correction. It's either the most terrifying

554
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: time to be in the entertainment business or the most

555
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: exciting time to be in the entertainment business. I like

556
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: to think it's the most exciting time. And this is

557
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: the business I have chosen. I chose this life. I

558
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: can unchoose it anytime I want. And today, even with

559
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: everything that you know about, thanks to the work that

560
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: I've done and thanks to people like Audrey and Ben

561
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: have helped me do that work, It's a choice that

562
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: I'm happy and grateful that I get to make, and

563
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: I feel great about it. Thanks for listening. I hope

564
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: you got something out of that. I'll see you Monday.

565
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: This episode was brought to you by Andy Maer on

566
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: audio post production, mikey Ward on video post production, Jazz

567
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: Fenton Menzies on copy Toe hired.

568
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: I made all the music.

569
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: My producer is Brey Steele. My executive function assystant Is

570
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: Minica Chapman. For more episodes in the mailing list, head

571
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: to oshat Ginsburg dot com. Thanks for listening, see you Monday,