Speaker 1: I can remember being in America what thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: and being in LA and the only thing on the
Speaker 1: news every night, on every channel was the Menendez trial.
Speaker 1: It was riveting them to see it in the fletch.
Speaker 1: And now, of course we're thinking they might have been
Speaker 1: sinned against.
Speaker 2: The central character of the first season, who was also
Speaker 2: the central character of the second one, surrounded himself with
Speaker 2: so many odd balls and weirdos and people with stories
Speaker 2: to tell, and they tell those stories.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes, and we're
Speaker 1: coming into that season, which in newspapers and the media
Speaker 1: generally we call it the silly season, and that just
Speaker 1: means it's summertime and a lot of us will go
Speaker 1: away from the big bad city to some sleepy beach
Speaker 1: or whatever, and there we will waste time, get sunburnt,
Speaker 1: drink beer and other fluids, and read books and watch
Speaker 1: screens because that's how we pass time. And for that reason,
Speaker 1: we're going to mention some of our favorite things. It's
Speaker 1: not a comprehensive list, but producer John Burton and myself
Speaker 1: have picked up a few clues this year about what
Speaker 1: we like to read and to watch, and we thought
Speaker 1: we would pass on our tips for what they're worth.
Speaker 1: First of all, of course, John, we will do some
Speaker 1: naked self interest. I should actually call a book naked
Speaker 1: self interest. That would be very good.
Speaker 3: It's a good title. It's a good title.
Speaker 1: But as I should not have mentioned that, someone else
Speaker 1: will now pinch it. Naked self interest dictates that I
Speaker 1: plug two books published this year under my byline, and
Speaker 1: the first is most excellent book called Life and Crimes,
Speaker 1: the same name as the podcast published by McMillan, my
Speaker 1: very good friends at McMillan, who I'm very fond of.
Speaker 1: And it's a collection of true crime stories funnily enough
Speaker 1: and a.
Speaker 2: Lot of sort of stories without giving too much away
Speaker 2: could a reader.
Speaker 1: Many of them have been touched on in the podcasts,
Speaker 1: but some may not have. Just for those who like
Speaker 1: to read a well curated, well edited collection of true stories,
Speaker 1: it hits the mark. However, of course, time passes, and
Speaker 1: what happened this year was the Easy Street result, where
Speaker 1: police have brought back from Rome a Greek Australian dual
Speaker 1: citizen Perry Kurumblus to face charges of murder over the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven Easy Street case and Funnily enough, John,
Speaker 1: I've been able to get out a book of short
Speaker 1: true stories, the longest one of which is about Easy Street,
Speaker 1: and it has now become Chapter one. And that book,
Speaker 1: which has just hit the shelves in the last fortnight,
Speaker 1: is called Rule on Crime. On the cover of this
Speaker 1: new edition of Rule on Crime, it has the subtitle
Speaker 1: Murder on Easy Stay.
Speaker 3: So that's just so.
Speaker 1: Our listeners will know that the one they need is
Speaker 1: the one that says murder on Easy Street because it
Speaker 1: has the latest and brightest developments in that story. So
Speaker 1: two books, two books, which I have to say are
Speaker 1: very similar, and I would advise people out there that
Speaker 1: if they buy one, do not buy the.
Speaker 2: Other, or they could buy the other for a friend
Speaker 2: or relative.
Speaker 1: They could buy the other one for a friend or relative,
Speaker 1: and I wish they would, but please buy two by
Speaker 1: all means, but don't expect that you'll find vastly different
Speaker 1: stories between the two.
Speaker 2: So if you are listening to this before Christmas, and
Speaker 2: hopefully we will have this episode out before Christmas, great
Speaker 2: books to give to friends, families, loved ones, acquaintances, work, colleagues.
Speaker 1: True Now, in the interest of hands across the water,
Speaker 1: we must also mention my former colleague and great friend
Speaker 1: John Sylvester, who has a new book out which is
Speaker 1: called Dark City, which follows up his very successful book
Speaker 1: Naked City, published by our friends at McMillan. Dark Cities
Speaker 1: just out and is an excellent collection of stuff, very
Speaker 1: handsome book. And John will be very happy to hear
Speaker 1: that we've mentioned his book because he mentions ours on
Speaker 1: three our w Oh, that's very kind of him, sly
Speaker 1: of the underworld.
Speaker 3: He's that sort of blow.
Speaker 2: So Naked City. You don't know where that name comes from.
Speaker 2: Certainly get the book, don't look it up for any
Speaker 2: other purpose.
Speaker 1: No, that's right, I'm true. Now we're doing around the
Speaker 1: grounds on books and films. This is not comprehensive. They're
Speaker 1: just a few things that come to mind. There's one
Speaker 1: that came out this year. We interviewed the author The
Speaker 1: Kingpin and the Crooked Cop, and that is by an
Speaker 1: excellent Sydney journalist called Neil Mercer. We are critics of
Speaker 1: Sydney things often down here in Melbourne.
Speaker 3: Quite rightly, we'll work quite rightly.
Speaker 1: But I've always had a high opinion of Sydney journalists.
Speaker 1: I think that several of them are very very good
Speaker 1: and we have respect and Neil Mercer is right up
Speaker 1: there always has been ranging around the grounds. Again, we
Speaker 1: have the Definity of Easy Street book by our great
Speaker 1: friend Helen Thomas. It is called Murder on Easy Street
Speaker 1: and Helen has done an updated version of that book
Speaker 1: and she's been in Melbourne this very week that we're
Speaker 1: recording to see Perry Krumblas the suspect in court. And
Speaker 1: the time will come next year when she will do
Speaker 1: a third edition of that book with the latest material
Speaker 1: in it. It's a very good project that she's undertaken.
Speaker 1: I work with Helen at the age more than forty
Speaker 1: years ago and for a respectable bishop's daughter. She's done
Speaker 1: a lot of very tough stories.
Speaker 2: And she was on the show a couple of times
Speaker 2: this year, most recently talking about developments, although not the
Speaker 2: Perry Crumblas development, but other development developments in the Easy
Speaker 2: Street case. She was also so on a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago. Will put the names of the shows that
Speaker 2: she has been on in the description of this episode
Speaker 2: so you can go back and listen to her talk
Speaker 2: about the Easy streetcase.
Speaker 1: That's good and also if you have a little flutter
Speaker 1: on the horses save you five dollars each way or whatever.
Speaker 1: Helen bought a horse in New Zealand, a young horse
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, for about two and a
Speaker 1: half thousand dollars, which is not much, and she and
Speaker 1: others brought this horse back to Australia and he races
Speaker 1: under the name of Stylish Secret, and he has turned
Speaker 1: into quite.
Speaker 3: A successful little race horse.
Speaker 1: He's only a little feller, but he's out in the
Speaker 1: paddic at the minute. He's one more than one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in steake. He's going to come back in
Speaker 1: and we are barracking for Stylish Secret to win races
Speaker 1: in the autumn, and our listeners should keep an eye
Speaker 1: open for him because he's a very heartwarming story.
Speaker 3: An early tip, early tip.
Speaker 2: Also, Neil has also been on the show talking the
Speaker 2: Kingpin and the Crooked Cop. Will put a link in
Speaker 2: the description to that show as well, because he was
Speaker 2: very good on the show.
Speaker 3: Terrific bog. Now.
Speaker 1: One of the others up there, of course, is Kate mcclemont.
Speaker 1: She's going very well at the minute. She's really sticking
Speaker 1: the boots into a low called Alan Jones.
Speaker 3: Oh so there you go.
Speaker 2: I've been in the news as well.
Speaker 3: Yes, Kate is a.
Speaker 1: Very tough unit. I wouldn't want to cross Kate. She'd
Speaker 1: fix you right up.
Speaker 3: She's good.
Speaker 1: Now, some people we can't get on.
Speaker 3: The show, although we can try.
Speaker 1: We have had Don Winslow, the great American true crime
Speaker 1: and also fiction author. Wonderful author. If you're wondering what
Speaker 1: to read over summer, I suspected almost anything by Don Winslow.
Speaker 3: It fits the bill.
Speaker 1: Another great American author ex journo. I tend to like
Speaker 1: them true crime writers who go from newspapers into writing fiction.
Speaker 1: One of the best of the is a guy called
Speaker 1: Carl Hyason who comes out of Florida, Miami, and he
Speaker 1: writes a particularly funny brand of fictional crime. And he's
Speaker 1: good news. Carl Hyason.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, he's always talking about Tallahassee and the goings
Speaker 2: on in Tallahassee. Did he not do the book that
Speaker 2: was then turned into a film starring strip Teas starring
Speaker 2: Demi Moore.
Speaker 1: I think that is precisely the sort of title he uses.
Speaker 1: He has excellent titles and strip teas. I think he's
Speaker 1: one of them. He's a very funny guy. And his books,
Speaker 1: although they're sort of comic and comedic and tongue in cheek,
Speaker 1: are good in it. As a really top end crime
Speaker 1: reporter in his day on the big paper down in Miami,
Speaker 1: Miami Herald, I think he knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 3: So his characters are very well.
Speaker 1: Grounded in real people in some ways, and he understands
Speaker 1: the process of storytelling and how to make it sort
Speaker 1: of sound realistic, although clearly then true stories. Another one
Speaker 1: like that in America is from Boston. Different kettle of
Speaker 1: fish altogether, not the same Boston as Forloridda very different.
Speaker 1: Mone's sort of like far North Queensland and Mon's Melbourne.
Speaker 3: That's different.
Speaker 1: But the man in Boston has been dead for a
Speaker 1: long time. But he was a great, great crime writer,
Speaker 1: a guy called George V. For Victor V. Higgins, and
Speaker 1: George V. Higgins was a crime lawyer, I think a prosecutor.
Speaker 1: He was a lecturer in I think literature, and he
Speaker 1: was also a very successful crime author. And he died
Speaker 1: in his fifties. So this guy jammed a lot of
Speaker 1: achievements into a fairly short working life. His greatest work
Speaker 1: and one that has been a big influence on a
Speaker 1: lot of writers and also led to films and things
Speaker 1: like that. Is a book called The Friends of Eddie Coyle.
Speaker 1: The Friends of Eddie Coyle is a wonderful book for
Speaker 1: some people. It's just straight dialogue almost it's almost like
Speaker 1: watching real life. He doesn't paint pictures. He just lets
Speaker 1: these guys tell their stories in their dialogue with each other,
Speaker 1: and after a while you realize where the story is heading.
Speaker 1: And it's extremely chilling. And if you like it, you
Speaker 1: can then find some of his other books which are
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 2: So I'm listening to Friends of Eddie Coyle at your
Speaker 2: recommendation right now.
Speaker 3: How are you and how's it going?
Speaker 2: Well, it's very interesting, because I should say listeners. If
Speaker 2: you are on Spotify, it is available through that as
Speaker 2: an audiobook, and so that's the version that I've been
Speaker 2: listening to. Is I go about my day and it's
Speaker 2: quite like another book, Trainspotting. It is you learn the
Speaker 2: cadence and the speech patterns of some of the characters
Speaker 2: in the book, and from that you can produce what's
Speaker 2: going on. What's going on?
Speaker 3: It is very it's as tough.
Speaker 1: As Irving walshap something completely different. Now, not everyone's going
Speaker 1: to love George V. Higgins. That's sort of dense and
Speaker 1: it's tough, and that's very much of its time.
Speaker 3: True, But it also.
Speaker 1: Established a new type of literature in a way, anyway,
Speaker 1: something different, completely very English, very sort of Midsummer Murders
Speaker 1: in its way, but clever, smart, great publishing. All the
Speaker 1: books by Richard Osmond. You know, there's Thursday Murder Club.
Speaker 1: We chase killers or something and we investigate murders whatever.
Speaker 1: But he's got a whole series of these and they're
Speaker 1: a little bit sort of cute, kitchen table type stuff,
Speaker 1: very tongue in cheek, very clever, very English, and they
Speaker 1: are enormously popular. These are one of the biggest wishing
Speaker 1: phenomenons since Harry Potter. That's how big they are, and
Speaker 1: that can't all be wrong. And I noticed that I
Speaker 1: read one last week that my wife said I should read,
Speaker 1: and I think she was right. It's very easy reading
Speaker 1: and great summer reading.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: He's also on a podcast called The Rest Is Entertainment
Speaker 2: with a woman named Marina Hine, and she is a
Speaker 2: columnist talking about media matters over in the UK. I
Speaker 2: think Richmond Osmond is also sort of part of the
Speaker 2: quiz Juicy does things like.
Speaker 1: Pointless, very clever guy, very clever sort of in that
Speaker 1: that Stephen Frye. You know these guys with brains about
Speaker 1: as big as Tasmania, who can actually turn their hand
Speaker 1: to almost anything. The TV producers, but they're also quiz masters.
Speaker 1: They're also often they're poets and novelists and everything else.
Speaker 1: It's quite astonishing how good they are. And he's one
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: And for our first podcast recommendation, if you are interested
Speaker 2: in entertainment and also probably entertainment with an English or
Speaker 2: a UK sort of bias, Rest Is Entertainment is a
Speaker 2: very good show, as is the rest of their stable.
Speaker 2: There's a podcast company called Goalhanger and they put out
Speaker 2: The Rest Is Entertainment, The Rest is History, which is
Speaker 2: two historians talking about historical matters, as you would expect
Speaker 2: from that title. They also do a World War two
Speaker 2: podcast called We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Oh
Speaker 2: that's Gal, which is brilliant, and they also have one
Speaker 2: called The Rest Is Classified, which they've just started up.
Speaker 3: Oh Lovely, which is espionage.
Speaker 2: Yespiona, So it's a former I think CIA analyst talking
Speaker 2: with a former reporter. I think still a reporter on
Speaker 2: matters of clandestine goings on, and their first couple of
Speaker 2: episodes have been pretty good. They've talked about one of
Speaker 2: the Iran KuPS and the CIA and MI six parts
Speaker 2: to play in at an all involved sort of half
Speaker 2: drunk operatives from various parts of Lord going in and
Speaker 2: doing things, and.
Speaker 1: It's frightening the world. Peace relies on who drank vodka?
Speaker 2: Well, that's not that's it and it's a roaring talk.
Speaker 1: Well, while on the English oldie and goldie just a
Speaker 1: very fine writer. Who is Kate Atkinson. I won't bother
Speaker 1: going through all the titles she's written, but everything she
Speaker 1: writes is very readable. There is one collection of short
Speaker 1: stories of hers which are beautifully written. They're a little
Speaker 1: bit odd, bit strange, they're not sort of factual, they're
Speaker 1: not like real life. They're a bit magical. But her
Speaker 1: novels great Who Done It? They're really classy, stylish. She's
Speaker 1: a beautiful writer. Another one who also qualifies as a
Speaker 1: crackerjack sort of who Done It? Thriller writer, but also
Speaker 1: quite a high level literary writer in his way is
Speaker 1: Mick Heron. Now we've probably mentioned him in other years
Speaker 1: but Mick Heron spelt with hg N is the guy
Speaker 1: who created Slow Horses, which was a book that he wrote,
Speaker 1: along with several other books featuring a broken down British
Speaker 1: spy called Jackson Lamb, who is a shambolic, smelly, grubby, grubby, greasy,
Speaker 1: broken down left over from the Cold War. And this
Speaker 1: guy runs all these broken down spies in London in
Speaker 1: a broken down building in London, and it's very funny.
Speaker 3: But also very tough and out of it.
Speaker 1: Of course, out of these excellent books which I've been
Speaker 1: reading over the years has come an excellent series streamer
Speaker 1: series called Slow Horses, And as an indicator of the
Speaker 1: quality of it, the lead part of the said Jackson
Speaker 1: Lamb is played by the most excellent actor, Gary Oldman,
Speaker 1: and the theme song is written and performed by a
Speaker 1: blow called Mick Jagger. Have you ever heard of him?
Speaker 1: It is so good, so good, you'll never regret watching it.
Speaker 2: He abused that sense of sort of broken down.
Speaker 1: Perfect but he thinks about boozers and losers in an
Speaker 1: accent like that.
Speaker 2: And Gary Oldman in some of those scenes really looks
Speaker 2: like he's sort of just gotten himself out of a
Speaker 2: relationship Shop, And.
Speaker 1: Now we've sort of moving into the TV series, aren't we.
Speaker 1: Have you seen anything this year that you'd recommend John.
Speaker 2: So there's a couple of documentaries on streaming services that
Speaker 2: I absolutely can A couple of them, I suppose would
Speaker 2: be good for people who, as I did, didn't really
Speaker 2: get into the story when it happened, and they are
Speaker 2: who killed John Beney Ramsey? What is a great story,
Speaker 2: a very sort of chilling story but had a lot
Speaker 2: of twist and turns. And they mentioned this in the documentary,
Speaker 2: but because there was so much footage of young John Benet,
Speaker 2: because for those of you who don't know the story
Speaker 2: was a young girl that went missing in Boulder, Colorado
Speaker 2: in I think the late nineties, and she was a contestant,
Speaker 2: a frequent contestant on junior beauty pageant competitions. And this
Speaker 2: documentary series, and it's only a few episodes, goes through
Speaker 2: the disappearance and the finding of the body and all
Speaker 2: goes into spoilers, but there's sort of many twists and
Speaker 2: turns in that case, and it doesn't stand out as
Speaker 2: a piece of sort of art, but as a good
Speaker 2: primer as to what Happened. It's a quite good piece
Speaker 2: of who did what happened?
Speaker 1: One of the great great stories, no doubt. I've seen
Speaker 1: quite a few good series this year and would recommend
Speaker 1: them a couple of Irish. One of those is kin
Speaker 1: kin as in Ki N and I would suggest that
Speaker 1: it's the Irish equivalent of the Sopranos, which goes to
Speaker 1: its top quality. It's fearsome casting, it's very tough plotting,
Speaker 1: and really it's very tough ending.
Speaker 3: It's great stuff.
Speaker 2: Like I sort of a mafia, Irish mafia.
Speaker 1: Mafia totally, and it is an indicator of what I
Speaker 1: believe to be a true story, and that is that
Speaker 1: there is no Italian mafia in Belfast at least, and
Speaker 1: this might point out why because the locals are a
Speaker 1: little bit tasty. There is another Irish series I intend
Speaker 1: to watch over Christmas and that he's Say Nothing. When
Speaker 1: I say Irish, it's set largely in Ireland.
Speaker 3: It's about the troubles.
Speaker 1: It's based on the most excellent nonfiction book of the
Speaker 1: same title, Say Nothing, by a wonderful journalist and author
Speaker 1: called Patrick raden Keif, and Patrick raden Keff's sort of
Speaker 1: Boston Irish He's an American of Irish descent, but I
Speaker 1: believe his mother was an Aussie. So he's the internation,
Speaker 1: truly international act and his books are wonderful. His other
Speaker 1: big one is Empire of Pain, which is about the
Speaker 1: opioid crisis and the courses of it, and it also
Speaker 1: has spawned a big streamer series not under that name.
Speaker 2: Note speaking of streaming, we've talked about who killed John
Speaker 2: Bene Ramsey, but there's also one about the Menandez brothers,
Speaker 2: called the Menandez Brothers very good, and they obviously in
Speaker 2: the news again. Now.
Speaker 1: Yes, I can remember being in America what thirty years
Speaker 1: ago and being in LA and the only thing on
Speaker 1: the news every night, on every channel was the Menendez trial.
Speaker 1: It was rivoting to see it in the flesh. And
Speaker 1: now it's come up again and now of course we're
Speaker 1: thinking they might have been sinned against, which makes sense
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and this documentary goes into that. But it's
Speaker 2: interesting because I was post OJ. It was one of
Speaker 2: the big cases that was all in front of the cameras.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's up there with OJA, isn't it. It's
Speaker 1: sort of the justice system on show with a camera
Speaker 1: on every angle. It's astonishing.
Speaker 2: Another one that takes a different tack. This one is
Speaker 2: very much more of a in some ways a traditional
Speaker 2: style of documentary, but also I think does things that
Speaker 2: other documentaries don't do. And that's the second season of
Speaker 2: the Jinx.
Speaker 1: I remember the original one, and it's as good as
Speaker 1: the first one.
Speaker 2: It's not as groundbreaking as the first one. The first
Speaker 2: one again had a lot going for it, had a
Speaker 2: lot going for it. And if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 2: go see it because the ending of that is one
Speaker 2: of the more chilling endings of a documentary that you'll see.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, wonderful, wonderful place of work.
Speaker 2: This one has, I think something that a lot of
Speaker 2: documentaries shy away from or just don't capture, and that
Speaker 2: is character. Robert Durst, the central character of the first season,
Speaker 2: who was also the central character of the second one,
Speaker 2: surrounded himself with so many odd balls and weird and
Speaker 2: people with stories to tell them. They tell those stories.
Speaker 2: And the director, a guy called Andrew Jireki, has plied
Speaker 2: his trades through his entire career, really bringing character as
Speaker 2: a major part of his documentaries. He did one a
Speaker 2: few years ago called capturing the Freedman's Yes, I remember that,
Speaker 2: so about a spooky, very spooky about a father and
Speaker 2: a son who were both sent down for fairly awful
Speaker 2: crimes against children. But throughout the documentary this Andrew Jureki,
Speaker 2: he just asks questions. He asks questions of people who
Speaker 2: were the witnesses and the trials, people who were involved
Speaker 2: in the trials, and again the characters came out, and
Speaker 2: he had access, not unlike the Menendez or John Bna case,
Speaker 2: to a whole bunch of videos so he could make
Speaker 2: it incredibly rich. A lot of home video from the
Speaker 2: capturing from the Freedman's.
Speaker 1: Wonderful when they've got an opportunity to mine that material,
Speaker 1: just thinking it's not crime but fascinating. The It and
Speaker 1: Senner documentary about the racing Drover and Amy Weinehouse, Yes,
Speaker 1: one called one's called Senna and one's called Amy, I think.
Speaker 1: But wonderful life stories but broad to life because each
Speaker 1: of them grew up at a time and were a
Speaker 1: sufficient interest that people filmed them a lot, so that
Speaker 1: every part of their life has been filmed.
Speaker 3: YEP.
Speaker 1: It's an incredible thing to have if you're a documentary maker,
Speaker 1: which doesn't.
Speaker 3: Apply to you know a lot of us.
Speaker 1: Our lives aren't recorded on video, and therefore it's very
Speaker 1: hard to reconstruct.
Speaker 2: Them maybe in maybe twenty thirty years time when young
Speaker 2: people everyone, everyone's on YouTube.
Speaker 1: So podcasts, podcast well, there's many of them, and we
Speaker 1: make no pretense of trying to listen to them all
Speaker 1: because we're busy doing our own. But just to you know,
Speaker 1: shamelessly plug people. We know Emily Webb. I think she
Speaker 1: caught your eye. She's a good friend of the Broke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so friend of the show. Emily web has a
Speaker 2: new show called Unthinkable, good title, very good title. Other
Speaker 2: ones Bronwin from our stable mates at the Australian.
Speaker 1: Yes, excellent, that's Headley Thomas.
Speaker 2: So that's Headley Thomas and I think they're up to
Speaker 2: season two of that. And of course there's Eyecatch Killers
Speaker 2: from Gary Jubilan of course up North. But one that
Speaker 2: is relatively new, it's just come out, in fact there
Speaker 2: are still episodes to come is called Witness William Tyrell
Speaker 2: and that has been produced by Dan Box, who's a
Speaker 2: form of colleague of ours. Also by Nini Young who
Speaker 2: is a former colleague. In fact, she did a show
Speaker 2: called The Missing forty nine Million, and we spoke to
Speaker 2: Alex Turner Cohen who is the presenter on that. But
Speaker 2: witness William Tyrell is really interesting. Obviously, the William Tyrell
Speaker 2: case very well known. Dan talks to people that haven't
Speaker 2: really been talked to before is about this case.
Speaker 1: So he's uncovered fresh ground.
Speaker 2: Uncovered fresh ground, and again not unlike the Jinks sort
Speaker 2: of character comes into it. There's a couple of people
Speaker 2: telling their stories and they really sort of you can
Speaker 2: feel the care that they had over this child and
Speaker 2: the deep sorrow and sort of almost palpable pain that
Speaker 2: they feel.
Speaker 4: Of course, it's heart wrenching stuff and no matter which
Speaker 4: way you look at that one many laughs in William Tyrrell, Well,
Speaker 4: I think we've.
Speaker 1: Probably fleshed out a few ideas for people to listen,
Speaker 1: read and watch and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2: A few potential gifts there for potential gifts potentially with
Speaker 2: the author name of Andrew Rawle and a couple of them,
Speaker 2: but potentially.
Speaker 1: Yes, we regard these John Sylvestro and myself regard them
Speaker 1: as the brother in Law book. It's the book that's
Speaker 1: with just a bit more than a pair of socks
Speaker 1: or you boxer shorts.
Speaker 3: But not too much, yeah, just enough.
Speaker 1: It's well under the fifty dollar market because you know, really,
Speaker 1: you don's been more than fifty bucks on your above in.
Speaker 3: Law, do you.
Speaker 2: So we've obviously gone through quite a few recommendations here
Speaker 2: and we'll put some of our top picks in the
Speaker 2: show notes for you gentle listener as a Christmas or
Speaker 2: New Year or holiday present.
Speaker 1: It's been a very good twenty twenty four, John, and
Speaker 1: i'd like to thank you for a heap of hard
Speaker 1: work turning this stuff into something that people want to
Speaker 1: listen to, because I know how much you do to
Speaker 1: make that transformation, and I thank you again.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Andrew, and thank you for telling the
Speaker 2: stories that people want to listen to.
Speaker 1: No problem, we'll do it all again in the new year.
Speaker 3: So that's a threat.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Life in Crimes is a Sunday Herald
Speaker 1: Sun production for true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty.
Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot
Speaker 1: com dot au, forward slash Andrew rule one word. For
Speaker 1: advertising inquiries, go to News Podcasts sold at News dot
Speaker 1: com dot Au. That is all one word news podcasts sold.
Speaker 1: And if you want further information about this episode, links
Speaker 1: are in the description.