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Speaker 1: I can remember being in America what thirty years ago,

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Speaker 1: and being in LA and the only thing on the

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Speaker 1: news every night, on every channel was the Menendez trial.

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Speaker 1: It was riveting them to see it in the fletch.

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Speaker 1: And now, of course we're thinking they might have been

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Speaker 1: sinned against.

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Speaker 2: The central character of the first season, who was also

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Speaker 2: the central character of the second one, surrounded himself with

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Speaker 2: so many odd balls and weirdos and people with stories

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Speaker 2: to tell, and they tell those stories.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes, and we're

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Speaker 1: coming into that season, which in newspapers and the media

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Speaker 1: generally we call it the silly season, and that just

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Speaker 1: means it's summertime and a lot of us will go

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Speaker 1: away from the big bad city to some sleepy beach

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and there we will waste time, get sunburnt,

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Speaker 1: drink beer and other fluids, and read books and watch

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Speaker 1: screens because that's how we pass time. And for that reason,

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Speaker 1: we're going to mention some of our favorite things. It's

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Speaker 1: not a comprehensive list, but producer John Burton and myself

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Speaker 1: have picked up a few clues this year about what

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Speaker 1: we like to read and to watch, and we thought

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Speaker 1: we would pass on our tips for what they're worth.

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Speaker 1: First of all, of course, John, we will do some

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Speaker 1: naked self interest. I should actually call a book naked

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Speaker 1: self interest. That would be very good.

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Speaker 3: It's a good title. It's a good title.

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Speaker 1: But as I should not have mentioned that, someone else

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Speaker 1: will now pinch it. Naked self interest dictates that I

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Speaker 1: plug two books published this year under my byline, and

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Speaker 1: the first is most excellent book called Life and Crimes,

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Speaker 1: the same name as the podcast published by McMillan, my

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Speaker 1: very good friends at McMillan, who I'm very fond of.

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Speaker 1: And it's a collection of true crime stories funnily enough

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Speaker 1: and a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of sort of stories without giving too much away

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Speaker 2: could a reader.

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Speaker 1: Many of them have been touched on in the podcasts,

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Speaker 1: but some may not have. Just for those who like

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Speaker 1: to read a well curated, well edited collection of true stories,

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Speaker 1: it hits the mark. However, of course, time passes, and

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Speaker 1: what happened this year was the Easy Street result, where

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Speaker 1: police have brought back from Rome a Greek Australian dual

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Speaker 1: citizen Perry Kurumblus to face charges of murder over the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven Easy Street case and Funnily enough, John,

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Speaker 1: I've been able to get out a book of short

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Speaker 1: true stories, the longest one of which is about Easy Street,

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Speaker 1: and it has now become Chapter one. And that book,

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Speaker 1: which has just hit the shelves in the last fortnight,

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Speaker 1: is called Rule on Crime. On the cover of this

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Speaker 1: new edition of Rule on Crime, it has the subtitle

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Speaker 1: Murder on Easy Stay.

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Speaker 3: So that's just so.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners will know that the one they need is

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Speaker 1: the one that says murder on Easy Street because it

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Speaker 1: has the latest and brightest developments in that story. So

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Speaker 1: two books, two books, which I have to say are

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Speaker 1: very similar, and I would advise people out there that

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Speaker 1: if they buy one, do not buy the.

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Speaker 2: Other, or they could buy the other for a friend

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Speaker 2: or relative.

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Speaker 1: They could buy the other one for a friend or relative,

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Speaker 1: and I wish they would, but please buy two by

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Speaker 1: all means, but don't expect that you'll find vastly different

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Speaker 1: stories between the two.

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Speaker 2: So if you are listening to this before Christmas, and

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Speaker 2: hopefully we will have this episode out before Christmas, great

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Speaker 2: books to give to friends, families, loved ones, acquaintances, work, colleagues.

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Speaker 1: True Now, in the interest of hands across the water,

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Speaker 1: we must also mention my former colleague and great friend

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Speaker 1: John Sylvester, who has a new book out which is

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Speaker 1: called Dark City, which follows up his very successful book

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Speaker 1: Naked City, published by our friends at McMillan. Dark Cities

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Speaker 1: just out and is an excellent collection of stuff, very

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Speaker 1: handsome book. And John will be very happy to hear

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Speaker 1: that we've mentioned his book because he mentions ours on

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Speaker 1: three our w Oh, that's very kind of him, sly

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Speaker 1: of the underworld.

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Speaker 3: He's that sort of blow.

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Speaker 2: So Naked City. You don't know where that name comes from.

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Speaker 2: Certainly get the book, don't look it up for any

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Speaker 2: other purpose.

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Speaker 1: No, that's right, I'm true. Now we're doing around the

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Speaker 1: grounds on books and films. This is not comprehensive. They're

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Speaker 1: just a few things that come to mind. There's one

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Speaker 1: that came out this year. We interviewed the author The

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Speaker 1: Kingpin and the Crooked Cop, and that is by an

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Speaker 1: excellent Sydney journalist called Neil Mercer. We are critics of

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Speaker 1: Sydney things often down here in Melbourne.

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Speaker 3: Quite rightly, we'll work quite rightly.

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Speaker 1: But I've always had a high opinion of Sydney journalists.

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Speaker 1: I think that several of them are very very good

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Speaker 1: and we have respect and Neil Mercer is right up

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Speaker 1: there always has been ranging around the grounds. Again, we

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Speaker 1: have the Definity of Easy Street book by our great

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Speaker 1: friend Helen Thomas. It is called Murder on Easy Street

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Speaker 1: and Helen has done an updated version of that book

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Speaker 1: and she's been in Melbourne this very week that we're

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Speaker 1: recording to see Perry Krumblas the suspect in court. And

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Speaker 1: the time will come next year when she will do

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Speaker 1: a third edition of that book with the latest material

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Speaker 1: in it. It's a very good project that she's undertaken.

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Speaker 1: I work with Helen at the age more than forty

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Speaker 1: years ago and for a respectable bishop's daughter. She's done

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Speaker 1: a lot of very tough stories.

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Speaker 2: And she was on the show a couple of times

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Speaker 2: this year, most recently talking about developments, although not the

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Speaker 2: Perry Crumblas development, but other development developments in the Easy

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Speaker 2: Street case. She was also so on a couple of

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Speaker 2: years ago. Will put the names of the shows that

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Speaker 2: she has been on in the description of this episode

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Speaker 2: so you can go back and listen to her talk

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Speaker 2: about the Easy streetcase.

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Speaker 1: That's good and also if you have a little flutter

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Speaker 1: on the horses save you five dollars each way or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Helen bought a horse in New Zealand, a young horse

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, for about two and a

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Speaker 1: half thousand dollars, which is not much, and she and

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Speaker 1: others brought this horse back to Australia and he races

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Speaker 1: under the name of Stylish Secret, and he has turned

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Speaker 1: into quite.

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Speaker 3: A successful little race horse.

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Speaker 1: He's only a little feller, but he's out in the

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Speaker 1: paddic at the minute. He's one more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars in steake. He's going to come back in

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Speaker 1: and we are barracking for Stylish Secret to win races

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Speaker 1: in the autumn, and our listeners should keep an eye

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Speaker 1: open for him because he's a very heartwarming story.

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Speaker 3: An early tip, early tip.

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Speaker 2: Also, Neil has also been on the show talking the

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Speaker 2: Kingpin and the Crooked Cop. Will put a link in

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Speaker 2: the description to that show as well, because he was

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Speaker 2: very good on the show.

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Speaker 3: Terrific bog. Now.

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Speaker 1: One of the others up there, of course, is Kate mcclemont.

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Speaker 1: She's going very well at the minute. She's really sticking

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Speaker 1: the boots into a low called Alan Jones.

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Speaker 3: Oh so there you go.

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Speaker 2: I've been in the news as well.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Kate is a.

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Speaker 1: Very tough unit. I wouldn't want to cross Kate. She'd

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Speaker 1: fix you right up.

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Speaker 3: She's good.

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Speaker 1: Now, some people we can't get on.

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Speaker 3: The show, although we can try.

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Speaker 1: We have had Don Winslow, the great American true crime

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Speaker 1: and also fiction author. Wonderful author. If you're wondering what

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Speaker 1: to read over summer, I suspected almost anything by Don Winslow.

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Speaker 3: It fits the bill.

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Speaker 1: Another great American author ex journo. I tend to like

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Speaker 1: them true crime writers who go from newspapers into writing fiction.

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Speaker 1: One of the best of the is a guy called

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Speaker 1: Carl Hyason who comes out of Florida, Miami, and he

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Speaker 1: writes a particularly funny brand of fictional crime. And he's

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Speaker 1: good news. Carl Hyason.

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Speaker 2: Now, yeah, he's always talking about Tallahassee and the goings

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Speaker 2: on in Tallahassee. Did he not do the book that

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Speaker 2: was then turned into a film starring strip Teas starring

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Speaker 2: Demi Moore.

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Speaker 1: I think that is precisely the sort of title he uses.

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Speaker 1: He has excellent titles and strip teas. I think he's

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Speaker 1: one of them. He's a very funny guy. And his books,

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Speaker 1: although they're sort of comic and comedic and tongue in cheek,

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Speaker 1: are good in it. As a really top end crime

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Speaker 1: reporter in his day on the big paper down in Miami,

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Speaker 1: Miami Herald, I think he knows what he's talking about.

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Speaker 3: So his characters are very well.

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Speaker 1: Grounded in real people in some ways, and he understands

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Speaker 1: the process of storytelling and how to make it sort

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Speaker 1: of sound realistic, although clearly then true stories. Another one

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Speaker 1: like that in America is from Boston. Different kettle of

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Speaker 1: fish altogether, not the same Boston as Forloridda very different.

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Speaker 1: Mone's sort of like far North Queensland and Mon's Melbourne.

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Speaker 3: That's different.

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Speaker 1: But the man in Boston has been dead for a

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Speaker 1: long time. But he was a great, great crime writer,

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Speaker 1: a guy called George V. For Victor V. Higgins, and

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Speaker 1: George V. Higgins was a crime lawyer, I think a prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: He was a lecturer in I think literature, and he

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Speaker 1: was also a very successful crime author. And he died

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Speaker 1: in his fifties. So this guy jammed a lot of

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Speaker 1: achievements into a fairly short working life. His greatest work

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Speaker 1: and one that has been a big influence on a

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Speaker 1: lot of writers and also led to films and things

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Speaker 1: like that. Is a book called The Friends of Eddie Coyle.

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Speaker 1: The Friends of Eddie Coyle is a wonderful book for

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Speaker 1: some people. It's just straight dialogue almost it's almost like

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Speaker 1: watching real life. He doesn't paint pictures. He just lets

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Speaker 1: these guys tell their stories in their dialogue with each other,

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Speaker 1: and after a while you realize where the story is heading.

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Speaker 1: And it's extremely chilling. And if you like it, you

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Speaker 1: can then find some of his other books which are

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Speaker 1: pretty good.

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Speaker 2: So I'm listening to Friends of Eddie Coyle at your

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Speaker 2: recommendation right now.

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Speaker 3: How are you and how's it going?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's very interesting, because I should say listeners. If

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Speaker 2: you are on Spotify, it is available through that as

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Speaker 2: an audiobook, and so that's the version that I've been

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Speaker 2: listening to. Is I go about my day and it's

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Speaker 2: quite like another book, Trainspotting. It is you learn the

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Speaker 2: cadence and the speech patterns of some of the characters

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Speaker 2: in the book, and from that you can produce what's

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Speaker 2: going on. What's going on?

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Speaker 3: It is very it's as tough.

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Speaker 1: As Irving walshap something completely different. Now, not everyone's going

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Speaker 1: to love George V. Higgins. That's sort of dense and

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Speaker 1: it's tough, and that's very much of its time.

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Speaker 3: True, But it also.

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Speaker 1: Established a new type of literature in a way, anyway,

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Speaker 1: something different, completely very English, very sort of Midsummer Murders

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Speaker 1: in its way, but clever, smart, great publishing. All the

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Speaker 1: books by Richard Osmond. You know, there's Thursday Murder Club.

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Speaker 1: We chase killers or something and we investigate murders whatever.

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Speaker 1: But he's got a whole series of these and they're

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Speaker 1: a little bit sort of cute, kitchen table type stuff,

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Speaker 1: very tongue in cheek, very clever, very English, and they

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Speaker 1: are enormously popular. These are one of the biggest wishing

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Speaker 1: phenomenons since Harry Potter. That's how big they are, and

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Speaker 1: that can't all be wrong. And I noticed that I

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Speaker 1: read one last week that my wife said I should read,

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Speaker 1: and I think she was right. It's very easy reading

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Speaker 1: and great summer reading.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: He's also on a podcast called The Rest Is Entertainment

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Speaker 2: with a woman named Marina Hine, and she is a

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Speaker 2: columnist talking about media matters over in the UK. I

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Speaker 2: think Richmond Osmond is also sort of part of the

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Speaker 2: quiz Juicy does things like.

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Speaker 1: Pointless, very clever guy, very clever sort of in that

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Speaker 1: that Stephen Frye. You know these guys with brains about

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Speaker 1: as big as Tasmania, who can actually turn their hand

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Speaker 1: to almost anything. The TV producers, but they're also quiz masters.

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Speaker 1: They're also often they're poets and novelists and everything else.

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Speaker 1: It's quite astonishing how good they are. And he's one

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Speaker 1: of them.

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Speaker 2: And for our first podcast recommendation, if you are interested

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Speaker 2: in entertainment and also probably entertainment with an English or

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Speaker 2: a UK sort of bias, Rest Is Entertainment is a

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Speaker 2: very good show, as is the rest of their stable.

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Speaker 2: There's a podcast company called Goalhanger and they put out

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Speaker 2: The Rest Is Entertainment, The Rest is History, which is

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Speaker 2: two historians talking about historical matters, as you would expect

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Speaker 2: from that title. They also do a World War two

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Speaker 2: podcast called We Have Ways of Making You Talk. Oh

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Speaker 2: that's Gal, which is brilliant, and they also have one

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Speaker 2: called The Rest Is Classified, which they've just started up.

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Speaker 3: Oh Lovely, which is espionage.

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Speaker 2: Yespiona, So it's a former I think CIA analyst talking

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Speaker 2: with a former reporter. I think still a reporter on

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Speaker 2: matters of clandestine goings on, and their first couple of

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Speaker 2: episodes have been pretty good. They've talked about one of

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Speaker 2: the Iran KuPS and the CIA and MI six parts

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Speaker 2: to play in at an all involved sort of half

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Speaker 2: drunk operatives from various parts of Lord going in and

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Speaker 2: doing things, and.

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Speaker 1: It's frightening the world. Peace relies on who drank vodka?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's not that's it and it's a roaring talk.

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Speaker 1: Well, while on the English oldie and goldie just a

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Speaker 1: very fine writer. Who is Kate Atkinson. I won't bother

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Speaker 1: going through all the titles she's written, but everything she

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Speaker 1: writes is very readable. There is one collection of short

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Speaker 1: stories of hers which are beautifully written. They're a little

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Speaker 1: bit odd, bit strange, they're not sort of factual, they're

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Speaker 1: not like real life. They're a bit magical. But her

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Speaker 1: novels great Who Done It? They're really classy, stylish. She's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful writer. Another one who also qualifies as a

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Speaker 1: crackerjack sort of who Done It? Thriller writer, but also

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Speaker 1: quite a high level literary writer in his way is

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Speaker 1: Mick Heron. Now we've probably mentioned him in other years

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Speaker 1: but Mick Heron spelt with hg N is the guy

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Speaker 1: who created Slow Horses, which was a book that he wrote,

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Speaker 1: along with several other books featuring a broken down British

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Speaker 1: spy called Jackson Lamb, who is a shambolic, smelly, grubby, grubby, greasy,

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Speaker 1: broken down left over from the Cold War. And this

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Speaker 1: guy runs all these broken down spies in London in

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Speaker 1: a broken down building in London, and it's very funny.

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Speaker 3: But also very tough and out of it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, out of these excellent books which I've been

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Speaker 1: reading over the years has come an excellent series streamer

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Speaker 1: series called Slow Horses, And as an indicator of the

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Speaker 1: quality of it, the lead part of the said Jackson

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Speaker 1: Lamb is played by the most excellent actor, Gary Oldman,

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Speaker 1: and the theme song is written and performed by a

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Speaker 1: blow called Mick Jagger. Have you ever heard of him?

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Speaker 1: It is so good, so good, you'll never regret watching it.

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Speaker 2: He abused that sense of sort of broken down.

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Speaker 1: Perfect but he thinks about boozers and losers in an

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Speaker 1: accent like that.

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Speaker 2: And Gary Oldman in some of those scenes really looks

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Speaker 2: like he's sort of just gotten himself out of a

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Speaker 2: relationship Shop, And.

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Speaker 1: Now we've sort of moving into the TV series, aren't we.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen anything this year that you'd recommend John.

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Speaker 2: So there's a couple of documentaries on streaming services that

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Speaker 2: I absolutely can A couple of them, I suppose would

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Speaker 2: be good for people who, as I did, didn't really

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Speaker 2: get into the story when it happened, and they are

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Speaker 2: who killed John Beney Ramsey? What is a great story,

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Speaker 2: a very sort of chilling story but had a lot

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Speaker 2: of twist and turns. And they mentioned this in the documentary,

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Speaker 2: but because there was so much footage of young John Benet,

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Speaker 2: because for those of you who don't know the story

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Speaker 2: was a young girl that went missing in Boulder, Colorado

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Speaker 2: in I think the late nineties, and she was a contestant,

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Speaker 2: a frequent contestant on junior beauty pageant competitions. And this

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Speaker 2: documentary series, and it's only a few episodes, goes through

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Speaker 2: the disappearance and the finding of the body and all

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Speaker 2: goes into spoilers, but there's sort of many twists and

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Speaker 2: turns in that case, and it doesn't stand out as

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Speaker 2: a piece of sort of art, but as a good

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Speaker 2: primer as to what Happened. It's a quite good piece

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Speaker 2: of who did what happened?

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Speaker 1: One of the great great stories, no doubt. I've seen

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Speaker 1: quite a few good series this year and would recommend

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Speaker 1: them a couple of Irish. One of those is kin

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Speaker 1: kin as in Ki N and I would suggest that

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Speaker 1: it's the Irish equivalent of the Sopranos, which goes to

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Speaker 1: its top quality. It's fearsome casting, it's very tough plotting,

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Speaker 1: and really it's very tough ending.

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Speaker 3: It's great stuff.

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Speaker 2: Like I sort of a mafia, Irish mafia.

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Speaker 1: Mafia totally, and it is an indicator of what I

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Speaker 1: believe to be a true story, and that is that

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Speaker 1: there is no Italian mafia in Belfast at least, and

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Speaker 1: this might point out why because the locals are a

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Speaker 1: little bit tasty. There is another Irish series I intend

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Speaker 1: to watch over Christmas and that he's Say Nothing. When

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Speaker 1: I say Irish, it's set largely in Ireland.

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Speaker 3: It's about the troubles.

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Speaker 1: It's based on the most excellent nonfiction book of the

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Speaker 1: same title, Say Nothing, by a wonderful journalist and author

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Speaker 1: called Patrick raden Keif, and Patrick raden Keff's sort of

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Speaker 1: Boston Irish He's an American of Irish descent, but I

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Speaker 1: believe his mother was an Aussie. So he's the internation,

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Speaker 1: truly international act and his books are wonderful. His other

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Speaker 1: big one is Empire of Pain, which is about the

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Speaker 1: opioid crisis and the courses of it, and it also

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Speaker 1: has spawned a big streamer series not under that name.

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Speaker 2: Note speaking of streaming, we've talked about who killed John

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Speaker 2: Bene Ramsey, but there's also one about the Menandez brothers,

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Speaker 2: called the Menandez Brothers very good, and they obviously in

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Speaker 2: the news again. Now.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I can remember being in America what thirty years

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Speaker 1: ago and being in LA and the only thing on

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Speaker 1: the news every night, on every channel was the Menendez trial.

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Speaker 1: It was rivoting to see it in the flesh. And

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Speaker 1: now it's come up again and now of course we're

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Speaker 1: thinking they might have been sinned against, which makes sense

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Speaker 1: to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and this documentary goes into that. But it's

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Speaker 2: interesting because I was post OJ. It was one of

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Speaker 2: the big cases that was all in front of the cameras.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and it's up there with OJA, isn't it. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of the justice system on show with a camera

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Speaker 1: on every angle. It's astonishing.

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Speaker 2: Another one that takes a different tack. This one is

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Speaker 2: very much more of a in some ways a traditional

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Speaker 2: style of documentary, but also I think does things that

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Speaker 2: other documentaries don't do. And that's the second season of

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Speaker 2: the Jinx.

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Speaker 1: I remember the original one, and it's as good as

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Speaker 1: the first one.

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Speaker 2: It's not as groundbreaking as the first one. The first

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Speaker 2: one again had a lot going for it, had a

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Speaker 2: lot going for it. And if you haven't seen it,

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Speaker 2: go see it because the ending of that is one

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Speaker 2: of the more chilling endings of a documentary that you'll see.

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Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, wonderful, wonderful place of work.

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Speaker 2: This one has, I think something that a lot of

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Speaker 2: documentaries shy away from or just don't capture, and that

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Speaker 2: is character. Robert Durst, the central character of the first season,

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Speaker 2: who was also the central character of the second one,

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Speaker 2: surrounded himself with so many odd balls and weird and

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Speaker 2: people with stories to tell them. They tell those stories.

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Speaker 2: And the director, a guy called Andrew Jireki, has plied

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Speaker 2: his trades through his entire career, really bringing character as

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Speaker 2: a major part of his documentaries. He did one a

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Speaker 2: few years ago called capturing the Freedman's Yes, I remember that,

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Speaker 2: so about a spooky, very spooky about a father and

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Speaker 2: a son who were both sent down for fairly awful

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Speaker 2: crimes against children. But throughout the documentary this Andrew Jureki,

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Speaker 2: he just asks questions. He asks questions of people who

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Speaker 2: were the witnesses and the trials, people who were involved

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Speaker 2: in the trials, and again the characters came out, and

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Speaker 2: he had access, not unlike the Menendez or John Bna case,

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Speaker 2: to a whole bunch of videos so he could make

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Speaker 2: it incredibly rich. A lot of home video from the

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Speaker 2: capturing from the Freedman's.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful when they've got an opportunity to mine that material,

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Speaker 1: just thinking it's not crime but fascinating. The It and

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Speaker 1: Senner documentary about the racing Drover and Amy Weinehouse, Yes,

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Speaker 1: one called one's called Senna and one's called Amy, I think.

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Speaker 1: But wonderful life stories but broad to life because each

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Speaker 1: of them grew up at a time and were a

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Speaker 1: sufficient interest that people filmed them a lot, so that

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Speaker 1: every part of their life has been filmed.

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Speaker 3: YEP.

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Speaker 1: It's an incredible thing to have if you're a documentary maker,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Apply to you know a lot of us.

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Speaker 1: Our lives aren't recorded on video, and therefore it's very

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Speaker 1: hard to reconstruct.

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00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: Them maybe in maybe twenty thirty years time when young

405
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Speaker 2: people everyone, everyone's on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: So podcasts, podcast well, there's many of them, and we

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Speaker 1: make no pretense of trying to listen to them all

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Speaker 1: because we're busy doing our own. But just to you know,

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Speaker 1: shamelessly plug people. We know Emily Webb. I think she

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00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: caught your eye. She's a good friend of the Broke.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so friend of the show. Emily web has a

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Speaker 2: new show called Unthinkable, good title, very good title. Other

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Speaker 2: ones Bronwin from our stable mates at the Australian.

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Speaker 1: Yes, excellent, that's Headley Thomas.

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Speaker 2: So that's Headley Thomas and I think they're up to

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Speaker 2: season two of that. And of course there's Eyecatch Killers

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Speaker 2: from Gary Jubilan of course up North. But one that

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Speaker 2: is relatively new, it's just come out, in fact there

419
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 2: are still episodes to come is called Witness William Tyrell

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Speaker 2: and that has been produced by Dan Box, who's a

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Speaker 2: form of colleague of ours. Also by Nini Young who

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Speaker 2: is a former colleague. In fact, she did a show

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Speaker 2: called The Missing forty nine Million, and we spoke to

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Speaker 2: Alex Turner Cohen who is the presenter on that. But

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Speaker 2: witness William Tyrell is really interesting. Obviously, the William Tyrell

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Speaker 2: case very well known. Dan talks to people that haven't

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Speaker 2: really been talked to before is about this case.

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Speaker 1: So he's uncovered fresh ground.

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Speaker 2: Uncovered fresh ground, and again not unlike the Jinks sort

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Speaker 2: of character comes into it. There's a couple of people

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00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: telling their stories and they really sort of you can

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Speaker 2: feel the care that they had over this child and

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Speaker 2: the deep sorrow and sort of almost palpable pain that

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Speaker 2: they feel.

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Speaker 4: Of course, it's heart wrenching stuff and no matter which

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Speaker 4: way you look at that one many laughs in William Tyrrell, Well,

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Speaker 4: I think we've.

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Speaker 1: Probably fleshed out a few ideas for people to listen,

439
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: read and watch and all the rest of it.

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00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: A few potential gifts there for potential gifts potentially with

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00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 2: the author name of Andrew Rawle and a couple of them,

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00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: but potentially.

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00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: Yes, we regard these John Sylvestro and myself regard them

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00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: as the brother in Law book. It's the book that's

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00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: with just a bit more than a pair of socks

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00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: or you boxer shorts.

447
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: But not too much, yeah, just enough.

448
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: It's well under the fifty dollar market because you know, really,

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00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: you don's been more than fifty bucks on your above in.

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00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 3: Law, do you.

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00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: So we've obviously gone through quite a few recommendations here

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00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: and we'll put some of our top picks in the

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00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: show notes for you gentle listener as a Christmas or

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00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 2: New Year or holiday present.

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00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: It's been a very good twenty twenty four, John, and

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00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: i'd like to thank you for a heap of hard

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00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: work turning this stuff into something that people want to

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00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: listen to, because I know how much you do to

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00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: make that transformation, and I thank you again.

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00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Andrew, and thank you for telling the

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00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: stories that people want to listen to.

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00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: No problem, we'll do it all again in the new year.

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Speaker 3: So that's a threat.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Life in Crimes is a Sunday Herald

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00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: Sun production for true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty.

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Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot

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00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: com dot au, forward slash Andrew rule one word. For

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00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: advertising inquiries, go to News Podcasts sold at News dot

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00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: com dot Au. That is all one word news podcasts sold.

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00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: And if you want further information about this episode, links

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00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: are in the description.