Speaker 1: Why do you believe that Kevan's responsible for Rochelle's murder.
Speaker 2: My Dad's never raised his voice, raised a hand to me.
Speaker 2: I was never smacked. As a child, I experienced nothing but.
Speaker 3: Displays of love.
Speaker 2: But I know when I disappointed my dad and I
Speaker 2: saw evil sides of him. I saw how calculated and
Speaker 2: sinister he could be. I see the way he treated women.
Speaker 2: I knew he was capable of horrible things.
Speaker 3: I knew that.
Speaker 2: Crossing him could be dangerous for people. But I know
Speaker 2: how quickly he can turn on his most significant relationships,
Speaker 2: how you can go from being the center of his
Speaker 2: universe to nothing and no one easily. But I think
Speaker 2: my initial instinct when hearing that Rochelle had been murdered
Speaker 2: was that it was my father.
Speaker 1: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode fourteen of
Speaker 1: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is
Speaker 1: the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year
Speaker 1: old who was brutally murdered. Her killer has never been caught.
Speaker 1: This is the second of a two part interview with
Speaker 1: Kevin Stephen Corell's daughter Jazz. As you heard last episode,
Speaker 1: Jazz has some pretty strong beliefs about her father, particularly
Speaker 1: in relation to historic allegations for which she was found
Speaker 1: not guilty. Jazz also believes her dad murdered Rochelle. These
Speaker 1: are only Jazz's opinions about her dad. She's come to
Speaker 1: these views for a combination of her own interactions with
Speaker 1: her father and witnessing his relationships with other people, including
Speaker 1: both of his ex wives, the first being her mother. This,
Speaker 1: of course, doesn't make it proof of Kevin's guilt of
Speaker 1: any offenses. These are only Jazz's opinions, and in fact,
Speaker 1: you will hear Jazz say she doesn't have any evidence
Speaker 1: that her dad committed these crimes, but we think it's
Speaker 1: important for you to hear her voice. Kevin Carrell strenuously
Speaker 1: denies any involvement in Rochelle's murder and has never been charged.
Speaker 1: He has willingly participated in three records of interview with
Speaker 1: police and provided his DNA to investigators. A coroner presiding
Speaker 1: over Rochelle's inquest made an open finding, did you ever
Speaker 1: meet Rochelle?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: So did at Campton Holden, being that I think I
Speaker 2: met her when I was about sixteen. I was seventeen
Speaker 2: when she passed, so my brother had not long had
Speaker 2: his license and he often borrowed cars from Campton Holden
Speaker 2: and so you know, if he was heading out there
Speaker 2: to visit out dad, I'd often go.
Speaker 3: And I met Rochelle a few times.
Speaker 2: And at that age, you know, a young woman that age,
Speaker 2: it's automatically someone you look up to, and you know
Speaker 2: she's very bubbly and friendly and yeah, just lovely, very
Speaker 2: very sweet.
Speaker 4: Do you remember being told that she died.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the specifics on how I found that out.
Speaker 2: I don't remember a conversation with my dad about it.
Speaker 2: My feeling is possibly that my brother told me, but
Speaker 2: I can't confirm that my brother at that time had
Speaker 2: a closer relationship with my dad. At sixteen seventeen, I
Speaker 2: you know, didn't really have a lot to do with him.
Speaker 2: The time she passed away and the time I fell
Speaker 2: pregnant with my eldest son, I had cut my dud
Speaker 2: from my life and told him I believed he did it.
Speaker 2: So this was before the inquest, but I had stated
Speaker 2: that I believed he was responsible, and it wasn't until
Speaker 2: later in my pregnancy that I reconnected with him, and
Speaker 2: I think I apologize for saying that. I put it
Speaker 2: down to being angry at him, as.
Speaker 3: I said, you know, being seventeen.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the order in which I found things out,
Speaker 2: but I think there was possibly a conversation about, you know,
Speaker 2: the defrauding of Campton Holden. And I was well aware
Speaker 2: that if Rochelle had become aware that he was doing that,
Speaker 2: and you know, if someone told me my dad stole something,
Speaker 2: I would immediately believe that my dad is a thief.
Speaker 2: You know, most of time he passes it off as
Speaker 2: a joke. We couldn't go anywhere without him pocketing something
Speaker 2: or you know, and it was always a joke to him.
Speaker 2: I think he really got off on I'm doing things
Speaker 2: like that, insignificant things. I remember one time from a
Speaker 2: shopping center, he's stall bins so he could have them
Speaker 2: at the back. They were nice, decretive bins. He'd brag
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: When did you start to think that the fraud allegations
Speaker 1: against your father could have been his motive?
Speaker 2: I think it was. He did definitely didn't tell me,
Speaker 2: because I remember I remember bringing it up to him
Speaker 2: about Camden Holden. I think I'd read it in a
Speaker 2: paper and.
Speaker 3: I asked him.
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, let's this about you defrodi
Speaker 2: and he said, oh, they I remember something about seven
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and he said, like, I'm going to kill
Speaker 2: a young girl over seven thousand dollars, and he denied
Speaker 2: that he had defrauded.
Speaker 5: Hold it.
Speaker 2: It's possibly that my brain's been attached to that for
Speaker 2: twenty four years, that the sexual element of it was
Speaker 2: something I had not considered, which is probably ridiculous to
Speaker 2: most considering his history. I didn't view it that way though,
Speaker 2: So Yeah, to me, it was about her exposing who
Speaker 2: he was. I think she possibly started questioning things because
Speaker 2: of her commissions. She made him paranoid. Probably didn't know
Speaker 2: how to get out of it. He felt like he
Speaker 2: was being exposed. Exposing my dad in any way, exposing
Speaker 2: or shining a light on him not being wonderful is
Speaker 2: what will set him off. I don't think he can
Speaker 2: bring anybody in. I don't think it would have occurred
Speaker 2: to him to say that to Rachelle, I'll give you
Speaker 2: some extra money if she found out about the fraud.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time when my dad's
Speaker 2: been in a situation where he's being exposed he just
Speaker 2: moves on to the next part of his life. I
Speaker 2: don't know what it was about Rochelle. I think maybe
Speaker 2: being in a car yard too, like that. My dad
Speaker 2: worked in car yards my whole life.
Speaker 3: That being.
Speaker 2: Becoming well known it would have angered him. I remember
Speaker 2: there was one podcast where one of my dad's former
Speaker 2: partners said that my dad spoke about Rochelle's performance dropping
Speaker 2: in the months before she died.
Speaker 3: For him to speak.
Speaker 2: About someone like that, my dad wouldn't care if someone
Speaker 2: wasn't working hard.
Speaker 3: It's not something that would affect him. He wasn't a
Speaker 3: hard worker, you know, he never has been.
Speaker 2: He's use of her had shifted, and he was probably
Speaker 2: trying to make Rachelle look a certain way so that
Speaker 2: if she did expose him, or it could be that
Speaker 2: she had laughed at him, changed his view entirely. But
Speaker 2: also he would have been trying to change people's perceptions
Speaker 2: of Rochelle to make her look like a liar if
Speaker 2: she came out and exposed him.
Speaker 4: What about if she rejected him.
Speaker 2: Probably the most dangerous thing that she could have done.
Speaker 2: I don't think my dad gets rejected very often. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, in most social settings where you know, maybe
Speaker 2: he'd make an advance. You know, he'd probably never see
Speaker 2: that woman again if she, you know, was that mingles
Speaker 2: or and that's fine, and he'd probably accept that and
Speaker 2: minimize how much he wanted her. But Rochelle being in
Speaker 2: his life every day, and how much he would have
Speaker 2: been infatuated with her, her rejecting him would have been
Speaker 2: a massive hit to his ego. But if Rochelle had
Speaker 2: rejected him or mocked him, or if it was known
Speaker 2: that she had rejected him, that would have infuriated him.
Speaker 2: Because the biggest thing for my daddy is the show,
Speaker 2: the ego, the being revered by people. He needs to
Speaker 2: be sent a stage. He needs to be the most
Speaker 2: important person. It would have embarrassed him, and that's probably
Speaker 2: the most dangerous thing you can do to my daddy
Speaker 2: is embarrass him.
Speaker 4: You've had a lot of years to consider your father's behavior,
Speaker 4: what you know of him, and also now insights into
Speaker 4: Rochelle's case. What do you you believe happened to Rochelle
Speaker 4: that night?
Speaker 2: I believe that he lured her with the Walker shore.
Speaker 2: He convinced her they were going to pick it up.
Speaker 2: I don't know how he convinced her to drive her car.
Speaker 2: I think he met her at Bargo. That's the only
Speaker 2: part that's missing for me. Why they went in her car.
Speaker 2: My dad's known to always be the driver. I've never
Speaker 2: driven with my dad in the car. Don't know how
Speaker 2: that happened. I think he then they went to Giroua.
Speaker 2: I think he wanted to kill her, possibly as punishment
Speaker 2: for rejecting him, but I think it was about the
Speaker 2: exposure of him defrauding Camden Holden. I think he pulled
Speaker 2: up at that exact spot for the cement kid and
Speaker 2: when couldn't get that open. You know, he's left her
Speaker 2: where he has, but I think maybe there was a
Speaker 2: car near Bargo Poppy he's driven back there. I believe
Speaker 2: the reason her radio was stolen is my dad's terrified
Speaker 2: of technology. He doesn't understand it. When my dad doesn't
Speaker 2: understand things, he's angry about them, and it's something we've
Speaker 2: sort of been able to mock him about technology, which
Speaker 2: insults him. It affects his ego. I think around that
Speaker 2: time would have been when you'd first sort of see
Speaker 2: on crime shows that radios had GPS features, and because
Speaker 2: my dad didn't understand I think it was important to
Speaker 2: him that he take that out.
Speaker 3: First thing.
Speaker 2: When I heard about the radio, which was only in
Speaker 2: the last few weeks, my first thought was he took
Speaker 2: it out because technology. There was also comments about, you know,
Speaker 2: the three different places he had to shoe, handbags, and
Speaker 2: the sheet. I think he would have been insulted with
Speaker 2: the way that was presented as him being fearful and
Speaker 2: anxious and disorganized. I think he did that intentionally and
Speaker 2: he thought it was forensically intelligent. He wouldn't like how
Speaker 2: it was interpreted as he didn't do a good job,
Speaker 2: and he'd probably be smugging the fact that, well, if
Speaker 2: it was so bad, well I got away with that.
Speaker 2: I dud thinks he knows the legal system, and he doesn't.
Speaker 2: A few times I've had to explain things, and you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't like that at all. He's never had any
Speaker 2: regard whatsoever for my intelligence, and despite my degree, I
Speaker 2: could fill him in and he'd just get frustrated. He
Speaker 2: thinks he knows everything about it because of watching I
Speaker 2: See You It's those shows. But I think he thinks
Speaker 2: of himself as someone who, rather than luck, it's because
Speaker 2: of his skill.
Speaker 3: He's got away with things. I think that's how he
Speaker 3: views it.
Speaker 1: Your father must be afforded the presumption of innocence. But
Speaker 1: why do you believe he's gotten away with Rochelle's murder.
Speaker 3: I honestly couldn't tell you.
Speaker 2: I think my dad's probably the luckiest man I've ever known,
Speaker 2: and I've always seen luck on his side.
Speaker 3: I remember my mom.
Speaker 2: My mom was definitely never someone who, you know, even
Speaker 2: though she had valid reason to say a lot of
Speaker 2: things about my father, she wasn't one of those mothers
Speaker 2: whoever bad mouthed us. She'd stopped my grandparents from ever
Speaker 2: saying anything bad as well. But she used to always say,
Speaker 2: your father will always lean on his feet. I heard
Speaker 2: that a billion times through my life, and he does.
Speaker 2: If we did a ruffle somewhere, my dad would win.
Speaker 2: My dad always got the best parking spot. I've seen
Speaker 2: him just have this extraordinary luck, didn't have a once
Speaker 2: or twice repeatedly all the time. I've never known anyone
Speaker 2: with his luck, and I'm sort of the opposite. I
Speaker 2: have the opposite luck. I get every light. My dad
Speaker 2: never gets them. I think his luck is just it's
Speaker 2: something else, and I don't know where it comes from
Speaker 2: I think. You know, when you look at his cases
Speaker 2: from the eighties, you can point to the times you
Speaker 2: know victims weren't believed. My dad is very charismatic, very charming,
Speaker 2: and he can convince people of many different things. He
Speaker 2: just packs up and then he lands on his feet
Speaker 2: again every time. And I think because he's got away
Speaker 2: with so many things, he does feel untouchable and invincible.
Speaker 2: I've never seen my dad anxious or scared of anything.
Speaker 3: He has a very very low.
Speaker 2: Range of emotions. There's anger, which he suppresses, but I
Speaker 2: can see it in his eyes. I know when my
Speaker 2: dad's angry, but he doesn't show it. And there's happy
Speaker 2: fun that version of my dad, and that's most of
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, but there's not a wide range, and
Speaker 2: he just he's used that to win people over and
Speaker 2: have people defend him. There were quite a few years
Speaker 2: that I know I protected him where people would have
Speaker 2: their doubts and I would convince them that, you know,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have someone like that in my life. I
Speaker 2: always feel guilt and shame about that, because deep down
Speaker 2: I knew, but I needed other people to not believe that.
Speaker 2: My dad was a big support of mine. That sounds disgraceful.
Speaker 3: I know that.
Speaker 2: You know I was willing to let something like murder
Speaker 2: slide for the support he offered, But there was a
Speaker 2: lot of trauma in my life. I was not well,
Speaker 2: and I didn't know how to deal with all of this.
Speaker 4: Do you remember realizing he was being investigated over Rochelle's matter.
Speaker 2: I remember my mum's parents had told me they rang
Speaker 2: the police to tell them about my dad's real name,
Speaker 2: with his former history, and I remember the police coming
Speaker 2: out to interview me. I don't remember a lot of questions.
Speaker 2: I just remember them asking about a sheet more than anything.
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly what I said to them at
Speaker 2: the time, but they were asking me if I had
Speaker 2: been to his place at Lake Laura, and yeah, I'd
Speaker 2: bet there maybe once or twice. So I couldn't give
Speaker 2: them a lot of information, but.
Speaker 3: I just knew.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I always had that feeling, but I
Speaker 2: think the minute I knew was when the inquest was
Speaker 2: happening and it was printed about Rochelle's fingers, and my
Speaker 2: dad was coming over daily at that time, and he
Speaker 2: was falling apart about what they were printing about him,
Speaker 2: and at that time. It was horrible. You know, I
Speaker 2: lost a lot of friends through that time with no
Speaker 2: notice or anything. But I remember him coming over and
Speaker 2: I had read about Rochelle being a and Dad walked
Speaker 2: into my house and he said, they're saying I've made
Speaker 2: up this comment about the fingers. I've never said that,
Speaker 2: But I knew at that moment that he'd done it
Speaker 2: because he told me the story multiple times. He had
Speaker 2: said that Rachelle's fingers were cut off because she was
Speaker 2: dealing drugs for bikers, and that's a biker punishment. He
Speaker 2: had a fascination with bikers.
Speaker 3: But the second he.
Speaker 2: Told me that that was a lie and he never
Speaker 2: said those things, that's when I realized he's done this.
Speaker 2: That was the moment. And I remember.
Speaker 3: Talking to my oldest son when there was a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff in.
Speaker 2: The media, and I mean, my baby boy was maybe twelve,
Speaker 2: and he wanted to know about the case. He knew
Speaker 2: that his grandfather had been in the media and stuff.
Speaker 2: It was way too young to have those conversations, but
Speaker 2: I was worried about what would be said in the
Speaker 2: school yard, and you know, his friend's parents having conversations
Speaker 2: with friends and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I had to tell me about the case, and.
Speaker 2: I still urged it to my lips the minute I
Speaker 2: told him about the fingers and the pain in my
Speaker 2: son's face realizing who his grandfather was. I've never ever
Speaker 2: forgotten that conversation. I don't remember how we sat down
Speaker 2: and talked. I know I would have been gentle, and
Speaker 2: but the second I said about the fingers his face.
Speaker 3: Never forget it.
Speaker 1: And for you, it was this conversation sitting on the
Speaker 1: couch when he said I never said that.
Speaker 4: I never said that. What was that like for you?
Speaker 4: In that moment? Take me into that room.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to pass out. I just I still
Speaker 2: remember just feeling electrified.
Speaker 4: Were you fearful?
Speaker 3: At that time?
Speaker 2: I didn't think my dad would hurt me. There have
Speaker 2: been many periods through my life there I did believe
Speaker 2: my dad would hurt me if he could get away
Speaker 2: with it. But at that time, I think he was
Speaker 2: very dependent on people thinking he's innocent, and he viewed
Speaker 2: me as someone who believed he was innocent. But I
Speaker 2: was scared of what he was capable of. I was
Speaker 2: definitely scared to say you're lying. I would never have
Speaker 2: said that because that would have put me in danger.
Speaker 4: It must have taken a lot of guts for you
Speaker 4: to accuse your father of Rochelle's murder.
Speaker 2: Through I mean, there's probably been four or five big
Speaker 2: blow ups between me and my dad where we get
Speaker 2: to that level of cruelty. First time was when I
Speaker 2: was twelve, and then that second time after Rochelle died,
Speaker 2: and it's yeah, built up. It's all the times where
Speaker 2: I played along and got resentful of let it go,
Speaker 2: that he was flood out lying, and it builds up
Speaker 2: and builds up to a point where I just snap.
Speaker 2: We never discuss it when we come back together, and
Speaker 2: there's been brief mentions, and my dad would never take
Speaker 2: accountability for any of it. He'd talked about how much
Speaker 2: I hurt him.
Speaker 4: How soon after Rochelle's murder did your father tell you
Speaker 4: that Rochelle's fingers had been cut off?
Speaker 2: I don't remember the specific conversation. I just I remember
Speaker 2: telling people, you know, because that's what my dad had
Speaker 2: told me, the bikers had done it. And I remember
Speaker 2: just feeling like the blood had drained from my face
Speaker 2: the time he sat on my lounge and said, I've
Speaker 2: never said that. He said it to me multiple times.
Speaker 2: I don't remember him talking about Rochelle's death in any
Speaker 2: other sense than him defending himself. There was no conversations
Speaker 2: about missing Rochelle or how wonderful she was, or there
Speaker 2: was never anything other thankers did it. She was dealing
Speaker 2: drugs and it was that he wasn't involved.
Speaker 4: What did he say when you said, I believe you
Speaker 4: did it?
Speaker 3: My dad will.
Speaker 2: Match my cruelty. When I'm a pretty passive person, as
Speaker 2: I said, I'm very compliant with my dad's lies and
Speaker 2: things like that, and then I let it all build
Speaker 2: up until I erupt and I get very cruel and
Speaker 2: I have said some really cruel things to my dad.
Speaker 2: My dad matches that, and he says crueler things back.
Speaker 2: And I mean, there's been times throughout my life that
Speaker 2: I've had doubts and thought, what if he didn't do it?
Speaker 2: And I've said the most horrific thing. It'd be heartbreaking
Speaker 2: to have your child throw that in your face.
Speaker 3: But I do believe he did it. I think he
Speaker 3: knows he did it.
Speaker 4: Did he ever have any compassion or grief about what
Speaker 4: happened to Rochelle?
Speaker 3: Not that I ever saw.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever seen compassion in my father,
Speaker 2: except when my daughter died. I know that broke him.
Speaker 2: I think I was the single most painful thing of
Speaker 2: his life.
Speaker 3: Cruelty was always.
Speaker 2: In a very, very different way than most people experience cruelty.
Speaker 2: He managed to get people in on it with him always,
Speaker 2: and I think that's so unique and it adds an
Speaker 2: extra layer of evilness. I think he fully thought that
Speaker 2: his charm would make people not suspect him, and he
Speaker 2: could point it towards bikers because in his eyes, he
Speaker 2: would have lost any adoration he had for Rochelle because
Speaker 2: she was hanging out with bikers. He has a very
Speaker 2: skewed view on how women are supposed to act. He
Speaker 2: would have minimized Rochelle's worth in hearing that she was
Speaker 2: hanging out with bikers. I know that he would have
Speaker 2: had an infatuation with her, and it would have seriously
Speaker 2: angered him that she was involved with people like that,
Speaker 2: because he expects to be revered. He expects to be
Speaker 2: the center of everyone's attention.
Speaker 4: Do you believe that your father cut off Rochelle's fingers.
Speaker 3: Yes, I do.
Speaker 2: I think that was his attempt for getting away with it.
Speaker 2: As I've said, he's very calculated. He thinks he's forensically
Speaker 2: super intelligent. And I think he intentionally cut off her
Speaker 2: fingers and make up the rumor that Rochelle was stealing
Speaker 2: drugs for bikers, because that's something he could completely dismiss
Speaker 2: her character. He would you minimize her character, whether Rochelle
Speaker 2: was doing that or not. And I don't believe for
Speaker 2: a second she was. That's not something I would say, well,
Speaker 2: you deserve to be killed for. In my dad's head,
Speaker 2: she would become nothing and no one if she's really
Speaker 2: if she's dealing with bikers, if she's dealing drugs, he
Speaker 2: would be able to minimize in his head who she
Speaker 2: was as a human being. And although I can't visualize
Speaker 2: in my head that my dad would be able to
Speaker 2: burn a body, cut fingers off, who is the most
Speaker 2: horrific thing thinking about him visually doing those things, I
Speaker 2: know how he can completely destroy any idea of someone's
Speaker 2: humanness when they have disappointed him.
Speaker 1: Is that because you believe you've felt that, and you've
Speaker 1: experienced feeling of nothing.
Speaker 2: He would act like I hung the moon and I
Speaker 2: was everything, and then I was nothing and I was
Speaker 2: so insignificant, And he never cared, and he didn't care
Speaker 2: what happened to.
Speaker 1: Me, what would be happening to him inside In those
Speaker 1: moments when he has rage for someone, you'd.
Speaker 2: See flickers in his face, especially his eyes. A lot
Speaker 2: of his victims have talked about his eyes. They're definitely
Speaker 2: really significant. I could see it, but I don't think
Speaker 2: anyone who didn't know you well would be able to
Speaker 2: see it. My dad's not reactive at all. He's not anxious,
Speaker 2: he's not full of well, he's probably is full of rage,
Speaker 2: but not in the sense that most people would have.
Speaker 3: Very calculated.
Speaker 2: He is very He can mask so much of what
Speaker 2: he's feeling and put a smile on his face and
Speaker 2: stew on it and come up with the plan and
Speaker 2: execute his revenge or his plan later on without any one.
Speaker 2: You know, it's very hard to say how you get
Speaker 2: victimized by my father because there's a lot of gas
Speaker 2: lighting there, and most people be like, what are you
Speaker 2: talking about? You so crazy? You're paranoid? You know, he's wonderful,
Speaker 2: and how does X, Y and Z equal this? But
Speaker 2: it is, you know, the people I'd see him like,
Speaker 2: when my dad didn't like someone, he would make jokes
Speaker 2: at their expense that everyone would laugh at, including myself,
Speaker 2: And I feel very guilty about that now. But to
Speaker 2: most people go, it's banter, it's harmless, but.
Speaker 3: It was cruel.
Speaker 2: It was always a cruelty, and he got off on
Speaker 2: making people laugh at people.
Speaker 1: He didn't like, what would you say to people or
Speaker 1: even if your father said, you just she's lying.
Speaker 4: She has a grudge against me.
Speaker 2: I think he said that to multiple people over the years.
Speaker 2: He has told I know he's spoken to one of
Speaker 2: my sons, who only very recently told me that this
Speaker 2: conversation had happened. But yeah, apparently my dad had said
Speaker 2: to him, you know, I know your mom thinks I
Speaker 2: killed Rochelle, and they had a conversation about it, and
Speaker 2: you know, he said that you know it was bikers
Speaker 2: that were responsible. And he said, you your mum believes
Speaker 2: this because of a rape case back in the eighties.
Speaker 2: And then he told the police officer's daughter story. Which
Speaker 2: are the conversations that I hadn't had with my son.
Speaker 2: So when he reported them all back to me only recently,
Speaker 2: this was he would have been about thirteen or fourteen
Speaker 2: at the time of this conversation. So yeah, he'd got
Speaker 2: into his head about it and tried to plant seeds
Speaker 2: of doubt there.
Speaker 1: Why is that you carry that shame and guilt about
Speaker 1: loving your father?
Speaker 5: I think.
Speaker 3: The way my dad is with me.
Speaker 2: Made people believe that he's not capable of bad things.
Speaker 2: You know, I know with myself, when you meet a
Speaker 2: man who's a wonderful father, you believe in his inherit goodness.
Speaker 3: And I do believe to a degree.
Speaker 2: I was a tool he used to convince people of that,
Speaker 2: and I played along. If there was an audience, my
Speaker 2: dad would really amp it up. He was very much
Speaker 2: the showman. If we're at a party, he would spin
Speaker 2: me around and dance with me and Britain. I was
Speaker 2: the center of everything, and I saw women fall over
Speaker 2: themselves with that act. He never told me how to
Speaker 2: do it, but eat into it because his love.
Speaker 3: Felt special.
Speaker 2: But when it wasn't an audience witnessing that that didn't exist.
Speaker 2: I realized very early that I was at all. It
Speaker 2: was something he used to convince people of his goodness,
Speaker 2: but I didn't.
Speaker 3: Want it to stop.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was.
Speaker 2: Very different versions of him. If he'd gone to jail,
Speaker 2: maybe I would never know him. Maybe he'd just be
Speaker 2: a story to me. Maybe I wouldn't have developed any
Speaker 2: love for him. It's a sacrifice I would have made, though,
Speaker 2: to not have my father in my life. If he
Speaker 2: had gone to jail back in those times and it
Speaker 2: was potential for him to change, he could not do
Speaker 2: what he'd done.
Speaker 4: Do you hope for a day that this will stop
Speaker 4: following you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he feels selfish to ever put any
Speaker 2: focus on that. I want this to stop following us,
Speaker 2: not at the expense of Christian and receiving justice. I
Speaker 2: will enjoy this for the rest of my life if
Speaker 2: it means they get justice and they get the answers
Speaker 2: that they deserve. I don't want him found guilty and
Speaker 2: put in jail. I want him to admit what he did.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'll take it anyway it happens, but I
Speaker 2: think they deserve that from him. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's ever going to happen. I've told him when I'm
Speaker 2: in my cruel state of mind that he helps me
Speaker 2: get to that. You know, a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: I think I wanted him in my life because I
Speaker 2: wanted a deathbed confession from him.
Speaker 3: One day.
Speaker 2: I wanted something I could take to them. I remember,
Speaker 2: you know, multiple times he's been unwell, and you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know how true it is and stuff, but
Speaker 2: I wonder if you'll say anything. I don't think he will.
Speaker 2: I think he's too selfish for that. But I know
Speaker 2: that the day i find out my father has passed,
Speaker 2: the first thing I'm going to do before I shared
Speaker 2: a single tear with better tell Christian and anyone else
Speaker 2: that I know that's been victimized by him and give
Speaker 2: them peace they deserve.
Speaker 4: What do you want Christian and to know?
Speaker 5: But I'm sorry, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Sorry that.
Speaker 2: I participated in twenty four years of him having quid
Speaker 2: fit and happy days.
Speaker 3: Jas.
Speaker 1: You were a child when this happened and has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with you. This is heartbreaking to listen to
Speaker 1: you talk like this, that you hold so much guilt
Speaker 1: either somebody else's actions.
Speaker 2: I don't know what experience. I don't I can't even
Speaker 2: comprehend it. But I've lost a child.
Speaker 3: And it's.
Speaker 2: It's the most excruciating pain in the world that it
Speaker 2: never leaves. But to add on to that, someone who
Speaker 2: has walk three for twenty four years having good memories,
Speaker 2: and I've participated in that I've told my dad I
Speaker 2: don't believe in karma, but I remember feeling like I
Speaker 2: lost my daughter as karma for sending by him.
Speaker 5: I did.
Speaker 2: Who felt like the fact that I had a knowledge
Speaker 2: deep inside me that he did this and I still
Speaker 2: only met my life. I don't even believe in the
Speaker 2: concept of it, but I feel like I need to
Speaker 2: be punished for that. I feel like.
Speaker 3: I was complicit in and what he's done and the
Speaker 3: people he's hurt.
Speaker 2: I wish he'd been got twenty four years ago and
Speaker 2: here was nothing but a story my children knew today.
Speaker 3: It's I don't want the attention of this.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be going through any of this,
Speaker 2: but it needs to happen, and if justice is never served,
Speaker 2: I think it's important that his face is known, his name,
Speaker 2: he is known, He still has, you know, his innocence
Speaker 2: and stuff. But I think it's significant that I'm his
Speaker 2: daughter and I don't believe in his innocence. And I
Speaker 2: could certainly get any attention by saying he's innocent and
Speaker 2: being loud and proud about that and.
Speaker 5: Giving interviews and supporting him.
Speaker 3: That's not what this is about.
Speaker 2: I hate even the insinuation of that.
Speaker 1: That would be a lot easier to do, but you
Speaker 1: take it in a harder step. Yes, to speak out
Speaker 1: about someone who you love yep, deep down yep.
Speaker 2: And it hurts. It hurts a lot to openly declare this.
Speaker 2: I'm sick constantly. This has been a lot. My kids
Speaker 2: have seen me in a hor refixed date over recent weeks.
Speaker 5: But it's it needs to happen. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: It's a lot, but it feels good to get it out.
Speaker 4: Coming soon on de Rochelle.
Speaker 3: I've been working with Telstra, with Optus, with Vodaphone. I
Speaker 3: have a good understanding of how the networks operate.
Speaker 5: Two twenty am.
Speaker 2: It's the same time, and it just feels like the
Speaker 2: loneliest place in the world, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: The killer knows this area well. That person has taken
Speaker 4: so much from us.
Speaker 1: Do you believe the modern technology that you have access to.
Speaker 4: Could help to solve Rochelle's case. I think you can
Speaker 4: drive us forwards.
Speaker 1: It breaks my heart yet again to have your life
Speaker 1: shared with such a massive worldwide audience. Are you saying
Speaker 1: that Rochelle's case may not have been solved because of misogyny?
Speaker 4: Y's been simple terms of my league.
Speaker 1: Our conclusion is that that alibi that he could have
Speaker 1: been in campbelltonon it's.
Speaker 4: Just impossible, just could not happen.
Speaker 2: It's rare that I'll say it's just impossible, but it's
Speaker 2: just impossible.
Speaker 1: Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia.
Speaker 1: If you want to be one of the first to
Speaker 1: find out what happens next, go to Deroshelle dot com
Speaker 1: dot au. That's where eligible Digital News Corp Australia subscribers
Speaker 1: get early access to podcast episodes and breaking news in
Speaker 1: our live investigation and you will also find exclusive videos,
Speaker 1: interactive evidence, feature articles and more.
Speaker 4: That's Deroshelle dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: If you have any tips or confidential information to share
Speaker 1: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to de
Speaker 1: Roshelle at News dot com dot au. Our supervising producer
Speaker 1: and audio editor is Rhics Gunter Rachel Fountain, His executive
Speaker 1: producer and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake.
Speaker 1: Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video editors are Gillian McNally,
Speaker 1: Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff dar
Speaker 1: Mannan and Christy Miller. Senior camera operators are Daniel Andrews
Speaker 1: and Oscar Viera. We sound designed by Martin Perolta and
Speaker 1: Travis Evans. Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lenny Panerz,
Speaker 1: Show Burreo, Fay Gould, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice,
Speaker 1: Charlotte carp Tina Coggins, and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: the Daily Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would
Speaker 1: not be possible without the help and I'm wavering support
Speaker 1: of Christy and Ann Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and
Speaker 1: Rachelle's friends. This podcast series is hosted and investigated by
Speaker 1: me Ashley Hanson