1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Today's biggest News from the Australian. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Tuesday, 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: December twenty three. New South Wales Parliament is in its 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: second day of emergency sittings. Premier Chris Mins is seeking 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: to jam through sweeping gun law reforms and crackdown on 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: hate speech and chance like globalize the Interfata. As protesters 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: defy the premier, focus has turned sharply to the Prime 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Minister and why he won't just say a genuine, simple 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: sorry to the Jewish community for what they say is 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: a climate of anti Semitism he has allowed to fester. 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm joined by our political editor Jeff Chambers. Jeff, Anthony 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: Alberanezi seems to have got himself backed into a corner. 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: Why won't he just say sorry to the Jewish community. 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: It's not uncommon for political leaders to resist, particularly someone 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: whose parliamentary career hits thirty next year. He arrived in 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: nineteene six. There is a sense of a stubbornness and 16 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: we've seen this since Anthony Aberanezi became Prime Minister in 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. Whenever there is a crisis point, he 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: finds it very difficult to take personal responsibility. This is 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: Australia's worst ever terrorist attack. It has shown that the 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: Albanese government's efforts to fight anti Semitism have failed. So 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: I think for the Jewish community and for the community 22 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: more broadly, they just want the Prime Minister to genuinely 23 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 2: say sorry. They want him to say sorry without any caveats, 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: without any conditions, and every time we've seen him try 25 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: to do that, it ends up being I have regrets, 26 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: or I take responsibility, or I'm sorry for the experience 27 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: of people. And quite often when he tries to start 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: leaning into it, he then lists off everything that he 29 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: has done on anti Semitism. So there is a really 30 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 2: fear resistance from the Prime Minister in terms of doing 31 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: what I think would be a really healing point for 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: the country. It would be a starting point to really 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: rebuild connections with the Jewish Australian community, for him to 34 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: genuinely look down the barrel of the camera and say 35 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: I am sorry. And we've seen Chris Mins be able 36 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: to do that. He's a labor Premier and the pressure 37 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: remains on the Prime Minister. 38 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: We all know the difference between a real sorry and 39 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: the kind of sorry you give when you're not really 40 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: ready to properly apologize and properly take responsibility. This is 41 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: something we learn in kindergarten and usually the reason not 42 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: to give the full I'm sorry, without any caveats is 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: that you're not ready for what might come next. You're 44 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: not ready to accept some kind of responsibility. We saw 45 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: with the apology to the Stolen Generations that Kevin Rudd 46 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: made when he first became Prime Minister, that actually, even 47 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: when people are concerned about what the consequences might be, 48 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: and in that instance there was a lot of concern 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: that that open the floodgates to all sorts of monetary 50 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: claims against the Commonwealth that had not been anticipated. In fact, 51 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: that didn't really happen. It was accepted as a genuine 52 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: effort by the Aboriginal community. They accepted that as a 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: genuine show of goodwill. Why do you think Anthony Albanezi 54 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: is holding himself back so hard on this one. 55 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: I think it goes to that very point where it 56 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: costs nothing for an unreserved apology. If you deliver an apology, 57 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 2: I don't think anyone says, Okay, everything is your fault, 58 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: You're to blame for everything. But I think there is 59 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 2: a feeling in government ranks that mistakes were made, really 60 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: critical mistakes, and that they did allow social cohesion to 61 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: tear apart in this country. And I think the concern 62 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: is if he doesn't get control of it, if he 63 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: doesn't bring the Jewish leaders around the table and listen 64 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: to them. That the very thing that led to what 65 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: we saw at Bondi. And there's a lot of elements 66 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: to that, but that general broad rise of anti Semitism, 67 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: these pro Palestinian protests globalize the anti FATA. We're already 68 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: seeing that re emerge, and it requires leadership at the 69 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: top level. We saw this with John Howard. He was 70 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: only a few months into his first term as Prime 71 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: Minister after the Port Arthur massacre, and he got up 72 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: there with a bulletproof vest on and he said to these, 73 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: to his own base, these shooters, where he was taking 74 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: questions from them, I have to do the right thing here. 75 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: If you don't vote for me, I will respect that, 76 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 2: but this is what I have to do. And at 77 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: this point in time, I am concerned that by letting 78 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: it run out or creating distractions things like the Richardson 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: review without taking it seriously, that we're going to go 80 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: back to where we were just a few months ago. 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: There's two ways it could go on there, Jeff, and 82 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: I wonder which one you think he's more likely, given 83 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: your long experience as a political reporter. Either the Prime 84 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: Minister will hold the line, there'll be a quiet inquiry 85 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: into the way the intelligence agencies acted that we may 86 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: or may not ever find out the results of that inquiry, 87 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: and the demands for an apology will peter out, or 88 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister will realize sometime in the next few 89 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: weeks that actually this is not going to stop until 90 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: he actually stands up and says I'm sorry. Do you 91 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: have a sense of which way it might go? 92 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: Well, we have seen experiences with Anthony Abernesi, nothing at 93 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: this sort of serious level. But if you, for example, 94 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: look at the superannuation tax that Labor introduced early twenty 95 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: twenty three. It took until several years, but at the 96 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: end of the day Anthony Aberesi dropped that, and we've 97 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: seen other examples of that where pressure bills and now 98 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: I would personally, I would hope it wouldn't take focus 99 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: groups or polling to direct the Prime Minister in terms 100 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: of him taking control of it. But it doesn't come 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: easily quickly or naturally for some politicians, and for Anthony Aberzi, 102 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: he would justly feel like he is not personally the 103 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: blame for this, regardless of that, in goodwill and good faith, 104 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 2: a genuine apology will go a very long way. And 105 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: then the next step after that, and he's got to 106 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: be a believable apology is to sit down with Jewish 107 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: Australian leaders and other people and listen to their concerns. 108 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: Muslim leaders as well, when we talk about concerns about 109 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 2: pockets of extremism in some of their communities. He's got 110 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: to sit down and talk to them, bring people together, 111 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 2: because everyone's talking about it in isolation, but there is 112 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: no up top leadership that's really commanding the issue. 113 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's Political editor. Thanks Jeff, Thank you. 114 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: Check out this evolving story live right now at the 115 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot and come back to the front 116 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: first thing in the morning for something really special, a 117 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve edition where I speak to our foreign editor 118 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: Greg Sheridan. As well as being a friend of the 119 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: show and one of our favorites, Greg can create a 120 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: laugh out loud moment, out of even the thorniest foreign 121 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: policy conversation. Greg is also a scholar of Christianity. In fact, 122 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: he's written a whole book where he applies journalistic techniques 123 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: of source checking and analysis to the New Testament. So 124 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to know how much of the Christmas story 125 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: is supposed to be read as literal truth, not just 126 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: an inspiring allegory. The answer surprised me. We'd love you 127 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: to join us for that special episode right here on 128 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve.