WEBVTT - Parents are the problem, says Meta

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<v Speaker 1>You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker

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<v Speaker 1>every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play

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<v Speaker 1>the news from The Australian. From the Australian, here's what's

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<v Speaker 1>on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Monday, September sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>The government's trying to clean dodgy disability providers out of

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<v Speaker 1>the NDS by forcing fifteen thousand operators to register so

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<v Speaker 1>they can be properly regulated. Some disability advocates say that

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<v Speaker 1>will force some SOG traders out of business. A pedophile

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<v Speaker 1>who groomed and abused six children has been sentenced to

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<v Speaker 1>ten years without parole, but he'll get a lifetime taxpayer

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<v Speaker 1>funded pension when he leaves jail because he was a

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<v Speaker 1>senior public servant. One of his victims' mothers is crusading

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<v Speaker 1>to have Stephen Mitchell stripped of his super entitlements. That's

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<v Speaker 1>an exclusive live now at The Australian. Dot com au.

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<v Speaker 1>Meta says it's up to the Apple and Android app

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<v Speaker 1>stores to enforce a social media ban on children, and

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<v Speaker 1>claims parents don't use existing options to keep their kids safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Online media companies are fighting back, urging the government to

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<v Speaker 1>toughen up on tech giants today, how online safety will

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<v Speaker 1>shape the looming federal election.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember once I came across a video of a

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<v Speaker 2>man being shot and was being recorded as he died.

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<v Speaker 1>This is an eighteen year old woman talking about her

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<v Speaker 1>early experiences on social media several years ago when she

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<v Speaker 1>was in her mid teens.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen it since, and I hope other young

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<v Speaker 2>people never see it. It took away most of my innocence.

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<v Speaker 1>This young woman, who isn't named, is quoted in a

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<v Speaker 1>submission to a federal parliamentary inquiry on social media and

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<v Speaker 1>Australian society. The submission is by News Corp Australia, which

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<v Speaker 1>is the parent company of The Australian and US. Here

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<v Speaker 1>at the front, the eighteen year old, whose words were

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<v Speaker 1>read for US by a voice actor, spoke to a

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<v Speaker 1>research company called Dinata, which News Corp commissioned to ask

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<v Speaker 1>Australians about their experience in that intangible, magical, terrifying world

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<v Speaker 1>that surrounds us at every moment social media.

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<v Speaker 2>I also remember one time a person who I thought

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<v Speaker 2>was a friend to being an unsolicited picture of his

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<v Speaker 2>penis and I blocked him without saying anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Social media can bring us so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Joy, healthy chocolated it which you can also put in

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<v Speaker 2>the fridge to make a moose.

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<v Speaker 3>And what do we do when somebody hates us for

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<v Speaker 3>no reason? Give them a reason with therapy or.

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<v Speaker 1>Without therapy or without therapy. Please, because my husband actually

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<v Speaker 1>just stole all of my cat. But we've all also

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<v Speaker 1>probably had one of those experiences seeing something you can't unsee.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea of children on social media consuming death and

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<v Speaker 1>misery while they sit quietly in their bedrooms horrifies parents

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<v Speaker 1>and kids themselves. But we're all addicted and none of

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<v Speaker 1>us have any power, which is why this seemed like

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<v Speaker 1>big news. The Prime Minister is vowing to ban children

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<v Speaker 1>from social media by the end of the year. We

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<v Speaker 1>know that social media is causing social harm. It's an

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<v Speaker 1>idea first floated by Peter Dutton earlier this year. And

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time, the government's introducing legislation that would

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<v Speaker 1>put rules around doxing that's revealing the private information of

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<v Speaker 1>someone without their consent, and misinformation or disinformation.

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<v Speaker 4>From both sides of politics, we're seeing red hot rhetoric

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<v Speaker 4>calling out the Elon Musks and Mark Zuckerberg's of this world.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff Chambers is The Australian's chief political correspondent.

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<v Speaker 4>For both Anthony Alberanezi and Peter Dutton. Up alongside cost

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<v Speaker 4>of living, social media harms is becoming a top tier issue.

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<v Speaker 3>So we see this flurry of activity around Parliament House.

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<v Speaker 4>I kept hearing it described to me as this is

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<v Speaker 4>such a big water cooler issue. And the Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 4>reveals that in this term of government that he will

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<v Speaker 4>legislate a minimum age of access to social media and

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<v Speaker 4>relevant tech platforms. Now, what he didn't have in that

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<v Speaker 4>announcement was what was the optimum age? And my understanding

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<v Speaker 4>is that while the Prime Minister supports Miss Dutton's idea

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<v Speaker 4>of restricting teams up to sixteen, that some around his

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<v Speaker 4>cabinet table and more broadly in caucus have differing opinions

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<v Speaker 4>on that. So inside labor and probably more broadly, there's

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<v Speaker 4>a bit of a debate over what that right age is,

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<v Speaker 4>whether it's fourteen, fifteen or sixteen. We've seen Metaglobal Affairs

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<v Speaker 4>chief Nick Klegg last Friday pushing back, suggesting that without

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<v Speaker 4>the help of Apple and Google app stores, it would

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<v Speaker 4>be very difficult to implement there are.

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<v Speaker 5>Only two choke points in the modern Internet. It's the

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<v Speaker 5>operating systems upon which everything else is built, which is

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<v Speaker 5>iOS owned by Apple and Android by Google. If you

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<v Speaker 5>ask each company's by whack them all of these things,

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<v Speaker 5>it's going to be a nightmare for parents. So I

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<v Speaker 5>think you know, in as much as the debate unfolds

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<v Speaker 5>in Australia and elsewhere, if you're going to make a

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<v Speaker 5>big move like that, you've got to make it workable.

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<v Speaker 5>It's got to cover all the apps that young people use,

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<v Speaker 5>not just some of them, and the only way is

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<v Speaker 5>through the app stores. There's no other way.

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<v Speaker 1>So Facebook says it's not on them, it's on Apple

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<v Speaker 1>and Google.

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<v Speaker 5>And this We've introduced around fifty tools over the last

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<v Speaker 5>few years to give parents more control over the time

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<v Speaker 5>that their kids spent who are they friending with? We

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<v Speaker 5>default under sixteen year olds into a much more restrictive setting,

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<v Speaker 5>so they can't be connected or communicated with by people

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<v Speaker 5>they're not connected with, et cetera, et cetera. And guess what,

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<v Speaker 5>even when we build these controls, parents don't use them.

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<v Speaker 5>I think we'll be making some very significant announcements fairly

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<v Speaker 5>soon to try and really make these controls simpler, easier,

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<v Speaker 5>particularly reassuring for parents.

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<v Speaker 4>Social media giants they've got huge war chests. They're multi

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<v Speaker 4>trillion dollar companies, armies of lobbyists, lawyers, and the general

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<v Speaker 4>view is when they see ad hoc legislation like this,

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<v Speaker 4>they view it with contempt.

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<v Speaker 1>So it seems like there's a lot going on, But

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<v Speaker 1>media companies like News Corp Australia say in their submissions

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<v Speaker 1>to the committee, in fact, the government isn't taking big,

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<v Speaker 1>bold steps to really get social platforms under control. News

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<v Speaker 1>Corp says it wants two things. First, for the government

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<v Speaker 1>to force Meta, which owns Instagram and Facebook, to negotiate

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<v Speaker 1>payments to news companies for the material it serves up

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<v Speaker 1>to its users. This was happening. You might have heard

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<v Speaker 1>about it. In twenty twenty one. Meta and Google paid

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<v Speaker 1>Australian media outlets millions for their content. That's after Meta

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<v Speaker 1>had a brief tantrum where it removed all news content

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<v Speaker 1>then restored it. But this year Meta said it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to pay anymore and claimed its users don't really

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<v Speaker 1>consume much news anyway.

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<v Speaker 4>The News Media Bargaining Code was established by Josh Freedenberg.

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<v Speaker 4>It wasn't easy to land for him, but he personally

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<v Speaker 4>took on responsibility of negotiating this outcome with the big

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<v Speaker 4>social media guys, in particular Meta and Google, and written

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<v Speaker 4>into that code, if one of the major social media

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<v Speaker 4>platforms or tech giants does withdraw not in good faith,

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<v Speaker 4>they can designate that company. What we've seen is in

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<v Speaker 4>late February early March, Meta shredded their deals, walked away.

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<v Speaker 4>We've seen this kind of behavior from Meta across the world.

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<v Speaker 4>So just over six months now, the Alberenese government has

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<v Speaker 4>talked a big game in terms of the effect of

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<v Speaker 4>what Meta has done. Anthony Alberzi could have taken this

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<v Speaker 4>on himself. Technically, the media Bargaining Code falls under Jim Charmers.

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<v Speaker 4>Jim Charmers recused himself for a conflict of interest.

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<v Speaker 1>The treasure is wife. He's a senior journalist with News

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<v Speaker 1>Corp Australia.

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<v Speaker 4>And instead of appointing a senior cabinet minister to lead

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<v Speaker 4>negotiations with Meta and swiftly determine whether the company should

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<v Speaker 4>be designated under the code, Anthony Alberizi picked assistant Treasurer

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<v Speaker 4>Stephen Jones.

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<v Speaker 3>He sits outside of Cabinet and he.

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<v Speaker 4>Is the one who's been given the responsibility to determine

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<v Speaker 4>the government's position. And again a lot of rehtric from

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<v Speaker 4>mister Jones, we're hearing that he is seriously considering an

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<v Speaker 4>alternative option of imposing a general levy, a government ordered levy,

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<v Speaker 4>instead of invoking designation powers that the government has.

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<v Speaker 3>I think the.

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<v Speaker 4>Problem here is time is just ticking. There's only three

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<v Speaker 4>joint sitting weeks left of the year, which means both

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<v Speaker 4>the Senate and the House of Representative sitting because I

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<v Speaker 4>think the government thought they might be having an early election.

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<v Speaker 4>It's almost like they're dumping out all this legislation knowing

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<v Speaker 4>full well that the reality of getting all of it

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<v Speaker 4>through by the time of an election is looking very unlikely.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, what the news organizations want? News Corp wants

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<v Speaker 1>the government to create a new system called a social License,

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<v Speaker 1>where giant tech companies would have to pay an annual

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<v Speaker 1>license fee to operate in Australia and be held liable

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<v Speaker 1>for algorithmically amplified content. That's like the video of someone's death,

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<v Speaker 1>which the eighteen year old we heard from at the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the episode said she saw during COVID so

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<v Speaker 1>when she was fourteen or fifteen. News also wants the

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<v Speaker 1>media companies to have to implement customer complaint systems so

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<v Speaker 1>you can ring a call center here in Australia to

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<v Speaker 1>raise a problem. They also want something called an ex

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<v Speaker 1>ant a competition framework that means regulations that look forward,

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<v Speaker 1>anticipating harmful situations as they arise and taking action to

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<v Speaker 1>regulate the platform's behavior. Jeff, these are our bosses. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what they want. But as an independent analyst yourself,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think the Albanezi government is actually going to

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<v Speaker 1>designate meta and or would the opposition do it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's interesting because the Coalition on a whole front of

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<v Speaker 4>different policy areas are still sticking in that opposition space

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<v Speaker 4>where they say they are the government of the day,

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<v Speaker 4>it is their decision to make. But as that election

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<v Speaker 4>comes around, we're going to have to see some clearer

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<v Speaker 4>policy indicators from the coalition. As for the government, there's

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<v Speaker 4>been lots of mixed messaging and a lot of concern

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<v Speaker 4>that a more senior cabinet minister, potentially Michelle Rowland or

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<v Speaker 4>even the Prime Minister himself haven't personally taken on this issue.

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<v Speaker 4>What it means we've got a junior minister sits outside

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<v Speaker 4>of cabinet who's leading this when you're a recall Josh

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<v Speaker 4>Freedenberg with support of Scott Morris, and they had personally

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<v Speaker 4>taken control of that and they got a big outcome

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<v Speaker 4>from it. And if Australia doesn't designate, it really does

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<v Speaker 4>undermine the future of what was a world first at

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<v Speaker 4>a world leading media bargaining code.

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<v Speaker 1>And what about that social license, Jeff, do you feel

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<v Speaker 1>like that's an idea that either the government or the

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<v Speaker 1>opposition are actually going to embrace.

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<v Speaker 4>Look, it's a new idea that's being floated and I'm

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<v Speaker 4>sure that both parties would have a close look at it.

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<v Speaker 4>I did ask Michelle Roland about a social license and

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<v Speaker 4>her response was there is nothing special about social media

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<v Speaker 4>companies when it comes to adherence with Australian law.

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<v Speaker 3>These companies aren't licensed.

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<v Speaker 4>In the way that traditional broadcasts and telecommunity location services are,

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<v Speaker 4>but they are regulated and they do have obligations to society.

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<v Speaker 3>So not an overwhelming kind of positive response.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's an interesting notion, isn't it that these companies

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<v Speaker 1>are regulated? I mean, are they.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, if you look at the tax arrangements.

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<v Speaker 4>If you look at their behaviors, I mean X now

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<v Speaker 4>have no staff based in Australia. If you wanted to

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<v Speaker 4>complain to any of these big companies, it's very, very difficult.

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<v Speaker 4>None of that really shows that there's any sort of

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<v Speaker 4>fear from them around Australian regulation.

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<v Speaker 1>Jeff Chambers is The Australian's chief political correspondent. You can

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<v Speaker 1>check out news Corp submission and read what the opposition

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<v Speaker 1>and the social platforms say right now at the Australian

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<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au