WEBVTT - Lawyer 'Concerned' Over Violence Trend On MAFS 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.560 This podcast was recorded and produced on gadigal Land. 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.400 We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians and pay 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.240 our respect to Elder's past and present. 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.719 Ladies and gentlemen, Can I please have your attention? This 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.200 is my final MATHS related interview. Are they talking about me? 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:14.760 She's like, yep. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.119 It was Australia's reactions because a lot of drama and 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:20.240 they never got it. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.760 It just went nuts. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.240 Hello and welcome back to another episode off back to reality. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.960 I'm Selena and I'm Tany and today we have, for 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.360 the first time, in fact to reality history, our first 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:40.879 ever non reality ya Pista. I big for us, very 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:42.879 excited because this is not what I think you guys 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.400 would expect from us. If he's ever made it to 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.120 Legal Talk, which I am immersed in, you would probably 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.560 recognize his face, if not his iconic mustache. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:52.880 Yeah. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.320 But what I love about this particular guess is I'm 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.800 not the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm the kid 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.720 that sit next to Tarni and copy her work. But 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.880 the way this person explains things, he just it's so simple. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.080 It's like if I can understand anyone can understand it. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.080 He breaks down celebrity cases like the Justin Baldoni and 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.120 like Lively from like how to Claim Insurance claim if 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:19.119 a Hurricane's drunk? 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.160 Yeah, like with Naughty. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:26.200 Stars mass So we thought, why not have the man, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:32.160 the myth, the legend. Jihan Kalanta Welcome, what an intro. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.280 Thank you for having me. Can you guys follow me everywhere? 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:40.880 Let's get into it. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.240 I think it'd be great to give the audience a 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.119 little context about you and how you got started in 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.960 the legal industry, because it's personally something I'm quite interested 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.880 in and I just love to hear how you got 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.880 there and then the transition to this social TikTok ozzy 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:57.640 lawyer space. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:01:58.000 Love it. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:01:59.960 Yeah, look up. So I've been a lawyer now for 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.560 I think thirteen years. I kind of came into it 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.880 after a career in banking. I didn't really like it, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.320 and I went to law school post banking, and I 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.440 kind of fell sort of into this practice of criminal defense, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.200 family law, sort of clients that have faces and clients 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.640 that have stories, and I really enjoyed it. And I've 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.320 been doing that for pretty much NonStop for thirteen years, 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.440 in different capacities, in different practice areas. But about five 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.480 years ago. You guys probably remember during the COVID nineteen pandemic. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.280 Essentially we had a huge reshuffle here in Sydney and 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.800 every day at eleven am, the Premier would come out 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.760 and be like, hey, these many people are dead, this 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.280 people are sick. Here's a new law by and would 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.359 bail And I was like, well, that didn't make any 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.320 sense to me, and my practice is on hold, I've 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.040 got stuff. It was really stressful, and so I thought, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.360 I'm going to explain sort of how these rules work. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:53.640 And the first thing I did was I read a 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.600 really detailed LinkedIn article like no one read, no one 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.560 cared at all. And then there was this thing called 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.560 TikTok that was kind of popping off. Kids were doing 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:02.959 dances on it. I thought I might explain like how 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.160 a LGAF concern works on TikTok, and like overnight I 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.480 got a hundred followers, which was crazy crazy. Yeah, that 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.280 was like unimaginable to me. So I just kept at it, 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.440 and slowly, over time, I've come to understand that people 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.920 really need access to the justice system. They feel a 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.440 little bit overwhelmed, and I don't think that we as 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.000 lawyers are particularly good at communicating what information people need. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.480 And so I've created sort of my TikTok channel and 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:32.560 across TikTok, install YouTube, sort of LinkedIn and other channels 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.720 kind of explaining the lord, making it a bit simpler 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.960 because it is complicated, but you don't need to know 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.320 the complicated part. You just need to understand the dynamics. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.120 And so that's what I try to do in my channels. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:44.840 Yeah, we were talking off Mike before. 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.240 How I think when you think of like the legal 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.920 system or like lawyers, you think it's like a faceless person. 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.040 You're like, where would you actually go to look. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.120 For someone and like what like specializing field that they 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:57.920 are like you literally I'll go and look on TikTok 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:02.320 like lawyer for X, Whereas before you just would be 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.160 googling and the website like there's no one's faces on there. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.320 You don't know who the person is representing you. And 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:11.080 it's especially when it's quite like personal things or whatever 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.480 the issue is, it's really hard to be like am 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:14.600 I gonna trust this person too? 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:15.840 Am I going to go to jail? 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.400 Or like what you've made? And this is a story 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.599 I always tell. We had a client that basically found 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.040 us online and he came to a conference. And this 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.960 is before the TikTok thing blew up. And I always 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.760 ask people like, why did you choose our law firm? 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.560 And he goes, well, it's really funny. I went to 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.680 like five different law firm sites because I was it 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.640 was an ip technical dispute about who owns the rights 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:39.679 to something. And he goes, I went to five different 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:41.680 websites and four of them had like these lawyers like 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.600 looking sad and angry, like you know, like, and then 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:46.120 there was your website and you seem like you were 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.120 smiling and happy and normal and like, I just wanted 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.320 to chatter that someone. Yeah, And so I realized that 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.840 from that experience that people there's going to be people 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.360 who see a smiley, happy, layering thing. That person doesn't 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.479 get it. They shouldn't, they don't, you know, they're not 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:00.480 right lawyer for me. But there'll be other people who, 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.599 just like you've said, they want to speak to a human, 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.160 they want to see a face, They want to get 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.279 someone who understands things, watches reality TV and is like 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.480 a normal human being. And so I think it's really 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.520 important to spread the message that lawyers come in all stripes, 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.240 including weirdos like myself with funky mustaches. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:16.799 Yeah. 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.039 No, we'll speak of reality TV. Do you watch reality TV? 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.360 And what's your what's your favorite show? 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.600 In our household? A lot of reality TV is watched 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:27.720 mostly by my beloved wife. 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.919 Your wife is beautiful, by the way, we love her. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.280 Big shout out to Hannah. She she should really be here. 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.200 She's she's the reality TV champion of the house. But 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.279 a lot of it is watched over my shoulder. Love 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:45.400 is blind. Yeah, and we just last night last night 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.839 she watched I observed, but she watched the wedding episode 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.960 and it was who stayed together and who didn't. So yes, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.279 a lot of reality TV show is watching our house. 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:56.599 Yeah, I love so that. 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.120 Would you say that's your favorite show? 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.640 I must say if you want to me what mine 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:01.720 is too hot to handle? 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:02.120 Oh? 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.320 You know what I mean, And I'll tell you why. 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.039 Because you've got these people who are so attractive, they've 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.360 never been told no, and then they have to like 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.520 be old. It's fantastic. It's a social experiment like like 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.960 anything I've ever seen. Because they're not used to they're 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.840 not used to hearing no and that is a wonderful 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.039 thing to see. It's like like watching a child being 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.159 told like no, no, you can't go and you can't 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.280 just draw on the walls. It's that but for adults. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.000 And it seems like, guys, it's not that hard. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:33.160 Seriously, money on the table one hundred grand, just like 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.440 be good for ten days. 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.760 Seriously, it's a lot of amount of money. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.680 So what inspired you to make tiktoks to begin with? 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:41.760 With? 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.279 Like all the subjects you talk about, Well, the thing 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:45.599 is I. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.400 Didn't know what people were weren't interested in. And so 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.119 one of the funny things is when you are sitting 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.080 in sort of the shoes of a lawyer, you think 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.479 that people are like really interested in things like how 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.960 does the separation of powers doctrine work? And no one 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.080 cares about that sort of stuff. What people like? The 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.160 number one question I got asked was can I drive barefeet? 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.200 With bare feet? Res A good question, right, can you? 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.640 You can? As long as you control the vehicle, you can? 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.680 And so what people were interested in was understanding things like, well, look, 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.960 how does how does the Justin Baldoni thing go down? 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.120 How does the Johnny Depth thing go down? Yeah? What 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.560 you know what when you know, they get up and 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.480 say objection, hearsay, what does that mean? 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:23.760 Yeah? 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.160 Yeah, And so you start to get really good at 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.160 understanding what people want to understand, and then you get 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.040 curious as well, like with the Johnny Depp thing, crazy. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.600 The going on that, the whole seeing things in the 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.120 public forum. I think with that case specifically, I completely 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.440 disagree with like that was so done botched, and I 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.520 just was like, this shit is not right, and I 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.000 think it does sway public opinion and I think it 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.320 does impact Like I'm an amber heard girly like I 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.440 will be be there, like I know, I think they're 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.640 both done really bad things. I just think she was 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.520 never going to win that battle, and I think she 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:58.960 also lied about things which made it. 0:07:58.880 --> 0:07:59.400 Worse for her. 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.080 And I'm just like, like, it just was awful to 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.480 watch the train wreck of that whole thing. Yeah. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:09.640 Absolutely, And from a lawyer's perspective, my mindset was more like, Okay, 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.800 you've got an article in the Washington Post about two 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.400 Californian movie stars going through a divorce. Why are we 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.480 having a court case in Virginia and why is it 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.840 being publicized in the world. That's an interesting question. League. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.360 How do you end up in Virginia behind that? How 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.320 do you end up there? And so for me, I 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.280 found that particularly fascinating. I found I mean, whether you 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.000 like him or you hate him, and I think we 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.679 can both agree both of them are highly problematic, particularly 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.520 in that relationship context. But Johnny Dep's lawyers did a 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:45.360 fantastic job totally. They did a fantastic want them and 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.920 you know, and the caliber of the witnesses you see, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.720 you'll never see something like that because most of the time, 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.440 the people with the resources to play at that level 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.160 they settle. They settle ninety nine point nine percent of 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.400 those cases. And so to be able to see that 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.000 and see it play out in real time, it's like 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.719 watching the oj trial, right, Like that's the only thing 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.040 I can kind of like, yeah, it's this it's this 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.040 circus that sways public opinion. And now we're seeing a 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:10.880 lot more of it, like you see the Asap Rocky 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:16.480 case with you know, the Megan the Stallion with Tory Lanes. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.319 It's it's becoming more of spectacle justice. And I think 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.319 that's something that's gonna it's going to be a thing 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.480 that happens. We have to get better at understanding how 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.680 we can make sure that we don't lose we don't 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.120 lose justice in the spectacle. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.360 You had a look over the Maths contract and you 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:38.640 spoke about this on your tip. 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:38.920 Yeah. 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.720 I love that video. We referenced it in one of 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.079 our first episodes. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.920 Actually, yeah, because I was like, it's I've never seen 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.040 a lawyer speak about the contract ever before. And so 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.600 when I was like, oh, you've actually seen it, be like, 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.240 I'm dying to get your thoughts on it, and just 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.520 one the most concerning clause that you saw. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.240 Yeah, So look, I won't tell you who engaged me. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.480 I won't tell you what season. I don't know if 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.000 it's evolved. And I get what you're saying. It's like saying, hey, 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.520 someone's all big foot, Like it's real. I've told you, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.040 but you know you're gonna like, yeah, it's true. What 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.679 I'll say is this, I've read a lot of Look, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.320 I'm not an employment sorry, I'm not in a entertainment lawyer. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.480 I've seen a lot of contracts. The thing that's jumped 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.520 out at me is the first page is in plain English, 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.720 and it's basically like a warning you get on a 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.240 can of bug spray like you will be portrayed however 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.480 we want, we own you, like do like be very 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.640 cautious of what you sign. And that to me was 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.800 something quite unusual, And I mean good on them for 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.280 at least like putting the label up front and letting 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.000 you know. But things like you know we're going to 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.199 record you. You may not be aware that we're recording 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.479 you as a part of that particular contract. It's staggering. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.679 Like it's really genuinely staggering. And like when you look 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:58.760 at particularly, I think a lot of people think, oh, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.880 you go on reality TV. It's going to be like 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.839 a couple of hours of filming a day. It's gonna 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.720 be like pretty chill. They get really good money. Nah, 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.880 It's it's like it's like the work of a galley slave. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.760 Like you're working twelve, thirteen, fourteen hour days being paid 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.240 like basically minimum wag. Yeah, very few, very few of 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.920 the off the safeguards you'd have in a standard employment 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.320 contractor there. And basically they are telling you, like, based 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.080 on how we feel, we very well may portray you 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.640 in a way that is completely disingenuous to who you 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.360 actually are, and we may very well destroy your life. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.640 So to me, it is I can understand why people 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.360 sign the thing because like, you know, you've got a shot. 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.240 You gotta you know, you gotta sometimes you got to 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.280 risk it for way Ski podcast. So it worked out 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.680 to Yeah, it worked out few to you and you guys, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.599 that's a testament to your tenacity and your intelligence you 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:51.920 pilate it correctly. But and I also think a lot 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.640 of people think like you just go on the show 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.320 and then that's it, Like as soon as the show's done, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.160 you just answer phone calls. Oh yeah, sure, I'll do 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:00.599 that endorsement dealt. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.199 And it's just not realistic at all. 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.439 It's a springboard. It's a springboard, and that's still. 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.439 Ask but I think they do. 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.720 They can kind of wave that around people as like 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.560 a you and I remember from out like briefing chats, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.080 like they would be like, if you want to be 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.640 like X y Z couples from the show all these people, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.600 you need to listen to what we tell you. And 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.400 that's the kind of general sentiment you have going into it. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.560 And I was always very and I think we've had 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.199 conversations about this very realistic. I'm like, Okay, I might 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.000 look like an idiot. I need to just behave their 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:34.640 way I would in real life, and then if people 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.040 don't like me who I am, I would have to 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:37.720 have to deal with that. The only thing is I 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.760 was like, if they don't like me for something that's 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:41.000 not who I am, is where I'm going to have 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:41.560 a problem. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:43.959 But it's it's the roll of the dice. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.160 Right, And I say high risk, high reward, but extremely 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.280 high risk, and only such a small percentage of people 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.880 can even sustain their normal job even after the fact, right, 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.600 Because I think there's not I guess again it's all 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.120 in the contract, but I don't think there's a seriousness 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.000 of like, hey, you probably shouldn't be a lawyer, a teacher, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.760 a certain careers. If you go on maths, I would 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.000 be like, oh, there should be a list of careers 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.920 to have that you should never ever ever go on 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.240 a show because it's like, yeah, you're probably not going 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.320 to work in that field again, even if you look good. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.800 It's just not really appropriate. And I don't think there's 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.840 that like really intricate unless you're speaking to someone like 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.360 yourself or like family and friends that are educating the space, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.120 you just wouldn't know. 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.120 I spent hours trying to persuade my client not to 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.439 go on this show. He was a smart guy. I 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.120 knew him, he was a nice person. I spent a 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.719 lot of energy telling him, don't do this. He did 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.720 it anyway, right, So you can you know, I advise 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.760 you decide. That's the role. That's my role, right, I 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.640 advise you decide. Fundamentally, it speaks to I think exactly 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.920 what you're saying, which is the what's not in the 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.360 contract and what's not in the contract? Are those conversations? Listen, 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.240 you want to be like this person, don't you like? 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.800 This person's gone on to have such a della career. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.160 They were on this show and they did what I said. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.080 So if you follow the formula, you're going to be fine. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:09.719 She's like one in a hundred yea, right. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.960 Yeah. Do you think the contestants have like any grounds 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:15.800 to fight the contract after the fact? 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:16.000 No? 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.240 You you it's a I think pretty tight. It's pretty 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.600 water tight. It's designed to be read and understood, and 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.080 there's a time to have those negotiations. But I think 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.600 that the power disparity is so substantial, right, because if 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:29.880 you say no, I'm not going to sign this I 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:31.720 want to change this. They go, no problem by and 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.280 get put in someone else. Right, So it's a it's 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.200 a seller's market. They can do as they wish. Yeah, 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.480 And so I think it is a very much take 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.240 it or leave a type situation. The only exception to 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.480 that would be, let's say you're a high profile person 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:45.960 coming into maths. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.440 Especially if they've approached you. 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.760 I think it's different if you've applied versus you being scouted, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.040 because I know there were whispers of this conversation of 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.960 certain like things being relaxed. I don't know where things eventuated, 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.480 but people that were a roach or being asked multiple 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.880 times they were able to like tighten a couple things 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:05.480 in their favor. 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.840 I think you should always always, whenever you're given a contract, 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.960 you should always get legal advice on it. You should 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.160 always push back, even if that means you lose the opportunity, 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.160 so be it. Right. I always say, if someone's not 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.400 willing to negotiate with you before they're in a relationship 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.280 with you, they're not going to negotiate when they're in 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.800 the relationship, right, So period, that's really simple. Right. So 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.400 the dynamic bit that defines the relationship before entering it 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.080 is going to define it during Yeah. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:31.720 Absolutely. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:36.200 And what advice would you give people looking to sign 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.120 a contract like this, whether it's maths, whether it's another 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:40.120 reality TV show? 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.240 What would be your like number one advice. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.320 Go speak to a lawyer, Go speak to a lawyer, 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.800 Tell me about yours. It also depends on the individual, right, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.560 Like should say you are a you know, you're a 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.720 well respected and regarded teacher, and there's a possibility that 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:56.680 you're never going to be able to work in that field. Again, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.400 that's a very different situation than you're like an eighteen 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.800 year old and like this is what you have your 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.640 heart set on. You really haven't really gone out there 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.960 and tried other things. Very different, Yeah, very very different. 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.480 And so you have to basically understand your client and 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.520 understand the contract and make sure that it makes sense. 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.760 But get advice. Yeah, definitely get advice. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.280 I didn't do this, but I think it's beneficial for 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.120 future cast to reach out to past participants, especially the 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.000 ones that they might want to emulate a career that 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:24.480 they've had. 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.520 It's I find interesting when I. 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.880 See people go to like the villains or like the 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.200 people that didn't have a good experience, as if it 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.560 would kind of help them pave a path that would 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.440 be different to the people that they're asking of. 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:38.840 So I find that interesting. 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.000 I always think like when you have these resources like 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.200 go get legal advice, which we found like a lot 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.080 of people just didn't do. Like I feel like in 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.320 my season, I was like one of the only ones 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.640 even had the lawyer like look over it, and it's 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.520 just like that's crazy to me, Like I don't think 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.200 I've had a contract that I haven't even had like 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.280 my dad like. 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:56.680 Give it, you know. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.120 Like it's like the contracts scare me, and I think, 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.160 especially something like this, there's nothing scary than something like 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:03.160 this type contract. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.840 It's look, I'm telling you, I look at contracts all day, 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:08.960 and I look at big contracts. We're talking sales of 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.960 multimillion dollar properties and whatnot. This is a big scary contract, 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:14.560 Like it's intimidating. 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.639 I was naughty. I didn't care to do that. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.240 I looked over at myself, but yeah, I guess like 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.120 COVID time, that's when my show was on, and I 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.800 was so desperate to find my husband, Like I was 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.320 just blinded by anything else. So even if a lawyer 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.760 had said to me. You know, it probably still would 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.080 have just been like, what, I'm gonna meet my soul mate? 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:36.840 You know yourself, right, And there's something to be said 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.960 for that. There's something to be said for Look, I'm 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.919 that gung ho on this that nothing you say is 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.080 going to dissuade me. And look, sometimes I've been wrong. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.080 I've told people to Like there's been deals where I 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:47.720 been like, you shouldn't do this, and then they did it. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.280 Oh wow, it ended up really really good. So all 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.840 I can do is advise based on today. Yeah, but 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:55.800 I think you also need to understand yourself. But at 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.160 the very least going to someone and knowing, hey, they're 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.800 going to do these eighteen things that I didn't expect. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.760 I better keep my If I was on the show, 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.120 I would just be taking a sobriety break. I would 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:08.800 not be drinking. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:09.520 I didn't. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.600 I had no alcoholic wine. The whole time. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.760 I was like, you were not catching me looking like 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:16.560 a hot mess for the rest of my life. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:17.880 No, there's no way. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.600 So I had like not and I was just like, no, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:21.840 I'm just not interested in that. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.920 So smart, such a simple one, because you don't and 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.080 you're filming the same scenes over and over again. They 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.720 keep topping up the thing. Just there's so many little 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:33.400 simple tricks you could use. I think that would make 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:34.440 you experience slightly better. 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:36.480 We were in the most severe lockdown. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:37.359 Yeah, so there. 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.880 Were no restaurants, pulb cafes to go to. We had, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.359 like we call them our dog walkers. Like you were 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.439 only allowed out once a day for one hour with 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.920 a producer. You couldn't even go on a walk with 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.440 your partner. So alcohol is the only thing we had. 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:53.480 So we just. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.040 Drank like little fishies. And that's why I think our 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:57.800 season was so explosive. 0:18:57.960 --> 0:18:58.760 Yeah, for sure. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:00.240 So yeah, entertain. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.719 Entertaining, well, we've seen this year a lot of the 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.200 participants go a bit rogue on socials, create accounts, which, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.160 just to preface, there's your contract obligation with the production company. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.280 Then there's also your Channel nine social media engagement contract, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.159 which essentially signs away your usage of your socials to 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.160 them for like six months. They'll post on your behalf 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.200 that whole thing, and then you get the account back. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.760 And we've noticed a lot of people this year not 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:28.480 do that because I thought we didn't really have a 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:30.800 choice to kind of caught it and you just thought, oh, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:31.160 I have. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.359 To do this otherwise I don't know, And we've seen. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.240 Quite a bit of the cast go so rogue ruin 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:43.760 storylines just completely go, just ruin the whole production essentially. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.520 Do you think there's any grounds for Channel nine and 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.760 ESA to sue them or Yeah, it definitely is. 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.360 I thought about this at some length. Why haven't they? 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.440 They probably haven't because it's good for ratings and right 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.679 now the Going Rogue has actually probably helped people about it, 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.639 so maybe that's why they haven't. But I think they 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.520 probably do have grounds to see if they wanted to. 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.360 Yeah, I wonder I always wonder what would be their 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.480 like trigger point, because I feel like it's progressively gets 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:12.200 worse and worse. 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.280 Yeah, but I feel like by far I f feel 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.919 worse in terms of going rogue and leaking stuff. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.040 I'm not the demographic and it's hitting my channel right, 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.800 and so if it's hitting me, it's hitting everyone. 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.359 Yeah, it seems like nothing gets done about it. I 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.440 know there was people in my season that broke the rules. Yeah, 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:32.400 and then I was like, oh, well, there's no consequences 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.440 to it, so why did I not do that? But 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.159 also part of me kind of respects their courage to 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.600 be so vocal about their experience because it is hard. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.240 I think typically if you were following the contract, following 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.439 what has been set out, you're not allowed to comment 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.639 on anything really, like when these storylines are happening, or 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:51.640 when you look bad, you can't. 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:52.520 You have to just cop it. 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.800 So I think part of me does respect them being like, no, actually, 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.720 this is how it happened some people. I probably agree 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.159 with more others, but yeah, I think it's almost like 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.200 people are like biting back, which. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:06.960 I know, Oh I just wait, just wait a few 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:07.359 more weeks. 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.680 People are still going to listen, Like, just wait out 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:11.720 for the season to air. People will still listen to 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:12.480 what you have to say. 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:13.040 Trust me. 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.480 Yeah, I think that it's a highly emotive thing, and 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.760 I can imagine if someone was portraying me in a 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.480 way that was disingenuous, I would want to get on 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.960 the front foot and be like, how dare you? Yeah, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.080 the other side of it might be, you know, maybe 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.000 they think that they're the level of exposure because we 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:32.800 are all talking about it, like they have done a 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.320 fantastic job of getting us to talk about it, which 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.480 is why I think the downside of suing is do 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.480 you really want to stop people who are talking about this, 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.200 or maybe they've already threatened. Maybe it hasn't gotten anywhere. 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.320 Maybe it's because they've got other bigger fish to fry. 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:47.840 I mean, the police have been involved in this particular site. 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.280 Because I wonder what the what the grounds are there? 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.160 Because we're not employees, we're contributors. That's the way it's positioned. 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.000 So I feel like we don't actually have riots like 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.159 you can't. I would probably say, yeah, if it was 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.160 a traditional workplace, the way we were treated at times, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.440 probably it wouldn't fly in a normal like environment. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.560 Save you absolutely it wouldn't fly. You would absolutely be 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.240 filing cases in relevan jurisdictions. It's insane, right, you can't 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:17.359 treat people that way. You can't work them fourteen hours 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.159 a day for minimum wage and then portray them in 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:22.159 negative lights and tell them to do this and to 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.920 tell them to do that. Like it's it's pretty insane, right, 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.320 And the fact that the fact that they get away 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.959 with it season after season is I think leading to 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.639 it becoming slightly more extreme. If you watch it, to me, 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.280 the show is getting more extreme every season, right, like 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.000 things that fly now would never have flown five seasons ago. 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.280 And I think it's dangerous, right, I really do. I 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.720 mean it concerns me that there hasn't been more oversight 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.840 over it, you know, if you have people acting in 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.480 ways that are violent. I genuinely thought after that particular 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.960 incident there would have been like, Okay, you're leaving the show. 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.080 Australia has a domestic violence problem. This is completely unacceptable. 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.040 You should be you know, taught some consequences for your actions, 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.520 regardless of what your partner thinks about the particular situation. 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:07.880 Act this week. 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.480 Bye, yeah, that's what I thought, would you know, pop out? 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.440 But in regards to Paul punching the wall, yes, yeah, 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.640 this we did want to ask your opinion on this 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.600 because it's it's interesting to see because yes, like you mentioned, 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.800 like we're in a really dark time for DV in 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.760 this country alone, and I think being able to see it, 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:27.760 it could have been an opportunity to really talk about 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:32.439 it and like to share resources, do a decent trigger warning, 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.280 to really like educate on how no, the behavior is 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.160 not okay and what if the wall isn't there next time? 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.960 Or you know, and what actual services and stuff have 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:42.680 they given him after Like they said, Okay. 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.240 We're going to give you some resources, what are those? 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:48.800 Maybe share that with the audience, because say someone is 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.400 in a real life situation, like, hey, they've never done 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:53.760 it before and this is the first time they've acted out, 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:56.680 which my personal views on that is separate. 0:23:58.119 --> 0:23:59.720 What what do they do? Where do they go? Where 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:00.440 are they help? 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.639 What's the strategy? Then I feel like that wasn't shown, 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:05.439 and that could have been like, Okay, if we're going 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.560 to keep him on, let's show Okay, if this happens 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:10.960 in your relationship, I don't know. 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:12.760 I feel like you don't stay personally. 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:15.360 I think you don't know. You don't because it escalates 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:15.920 and you die. 0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:18.840 It's not serious. 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.480 It's very serious. Okay. Was she speaking to him in 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.320 a disrespectful manner? Maybe? Does that give you the right 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:27.400 to take hands on someone? No, it's pretty clear card. 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:29.719 These are binary things, right, And I think what I 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.560 think a lot is that that is underestimated is young 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:35.720 people are watching this and they're starting to see, oh, well, 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:37.800 it's okay. If he punches the wall and then says 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:41.000 sorry to me, that's okay, then Yeah, that's all right, 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.400 He's sorry, right, And what I've seen is the whole 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:47.840 spectrum of domestic violence on this episode, on this season. Sorry, 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:52.040 you've got physical, proper domestic violence, You've got coercive control 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:57.040 on the other side, basically on camera coercive control. Don't 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:01.159 you dare tell them about how I You've got experts like, 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:03.920 I mean this, why is it not being called a Seriously, 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:07.280 why is there not like the registered board coming and saying, sir, 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:12.120 You're witnessing on camera someone coercively controlling a young woman. 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:14.760 She's terrified. Why are you making her say things she 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:16.879 likes about him? This is not healthy or normal. 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:18.720 That didn't make sense to me, And I was like, 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.159 what is the thought process behind her then saying what 0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:22.840 she likes to then catch her out being like she 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:24.760 doesn't like him or she wants to say Like I 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:27.399 didn't understand where that was going. 0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:29.200 And I was just like, and then it just ended. 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:31.880 I was naive. I thought this was a great opportunity 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.400 to show that there isn't anything you like about him. 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.760 You should leave this. Really, this is a great exercise 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:42.639 for people. Instead, it completely created the opposite sort of experience, 0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:45.840 and like, if these experts don't have DV training. You 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:48.480 need experts to do because I'm telling you for me. 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:51.280 You know, I have younger siblings. I don't want them 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:53.639 to watch that and think this is an acceptable way 0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.879 to treat your partner. You cannot punch walls because you're upset. 0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.640 That's what a four year old does, not a grown 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:03.000 adult television and if that's how he behaves when television 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:06.359 cameras are on, respectfully, I have genuine concerns about what 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.679 happens when there's when there's no oversight. And secondly, you 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:12.160 don't speak to your partner that way. You don't gaslight 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:15.639 them in the way that that's happening. It's proper coercive control. 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:17.040 There's legislation design. 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:20.800 Yeah, and this is like new stuff that's been implemented. 0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:23.640 And it's interesting because going back to Paul, we obviously 0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:26.679 saw it was his turn to share his experience and 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:29.400 like write a letter about how he feels about Karina, 0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:34.080 and for him to say she's a jealous person, she's judgmentary, 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:35.480 gives me the ick. 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:37.879 And then all this stuff. I was like, jealous person, 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:39.440 But did you not punch your wall because you were. 0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:42.840 Jealous that she slept sleeping with a wrapper, and then 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.560 you're gonna have the ike about her being upset you 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:47.480 staying with a woman for three nights. 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:49.359 It was so like typical. 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:52.480 Anyone that's been in situations of similar dynamics can recognize 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.920 his behavior. And I think it's really hard and from 0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:57.159 my experience, until I was in it, you never realize 0:26:57.320 --> 0:26:59.400 and until you're exposed to it, you will never know. 0:26:59.359 --> 0:26:59.840 What it's like. 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:02.800 We're having opportunity now to be exposed to it. We 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:05.800 need to then explain, hey, red flag, red flag, this 0:27:05.840 --> 0:27:08.320 is really bad, because yeah, you don't You sometimes don't 0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.000 know until you're in it, right, And I just think 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:14.679 there's not many other ways to have these conversations like 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:18.280 Maths is doing, and they just haven't really they missed 0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.840 the mark on how it's presented, I think, and just. 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:25.240 Like allowing him to stay and continue for the whole experiment, 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:28.000 it's just setting the tone that that behavior is okay. 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:29.399 So people are going to watch that and be like, oh, 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:30.360 it's all right to punch your wall. 0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:31.000 Well exactly. 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:36.719 And in addition to that, we've seen Adrian the DV charges, 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:39.520 which I believe have been dropped. I'm not sure what 0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:41.840 exactly those were and what the terms are around that. 0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:44.800 I personally don't know if we should be platforming people 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:46.200 that have even just an allegation. 0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:48.600 When you're doing the application process. 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:50.560 You have a police check, you do psychological of ours. 0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:52.439 This is definitely something they would have been aware of 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:55.240 if they did a simple police check. Right, Whether that 0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:58.040 was done or whether it was ignored, I'm not sure. 0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:01.880 But what's your thoughts on I guess the mainstream media 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:03.440 being able to platform. 0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:06.399 It's very tough, right, It's really tough because you know, 0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:10.480 they're false. Allegations happen. They're rare, but they happen. They're 0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:13.640 about two to five percent basically. So do you want 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.679 to destroy someone's opportunities because a false allegation or an 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.880 incorrect allegation is made. Probably not, But do you? I mean, 0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.080 I guess, is it possible to have someone who has 0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:28.159 no allegations and no backstory whatsoever? Yes? It is, And 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:29.600 I think that's the kind of people that you want 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:30.080 to promote. 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:30.400 Yeah. 0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:33.440 Right, So to me, I understood the charges were dropped. 0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:35.399 I understood the matter has gone away. He's entitled to 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.399 his presumption amnisions. He should be allowed to go on 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:40.480 with his life. But I think that what I have 0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:44.320 seen portrayed with my own eyes barring. I mean, we 0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:46.560 all know editing can make for sure custard out of 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.240 you know, anything. But what I've seen is some pretty 0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:53.400 concerning dynamics. And what I'm shocked at is the complete 0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:57.280 lack of dialogue around those dynamics and the complete lack 0:28:57.320 --> 0:29:01.360 of psychosocial education around this particular stuff. Because if you 0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:05.280 allow this, I'm telling you it's only inevita. It's a 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:08.080 matter of time until someone gets hurt, right, And it's 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:11.120 it's not a game, it's not entertainment. You can't you know, 0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:13.400 you can't be having these things play out in this 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.920 horrific way and not say anything or do anything. 0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:19.360 Yeah, it's hard because I think like a lot of 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.200 the stuff we've discussed a very important conversations to be 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:24.320 had in this stuff that's very real in like the 0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:26.800 world we live in or just reality TV. But I 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:31.680 think there's like a disjoint with how that's being communicated 0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:35.600 in such a like a mainstream like this is primetime 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.440 TV slot, right, so like you've got families watching this, 0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:41.880 how are they explaining stuff to kids? Or like how 0:29:42.480 --> 0:29:44.320 how is that I don't know, there's not it would 0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:45.000 be it would have been. 0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:45.720 I would have loved to. 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:48.280 See a great opportunity to like educate on the space 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:51.200 or like bring people in to like workshop. 0:29:51.280 --> 0:29:53.760 I don't know. I don't know what I expect from them. 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:55.520 I don't really expect something. 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:58.040 It's something, right, Like, I don't expect this complete void. 0:29:58.040 --> 0:29:59.720 I mean, look, there's an argument, you know, the David 0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:02.840 att Atborough approach. You know, you you see a tiger 0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:06.280 chasing a rabbit and you don't interfere that. I don't 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:09.600 think flies when it's a primetime slot about something as 0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:13.360 important as, you know, the relationship between two people. And 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.720 so I think you need to have a discussion to 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:18.680 tell people this is not normal or healthy or appropriate. Right, 0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.520 and if I understand it correctly, Paul got like he 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:25.920 does a counseling session once on Saturday every Saturday. Like, okay, well, sure, 0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:28.640 what has he learned in those sessions? What is about? 0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:31.440 Let's share that? Right, Let's share that, you know, because look, 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:33.680 I can understand people losing their call. You don't want 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:37.200 to destroy someone because they've had a moment of madness. 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:40.360 But also, right, you don't punch a wall like, I mean, 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:43.560 I love how we keep just like acting like this 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:47.480 is a normal behavior. It's not right. And if the 0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.320 mainstream Australia starts to think that that's okay, you're going 0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:52.200 to have a spike in domestic violence and it's just 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:52.800 what happens. 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.840 Yeah, absolutely true, because it escalates every season. Like season 0:30:56.920 --> 0:31:00.640 six we saw Martha throw wine at Cyreen. Then my 0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:04.160 season on season nine, we saw Dominica smash a wine 0:31:04.160 --> 0:31:06.320 glass in front of the whole group and then that 0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:08.320 was deemed okay, and everyone's like. 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:09.680 Yay, slay queen. 0:31:10.240 --> 0:31:13.680 Yeah, like it's crazy, and now this guy is punching 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:15.880 a hole and a lot of things and things happened. 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:16.640 Nothing's happened. 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:19.360 What is what five seasons from now? Yeah, it's fine. 0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:21.600 It just didn't break the leg. It just injured it. 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:27.200 Oh yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. You know 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:29.600 they were only in a coma for five months. You know, 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:33.240 it's it's what you would walk past, is what you accept, right, 0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:34.800 And I think that the fact that there hasn't been 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:36.240 bigger pushback is concerning. 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:37.240 Yeah, I agree. 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:39.600 I think I do feel though this year, I think 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:41.520 I just feel something brewing. I feel that there's going 0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:43.640 to be more change or I don't know. I just 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:45.760 feel like it's starting the conversation a bit more and 0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:48.520 it might trigger things to happen. 0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:48.880 I don't know. 0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:52.960 I'm hopeful of it, but it's yeah, it's interesting to see. 0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:55.040 What has transpired off the back of like topics from 0:31:55.080 --> 0:32:00.960 this season. Yeah, very fascinating. And I'm just curious your client. 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:02.880 Did he ever come back and say you're right? 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:06.520 He did not, And I did bring it up because 0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:10.080 I felt that. I also feel like, yeah, you just yeah, 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:11.800 that's he's gone. 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:15.040 Through enough, but you're still friends. 0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:17.960 Not really, No, I think I think that I think 0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:22.680 that he I was shocked at how much it fundamentally 0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:27.960 changed his personality being publicly shamed in such a wide way, 0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:30.960 And I think the poor guy probably got PTSD or 0:32:30.960 --> 0:32:33.400 something out of it. It seemed like and I can understand, 0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:35.560 I mean, I can understand that happening to people. I 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:37.719 think that we all look at these things as this 0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:40.040 like harmless bit of entertainment, but at the end of 0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:42.600 the day, there is someone whose life has changed in 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:44.120 a way. You know, you guys would get a better 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:47.480 far better than I would. But just it's not it's 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:49.080 not meant to be a blood sport. It's meant to be, 0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:51.400 you know, it's meant to be an opportunity to find 0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:53.680 the love of your life, you know, make some friends 0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:56.640 and you know, hey, I thought I liked the beach 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.720 type and like a mountain type. Who it's meant to 0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:02.160 be some goofy not like, Hey, I didn't you know 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:04.400 I have to live with the domestic violence abuse or 0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:05.719 like it's to be like that. 0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:07.080 No, totally. 0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:09.400 And do you think like given like the duty of 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:15.520 care when it comes to production and with like with this, 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:19.680 do you think there's I think, because we've spoken about 0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:23.520 people taking it too far of maybe ending their life 0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:27.000 based on their experience, whether it's on the show or 0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:30.360 the aftermath of it, do you think that the production 0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.320 or the network could be liable for that. 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:35.719 All the rules and regulations are quite different here. I 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:38.440 know in the UK, I think we were discussing this 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:40.920 off are They've got some tighter regulations around that sort 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:44.440 of thing. But I mean, what people have to understand 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:49.000 about the law is it's always inherently it's always inherently reactive. 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:51.040 So I always say this when I was in law school, 0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:52.840 and that wasn't that long ago. I like, you know, 0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:56.200 the fourteen fifteen years ago, same sex marriage was not legal. 0:33:56.600 --> 0:34:00.000 Cryptocurrency was not a thing. Now in my current practice, 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:02.400 the argument is which one of the husbands keeps the 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:05.880 cryptocurrency wallet? Right, I couldn't have learnt how to deal 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:07.360 with that when I was in law school. It wasn't 0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.359 a thing. Yeah, And so there's always going to be 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:13.640 a step behind as we catch up with the law. 0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:15.680 So does someone need to pass for that to be 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:19.160 the case? Hopefully not. I'm hopeful that this particular season 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:20.960 people have gone, yeah, look, we really push things a 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:23.279 bit too far. We better calm down and better, you know, 0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.439 we better retool, or at the very least, we better 0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:29.040 get a couple of actual DV experts on the path. 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:31.640 And if they do have those experts, maybe they're not 0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:34.200 listening to them, or maybe they're not. I don't know. 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:37.319 And I think it's hard because I also think the 0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:40.000 experts play their own role as. 0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:42.319 Actor is not the right way. 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:47.759 They are being a character that is supplementing the whole thing. Right, 0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:49.920 So I don't really hold things against them because I'm 0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:53.440 sure they have their own how they feel ethically about stuff, 0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:56.799 and I'm sure that the actual the specialization that they 0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.840 do privately with their private clients is completely different. 0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:00.640 Than what they are receiving. 0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:03.680 Basically, like glorified hosts, there's a flip to that. 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:07.120 You are a professional, You've taken oaths, you've made standards, 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.319 you hold certain licenses and representations. Right, So for me, 0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:13.160 I can't mislead the court. It's something I can't do, 0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:16.000 even if it's in a like showy context, I can't 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:18.919 do that. I've made an ethical determination that I'm going 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.279 to discharge my duties in a certain way. If you're 0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:25.279 a glorified host, right, we wouldn't held nick Liche to 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:30.160 the same Okay, okay, so you just it's just a 0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:32.120 different sort of thing. But if you are, if you 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:35.680 have those expertises right, people are gonna people will expect 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:38.439 you to do something about it. And if you're not right, 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:41.600 maybe behind the scenes they're raising whatever alarms they need 0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:43.879 to raise. But I mean, if you're a host and 0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:45.880 you get the benefits of being a host, unfortunately, you 0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:48.399 gotta have the responsibilities of being the hosts for sure. 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.400 That's sure. The scary thing is not even them talking. 0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:54.160 I don't think the audience, no wear ear piece. 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:56.520 And you can hear you can hear jarring because I 0:35:56.680 --> 0:35:59.480 literal you'd sit there and like probably the same distance 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:00.920 we are now and you can hear it. 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:03.160 You can literally hear what's being said in the earpiece. 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.239 And then you're like and it's just like just looking 0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:10.720 at each other dead pants, and it's just like sorry, 0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:11.640 it's so, just. 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:20.480 Give me a murder trial any day versus this. It's hard. 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:23.719 So if people were to go tell us about your 0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:26.520 firm and what I guess services you offer any people 0:36:26.680 --> 0:36:27.560 to go to for? 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.200 Yeah, what are some of the some of the things 0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:30.880 people could go to. 0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:35.440 We're a full service law firm. My firm's called Executive 0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:37.680 Law Group. We have an office here in Sydney. You 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:39.600 can find us all over the internet or reach out 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:41.920 to me via TikTok or any of my other channels. 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:45.000 We do everything from him with disputes specialists, so we 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:48.520 do employment disputes, family law, crime, commercial disputes, what have you. 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:50.680 We have an influencer practice where we help a lot 0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:53.320 of influencers who are dealing with things like not getting paid, 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:56.680 making sure they understand their obligations and their rights, making 0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:59.839 sure that any sort of agreement is made, that's fair 0:36:59.880 --> 0:37:01.160 to We do a fair bit of that sort of 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:03.319 stuff and it's a really exciting space. I love it. 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:06.960 I love working with influencers. It's it's it keeps me young. 0:37:07.719 --> 0:37:09.640 Love that like to question, what does it mean girls? 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:10.520 You girls keep you young? 0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:14.200 Well, it's literally, like you said before, like thirteen years ago, 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:16.920 influencer wasn't even a word that existence. So I think 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:20.120 it's like, I love that you're evolving with the times 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:22.680 here and like taking the career seriously because there is 0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:25.799 these like what's the regulations? You know, we never get 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:27.840 paid on time, like all these things which I think 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:30.279 lack that structure, And I feel like it's great to 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:32.200 have a resource week. You'd be like, yeah, actually, these 0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:32.920 are your rights. 0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:34.920 It's like any typical job you would do. 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.080 Yeah, you shouldn't have to wait in never sixty days 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:38.400 because people don't feel like paying you. 0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:42.120 So I love. I love that you're doing that as well. 0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.160 Oh, it's staggering how many influencers get taken for a ride, 0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:47.440 like you know, I I you know, from the outside, 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:49.200 when you look at the world of an influencer, you think, 0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:51.560 what a cushy job? Right, Oh my god, they just 0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:53.239 go and eat like a burger and they get paid 0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:56.280 a fortune. If you are hustling hard as an influencer, 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.920 it is hard. Like there are people who take a 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.120 lot of liberties, and so it's actually been really nice 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:03.719 to support people who are just like trying to, you know, 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:05.560 do their thing and try to learn a little bit. 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:07.600 It's it's been a really positive experience. 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:10.040 Yeah, no, I love love that. And tell us about 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:10.480 your book. 0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:14.560 Oh, thank you, thank you for remembering I've forgotten. My 0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:16.520 book's called Talk You Out of Trouble. It's coming out 0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:19.279 April twenty ninth. It's by Pan McMillan Publishers. You can 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:21.360 find it in any good bookstore or order it online 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:23.920 or pre order it to get copies. There is an 0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:28.560 audiobook I narrated. Yeah, okay, love that and it went. 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.080 And let me tell you, narrating an audiobook is so 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.160 much harder than people tell you. You've got to get 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:35.960 every word right and if you get it, John, I'm 0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:38.120 sorry you just you sounded a bit off there. Can 0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:40.920 we just get the last sentence again? So it was 0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:44.640 it's a mission. But yes, I've narrated it amazing. It's 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:46.960 coming out April twenty nine, So in any good bookstore. 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:50.680 Great gift for loved ones and family. And if you 0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:53.320 like my content, it's kind of the stories and the 0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:56.080 way that I became a lawyer, what I've learned being 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.080 a lawyer, and how you can implement that in your 0:38:58.080 --> 0:38:58.520 own life. 0:38:58.680 --> 0:39:02.000 Love that I will same absolutely. 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:05.319 Finally, ending up with one last question, let's just say, 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:09.640 if these crazy contracts weren't a thing, what reality TV 0:39:09.680 --> 0:39:10.680 show would you go on? 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:15.160 What a tough one. 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.120 I'm saying, like Survivor. 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:20.640 Oh brother, look, Apprentice. 0:39:20.800 --> 0:39:22.960 You have to understand The Apprentice would be a good one. 0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:28.920 Check out The Apprentice. The Apprentice. Yeah, my wife has 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:32.279 always said she wanted to go on Survivor. That's been 0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:35.160 her big dream. So you know, use your energy, Internet 0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:37.480 and make that happen for her. But I think Apprentice 0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:38.960 would be great. I think it'd be a lot of fun. 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:43.080 You go out there, you'd know all you hustle, you know, 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:48.680 get fired, You're fired. I thought it was self employed. 0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:52.120 I would be able to deal with that cry probably literally. 0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:55.759 Oh thank you so much for coming on. I've learnt 0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:57.719 so much. I feel like I've been in class, but 0:39:57.840 --> 0:39:59.080 in a good class, like a. 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:02.840 Nice discussion for both of you, A plus pluses. Thank you, 0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:05.320 thank you about having it's but it's a light. Thank 0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:06.680 you reality 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:10.799 M HM.