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Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook, Craig, Anthony Harper.

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Speaker 2: Oh look at us, look at us, bloody good luck

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Speaker 2: on unit's just on a sad well on one of

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Speaker 2: us better than the other.

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Speaker 1: One of us. Looks like they've had a bit of

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Speaker 1: a touch up by Bear the cat who you called

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Speaker 1: a I can't say that word. That's I say a

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Speaker 1: lot of words, but that one.

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Speaker 2: Mm, well, all cats are sea words because they're cats,

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Speaker 2: So that's a sea word. Yeah, And I did I well,

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Speaker 2: as I I think I said. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I've said it on the podcast, but I went the

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Speaker 2: other day to get a skin checked, and they you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like just hey, we'll just have a bit of

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Speaker 2: a squizze and look while we're here, well, we'll fucking

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Speaker 2: attack your face with a chainsaw.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what to remind me of Nicolas Cage,

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Speaker 1: John Revolt his face off. It looks like you've just

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Speaker 1: had that little profit. Is what you're wearing someone else's face?

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Speaker 2: That wasn't you know when I saw face off it

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Speaker 2: must have been nearly twenty years ago. I thought, gee,

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Speaker 2: that's not a bad idea. If you're a crook and

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Speaker 2: you need to get a new face, but anyway, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if that's possible. Yeah, so it ended up

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Speaker 2: being a little more significant that i'd anticipated. And I

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Speaker 2: know I have the best part of ten stitches in

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Speaker 2: my jaw. And as you said, because you hadn't seen

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Speaker 2: it and you just jump on and you said, I

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Speaker 2: look like I've been assaulted. I feel like I've been assaulted.

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Speaker 2: And then I had to pay for the privilege.

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Speaker 1: And that just makes it like I feel like you know,

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Speaker 1: when you see someone with a saw face and then

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Speaker 1: you struggle to move your face because you I can

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Speaker 1: feel that I don't want to move the muscles in

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Speaker 1: my jaw because I can see yours, and it feels

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Speaker 1: like it's sympathy pains.

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Speaker 2: Can you not make me laugh?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: It's all right? When I showed you before we went live,

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Speaker 2: when I when I do that, when I when I

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Speaker 2: try and open my mouth too wide, or eating, you know,

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Speaker 2: other than eating and opening my mouth. So it's all good,

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Speaker 2: it's all good.

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Speaker 1: What's that before you move on from it? What is

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Speaker 1: the sensation like of waiting for the biopsy results even

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's I've done it a few times. It's

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Speaker 2: a little bit nerve wracking, But yeah, you you need to.

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Speaker 2: By the way, everyone, if you don't get your skin

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Speaker 2: checked and you think, oh, will never happen to me,

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Speaker 2: well fucking think again. Think again.

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Speaker 1: Two people on this show I've had shit cut out

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Speaker 1: of their face, well and.

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Speaker 2: A million people. And like, the thing that I had

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Speaker 2: cut out of my chin looks so innocuous. It looked

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Speaker 2: like nothing. But the thing is, let's say there's something,

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Speaker 2: you know, something the size of a small pe even

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Speaker 2: that they cut. Basically, I'm showing Tiff this shape. It's

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Speaker 2: it's like an eye, like the shape of an eye,

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Speaker 2: but literally it's about what they cut out was maybe

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Speaker 2: about forty mil or I don't know, thirty, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but big like so much because they've got to get

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Speaker 2: all the borders right, So they cut it like if

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Speaker 2: you think of your pupil as the spot, and then

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Speaker 2: they cut like this eye shaped thing around and then

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Speaker 2: they go deep as fuck because they've got to get

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Speaker 2: all what they call the borders, and then they've got

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Speaker 2: to make sure they go deep and get any potentially

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Speaker 2: canterous whatever out and then they stitch that shit up anyway,

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Speaker 2: but the bottom line is, go get your skin checked.

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Speaker 2: I have had quite a few things cut out over

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Speaker 2: the years, but I have not been back for about

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Speaker 2: four years, and I'm meant to go every year. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and i'ld mate. The doctor said to me, well, you

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Speaker 2: haven't been there for a while, so I've got to

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Speaker 2: go back next week get stitches out. Then I've got

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Speaker 2: to go back the following week for more surgery than

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Speaker 2: following week stitches out, Then the following week more surgery

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Speaker 2: than the following week stitches out. What yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I've got two more lots of surgery. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: do you call it surgery? I mean they're cutting you

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Speaker 2: and stitching you, so I guess surval.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, it is surgery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's surgery. It's it's kind of under a local

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Speaker 2: of course.

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Speaker 1: How gross is it though that you can't feel the pain,

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Speaker 1: but you can feel the feeling of that your face

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Speaker 1: getting pulled away is.

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Speaker 2: Graphically yeah, And you can feel them cutting into your face.

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Speaker 1: And the sensation of like this. Okay, let's move on.

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Speaker 2: I know. And so I have had a few concerned

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Speaker 2: folk from so we're recording this Saturday ABO four minutes

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Speaker 2: past to a few a few people from Bendigo because

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Speaker 2: I'm heading up to the thriving metropolis of Bendigo, New York, London, Paris, Munich, Bendigo.

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Speaker 2: I'm heading up there. Well, clearly I love Bendigo because

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Speaker 2: I'm going I'm heading up up there tomorrow tomorrow afternoon,

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Speaker 2: two to five. So if you hear this in the

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Speaker 2: morning and you're living in the Bendigo region and you

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Speaker 2: want to rock along at two o'clock for a little

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Speaker 2: bit of info, inspo and ed Joe, get the fuck along,

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Speaker 2: just go to the website. But I've had about three

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Speaker 2: emails from people going, oh my god, Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: are you still coming to Bendy Go? Are you okay?

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Speaker 2: I'll be there. I might I might be fucking dribbling

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Speaker 2: on my chest, but I might be eating a steak

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Speaker 2: through a straw and fucking handorrhaging down the right side

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Speaker 2: of my chin. But I'll be there.

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Speaker 1: The good people of Gippsland are on the verge of

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Speaker 1: rioting for you to come down and do something down

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Speaker 1: there too. By the way, you haven't seen that happening online.

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Speaker 1: There's almost a riot in Gippsland to petition you to

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Speaker 1: come your land. Mate.

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Speaker 2: I do not know what you're talking about. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing you. But what what am I missing? What?

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Speaker 2: What do I need to There's probably a terrible time

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 1: It, the tour of your there's people in Gippsland that

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Speaker 1: are wondering why they've been left in the left in

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Speaker 1: the lurch and not included in this.

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Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, I mean last time I did one in

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Speaker 2: more Well, which just out of more Well in Churchill,

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Speaker 2: in fact, at the university there, which is all fuck,

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Speaker 2: I forget the name of it? Is it Endeavor? Is it?

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Speaker 2: I forget? I think it's I don't know. Can you

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Speaker 2: google it for me because they'll get mad at me.

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't know, but I do go to a lot

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Speaker 2: of places and they had I think it was two

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty seat room that we used and that

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Speaker 2: was booked out and lovely audience, lovely group Churchill.

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Speaker 1: What am I? What am I googling?

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Speaker 2: Churchill University College, University Federation.

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Speaker 1: That is it?

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Speaker 2: Sorry? Sorry sorry, only been there once, but yeah, beautiful

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Speaker 2: and beautiful union and beautiful little auditorium that we had

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Speaker 2: access to. So I might head back up there. But

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Speaker 2: it's been a while. It's been a while because of COVID.

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Speaker 2: Obviously we didn't do any big public events at all.

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Speaker 2: Tomorrow is not a particularly big event, but just I

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Speaker 2: think like eighty people or so, just putting my toe

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Speaker 2: back in the water, just opening the door. And then

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Speaker 2: we've got a Melbourne one, I don't know in a

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Speaker 2: month or two, and then we're going to do I'm

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Speaker 2: going to do something, then Brizzy and something, and we're

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Speaker 2: just figuring it out. You know, it's like, it's really

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't be talking about this, but fuck it, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to talk about it. You know, what's interesting is

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Speaker 2: fuck it, I'm just gonna I'm going to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: What's interesting is on facie. In the old days, you

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Speaker 2: and I may have spoken about this. But in the

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Speaker 2: old days when we would run, say an event at

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Speaker 2: Deacon University in Melbourne, obviously I go, I'm a student

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Speaker 2: at Monash, but we started early days at Deacon. So

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Speaker 2: they have a really nice lecture theater which is, as

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Speaker 2: you've been too many times, six hundred and seventy people

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Speaker 2: and with not too much trouble we would fill it

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Speaker 2: and so we would advertise on Facebook. Now you would

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Speaker 2: obviously they're not given that room away, So you've got

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Speaker 2: a great big auditorium for a whole day, we'll do

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Speaker 2: the new Project conference. So and then you've got to advertise,

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Speaker 2: you've got to get bums on seats, you know, and

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Speaker 2: so there's there's not insignificant costs. But so we would

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Speaker 2: sell tickets for a whole day. I think it would

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Speaker 2: be you know, like the retail price. You know how

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Speaker 2: everyone does, oh the retail but if you get it now,

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Speaker 2: it's all that bullshit, right, So I think the actual

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Speaker 2: price was like one forty seven, but you'd never sell

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Speaker 2: them for that, and you'd sell them for ninety seven bucks,

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Speaker 2: which would go discount, and for that they'd get a

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Speaker 2: whole day conference with eight awesome speakers. But then we

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Speaker 2: would do the early bird at like seventy seven bucks. Right,

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Speaker 2: So people are getting these tickets and you know, I

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Speaker 2: can't be objective because it's my thing, so but as

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Speaker 2: objective as I can be, seventy seven dollars for a

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Speaker 2: whole day program with great speakers from all around Australia

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Speaker 2: that are experts in their field. For me, that's a

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Speaker 2: bit of a bargain, right, full day program. But what

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Speaker 2: would happen is you would you'd sell the tickets through Facebook.

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Speaker 2: So there's and you can do Facebook advertisements and in

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Speaker 2: the old days now I'm not going to get it

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Speaker 2: exactly right here, but you'd sell a seventy seven dollar

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Speaker 2: ticket and Facebook would take seven to ten bucks, right,

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Speaker 2: and you go, okay, that's not terrible, you know, and

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Speaker 2: then you so then you might end up with say

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Speaker 2: seventy or sixty seven dollars out of the ticket, and

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Speaker 2: then out of that, you know, whatever is profit. You

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Speaker 2: pay tax on that of course, and then you take

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Speaker 2: out GST of course, and then you've got room, and

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Speaker 2: then you've got you've got to pay all your speakers.

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Speaker 2: So you've got seven times you know, like it's thousands

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Speaker 2: and thousands, right, and then at the end you go, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we made a few bucks and people had a good day.

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Speaker 2: And so you know what if you sell a seventy

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Speaker 2: seven dollar ticket, now do you know what Facebook take?

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Speaker 2: Give or take?

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Speaker 1: How much?

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Speaker 2: About fifty dollars about? I mean, it varies. But last

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Speaker 2: time we did it, which is why we went, oh,

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Speaker 2: we need to rethink this. Like you end up doing

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Speaker 2: this great big day and people like look around the

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Speaker 2: room and they go this many people times this much money,

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Speaker 2: you're killing it. Yeah, but it's you know, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not looking or winting. It's just the reality. So, I mean,

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Speaker 2: everything's evolving, and so even when you're running events now

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Speaker 2: you need to figure out how do we do this

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Speaker 2: in a way which is like you're never going to well,

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Speaker 2: I'm never going to get rich from running events, but

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Speaker 2: that's not my plan. But I just like running events

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Speaker 2: where hopefully everybody has a good time. We can be

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Speaker 2: respectful of our speakers and pay them what they are

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Speaker 2: worth and also make a few dollars, you know, because

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Speaker 2: she's got a lot of trouble will to run this event.

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Speaker 2: So the landscape has really changed, and that is why,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's partly why even doing like rural stuff

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Speaker 2: I liked where venues are not so expensive, people are

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Speaker 2: more some of them are more appreciative because they go, Wow,

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Speaker 2: thanks for coming to Bendigo or thanks for coming to

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Speaker 2: more Well or Ballorado wherever it is. Yeah, anyway, so

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Speaker 2: that's it's, you know, nothing stays the same, especially when

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Speaker 2: it comes to like business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what frustrates me the very most with social media,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know, probably again despite myself. I just

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Speaker 1: don't engage with trying to learn and figure it all

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Speaker 1: out far out your very bruise. When you lift your

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Speaker 1: head up. Oh my goodness, have you seen that angle? Wow?

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Speaker 1: Not very black.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to look too much. I feel looking

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Speaker 2: at that, I'm meant to be icing it, but I haven't,

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Speaker 2: but I should. I forget, forget, And then I'm in

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Speaker 2: bed and I'm like, I was meant to ice today.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit swollen and its bit black, I know,

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Speaker 2: and I forget. And I went over before to get

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Speaker 2: a coffee and I forgot that. I literally look like

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Speaker 2: I've had a fucking car accident or something. And the poor,

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Speaker 2: the poor young lady who would be nineteen years old

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Speaker 2: at the cafe, she was looking at me in horror,

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Speaker 2: and I was thinking, what is she looking at me

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Speaker 2: like that? For she goes, I go, could I get her?

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Speaker 2: And she's looking at me and she goes, what are

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Speaker 2: you okay? Like she's like what happened? I went, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: my face. I go, No, I'm good, No, I'm good.

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Speaker 2: I go. I know it looks fucking terrifying, but I'm good.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I know anyway, because.

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Speaker 1: Because I've got fear of missing out syndrome, and I

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Speaker 1: won't be in Bendio. And I haven't been to your

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Speaker 1: events for a long time because it's been so long.

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Speaker 1: Are they the same? Have they changed? What's this one?

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Speaker 2: There's a bit of well, since I've done this kind

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Speaker 2: of public, you know, with more than a few people,

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Speaker 2: it's been it's probably been five years, because twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: into twenty nineteen, the end of twenty nineteen, we did

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Speaker 2: our last typ conference. Do you AP project conference twenty nineteen? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because remember COVID started late twenty nineteen, early twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: I feel what we.

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Speaker 1: Did one since COVID we did one because I'm me

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Speaker 1: at Mark labasket one that we did you did one?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we did do no but not recently like we

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Speaker 2: did do one. Yeah, I think maybe it was early

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, I'm not sure, but it was a good

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Speaker 2: four anyway, four years ago at least.

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Speaker 1: Ye.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so I've opened the door again. And what's

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Speaker 2: been good is like in the last four or five years,

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Speaker 2: I've been a whole lot of new stuff and doing

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Speaker 2: my research and you know, opening opening a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of new doors. And so yeah, we're going to revisit

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Speaker 2: some older stuff, but also like the the theme of

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Speaker 2: the you know, the title theme, you know focus is

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Speaker 2: on understanding. It's called understanding you. And so I think

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Speaker 2: the ongoing you know project for all of us is,

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Speaker 2: among other things, is trying to understand ourselves, like why

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Speaker 2: do I do the things that I do? You know?

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Speaker 2: All this you know, like why do what? And the

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Speaker 2: you know, my focus? What is it like being around me?

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Speaker 2: What is the Craig experience like for others? Why does

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Speaker 2: that matter? How does TIF think theory of mind? Does

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Speaker 2: it matter that I try to not agree with or

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Speaker 2: not align with? But does it matter that I understand

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Speaker 2: how TIF thinks? Does it matter that I, you know,

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Speaker 2: all that metacognitive curiosity? Does it matter that I try

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Speaker 2: to understand? And why I think the way that I do?

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Speaker 2: Why do I have the relationship with my body that

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Speaker 2: I do? And you know, specific to you, why do

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Speaker 2: I keep picking shit blokes? You know, like we were

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Speaker 2: joking about the other day, It's like why do I

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Speaker 2: you know, and it could even be for me like

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Speaker 2: why am I commitment phobic? I'm kind of not, but

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Speaker 2: kind of am you know? What is that about? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's just getting like we're just opening the door

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Speaker 2: on this idea of trying to be more in touch

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Speaker 2: with our beliefs, our ideas, our own mind, trying to

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Speaker 2: understand why do I keep doing things that don't work?

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Speaker 2: You know, what is success for me? What is failure

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Speaker 2: for me? Why am I scared of that thing? What

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Speaker 2: is that fear about? And do I need to like

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Speaker 2: Because obviously some fears are very valid and they'll keep

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Speaker 2: you safe, and then other fears will actually fuck up

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Speaker 2: your life and derail your potential. And it's knowing which

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Speaker 2: are the ones that I need to step into or

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Speaker 2: lean into. I guess even like the idea of trying

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Speaker 2: to understand your own potential. Like I'm fascinated with I'm

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Speaker 2: not fascinated with talented people. I'm fascinated with what we

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Speaker 2: can do with the talent that we do have. Like

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Speaker 2: I've said too many times, but you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons I'm fascinated with potential is because I don't

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Speaker 2: think I innately have a huge amount of potential. I

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Speaker 2: probably have an average amount, whatever the fuck that means.

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Speaker 2: But I think because I've consistently been curious and I've

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Speaker 2: been prepared to roll up my sleeves and get uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: and fall down and fuck up and be embarrassed and

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Speaker 2: do podcasts that didn't work, and then try another one

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Speaker 2: that didn't work, and then eventually try this one and

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Speaker 2: then do six hundred episodes and lose money and then

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Speaker 2: but keep going. Then eventually you know, all that kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, being the fat kid that ended up

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Speaker 2: not being the fat kid anymore, and that process and

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Speaker 2: that journey, and then being surrounded by you know, often

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Speaker 2: being surrounded by people who I recognize, or at least

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Speaker 2: believe to be more talented than me, more genetically gifted,

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Speaker 2: more inherently intelligent or whatever, but all the while wasting

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Speaker 2: what they've got. So you know, I mean, it's really

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Speaker 2: about so for me, this workshop or even this idea

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Speaker 2: of understanding you or understanding ourselves is trying to recognize

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Speaker 2: what we're doing that's working and what we're doing that's not,

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Speaker 2: and then I guess, you know, figuring out if we

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Speaker 2: really genuinely want to be the self help spectator or

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Speaker 2: the person that actually gets in and has a crack,

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Speaker 2: you know, and just takes chances and does work and

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Speaker 2: gets uncomfortable and climbs the Mountain.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything that specifically is there one big thing

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Speaker 1: that you have in this exact space and what you

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Speaker 1: talk about and share. Is there anything that's that's chained

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Speaker 1: a way that you used to believe or perceive something

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Speaker 1: or talk about something that now you have Do you

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Speaker 1: understand differently or have a different stance.

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Speaker 2: On Yeah, one, I guess a few things. But one

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Speaker 2: thing that sprung to mind when you were asking that

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Speaker 2: was I used to be I used to be a

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Speaker 2: lot more hesitant to be truly vulnerable with an audience,

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Speaker 2: like to be to actually, you know, I think I

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Speaker 2: think it's very common for people to be like almost

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Speaker 2: fraudulently vulnerable, where they're acting vulnerable but they're not really.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a their kind of role playing vulnerability,

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Speaker 2: you know. But when I say things that about myself

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Speaker 2: that aren't good, things that like, this is not a

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Speaker 2: greg this is not an asset, this is not this

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Speaker 2: is not a good quality, or this is not a

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Speaker 2: good you know. But I think when you say, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I say that, I'm I still do stuff which

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Speaker 2: is really out of ego. You know. Still now today,

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Speaker 2: I still am insensitive at times. I still want to

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Speaker 2: be the smartest in the room at times, you know,

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Speaker 2: not all the time. But I recognize these things about

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Speaker 2: me that I don't like, and I work on them.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want self pity and I don't want

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Speaker 2: a round of applause, and I don't need a slap

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Speaker 2: on the back. And if I do need all of

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Speaker 2: those things, well then I'm just creating another problem and

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Speaker 2: another addiction.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But I think I've learned over the last five years

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Speaker 2: in a really experiential way that you know, the more

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Speaker 2: even I think some of the I think you and

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Speaker 2: I are having more raw and real conversations in the

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Speaker 2: last three six months, and we've been doing a version

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Speaker 2: of this for years now, and I think that like

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Speaker 2: we get more and more positive feedback. And it's not

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Speaker 2: because oh wow, it's it's so much more polished, or

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Speaker 2: you know, the sound is great, or or as fuck,

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Speaker 2: what a mind blowing topic, or I think it's just

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Speaker 2: you know, to a point anyway, the more that I'm

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Speaker 2: real and raw and vulnerable and honest, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I can acknowledge that I've done some good things and

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Speaker 2: acknowledge that I've done some shit things, and that I'm

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Speaker 2: a work in progress, and then I think that, as

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Speaker 2: I've said before, that getting closer to that, you know,

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Speaker 2: almost that personal, you know, not the public and not

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Speaker 2: the sorry, not the personal, but maybe the private version

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Speaker 2: of you where you can just I think there's I

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Speaker 2: think it's empowering for others when someone that they perhaps

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Speaker 2: trust or respect talks about their own bullshit, because then

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Speaker 2: we think, ah, Okay, so he ain't really special, which

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Speaker 2: I'm not. He ain't that special, but nonetheless he's doing

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Speaker 2: some cool things. Maybe I can do some cool things too.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I could build a business or brand, or do

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Speaker 2: a course, or fix my problems or overcome my addiction

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Speaker 2: or have a great relationship or you know, overcome my

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Speaker 2: self limiting beliefs or whatever it is, you know, And

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Speaker 2: for me, that, yeah, that I think that vulnerability is

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Speaker 2: a gift for yourself, and at times I think it's

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Speaker 2: a gift for others, depending on who's listening and where

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Speaker 2: they're at.

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Speaker 1: I love that, you know.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, So anyway, that's the that's the new. I'm excited.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to get in front of a group again.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to you know. I did a gig the

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Speaker 2: other day for Buxton, a real estate Mornington Peninsula, Buxton

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Speaker 2: real Estate, and I don't know, just I don't know

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Speaker 2: what it is, but I feel like there's been a

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Speaker 2: This sounds weird, but there's been a shift lately. I

400
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Speaker 2: told you I've never had a standing ovation in my life,

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Speaker 2: and two weeks ago I had two in a week

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Speaker 2: with two different groups. And I'm not saying that sound

403
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Speaker 2: good because I'm more surprised than fucking anyone. But what

404
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: I trust me, I'm like, what the fuck is standing for?

405
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Speaker 2: I literally was? I literally was. I didn't know why,

406
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Speaker 2: and then I went, oh, I must have done a

407
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Speaker 2: good job, but I did, I did a I don't know.

408
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Speaker 2: It's like it's almost like the less I prep, you know,

409
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Speaker 2: I need to know what I'm going to do, but

410
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Speaker 2: the less I prep and the less I perform right

411
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Speaker 2: and then yeah, you know what I mean, Like this

412
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Speaker 2: version of me right now, the more I can bring

413
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Speaker 2: this version of me to a three hour workshop where

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Speaker 2: it's really it's just more of a group conversation led

415
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Speaker 2: by me, and of course I'm going to be the

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Speaker 2: guy sharing the bulk of the thoughts and ideas and

417
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Speaker 2: stories and strategies, but nonetheless really more a facilitator than

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Speaker 2: a coach up the front barking kind of orders or directives,

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Speaker 2: you know. But the other good thing in the middle

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Speaker 2: of all of that is so much fucking easier, Like

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Speaker 2: it's so much easier just going oh, you know, like ah.

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Speaker 2: And then I did the gig like I said, for

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Speaker 2: Bucks and the other day, and I just got the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful message saying that. You know, I won't say

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Speaker 2: what they said because I'll sound like a wanker, but

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Speaker 2: just the nicest message ever.

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Speaker 1: Do I think what do you think has contributed? What

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Speaker 1: are the all of the things that might have contributed

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Speaker 1: to that shift? In this overtime, I.

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Speaker 2: Think I've accepted the fact more than ever that some

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Speaker 2: people are going to really resonate with me and some

432
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: are not. And it's okay, yeah, and this is going

433
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 2: to sound silly, but okay, let me preface what I'm

434
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: going to say with I want people to like me

435
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: because I'm human and normal. However, I don't care as

436
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 2: much as I used to about whether or not people

437
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: like me. Yeah, because if my priority is whether or

438
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: not people like me or being likable, then I can't

439
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: do the best job because I've got the wrong goal.

440
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: If my goal is to be the best person for

441
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: the group, like, because I know that some of the

442
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 2: things that you know, you get more than two people

443
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: in a room where you're going to fucking ruffle feathers, right,

444
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 2: So I know that I will say things that might

445
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: not with some people in the room be comfortable for them,

446
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: or what they want to hear might not be well received.

447
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: But you've just got to accept that, you know, and

448
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: and you know. More and more, I just go, look,

449
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: I know that some people will you know, if the

450
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: majority don't, then I'm barking up the wrong tree. But

451
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: more and more, I'm just comfortable with people not liking me,

452
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 2: although that's not my intentional goal. But you know, one

453
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: of my lectures from university first time round a guy

454
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: who played footy for sin Kilda and Richmond. His name

455
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: is doctor Paul Callery, and he said to me. We

456
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: were having a chat and he said, you know, mister Harper.

457
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: He goes, if you don't want to offend anyone, then

458
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: say nothing, do nothing, be nothing, and stand for nothing.

459
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: And I went, oh, wow, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing,

460
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: stand for nothing. He goes, that's the only way, and

461
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: he goes and by the way, you'll still offend people

462
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: because people look for reasons to get offended. You can

463
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 2: have the best motives and tensions and whatever, and there's

464
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 2: still somebody, you know. So yeah, so it's been. It's

465
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: been an interesting journey of self discovery. And you know,

466
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: you would hope that when you do a PhD in

467
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: self awareness that you might get some along the way.

468
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: You would hope that some of that research might rub

469
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 2: off and that you might actually you might actually acknowledge

470
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 2: and accept and you know, do something about some of

471
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: your own bullshit as you try to bring other people's

472
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 2: bullshit to their own attention, you know. So yeah, it's been. Yeah,

473
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: well isn't it.

474
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: You know, And it's quite divine when you think about

475
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: your area of research. Started out wanting to look at

476
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: motivation and you were you were I was about to

477
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: saying the most motivated guy, but you were someone who

478
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: who exercised what looks like motivation your whole life in

479
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: and have trouble with that, and you've gone into a

480
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: space that's actually allowed you to grow and develop in

481
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: a different area. Yes, like how beautiful?

482
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you? And I think also, you know, I

483
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: needed to and I probably didn't know I needed to,

484
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't. You know, it's like when you

485
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: think you're right about stuff. I don't think I was

486
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: overly arrogant because I always had like shit self esteem

487
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: and imposter syndrome. But you know when you think you're right,

488
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,239
Speaker 2: like we all think we're right about certain things, to

489
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: the point where it's like, oh no, I don't think

490
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: I'm right. I fucking know I'm right now. You know,

491
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: that's almost like the ultimate in I don't know, self

492
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: belief arrogance. I don't know, maybe it's a blurry line there,

493
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: but you know, there are things that I used to

494
00:27:52,320 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: think that I absolutely, positive, positively, unequivocally I thought that

495
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 2: Not only did I believe that, I thought I knew it.

496
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: I thought, oh no, I know this to be No,

497
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 2: this is not a this is not a belief, this

498
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: is knowledge. But then over time I went on, no,

499
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: I didn't know at all. I just thought I knew.

500
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: It's like I thought I knew, and being able to

501
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: be honest enough and brave enough, which I'm not always,

502
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 2: but to change your mind about things, changing your mind

503
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 2: saying I was wrong, not oh yeah, but but but

504
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: oh no, not fuck all that just I was wrong

505
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: the end, I was wrong, you were right the end.

506
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: Or I don't know. I don't know. I wish I knew.

507
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: I have an opinion, I have an idea, I have

508
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: some thoughts, but I don't actually know, because people are scared,

509
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: because people don't like the unknown. What do you think

510
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: happens when we die, Craig, I mean that hundreds of

511
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: times or a version of that, life, death, God, eternity,

512
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: you know, blah blah, life after death. You know. I

513
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: spent my life thinking about that. I spent my life

514
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: in church, being taught, told, trained, programmed, educated, fucking manipulated

515
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: coerce to believe a certain paradigm, to to intertwine my

516
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: mind with a certain theology and philosophy. But when I

517
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: step back now and I think about my thinking, I

518
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: open the metacognitive door and I try to remove myself

519
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: from the programming. The truth is I don't know. That's

520
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: the truth. That's the uncomfortable truth. I don't know what.

521
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. If there's a god. I wish I

522
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: could go, oh, I know there is, but I'd be lying.

523
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: And anyone who says they know, well, I shouldn't say that.

524
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: But to me it's like, well, if you know, then

525
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: show me the evidence, and nobody's got evidence. If we

526
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: had evidence and we have knowledge, then that would make

527
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: faith redundant. And religion is all about faith, and it's okay.

528
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 2: It's okay that you believe, and it's okay that I

529
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: believe or don't believe, but it's like it's when it

530
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: comes to certain things, we don't like not knowing. We

531
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 2: don't like being out of control. We don't like the uncertainty,

532
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: we don't like the unfamiliarity of ol. I spent my

533
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: life believing this, and now I'm out here, which is

534
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: why I absolutely fucking loved that book Unfollow that You'll

535
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: have you? Where are you with that? Where are you

536
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: up to?

537
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: I've listened to most of it.

538
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: I loved that book, and I've spoken about it before.

539
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: But it's called Unfollow. It's by Megan Phelps Roper. Listen

540
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: to it on audible if you want to listen to

541
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: talk about somebody absolutely being heroically brave and challenging the

542
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: cult that she grew up inwashing, the manipulation, the control.

543
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: She is so brave, that woman, so brave, so evolved,

544
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: so enlightened, like she inspired me that woman. She's fucking amazing.

545
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: And apart from the fact that it's just a cracking story,

546
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: like just the story, it's worth it listening. It's worth

547
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: listening just for the story, but the magical insights in that,

548
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, about the way that programming, manipulation, control, cognition, metacognition, culture. Family.

549
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: Is so much great shit in there. It's like, that's

550
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: like a PhD of the mind. Just that book.

551
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

552
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: Fuck, if you can listen to that, think about all

553
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: of the myriad of brilliant messages in there, and the

554
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: insights and the truth and the wisdom. Oh my god,

555
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: it's one of the best books I've ever read. And

556
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 2: I've read definitely more than a thousand books. It's like

557
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: a fucking great book. And I don't know her everyone,

558
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: and I'm not on the payroll.

559
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: You probably should be.

560
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: I probably should because I reckon. I've turned one hundred

561
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: people onto it. So that's what I'm doing tomorrow. TIF.

562
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: I love that.

563
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: If you feel compelled, get in the car and come up.

564
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: Go see Harps. See Uncle Harps.

565
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah what about you though, you can do five months.

566
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm running a boxing workshop in Port Melbourne on Sunday.

567
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: Now, old mate is going to get mad at me,

568
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: and I apologize to him when I get our fhile. Remember,

569
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: but you know, I always love opening the door for people, right.

570
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: I love you, know, like you're wanted. Not that you

571
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: would have got there anyway, but I think I helped

572
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: you open the door a little bit, right because I

573
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: recognize in you all the things you know, drive, courage, knowledge,

574
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: good communication, and a desire to be you know, doing

575
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: the things that you're now doing and more. And so

576
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: in my own way, I kind of helped you along

577
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: a little bit. And I love that where I can

578
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: when I meet somebody and I think, oh wow, and

579
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: then I open a door for them, and I don't

580
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: like they take the opportunity just like you did. And

581
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: then it's all about your work and your effort and

582
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: your talent. So there was a young guy who used

583
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: to think he still follows me. But last time I

584
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: went to Bendigo was maybe twenty seventeen maybe, and I

585
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: was kind of over via social media or via messaging,

586
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: just helping him out. He was sending me. He sent

587
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: me a thing going, oh, I want to be a

588
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: stand up comic, and then it done a couple of gigs,

589
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: a few open mics, and yeah, I mean I love

590
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: stand up comedy and we you know, we're going back

591
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: and forth. He sent me like a minute or two

592
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: of his stand up and then a few photos, and

593
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: I was encouraging him and he lived. I don't know.

594
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: I actually think he lives down here. And I don't

595
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: know why I have this idea, but last time I

596
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: went to Bendigo and it was a really big group.

597
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: Last time it was like three hundred, and I said

598
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: to him, how would you like to do stand up

599
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: to three hundred people? And he's like what? And so

600
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: I gave him an invitation where he could come to

601
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: Bendigo and I said, you can open for me, And

602
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: I think I gave him like eight minutes, which is

603
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: an eternity.

604
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

605
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: When you're like somebody who's not a kind of recognized

606
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 2: professional comic, they call them open micers. So you could

607
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: be an open micer tonight. You could go and they'll go,

608
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: here's two minutes, get up, do your best. Right. You're

609
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: an open micer, you're just learning, you're practicing, and generally

610
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: they're somewhere between shitthouse and not very good. Right but

611
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: now and then you know you're building skill, you're getting time.

612
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: So anyway, he came, he came, and he did. I

613
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: can't remember. It was somewhere between five and eight minutes

614
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: in front of three hundred people, and it was a

615
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: very warm, proud. Yeah he didn't do awesome, but he

616
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: definitely didn't crash and burn. He did for where he

617
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: was at on his comedic journey, he did pretty well.

618
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just thought of that then while we're talking,

619
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: I thought, yeah, it's so fun. It's fun to be

620
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: able to do that for people.

621
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: Oh, that'd be amazing. The thing with comedy is the

622
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: delivery is actually everything, and the delivery is the thing

623
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: that you are going to be the shittest at when

624
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: you first start getting in front of audiences you've never

625
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,959
Speaker 1: been in front of before. Oh my god, I inge

626
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: on Carl Barron. I think he's my favorite. Binge on him.

627
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: I can watch the same jokes over and over and

628
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: over and laugh every time, and I think to myself,

629
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: if he didn't carry on the way he does, they're

630
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: not funny words, No, it's just dumb mannerisms in his

631
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: delivery and everything that's right, that's right.

632
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 2: Here, here's a brilliant comic. And if you just if

633
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: you didn't have his facial expressions, his energy, his physical humor,

634
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: he's timing his delivery. But if you just looked at

635
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: the words on twenty pages, you went, here's what he said,

636
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 2: and you looked at it, you go, that's the unfunniest

637
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: shit I've ever seen. But then you put then you

638
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: wrap it around him, and it's fucking hilarious because he's hilarious.

639
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: I love you so much.

640
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: But when he talks about his old man, don't be

641
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: a dickhead, kyl. Yeah, all right, I'm not sure we

642
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: covered anything today, but that is okay, Tiffany and Cook.

643
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to put some ice on my face.

644
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: You go on ice, that bad boy.

645
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: Put my head in a sling. Thanks TIV, Thanks ups