1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,800
Speaker 1: Just want to look at the issue of deep fake

2
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: laws now interstate. A child this week was arrested, yes,

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 1: a child for making deep fakes of classmates in pornographic

4
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,200
Speaker 1: situations and sending them out to friends at the school,

5
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,440
Speaker 1: and legislation goes before the Upper House today State Parliament

6
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: here in South Australia, SSAY Best introducing a bill to

7
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,120
Speaker 1: close the deep fake vacancy in our laws, where deep

8
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 1: fakes may be permitted under existing legislation. I understand. Let's

9
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: have a chat with Connie Bnaros from SSAY Best, who

10
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 1: is putting up the legislation covering creation, distribution and the

11
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 1: threat to distribute artificially generated invasive images deep fakes.

12
00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 2: Connie, good morning, Good morning, Matthian, good morning to you listeners.

13
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: Obviously very important. We don't have anything covering this in

14
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 1: Essay at the moment.

15
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, there is a gap in the law, and

16
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 2: I think it's a reflection of the fact that this

17
00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 2: technology around deep fake is growing at such a rapid

18
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 2: rate that no one could have really predicted what was

19
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: going to be happening a year ago. What's happening today

20
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,319
Speaker 2: was literally only available to hackers and underground scammers. And

21
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 2: now it's available to every single person at the press

22
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 2: of a button. So what I've done is introduced a

23
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,640
Speaker 2: bill into Parliament that'll do two things in terms of

24
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,800
Speaker 2: closing that gap. We have existing laws around the creation

25
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:42,279
Speaker 2: and distribution of invasive material, but we don't have laws

26
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 2: around the creation of deep fake. And there are two

27
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 2: things that you need to bear in mind here. We've

28
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 2: got new offenses relating to the creation, distribution and the

29
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,560
Speaker 2: threat to do so of AI that is sexually explicit

30
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 2: where it resembles an actual person. So just to break

31
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 2: that down for your listeners, I can go now online,

32
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,240
Speaker 2: Matthew and download a photo of you. I can put

33
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,639
Speaker 2: that into an app, and I can make a sexually

34
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 2: explicit pornographic photo that resembles you so much so that

35
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 2: anyone would be fulled to think it's you, and that's

36
00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 2: not captured by the law at the moment. The flip

37
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:38,440
Speaker 2: side to that is I can go online and do

38
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 2: exactly the same and let AI generate an image that

39
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 2: looks like you so much so that people would be

40
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 2: falled into thinking it's actually your faith and that's not

41
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 2: captured by the current laws either. So that's where we're

42
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,239
Speaker 2: creating the new offense to make sure that the creation

43
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:04,760
Speaker 2: of that ai sexualized deep fake, whether it resembles somebody

44
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 2: or whether it uses an actual image of somebody, is

45
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,080
Speaker 2: dealt with appropriately in the law and it will become

46
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 2: a criminal offense as it.

47
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 1: Should, as it should absolutely what sort of penalties.

48
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,239
Speaker 2: We're doubling the penalties that exist now for so there

49
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 2: is we've seen a really successful campaign here in Soustralia

50
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,959
Speaker 2: around sex thingvolds, particularly amongst miners, right so revenge porn

51
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 2: if you think about it. And so what we're doing

52
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,200
Speaker 2: is doubling the penalty when it comes to using the

53
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 2: image of an actual person and creating those new offenses

54
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 2: when we're talking about something one that resembles a person,

55
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,120
Speaker 2: so doubling them from one year in a ten thousand

56
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,920
Speaker 2: maximummum dollar fine to two years and a twenty thousand

57
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 2: dollars maximum fine. But where it involves the depiction of

58
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 2: someone who's under the age of seventeen, the penalties will

59
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 2: be even higher four years imprisonment than forty thousand and Matthew,

60
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 2: if I can give you one example that you know

61
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,880
Speaker 2: your listeners might be interested in knowing about. There's a

62
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,880
Speaker 2: school in Melbourne at the moment, fifty fifty of its

63
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 2: students have had their photos taken and put into what

64
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 2: the police have called obscene pornographic images, and they have

65
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 2: then been circulated on Instagram and snapchat and social media

66
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,480
Speaker 2: amongst the schoolmates, so amongst school kids. Schools have become

67
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 2: a breeding ground for this sort of material as well,

68
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 2: and that should horrify every parent to know that this

69
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 2: could happen to any one of their kids and there's

70
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,520
Speaker 2: currently nothing in there to penalize the people who are

71
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 2: doing this.

72
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: Should these laws target you because the school situation is

73
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 1: children doing it to classmates?

74
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 2: Should they?

75
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,040
Speaker 1: Now, obviously there needs to be penalties for that. There

76
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 1: needs to be some sort of punishment for that. But

77
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,280
Speaker 1: should kids be caught up in these laws?

78
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 2: No, kids are always in event the kids are caught

79
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 2: up now in the sexting laws. And I say that

80
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,839
Speaker 2: because I say that the success of those sexting laws

81
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,080
Speaker 2: is in the fact that the penalty serves as a

82
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 2: de terrance. Before those laws were introduced, sexting, you know,

83
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 2: sending those images around kids thinking quite innocently, was rife.

84
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,839
Speaker 2: That's been rained in. It's part of the education curriculum

85
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 2: now as well. But you have to remember when I'm

86
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 2: talking about creating an image of a kid under seventeen,

87
00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,400
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily another kid making that image either. These

88
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 2: are being used and sold and traded and you know,

89
00:05:55,160 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 2: shared on pornographic websites and all they need is go online,

90
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, pick a face that you fancy and the

91
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 2: next thing you know, you've turned that into a piece

92
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 2: of pornographic material. Now, where someone is doing that with

93
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 2: an image of a child, then absolutely that needs to

94
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,920
Speaker 2: be subject to much harsher penalty sure than adults.

95
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So like your MPs, your colleagues in Parliament, they're

96
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:25,360
Speaker 1: likely to support.

97
00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,520
Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm really hoping so this is in line

98
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 2: with other measures that I've been involved in and that

99
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 2: I've successfully passed through Parliament. It's in line with Carly's law,

100
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 2: and we know how important that was. We got the

101
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 2: ban on childlike sex souls for the same sorts of reasons.

102
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 2: We have really tough laws here in South Australia when

103
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,200
Speaker 2: it comes to child exploitation material, and I want to

104
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,440
Speaker 2: make those even tougher by ensuring that we close this loophole.

105
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 2: But this is a affecting people every day we're hearing about.

106
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,720
Speaker 2: You know, I used Taylor Swift as the example yesterday,

107
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 2: and she's a perfect example of how, you know, horrible

108
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 2: this can be. In a matter of seconds, there were

109
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 2: sexually invasive images made of Taylor Swift that gathered something

110
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 2: like forty seven million views across the globe as soon

111
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 2: as they were released and before they were taken down

112
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 2: by social media. Now that's someone who's you know, prominent

113
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 2: and globally renowned and known, and the impact on her,

114
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 2: we know, has been profound. Imagine this happening to a kid,

115
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 2: or to one of us amongst our colleagues. Imagine it

116
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 2: being shared as revenge porn by an intimate partner or

117
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 2: someone who you know you've had a fall out with,

118
00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,040
Speaker 2: or even in your workplace. You know, it has a

119
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 2: profound effect and it has in many cases resulted in suicide.

120
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 1: You talk of Taylor Swift, I mean there have been

121
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 1: many celebrities caught up in this over the years where

122
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: where fake images have been created and you know, sadly

123
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 1: still it happens, and it's not just celebrities, but.

124
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 2: It's one thing to create a fake image, It's one

125
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 2: thing to create a meme. It's quite another and it's

126
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,240
Speaker 2: quite deliberate where I am taking a picture of Matthew

127
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 2: Pantellas and I'm putting that in an app and it

128
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 2: is generating what the police have called disturbing, obscene and

129
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,480
Speaker 2: sexually explicit images.

130
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 1: Hope your legislation gets up. Connie certainly needs to thank

131
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 1: you deep Thank you very much deep fake legislation before

132
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,559
Speaker 1: State Parliament. Connie Bernaros from SA Best Upper House MP

133
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 1: and State Parliament