WEBVTT - The Bolt Report | 29 September

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<v Speaker 1>This is the Bolt Report. Good evening and welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's what's coming up tonight as interest rates rise to 4.6%.

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<v Speaker 2>The only thing hotter than inflation is the blame game.

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<v Speaker 2>The Treasurer is saying one thing, the RBA another. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>talk to Dan Tehan shortly. We've been promised a green

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<v Speaker 2>dream will turn us into a renewable superpower, but is

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<v Speaker 2>our over-reliance on cheap Chinese batteries making our entire way

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<v Speaker 2>of life completely reliant on a foreign power system? I'll

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<v Speaker 2>talk to Peter Jennings about the risks. And the Greens

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<v Speaker 2>are in need of a new leader. I'm gonna get

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<v Speaker 2>my panel to help me sift through the contenders, and

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<v Speaker 2>I promise you, it is quite the lineup.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll get to all of that shortly, but first.

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<v Speaker 2>Emmy Award-winning actress Cameron Manheim was giving a speech at

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<v Speaker 2>the Human Rights Campaign dinner over the weekend, where she

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<v Speaker 2>revealed something apparently that every mother dreams about, a gay son.

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<v Speaker 3>I always wanted a gay son.

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<v Speaker 1>I did.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's just admit it.

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<v Speaker 3>Gay sons are the best, right?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there you have it. For years, we were told

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<v Speaker 1>it was terribly.

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<v Speaker 2>Wrong for parents to have expectations about their children's sexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>Turns out that only applies to, you know, certain expectations

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<v Speaker 2>like heterosexuality. Mannheim explained that during her child's son's childhood,

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<v Speaker 2>things had been looking extremely promising. By which I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he was displaying all the approved cultural indicators.

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<v Speaker 3>I have photographs of my son in high heels, in

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<v Speaker 3>full drag. He knows every word to every musical ever written. Truly,

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<v Speaker 3>I thought I had this thing locked up. But no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>he's the only straight guy in his entire musical theater company.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine spending so many years carefully reading all the cultural

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<v Speaker 2>tea leaves only to have your son come home and

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<v Speaker 2>announce he likes women.

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<v Speaker 1>Where did she go so wrong? But it got even worse.

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<v Speaker 2>Mannheim finished her speech by sharing that when she discovered

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<v Speaker 2>her friend had a gay son, well, she reacted with

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of envy normally reserved for someone finding out

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<v Speaker 2>their friend had won Powerball.

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<v Speaker 3>When Marsha called me... About 10 years ago, to tell

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<v Speaker 3>me that her son had come out to her as gay,

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<v Speaker 3>all I said was, oh my God, you are so lucky!

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<v Speaker 1>A couple of points. Why are the left so heterophobic?

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<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine if she'd said that she wished her

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<v Speaker 2>gay son was straight? Imagine her standing in front of a,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, a Christian audience and sharing disappointment that

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<v Speaker 2>her poor baby boy had turned out to be gay.

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<v Speaker 1>If she'd done that, we would never hear the end

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<v Speaker 1>of it. There'd be apologies, boycotts.

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<v Speaker 2>Emergency statements from publicists, and I dare say her next

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<v Speaker 2>acting role would be playing third woman from the left

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<v Speaker 2>in a community theatre production of Oklahoma. But apparently, wishing

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<v Speaker 2>your straight child was gay, well, that's charming.

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<v Speaker 1>You heard the crowd cheering.

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<v Speaker 2>In our supposedly non-judgmental culture, there are still some perfectly

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<v Speaker 2>acceptable biases, apparently.

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<v Speaker 1>They've just changed direction.

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<v Speaker 2>And the cultural moment, well, it got even stranger during

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<v Speaker 2>the week because at the same time that Mannheim was

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<v Speaker 2>giving that speech, actress Naomi Watts was parading her trans

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<v Speaker 2>son like a woke fashion accessory in front of the press.

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<v Speaker 2>And all of this coincides with the publication of the

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<v Speaker 2>latest edition of New York Magazine, in which this month's

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<v Speaker 2>theme is men's style. So of all the stylish men

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<v Speaker 2>they could find to put on the cover, who do

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<v Speaker 2>you reckon they got? biological woman, Elliot Page, displaying the

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<v Speaker 2>results of what they politely call chest surgery. Now, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not mocking any of this. I'm just noticing, which at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment I think is still legal. Speaking of things

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<v Speaker 2>you notice, how is it that during a cost of

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<v Speaker 2>living crisis, when Australians are counting every dollar at the

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<v Speaker 2>supermarket and wondering whether turning on the heater constitutes reckless

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<v Speaker 2>financial behaviour, the taxpayer funded ABC still has money for this?

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<v Speaker 3>Let's talk about kink.

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<v Speaker 5>If someone is new to this kink and they want

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<v Speaker 5>to start exploring it or exploring kink more generally, what's

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<v Speaker 5>something they should take into consideration?

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<v Speaker 6>Just reach out to your local pub.

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<v Speaker 7>We're here to have fun, express ourselves and show the

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<v Speaker 7>world what pubs are made of.

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<v Speaker 3>Grace McKinnon, ABC News.

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<v Speaker 2>Somewhere between covering wars, interest rates, the housing crisis and

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<v Speaker 2>the cost of living, someone at the National Broadcaster decided

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<v Speaker 2>Australians urgently needed to know how to get started in

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<v Speaker 2>pup kink. There was once a quaint idea that institutions

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<v Speaker 2>existed to reflect the society they served. Now, increasingly, it

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<v Speaker 2>feels as though institutions exist to lecture society about what

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<v Speaker 2>they ought to become. Hollywood celebrates a mum wishing her

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<v Speaker 2>straight son was gay. A magazine's feature on men's style

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<v Speaker 2>features a biological woman displaying chest surgery scars. And the

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<v Speaker 2>ABC explains kink to taxpayers.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, I'm not mocking.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just noticing, though increasingly noticing, maybe the most subversive

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<v Speaker 2>thing you can do. Well, the Reserve Bank raised interest

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<v Speaker 2>rates today for the fourth time this year and for

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<v Speaker 2>the 15th time since the Albanese Labor government came to power.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's Treasurer Jim Chalmers.

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<v Speaker 8>This is a full-blown cost-of-living crisis and now interest rate

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<v Speaker 8>rises are about to be part of the pain.

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<v Speaker 2>That, of course, was Jim Chalmers back in 2022 when

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Morrison was Prime Minister and Jim Chalmers enjoyed the

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<v Speaker 2>comfort of opinion without the discomfort of responsibility. Here's some

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<v Speaker 2>more of Jim Chalmers back in the day.

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<v Speaker 8>If only you could pay your mortgage with Scott Morrison's excuses.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice line.

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<v Speaker 2>If you could pay your mortgage with Scott Morrison's excuses, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you could probably afford several mortgages in a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>months in the Maldives using the excuses Jim Chalmers used

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<v Speaker 2>is now producing for rate rises on his watch. Government

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<v Speaker 2>spending at near record levels causing inflation?

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<v Speaker 1>Don't be silly. Here he was today.

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<v Speaker 8>A main driver of inflation in our economy and indeed

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<v Speaker 8>around the world is the war in the Middle East.

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<v Speaker 8>Australians are paying a very hefty price for that war

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<v Speaker 8>in the Middle East and today that price became a

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<v Speaker 8>bit steeper.

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<v Speaker 2>Just in case you missed the memo about this rate

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<v Speaker 2>rise having nothing to do with Labor's excessive spending and

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<v Speaker 2>everything to do with events overseas, events for which the

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<v Speaker 2>Albanese government could not possibly be held responsible, here's some

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<v Speaker 2>more of Jim Chalmers today.

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<v Speaker 8>Made worse by the war in the Middle East. The

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<v Speaker 8>war in the Middle East turbocharged by a war on

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<v Speaker 8>the other side of the world. Australians are paying a

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<v Speaker 8>very hefty price for that war in the Middle East.

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<v Speaker 8>Re-escalation of... The war in the Middle East, a big

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<v Speaker 8>driver of that is the war in the Middle East,

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<v Speaker 8>prolonged war in the Middle East. A main driver of

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<v Speaker 8>inflation in our economy and indeed around the world is

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<v Speaker 8>the war in the Middle East, re-escalation of the war

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<v Speaker 8>in the Middle East, war in the Middle East, re-escalation

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<v Speaker 8>of the war.

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<v Speaker 2>In a 20-minute press conference, Jim Chalmers mentioned the war

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<v Speaker 2>in Iran 10 times. Jim Chalmers blamed Australia's interest rate

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<v Speaker 2>rise on the Iranian war so many times, I imagine

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<v Speaker 2>even the Ayatollah was starting to feel a little defensive.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's Jim Chalmers back in 2022 when rates rose under

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<v Speaker 2>the coalition government.

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<v Speaker 8>This Prime Minister has an excuse for everything and a

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<v Speaker 8>plan for nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's Jim Chalmers with rates rising on his watch today.

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<v Speaker 8>The Reserve Bank statement makes it really clear that we

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<v Speaker 8>have an inflation challenge in our economy which is made

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<v Speaker 8>worse by the war in the Middle East. The statement

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<v Speaker 8>makes it abundantly clear that one of the main drivers

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<v Speaker 8>of inflation in our economy is a conflict on the

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<v Speaker 8>other side of the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Like he said back in 2022, an excuse for everything.

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<v Speaker 2>But then came an awkward interruption to the excuse factory.

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<v Speaker 2>Just minutes after Chalmers blamed Trump for all his woes,

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<v Speaker 2>the RBA Governor Michelle Bullock indicated the war in Iran

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<v Speaker 2>was a factor, but she said the biggest problems were

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<v Speaker 2>domestic pressures, low productivity and higher than expected spending.

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<v Speaker 9>Inflation is too high and has been driven by domestic

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<v Speaker 9>capacity pressures. The inflation impulse from the Middle East conflict

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<v Speaker 9>is in addition to this. Domestic spending and investment have

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<v Speaker 9>been stronger than expected.

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<v Speaker 1>So there it is. The war matters.

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<v Speaker 2>But according to the Reserve Bank, it's in addition to

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<v Speaker 2>the domestic inflationary pressures, which is a slightly inconvenient phrase

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<v Speaker 2>when the Treasurer has just spent 20 minutes explaining why

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<v Speaker 2>Australians should look exclusively overseas for someone else to blame.

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<v Speaker 1>But Michelle Bullock went a little further.

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<v Speaker 2>She said interest rates couldn't come down while demand continued

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<v Speaker 2>to outstrip supply within the economy, and so the onus

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<v Speaker 2>was on the government, I'll use her words here, to

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<v Speaker 2>grease the wheels of the economy by easing regulations to

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<v Speaker 2>boost productivity.

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<v Speaker 1>Grease the wheels.

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<v Speaker 2>That sounds like a pretty reasonable economic prescription. The only

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<v Speaker 2>problem is that this government, with its renewable fantasies and

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<v Speaker 2>its love of the public service, seems rather more interested

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<v Speaker 2>in putting sticks in the spokes. Well, joining me now

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<v Speaker 2>for more on today's rate rise is Shadow Energy and

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<v Speaker 2>Emissions Reduction Minister Dan Tehan.

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<v Speaker 1>Dan, welcome to the program.

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<v Speaker 2>Just imagine with me for a moment that we had

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<v Speaker 2>a government in Canberra that did take responsibility for the

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<v Speaker 2>state of the economy. What would such a government be

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<v Speaker 2>doing to get inflation under control?

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<v Speaker 10>Well, the first thing they'd be doing is they'd be

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<v Speaker 10>cutting spending. And as we know, Treasurer Jim Chalmers has

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<v Speaker 10>an addiction to spending like he has an addiction to spin.

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<v Speaker 10>And it's incredible seeing your introduction there, James, because it

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<v Speaker 10>just highlights the absolute hypocrisy.

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<v Speaker 6>Of Jim Chalmers.

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<v Speaker 10>And now that he is the Treasurer, the fact that

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<v Speaker 10>he's got no idea about what he's doing. I mean,

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<v Speaker 10>two things he needs to do, stop the spending and

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<v Speaker 10>get productivity going. And, you know, as Michelle Bullock said,

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<v Speaker 10>you know, grease the wheels. Well, the problem is I

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<v Speaker 10>think grease is still a fossil fuel, so they're probably

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<v Speaker 10>allergic to using it. So that's why we're not doing

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<v Speaker 10>anything on productivity. I mean, it is, it's a farce

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<v Speaker 10>and the sad reality is, households are going to pay

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<v Speaker 10>the bill and they're paying an ever-increasing bill and they're

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<v Speaker 10>looking at the government just saying, no plan, no idea,

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<v Speaker 10>and please, please stop hurting us like you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I wanted to ask you about how you think

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<v Speaker 2>this plays with the public. I mean, we're all aware

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<v Speaker 2>there's a war in the Middle East and we all

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<v Speaker 2>are aware that it's putting huge pressure on the economy,

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<v Speaker 2>including jacking up inflation. So we're not denying that's a

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<v Speaker 2>part of it. But the fact Chalmers, as I said,

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned it 10 times in just 20 minutes. Clearly, that's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing he wants people to be focusing on. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you think Australians will will swallow that?

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<v Speaker 6>I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 10>And I think Australians are really starting to wake up

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<v Speaker 10>to the fact that we've got higher debt and it's

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<v Speaker 10>ever-increasing debt, both at the state level and at the

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<v Speaker 10>federal level. They know that the government is spending and

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<v Speaker 10>can't stop spending. And they're not stupid. So they understand, sure,

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<v Speaker 10>as you said, the war has played a part of this.

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<v Speaker 6>There's no question about it. But I would say also.

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<v Speaker 10>If Chris Bowen had done his job and we'd had

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<v Speaker 10>more oil exploration and more oil.

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<v Speaker 6>Production, we mightn't be as reliant as.

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<v Speaker 10>We are on overseas oil because that's hurting us. There's

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<v Speaker 10>no question about that. But everyone knows that if you're

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<v Speaker 10>going to... do anything about inflation. You've got to cut

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<v Speaker 10>your spending. And the data out over the last few days,

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<v Speaker 10>which shows we've basically got the highest spending government in

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<v Speaker 10>about 30 years and the highest taxing government in about

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<v Speaker 10>30 years, just shows that this government just cannot deal

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<v Speaker 10>with inflation. I think the Australian people are absolutely awake

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<v Speaker 10>to that.

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<v Speaker 2>Dantien, you can't be the highest spending government if you're

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<v Speaker 2>not also the highest taxing government.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, those two things go together.

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<v Speaker 2>To emphasise just how tough things are under Labor, as

0:13:15.780 --> 0:13:17.560
<v Speaker 2>if we needed more evidence, have a look at the

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.109
<v Speaker 2>latest Demography International Housing Affordability Report, which has listed the

0:13:22.150 --> 0:13:25.910
<v Speaker 2>world's 10 least affordable cities. We'll put them up on

0:13:26.010 --> 0:13:29.650
<v Speaker 2>screen for viewers here. Four of the 10 least affordable

0:13:29.690 --> 0:13:33.130
<v Speaker 2>cities in the world... Our Australian city, Sydney, was ranked

0:13:33.309 --> 0:13:36.970
<v Speaker 2>second least affordable, coming just shy of Hong Kong with

0:13:37.010 --> 0:13:39.850
<v Speaker 2>a score of 14, meaning the average house price in

0:13:39.929 --> 0:13:40.410
<v Speaker 2>Sydney is 14 times.

0:13:42.300 --> 0:13:46.209
<v Speaker 2>The median household income. Adelaide came in as fourth least affordable,

0:13:46.570 --> 0:13:50.150
<v Speaker 2>Brisbane eighth, Melbourne ninth. And that's despite the housing market

0:13:50.190 --> 0:13:52.689
<v Speaker 2>crash we saw thanks to Labor's budget changes in May.

0:13:53.550 --> 0:13:56.990
<v Speaker 2>I can understand why house prices are sky high, say

0:13:57.030 --> 0:14:00.729
<v Speaker 2>on islands like Hong Kong, Singapore, but for a country

0:14:00.770 --> 0:14:03.979
<v Speaker 2>like ours to have the highest housing prices in the

0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 2>world is just nuts.

0:14:06.830 --> 0:14:10.790
<v Speaker 10>It is nuts and it once again shows a complete failure.

0:14:11.050 --> 0:14:14.150
<v Speaker 10>And here it's at all levels of government, especially at

0:14:14.190 --> 0:14:17.010
<v Speaker 10>the state government level, to be not releasing the land

0:14:17.450 --> 0:14:21.480
<v Speaker 10>and to literally cut some of these building codes. But

0:14:21.500 --> 0:14:24.980
<v Speaker 10>it's getting worse because you will have seen the Reserve

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 10>Bank Governor in the note that came out today also

0:14:27.860 --> 0:14:33.470
<v Speaker 10>saying that housing loans have plummeted. So the sad reality

0:14:33.650 --> 0:14:36.430
<v Speaker 10>is that housing prices are high, even though we've got

0:14:36.490 --> 0:14:39.750
<v Speaker 10>so much land. But we're also seeing because of government

0:14:39.790 --> 0:14:43.390
<v Speaker 10>policy and mainly their taxes in the budget, that all

0:14:43.430 --> 0:14:46.580
<v Speaker 10>of a sudden housing loans have fallen through the floor.

0:14:46.900 --> 0:14:50.970
<v Speaker 10>So especially first homeowners. and not getting access to the

0:14:51.030 --> 0:14:53.810
<v Speaker 10>loans they need to get into the market. It's a

0:14:53.870 --> 0:14:58.210
<v Speaker 10>complete catastrophe. And I'll be very interested to see what

0:14:58.490 --> 0:15:02.070
<v Speaker 10>Claire O'Neill's got to say tomorrow about this, because she's

0:15:02.130 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 10>been saying this was all about getting young Australians into

0:15:05.390 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 10>a home. Well, the Reserve Bank data shows that clearly

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 10>that is not happening.

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Dan, climate change and energy minister Chris Bowen has come

0:15:14.460 --> 0:15:17.910
<v Speaker 2>out swinging against your new energy policy. He's told the

0:15:17.970 --> 0:15:21.530
<v Speaker 2>Australian newspaper that your plan is a coal keeper crusade

0:15:21.630 --> 0:15:26.110
<v Speaker 2>created by deniers and delayers. Tell you what, if alliteration

0:15:26.150 --> 0:15:28.700
<v Speaker 2>could power the grid, Chris Bowen would be a raging success.

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.580
<v Speaker 2>He claims renewables are actually making our grid more reliable

0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>because they've been filling the gaps left by ageing, unreliable

0:15:36.140 --> 0:15:39.620
<v Speaker 2>coal-fired power stations, which he says break down every single day.

0:15:40.210 --> 0:15:43.090
<v Speaker 2>And it's actually these breakdowns that are spiking prices, not

0:15:43.130 --> 0:15:45.190
<v Speaker 2>the intermittency of renewables.

0:15:46.210 --> 0:15:46.650
<v Speaker 1>Is he right?

0:15:48.130 --> 0:15:49.250
<v Speaker 6>No, he's not right.

0:15:49.430 --> 0:15:54.670
<v Speaker 10>And everything with Chris Bowen is completely and utterly laughable.

0:15:54.730 --> 0:16:00.020
<v Speaker 10>He's saying that coal, baseload power, is unreliable. Well, you know,

0:16:00.180 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 10>we all rooftop solar, large-scale wind, large-scale solar. They have

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.710
<v Speaker 10>its part. But, you know, what happens when the sun's

0:16:09.750 --> 0:16:12.450
<v Speaker 10>not shining and the wind's not blowing? They're not doing

0:16:12.510 --> 0:16:16.930
<v Speaker 10>anything either. And the fact is that coal's their 24-hour

0:16:17.010 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 10>day doing its role. And, sure, there has to be

0:16:20.180 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 10>maintenance and there's got to be repair of.

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 6>of certain parts and everything like that, we all get that.

0:16:25.620 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 10>But if it's not there, then we've got real problems.

0:16:29.180 --> 0:16:32.370
<v Speaker 10>And the proof of this is in what state governments

0:16:32.450 --> 0:16:35.610
<v Speaker 10>are doing. Labor state governments in New South Wales and

0:16:35.630 --> 0:16:38.830
<v Speaker 10>Victoria are paying to keep coal.

0:16:39.150 --> 0:16:39.490
<v Speaker 6>Why?

0:16:39.510 --> 0:16:42.270
<v Speaker 10>Because they need it for reliability and they need it

0:16:42.310 --> 0:16:43.150
<v Speaker 10>for affordability.

0:16:43.370 --> 0:16:46.050
<v Speaker 6>And that's why our policy is so sensible.

0:16:46.070 --> 0:16:48.630
<v Speaker 10>And I've got to say, James, if Chris Bowen's out

0:16:48.690 --> 0:16:52.630
<v Speaker 10>criticising our policy, I know that we've done something right.

0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 10>Because if he was agreeing with it, I'd be saying,

0:16:55.860 --> 0:16:58.000
<v Speaker 10>we've made a few errors here. But the fact that

0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.300
<v Speaker 10>he's out saying... This is not good policy. I'm wearing

0:17:01.340 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 10>that as a badge of honour. We've done the right

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.500
<v Speaker 10>thing and we're going to keep going and keep selling it.

0:17:05.740 --> 0:17:09.109
<v Speaker 6>Just to remind your viewers, net zero goes.

0:17:09.450 --> 0:17:13.690
<v Speaker 10>We're going to absolutely say to the regulators, affordability has

0:17:13.730 --> 0:17:16.560
<v Speaker 10>to be front and centre of what you do and

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:21.240
<v Speaker 10>that's going to drive everything about our energy policy is affordability,

0:17:21.300 --> 0:17:22.740
<v Speaker 10>reliability and security.

0:17:23.460 --> 0:17:26.359
<v Speaker 2>If Chris Bowen doesn't like it, it's a good idea.

0:17:26.420 --> 0:17:30.340
<v Speaker 2>I can't fault that logic, Dan. That's perfect. Another one

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 2>of Labor's green energy brainwaves is threatening to hike the

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.639
<v Speaker 2>price of flights. The government has mandated that biofuels have

0:17:37.670 --> 0:17:40.730
<v Speaker 2>to be blended into Australia's aviation fuel supplies. The problem,

0:17:40.770 --> 0:17:44.510
<v Speaker 2>of course, is biofuels cost up to five times more

0:17:44.550 --> 0:17:47.670
<v Speaker 2>than traditional jet fuel. So what do you reckon Qantas

0:17:47.810 --> 0:17:50.410
<v Speaker 2>and Virgin are thinking about doing? Will they do what

0:17:50.609 --> 0:17:52.280
<v Speaker 2>any of us would do if we were running businesses?

0:17:52.820 --> 0:17:55.460
<v Speaker 2>They're considering adding a fuel levy to the price of

0:17:55.740 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 2>airline tickets. Dan, this is more bad news for Australians.

0:18:00.859 --> 0:18:01.379
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.790
<v Speaker 6>This is a carbon tax on your air ticket. That's

0:18:05.830 --> 0:18:07.129
<v Speaker 6>what it is, pure and simple.

0:18:07.210 --> 0:18:09.830
<v Speaker 10>So In a cost of living crisis, when we've just

0:18:09.910 --> 0:18:14.260
<v Speaker 10>had another interest rate rise, what's the government thinking of doing?

0:18:14.460 --> 0:18:17.540
<v Speaker 6>Jacking up the price of an airline ticket.

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.100
<v Speaker 10>So when you want to fly and see your loved

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.100
<v Speaker 10>ones for Christmas, you're going to pay more, thanks to

0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.540
<v Speaker 10>Chris Bowen and Anthony Albanese. I mean, they just cannot

0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.250
<v Speaker 10>stop these green taxes. And that's why we've said we'll

0:18:29.290 --> 0:18:31.990
<v Speaker 10>take a chainsaw to them, every single one of them,

0:18:32.090 --> 0:18:35.669
<v Speaker 10>because all it does is put costs into your economy

0:18:36.130 --> 0:18:39.970
<v Speaker 10>and make everything more expensive. And you think of the

0:18:40.340 --> 0:18:44.219
<v Speaker 10>food that's freighted around this country, that'll go up as

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:48.619
<v Speaker 10>a result of this, because all their green ideology comes

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 10>with a cost.

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.760
<v Speaker 6>And this is just another example of it. And they.

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.859
<v Speaker 10>They just won't stop until they've made people poorer and

0:18:57.980 --> 0:18:59.860
<v Speaker 10>poorer and poorer, sadly.

0:19:00.660 --> 0:19:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Dan Tehan, you're obviously very smart and very intelligent, but

0:19:03.740 --> 0:19:05.639
<v Speaker 2>it occurs to me you actually don't need to be

0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.180
<v Speaker 2>that smart to be the opposition energy minister. You just

0:19:09.340 --> 0:19:11.459
<v Speaker 2>make up your policies by looking at what Chris Bowen's

0:19:11.500 --> 0:19:13.680
<v Speaker 2>doing and do the exact opposite, right?

0:19:15.090 --> 0:19:18.010
<v Speaker 6>Well, I've got to say, James, I think you're onto something.

0:19:18.050 --> 0:19:20.210
<v Speaker 10>You know, the fact that he's come out and criticised

0:19:20.310 --> 0:19:22.609
<v Speaker 10>our policy, I literally do take that as a badge

0:19:22.650 --> 0:19:23.090
<v Speaker 10>of honour.

0:19:23.380 --> 0:19:24.379
<v Speaker 1>I think if we just.

0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.260
<v Speaker 10>Keep doing the opposite to what he's doing, we're going

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.760
<v Speaker 10>to go well. I'll tell you what we won't do.

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.820
<v Speaker 10>We won't spend $ 150 million sending activists and bureaucrats and

0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:35.540
<v Speaker 10>politicians to Fiji and.

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 6>To Bulu either.

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.600
<v Speaker 10>So there's another example of doing the complete opposite to

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 10>what Chris Bowen's doing, because that's next week.

0:19:43.580 --> 0:19:46.869
<v Speaker 6>During a cost of living crisis, another interest rate rise.

0:19:47.330 --> 0:19:48.410
<v Speaker 6>Guess where Chris.

0:19:48.250 --> 0:19:51.100
<v Speaker 10>Is going with all these activists? going to Fiji and

0:19:51.140 --> 0:19:55.650
<v Speaker 10>Tuvalu to get away from it. Australians will struggle with

0:19:55.750 --> 0:19:59.190
<v Speaker 10>another cost to their household balance sheet.

0:19:59.540 --> 0:20:01.580
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very good point. Dan Tehan, always a delight to

0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.320
<v Speaker 2>catch up. Thanks so much for joining me tonight. All right,

0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.940
<v Speaker 2>after the break, will our over-reliance on Chinese batteries come

0:20:08.020 --> 0:20:11.699
<v Speaker 2>back to bite us? And OpenAI says sorry for breaking

0:20:11.740 --> 0:20:14.860
<v Speaker 2>into Medicare, so should we kiss and make up? Peter

0:20:14.900 --> 0:20:22.109
<v Speaker 2>Jennings will answer those questions after the break. The founder

0:20:22.130 --> 0:20:25.190
<v Speaker 2>of Australian battery startup, Sakona, has warned the Albanese government

0:20:25.210 --> 0:20:29.830
<v Speaker 2>that Australia's over-reliance on cheap Chinese batteries poses a serious

0:20:29.910 --> 0:20:33.450
<v Speaker 2>risk to our national sovereignty. This comes after previous warnings

0:20:33.490 --> 0:20:38.120
<v Speaker 2>that Chinese batteries could potentially be booby-trapped with software capable

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.440
<v Speaker 2>of making them explode, rather like the pages Israel turned

0:20:41.460 --> 0:20:45.840
<v Speaker 2>into disguised bombs to take out Hezbollah operatives. So that's

0:20:46.060 --> 0:20:48.639
<v Speaker 2>one problem, but there's another threat, and this one doesn't

0:20:48.700 --> 0:20:52.820
<v Speaker 2>require anyone to press a button. Sukona founder Christian Jordan

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.910
<v Speaker 2>says that if Australia ever found itself at war with China,

0:20:56.490 --> 0:20:59.570
<v Speaker 2>Beijing could cripple us by simply cutting off the supply

0:20:59.609 --> 0:21:02.889
<v Speaker 2>of batteries. Because if Chinese batteries are powering everything from

0:21:02.950 --> 0:21:06.130
<v Speaker 2>our cars to our energy grid, and China suddenly decides

0:21:06.230 --> 0:21:09.660
<v Speaker 2>it's no longer interested in supplying them, well, then eventually

0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Australia just, you know, kind of stops. And this is

0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.580
<v Speaker 2>the extraordinary vulnerability created when a country becomes so dependent

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.840
<v Speaker 2>on on a foreign power for critical infrastructure. Our entire

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.680
<v Speaker 2>way of life rests on the goodwill of a communist

0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.930
<v Speaker 2>foreign power. Perhaps the most remarkable part of the renewable

0:21:29.130 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>energy transition is this very point. Our government is assuring

0:21:32.900 --> 0:21:35.879
<v Speaker 2>us that they're making us more secure by increasing our

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.440
<v Speaker 2>dependence on a foreign adversary. Joining me now is News24

0:21:39.660 --> 0:21:41.400
<v Speaker 2>defence analyst Peter Jennings.

0:21:42.060 --> 0:21:44.980
<v Speaker 1>Peter, welcome to the program. How real is this threat

0:21:45.510 --> 0:21:46.770
<v Speaker 1>and what should we be doing about it?

0:21:47.130 --> 0:21:49.230
<v Speaker 4>So, James, first, great to be here in Sydney with you.

0:21:50.030 --> 0:21:53.870
<v Speaker 4>This is a real threat. By changing the electricity grid

0:21:53.950 --> 0:21:58.540
<v Speaker 4>to much more dependence on renewables and batteries... What's happening

0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 4>is that there are thousands of new attack vectors, as

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.720
<v Speaker 4>the cyber specialists call them, where the grid can be

0:22:06.780 --> 0:22:11.800
<v Speaker 4>hacked effectively. And because most of those components come from China,

0:22:12.570 --> 0:22:14.480
<v Speaker 4>what that means is that we're giving the Chinese the

0:22:14.510 --> 0:22:18.310
<v Speaker 4>capacity to hack into our system, overload the grid. It

0:22:18.369 --> 0:22:21.909
<v Speaker 4>becomes a very much more sensitive piece of critical infrastructure

0:22:21.930 --> 0:22:24.830
<v Speaker 4>when you've got thousands and thousands of inputs. So we

0:22:24.850 --> 0:22:27.740
<v Speaker 4>should be taking it seriously. And I think the pace

0:22:28.100 --> 0:22:32.220
<v Speaker 4>of the so-called green energy revolution means that cyber security

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.960
<v Speaker 4>is not keeping up. And so there's a whole new

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.179
<v Speaker 4>vulnerability which is being applied to a critical part of

0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:39.200
<v Speaker 4>Australian infrastructure.

0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.070
<v Speaker 2>I hear warnings like this and I suppose my initial

0:22:42.109 --> 0:22:45.010
<v Speaker 2>reaction is we're too far down the path now to

0:22:45.070 --> 0:22:48.389
<v Speaker 2>do anything. I mean, as you said, these Chinese pieces

0:22:48.410 --> 0:22:52.030
<v Speaker 2>of infrastructure are right through the grid now. Is it

0:22:52.109 --> 0:22:54.179
<v Speaker 2>too late to go back? And if we were to

0:22:54.300 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 2>try and undo all of this, where would we even start?

0:22:57.340 --> 0:23:00.380
<v Speaker 4>It's never too late to try and strengthen national security,

0:23:00.460 --> 0:23:02.680
<v Speaker 4>I guess is my line. The first thing that I

0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:04.770
<v Speaker 4>think we have to do is work out, can we

0:23:04.830 --> 0:23:09.270
<v Speaker 4>put technical overlays over the ability of foreign countries to

0:23:09.330 --> 0:23:15.709
<v Speaker 4>remotely access these batteries and other grid components? you know,

0:23:15.750 --> 0:23:18.090
<v Speaker 4>they're often sold as actually being a plus that a

0:23:18.130 --> 0:23:22.169
<v Speaker 4>country can remotely hack in to alter your settings and

0:23:22.230 --> 0:23:24.850
<v Speaker 4>things of that nature. So we can potentially put some

0:23:24.890 --> 0:23:28.110
<v Speaker 4>sort of overlay on that. But you make a good point.

0:23:28.130 --> 0:23:31.660
<v Speaker 4>We've gone so far and so fast down this particular track,

0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.160
<v Speaker 4>it is going to take a remedial effort to bring

0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:36.659
<v Speaker 4>it back. And that means a lot more spending on

0:23:36.700 --> 0:23:37.540
<v Speaker 4>cyber security.

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.720
<v Speaker 2>If electric batteries are now so ubiquitous through everything, should

0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:42.919
<v Speaker 2>we be manufacturing our own?

0:23:44.180 --> 0:23:47.330
<v Speaker 4>We should, or we should certainly be manufacturing the components

0:23:47.369 --> 0:23:50.149
<v Speaker 4>that connect these things to the grid. You know, in

0:23:50.190 --> 0:23:52.730
<v Speaker 4>some respects, I think we're always going to be reliant

0:23:52.910 --> 0:23:55.650
<v Speaker 4>on China for the cheap supplies of lithium and things

0:23:55.710 --> 0:23:58.209
<v Speaker 4>of that nature. But we can at least provide the

0:23:58.230 --> 0:24:02.010
<v Speaker 4>sort of technical overlay of protection. What I think has

0:24:02.050 --> 0:24:05.250
<v Speaker 4>happened here is that so many companies are now involved

0:24:05.350 --> 0:24:10.140
<v Speaker 4>in providing into this bonanza of solar and wind. But

0:24:10.380 --> 0:24:12.280
<v Speaker 4>a lot of them are small and they don't really

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.369
<v Speaker 4>have the capacity to manage their own cyber security. So

0:24:15.410 --> 0:24:17.709
<v Speaker 4>there are things that can be done, but we are

0:24:17.810 --> 0:24:20.670
<v Speaker 4>certainly coming from behind in terms of our security situation

0:24:20.710 --> 0:24:21.070
<v Speaker 4>right now.

0:24:21.090 --> 0:24:21.810
<v Speaker 6>All right.

0:24:21.830 --> 0:24:25.050
<v Speaker 2>Well, speaking of defence, Deputy PM and Defence Minister Richard

0:24:25.090 --> 0:24:29.210
<v Speaker 2>Miles is facing bipartisan backlash after appearing to mock generals

0:24:29.290 --> 0:24:32.189
<v Speaker 2>who were stationed at the historic Victoria barracks in Sydney,

0:24:32.210 --> 0:24:35.419
<v Speaker 2>which his government wants to sell. Here he was making

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 2>some inflammatory comments on News 24.

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 7>It is not my priority for Defence to be a

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:44.389
<v Speaker 7>heritage organisation. It's not my priority to see Defence manage

0:24:44.430 --> 0:24:47.129
<v Speaker 7>the oldest wine cellar in Australia. It's nice that it's

0:24:47.170 --> 0:24:49.429
<v Speaker 7>at Victoria Barracks, Sydney, but it's not core interest. So

0:24:49.470 --> 0:24:51.240
<v Speaker 7>to put this in the hands of the diggers is

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:54.619
<v Speaker 7>actually quite wrong. You know, there are a few former

0:24:54.660 --> 0:24:58.480
<v Speaker 7>generals who liked hanging out there who are lamenting this.

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:01.340
<v Speaker 1>Wow, shots fired.

0:25:01.380 --> 0:25:04.419
<v Speaker 2>Liberal Senator Jess Collins, who's chairing an upper house inquiry

0:25:04.460 --> 0:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>into Labor's proposed divestment of 67 military sites nationwide, says

0:25:09.660 --> 0:25:12.409
<v Speaker 2>the defence minister is punching down on those he's supposed

0:25:12.430 --> 0:25:15.250
<v Speaker 2>to be leading and that his position is now untenable.

0:25:15.770 --> 0:25:18.770
<v Speaker 2>And even New South Wales Labor MP Greg Warren slammed

0:25:18.810 --> 0:25:24.110
<v Speaker 2>Miles as arrogant, calling the remarks a disrespectful and absurd response...

0:25:24.130 --> 0:25:27.850
<v Speaker 2>that displays a serious lack of understanding. Peter, of all

0:25:27.869 --> 0:25:31.390
<v Speaker 2>the things that could bring the Defence Minister into disrepute

0:25:31.550 --> 0:25:34.510
<v Speaker 2>with Diggers, this was probably not the one I had

0:25:34.570 --> 0:25:35.170
<v Speaker 2>in mind.

0:25:35.350 --> 0:25:37.859
<v Speaker 4>No, it was very sulky stuff, and I have to

0:25:37.890 --> 0:25:40.680
<v Speaker 4>say the last refuge of the scoundrel for a guy

0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 4>that likes to be in the front end of the

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:47.620
<v Speaker 4>VIP flights that he takes very regularly from his electorate. Look,

0:25:47.660 --> 0:25:49.180
<v Speaker 4>there's a couple of points which I think are really

0:25:49.220 --> 0:25:52.270
<v Speaker 4>worth making here. The first is... There is no big

0:25:52.330 --> 0:25:55.690
<v Speaker 4>money that can be made to be put back into

0:25:55.730 --> 0:25:59.510
<v Speaker 4>defence by selling these sorts of properties. Victoria Barracks is

0:25:59.690 --> 0:26:03.190
<v Speaker 4>always going to be heritage listed. At best, it might

0:26:03.260 --> 0:26:05.540
<v Speaker 4>remove into the ownership of New South Wales and be

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 4>turned into a museum, something of that nature. No money

0:26:08.859 --> 0:26:11.500
<v Speaker 4>for defence is going to come from that. And what

0:26:11.540 --> 0:26:13.240
<v Speaker 4>is going to happen to the military is that they're

0:26:13.260 --> 0:26:16.359
<v Speaker 4>going to be moved into a defence plaza, it's called,

0:26:16.420 --> 0:26:20.860
<v Speaker 4>in Pitt Street, which is pretty unimpressive accommodation. The other

0:26:20.900 --> 0:26:23.700
<v Speaker 4>thing is Victoria Barracks can actually act because of parade

0:26:23.740 --> 0:26:26.840
<v Speaker 4>grounds as a site where helicopters can go if there's

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:31.020
<v Speaker 4>a counter-terrorism operation required in the city. And I think

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:33.750
<v Speaker 4>Richard Miles, you know, frankly, in putting out this policy,

0:26:33.810 --> 0:26:37.230
<v Speaker 4>he didn't consult widely enough. He didn't think deeply enough.

0:26:37.869 --> 0:26:39.930
<v Speaker 4>The other group of people that are complaining to him

0:26:40.070 --> 0:26:42.750
<v Speaker 4>are his own backbenchers because they don't want to see

0:26:42.790 --> 0:26:46.139
<v Speaker 4>these properties being sold off either. So he's created a

0:26:46.170 --> 0:26:49.710
<v Speaker 4>horrible mistake for himself. And to sound as arrogant and

0:26:49.750 --> 0:26:52.250
<v Speaker 4>out of touch as he did and so unconcerned with

0:26:52.290 --> 0:26:54.410
<v Speaker 4>what defence people are thinking, I think that's a very

0:26:54.450 --> 0:26:55.830
<v Speaker 4>bad mark for a defence minister.

0:26:56.150 --> 0:26:56.450
<v Speaker 1>Indeed.

0:26:56.470 --> 0:27:00.370
<v Speaker 2>All right, I want to ask you about OpenAI. They've

0:27:00.410 --> 0:27:03.490
<v Speaker 2>apologised after one of their AI agents went rogue and

0:27:03.550 --> 0:27:07.830
<v Speaker 2>hacked into Australian government websites in a lengthy blog post

0:27:07.869 --> 0:27:12.669
<v Speaker 2>which they entitled Rebuilding Trust with Australians. They said they

0:27:12.710 --> 0:27:15.369
<v Speaker 2>should have handled their response to this better and they

0:27:15.410 --> 0:27:19.010
<v Speaker 2>announced they will fly their chief strategy officer to Australia

0:27:19.030 --> 0:27:22.389
<v Speaker 2>to appear before the Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 2>that's sitting on October 6. Is this apology and an

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.600
<v Speaker 2>in-person briefing sufficient?

0:27:30.700 --> 0:27:32.879
<v Speaker 4>Look, I think it's probably the right steps for the

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.300
<v Speaker 4>company to take. They clearly made a mistake here. They

0:27:36.580 --> 0:27:40.960
<v Speaker 4>unleashed one of their agent's out onto the internet, into

0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:43.660
<v Speaker 4>the wild, you might say, without really having thought enough

0:27:43.740 --> 0:27:48.419
<v Speaker 4>about how to protect the systems that they were moving into.

0:27:49.540 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 4>So I think looking a bit apologetic is the right

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:54.300
<v Speaker 4>thing to do. The other thing that I think all

0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:56.359
<v Speaker 4>of these companies should be worried about, James, is that

0:27:56.420 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 4>just as we're actually becoming more dependent on AI, people

0:27:59.780 --> 0:28:01.939
<v Speaker 4>are becoming more suspicious about it. You know, what does

0:28:01.980 --> 0:28:03.700
<v Speaker 4>it mean for me? What will it mean for my job?

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.220
<v Speaker 4>Those sorts of things. So the companies need to do

0:28:06.270 --> 0:28:09.870
<v Speaker 4>a better job of engaging And I think rather than

0:28:09.930 --> 0:28:12.139
<v Speaker 4>just beating them up in committees, what we should be

0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.179
<v Speaker 4>doing is trying to find intelligent ways to talk to

0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 4>them to see if we can cooperate.

0:28:16.100 --> 0:28:18.100
<v Speaker 2>Well, at the same time as they're doing a mea

0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:21.940
<v Speaker 2>culpa to the Australian government, OpenAI has just announced they

0:28:22.070 --> 0:28:25.650
<v Speaker 2>won't be releasing their latest artificial intelligence model. It's called

0:28:25.990 --> 0:28:31.470
<v Speaker 2>ChatGPT Astra 6.1 after internal testing found it didn't meet requirements.

0:28:31.910 --> 0:28:35.070
<v Speaker 2>Safety requirements. Now, this is what they have said specifically.

0:28:35.090 --> 0:28:37.970
<v Speaker 2>It didn't quite meet the bar in terms of staying

0:28:38.070 --> 0:28:42.620
<v Speaker 2>within scope and authorisation, which I suppose, in other words,

0:28:42.670 --> 0:28:43.860
<v Speaker 2>means it went rogue.

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:46.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you want your chat GPTs to be staying in scope,

0:28:46.940 --> 0:28:49.140
<v Speaker 4>I think would be my advice there. So they'll release

0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 4>chat GPT 6.2 in a few months' time and that

0:28:51.700 --> 0:28:54.380
<v Speaker 4>will be so much better. You know, the demand for

0:28:54.420 --> 0:28:57.660
<v Speaker 4>these things remains great. People want them. They want to

0:28:57.680 --> 0:28:59.380
<v Speaker 4>be able to talk to Claude. They want to be

0:28:59.460 --> 0:29:03.990
<v Speaker 4>able to have these sorts of interactions. this cannot be stopped, James,

0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:07.440
<v Speaker 4>but we need more intelligent, more thoughtful approaches, both on

0:29:07.460 --> 0:29:10.140
<v Speaker 4>the part of the private sector and governments, to make

0:29:10.180 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 4>sure that it can be managed without crazy things happening.

0:29:12.900 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, very good point.

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:15.980
<v Speaker 1>Peter Jennings, always a joy to catch up. Thanks so

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:16.980
<v Speaker 1>much for joining me on the desk.

0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:17.340
<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

0:29:17.940 --> 0:29:20.180
<v Speaker 2>All right, coming up after the break, we head to

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:23.360
<v Speaker 2>the USA, where President Trump has spoken out over the

0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:27.100
<v Speaker 2>foiled UK terrorist plot. And what did Donald Trump show

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.540
<v Speaker 2>the Chinese president to make him laugh so much?

0:29:29.940 --> 0:29:31.420
<v Speaker 1>That's up next with Sean Spicer.

0:29:35.550 --> 0:29:38.670
<v Speaker 2>Well, five men arrested yesterday over a suspected bomb plot

0:29:38.730 --> 0:29:41.850
<v Speaker 2>at a UK military base have been released on bail,

0:29:41.890 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>which is incredibly strange. I mean, post a funky comment

0:29:45.820 --> 0:29:48.450
<v Speaker 2>on social media and the British police are inclined to

0:29:48.540 --> 0:29:50.500
<v Speaker 2>lock you up and lose the key. Get caught in

0:29:50.540 --> 0:29:53.580
<v Speaker 2>what looks like a plan to explode bombs on a

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:56.700
<v Speaker 2>military base used by American planes for missions against Iran

0:29:56.740 --> 0:29:59.570
<v Speaker 2>and you're out on bail the next day. Here's the

0:29:59.590 --> 0:30:02.650
<v Speaker 2>UK's head of counter-terrorism policing, Lawrence Taylor.

0:30:03.310 --> 0:30:06.950
<v Speaker 11>The five men who were arrested are being released on

0:30:06.990 --> 0:30:11.770
<v Speaker 11>police bail this afternoon. To be very clear, this does

0:30:11.810 --> 0:30:15.810
<v Speaker 11>not mean that the investigation is over. They are subject

0:30:15.870 --> 0:30:19.590
<v Speaker 11>to stringent conditions on their movement and contact with others.

0:30:20.490 --> 0:30:22.890
<v Speaker 1>And then, extraordinarily, he added this.

0:30:23.810 --> 0:30:27.610
<v Speaker 11>Be assured, we are considering this from every possible angle.

0:30:28.710 --> 0:30:34.500
<v Speaker 11>including that this may be actively committed by proxies or

0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:38.880
<v Speaker 11>individuals either knowingly or unknowingly working on behalf of a

0:30:38.940 --> 0:30:39.560
<v Speaker 11>foreign state.

0:30:40.860 --> 0:30:44.340
<v Speaker 2>So you've got five men who counter-terrorism police say may

0:30:44.380 --> 0:30:47.080
<v Speaker 2>have been part of an Iranian plot to attack a

0:30:47.100 --> 0:30:50.320
<v Speaker 2>British military base out on bail. But don't worry, they're

0:30:50.340 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 2>subject to stringent conditions. Well, thank God for that. US

0:30:54.500 --> 0:30:57.560
<v Speaker 2>President Donald Trump could barely hide his dismay.

0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:03.060
<v Speaker 12>I would have said, don't let them have bail, cashless bail.

0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:06.140
<v Speaker 12>I wonder, is it cashless bail, I guess? I'm surprised

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 12>that they released them. I wouldn't have done that. Look,

0:31:08.060 --> 0:31:10.260
<v Speaker 12>they've been very good. They worked with us very closely.

0:31:11.330 --> 0:31:14.930
<v Speaker 12>We know everything about them. We would not have released them.

0:31:15.790 --> 0:31:18.010
<v Speaker 2>Joining me now is former White House press secretary to

0:31:18.070 --> 0:31:21.430
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump, Sean Spicer. Good evening, Sean. Great to have

0:31:21.450 --> 0:31:24.860
<v Speaker 2>you on the program. Obviously, this is being monitored very

0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:27.720
<v Speaker 2>closely in the United States because the alleged attack was

0:31:27.900 --> 0:31:30.400
<v Speaker 2>on a Royal Air Force base being used by US

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:34.900
<v Speaker 2>forces against Iran. When the men were arrested, Trump told

0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 2>reporters he knew all about what was going on and

0:31:37.180 --> 0:31:41.130
<v Speaker 2>that America had been monitoring the situation even before the arrests.

0:31:41.750 --> 0:31:43.410
<v Speaker 2>Now the Brits have released them in on bail and

0:31:43.450 --> 0:31:45.390
<v Speaker 2>Trump says there's no way he would have done that.

0:31:46.190 --> 0:31:47.030
<v Speaker 1>What's going on here?

0:31:48.550 --> 0:31:49.980
<v Speaker 4>Well, James, I mean, look, you noted it.

0:31:50.170 --> 0:31:54.140
<v Speaker 13>They're monitoring very stringently. It's very stringent. So, I mean,

0:31:54.220 --> 0:31:56.920
<v Speaker 13>if they want to blow something else up, there's a

0:31:57.000 --> 0:31:59.820
<v Speaker 13>good chance, a decent chance they'll know about it. So,

0:32:00.020 --> 0:32:04.240
<v Speaker 13>you know, rest assured that it's very stringent. Here's the

0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:07.500
<v Speaker 13>thing that I don't understand. Is it worse that it's

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:10.490
<v Speaker 13>on a Royal Air Force base, meaning that potentially it

0:32:10.550 --> 0:32:13.300
<v Speaker 13>was an attack on the homeland? or that it was

0:32:13.340 --> 0:32:15.780
<v Speaker 13>an attack on the United States, an ally of yours.

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.560
<v Speaker 13>I'm not sure. But in either case, the notion that

0:32:18.580 --> 0:32:21.720
<v Speaker 13>you can describe it as that serious and then say,

0:32:22.220 --> 0:32:25.780
<v Speaker 13>but guys, none of them are getting dessert tonight. None

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 13>of them. They are not getting dessert when they get home.

0:32:28.220 --> 0:32:31.940
<v Speaker 13>This is being taken very seriously. The degree to which

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:35.580
<v Speaker 13>this is being reflected here in the United States, I

0:32:35.620 --> 0:32:40.470
<v Speaker 13>think that President Trump was extremely restrained And hopefully behind

0:32:40.530 --> 0:32:43.630
<v Speaker 13>the scenes, we're having a much more serious conversation. But

0:32:43.670 --> 0:32:47.790
<v Speaker 13>if I were the British citizenry, I would be equally

0:32:47.870 --> 0:32:51.410
<v Speaker 13>concerned that if, God forbid, these individuals were trying to

0:32:51.450 --> 0:32:54.390
<v Speaker 13>cause harm to the base because it's British as opposed

0:32:54.410 --> 0:32:57.740
<v Speaker 13>to it being used by the Americans, that that's how

0:32:57.780 --> 0:33:02.580
<v Speaker 13>you're treating threats to the homeland. The entire thing literally

0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:07.360
<v Speaker 13>boggles my mind. And I couldn't have possibly scripted it worse.

0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

0:33:09.260 --> 0:33:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, in that same press conference, Donald Trump was asked

0:33:11.640 --> 0:33:15.239
<v Speaker 2>about petrol prices, and his response was essentially this. You

0:33:15.260 --> 0:33:18.340
<v Speaker 2>think petrol prices are bad? Imagine a nuclear war.

0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Take a look.

0:33:20.380 --> 0:33:24.050
<v Speaker 12>When the war ends, two things are going to happen.

0:33:24.270 --> 0:33:27.570
<v Speaker 12>The one thing already has happened. Iran will never have

0:33:27.610 --> 0:33:30.810
<v Speaker 12>a nuclear weapon. That's a very big thing. Because if

0:33:30.850 --> 0:33:35.190
<v Speaker 12>you want to see turmoil and a travesty, let them

0:33:35.250 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 12>take out a city with a nuclear weapon. Let them

0:33:37.580 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 12>hit us with a nuclear weapon. For all those stupid

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:43.180
<v Speaker 12>people that think it's OK, I deal with them. And

0:33:43.220 --> 0:33:45.420
<v Speaker 12>they are crazy. There's no question about it. They are

0:33:45.460 --> 0:33:47.680
<v Speaker 12>very crazy people. I tell them that all the time.

0:33:48.100 --> 0:33:49.200
<v Speaker 12>I said, you're crazy, man.

0:33:49.740 --> 0:33:52.740
<v Speaker 2>So like I said, Sean, that response was to a

0:33:52.860 --> 0:33:57.760
<v Speaker 2>question about petrol prices. Just help us understand Trump's thinking there.

0:33:59.730 --> 0:34:04.230
<v Speaker 13>Well, look, gas prices are the most visible part of

0:34:04.290 --> 0:34:07.630
<v Speaker 13>people's budget. Whether you're filling your tank up or not, generally,

0:34:07.650 --> 0:34:09.840
<v Speaker 13>I get up in the morning, I go get a

0:34:09.860 --> 0:34:11.600
<v Speaker 13>cup of coffee, and there's a gas station next to

0:34:11.640 --> 0:34:12.779
<v Speaker 13>the place where I get it. And I look at

0:34:12.820 --> 0:34:15.580
<v Speaker 13>the price almost every morning. And it is the most

0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:18.880
<v Speaker 13>tangible and visible way that Americans can determine something that

0:34:18.940 --> 0:34:21.440
<v Speaker 13>is having an impact on their budget. So whether you

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.279
<v Speaker 13>commute to work, you drop these kids off, you drive

0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:25.779
<v Speaker 13>an Uber or whatever it is.

0:34:25.910 --> 0:34:26.359
<v Speaker 6>Most people.

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 13>are impacted by the price of gas. And the president

0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 13>was trying to explain that, yes, this is a short-term

0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 13>problem that's affecting your budget and your affordability, but God

0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:40.710
<v Speaker 13>forbid we don't take this issue head on and the

0:34:40.770 --> 0:34:45.859
<v Speaker 13>Iranians were to do something absolutely horrific and horrible. Can

0:34:45.900 --> 0:34:48.839
<v Speaker 13>you imagine the consequences of that? And so, you know,

0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:51.010
<v Speaker 13>I get what he's getting at. To be honest with you,

0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:53.719
<v Speaker 13>I'd like this a little bit more fine-tuned because most

0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:57.489
<v Speaker 13>people get the fact that we're willing to make sacrifices

0:34:57.530 --> 0:35:00.150
<v Speaker 13>to protect the homeland. But I think it's got to

0:35:00.170 --> 0:35:01.910
<v Speaker 13>be a little bit more— the message has got to be

0:35:01.930 --> 0:35:02.470
<v Speaker 13>a little tighter.

0:35:03.510 --> 0:35:05.770
<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you about the U.N. meetings in

0:35:05.830 --> 0:35:08.450
<v Speaker 2>New York last week. Let's start with the big one,

0:35:08.510 --> 0:35:10.150
<v Speaker 2>Trump's meeting with Xi Jinping.

0:35:10.950 --> 0:35:13.100
<v Speaker 1>To me, it seemed very heavy on optics.

0:35:13.219 --> 0:35:15.500
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the Americans went to great lengths, I thought,

0:35:15.580 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 2>to honor the Chinese dictator, but pretty light on substantive agreements.

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:22.500
<v Speaker 1>Is that a fair assessment?

0:35:24.219 --> 0:35:26.460
<v Speaker 13>It is, but I would argue, James, that we need

0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:31.630
<v Speaker 13>to keep this in context. So during several aspects of

0:35:31.670 --> 0:35:34.109
<v Speaker 13>the Biden administration, they couldn't get the Chinese to return

0:35:34.150 --> 0:35:36.410
<v Speaker 13>their calls. And when I mean they, the most senior

0:35:36.450 --> 0:35:38.930
<v Speaker 13>leaders in our military could not get their counterparts in

0:35:38.950 --> 0:35:41.510
<v Speaker 13>the Chinese military to pick up the phone on their side.

0:35:42.090 --> 0:35:46.140
<v Speaker 13>That's a concern when your number one adversary won't even.

0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 6>Talk to you.

0:35:47.060 --> 0:35:50.529
<v Speaker 13>So President Trump, as a businessman, understands the value of

0:35:50.590 --> 0:35:54.470
<v Speaker 13>good relationships, the ability to have a conversation, open and honestly,

0:35:54.530 --> 0:35:57.330
<v Speaker 13>about the challenges that the two countries faces, the problems

0:35:57.350 --> 0:36:02.710
<v Speaker 13>that we face militarily, economically, and how to find a

0:36:02.730 --> 0:36:05.109
<v Speaker 13>path forward. This is something that we have dealt with

0:36:05.140 --> 0:36:07.660
<v Speaker 13>for decades. I remember back when I was the assistant

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:10.080
<v Speaker 13>US trade rep under President Bush, we had something called

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:15.400
<v Speaker 13>a strategic economic dialogue. The key word in that phrase

0:36:15.460 --> 0:36:19.840
<v Speaker 13>is dialogue. Keeping that line of communication open is critical.

0:36:20.580 --> 0:36:22.840
<v Speaker 13>That's why I think it's important to understand the context.

0:36:22.860 --> 0:36:25.260
<v Speaker 13>For a while, the Chinese had literally just stopped talking

0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:27.470
<v Speaker 13>to their counterparts in the US and The president was

0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:30.370
<v Speaker 13>keen on making sure that that relationship was strong again

0:36:30.730 --> 0:36:32.330
<v Speaker 13>and that they had an open and honest thing. They're

0:36:32.350 --> 0:36:34.170
<v Speaker 13>going to meet again in November. They'll probably meet at

0:36:34.190 --> 0:36:36.969
<v Speaker 13>least a couple other times at the G20. They'll meet

0:36:36.989 --> 0:36:40.390
<v Speaker 13>at AIPAC. There's another opportunity for a bilat as well.

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:46.680
<v Speaker 13>So keeping that conversation going is critical both militarily, artificial intelligence-wise,

0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:48.239
<v Speaker 13>and then economically.

0:36:49.180 --> 0:36:52.270
<v Speaker 2>One of the lighter moments of Xi and Trump's meeting,

0:36:52.350 --> 0:36:55.050
<v Speaker 2>I thought, was when Trump was showing the Chinese leader

0:36:55.130 --> 0:36:59.089
<v Speaker 2>all the portraits of US presidents. And then they came

0:36:59.170 --> 0:37:02.540
<v Speaker 2>to the portrait of former President Joe Biden, which is, in.

0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:14.669
<v Speaker 1>Fact, an auto pen. Take a look. Even Xi Jinping

0:37:14.690 --> 0:37:15.310
<v Speaker 1>got the joke.

0:37:15.370 --> 0:37:15.850
<v Speaker 6>I like that.

0:37:16.450 --> 0:37:18.370
<v Speaker 13>He didn't need a translator, did he? He didn't need

0:37:18.410 --> 0:37:22.730
<v Speaker 13>a translator for that. It was a lighthearted moment. I think,

0:37:22.890 --> 0:37:26.390
<v Speaker 13>like I said, the timing wasn't, in my opinion, perfect

0:37:26.450 --> 0:37:29.110
<v Speaker 13>because we're 40 days out from a midterm election and

0:37:29.130 --> 0:37:31.210
<v Speaker 13>people want you concentrating on them. But at the end

0:37:31.250 --> 0:37:33.670
<v Speaker 13>of the day, there is nothing when you talk about

0:37:34.250 --> 0:37:40.400
<v Speaker 13>the consequences of and importance of this relationship for us strategically, militarily, economically.

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:44.570
<v Speaker 13>It's critical. Obviously, the U.S., we're dealing with a massive,

0:37:44.630 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 13>massive alarm on the consequences of artificial intelligence. Our competitor

0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:52.799
<v Speaker 13>in this is China. So having the ability to have

0:37:52.820 --> 0:37:57.140
<v Speaker 13>a discussion with them about solutions that can potentially avoid

0:37:57.320 --> 0:38:01.150
<v Speaker 13>war and fog of war issues are important. So I

0:38:01.190 --> 0:38:03.650
<v Speaker 13>think having those two individuals He's going to be president

0:38:03.670 --> 0:38:08.549
<v Speaker 13>for the next two and a quarter years. So I

0:38:08.590 --> 0:38:11.009
<v Speaker 13>think that this was a good reset of that relationship.

0:38:11.469 --> 0:38:15.180
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, indeed. Sean Spicer, always a delight to catch up.

0:38:15.219 --> 0:38:16.220
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining me tonight.

0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:17.640
<v Speaker 4>You bet, James.

0:38:17.660 --> 0:38:17.900
<v Speaker 14>Thank you.

0:38:18.950 --> 0:38:19.790
<v Speaker 1>All right, stick around.

0:38:19.870 --> 0:38:22.830
<v Speaker 2>After the break, the Victorian Premier calls for Wharfie time,

0:38:23.250 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 2>suggesting he could do a Brisbane Lions and snatch victory

0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:29.340
<v Speaker 2>from the jaws of defeat. And with Larissa Waters stepping

0:38:29.380 --> 0:38:31.839
<v Speaker 2>down from the Greens leadership, we'll look at those who

0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:34.239
<v Speaker 2>could wear the crown. I tell you, it's not a

0:38:34.330 --> 0:38:37.730
<v Speaker 2>pretty list. My panel will dissect it with me after this.

0:38:42.330 --> 0:38:46.390
<v Speaker 2>Victorian Premier Ben Carroll is drawing inspiration from the Brisbane Lions'

0:38:46.469 --> 0:38:50.660
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary come-from-behind win over the Fremantle Dockers in the AFL

0:38:50.700 --> 0:38:52.859
<v Speaker 2>Grand Final. Now, if you're not an AFL fan, let

0:38:52.900 --> 0:38:55.960
<v Speaker 2>me set this up for you. Fremantle were comfortably in

0:38:56.020 --> 0:38:59.000
<v Speaker 2>front with just four minutes left when they started celebrating

0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:01.460
<v Speaker 2>what their supporters call Wharfie time.

0:39:01.540 --> 0:39:03.319
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately for the Dockers, the.

0:39:03.280 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Lions had other plans, staging a stunning comeback to snatch

0:39:07.219 --> 0:39:10.279
<v Speaker 2>a famous victory. And apparently, Ben Carroll has decided this

0:39:10.340 --> 0:39:12.820
<v Speaker 2>is a metaphor for for the Victorian election.

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:16.650
<v Speaker 10>Do you think that your government can have a last-minute

0:39:16.730 --> 0:39:17.549
<v Speaker 10>comeback like the Lions?

0:39:18.310 --> 0:39:20.750
<v Speaker 6>Look, it's war-free time.

0:39:21.190 --> 0:39:23.790
<v Speaker 2>And we know, Liberals and One Nation, think they've got

0:39:23.810 --> 0:39:25.710
<v Speaker 2>it in the bag, but we've got a message for them.

0:39:25.989 --> 0:39:28.630
<v Speaker 4>It's warfare time and we know Victorians will want a

0:39:28.670 --> 0:39:30.030
<v Speaker 4>positive plan for the future.

0:39:31.010 --> 0:39:33.190
<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is what you call desperation with a side

0:39:33.270 --> 0:39:36.310
<v Speaker 2>order of delusion. For a start, the Victorian Labor Party

0:39:36.330 --> 0:39:39.969
<v Speaker 2>better resembles Essendon right now than the Brisbane Lions. As

0:39:40.010 --> 0:39:42.820
<v Speaker 2>for his statement, Victorians want a positive plan for the future,

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:45.469
<v Speaker 2>I think he's right. The polls suggest Victorians are absolutely

0:39:45.550 --> 0:39:47.600
<v Speaker 2>positive they don't want Labor in their future.

0:39:48.100 --> 0:39:49.280
<v Speaker 1>And as for the Premier himself.

0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:52.100
<v Speaker 2>He's only 12 months into the job, but looking like

0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:54.219
<v Speaker 2>he needs to change his batteries. Have you ever seen

0:39:54.260 --> 0:39:58.000
<v Speaker 2>someone so flat on the campaign trail? Joining me is

0:39:58.060 --> 0:40:00.820
<v Speaker 2>Michael Danby, former Labor MP and chairman of the Joint

0:40:00.860 --> 0:40:03.810
<v Speaker 2>Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, and Mia Schlitt,

0:40:03.890 --> 0:40:08.210
<v Speaker 2>executive director of the Samuel Griffith Society. Mia, Ben Carroll's

0:40:08.330 --> 0:40:11.270
<v Speaker 2>kidding himself, isn't he? I mean, here's another difference. The

0:40:11.290 --> 0:40:14.740
<v Speaker 2>Brisbane Lions, they have their own silverware. The Victorian Labor

0:40:14.780 --> 0:40:17.120
<v Speaker 2>Party's silverware is all stolen from taxpayers.

0:40:19.890 --> 0:40:22.480
<v Speaker 5>Well, look, James, to be fair to Ben Carroll, there

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.340
<v Speaker 5>is one similarity. Just like Brisbane Lions are the back-to-back

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:29.440
<v Speaker 5>reigning champs, the Victorian Labor Party are the reigning champs

0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:31.840
<v Speaker 5>here when it comes to Victorian elections, so there is

0:40:31.900 --> 0:40:35.009
<v Speaker 5>that similarity. But unlike the Brisbane Lions, who had a

0:40:35.050 --> 0:40:38.550
<v Speaker 5>huge wake-up call and had a burst in performance, certainly

0:40:38.890 --> 0:40:41.270
<v Speaker 5>by the looks of Ben Carroll, it doesn't seem like

0:40:41.290 --> 0:40:44.390
<v Speaker 5>the Labor Party here in Victoria is anywhere close to

0:40:44.450 --> 0:40:47.360
<v Speaker 5>that same kind of burst. But however, I do think

0:40:47.390 --> 0:40:50.160
<v Speaker 5>that is symbolic of their position in this election. I mean,

0:40:50.300 --> 0:40:53.360
<v Speaker 5>I don't think Ben Carroll or the Labor Party here

0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:56.279
<v Speaker 5>has any intention to suddenly start performing because they know

0:40:56.300 --> 0:40:58.339
<v Speaker 5>that this is not an election that they will live

0:40:58.380 --> 0:41:01.760
<v Speaker 5>on primaries, win on primaries. This is all about preference

0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:04.930
<v Speaker 5>flows in this election. Labor intends to win this election

0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:08.910
<v Speaker 5>on the preference flows. That is ultimately what will determine

0:41:08.969 --> 0:41:10.390
<v Speaker 5>Labor's victory here in this state.

0:41:10.430 --> 0:41:11.550
<v Speaker 1>And if There aren't.

0:41:11.430 --> 0:41:15.090
<v Speaker 5>Enough Victorians who suddenly swing to putting Labor last on

0:41:15.110 --> 0:41:17.930
<v Speaker 5>the ballot paper. It could be very well likely that

0:41:17.950 --> 0:41:19.970
<v Speaker 5>we see Labor take another term of government.

0:41:20.450 --> 0:41:22.969
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're quite right with your point about, you know,

0:41:22.989 --> 0:41:25.750
<v Speaker 2>the Brisbane Lions. I think the Brisbane Lions were going

0:41:25.790 --> 0:41:29.009
<v Speaker 2>for a three-peat, right? I think Labor are going for

0:41:29.050 --> 0:41:30.590
<v Speaker 2>a four-peat in Victoria.

0:41:30.650 --> 0:41:33.250
<v Speaker 1>So there you go. Michael, he does sound to me

0:41:33.270 --> 0:41:35.170
<v Speaker 1>like a man who well and truly knows his fate.

0:41:36.190 --> 0:41:39.129
<v Speaker 15>Well, poor Ben was selected, mainly, James, because he's not

0:41:39.170 --> 0:41:41.980
<v Speaker 15>in the socialist left. because he's not Jacinta Allen, because

0:41:42.000 --> 0:41:47.230
<v Speaker 15>he's not Dan Andrews. But please, Ben, voters hate it

0:41:47.290 --> 0:41:52.190
<v Speaker 15>when program politicians use lines like it's, you know, it's

0:41:52.270 --> 0:41:57.609
<v Speaker 15>Wharfie time. Most people who watch that don't necessarily follow

0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:01.140
<v Speaker 15>the football and might think he's invoking the Wharfies. It

0:42:01.180 --> 0:42:03.980
<v Speaker 15>couldn't be anything worse. Amir's right, though. The main thing

0:42:04.020 --> 0:42:09.620
<v Speaker 15>that might save him is the compulsory preferential system where Greens' preferences...

0:42:10.020 --> 0:42:15.840
<v Speaker 15>will elect many Labor members and where, God forbid, if

0:42:15.890 --> 0:42:21.450
<v Speaker 15>the Liberals continue to give their preferences to inner-city Green MPs,

0:42:22.410 --> 0:42:25.680
<v Speaker 15>Labor may lose 16 seats and be preserved on a

0:42:25.739 --> 0:42:31.960
<v Speaker 15>couple of Green Party members. James, things in Victoria would

0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:34.040
<v Speaker 15>be worse than they are now.

0:42:34.980 --> 0:42:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're quite right.

0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:39.299
<v Speaker 2>Well, we'll all see what happens in November. All right,

0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:40.850
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk to you about the Greens because

0:42:40.870 --> 0:42:44.750
<v Speaker 2>they're set to elect a new leader either tomorrow or Thursday.

0:42:45.230 --> 0:42:49.530
<v Speaker 2>This comes after Larissa Waters' shock resignation yesterday. She announced

0:42:49.590 --> 0:42:52.070
<v Speaker 2>she's walking away from the leadership to focus on managing

0:42:52.110 --> 0:42:55.590
<v Speaker 2>a pre-existing kidney disease. And we certainly all wish her

0:42:55.610 --> 0:42:57.819
<v Speaker 2>the very best with her health. I want to have

0:42:57.840 --> 0:43:02.140
<v Speaker 2>a look at the key contenders to fill her Birkenstocks.

0:43:02.700 --> 0:43:05.550
<v Speaker 1>Michael's laughing already. Wait till you see the contenders, Michael.

0:43:05.570 --> 0:43:07.469
<v Speaker 1>You've got... Let me give you the first one.

0:43:07.989 --> 0:43:11.010
<v Speaker 2>So you've got Sarah Stinking Salmon Hanson Young.

0:43:11.070 --> 0:43:11.469
<v Speaker 1>Have a look.

0:43:12.570 --> 0:43:15.660
<v Speaker 13>For a rotten, stinking, extinction salmon.

0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Senator Hanson Young.

0:43:16.940 --> 0:43:18.160
<v Speaker 3>Extinction salmon.

0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:19.060
<v Speaker 1>Senator.

0:43:20.580 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it's fair to say she's a catch. But

0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:27.510
<v Speaker 2>if you prefer, there's David Shoebridge, who apparently thought this

0:43:27.590 --> 0:43:30.430
<v Speaker 2>was something the Australian Prime Minister should have on his

0:43:30.489 --> 0:43:33.330
<v Speaker 2>mind when meeting with the President of the United States.

0:43:34.410 --> 0:43:37.680
<v Speaker 13>I wonder if they mentioned Donald Trump's thousands and thousands

0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:39.819
<v Speaker 13>of mentions in the Epstein files in their phone call.

0:43:41.540 --> 0:43:43.500
<v Speaker 2>Oh, nothing says I should be the leader of a

0:43:43.540 --> 0:43:46.420
<v Speaker 2>political party, quite like sounding as though you spend all

0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 2>your time scrolling through Reddit. But who knows that the

0:43:49.620 --> 0:43:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Greens might surprise and go with an actual environmentalist. Here's

0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:57.060
<v Speaker 2>Nick McKim explaining his sunny vision for humanity.

0:43:58.390 --> 0:43:58.660
<v Speaker 4>Death!

0:43:59.460 --> 0:44:06.600
<v Speaker 14>Disease, displacement, starvation, people dying of thirst, arable farming lands

0:44:06.980 --> 0:44:10.920
<v Speaker 14>turning into desert and most likely billions of people dead

0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:14.170
<v Speaker 14>by the end of this century and the collapse of

0:44:14.210 --> 0:44:18.750
<v Speaker 14>the ecosystems that actually support all human life on this planet.

0:44:19.110 --> 0:44:22.649
<v Speaker 14>That's what people like Senator Canavan have got to answer for.

0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:25.739
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure about the temperament, but he's certainly got

0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the optimism required for leadership. But my money is on

0:44:29.040 --> 0:44:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the current deputy leader, Maureen Faruqi.

0:44:32.580 --> 0:44:36.730
<v Speaker 13>This place has broken me with its racism. This place

0:44:36.989 --> 0:44:38.110
<v Speaker 13>has broken.

0:44:37.750 --> 0:44:41.810
<v Speaker 5>Me with its attacks on Muslims, on Palestinian refugees, on

0:44:41.850 --> 0:44:43.740
<v Speaker 5>disabled people and on women.

0:44:44.830 --> 0:44:45.670
<v Speaker 1>So there you have it, guys.

0:44:45.710 --> 0:44:49.420
<v Speaker 2>It's less a leadership contest and more a choose-your-own-adventure in

0:44:49.460 --> 0:44:54.200
<v Speaker 2>progressive politics. Whoever wins the leadership contest, Mia, I don't

0:44:54.219 --> 0:44:57.490
<v Speaker 2>think they'll become more moderate. That would be altogether too radical,

0:44:57.510 --> 0:44:57.830
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't it?

0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:01.620
<v Speaker 5>No, James, I don't think it's likely. But, hey, maybe

0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:06.430
<v Speaker 5>that's more fitting. The Greens are losing supporters by the day.

0:45:06.489 --> 0:45:09.140
<v Speaker 5>They are a fringe party and those who support them

0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:11.969
<v Speaker 5>represent a very fringe portion of Australia. It is a

0:45:12.090 --> 0:45:16.630
<v Speaker 5>narrow portion of Australia. And despite the increasing vocalness of

0:45:16.670 --> 0:45:19.050
<v Speaker 5>the Greens, they don't actually speak to that many people.

0:45:19.090 --> 0:45:20.730
<v Speaker 5>So perhaps it is more fitting that there is a

0:45:20.770 --> 0:45:23.650
<v Speaker 5>change of leadership who are very clear about what it

0:45:23.710 --> 0:45:26.029
<v Speaker 5>is that they stand for and the fact they do

0:45:26.110 --> 0:45:28.670
<v Speaker 5>stand for very extreme ideas. I mean, all three of

0:45:28.710 --> 0:45:31.390
<v Speaker 5>these potential contenders have at some stage made it clear

0:45:31.410 --> 0:45:33.469
<v Speaker 5>that they don't like Australia and they're not here to

0:45:33.530 --> 0:45:37.730
<v Speaker 5>advocate for Australian values. And the louder they are about that, well,

0:45:37.770 --> 0:45:39.509
<v Speaker 5>I think the sooner we'll see fewer and fewer of

0:45:39.550 --> 0:45:41.489
<v Speaker 5>them in Parliament, and that's probably a good thing.

0:45:42.270 --> 0:45:45.050
<v Speaker 2>So, Michael, who should take up the mantle of Greens leader,

0:45:45.150 --> 0:45:47.750
<v Speaker 2>in your opinion, if you had to decide, of the four?

0:45:49.660 --> 0:45:52.840
<v Speaker 15>Adam Bank, the previous lady, was thrown out by the electorate,

0:45:53.140 --> 0:45:55.500
<v Speaker 15>as were three of the four people in the lower house.

0:45:56.460 --> 0:46:04.310
<v Speaker 15>The Greens in the Australian Senate seem to be increasingly extreme. McKim, Shoebridge, Faruqi,

0:46:04.710 --> 0:46:08.250
<v Speaker 15>they compete with each other to denounce each other as

0:46:08.310 --> 0:46:14.210
<v Speaker 15>heretics and as fanatics. Honestly, Sarah Hansen-Young is an old-fashioned,

0:46:15.670 --> 0:46:20.060
<v Speaker 15>interested in environmental issues like salmon farming. She might be

0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.819
<v Speaker 15>the best hope they have of retaining any power in

0:46:23.860 --> 0:46:28.900
<v Speaker 15>the upper house, but God forbid if they have continuing

0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:32.819
<v Speaker 15>power in the Australian Senate to determine legislation. I think

0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:34.940
<v Speaker 15>that's going to be the big change at the next election.

0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:38.359
<v Speaker 15>One nation's real success will be in the Senate, where

0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:43.860
<v Speaker 15>they replace the Greens as the swing factor, together with

0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:45.860
<v Speaker 15>the Conservatives, constituting a majority.

0:46:46.860 --> 0:46:49.259
<v Speaker 2>Mia, in my honest opinion, I think it does come

0:46:49.300 --> 0:46:52.140
<v Speaker 2>down to two candidates. I don't think Nick McKim or

0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:55.140
<v Speaker 2>David Shoebridge would have the support, although it's hard to

0:46:55.180 --> 0:46:59.450
<v Speaker 2>know because the Greens' process is so secretive, right? But

0:46:59.650 --> 0:47:03.070
<v Speaker 2>if it comes down to Sarah Hansen-Young, then I suppose

0:47:03.110 --> 0:47:05.969
<v Speaker 2>they'd be a little bit more environmentally minded. But if

0:47:06.030 --> 0:47:09.410
<v Speaker 2>Maureen Faruqi takes over the leadership, I could see the

0:47:09.469 --> 0:47:12.899
<v Speaker 2>Australian Greens very much going the way of the UK Greens,

0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:15.100
<v Speaker 2>which means completely loopy.

0:47:16.860 --> 0:47:18.560
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think this really will come down to be

0:47:18.580 --> 0:47:21.220
<v Speaker 5>a real show of who the Greens actually are these days.

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:23.779
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they started out advocating for themselves as some

0:47:23.840 --> 0:47:26.279
<v Speaker 5>kind of party representing the environment, and that was the

0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:29.540
<v Speaker 5>causes that they originally spoke about. So if that's where

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:31.430
<v Speaker 5>the party would like to return, then I think it

0:47:31.469 --> 0:47:34.730
<v Speaker 5>would be more fitting for Hanson Young to take the leadership,

0:47:34.810 --> 0:47:37.170
<v Speaker 5>but I don't think that's likely because I think the

0:47:37.190 --> 0:47:41.049
<v Speaker 5>Greens have shifted from their original base, and I think

0:47:41.070 --> 0:47:43.630
<v Speaker 5>they're increasingly a radical party who are more concerned about

0:47:43.910 --> 0:47:48.180
<v Speaker 5>about social causes, things like mass migration and legalising drugs,

0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:50.200
<v Speaker 5>and I think that's why we'll see Farooqi take the job.

0:47:50.780 --> 0:47:52.460
<v Speaker 1>So that's your tip? You reckon Farooqi will get it?

0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:55.440
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's my guess, James.

0:47:55.500 --> 0:47:57.320
<v Speaker 15>She's dead on the ball, James.

0:47:58.040 --> 0:47:58.719
<v Speaker 14>Exactly right.

0:47:58.760 --> 0:48:03.460
<v Speaker 15>Farooqi, amongst fanatics, you picked the most fanatical person And

0:48:03.500 --> 0:48:04.739
<v Speaker 15>Faruqi clearly is that.

0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:06.819
<v Speaker 2>I tell you what, if she doesn't get it, I

0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:10.160
<v Speaker 2>bet she will stand up and accuse them all of racism.

0:48:10.260 --> 0:48:12.020
<v Speaker 1>So they had better pick her.

0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:15.140
<v Speaker 2>Michael Danby, Mia Schlitt, always wonderful to catch up. Thanks

0:48:15.180 --> 0:48:17.899
<v Speaker 2>so much for being with me tonight. That's all I've

0:48:17.940 --> 0:48:20.239
<v Speaker 2>got time for. I appreciate your company. I'll be back

0:48:20.300 --> 0:48:23.980
<v Speaker 2>again tomorrow night at 7pm. But don't go anywhere. Up

0:48:24.020 --> 0:48:25.720
<v Speaker 2>right now is the brilliant Shari Marks.