WEBVTT - Sam Kerr’s own goal

0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.880
<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:15.040
<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday, February thirteen. A judge who was sued by

0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.639
<v Speaker 1>a man he wrongfully convicted has won the right to

0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.760
<v Speaker 1>appeal to the High Court. It'll be a landmark hearing

0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.400
<v Speaker 1>over judges liability for their decisions. That's an exclusive life

0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>now at the Australian dot Com dot u will sponsors

0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:36.120
<v Speaker 1>and the Matilda's stick with injured captain Sam Kerr. She's

0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.360
<v Speaker 1>had a victory in London's Kingston Crown Court where a

0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.280
<v Speaker 1>jury found her not guilty of racially abusing a police

0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.600
<v Speaker 1>officer by calling him stupid and white. But Kerr has

0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.639
<v Speaker 1>come off as a bit of a brat today, her

0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.120
<v Speaker 1>secret attempt to get the matter thrown out of court

0:00:52.479 --> 0:01:03.520
<v Speaker 1>and the reputational hit she's taking. Before we begin, there's

0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:13.440
<v Speaker 1>swearing in this episode. You've probably heard the highlights of

0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.319
<v Speaker 1>Matilda's Captain Sam Kurr's drunken early morning tirade in a

0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:18.720
<v Speaker 1>London police station.

0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:25.200
<v Speaker 2>As a honestly, you have a fucking stupid and wife.

0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay. That came from a short cut of the audio

0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.520
<v Speaker 1>released by Kingston Crown Court. During Sam Kurr's trial for

0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.679
<v Speaker 1>racially abusing officer Stephen Lovell. Later in the trial, the

0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.520
<v Speaker 1>court released a thirty minute cut of Kerr in the

0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:47.640
<v Speaker 1>cop shop, which makes for a tough Listen. Yeah, like,

0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to post this Twitter.

0:01:54.040 --> 0:02:01.800
<v Speaker 2>The best lawyers you're sack saying you're literally privileged person,

0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.120
<v Speaker 2>You're literally a white privilege.

0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:05.120
<v Speaker 3>I'm not paying for.

0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.040
<v Speaker 4>Oh I know, to four am in the morning and

0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.120
<v Speaker 4>get the Chelsea lawyers on these.

0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm not taking the brunt of this. Kerr was

0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.440
<v Speaker 1>acquitted by the jury, but the trial has cost a

0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.320
<v Speaker 1>fortune in legal fees and is likely to cost ker

0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.239
<v Speaker 1>something even more valuable, her reputation.

0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Matilda's fans have been left stunned after it emerged Captain

0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.519
<v Speaker 2>Sam Kerr faced to London court overnight changed with harassing

0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.480
<v Speaker 2>a police officer. Uk Met Police have released a statement

0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.720
<v Speaker 2>this morning revealing that Sam Kerr was charged under Section

0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.720
<v Speaker 2>four A of the Public Order Act that involves the

0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.520
<v Speaker 2>use of threatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior.

0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.119
<v Speaker 1>In breaking news, Sam Kerr has been found not guilty

0:02:53.280 --> 0:03:02.720
<v Speaker 1>of racially aggravated harassment by a London jury. Jacqueline Magney

0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.200
<v Speaker 1>is the Australian's year of correspondent and she's been in

0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.200
<v Speaker 1>London for this trial. Jack. I know you weren't a

0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.360
<v Speaker 1>member of the jury, and of course in England, just

0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.960
<v Speaker 1>like in Australia, juries aren't supposed to tell what happened

0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.640
<v Speaker 1>in the jury room. But giving your best guess, why

0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.280
<v Speaker 1>do you think this jury acquitted Sam Kerr?

0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.480
<v Speaker 4>I think there were two issues here. One was whether

0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.800
<v Speaker 4>they believed the police officer, Stephen Lovell, whether he actually

0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:33.160
<v Speaker 4>suffered because of the racial or the alleged racial insults.

0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.640
<v Speaker 4>He was a very kind of straight up and down

0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:40.080
<v Speaker 4>witness and said he was hurt and humiliated, but it

0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.840
<v Speaker 4>lacked a little bit of passion about what he felt.

0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.280
<v Speaker 4>He didn't take any time off work, and also he

0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.920
<v Speaker 4>gave that evidence in a written statement ten months after

0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:55.400
<v Speaker 4>the event, when the Crown Prosecution Service wanted more information

0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.160
<v Speaker 4>to go forward with the charge. So I think that

0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.040
<v Speaker 4>may have played a little bit on the jury's mind.

0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:08.720
<v Speaker 4>And I also think that the jury really felt a

0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.520
<v Speaker 4>little bit sorry for Sam Kurve. I think that they

0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.960
<v Speaker 4>could put themselves in her situation, that they realized she

0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:21.160
<v Speaker 4>and Christi Muus were genuinely scared, and that the lead

0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.760
<v Speaker 4>up to her swearing at the police officers may have

0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:25.880
<v Speaker 4>been justified.

0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Jack, You've written in your piece for The Australian about this,

0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.760
<v Speaker 1>about how Sam Kerr arrived every morning in a kind

0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.760
<v Speaker 1>of people mover or organized by Chelsea and jogged up

0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.039
<v Speaker 1>the stairs of the court flanked by a couple of

0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.680
<v Speaker 1>security guards. What do you think we've learned about Sam

0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Kerr in her behavior during this trial.

0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.920
<v Speaker 4>Well, we know she can swear. Also, I think she

0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.520
<v Speaker 4>lacks a little bit of perspective because when it was

0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.799
<v Speaker 4>put to her several times in the witness box whether

0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.760
<v Speaker 4>now that she knew that the taxi driver had rung

0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.760
<v Speaker 4>the police twice during the journey, he was so concerned

0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.280
<v Speaker 4>about their behavior, of them standing in the back of

0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.279
<v Speaker 4>the cab and kicking off, which saw some extensive damage

0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:13.880
<v Speaker 4>to the taxi ultimately, and she just dismissed the taxi driver,

0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:18.080
<v Speaker 4>said he was irrelevant. She did not concede that perhaps

0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:22.240
<v Speaker 4>she had misinterpreted what had gone on, and she didn't

0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.719
<v Speaker 4>offer any perspective on what went on other than she

0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.440
<v Speaker 4>was just scared. And that's all the viewpoint that she

0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.120
<v Speaker 4>felt that she could offer about that night. Now, of

0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.720
<v Speaker 4>course she was very drunk, and the evidence showed in

0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:41.000
<v Speaker 4>some inconsistencies in the evidence that perhaps she couldn't recall

0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.400
<v Speaker 4>everything as best as what she perhaps claimed she could

0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:49.520
<v Speaker 4>because there was some inconsistencies. So I think that sam Kerr,

0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:54.360
<v Speaker 4>if she reflects truly back on what has happened, I

0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.400
<v Speaker 4>think that she may concede that perhaps she made a

0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:04.680
<v Speaker 4>few little errors that night herself. Yeah, looking at.

0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.200
<v Speaker 1>How sam Kerr behaved in and around the court and

0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.760
<v Speaker 1>on that body worn footage that we saw played to

0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the jury, is your perspective that she was behaving like

0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.840
<v Speaker 1>a bit of a brat or can it be explained

0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.159
<v Speaker 1>as something more innocent, it was just a drunken night out.

0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.560
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think it's both. Really. I think that when

0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.120
<v Speaker 4>you've had a few drinks, someone's character does tend to change.

0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.320
<v Speaker 4>And as marvelous as she is on the football field,

0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.840
<v Speaker 4>she's not marvelous of it after she's had a lot

0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.680
<v Speaker 4>of drinks. And I think that we saw that the

0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:41.920
<v Speaker 4>evidence on that video is shocking and very unattractive, And

0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:46.479
<v Speaker 4>even her own lawyer told the jury that legal counsel

0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:51.040
<v Speaker 4>was not hiding away from just how ugly that was portrayed,

0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.719
<v Speaker 4>and how it portrays her and really now, even though

0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.680
<v Speaker 4>she's one in Kingston Crown Court, I don't think she's

0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.120
<v Speaker 4>one in the court of public opinion. And I think

0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.880
<v Speaker 4>that most people who've seen that video will now form

0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.200
<v Speaker 4>a different opinion of what they perhaps thought of her

0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:08.039
<v Speaker 4>before the trial.

0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of course she's been acquitted, which she might think

0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.840
<v Speaker 1>is a justification of her decision to plead not guilty

0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.320
<v Speaker 1>and to see it through to a full trial. But

0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.120
<v Speaker 1>this is someone who's advised by Chelsea's very expensive media managers.

0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Football Australia has media managers who would have been advising her.

0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.240
<v Speaker 1>She of course, had engaged her own reputational expert, as

0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.480
<v Speaker 1>you've written in The Australian. Why didn't any of those

0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.200
<v Speaker 1>people tell her to plead guilty a year ago and

0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.640
<v Speaker 1>just make this go away so that that body worn

0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.200
<v Speaker 1>footage would never appear.

0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.679
<v Speaker 4>Well, not only would that body worn footage never appeared,

0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.840
<v Speaker 4>we would never have known about the case because when

0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.520
<v Speaker 4>it appeared in Wimbledon Magistrates Court, it had not made

0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.600
<v Speaker 4>the media. People were not aware of it and it

0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:56.480
<v Speaker 4>would have just quietly gone away. I think perhaps she

0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.560
<v Speaker 4>was receiving legal advice that if she had accepted a

0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.240
<v Speaker 4>cause or accepted a guilty plead, she would have been

0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.320
<v Speaker 4>slapped across the risk and given a fine, maybe some

0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.800
<v Speaker 4>community service at worst. That it could impact on her

0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.760
<v Speaker 4>ability to travel around the world. So maybe she felt

0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.920
<v Speaker 4>that her career could be affected if she had some

0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:22.240
<v Speaker 4>kind of criminal record in that sense, and so she

0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.560
<v Speaker 4>also going to the Crown Court. She's before a jury

0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.280
<v Speaker 4>and in the meantime, she had also tried to have

0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.400
<v Speaker 4>the case thrown out of court because of the extra

0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.440
<v Speaker 4>evidence that the Crown Prosecution Service had sought to get

0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.320
<v Speaker 4>further statements from people involved in the case. They were

0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.960
<v Speaker 4>accusing the police of abusive process and wanted it thrown out.

0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.960
<v Speaker 4>Now we couldn't report that at the time it was

0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.080
<v Speaker 4>under quite heavy reporting restrictions, but now that the jury

0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.360
<v Speaker 4>has made its verdict we can now report on this.

0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.080
<v Speaker 4>So she was trying to get the case thrown out

0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.640
<v Speaker 4>so no one would know about it, and it was

0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.240
<v Speaker 4>a bit of a lottery for her. So in the

0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.400
<v Speaker 4>end she had to turn up in court. We all

0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.559
<v Speaker 4>saw that footage, but she does not have a criminal

0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:09.400
<v Speaker 4>record at all.

0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Coming up, What will sponsors and football bosses make of Ker?

0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Now you've covered sport for many years. You've got to

0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.040
<v Speaker 1>know the most famous athletes in the world. She has

0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.080
<v Speaker 1>sponsorships as well as contracts with Chelsea of course, and

0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.000
<v Speaker 1>with the Matildas. How do you think this will affect

0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.839
<v Speaker 1>her bankability and her reputation, her ability to make a

0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.880
<v Speaker 1>living apart from just by scoring goals.

0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.560
<v Speaker 4>I think in the short term there won't be any

0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.720
<v Speaker 4>impact at all because the current sponsors will honor their contracts.

0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.640
<v Speaker 4>I think what will happen is down the track that

0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.360
<v Speaker 4>you'll find new sponsorship or renewals will be a lot

0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.560
<v Speaker 4>more difficult. That sponsors will think we can go to

0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.640
<v Speaker 4>someone else. They'll find other options, and I think that

0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.000
<v Speaker 4>this will be quite damaging financially for her in the

0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.800
<v Speaker 4>long term, not in the short term at all. And

0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.000
<v Speaker 4>I think that she's coming into a different stage in

0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.240
<v Speaker 4>her life now. She's about to have a baby, her

0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:28.199
<v Speaker 4>partner's six months pregnant, and her footballing career. She's been

0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.360
<v Speaker 4>off the field for a year. She's really got to

0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.840
<v Speaker 4>prove herself now that she's in some kind of shape

0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.800
<v Speaker 4>and that she's able to return to her best with

0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.000
<v Speaker 4>her footballing career. So she's out of real crossroads at

0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.080
<v Speaker 4>the moment and will be yet to be seen another

0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.360
<v Speaker 4>twelve months. If we have this conversation, it'll be interesting

0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.160
<v Speaker 4>to see whether she's bounced back in the football sense

0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.480
<v Speaker 4>and also just dealing with a new family life.

0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Finally, Jack, in your reporting from Britain and in my

0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.920
<v Speaker 1>reading of the UK media, I see a lot of

0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:02.600
<v Speaker 1>reports of the policing of language, of the criminalization of language.

0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.240
<v Speaker 1>We've seen a prominent columnist visited by police and threatened

0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.560
<v Speaker 1>with charges over a tweet that she made.

0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.680
<v Speaker 3>Now you may have been following the case of Allison Pearson,

0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.840
<v Speaker 3>the Telegraph journalist who got a visit from the police

0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:21.680
<v Speaker 3>over a tweet that she made and deleted some time ago,

0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.480
<v Speaker 3>and Essex Police have made a statement saying they have

0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.440
<v Speaker 3>reviewed this case, having sought advice from the Crown Prosecution Service,

0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.640
<v Speaker 3>they have advised that no charges should be brought in

0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:35.000
<v Speaker 3>this matter with Is there.

0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.440
<v Speaker 1>A climate in Britain now where freedom of speech is

0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.120
<v Speaker 1>being curtailed do you think? And is this part of

0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.720
<v Speaker 1>that trend or is the Sam Kirk case part of

0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:45.640
<v Speaker 1>something different here?

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, in the UK they have something called their non

0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.679
<v Speaker 4>crime hate offenses, where it's perceived that if you are

0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.520
<v Speaker 4>hostile or prejudiced against somebody on the basis of race

0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:03.840
<v Speaker 4>or ethnicity or six suality that you can be recorded

0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.360
<v Speaker 4>and it's meant to be a little bit of an

0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 4>alert for the police that to keep track on people

0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.840
<v Speaker 4>that might be a little bit of concern and maybe

0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:18.200
<v Speaker 4>perhaps lean to some kind of extremes. But what we've

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.520
<v Speaker 4>found is that the police have been very vigilant about

0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.520
<v Speaker 4>this and taking it to an extreme that perhaps the

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.360
<v Speaker 4>lawmakers didn't intend it to be. So it's been a

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.360
<v Speaker 4>political issue. And you've mentioned Alison Pearson, who is a

0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 4>columnist who was accused of a tweet that she made

0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.080
<v Speaker 4>in good faith and that's what she believed, and yet

0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.120
<v Speaker 4>she was deemed to be this could have been a

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:45.240
<v Speaker 4>non criminal hate crime. So it's one of these things

0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:49.000
<v Speaker 4>that in the UK it's taken incredibly seriously, the whole

0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 4>issue of race. But people know this. They know that

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:57.480
<v Speaker 4>if they accuse somebody of an insult and happened to

0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 4>put a color on it, whether that's black or white,

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.160
<v Speaker 4>you're in trouble and it is perceived to be an

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.640
<v Speaker 4>insult and it is perceived to be the wrong thing

0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 4>to do. So I sense over here it's a lot

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 4>more sensitive than what it is in Australia. And in

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 4>Australia I feel that people would say I'll just grow

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.439
<v Speaker 4>a thick skin, But in Britain it's very much seen

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 4>as something to be aware of and conscious of and

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 4>sensitive to.

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Magnet is The Australian's You're a Correspondent. You can

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 1>read all her reporting, plus dispatches from our network of

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 1>journalists around the world, right now at The Australian dot

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 1>com dot au