1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: It's Thursday, February thirteen. A judge who was sued by 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: a man he wrongfully convicted has won the right to 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: appeal to the High Court. It'll be a landmark hearing 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: over judges liability for their decisions. That's an exclusive life 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: now at the Australian dot Com dot u will sponsors 7 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: and the Matilda's stick with injured captain Sam Kerr. She's 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: had a victory in London's Kingston Crown Court where a 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: jury found her not guilty of racially abusing a police 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: officer by calling him stupid and white. But Kerr has 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: come off as a bit of a brat today, her 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: secret attempt to get the matter thrown out of court 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: and the reputational hit she's taking. Before we begin, there's 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: swearing in this episode. You've probably heard the highlights of 15 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: Matilda's Captain Sam Kurr's drunken early morning tirade in a 16 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: London police station. 17 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: As a honestly, you have a fucking stupid and wife. 18 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: Okay. That came from a short cut of the audio 19 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: released by Kingston Crown Court. During Sam Kurr's trial for 20 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: racially abusing officer Stephen Lovell. Later in the trial, the 21 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: court released a thirty minute cut of Kerr in the 22 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: cop shop, which makes for a tough Listen. Yeah, like, 23 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to post this Twitter. 24 00:01:54,040 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: The best lawyers you're sack saying you're literally privileged person, 25 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: You're literally a white privilege. 26 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: I'm not paying for. 27 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 4: Oh I know, to four am in the morning and 28 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 4: get the Chelsea lawyers on these. 29 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm not taking the brunt of this. Kerr was 30 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: acquitted by the jury, but the trial has cost a 31 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: fortune in legal fees and is likely to cost ker 32 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: something even more valuable, her reputation. 33 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: Matilda's fans have been left stunned after it emerged Captain 34 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 2: Sam Kerr faced to London court overnight changed with harassing 35 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: a police officer. Uk Met Police have released a statement 36 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: this morning revealing that Sam Kerr was charged under Section 37 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: four A of the Public Order Act that involves the 38 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 2: use of threatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior. 39 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: In breaking news, Sam Kerr has been found not guilty 40 00:02:53,280 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: of racially aggravated harassment by a London jury. Jacqueline Magney 41 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: is the Australian's year of correspondent and she's been in 42 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: London for this trial. Jack. I know you weren't a 43 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: member of the jury, and of course in England, just 44 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: like in Australia, juries aren't supposed to tell what happened 45 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: in the jury room. But giving your best guess, why 46 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: do you think this jury acquitted Sam Kerr? 47 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 4: I think there were two issues here. One was whether 48 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 4: they believed the police officer, Stephen Lovell, whether he actually 49 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 4: suffered because of the racial or the alleged racial insults. 50 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 4: He was a very kind of straight up and down 51 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 4: witness and said he was hurt and humiliated, but it 52 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 4: lacked a little bit of passion about what he felt. 53 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 4: He didn't take any time off work, and also he 54 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 4: gave that evidence in a written statement ten months after 55 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 4: the event, when the Crown Prosecution Service wanted more information 56 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 4: to go forward with the charge. So I think that 57 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 4: may have played a little bit on the jury's mind. 58 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 4: And I also think that the jury really felt a 59 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 4: little bit sorry for Sam Kurve. I think that they 60 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 4: could put themselves in her situation, that they realized she 61 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 4: and Christi Muus were genuinely scared, and that the lead 62 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 4: up to her swearing at the police officers may have 63 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 4: been justified. 64 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: Jack, You've written in your piece for The Australian about this, 65 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: about how Sam Kerr arrived every morning in a kind 66 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: of people mover or organized by Chelsea and jogged up 67 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: the stairs of the court flanked by a couple of 68 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: security guards. What do you think we've learned about Sam 69 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: Kerr in her behavior during this trial. 70 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 4: Well, we know she can swear. Also, I think she 71 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 4: lacks a little bit of perspective because when it was 72 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 4: put to her several times in the witness box whether 73 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 4: now that she knew that the taxi driver had rung 74 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: the police twice during the journey, he was so concerned 75 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 4: about their behavior, of them standing in the back of 76 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 4: the cab and kicking off, which saw some extensive damage 77 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 4: to the taxi ultimately, and she just dismissed the taxi driver, 78 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 4: said he was irrelevant. She did not concede that perhaps 79 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 4: she had misinterpreted what had gone on, and she didn't 80 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 4: offer any perspective on what went on other than she 81 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 4: was just scared. And that's all the viewpoint that she 82 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 4: felt that she could offer about that night. Now, of 83 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 4: course she was very drunk, and the evidence showed in 84 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 4: some inconsistencies in the evidence that perhaps she couldn't recall 85 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 4: everything as best as what she perhaps claimed she could 86 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 4: because there was some inconsistencies. So I think that sam Kerr, 87 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 4: if she reflects truly back on what has happened, I 88 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 4: think that she may concede that perhaps she made a 89 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 4: few little errors that night herself. Yeah, looking at. 90 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: How sam Kerr behaved in and around the court and 91 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: on that body worn footage that we saw played to 92 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: the jury, is your perspective that she was behaving like 93 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: a bit of a brat or can it be explained 94 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: as something more innocent, it was just a drunken night out. 95 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's both. Really. I think that when 96 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 4: you've had a few drinks, someone's character does tend to change. 97 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 4: And as marvelous as she is on the football field, 98 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 4: she's not marvelous of it after she's had a lot 99 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 4: of drinks. And I think that we saw that the 100 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 4: evidence on that video is shocking and very unattractive, And 101 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 4: even her own lawyer told the jury that legal counsel 102 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 4: was not hiding away from just how ugly that was portrayed, 103 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 4: and how it portrays her and really now, even though 104 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 4: she's one in Kingston Crown Court, I don't think she's 105 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 4: one in the court of public opinion. And I think 106 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 4: that most people who've seen that video will now form 107 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 4: a different opinion of what they perhaps thought of her 108 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 4: before the trial. 109 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course she's been acquitted, which she might think 110 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: is a justification of her decision to plead not guilty 111 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: and to see it through to a full trial. But 112 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: this is someone who's advised by Chelsea's very expensive media managers. 113 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: Football Australia has media managers who would have been advising her. 114 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: She of course, had engaged her own reputational expert, as 115 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: you've written in The Australian. Why didn't any of those 116 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: people tell her to plead guilty a year ago and 117 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: just make this go away so that that body worn 118 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: footage would never appear. 119 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,679 Speaker 4: Well, not only would that body worn footage never appeared, 120 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 4: we would never have known about the case because when 121 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 4: it appeared in Wimbledon Magistrates Court, it had not made 122 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 4: the media. People were not aware of it and it 123 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 4: would have just quietly gone away. I think perhaps she 124 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 4: was receiving legal advice that if she had accepted a 125 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 4: cause or accepted a guilty plead, she would have been 126 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 4: slapped across the risk and given a fine, maybe some 127 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 4: community service at worst. That it could impact on her 128 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 4: ability to travel around the world. So maybe she felt 129 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 4: that her career could be affected if she had some 130 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 4: kind of criminal record in that sense, and so she 131 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 4: also going to the Crown Court. She's before a jury 132 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 4: and in the meantime, she had also tried to have 133 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 4: the case thrown out of court because of the extra 134 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 4: evidence that the Crown Prosecution Service had sought to get 135 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 4: further statements from people involved in the case. They were 136 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 4: accusing the police of abusive process and wanted it thrown out. 137 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 4: Now we couldn't report that at the time it was 138 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 4: under quite heavy reporting restrictions, but now that the jury 139 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 4: has made its verdict we can now report on this. 140 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 4: So she was trying to get the case thrown out 141 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: so no one would know about it, and it was 142 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: a bit of a lottery for her. So in the 143 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 4: end she had to turn up in court. We all 144 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 4: saw that footage, but she does not have a criminal 145 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 4: record at all. 146 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: Coming up, What will sponsors and football bosses make of Ker? 147 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: Now you've covered sport for many years. You've got to 148 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: know the most famous athletes in the world. She has 149 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: sponsorships as well as contracts with Chelsea of course, and 150 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: with the Matildas. How do you think this will affect 151 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: her bankability and her reputation, her ability to make a 152 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: living apart from just by scoring goals. 153 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 4: I think in the short term there won't be any 154 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 4: impact at all because the current sponsors will honor their contracts. 155 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: I think what will happen is down the track that 156 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 4: you'll find new sponsorship or renewals will be a lot 157 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 4: more difficult. That sponsors will think we can go to 158 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 4: someone else. They'll find other options, and I think that 159 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 4: this will be quite damaging financially for her in the 160 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 4: long term, not in the short term at all. And 161 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 4: I think that she's coming into a different stage in 162 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 4: her life now. She's about to have a baby, her 163 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 4: partner's six months pregnant, and her footballing career. She's been 164 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 4: off the field for a year. She's really got to 165 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 4: prove herself now that she's in some kind of shape 166 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 4: and that she's able to return to her best with 167 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 4: her footballing career. So she's out of real crossroads at 168 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 4: the moment and will be yet to be seen another 169 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 4: twelve months. If we have this conversation, it'll be interesting 170 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 4: to see whether she's bounced back in the football sense 171 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 4: and also just dealing with a new family life. 172 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: Finally, Jack, in your reporting from Britain and in my 173 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: reading of the UK media, I see a lot of 174 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: reports of the policing of language, of the criminalization of language. 175 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: We've seen a prominent columnist visited by police and threatened 176 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: with charges over a tweet that she made. 177 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 3: Now you may have been following the case of Allison Pearson, 178 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: the Telegraph journalist who got a visit from the police 179 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 3: over a tweet that she made and deleted some time ago, 180 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 3: and Essex Police have made a statement saying they have 181 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: reviewed this case, having sought advice from the Crown Prosecution Service, 182 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 3: they have advised that no charges should be brought in 183 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 3: this matter with Is there. 184 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: A climate in Britain now where freedom of speech is 185 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: being curtailed do you think? And is this part of 186 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: that trend or is the Sam Kirk case part of 187 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: something different here? 188 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 4: Well, in the UK they have something called their non 189 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 4: crime hate offenses, where it's perceived that if you are 190 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 4: hostile or prejudiced against somebody on the basis of race 191 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 4: or ethnicity or six suality that you can be recorded 192 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 4: and it's meant to be a little bit of an 193 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 4: alert for the police that to keep track on people 194 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 4: that might be a little bit of concern and maybe 195 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 4: perhaps lean to some kind of extremes. But what we've 196 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 4: found is that the police have been very vigilant about 197 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 4: this and taking it to an extreme that perhaps the 198 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 4: lawmakers didn't intend it to be. So it's been a 199 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 4: political issue. And you've mentioned Alison Pearson, who is a 200 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 4: columnist who was accused of a tweet that she made 201 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 4: in good faith and that's what she believed, and yet 202 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 4: she was deemed to be this could have been a 203 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 4: non criminal hate crime. So it's one of these things 204 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 4: that in the UK it's taken incredibly seriously, the whole 205 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 4: issue of race. But people know this. They know that 206 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 4: if they accuse somebody of an insult and happened to 207 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 4: put a color on it, whether that's black or white, 208 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 4: you're in trouble and it is perceived to be an 209 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 4: insult and it is perceived to be the wrong thing 210 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 4: to do. So I sense over here it's a lot 211 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 4: more sensitive than what it is in Australia. And in 212 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 4: Australia I feel that people would say I'll just grow 213 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 4: a thick skin, But in Britain it's very much seen 214 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 4: as something to be aware of and conscious of and 215 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 4: sensitive to. 216 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Magnet is The Australian's You're a Correspondent. You can 217 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: read all her reporting, plus dispatches from our network of 218 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: journalists around the world, right now at The Australian dot 219 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: com dot au