WEBVTT - The Bolt Report | 20 October 0:00:16.220 --> 0:00:20.300 Some of us have still not learned. This hatred, their hatred, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.620 has gone too far. Yesterday, independent federal politician Helen Haynes 0:00:25.300 --> 0:00:28.170 was allegedly mown down by a man in a four-wheel 0:00:28.210 --> 0:00:31.030 drive and is now fighting for her life. She has 0:00:31.070 --> 0:00:33.630 lost one leg. Surgeons are battling to save the other. 0:00:34.790 --> 0:00:37.930 And like many, I say again, this culture of hatred, 0:00:38.010 --> 0:00:42.730 of denigrating, of dehumanising, of othering our enemies has got 0:00:42.750 --> 0:00:49.360 to stop. Now, that said, today we heard hypocrites, even 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.440 a premier, tell us, yes, we've got to turn down 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:57.100 the political rhetoric, even while some stoked it. Now, first, though, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:02.350 the suspect, before blame is flung around, It's alleged that 0:01:02.390 --> 0:01:05.630 Haynes was deliberately mown down. Here's Home Affairs Minister Tony 0:01:05.670 --> 0:01:09.130 Burke in caution. You may find the details disturbing. 0:01:09.990 --> 0:01:14.920 What witnesses have described is the driver doing a U-turn 0:01:15.580 --> 0:01:19.860 to get into the car park and to ram Helen 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:25.020 against her vehicle, then to reverse and do it a 0:01:25.060 --> 0:01:25.580 second time. 0:01:27.980 --> 0:01:30.660 Thank God for heroic locals who rushed in to help. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.400 these are the true Australians, like the barber who tackled 0:01:34.420 --> 0:01:34.959 the driver. 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.759 It was crazy. I just ran out the front to 0:01:39.500 --> 0:01:41.970 see what was happening. The driver was still in the car. 0:01:42.940 --> 0:01:45.289 The car was still on. I had no choice but 0:01:45.310 --> 0:01:49.210 to take him out of the car because it was 0:01:49.250 --> 0:01:51.890 the right and safest thing to do. He did have 0:01:51.930 --> 0:01:55.650 a knife. I basically just took it out of his 0:01:55.690 --> 0:01:59.370 pocket and threw it away. I just leant over him and. 0:02:01.130 --> 0:02:05.430 Once it was, you know, once he was on the 0:02:05.470 --> 0:02:08.120 ground and he was no longer a threat, I just 0:02:09.220 --> 0:02:14.380 stood with him and, you know, told him that he 0:02:14.419 --> 0:02:15.040 can't leave. 0:02:15.060 --> 0:02:20.100 Now, that suspect we now know is 43-year-old Brendan Nugent, 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.160 who was reportedly too impaired by drink or drugs for 0:02:23.590 --> 0:02:25.870 police to interview him last night. There were also reports 0:02:25.930 --> 0:02:29.170 that he needed a mental health assessment, that he wasn't 0:02:29.450 --> 0:02:30.190 a well man. 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.870 He was very erratic and irrational in his thoughts. He 0:02:36.210 --> 0:02:39.750 wasn't emotionally regulated either. He was more concerned about, from 0:02:39.790 --> 0:02:43.609 what I recall, his passenger door, his phone and his wallet. 0:02:45.070 --> 0:02:47.769 So that is already a warning against jumping to conclusions 0:02:47.810 --> 0:02:52.320 about any motive. But I do add that, speaking generally, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.340 assassins don't have to be sane or sober to be 0:02:55.360 --> 0:03:00.139 inspired by violent political movements. like apocalyptic movements telling them 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.800 they're fighting a genocide or the end of the world 0:03:03.100 --> 0:03:07.280 or some evil worldwide cabal, and it's either them or us. 0:03:09.270 --> 0:03:11.730 So who is this man? Now, to be clear, he's 0:03:11.770 --> 0:03:14.310 just a suspect for now. His motives are unknown. He 0:03:14.350 --> 0:03:17.489 seemed affected by drink, drugs or a mental disorder. In fact, 0:03:17.530 --> 0:03:22.130 the Daily Mail reports that neighbours say he was frighteningly disturbed, schizophrenic. 0:03:23.630 --> 0:03:25.750 And he's also posted in the past that he was broke, 0:03:25.810 --> 0:03:31.090 in pain and on disability pension. That said, Brendan Nugent's 0:03:31.350 --> 0:03:35.450 social media post suggests he is a vegan anti-logger. He 0:03:35.510 --> 0:03:38.070 calls himself a plant person, says the planet would be 0:03:38.570 --> 0:03:41.820 better run by dogs and children. He follows mainly green 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.780 accounts and is also a global warming alarmist. We even 0:03:44.820 --> 0:03:47.540 praised Helen Haynes seven years ago as a politician who 0:03:47.580 --> 0:03:52.810 takes climate change seriously. But yes, he's also chipped her 0:03:52.870 --> 0:03:57.750 for saying that She'd supported logging jobs, asking her, Hi, Helen, 0:03:57.910 --> 0:04:01.930 what was the support given? Nugent's also posted abuse of 0:04:02.030 --> 0:04:06.430 One Nation and the Liberals, but savaged Labor after Israel 0:04:06.470 --> 0:04:10.150 fought the Hamas terrorists who attacked it on October 7. 0:04:10.150 --> 0:04:13.880 And his tweets go quite dark. He accuses Foreign Minister 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.540 Penny Wong of giving Israel impunity to kill thousands of 0:04:17.620 --> 0:04:23.980 children and of allegedly helping Israeli intelligence bomb children in Gaza. Now, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.599 it's hard to work out from all that any motive 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.640 to allegedly attack Helen Haynes. Hard to work out who 0:04:30.700 --> 0:04:33.600 else to blame. There's certainly nothing in this to justify 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.580 Labor today using this tragedy as an excuse to push 0:04:37.620 --> 0:04:41.870 its new bill to control the internet. And indeed, we 0:04:41.910 --> 0:04:44.410 can't even be sure that political rhetoric is a factor here. 0:04:44.490 --> 0:04:48.550 But still, there is in fact in our culture now 0:04:48.770 --> 0:04:53.690 such abuse of And such a frantic pushing of apocalyptic causes, 0:04:54.190 --> 0:04:56.630 which do seem to make it easier for the young 0:04:56.930 --> 0:05:01.410 or the unbalanced to say, I'm excused for attacking other Australians, 0:05:01.870 --> 0:05:05.390 you know, because I'm trying to save the world. And 0:05:05.410 --> 0:05:09.170 it's not just me saying that. ASIO boss Mike Burgess 0:05:09.190 --> 0:05:12.860 today again pleaded for people to cool it, saying ASIO 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.599 has seen a direct correlation between inflamed language, inflamed tensions 0:05:17.900 --> 0:05:21.050 and acts of violence. I have repeatedly put on the 0:05:21.089 --> 0:05:23.729 record my concern about the use of violent rhetoric in 0:05:23.770 --> 0:05:31.250 public discourse. Words matter. OK, so that's the background and 0:05:31.270 --> 0:05:34.420 a caution against leaping to conclusions, much as we'd love 0:05:34.460 --> 0:05:37.780 to do it, to prosecute our favourite enemies. But I 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.160 will say there were three hypocrites I heard today that 0:05:41.220 --> 0:05:47.180 I do want to mention. First is Victorian Premier Ben Carroll. Now, 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.969 he nobly told the ABC, you know, This morning, oh yes, 0:05:51.010 --> 0:05:55.170 this attack showed we should not spread hatred, especially, he said, 0:05:55.290 --> 0:05:56.830 of female politicians. 0:05:57.730 --> 0:06:02.250 Let's look at online hate. Let's look at misogyny. Let's 0:06:02.270 --> 0:06:05.110 look at the targeting of female representatives. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.890 Yet just moments later, Ben Carroll himself did exactly what 0:06:09.940 --> 0:06:13.300 he warned against by spreading a nasty lie about One 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:14.720 Nation leader Pauline Hanson. 0:06:14.740 --> 0:06:17.040 Do you say Pauline Hanson's racist? 0:06:18.779 --> 0:06:22.800 I do believe saying that there are no good Muslims 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.020 is as racist as you can get. Saying there are 0:06:26.060 --> 0:06:29.950 no good Muslims is racist and that needs to be 0:06:29.970 --> 0:06:33.650 called out. How could there be any other interpretation? 0:06:35.270 --> 0:06:39.110 Well, there is another interpretation. In fact, Hansa did not say, quote, 0:06:39.370 --> 0:06:42.930 there are no good Muslims. She instead asked how you 0:06:42.950 --> 0:06:45.740 could be sure which Muslims here would or will not 0:06:45.980 --> 0:06:49.849 become radicalised. Now, it's true, I said at the time, 0:06:49.930 --> 0:06:52.789 she put it very clumsily, but I did confirm with 0:06:52.830 --> 0:06:55.630 her what seemed to me her obvious meaning when she 0:06:55.690 --> 0:06:57.730 said this half a year ago. 0:06:57.750 --> 0:07:03.349 I've got no time for the radical Islam. Their religion 0:07:03.450 --> 0:07:07.000 concerns me because what it says in the Quran, you say, oh, well, 0:07:07.020 --> 0:07:08.260 there's good Muslims out there. 0:07:08.300 --> 0:07:08.940 Well, I'm sorry. 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.840 How can you, you know, tell me there are good Muslims? 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:19.780 So, Ben Carroll, you should cool it yourself. Now, unbelievably, 0:07:19.980 --> 0:07:23.340 that ABC host he was talking to, Raph Epstein, then 0:07:23.430 --> 0:07:26.950 invited on the show notorious race baiter Senator Lydia Thorpe 0:07:27.470 --> 0:07:30.610 to complain about people who preach division and hatred. 0:07:31.590 --> 0:07:36.110 There's so much hate out there that we need to 0:07:36.150 --> 0:07:42.080 address that as a country to stop this violence and hate. 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.180 I want to bring this country together. I want to 0:07:44.220 --> 0:07:45.040 heal this country. 0:07:46.790 --> 0:07:51.100 What a shameless hypocrite. Not once did Epstein call Thorpe 0:07:51.220 --> 0:07:56.880 out for having herself physically menaced a women's rights campaign 0:07:56.900 --> 0:08:00.660 that she wanted to shut down, for having yelled abuse 0:08:00.980 --> 0:08:04.010 at the King, accusing him even of wiping out Aborigines 0:08:04.430 --> 0:08:08.890 in a genocide, and for declaring war in Australia on 0:08:08.930 --> 0:08:18.840 Australia Day. This is a war! They are still killing us! 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.170 They are still stealing our babies! 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:37.350 They are killing our men! And they are still raping 0:08:37.550 --> 0:08:45.850 our women! That's the ABC's healer today. And to my 0:08:45.929 --> 0:08:50.510 final example of hypocrisy, it's Cheek Media's Hannah Ferguson, who 0:08:50.550 --> 0:08:53.360 today told the rest of us to turn down the temperature. 0:08:54.250 --> 0:08:56.300 I think when we're talking about turning the temperature down, 0:08:56.340 --> 0:08:58.720 I think healthy debate and respectful discourse is a big 0:08:58.760 --> 0:08:59.300 part of that. 0:09:01.860 --> 0:09:05.360 But when Christian activist and Trump supporter Charlie Kirk was assassinated, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.800 this very same Hannah Ferguson wrote, is violence sometimes necessary? 0:09:10.700 --> 0:09:11.060 Yes. 0:09:12.290 --> 0:09:14.130 And she went on, am I glad Charlie Kirk will 0:09:14.170 --> 0:09:15.929 no longer spread his extremist messaging? 0:09:16.270 --> 0:09:16.630 Yes. 0:09:17.110 --> 0:09:18.630 Am I happy that someone shot him in the neck 0:09:18.950 --> 0:09:22.310 in broad daylight? No. Is this act of political violence 0:09:22.350 --> 0:09:26.280 an act of progress? No. But, she added, do I 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:31.420 understand and respect many of the progressives who disagree with me? 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:32.600 Oh, yes. 0:09:33.820 --> 0:09:36.100 And she's now lecturing us to turn down the hatred. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.870 It is true. We do need to face justice. the 0:09:40.929 --> 0:09:44.720 fact that we need more civility in debate. But to 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.900 get that, we must all call out the hate preachers, 0:09:48.220 --> 0:09:51.079 even when they now tell us, oh, the hate's gone 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:57.070 too far. Especially now, when tonight a good and gentle 0:09:57.110 --> 0:10:01.800 woman lies in hospital fighting for life for the crime 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:10.880 of being a politician? Last night I called out Pauline 0:10:10.900 --> 0:10:14.770 Hanson for defending a grossly offensive attack on fellow Senator 0:10:15.150 --> 0:10:18.210 Jackie Lambie. I said I was disgusted. by her party's 0:10:18.370 --> 0:10:22.710 Please Explain cartoon, cruelly mocking Lambie's medical condition, one that 0:10:22.750 --> 0:10:26.890 many women would have found embarrassing to even mention. And 0:10:26.929 --> 0:10:29.430 today Hanson seems to have belatedly agreed. 0:10:30.470 --> 0:10:33.610 The video went up without my actually seeing it and 0:10:33.870 --> 0:10:36.010 I was not aware of the content of the video. 0:10:36.500 --> 0:10:39.839 I have spoken to the creator of that video. I've 0:10:40.059 --> 0:10:45.010 asked him to actually change it. and I respect people's 0:10:45.070 --> 0:10:50.429 views and opinions out there, and it wasn't as tastefully 0:10:50.470 --> 0:10:53.170 done as it could have been, and I do apologise 0:10:53.230 --> 0:10:53.630 for that. 0:10:54.170 --> 0:10:56.250 And were you and Barnaby Joyce, given it's really got 0:10:56.530 --> 0:10:58.500 your name on it, will you be watching these things 0:10:58.550 --> 0:10:59.500 now before they go out? 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.160 I will have a closer look over at Kieran. It 0:11:05.179 --> 0:11:08.020 does bear my name, and I've got to take responsibility 0:11:08.100 --> 0:11:08.480 for that. 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.720 Well, big tick for an apology. Many wouldn't apologise when 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.320 they'd been caught like that, but good on her. But 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.459 I do hope that Hanson now does stop her cartoon 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.819 from calling Liberal frontbencher Andrew Hastie, a former SAS captain, 0:11:25.179 --> 0:11:29.120 a traitor, a disgusting and shocking slur of a veteran 0:11:29.340 --> 0:11:34.120 who must now live with extra security. On the other hand, 0:11:34.540 --> 0:11:36.590 it has to be said, Hanson is herself probably the 0:11:36.620 --> 0:11:40.589 most threatened woman in Parliament. Moshe lied about and today 0:11:40.630 --> 0:11:44.580 called out another of these cool-it hypocrites, in her opinion 0:11:44.620 --> 0:11:46.080 at least, Anthony Albanese. 0:11:47.220 --> 0:11:49.800 It was just a few weeks ago. You know, he's 0:11:49.820 --> 0:11:53.020 putting out a dirt file on Helen. And what he 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.620 said about her, because she questioned about the money going 0:11:55.660 --> 0:11:59.530 to the Merrifield golf course. And so he's, you know, 0:11:59.750 --> 0:12:04.710 the dirt file that the Labor put on many politicians and, 0:12:04.830 --> 0:12:08.949 you know, who may go against the Albanese Labor government, 0:12:09.050 --> 0:12:12.030 what they're doing, is wrong. And for him to stand 0:12:12.100 --> 0:12:17.000 up today and say how wonderful person she is, well, PM, PM, 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.520 You have a look at it. You say to tone 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.439 it down. Well, then I'll tell the PM, you tone 0:12:22.460 --> 0:12:25.800 it down. Get rid of your dirt file that goes 0:12:25.940 --> 0:12:30.420 on against parliamentarians, including my party, which I'm constantly dealing 0:12:30.460 --> 0:12:31.470 with all the time. 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.120 It comes from the top. 0:12:33.630 --> 0:12:34.870 Tone it down yourself. 0:12:37.450 --> 0:12:39.709 Yes, there was a dirt file and it asked reporters 0:12:39.730 --> 0:12:42.650 to check if Haynes was had, for instance, any links 0:12:42.690 --> 0:12:45.010 to people at a local art gallery that she wanted 0:12:45.130 --> 0:12:49.170 funded by government without offering any evidence that she had. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.359 It was just the smear. Joining me is our Tuesday regular, 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.120 Matt Canavan, the Nationals leader. Matt, great to see you. Now, 0:12:55.140 --> 0:12:58.880 to be fair, I cannot say that Albanese is personally 0:12:58.940 --> 0:13:03.939 abusive to political opponents. Oh, he's just walked off. I'm 0:13:03.980 --> 0:13:09.800 afraid that... Oh, he's back now. Matt, great to see 0:13:09.830 --> 0:13:14.449 you back. Look, I've got to say, I can't say 0:13:14.490 --> 0:13:18.370 that Albanese is personally abusive to political opponents and I'm 0:13:18.390 --> 0:13:21.110 not sure at all that dirt files like that incite violence. 0:13:21.530 --> 0:13:23.890 A lot of finger pointing, though, going on around after 0:13:23.929 --> 0:13:27.480 this shocking, shocking attack on Helen Haynes, Matt. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.240 Look, my main thoughts in the last 24 hours, Andrew, 0:13:34.260 --> 0:13:38.580 have just been about Helen, how horrific and shocking this is, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.719 it has shocked the political class because you couldn't meet 0:13:41.740 --> 0:13:44.940 a nicer lady than Helen Haynes and the world is 0:13:44.980 --> 0:13:47.880 cruel and unfair and no one deserves this but all 0:13:47.900 --> 0:13:49.860 of us, as I say, are shocked that it's happened 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.730 to her. We just hope and pray that she pulls 0:13:53.750 --> 0:13:56.490 through this as best as possible given the horrific nature 0:13:56.510 --> 0:14:01.309 of what's occurred. Look, I'm not going to contribute to 0:14:01.890 --> 0:14:04.870 pointing the finger to anyone. I don't think you can 0:14:04.910 --> 0:14:07.290 explain events like this in that sort of way. As 0:14:07.330 --> 0:14:09.790 I say, the world is cruel. Sometimes unfair things happen, 0:14:10.170 --> 0:14:17.859 terrible things happen. And we have a robust political system. Look, 0:14:17.900 --> 0:14:20.560 we all should use some common sense and decency as 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.180 we do that, but one thing that I'm very proud 0:14:24.220 --> 0:14:27.910 and cherish about Australia is we have a robust political system. 0:14:27.970 --> 0:14:31.650 We can have fairly willing debates from time to time 0:14:31.670 --> 0:14:33.330 and then you can share a beer with someone afterwards. 0:14:34.010 --> 0:14:36.950 It's always been my approach to politics and I think 0:14:36.970 --> 0:14:38.950 we should play tough and hard on the field because 0:14:39.010 --> 0:14:42.180 that's what we owe our system and it's only through 0:14:42.220 --> 0:14:46.040 that adversarial robust debate that we come to better decisions 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.500 and outcomes for our country. But then you should be 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.280 able to compartmentalise that and, you know, after it all, 0:14:51.670 --> 0:14:55.410 still recognise each other as Australians and have a laugh 0:14:55.890 --> 0:14:58.930 and get along. So maybe it's that we need to rediscover, 0:14:58.950 --> 0:15:01.310 but I'm certainly not going to blame any individual for 0:15:01.410 --> 0:15:04.130 events like this when we truly don't know exactly what 0:15:04.150 --> 0:15:05.150 happened in any case. 0:15:07.700 --> 0:15:10.400 Very well said, Matt, particularly on Helen Haynes, who, as 0:15:10.460 --> 0:15:13.180 I said last night, and you've said too, is a 0:15:13.220 --> 0:15:15.780 gentle soul. I've never heard a bad word said about her. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.600 And to be honest, I'll say to you, and You 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.730 know I mean it. I've never heard you indulge in 0:15:22.870 --> 0:15:29.180 language that's inappropriate, that casts a..... you know, makes people 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.190 look wicked. You just disagree robustly. This is the point here, 0:15:33.630 --> 0:15:37.650 because there is a difficulty now. Democracy does rely very 0:15:37.690 --> 0:15:40.820 much on debate and even robust debate. And if a 0:15:40.860 --> 0:15:43.500 politician lies, for instance, it shouldn't be out of bounds 0:15:43.740 --> 0:15:46.000 to call them a liar. I see people now saying, oh, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:50.380 it's all terrible. No, Matt, has our political debate really 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.720 been as unhealthy and as dangerous as some are now saying? 0:15:58.180 --> 0:16:00.910 Look, I suppose the issue with that is then point 0:16:00.950 --> 0:16:05.070 to examples. Give real-world examples of where that's happened. Now, 0:16:05.430 --> 0:16:09.070 I just heard you quoted some pretty willing political rhetoric 0:16:09.170 --> 0:16:12.370 from some political players. Again, are we really drawing a 0:16:12.390 --> 0:16:15.960 bow between that and specific events? I'm not going to 0:16:16.010 --> 0:16:19.020 do that. uh look as i say we can all 0:16:19.220 --> 0:16:22.260 sometimes perhaps try and put a filter of common decency 0:16:22.340 --> 0:16:24.200 over it but i definitely think if we go to 0:16:24.220 --> 0:16:27.160 specific examples it's pretty common in political paths and history 0:16:27.180 --> 0:16:29.260 to call each other lies from time to time when 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.140 you've got clear evidence of that happening uh uh there's 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:33.900 there's no reason not to do that i've got a 0:16:33.940 --> 0:16:36.860 thick skin i can cop and take it uh look 0:16:37.260 --> 0:16:39.560 there's also no doubt this sort of weird you live 0:16:39.580 --> 0:16:42.390 in this weird parallel universe there's a as a public 0:16:42.410 --> 0:16:45.970 figure these days, and it's not just politicians. Down the street, 0:16:46.010 --> 0:16:49.370 when you're talking to people, day to day, everyone's kind 0:16:49.390 --> 0:16:51.600 of lovely. And I could count on one hand the 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:57.740 unhelpful or tough interactions I've had with people, and they 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.480 haven't been violent in nature, but it's very rare. Then 0:17:00.500 --> 0:17:04.899 you go online, it's a totally different world. And people 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.920 behind the screen with that remoteness can... can say pretty 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:13.160 crazy and stunning things. Now, again, I think, you know, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.930 drawing that link is... I don't... What I'm worried about 0:17:16.950 --> 0:17:19.230 the next few days, people use this terrible tragedy to 0:17:19.270 --> 0:17:23.850 try and push their own political wheelbarrows, right, on various 0:17:23.890 --> 0:17:24.830 things they want to do about. 0:17:24.850 --> 0:17:25.989 We've seen that already. 0:17:27.230 --> 0:17:31.229 Look, I... You know, yeah, of course. And, again, I 0:17:31.350 --> 0:17:34.109 don't know if you can draw such parallels always to 0:17:34.150 --> 0:17:36.540 this stuff. We are seeing a lot more of this 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.399 sort of vitriol now because it is written down, it's 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.480 in front of us. Was it never there before? I'm 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.300 not so sure about that either. There's been political violence, 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.480 there's been crazy people in all times in history. I 0:17:47.510 --> 0:17:49.450 always try and take a longer perspective on all of 0:17:49.510 --> 0:17:52.369 these things. As I say, the world's an unjust place. 0:17:53.369 --> 0:17:54.930 I don't have a magic wand to make it better. 0:17:56.030 --> 0:17:57.730 All I can do is hope and pray for the 0:17:57.750 --> 0:18:00.410 people who are hurt by it and let's hope things 0:18:00.450 --> 0:18:01.379 turn out as best they can. 0:18:04.369 --> 0:18:09.720 Well said. Full stop. To the economic news today, Matt, 0:18:09.740 --> 0:18:13.500 just quickly, the National Australia Bank became the second bank 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.959 to announce huge cuts in staff. It's going to dismiss 6% 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:22.090 of its workers, 2,500 of them, more than half of them, 0:18:22.150 --> 0:18:25.070 to be dumped before Christmas, which is a very lousy 0:18:25.150 --> 0:18:30.010 Christmas present for those poor families. The NAB boss had 0:18:30.109 --> 0:18:33.320 recently warned us that the economy is slowing down Housing 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:38.669 markets crashing. That's part of this, but there's also artificial intelligence. 0:18:39.510 --> 0:18:41.830 And now we see the results. Is this a one-off, 0:18:41.850 --> 0:18:43.169 do you think, or an omen? 0:18:46.770 --> 0:18:50.990 Look, I'm very concerned where our broader economic environment is 0:18:51.109 --> 0:18:53.030 at right now. And I've been saying for a while, 0:18:53.109 --> 0:18:55.199 I think jobs are about to come back on the agenda. 0:18:55.220 --> 0:19:00.080 We've been through a period of extremely low unemployment. But 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.320 the weakness in our broader economy has been evident for 0:19:02.340 --> 0:19:04.060 some time, and I think a lot of businesses have 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.140 held off. They want to keep good staff. It's a 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.199 tight labour environment, so you don't want to lose people. 0:19:08.660 --> 0:19:10.949 But there's only so much businesses can bear, and it's 0:19:11.070 --> 0:19:13.629 very unfortunate for people just before Christmas to be facing 0:19:13.930 --> 0:19:16.490 these circumstances. It's why we need a government to be 0:19:16.510 --> 0:19:19.609 focused on the economy again. We particularly need to be 0:19:19.630 --> 0:19:24.230 focused on our shockingly poor productivity performance. Now, the government 0:19:24.260 --> 0:19:26.580 convened a roundtable a year ago, where they admitted. 0:19:28.260 --> 0:19:31.140 Said to everyone that they would focus on productivity. There's 0:19:31.180 --> 0:19:33.420 just been no follow through and things have gotten worse, 0:19:33.660 --> 0:19:37.530 not better. Any proper investigation of why we're in this 0:19:37.550 --> 0:19:42.190 situation has to centre around the high levels of regulation, 0:19:42.430 --> 0:19:45.690 the high energy prices that persist now in our economy. 0:19:46.109 --> 0:19:49.149 And the government's basically waved a white flag on energy prices. 0:19:49.690 --> 0:19:51.740 They've given up they're not they're going to just do 0:19:51.780 --> 0:19:53.120 more of the same which has led to very high 0:19:53.140 --> 0:19:56.740 energy prices relying on intermittent weather for our power needs 0:19:56.780 --> 0:19:58.959 and I've nearly had to move here before because the 0:19:58.980 --> 0:20:01.239 clouds are out here in Coffs Harbour we haven't got 0:20:01.260 --> 0:20:04.020 much sun today we can't have an energy system like 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.120 this in a productive economy we've got to make sure 0:20:06.140 --> 0:20:08.730 we get back to making tough hard decisions again right 0:20:09.420 --> 0:20:11.679 You know, you can't have your cake and eat it. 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:12.790 Matt, you don't need to tell me. 0:20:12.810 --> 0:20:14.609 We're in this mess because we thought we could pursue 0:20:14.700 --> 0:20:17.110 net zero and have a strong economy. We were told 0:20:17.130 --> 0:20:20.050 these lies. They were lies. And we've got to call 0:20:20.070 --> 0:20:23.390 them out now. They're lies. Hold hard facts so people 0:20:23.410 --> 0:20:24.290 can keep their jobs. 0:20:26.810 --> 0:20:29.649 And so speaks a former member of the Productivity Commission 0:20:29.670 --> 0:20:32.989 who probably knows better than most. Matt Canavan, thank you 0:20:33.010 --> 0:20:36.040 so much for your time. After the break, Donald Trump's 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.869 former spokesman and how the president picked such a disaster 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:43.830 for his new spokesman, new spokeswoman, fired after five days. 0:20:48.270 --> 0:20:52.989 America knows all about political assassinations and assassination attempts, and 0:20:53.050 --> 0:20:56.790 it's not that new. President Abraham Lincoln shot dead 162 0:20:56.790 --> 0:21:02.470 years ago. President James Garfield, shot dead. President William McKinley, 0:21:02.609 --> 0:21:06.689 shot dead. President John F. Kennedy, shot dead. President Ronald Reagan, 0:21:06.750 --> 0:21:10.070 shot but survived. President Donald Trump, shot in the ear 0:21:10.410 --> 0:21:14.450 but survived. And that is just the presidents. Joining me 0:21:14.490 --> 0:21:17.840 is Sean Spicer, Donald Trump's first White House spokesman, and 0:21:17.859 --> 0:21:20.580 now our regular Tuesday commentator. Spoke to him a short 0:21:20.619 --> 0:21:24.840 while ago. Sean Spicer, great to see you again. Look, 0:21:25.700 --> 0:21:28.930 we've just had a politician, Helen Haynes, moaned down by 0:21:28.950 --> 0:21:31.020 a car. We're not used to this kind of thing, 0:21:31.410 --> 0:21:35.399 although we did have a federal opposition leader wounded in 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:39.720 a shooting attempt in 1966, later a New South Wales 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:46.370 state politician assassinated. But obviously America's had a far longer 0:21:46.590 --> 0:21:52.629 and more serious history of political hits, assassinations. How's it 0:21:52.650 --> 0:21:56.609 changed your politics and has the threat actually got worse? 0:21:58.490 --> 0:22:00.629 Well, in fact, the director of the Secret Service, a 0:22:00.650 --> 0:22:03.620 guy by the name of Sean Curran, who actually was 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.040 the agent that stood next to President Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania, 0:22:07.060 --> 0:22:10.660 when that last assassination attempt went off, did a big 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.360 interview in the United States last week where he said 0:22:13.820 --> 0:22:16.560 that the threat level has just gone through the roof. 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.889 There's a million reasons for it. A lot of it 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:22.530 has to do with, I think, stuff that people see 0:22:22.609 --> 0:22:26.320 online and get radicalized or get an idea. We saw 0:22:26.340 --> 0:22:29.560 it with Charlie Kirk in the United States. That's a 0:22:29.619 --> 0:22:32.859 long way of saying, Andrew, unfortunately, I think the problem 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.500 is getting worse in America. And it's not just politicians. 0:22:36.700 --> 0:22:39.050 We saw this with the CEO of a health care 0:22:39.070 --> 0:22:42.149 company in broad daylight in New York a year and 0:22:42.170 --> 0:22:44.389 a half ago. The worst part about this, Andrew, is 0:22:44.430 --> 0:22:48.310 whether it's President Trump, Charlie Kirk, the political activist, this guy, 0:22:48.330 --> 0:22:51.790 Brian Harrison, the CEO, there's a portion of the left 0:22:52.590 --> 0:22:56.410 in our country that celebrates it. They'll set up defense 0:22:56.510 --> 0:23:00.949 funds and idolize these individuals. It's absolutely sick and grotesque. 0:23:01.950 --> 0:23:04.399 Look, it is. That is the thing, that people are 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.679 shamelessly now cheering political violence. And of course, you saw 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.689 on October 7, when people, Jews and many of the 0:23:12.730 --> 0:23:16.430 rest of us were mourning the slaughter of 1,200 Israelis 0:23:16.470 --> 0:23:22.290 on October 7, you actually had pro-Palestinian activists saying, no, no, no, 0:23:22.410 --> 0:23:25.770 you know, refusing to condemn it and instead saying, let's 0:23:25.830 --> 0:23:28.490 mourn the Palestinians instead, and include, of course, a lot 0:23:28.530 --> 0:23:31.170 of Hamas terrorists who were perpetrated and who have been 0:23:31.340 --> 0:23:35.879 shot dead. I mean, the whole thing is just disgusting. Now, Sean, 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:41.159 last week, a week ago, you were right. You told 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.689 me that Katie Zachariah... who'd been chosen as the new 0:23:44.950 --> 0:23:50.590 press secretary for Donald Trump, was being very ambitious in 0:23:50.670 --> 0:23:53.169 saying that she could hold a press conference, it was 0:23:53.690 --> 0:23:58.929 essentially her first day, full day at work, at 9am 0:23:59.030 --> 0:24:02.090 when she couldn't possibly be briefed properly just in a 0:24:02.130 --> 0:24:05.370 normal day, let alone for her first one. You were right, 0:24:05.490 --> 0:24:08.510 it turned out to be a disaster. She was nervous 0:24:08.750 --> 0:24:15.040 and she stumbled. Later... Zachariah then was in another controversy. 0:24:15.350 --> 0:24:18.369 She had claimed to be an attorney. That turned out 0:24:18.430 --> 0:24:20.970 not to be true. She was asked in front of 0:24:21.010 --> 0:24:24.450 Donald Trump, you know, where did you graduate? And she said, 0:24:24.710 --> 0:24:31.340 in China. She's now been fired. After just five days, 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.220 what did this say? What does this whole fiasco say 0:24:34.270 --> 0:24:37.930 about White House fitting and whether Donald Trump chooses people 0:24:37.950 --> 0:24:40.439