1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: And started to draw his gun, and Dad put his 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: shotgun in his face and said, dropped. If naees, Clive, 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to blow your head off. Clive didn't move. 4 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: Clive just stood still and Dad repeated the same comment 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: and thought, oh, yeah, the Intel's right. His Clive's just 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: going to be. 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: A bit of a mongrel. 8 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to deal with him. And his 9 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: next move was he was just going to hit him 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: with the butt of his shotgun and take him down. 11 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: I'm Andrew ruled. This is life in Crime. So this 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 2: is the second episode of the remarkable story of Peter Norris, 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: who's just published his book The Bank Robber's Boy, which 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: I find very striking, and he's been kind enough to 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: share some of his stories with us, and today we're 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: launching the second episode, which takes us from his early 17 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: days as a little boy to the middle Stages where 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: he heads across the nuther Boar with his father the 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: bank robber find a version of a new life and 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 2: a new beginning and probably another ending. 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: Great to be back. 22 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 2: At the end of the first episode, we've got Peter 23 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: leaving Beltara the State government institution and finally turn up 24 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: and take you in. You were escorted into a house 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: with your own bedroom that was much better than anything 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,279 Speaker 2: you'd ever lived in before. 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: It was amazing. Where was that, Yeah, that was just in. 28 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: It was cue just out. 29 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: In a suburb. Yeah, nothing wrong with it. 30 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: I was well to do. Yeah. 31 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: So there was Witch Street. 32 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: I don't remember the street, no, No, I just remember 33 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: walking to the house and everything was perfect, and there 34 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: was two boys that had all these belongings that they 35 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: just completely disregarded. And I was just in awe of 36 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: the things that they had, all the toys, all the books, 37 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: all the yeah, all the all the things. And I 38 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: was given a copy of a book called The Never 39 00:01:58,520 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Ending Story. 40 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, by that family. 41 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: By that family, by the mother, right, yeah, just as 42 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: an a. I think it was Heather, I believe. Yeah. 43 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: I think she was kind to me. 44 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was her idea. It was her idea. Yeah, 45 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: it was definitely her idea, and I believe he didn't 46 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: like the idea. So I was made to sit at 47 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: a separate little table in the kitchen, not with the family, 48 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: and when their children got ice cream, you know, I 49 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: sat there kind of with their expectation I might get something, 50 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: and I remember him just shaking his head saying he 51 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: doesn't get any so kidding, so just traded me a 52 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: little bit different. 53 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: That would seem again, sort of oddly. You'd think even 54 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: someone who didn't agree with his wife's decision, et cetera, 55 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: wouldn't do that to a kid. Yeah, it seems. 56 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed a little cruel, but yeah, I just remember, yeah, 57 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: yeah it was. And then this this really unfolded, But 58 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: it was only a couple of days after that. We 59 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: went to a shopping center and he was taking the 60 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: kids to a movie, which again and I was excluded from. 61 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: And we're just walking through a shopping center and I 62 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: saw this man in the distance and just the way 63 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: that he walked, I walked with this and I've never 64 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: ridden up, but I have this little bow legged walk, 65 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: and my dad had the exact same walk. I saw 66 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: this man walking away, not towards me, away from me, 67 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: and I just freaked out and started running towards this man. 68 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: I said, that's my dad and the family. This foster 69 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: father of mine basically just grabbed me by the collar 70 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: and dragged me outside and said, you're embarrassing as you're 71 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: an idiot and it can't be your father he's incarcerated, 72 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: he's in prison, and I couldn't be any sure that 73 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: was him. And went to bed that night and I 74 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: had a bedroom to myself. There was a tap on 75 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: my window. I can't even recall what time it was, 76 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: and went to the window and looked down because I 77 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: was one floor up and there was Dad standing there 78 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: in the same clothes that i'd seen that right, So 79 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: we found me. He was looking for me. I've got 80 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: no idea how he knew where I was. He was 81 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: in the right subject, but he was in the right suburb. 82 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: Pretty good at it, pretty good at it. A few things. 83 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, I jumped down out of that glass. 84 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: Dad caught me in a quick hug, and he just whispered, 85 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: we need to go. 86 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: He just took you, just took me, and you just 87 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: vanished from that place. I never saw them. 88 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: Again, never saw them again. 89 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: How long were you at Heather's. 90 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: I would have been there for I reckon about six 91 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: six weeks. 92 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: It was. It was really her way of doing something 93 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: for sort of a lost kid. Yeah, A temporary yeah, 94 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: a temporary thing, not a that's really a fostering. Fostering, 95 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 2: yeah exactly. 96 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it was then that you know, Dad decided 97 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: it was too hot to stay Victoria, so we decided 98 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: to make our way across an able. 99 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: So it was at that time, right, So this is now, 100 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: you're probably twelve, is nearly still eleven? Yeah? 101 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, not quite twelve? 102 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: Yeap, your dad, as you've put it, your dad got 103 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 2: a car. You found a valiant unattended someone. Yes, he did, yep, 104 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: and that was no problem to him to wire it up. 105 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 2: Where did you leave from? You remember any of that details? 106 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: We were in We're in the city, actually right in 107 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: the city, and I was in a I remember being 108 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: in a cafe. I can't remember the name of the cafe. 109 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: But I think the other thing that I make really 110 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: clear in my book, in my story is just these 111 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: little moments of kindness, and some of them are really fleeting. 112 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: But this was one of them where this waitress, like 113 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: your dad said to me, I'm going to have to 114 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: leave you here on your own now. He was clearly 115 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: going off to steal this Valiant, so I'll. 116 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: Leave you here. 117 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: You and this waitress comes over and said, well, you 118 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: know you want to order you like something to weakness, 119 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: And I didn't know. I didn't have any money, and 120 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: she came back and she had this warm kind of 121 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: blueberry muffin that she prepared for me. In the next minute, 122 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: Dad runs in the door pretty much says, we've got 123 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: to go right now. So I'm leaving the muffin and 124 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: running on the door, but she's this waitress runs out 125 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: with us and hands it through the window of the 126 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: hot car, of the hot car as we're driving away. 127 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: And so it's just these little moments. That's that kind 128 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: of stick and that's lovely. 129 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: And so you're headed west. Remember that road out to 130 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: Balleradu Spaces. 131 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess, and then out into the Nulla 132 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: ball where you had some some beautiful moments but also 133 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: some tough conversations with Dad. This was a really, probably 134 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: a pitiful moment in our relationship. 135 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: You were old enough and intelligent enough and thoughtful enough 136 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: to have sort of come to a few conclusions at 137 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 2: this age. Yeah, what what was that pivotal conversation? 138 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, part of it just came out of me 139 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: being curious and wondering why we were always on the run, 140 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: And I think my mind had ticked to the point, 141 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: will it's got to be more than just minor discrepancies. 142 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: You know, all minor crimes. We're constantly moving states. When 143 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: I said to Dad, you know, just to me about 144 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: one of your crimes, and in some ways I was 145 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: just trying to get e gauge on one of the 146 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: person he was and the things that he'd been up to. 147 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: And this particular conversation, he told me about a bank 148 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: robbery that he performed in Sydney and his role was 149 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: to take care of a particular security guard. Clive was 150 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: his name, and Clive was known to be a real 151 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: mongrel and was going to be the problem security Together, 152 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: they thought the rest of them would just lay down 153 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: when they're told to, but the feeling was that Clive 154 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: was going to be a problem, and Dad was given 155 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: the job in his crew to take care of Clive. 156 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, so Dad just tells it as a you know. 157 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: They walked into the bank battle clovers and shotgun as expected. 158 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: The other two security guards I believe, straight down on 159 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: their knees put their guns aside. Clive, as expected, refused 160 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: to do so and started to draw his gun, and 161 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: Dad put his shotgun in his face and said, drop 162 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: to your knees, Clive, I'm going to blow your head off. 163 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: Clive didn't move. Clive just stood still, and Dad repeated 164 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: the same comment and thought, oh, yeah, the Intel's right, 165 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: is Clive's just just going to be a bit of 166 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: a mongrel. I'm going to have to deal with him. 167 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: And his next move was he was just going to 168 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: hit him with the butt of his shotgun and you know, 169 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: take him down. But then he noticed that Clive's eyes 170 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: were kind of rolling into the back of his head, 171 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: and then Clive pissed himself. And then it was that 172 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: point that Dad he kind of flicked his hand across 173 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: and hit me on the shoulder in a kind of 174 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: a jokingly. 175 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 2: Way when he's telling you this story. 176 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: He was telling me this story, and he said, yeah, 177 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: and you know, and Clive wasn't so bloody tough after all, 178 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: and a bit of a laugh, and yeah, that was 179 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: a really pivotal moment in our relationship because I just 180 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: couldn't laugh. 181 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: I didn't see it. 182 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: In fact, all I felt was just this dread in 183 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: the pit of my stomach and thinking one about it. 184 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: And I was quite a deep thinker, even an eleven, 185 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: that this is a man who's pissed himself in front 186 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: of his peers and also has a family to go 187 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: home to, and the lasting implications of that experience for 188 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: him and his family could have went on for years. 189 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: Awful life and his dad laughing laughing about. 190 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: It, And that was a moment of insight by a 191 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: half grown boy into the realities of what his father 192 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: was and was. 193 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'd seen enough. I think i'd seen enough 194 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: by eleven, well, and truly seen enough by eleven and 195 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: experienced my own horrors at that age to know that 196 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: that's not what I wanted for myself. I wanted far better. 197 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: So this was a point where there was a realized 198 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: that I loved Dad and I would do anything to 199 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: spend another day with him, but I would now do 200 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: anything that I could to not become him. 201 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: You go to Perth and this is the start of 202 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: the rest of your life in some ways right now. 203 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: But you go to Perth. You live in a house 204 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: in Perth and sometominals. Dad does the best he can. 205 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: What happened in Perth. 206 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Dad says, look, I'm on the run. I 207 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: can't earn any money. You're going to have to get 208 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: a job. Yeah, no worries. There was always no worries. 209 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: By this time. I've kind of manage to deal with 210 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: stress quite well as well. Things just didn't worry me. So, yeah, 211 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: that's okay, what do we have to do? So we 212 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: walked into the local k martin in Port Headland. We 213 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: were right now, we've made. 214 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: Our way up now and the underworld is they used 215 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 2: to call. 216 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: It up Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So the two people 217 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: that we were sharing a house with were hiding away 218 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: from something, so and yeah. Dad got the store manager 219 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: and told them that I was fifteen, despite being only eleven. Again, 220 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: with his charisma, said, oh, yeah's his birth to he 221 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: gets packed away in some things we've just moved across 222 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: from the East. I bring them in as soon as 223 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: I can. And I was given a job, and you know, 224 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: initially I just worked, yeah, just as a shop assistant, 225 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: filling shelves and helping customers. And I made the decision 226 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: to make the most of that opportunity for Dad and 227 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: I and put my head down and worked really hard 228 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: and sort of didn't get caught up in any of 229 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: the you know, the bullshit between workers and all the 230 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: other stuff that was going on, and would have only 231 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: been I think five or six weeks, and I got 232 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: called into the office there was an announcement across the lad speakers, 233 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: the Peter Reynolds yep to come into the manager's office, 234 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: Warren's office, and I walk in and Warren said, I've 235 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: got all this, all these feedback forms, Pete, and they're 236 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: all just amazing. And he said, you know, I haven't 237 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: sort of seen anything like this for a very long time. 238 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: How do you feel about taking on the management of 239 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: one of the departments. You'll have some staff and there'll 240 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: be an increase in your pay, and so yeah, absolutely, 241 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: I'd love to take that. And you know, and that 242 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: meant that the little yellow envelope that I took home 243 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: to dad every week had a bit more cash in it, 244 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: which gave us some more choices. 245 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: You're about to turn twelve. 246 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: I was about to turn twelve. Yeah, I hadn't turned 247 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: twelve yet. 248 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: This is interesting and not interrupting the story too much. 249 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: When you think about children at Children's Court until I've 250 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 2: saw something the other day, they've clearly got whiskers and 251 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: they're driving there, some of them. And you was a 252 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: twelve year old offered your own department run. Were you 253 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: really a little child or were you a self sufficient 254 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: independent thinker? 255 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: No, I was very yeah, self sufficient, independent thinking at 256 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: that time. I didn't really bounce anything off any even 257 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: doubt at that point. I just made my own mind 258 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: up and you did and went with it, which is 259 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: probably why I succeeded in this role. And even with 260 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: the management of this department, I just did exactly the 261 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: same thing. The thing that I found was and it 262 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: really hasn't today. He's just a bit of kindness and 263 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: good customer service to people. And that put me above 264 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: everybody else who just was there going about their day, 265 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: not really having a crack, really not really trying. I 266 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: was able to unload a palote you three times as 267 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: quick as anybody else and get back to my job. 268 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: And so again, it was only four weeks later and 269 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: I was handed another two departments as some of the 270 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: other staff had either been fired or had left. So 271 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: I was running three departments before my twelfth birthday. The 272 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: whole team of people underneath me. 273 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 2: This is the got it, honest truth. Where on the 274 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: yep on the bank robber's boy yep? Yeah? 275 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely? 276 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: And what sort of shop was that. 277 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: It was up? Yeah? Wonder so And again you know 278 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: there's a store manager, Warren, who's at the time whilst 279 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: I was eleven, May been in his mid thirties, so 280 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Warren could still be around as well, so that'd be unround. 281 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: Remember, no, I don't well from port Headland, from Port Helen. 282 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: And how did that end up? Well, you can guess 283 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: end up with the low catching up with dad, Yeah 284 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: it does. How did that happen? Why did it happen? 285 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: So what had happened was one of these criminals that 286 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: we lived with from time to time would come across 287 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: and pick me up from work and walk me home. 288 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: I was really wary of this particular person. I'd just 289 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: been paid with my little yellow envelope and Dad always 290 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: said to me, I was a lad to buy a 291 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: couple of comic books. So at the time I used 292 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: to buy the Archie and Richard rich comics, and so 293 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: I bought one each of those and I had them 294 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: under my arm. And this individual came to pick me up. 295 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: And we used to have to. 296 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: Walk across this sort of red dust paddock to get 297 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: to the house, and he stopped me and grabbed me 298 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: on the arm and just I just had this weird 299 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: kind of gut feeling, and he was asking me about 300 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: But there was a girl just Center at Kmart, who 301 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: was nearly sixteen, who took a liking to me, who 302 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: thought I was fifteen, and she kept inviting me to parties. 303 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: I kept saying no anyway, he said, oh, you know, 304 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: have you done it with that Justiner yet? And I 305 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: just felt disgusted by that, and I said, just you know, 306 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: don't speak to her about that. And then we walked 307 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: for a little bit more and he grabbed me in again, 308 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: and I said, what do you want and he said, 309 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: you know what I want. And it was just it 310 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: hit me that this was a sexual thing. So I 311 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: threw my comic books down and ran. And I was 312 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: a really good runner as a youth, despite sort of 313 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: not having much school, but you know, I could run 314 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: like the wind. So I ran home and Dad wasn't 315 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: home yet in this house. So I barricaded the bedroom 316 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: that Dad and I shared, just with an old wardrobe 317 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: and laid in there until Dad got home. And at 318 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: first Dad could tell I was not myself, and I 319 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: didn't tell him, and you know, a couple of hours 320 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: later I told him what had happened. I drifted off 321 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: to sleep and woke up to the sound of breaking 322 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: glass and sort of walked out into the lound room 323 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: and the two males that we shared a house with, 324 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: one was unconscious cross coffee table. The other one might 325 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: as well have been unconscious. 326 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: He was not moving. 327 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: He was on the ground and in a pull of blood. 328 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: So Dad had obviously dealt with that. And then we 329 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: hopped in a car, found somewhere else to stay, and 330 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: I went back to work the next day and again 331 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: had this call over the over the speakers, Peter Ronald 332 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: Peter Reynolds to the manager's office and went, oh, jeez, 333 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: am I getting another department. Well, this is great. Walked 334 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: into Warren's office and there was what ended up being 335 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: there was two detectives flinking his desk. Yeah, the two 336 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: guys had dabbed at in. I can't say for that 337 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: for sure, but yeah, it seems that that was what 338 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: had happened. 339 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: And their code wasn't that strong. 340 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: Their code wasn't that strong. No, No, And then yeah, 341 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: so Warren sort of came out from around the desk, 342 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: and yeah, I expected him to be angry, but he 343 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: sort of just looked at me and just I've just 344 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: got no idea how you've managed to do this as 345 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: a as an eleven year old, and then I was 346 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: taken out to the police car. So I sat in 347 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 1: the car waiting with one of the police and the 348 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: other one was and one of the detectives. The other 349 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: one was obviously dealing with whatever had to be done. 350 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: And Warren came out and he handed me my payslip 351 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: and he said, you've earned this, So he paid me 352 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: for the work that I'd done. And it wasn't until 353 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: later on that night that had opened up that that 354 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: pay slip there was two extra weeks paying there for 355 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: me cash and a little note which I detail in 356 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: my book, had just said, you know money, disappointed that 357 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: our journey has to end, and you'll make a great 358 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: leader one day, signed off by Warren and you know today, 359 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: which is again because of hip, not because of his kindness, 360 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: but it certainly helped that you know, CEO and leader 361 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: to him of one hundred today. So that's quite nice. 362 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: So Dad's been arrested yet again. Yep, you've been bustarded 363 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: as a kid doing a man's job. And so where 364 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: did you go and who took you there? 365 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the police took me there, and just going 366 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: off to a little restpite center in I believe it 367 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: was in Claremont in WA and by this time I 368 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: was starting I've already started, probably earlier, just to get 369 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: this feeling that I didn't want adults to make choices 370 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: for me anymore. You know, even as a state war 371 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: to Victorian government, the choices they made on my behalf 372 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: ended up as poor experiences. So, you know, after I 373 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: think realizing that I had enough of adults making decisions 374 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: for me, and I've been shipped away by the police 375 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: to another restpite center at this time in Claremont, I 376 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: stayed there for one night and then the next morning, 377 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, I just grabbed the belongings I had, which 378 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: again some photo albums you know, Toppen the Turtle, My 379 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: Teddy Bear, and a few belongings for your clothes, and 380 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: decided that I was just going to live on the 381 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: streets for the next few months in Perth, and which 382 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: I did. Went to King's Park, obviously a big expansive 383 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: spot in the middle of a Perth, and interestingly met 384 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: I suppose, not unlike you know this code that I 385 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: said Dad had with his criminal crew, there was a 386 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: whole crew of homeless kids that you normal society wouldn't 387 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: have wouldn't certainly at the time wouldn't have knowne existed. 388 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: And we would steal close off people's clotheslines at nighttime 389 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: to stay warm. We wouldn't wait for their bread and 390 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: the milk deliveries that would arrive at the cafes at 391 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: five six am in the morning before they open, and 392 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: we grab those and steal those to eat and drink 393 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: and whenever there. Certainly myself and another individual we managed 394 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: to rob a nightclub safe one evening that was left 395 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: open and managed to get a heap of cash and 396 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: took it back to this warehouse we were all sleeping, 397 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: and woke everybody up and we fed everybody and went 398 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: in to McDonald's, you know, and we ordered a hundred 399 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: cheese burgers and fifty cokes and all this. And you 400 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: know that I remember the girl behind the counter just 401 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: looking at me as if you know, I was just 402 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: having her on and slapped this cash down on the counter, 403 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: and you know, there was this cheer of these fifty 404 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: homeless kids behind me. So there's this code of you know, 405 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: if one of us ate, we all ate, And to me, 406 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: that sort of still sticks pretty heavily. That you know, 407 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: we looked after each other. 408 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: How long were you doing that? 409 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: I was doing that for a couple of months. That 410 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: was a moment, just a time where I just needed 411 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 1: to remove myself from adult decisions and it was an 412 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: unsafe space to be. 413 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: There was lots of. 414 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: Moments where we had to run from danger, and I 415 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's sort of lots of different cruiser kids 416 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: getting around that some many that weren't as were as 417 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: nice and kind as we were. They were out to 418 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: hurt people. So we managed to talk our way or 419 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: run out way out of lots of different situations. And 420 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: they slept in the park a couple of nights, we did, 421 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: but we managed to find, yeah, an abandoned warehouse where 422 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: and they literally would have been fifty of us who 423 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: just found our little corner and looked after. 424 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 2: Each other and had that end. 425 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: I had this pool to get back to family, and 426 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: I knew that my sister lived in Sheperdon back in Sheperdon. 427 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: Or Tina, Tina, my oldest sister, Tina, who almost killed 428 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: on a motorbike at Indigo before you left Victoria. 429 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. 430 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 2: It's a whole other story. But you telled her thinking 431 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: she was dying. 432 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, the priest came and prayers over and last rites 433 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: and expected to lose it. But yeah, yeah, so that's sick. 434 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: She managed to get permission, special permission to get married. 435 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: So I suppose where my escape was to just remove 436 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: myself from adults, hers was to get married to, you know, 437 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: a much older man. I think that was just just 438 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: a way of trying to find security and safety at 439 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: the time. Of course that didn't last, but at the 440 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: time it was the right thing for her. Yeah. I 441 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: yet decided one day that I would hitchhike from Perth 442 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: to Shepton. So I still gent fair way, fair way 443 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: for a twelve year old. 444 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 445 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: In fact, I had my twelfth birthday whilst I was hitchhiking. 446 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: Really where was that? Yeah? 447 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: Well, I ended up getting caught in Ucla, so I'd 448 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: made my way. But again, talking about moments of kindness, 449 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: I had, you know, one man in his fifties who 450 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: picked me up and took me a fair way in 451 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: the direction that he was going, and before he sort 452 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: of diverted off a different way, he stopped and brought 453 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: me a bag of all different types of food and 454 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: bottles of water and things to take on my journey, 455 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: and just wish me luck. But anyway, I got picked 456 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: up in Ukla by the voice. 457 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: It was your name on a list of Uh. 458 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: No, I actually think at the time it was probably 459 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: just an eleven year old just walking through town with 460 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: he shiking and someone had probably found that strange. 461 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: Though you did look fifteen. 462 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: I did look fifteen, and yeah, yeah, it's quite tall 463 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: for my age, and anyway I look and then yeah, 464 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: the police reported that back to the Victorian government obviously, 465 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: where I was a state ward, and they decided then 466 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: to return me to Victoria anyway, to my sister. 467 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: To your sister Tina, the married one, where was. 468 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: At sap in shepherd And yeah, so they actually allowed 469 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: me to live with her temporarily, so I got what 470 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: I wanted at that stage. 471 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 2: And that's the end of our second episode with Peter 472 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 2: Norris the bank Robert Boy. Next week, in our third 473 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 2: and final episode, we will find out what happened when 474 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 2: Peter got back to Victoria and was reunited with his 475 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: big sister Tina in Sheperdon, which was actually the beginning 476 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: of another beginning, which was probably the real big one 477 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: in his life. 478 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me back again, Andrew, and yeah, look 479 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: forward to coming back and having another chat. 480 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 2: Thanks Peta, thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a 481 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: Sunday Herald Sun production for true crime Australia. Our producer 482 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: is Johnny Burton. For my columns, features and more, go 483 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: to Haroldson dot com dot au, forward slash Andrew Rule 484 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 2: one word. For advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts sold 485 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: at news dot com dot au. That is all one 486 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: word news podcast's soul. And if you want further information 487 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 2: about this episode, links are in the description.