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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 2: Detective see a side of life.

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Speaker 1: The average person is never exposed her I spent thirty

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Speaker 1: four years as a cop. For twenty five of those

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Speaker 1: years I was catching killers. That's what I did for

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Speaker 1: a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer

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Speaker 1: just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: In which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. Today,

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Speaker 1: I spoke to a young woman who experienced things as

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Speaker 1: a teenage girl that unfortunately happened too frequently. A lot

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Speaker 1: of times these things are not talked about for a

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Speaker 1: variety of reasons. Our guest, Koots Trotter, is a courageous

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Speaker 1: woman who was a fifteen year old was a victim

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Speaker 1: of domestic violence by her then boyfriend. Now, this was

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Speaker 1: a period in the life that should have been filled

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Speaker 1: with wonder and excitement, but it was destroyed by a

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Speaker 1: person that she trusted. The fact this type of abuse

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Speaker 1: happened to Anna shows how easy it is for anyone

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Speaker 1: to become prey to these violent predators. She kept what

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Speaker 1: was happening to her secret from a high profile parents,

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Speaker 1: her family, and a friends, but when it became undeniable,

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Speaker 1: she spoke out and made the offender accountable. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: an easy path for Anna to take, but she knew

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Speaker 1: something she had to do. The experience has shaped her

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Speaker 1: as a woman, and today she's speaking out and helping

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Speaker 1: other survivors. As you'll find out with my chat with Anna,

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Speaker 1: she's an impressive young lady. Anna Kotz Trotter, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me Gay.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've looked forward to having the chat. I've done

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Speaker 1: my due diligence and having a look at what you've

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Speaker 1: been doing with your time and what you've been through,

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Speaker 1: and I find it quite interesting. Domestic violence in its

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Speaker 1: form has had a lot of attention in the media

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Speaker 1: of not recent times over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: sadly because it's often results in the death of a

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Speaker 1: partner by a male, but domestic violence I didn't really

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Speaker 1: look at domestic violence in the situation that you went through.

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Speaker 1: And I know that's a feeling that you had as well,

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Speaker 1: But as a fifteen year old girl, when you started

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Speaker 1: to experience domestic violence, it's not the context we generally

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Speaker 1: put domestic violence in. It's normally married couple or people

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Speaker 1: living together and fighting over whatnot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that was one of the reasons

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Speaker 4: why I didn't access support immediately and why I didn't

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Speaker 4: recognize myself as having experienced MESSI once, because when I

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Speaker 4: looked around, I saw that there were young people who

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Speaker 4: are experiencing very similar things to me, but we weren't

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Speaker 4: calling it domestic once. We didn't know it to be

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Speaker 4: domestic violence. And as you said, you know, I wasn't

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Speaker 4: married to him, I didn't have a mortgage with him,

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Speaker 4: kids or anything like that. And so when I thought

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Speaker 4: about domestic once, those are the sorts of things I

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Speaker 4: thought about. It wasn't thinking about teenage relationships and all

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Speaker 4: of the kind of insidious forms of you know, coercive

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Speaker 4: control and domestic ones that I was experiencing at the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, I suppose as well, because you're fifteen and you

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Speaker 1: think you know about the world, but you know zero

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Speaker 1: about the world really at that stage, so it's hard

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Speaker 1: to put there was no reference point for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not a situation where you've been through other relationships

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Speaker 1: and realized, no, this is not what the relationship should be.

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Speaker 1: So I could imagine how confusing it would have been

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Speaker 1: for you at the time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think, you know, it was sort of

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Speaker 4: it's sort of dismissed really easily as being like, you know,

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Speaker 4: young love and it's first relationship and stuff like that,

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Speaker 4: but it was, as you say, it was the first

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Speaker 4: sort of relationship that I ever had, and it was

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Speaker 4: kind of what I thought was normal for young people

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Speaker 4: at the time. And you know, I look at my parents'

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Speaker 4: relationship and other adult relationships around, and I knew that

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Speaker 4: I wasn't experienced that. I knew that that wasn't you know,

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Speaker 4: what it was, but I didn't quite realize just how

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Speaker 4: serious it was because I was so young, and I

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Speaker 4: kind of, yeah, it just looked really different from everything

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Speaker 4: else that I was seeing.

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Speaker 3: And then my friends appears.

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Speaker 4: At my age that a lot of them were also

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Speaker 4: experiencing very similar things, but we just didn't have a

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Speaker 4: name for it. And we didn't identify it as being

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Speaker 4: too messy violence at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I think from an adult point of view too,

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Speaker 1: you're looking at it and dramas in teenage love affairs

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Speaker 1: like I don't want to live, I've broken up with

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend or girlfriend and all that. You put it

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Speaker 1: down to there just being dramatic. You don't really see

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Speaker 1: the situation evolve into something evil like it did with

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Speaker 1: your situation because you saw the dismiss it. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: just kids being kids, learning about love.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, hormones pumping, yeah, first love and first heartbreaking, all

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Speaker 4: those things.

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Speaker 3: And I think there was probably an element of that.

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Speaker 4: And also my teachers, they I've spoken to them since,

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Speaker 4: and some of them were interview for the Australian Story

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Speaker 4: episode as well, and hearing them talk about it, and

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Speaker 4: obviously I was really emotional and I kind of can

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Speaker 4: remember that now, like I remember leaving classrooms sobbing, I

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Speaker 4: remember leaving school, having panic attacks at school, throwing up

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Speaker 4: from anxiety. I remember all of that, And you know,

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Speaker 4: I wonder what that kind of looked like to them,

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Speaker 4: like if, as you said, it was a heartbreak and

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Speaker 4: you know, normal teenage relationships and things like that, and

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Speaker 4: I think some of them probably knew that it was

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Speaker 4: a bit more than that there was something going on.

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Speaker 4: It's really hard thing to talk to a young person

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Speaker 4: about and even if they had asked me, I would

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Speaker 4: have completely denied it. I would have come up with

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Speaker 4: stories to explain it.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about that. But

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Speaker 1: you know why you didn't tell people about it, because

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Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting thing and something that we

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Speaker 1: all should look out for where people at that age,

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Speaker 1: young kids, teenagers don't talk about it. We're certainly in

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Speaker 1: what's been portrayed in the media, coercive control laws coming in,

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Speaker 1: people talking about domestic violence and all that. It's very

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Speaker 1: much encouraging people will speak out about it, but we

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Speaker 1: haven't sort of delved into the younger version of it

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Speaker 1: with teenagers. I watched the Australian story that you referred to.

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Speaker 1: It was quite interesting. And I see you've surrounded yourself

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Speaker 1: with some interesting people. I've saw Harrison James, who is

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Speaker 1: a previous guest on the podcast. I've got to say,

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Speaker 1: and I think when we were chatting earlier on that,

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Speaker 1: I was saying Harrison is one of the most impressive

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Speaker 1: men I've spoken to. He is so smart.

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Speaker 4: He is he's one of my best friends in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're associating with good people with Harrison. Harrison

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Speaker 1: had a situation that those haven't heard it on the

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Speaker 1: podcast where sexual abuse at the hands of his stepmother

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Speaker 1: and quite traumatic, but the way that he articulated that

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Speaker 1: it left an indelible impression on me. And then I

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Speaker 1: saw Grace Tame hovering in your orbit as well. We've

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Speaker 1: had her on the podcast, so I was scared before

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Speaker 1: I got Grace on the podcast. You don't muck around

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Speaker 1: with Grace, but what a fantastic person she is.

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Speaker 3: She's wonderful as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm very, very lucky to know so many wonderful

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Speaker 4: survivors as well. And yeah, my co founder Brenda as well.

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Speaker 1: She's another example, Brenda Linn, who people may or may

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Speaker 1: not have heard, and we won't go into details, but

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Speaker 1: what she went through was just horrific and I've had

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Speaker 1: some communications with her and I'm just amazed by her

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Speaker 1: resilience and strength she is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's incredible.

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Speaker 1: So what a power team you've got together.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been really lucky and pretty much all of

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Speaker 4: the people involved in the Survivor hubber survivors as well,

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Speaker 4: like probably seventy five percent of the people involved, and

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Speaker 4: obviously all the facilitators are all survivors, and they're all

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Speaker 4: just incredible, and I learned something from them every single

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Speaker 4: time I speak to them.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've learned doing the podcast speaking to people like

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Speaker 1: Harrison and Grace and yourself about survivor and that's the

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Speaker 1: narrative that you want out. You don't want to be

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Speaker 1: bracketed as victims and survivors is about moving forward.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think lots of people have lots of philosophies

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Speaker 4: on it, and there are a lot of survivors who

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Speaker 4: will call themselves victim survivors or the people who call

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Speaker 4: themselves victims or whatever it may be. But for me,

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Speaker 4: the reason why I choose to use the word survivor

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Speaker 4: is because I don't want to be anything of his,

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Speaker 4: Like I don't want to be a victim of his.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to be connected to him at all.

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Speaker 4: I don't think about him at all. The Survivor Hub

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Speaker 4: has nothing to do with him. He you know, I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to let him have any credit for what

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Speaker 4: I've been able to do with myself. After the Survivor Hub,

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Speaker 4: so I choose to use the word survivor when I

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Speaker 4: talk about my experiences.

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Speaker 1: It's a mindset, but it's a very powerful and the

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Speaker 1: mindset to have, so I understand where you're coming from.

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Speaker 2: There.

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Speaker 1: We want to talk about your childhood so people get

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Speaker 1: the sense of what you went through. You've got some

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Speaker 1: pretty impressive parents too. You've walked in the shadow of

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Speaker 1: some very How do I describe it? Well, your mum's

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Speaker 1: tenure plabi Sect, a well known federal politician, and your father,

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Speaker 1: Michael Kotstrata, who I think is a fascinating story in

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Speaker 1: what he's gone through. We will talk more about your

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Speaker 1: parents later on in the podcast. But yeah, you've you've

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Speaker 1: got your power friends and you've got your power parents

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 3: I'm very lucky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you might say that, then there's probably things

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Speaker 1: which my parents were this or that. No matter how

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Speaker 1: good your parents are, you always have have complaints against them.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about your childhood. What was your childhood like?

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Speaker 4: That's a good question. I had a beautiful, very happy childhood.

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Speaker 4: I'm I think I'm really lucky to have both of

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Speaker 4: my parents in, you know, doing the roles that they do,

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Speaker 4: because I've been really lucky to meet some really incredible people,

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Speaker 4: like throughout my entire life. You know, that includes a

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Speaker 4: lot of other politicians and a lot of public figures

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Speaker 4: and you know, celebrities and musicians and things like that,

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Speaker 4: people who my parents have you know, known mat through

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Speaker 4: work or whatever it may be. And I've also felt

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Speaker 4: really lucky to avoid gone along to events, particularly with

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Speaker 4: my mum, Like she's always been taking us to events

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Speaker 4: since I was a baby. My first ever protest that

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Speaker 4: I went to, I was probably about one years old,

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Speaker 4: and there's a photo of Mum holding me as a baby,

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Speaker 4: his big headphones on.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it was an Indigenous protest or

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Speaker 1: protest for South it was so Sydney because I saw

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Speaker 1: all these I saw a yeah on you it was.

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Speaker 4: That was my That was the first one that they

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Speaker 4: can remember. But I obviously would have gone when Mum

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Speaker 4: was pregnant with me as well, So it depends where

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Speaker 4: you count it from. And so we've just always been

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Speaker 4: going to things like that. We've just always been so

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Speaker 4: lucky to you know, be really social justice like oriented

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Speaker 4: from birth, and so you know, I think it makes

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Speaker 4: a lot of sense that I became a social worker

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Speaker 4: and that I do the Survivor Hub and the kind

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Speaker 4: of things that I'm doing because I've been raised so as.

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Speaker 1: Soon as a natural progression, but that sense of social justice,

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Speaker 1: it's a good thing to have instilled in you at

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Speaker 1: the very very young age.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, from both my parents as well. They're both incredibly

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Speaker 4: empathetic people. And you know, my mum always says one

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Speaker 4: of her favorite things about my dad is that he's

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Speaker 4: so curious and he loves to meet people and talk

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Speaker 4: to them and ask the questions about themselves. And that's

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Speaker 4: something that I really like to do as well, just

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Speaker 4: to meet people and to learn about their lives.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: The siblings, Yeah, two younger brothers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can dish out on them if you will.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well there's Joe and he's about to turn twenty one,

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Speaker 4: and there's Louis and he's fifteen.

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Speaker 3: And louis my little baby because I'm ten years older

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Speaker 3: than him.

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Speaker 4: And they're both just incredibly thoughtful, warm loving brothers. They obviously,

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Speaker 4: you know, annoy me so much sometimes, Yeah, get on

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Speaker 4: my nerves, but particularly Joe, he really knows how to

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Speaker 4: get under my skin. Siblings, Yep, yep, and they're really

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Speaker 4: good at it. But I just couldn't be luckier to

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Speaker 4: have those two as my brothers. Like they're just gorgeous,

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Speaker 4: and they come to all the Survivor Hub events that

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Speaker 4: we have, and they're so supportive and theyre always asking

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Speaker 4: me questions and they're really involved and just so incredibly

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Speaker 4: supportive of me, which is really I think.

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Speaker 1: In giving what you've been through, and we'll obviously talk

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Speaker 1: about it, but having that support network out important.

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Speaker 2: That is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you must look back and what happened to you

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Speaker 1: was a horrible situation, but the fact that you had

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Speaker 1: that support, that family support, and some people don't have

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Speaker 1: that support, so yeah, yeah, I'm sure you can look

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Speaker 1: at it.

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Speaker 4: I'm incredibly privileged to have had the support that I did,

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Speaker 4: and I think particularly through the court process as well,

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Speaker 4: Like it almost killed me that court process. And my

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Speaker 4: parents came every single day to court, and they have

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Speaker 4: obviously incredibly busy jobs, and they would bring their paperwork

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Speaker 4: with them and do work from the witness room. They'd

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Speaker 4: be outside the room. They weren't like to come in

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Speaker 4: because they were also witnesses, so they'd have to wait

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Speaker 4: outside in the waiting room. And they came every single day,

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Speaker 4: and the court process was I think it was over

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Speaker 4: a month, and they were there the whole time with me.

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Speaker 1: It's painful, and we're going to talk about the court

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Speaker 1: process from your point of view. But I've seen court

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Speaker 1: from my career in the police, how it can just

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Speaker 1: drag on and traumatize victims and that I want to

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Speaker 1: speak to you about that because I think you've made

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Speaker 1: some very valid points about that and what i've heard you.

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Speaker 2: Heard you talk about.

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Speaker 1: So you're a fifteen year old girl, you're at school,

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Speaker 1: you're getting the wards at school.

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Speaker 2: You're a bit of a.

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Speaker 3: Bit of a nerdy, a bit of a nerd.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes nerds can turn out to be cool later on.

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Speaker 1: You look at the nerd and then they become the cooler,

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Speaker 1: cool dude.

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Speaker 3: To worry about being cool, it's okay, I'll.

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Speaker 1: Just you organize a women's day, International Women's Day at

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Speaker 1: the school, and your sense of social justice really came across.

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Speaker 1: What drove you there was that from your parents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think we'd had a few International Women's Day assemblies before,

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Speaker 4: and I think it was a year that the teacher

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Speaker 4: who organized it wasn't there, and I was just like, well,

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Speaker 4: we're not We're a girls school, a public girls school.

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Speaker 4: We need to have an International Women's Day event, and

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Speaker 4: so I organized that. I can't really remember any of

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Speaker 4: the process of it, to be honest, but it's one

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Speaker 4: of many examples of me just doing really nerdy things

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Speaker 4: at school. Like we started an environmental club as well

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Speaker 4: at school, and we wanted to do recycling and things

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Speaker 4: like that, and you know, I was really involved in

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Speaker 4: like debating in public speaking, and I would coach the

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Speaker 4: younger girls at school, and I was always helping out

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Speaker 4: with the teachers and all the extracurricular events and things

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Speaker 4: like that. Would just throw myself into anything that the

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Speaker 4: teachers told me to and just you know, see.

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Speaker 3: How I was really nerdy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you were fifteen when you met the person that

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Speaker 1: bought the drama.

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Speaker 2: To your life. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: Where did you meet him, how did you meet him,

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Speaker 1: and what happened from there.

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Speaker 4: I met him through a friend who was one of

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Speaker 4: his really close friends, and it was just one of

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Speaker 4: those like I think I saw him on social media

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Speaker 4: and he saw me or something, and we exchanged social

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Speaker 4: media and we were messaging online or something like that.

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Speaker 4: Knowing this now it's a it's a red flag. But

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Speaker 4: it progressed really really quickly. It was one of those things,

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Speaker 4: the love bomb Todd love bombing. Yeah, yeah, so it

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Speaker 4: went really really quickly. I was, you know, entirely entrenched,

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Speaker 4: enveloped in his life within a month. Like it was

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Speaker 4: just so quick and obviously now.

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Speaker 2: You know, look back at the flag.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, And I think something that I talk to

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Speaker 4: my friends about Sometimes when I see my friends and

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Speaker 4: I think maybe they're being love bombed, I say to them,

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Speaker 4: I know you're wonderful because I've known you for a

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Speaker 4: really long time, but he's just met you last week.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't know that you're wonderful yet. So his behaviors

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Speaker 4: would make sense if he'd known you for a really

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Speaker 4: long time.

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Speaker 3: But he hasn't had that chance to meet you yet.

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Speaker 4: And that's what I would have, you know, liked to

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Speaker 4: have told my fifteen year old self, Like all your

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Speaker 4: friends and people, they see all your qualities, but he

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Speaker 4: doesn't know you yet. So all of this love bombing,

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Speaker 4: it's it's a way of you know, gaining control over you.

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Speaker 4: It's not a reflection of who you are or anything

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Speaker 4: like that.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting way to look at it, and I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: lessons learned, or you look back and you see that

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Speaker 1: I've always not looking at it from the extent that

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Speaker 1: what happened to you? But I look at we're just

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Speaker 1: when you're making comments on is that relationship going to

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Speaker 1: work or not? When you see someone it might be

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Speaker 1: the other way. It might be the female, or it

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Speaker 1: might be the male that I've just met the best

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Speaker 1: person in the life. We are life partners. This is

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Speaker 1: just a kindred spirit and over the moon in the

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Speaker 1: first week. It might be the rare cases that that happens.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you can also be an indicator that burn

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Speaker 1: very bright and that's going to get ugly when it dims.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, a lot of the time it's control. It's

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Speaker 4: about control.

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Speaker 1: You've talked about the love bombing to start with, how

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Speaker 1: quickly the relationship developed between you.

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Speaker 4: Two incredibly quickly, like it was within a month or

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Speaker 4: two just completely you know, in his life and had

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Speaker 4: met his family and all of his friends, and I

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Speaker 4: was going to all of his sports every week and

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Speaker 4: spending hours with his family. It was something that my

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Speaker 4: parents had a real issue was I would spend heaps

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Speaker 4: and heaps of time with his family, and then I'd

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Speaker 4: stop spending as much time with my family. And it

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Speaker 4: wasn't just a normal kind of spending time naturally. It

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Speaker 4: was like I was with him all the time, and

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Speaker 4: whatever he wanted to do, I was doing with him.

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Speaker 1: So you you became submissive in the way to his

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Speaker 1: needs or he was controlling that classy coercive control type situation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of elements of that,

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Speaker 4: and I kind of felt like I always had to

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Speaker 4: be around him. I don't know if I knew it

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Speaker 4: at the time, but obviously done a lot of reflecting

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Speaker 4: and counseling since then, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 4: me wanting to spend time with him as well. If

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Speaker 4: he's with me, then he's not going to be with

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Speaker 4: the right Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay from a fifteen you look back now at

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Speaker 1: the wise old age of what twenty five? Yeah, almost, okay,

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Speaker 1: at fifteen, Yeah, it all makes sense your thought process that, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll keep him away from the other other girls by

382
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Speaker 1: spend spending time with him. How did he do it?

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Speaker 1: How did he get that control? Was it sort of

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Speaker 1: suggestions or did he sulk if you didn't do they

385
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Speaker 1: wanted to do. What was I know, those type of people, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know how they saw them operate the I'm just

387
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Speaker 1: wondering if he was that same he was.

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Speaker 4: He was the very manipulative, cunning type of person. It

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Speaker 4: started off, you know, with that love bombing, you know,

390
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 4: very affectionate, very loving, lots of you know, compliments and

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Speaker 4: shattering me and with you know, just love and affection

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Speaker 4: and all those sorts of things. But embarrassingly looking back,

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Speaker 4: that didn't last for very long, Like it was probably

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Speaker 4: genuinely only about a month or two. And then the

395
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Speaker 4: other was a different way of controlling me, which was

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Speaker 4: I wasn't good enough for anybody else. And you know,

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Speaker 4: he would tell me all the time that I was fat,

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Speaker 4: I was disgusting that people only liked me because they

399
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Speaker 4: wanted to get close to my mum. He told me

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Speaker 4: that a lot that people, everybody only wanted something out

401
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Speaker 4: of me. So if somebody wanted to be friends with me,

402
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 4: they were just trying to do it for their own gain,

403
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Speaker 4: you know, they wanted to be close to my mum

404
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 4: or they wanted to they either had a crush on

405
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Speaker 4: me or something like that. So it was Yeah, started

406
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Speaker 4: off with like sort of an affection but very quickly

407
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 4: turned into care.

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Speaker 1: How did that go for your self esteem? Because that

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Speaker 1: would be hard at fifteen you having someone pushing that

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Speaker 1: narrative on you. Yeah, well, and it feeds into all

411
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Speaker 1: your insecurities right from the start.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, imagine a fifteen year old girl

413
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Speaker 4: like probably all already insecure about you know, our body

414
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 4: and things like that about ourselves. It was really bad.

415
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Speaker 4: I lost a lot of weight. I didn't eat a

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Speaker 4: lot of the time, and I didn't know that it

417
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Speaker 4: was noticeable. But I remember Mum telling me much later,

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Speaker 4: years later on that I would say something like, oh,

419
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Speaker 4: don't tell him that I ate this piece of cake,

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Speaker 4: or like he wouldn't like this if I did this,

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Speaker 4: And I would say things like that around my family,

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Speaker 4: and I knew. I knew that I wasn't meant to

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Speaker 4: kind of be like be eating. And there were times

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Speaker 4: where he would drive past McDonald's with me and he

425
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Speaker 4: would say, I bet you want McDonald's fatty and I

426
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Speaker 4: would say no, I didn't want it, and he would

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Speaker 4: be like, well, I'm getting it anyway, and then go

428
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Speaker 4: and buy it and then like make me eat it

429
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Speaker 4: and kind of watch me, and I think that was

430
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Speaker 4: just sort of a humiliation ritual for him, just to

431
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Speaker 4: embarrass me. And it was heaps of things like that,

432
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Speaker 4: and it wasn't just about my looks. It was about

433
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Speaker 4: like my intelligence. And he would say I wasn't actually

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Speaker 4: as nice as people thought I was, and I wasn't smart,

435
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 4: and I only got opportunities because, you know, people were

436
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 4: scared of my parents and they gave them to me

437
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 4: for that reason. And it was kind of the opposite

438
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Speaker 4: of everything I thought about myself. And I think there

439
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 4: were times where I would challenge it, and there were

440
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 4: times where I would just it was much easier just

441
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 4: to accept it and just think, well, he's got my

442
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 4: best interests. He wants me to be, you know, this

443
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 4: really good, big person. And a really easy example of

444
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 4: that was if he was talking and I got excited

445
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 4: and cut cut in and said something over the top

446
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 4: of him, he would make me say he'd made me

447
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 4: wait five minutes. He'd time it five minutes on the clock,

448
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,719
Speaker 4: and then I always have to say excuse me, and

449
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 4: then I.

450
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 3: Was allowed to talk.

451
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 4: And he told me that he was teaching me to

452
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 4: be polite because my parents never taught me manners, and

453
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 4: I actually genuinely for a time thought, oh my gosh,

454
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 4: like I'm bad mannered and I need to learn these things.

455
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: I hang with him, He'll make me a better person.

456
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: And I hope us talking about it, like people are

457
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: listening and can look out for these type of things.

458
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: But the classic love bombing ride at the start, and yeah,

459
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: totally the emotions totally out of context with what the

460
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 1: situation is. Yeah.

461
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, extreme reactions to really minor things.

462
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then this attacking your self esteem. And that's

463
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: the cruel thing. That's that mental manipulation that they are

464
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: capable of doing.

465
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 4: And you start doing it to yourself too, Like he

466
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 4: didn't need to keep doing it because I was already

467
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 4: I started to police myself. He wasn't there, and I

468
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 4: wasn't eating still because I knew that I wasn't meant to.

469
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 4: So it really gets into your head, wearing.

470
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: You down, wearing you down, taking away your self confidence. Yeah,

471
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: at any point, and that SUSY's sitting here now and

472
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 1: looking back in hindsight and go, how was I so

473
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: stupid when you were going through all the red flags?

474
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 1: But when it's switched from the love bombing to the

475
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: manipulative and demeaning way that he was treating you and

476
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: the attacking your confidence did at that point in time,

477
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: did you speak to anyone about it or was it

478
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,360
Speaker 1: so personal that you thought.

479
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 4: Well it was I didn't talk to anybody about it.

480
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 4: He also isolated me from all my friends at this point,

481
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 4: so I didn't have My friends were still there in

482
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 4: a way, but they weren't. There was not that closeness anymore.

483
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 4: And he isolated me from my parents too, So I

484
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 4: was too scared to tell anybody. And sometimes I would

485
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 4: realize and you know, I was like, this is wrong,

486
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 4: this is not right. I shouldn't be feeling like this,

487
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 4: and I would crack and I would say something, and

488
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 4: you know, i'd get I would say, you can't treat

489
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 4: me like this. I'm leaving, like this is not right,

490
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 4: and he would just switch back right back to that

491
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 4: love and affection straight away. And I was just in

492
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 4: that feeling the whole relationship. I would have done anything

493
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 4: to get that feeling of love and affection.

494
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's approval.

495
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, So as soon as I got it, I'd be like, Okay,

496
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 4: everything's fine again, and then he would sort of slowly,

497
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 4: slowly move back to that, you know, manipulative, controlling, aggressive time.

498
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: At what stage did he start did he or did

499
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: he start apologizing for his behavior and go I'm sorry,

500
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: I won't I won't do that again, I understand. Did

501
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 1: he he'd find any middle middle ground there or was

502
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: it control?

503
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 4: I don't know if he actually ever apologized. I think,

504
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 4: you know, he may have, like he may have apologized

505
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 4: when he's done really bad things. And I remember him

506
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 4: buying me a bunch of flowers and writing me a card,

507
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 4: and I you know, that probably came with the word sorry,

508
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 4: but that was sort of his way of apologizing. But

509
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 4: I think a lot of it was just he would

510
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 4: just stop using the really like violent, aggressive, manipulative behavior

511
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 4: and just be kind to meet for a bit and

512
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 4: you know, oh like come here, I'm sorry, and he

513
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: would make me cry all the time, and then he

514
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 4: would like wipe up those tears as well.

515
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: So he just he would break you down through whatever

516
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: way of the mental manipulation break you down, and then

517
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: he'd be comforting here, I'm here to save you.

518
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know you laugh.

519
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: At it, but look, I think if you stay in

520
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: life long enough, we've all burning relationships that weren't quite

521
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: right or toxic. But when you look back and think,

522
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: how did I.

523
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:28,719
Speaker 2: Look forall for that?

524
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: But you don't have a clear vision at the time,

525
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: do you. And we're talking, we're judging you as a

526
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: fifteen year old. I wouldn't like people look at my

527
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: life as a fifteen old all the mistakes that you make.

528
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: Was there anything in his circle of friends or family

529
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: that gave you warning? Science was there? What type of

530
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: thing did you pick up there?

531
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 4: His friends actually told me to leave him a lot

532
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 4: of the time, And in the very end of all

533
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 4: of this, like when we're talking about like around court time,

534
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 4: a lot of them have never spoken to him ever again.

535
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 4: And they you know that there were people who would

536
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 4: warn me. They would say like, this isn't right. And

537
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 4: sometimes there'd be excuses, you know, he's really stressed for

538
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 4: exams still, Anna, that you can't experience this. And I

539
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 4: also remember a few times his mum telling him off.

540
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 4: And there was one time he did something I can't

541
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 4: remember what it was, and he used to drive his

542
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 4: mum's car all the time and she said to him, no,

543
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 4: because of what you have done to Anna, like it

544
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 4: was he was meant to drive me home and instead

545
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 4: he dropped me like two kilometers from home and got

546
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 4: me to walk the rest of the way. His mom

547
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 4: found out whether I told her I'm not sure, and

548
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 4: she said, well, you're not using the car anymore because

549
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: you can't treat anna life.

550
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: That's not right.

551
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 4: And she told me that, and she said, when you

552
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 4: feel like you've forgiven him, I'll let him use the

553
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: car again. And of course immediately I said, no, it's fine,

554
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 4: I've forgiven him.

555
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: Okay, just to get the sense of how it evolves,

556
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: because I'm learning stuff from what you're saying here, and

557
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: I think it's a good lesson for everyone on how

558
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: a relationship can start off seemingly well and then go

559
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: bad very quickly. How long were you living for and

560
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: when did it get to the point where, like we've

561
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: got the love bombing, then the manipulation, taking you away

562
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: from your friends and family, criticizing you, attacking your self confidence.

563
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: When did it get to the point where it was

564
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: physical abuse and the things that happened. And look, I

565
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: know reliving it is. I apologize upfront reliving it. So

566
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: you just tell me what you're comfortable talking about. We

567
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 1: don't have to go in the specific details, but when

568
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: that sort of crossed the line to the point of.

569
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 4: No return, Yeah, I can't remember exactly, and I think

570
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: there was a time where I did remember that because

571
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 4: I had to talk about it in court a lot.

572
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 4: It was early on, like it would have been easily

573
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 4: within the first six months, It could have been within

574
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 4: the first three months.

575
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: And it started off really small.

576
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 4: So it started off with things like pinching me, twisting

577
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 4: a teatawel and whipping me, but it would actually leave

578
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 4: like welts on my legs. I found a photo on

579
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 4: my phone a red handprint on my legs that he'd

580
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 4: like slapped me so hard that he left a full,

581
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 4: perfect handprint on my leg The more violent type of

582
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 4: it was at the very end of the relationship mostly,

583
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 4: and that was when I was leaving him and he

584
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: knew that I was leaving him and he was losing

585
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 4: control of me, and so it really escalated around that time.

586
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: The violent actions of like the handslap and all that

587
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: that was his way of disciplining you or.

588
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: Lashing out that.

589
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, he would make it a joke.

590
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 4: It was always really funny, like it was never and

591
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 4: if I was like, wow, you've really hurt me.

592
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 3: He like look at my hand like this.

593
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 4: You know, Oh, you're just you're so like so sensitive.

594
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 4: You're being so sensitive about this. It's a game and

595
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: it's just a joke. And if I said something that

596
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 4: upset him, he'd like kick me off the bed onto

597
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 4: the ground, like if it was sitting on the bed

598
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 4: or something, and just be laughing because you know, like, well,

599
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 4: you've annoyed me, and this is how I get you back.

600
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: And so, yeah, it was.

601
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 4: Pretty much always just pushed as just being a joke.

602
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, games, did that confuse you? And it's like it's

603
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: easy to look back now and go have a better understanding.

604
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: But when you're in the thick of it, did you

605
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: think am I misreading this? Is he just playing around?

606
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: Or is he just being overly rough?

607
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 3: And yeah I did.

608
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 4: I just thought that it was a joke, And the

609
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 4: times that I thought he'd taken it too far, I

610
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: just thought, well, I'm just going to accept that it's

611
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 4: a joke and just move past, smooth over, because if

612
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 4: I say.

613
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 3: Something, it'll get worse.

614
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 4: He'll tell me that I'm being insensitive, or he'll hurt

615
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 4: me worse, or whatever it may be.

616
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: Did it ever get to the point. I've seen this

617
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: with the history of domestic violence situations where the man

618
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: will lash out on the women and then all of

619
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: a sudden they'll come back all remorseful and say I'm sorry,

620
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: I will never do that again. Did it get to

621
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: get to that point?

622
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes, but a lot of the time he just

623
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 4: would say he would just try and make it a joke,

624
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: like sometimes he would say sorry, But he had so

625
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: much power over me at that point in time that

626
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 4: he probably didn't even really to apologize and be remorseful.

627
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: So when you say the power, that's because he's isolated

628
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: you from your friends and family, stolen your confidence, taught.

629
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 4: Me that I deserved it and that I couldn't do

630
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 4: better with anybody else, so that this is what I'd

631
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 4: be treated with anybody.

632
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: So really attacking your self esteem?

633
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 3: Heh Yeah, yeah, I was.

634
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 4: I would not recognize myself at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.

635
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: I wouldn't.

636
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 4: I wouldn't know that that little girl like I was

637
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: just a shell of myself.

638
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: And almost dependent on your happiness depended on getting his approval.

639
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: It sounds like, yeah, that's where you're really stuck in

640
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: that situation because people often say well, why don't you

641
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: walk away from it? But I don't think it's that simple.

642
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: When you're going through it. It's easy stepping back and looking, well,

643
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: why didn't I just walk away? But that's not what's

644
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: going through your mind.

645
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we did.

646
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: We broke up a few times, and it never lasted

647
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 4: very long because it just like the it feels like

648
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 4: your normal heartbreak, right, but probably even worse because you

649
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 4: just feel like you can't live with without them because

650
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 4: they've taught you that you can't live without them. It

651
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: just felt like my heart being torn from my chest.

652
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: So you're waiting for his text sixteen years.

653
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: Old, which had me back.

654
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 4: Or yeah, yeah, well yeah he would come to me.

655
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 4: I wouldn't go to him, and I would choose whether

656
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 4: I accepted him. And when he came back, he would

657
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: always have like a bunch of flowers, or he'd have

658
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 4: a letter, or he would write me these really really

659
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 4: long paragraphs and like text them to me, and they

660
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: were just so loving and affectionate and probably remorseful sometimes

661
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: as well, and they always worked.

662
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: I might read this wrong, and I'm possibly reading it wrong,

663
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: but I always wonder about blokes that always buying big

664
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: bunch of flowers to say, yeah, sorry. I think there's

665
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: a time and place for flowers, but the ones that

666
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: always roll out the flowers and the cards and I'm sorry.

667
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he ruined bunches of flowers for me.

668
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 4: It's associating having done something wrong, no more flowers.

669
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah you did your friends pull you aside like your

670
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: closest girlfriends, did you? Or did you break contact and

671
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: just not talk it.

672
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: I was still talking to them, and I was still

673
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 3: hanging out with them.

674
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 4: I think I was just so all consumed with him

675
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: that I probably just really annoyed them. And I have

676
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: complete empathy for how annoying that would have been to

677
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 4: watch me go back repeatedly to someone who treated me

678
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 4: so horribly and just to be making excuses every time.

679
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 4: And I've had so many friends since who've experienced domesticdvalance

680
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 4: or been relationships where I've been like, come on, you

681
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 4: deserve so much better, And I understand that it's a

682
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 4: bit frustrating. I think they were frustrated.

683
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: I think we've all had that. The friends that you're saying,

684
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: walk away from this relationship, and I am, and you

685
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: sit down and you have a long discussion with them. Yep,

686
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: when it could be male, female or whatever, I'm walking

687
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: away from this relationship and then you think, yes, at

688
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: last they're doing something looking after himselves. And two weeks

689
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: later on now we're back. He said sorry or she

690
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: said sorry.

691
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: It's the failings of humans.

692
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that was really like what was happening.

693
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 4: And then from memory, most of the kind of like

694
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 4: pushback that I got people saying to me, you know,

695
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 4: you should leave him were actually people around him and

696
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 4: they knew him really well.

697
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: I think we put that in the checklist of if

698
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: you're the friends of the person you're seeing this, say.

699
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: Lead leave him.

700
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I saw one of your teachers spoke about

701
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: their concern for you, and the teacher that had seen

702
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: you all through high school so knew the type of

703
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: person and how you were so bubbly and vibrant. The

704
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: men you you became withdrawn in the relationships and that

705
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: was there any avenue to talk talk there or did

706
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: anyone try to reach out to you?

707
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 3: My teachers?

708
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was miss Paramore, who you're talking

709
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 4: about from the Australian story. She was my history teacher

710
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 4: for years. I didn't talk to any of them at

711
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 4: the time. I've since spoken to a lot of them

712
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 4: about it. I have a really close relationship with my

713
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: used to be my French teacher, Miss Chryst Ladies, as well,

714
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 4: and I see her regularly and I've spoken to her

715
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: in depth about it, and she basically is just really

716
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: heartbroken about it. And she also said to me that

717
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: she wishes that she'd known and she could have helped

718
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 4: me around the HC as well, like my exams, and

719
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 4: because that was just a very very impossible time. That

720
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 4: was when the violence escalated and I was still having

721
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 4: to sit down and do these exams. Yeah, and I

722
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 4: got a fine atar, probably a good atar, but I

723
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: could have done a lot better if i'd been you know,

724
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 4: if he'd left me alone.

725
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, your parents, now, your mum, I heard her say

726
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: when she was speaking about what you went through that

727
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: she would sometimes see bruises and you'd make excuses for

728
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: the bruises. Your dad high up in the public servant

729
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: has a lot of life experience, Like they're all people

730
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: that are fairly astute. At what point in time were

731
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: they starting to draw you down and go what's going on?

732
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 4: I told mum two or three weeks after I left

733
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 4: him for the last time. So I told her pretty quickly,

734
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: which a lot of people don't do. And I told

735
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: Dad probably just a little bit after. But Mum and

736
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 4: I were away together for a weekend, just after I'd

737
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 4: finished all my exams. She had a work thing in Adelaide.

738
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 4: So I went with her and we were having dinner

739
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 4: and I told her about it. And I tell my

740
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 4: parents everything. I'm very incredibly open with my parents, like

741
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 4: some of my friends, like, you probably don't need to

742
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 4: tell your parents that, Like, actually you can, Yeah, you

743
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 4: don't need to. But I love to tell my parents things,

744
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 4: and you know, I consider them my friends, like I

745
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 4: share a lot with them. But I did not want

746
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: them to know because I knew if they knew, I

747
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 4: was never going to be able to see him ever again.

748
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: And I wanted to be able to make that decision

749
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 4: for myself. I knew I wasn't ready.

750
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I was wondering because I was thinking

751
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: your parents, and that's the way they come across it.

752
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: They would have that open narrative review. But you held

753
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: back in part because you wanted to have the moment

754
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: you've told them.

755
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 2: You knew that was it.

756
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I waited until I knew it was done before

757
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 4: I told them.

758
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: Okay, because what was going through your mind? Did you

759
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 1: think he's going to change?

760
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 4: Or yeah?

761
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: Clearly?

762
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 4: What Yeah, well he told me he was going to

763
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 4: He would say, you know, he was stressed because he

764
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 4: had his final exams, and then he was stressed because

765
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 4: he wanted to get into university, and then he was

766
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 4: stressed because he had his university exams, and you know,

767
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 4: he had a job interview, and there was always a

768
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 4: reason why he was stressed, and it was always kind

769
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 4: of explained away. And so I think something that a

770
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 4: lot of survivors of domestic violence having common is that

771
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 4: we will always be able to find good in people,

772
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 4: and that we believe in the best in people. And

773
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: I believed in the best in him, and I saw

774
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 4: good in him. I would really, really really struggle to

775
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 4: tell you one good thing about him now, But at

776
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 4: the time, you know, he was funny, so and he

777
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 4: could be kind. He really loved his family, he really

778
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 4: loved his nan. You know, I thought, well, you know,

779
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 4: he's capable of love. But I wouldn't be able to

780
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 4: say the same things about him now anyway. But so

781
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 4: I believed I kind of had hope for him, that

782
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 4: he could be good person and that he could be

783
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 4: respectful of me.

784
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,439
Speaker 1: Well, that's the way we all want to go through life.

785
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 1: You want to look at people and think there's good

786
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: in everyone. Sadly, I'm looking at him. I'm looking at

787
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: from life experience and from a policing point of view,

788
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: and it's a worry. Yeah, it's a worry that the

789
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: way he's reacting. A dangerous time in domestic situations is

790
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: when the partner leaves, and that's always that's sometimes when

791
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 1: it escalates, And there's research that shows that the most

792
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: dangerous period is the time that you leave. Were you

793
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: concerned when you finally stood up to him and said

794
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave.

795
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 4: Well, I didn't know about the statistics, and I also

796
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 4: didn't know I was experiencing DV, so I wasn't concerned

797
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: in that way. But I noticed an escalation in his behavior.

798
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: And I think I talk about this a lot with

799
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 4: people who are leaving messy Valance because I also do

800
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 4: like counseling as as my job, and I have a

801
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 4: lot of interactions with survivors through the Survivor Hub, and

802
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 4: I always say to them. I said, there's going to

803
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 4: be a moment where you can feel that you're not

804
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 4: under his spell anymore, and you're actually just going to

805
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 4: start to get the ick you could, you start getting

806
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 4: getting disgusted by his behavior. And I remember that switch

807
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 4: in me. And it was during my HC exams and

808
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 4: he came over at like seven in the morning and

809
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 4: I said to him, I'm not talking to you. I'm

810
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 4: going to the library. I have an exam tomorrow. It's

811
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 4: really important that I go well in these exams. It's

812
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 4: my final exams. Leave me alone. And he was just

813
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 4: crying and crying and begging and just and I just

814
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 4: looked at him and I just thought, I don't know

815
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 4: how this ever worked. He just looks absolutely pathetic right now.

816
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 4: He just looks so pathetic.

817
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 3: And I just said to him, no, no.

818
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: Leave, and he just kept crying, and I said, okay,

819
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 4: well I'm leaving, and I just left him at my parents'

820
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: house and went to the library.

821
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: I would have never done that before that time, ever.

822
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: But that was that turning point.

823
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sick of you. I'm not feeling for this anymore.

824
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: I can imagine the manipulation he's trying Okay, well, I

825
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: can't live without you even make that type of comments.

826
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 4: Of it, and he used violence against me after that time,

827
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 4: so it wasn't that he'd actually you know, there was

828
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 4: no actual change, because if there was an actual change,

829
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 4: he would have been genuinely remorseful, crying and never use

830
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: violence again.

831
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: Okay, you've told your mom. I would imagine once you've

832
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: told your mom, and I heard your mom say I

833
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: want to kill him.

834
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: Which is a natural reaction.

835
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: I don't think she's in the defense of your mum.

836
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: She didn't intend to, but that's what she said she

837
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: wanted to do. Yeah, and your dad would have been

838
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: told how did you as a family then decide to

839
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: deal with the situation, because I would imagine it was

840
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: devastating for your parents when they found out that you've

841
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: been suffering suffering like this.

842
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 2: How did that play it?

843
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: My parents were so wonderful and that they just knew

844
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 4: to ask me what I wanted to do. So they

845
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: never told me. They had never had any expectations of me.

846
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 4: They never said that they needed me to do any

847
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 4: you know, particular thing. They encouraged me to access counseling.

848
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: They knew that I would that I would, you know,

849
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 4: benefit from counseling. I didn't straight away. I didn't access counseling,

850
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 4: and I was quite resistant to it. I sort of

851
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: thought I'm fine for a few months, you know, immediately

852
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 4: after I had left and I decided with my parents

853
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 4: that I wasn't going to go to the police. I

854
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 4: didn't think I would be believed in the court process.

855
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 4: I knew what vaguely what it was going to be like,

856
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 4: and I didn't want that for myself. But the police

857
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 4: contacted me. They actually first contacted my parents, which is

858
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 4: a little bit bizarre, but they knew them through work,

859
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 4: and so they contacted my parents and they said, just

860
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 4: letting you know, you know, we found out this thing

861
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 4: about this person, my ex, and we're investigating, and we're

862
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 4: just letting you know that your daughter's kind of, you know,

863
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 4: involved in that because she was in a relationship with him.

864
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 4: And my parents sort of started to think, well, you know,

865
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 4: I wonder if an as it experience and to what

866
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 4: extent and kind of you know, I hadn't told them everything. Yeah,

867
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 4: this is really really early too. And my mum called

868
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 4: me and she said, the police are going to bring

869
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 4: you about X. They contacted me and talk to me

870
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 4: about it, and I went in for an interview and

871
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 4: very quickly was told by a very very incredible, wonderful

872
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 4: police officer called Monika, and from there I decided to

873
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: report to the police. Initially really really didn't want to.

874
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's important from a person that

875
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: suffered what you had suffered to feel like you've got control.

876
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: And I think your parents' response was right, because the

877
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: one thing when you've you've lost control and you've been

878
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: abused is then being told you've got to do this

879
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: and got to do that. So it's important that you've

880
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: got control over the direction going to see the police.

881
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: And I always get a smile on my face when

882
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: I hear good police stories that if the way they

883
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: reacted in that, but that would have been traumatic for

884
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: you because if you're making a complaint to the police,

885
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: you've got to sit down, you've got to go through details,

886
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: and they'll be asking you questions and that takes an

887
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: extraordinarily long time. How was the process for it.

888
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 3: It was mixed.

889
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: I think that they did the best that they could

890
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 4: do within the parameters of the role, particularly Monica. I

891
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 4: have nothing but good things to say about Monica and

892
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 4: also another police officer called Tom. There were other police

893
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 4: officers who involved who I think were a little bit

894
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 4: less experience than Monica and Tom, and I liked them.

895
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 4: I thought they were good people. I thought they were kind,

896
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 4: but my experiences with them were not as good as

897
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: my experiences with monicran Tom, which were just like gold Star.

898
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 4: Really they just I you know, I have an issue

899
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 4: with a lot of police. I have an issue with

900
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 4: the police force. And you know, there's there's a lot

901
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 4: of things that I could say, things I could say

902
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 4: about the police, And I also want to recognize the

903
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 4: privilege that I have being who I am, my parents,

904
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 4: being white, you know, being cisgendered and all of those things,

905
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 4: like so much privilege, and that privilege is you know,

906
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 4: a large part due to you know, that is how

907
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 4: I got this good experience with the police. I understand

908
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 4: that it was still the police and you know, legal

909
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 4: and court process. Was it just you know, it almost

910
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 4: killed me. Like it was just the worst thing I've

911
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 4: ever been through. It was so much worse than being

912
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 4: in the relationship. It was just horrific.

913
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about talk about the court

914
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 1: Mather and because I think there's definitely rooms for room

915
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: for improvement in that process. But from a police point

916
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: of view, and now that you've gone to the police that, yeah,

917
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 1: the purpose of making the complaint is that they're going

918
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: to investigate that then the likelihood and that would have

919
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: been explained to you that would potentially gave the court

920
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: and if it's defended, you're going to have to give

921
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: evidence from your personal point of view. So you're seventeen

922
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: eighteen at this stage.

923
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, seventeen, I think, Yeah.

924
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: When you stepped away from him, did life look different

925
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: for you after you've made that decision?

926
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 4: Well, everything, the healing process just gets completely put on

927
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: pause when you're in court. And so I would say

928
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: that I didn't begin to heal or recover for like

929
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 4: probably three years after I left him, and I even

930
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 4: you know, I don't have a lot of memories of

931
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 4: a lot of time around that because I just was

932
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 4: completely in survival.

933
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: It makes me say, because that's an exciting time of

934
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: anyone's life, isn't it.

935
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 4: The first year of UNI, you're graduating, you've.

936
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: Got the freedom, you're coming out in the world.

937
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 2: Is just how good?

938
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: Since yeah, there will have been portions of that that

939
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: you missed because of what you've been through. Yeah.

940
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 4: I had a gap year and I went on a

941
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 4: holiday and the police were bringing me through my holiday.

942
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 4: I was in Europe, you know, solo traveling, and I

943
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 4: was getting caught like and every time no coler idea

944
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 4: would pop up on my phone and you just feel

945
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 4: so sick. It's just a universal survivor experience. You just

946
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 4: feel so sick. And it was always like police courts.

947
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 4: I'd be checking emails the whole time. You know, can

948
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 4: you come back early? We want to do court now,

949
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 4: will you.

950
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 3: It's just everything what you want? No, no, no, and.

951
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 4: Freshly eighteen, just trying to enjoy my independence and be

952
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 4: a young person and I have this huge legal process

953
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: like looming over.

954
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 3: It was horrific.

955
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: It takes away from it, doesn't it.

956
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, we might take a break now. When we come

957
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: back for part two, I want a talk in depth

958
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: about the court experience because I think we haven't got

959
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: it right completely in the courts, and with people talk

960
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: about it, maybe other people might start to listen talk

961
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: about And it's quite interesting how the genesis of what

962
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: the Survivor Hub was formed. And I tell I want

963
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: you to tell me that story about where you met

964
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: Beckett out the front the court, and other things that

965
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: you're doing. I hear that you're even well. I was

966
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: listening to you. It was a conference for one of

967
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: a better word, but talking about restorative justice and different things.

968
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: So so much, too, so much to talk about. So

969
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: we'll have a break. I apologize for making you relive

970
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: a bad period of your life, but I think it's

971
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: important that we are talking about it because I'm learning

972
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: things from you in just in this chat that we're having. Now.

973
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so chathing it's important.

974
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: Back shortly