1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: From the newsroom and news to come. 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 2: Today, okoday, They're right, Andrew Bucklow, and I'll be working 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: here at news dot com dot A for eleven long years, 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: and let me tell you, in that time, I've seen 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 2: our team. 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: Of reporters break some pretty wild stories. 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 2: Are international incidents, celebrity debts, election upset, sporting scandals. What 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: I'm getting at is it takes a lot to shock me. Okay, 9 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: but every now and then one of my colleagues does 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: an interview that blows me away. 11 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: And that is exactly what's happened today. 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: One of our team members landed an exclusive chat with 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: an actual overseas scammer, a man who posed as a 14 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: woman online to trick ossies out of their hard earned money. 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: Have a little listen to this. 16 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 3: Many people get skeptical. They wanted to see the girl, 17 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: So we had a model on the premise. Whatever a 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: victim to say to want to chat or make sure 19 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 3: that we're real. We go to this model and we 20 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 3: asked her to doctor this victim for blake a few circuits. 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? 22 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: They had an actual model in the office to convince 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: people they weren't scammers. This is a draw dropping interview. 24 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: That's hard to say daw dropping. Yet there we go. 25 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: It's coming up for you in just a moment. I'm 26 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: joined in the studio by Alex Turner Cohen, who we 27 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: call ATC in the office. She's one of news dot 28 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: com dot to use investigative reporters, and Heaven STEVETSI, I 29 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: don't want to build this up too much, Yes I do. Actually, 30 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: she has got a crack over story today she got 31 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: an interview with an actual scammer ATC. How did you 32 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: get onto this bloke? 33 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 4: Well, I was really interested to talk to someone, you know, 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 4: one of these faceless, evil people I guess on the 35 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 4: other side of the phone who were ripping assies out 36 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 4: of their life savings, and you know, I thought that 37 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 4: would be just a really interesting perspective to understand why 38 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: these people do what they do. So I had a 39 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 4: few contacts in these kind of cybersecurity private investigation firms, 40 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 4: and I reached out to them and said, do you 41 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: know anyone who I could talk to who's a scammer? 42 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 4: And funnily enough, they came back and said. 43 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: Yes, Jack Bart, just as you do. 44 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 4: You know, just an ordinary colleague for them, I guess, 45 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 4: But yeah, There was one scammer who I was trying 46 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 4: to talk to who is currently active in a scamming 47 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 4: center in Estonia, but he declined because he didn't want 48 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 4: to risk his identity being revealed. Fair enough, Yeah, I 49 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 4: don't begrudge him that. But we did manage to track 50 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 4: down a now twenty three year old guy from the 51 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 4: Middle East. He was twenty one at the time. He 52 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 4: was working as a scammer, and he was happy to 53 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 4: talk provided his voice is distorted because he's actually working 54 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 4: a proper, legitimate job now and he doesn't want his 55 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 4: colleagues or boss to realize what he. 56 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: Used to do. What can you tell me about this guy? Yes? 57 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 4: So he was twenty one at the time, incredibly young. 58 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 4: He had just fled the Syrian Civil War and had 59 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 4: tried to get a start a new life for himself 60 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 4: in Dubai, and instead he actually found himself tricked into 61 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 4: becoming a full time scammer for money. 62 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: Far out all right, Well, where about to hear your 63 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 2: interview with him? Where was he when I recorded this interview? 64 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 4: So he's still in Dubai. We could actually hear the 65 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 4: sounds of Dubai street coming out of the window, so 66 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 4: I do apologize if you hear a few car horns honking. 67 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 4: But yeah, he spoke to me in Dubai. We figured 68 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 4: out the time difference, and he's still there. That was 69 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 4: where he was working as a scammer. He's still based 70 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 4: in the city, but in a more legitimate role. 71 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: He tells me, anyway, or a young fella named Beard, 72 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: we have as Atac said, distorted his voice, let's have 73 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: a listen to this call. 74 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: Now. 75 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: I didn't know the police was supposed to be a scam. 76 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: I thought it was like a real job, and I 77 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: joined thinking that it's some sort of advertising job. But 78 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: when I joined just in the same day, I realized 79 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: that it wasn't. They told me that you sit here, 80 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: he pretend to be a girl, and you tried to 81 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: convince people to invest in the scryptocurrency. And so I asked, like, 82 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: so this is a scam, and he was like, yeah, 83 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: this is a scame. 84 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 4: They were just saw like they were really just blatant 85 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 4: about it, like they weren't hiding it at all from. 86 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: Some They actually were surprised that I'm asking, like everyone 87 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 3: here comes for this kind of job is knowing what 88 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: they're getting into. Except for me because at the time 89 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: I was still new in the country and I didn't 90 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: know what does it mean to work in a copy 91 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 3: based job. They call it a copy based job because 92 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 3: they give the people's scripts and they tell them to 93 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 3: copy the scripts and paste it on a chat. We 94 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 3: didn't have to follow the script, but like the script 95 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: said exactly what you do, imagine it to say, like, Hi, 96 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: my name is female name insert female name here, and 97 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 3: I'm thirty one. I really want to know you better. 98 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: So they tell us who they are, their age, and 99 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: then we're supported to know what kind of job they have, 100 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 3: so we evaluate if it's worth the worth the time, 101 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: or not worth talking to them. After that, we're supposed 102 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 3: to chat with them. Normally, we're supposed to show them 103 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 3: that we're really rich. We have money and we don't 104 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: need money from them. We actually have enough money to 105 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: live our own life or my own life. As the 106 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: girl unpretendingly, many people get skeptical, so like they wanted 107 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 3: to see the girl so for that they had it 108 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 3: in mind that okay, I want the victim would say like, okay, 109 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: I'd like to see you. I'd like to talk to you, 110 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: hear your voice or see your face. So we had 111 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: a model on the promise that whenever a victim decided 112 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: to to like want to chat or make sure that 113 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 3: we're really go to this model and we ask her 114 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: to to like talk to this victim for like a 115 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: few seconds because she have a line of people waiting 116 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 3: for her to also talk to other victims, So like, 117 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: just talk to this person so they make sure you're real, 118 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 3: and we go back and cook and continue the conversation 119 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: just in plain texts and. 120 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 4: Just so does that model is that like an AI 121 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 4: voice simulator or is it an AI video simulator or 122 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 4: it's both. It's a really good Oh really, oh wow. 123 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: Ukrainian and her mother is Turkish. She's like by everyone's standards. 124 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: She was a really nice looking lady, and she spoke 125 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 3: English very well. She actually could speak like three more languages. 126 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 4: And what was the money? What was the money they 127 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: were offering for this? 128 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: It was a salary but like it was about five 129 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 3: hundred dollars per month something like that. My shift started 130 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 3: at the evening at five point fifty pm and ended 131 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 3: fifty the morning next day. 132 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 4: What about the other people there? 133 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 3: There were people from Africa in the Attackstan Egypt also Tunisia. 134 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 4: How many staff were they all together? So if you 135 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 4: had to guess how many people were coming in and 136 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 4: coming out of that building, in my. 137 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: Floor, there were about a thing about about one hundred persons. 138 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: Like because they give us accommodation, they give us rooms 139 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: to sleep in inside the building. So yeah, the collection 140 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: of sleeping rooms adds up to one hundred person And. 141 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 4: How many levels was there? Seven seven, well, so there's 142 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 4: potentially seven hundred people working there at the same time. 143 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, there were also like five six more buildings. You 144 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 3: can walk around the building with that set Like you're 145 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: about a couple of few miles away from cities, so 146 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: like you'd walk in the desert for such a long 147 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: distance if you want to escape, so it's pointless. There 148 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: are people who just doesn't want to do this, but 149 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: like they're also just want to take any amount of 150 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: money whatsoever, not to send anything for home, just like 151 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: to support themselves because they can't go back home. And 152 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: there are people who just got used to it, like Okay, 153 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: this is just another job to them, Like you'd go there, 154 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: you'd see people singing, playing music, pretending to work when 155 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: they're not working. Like it got to the point where 156 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: it's normal. They don't even think about it. I actually 157 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: got used to them. I forgot like, hey, this is 158 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 3: not a job, this is a scan. Those are not customers, 159 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: those are victims. It's just get this normal after a while, 160 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 3: Like you regret, you definitely feel bad for what you're doing, 161 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: but at the same time, it's them or you, like 162 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: these people living in their house having their job, or 163 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: you that doesn't have a job and forced actually to 164 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: do this job. Because you get in you can't get 165 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 3: out easily, Like they take your best sport or ID 166 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: and tell you to stay, and if you want to leave, 167 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 3: they make it such a long and complicated process, like 168 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: they search your phone, they search everything you have to 169 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 3: make sure that you didn't take anything anything and you 170 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: didn't report them. The moment I knew that this is 171 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 3: a scam, it wasn't about okay, I just want to 172 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 3: get out, I was like, I don't want it to 173 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 3: continue happening, because at the end of the day, if 174 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: they weren't targeting North America, like, it could be somewhere else. 175 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 3: It could be my cont it could be targeting my family. 176 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: Wow, what an amazing interview. 177 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm bad to say this, but that 178 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 2: scammer sounds like a good dude. 179 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 4: I know. It is funny, isn't it. But yeah, he 180 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 4: kind of took it upon himself. You'll have to read 181 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 4: more of the story to find out, but he took 182 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 4: it upon himself to try to expose these scammers. And 183 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 4: even in WhatsApp messages when we were talking about how 184 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 4: to do the interview and what time worked, he was 185 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 4: incredibly polite. So not what I was expecting to be honest, 186 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 4: I was a bit on edge about talking to him, 187 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 4: but he ended up being a very nice chap. 188 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: This is not just something out of the blue that 189 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: we're doing here in news dot com dot You. This 190 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: is actually part of a campaign that we've launched because 191 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: we want to stop Ozzie's getting scammed out of their money, 192 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: and we've come up with an idea of how to 193 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: make that possible. 194 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: We'll tell you more in just a moment. Welcome back. 195 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: Well, I've sent ATC back to her desk to do 196 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 2: some more work. Now I'm joined by another member of 197 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: the news dot com dot are You investigations team, Sarah 198 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: Sharpel's aka Sharpie just like the pan Sharpie. 199 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in. 200 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: First of all, do we have any idea how much 201 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: Ozzies are getting scanned out of every single year? 202 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 5: We do, Bucky. It's a devastating issue. Ozzie's are losing 203 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 5: two point seven billion dollars a year to scam and 204 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 5: it's impacting hundreds of thousands of them. 205 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: I understand that you've actually, in the last couple of 206 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: weeks been speaking to a lot of Ossie's who've been 207 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: scanned out of money. 208 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: Tell us about one of them. That's right. 209 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 5: I went out to Regional Victoria to meet Vietnam War veteran. 210 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 5: His name is Danny mcaiva, and he lost seventy thousand dollars. 211 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 5: It was a scam where they were impersonating Microsoft, and 212 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 5: they got into his computer and transferred out that seventy 213 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 5: thousand dollars within two hours. It was horrific. 214 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty full on story. It's online at 215 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: news dot com dot you today. I've got some audio 216 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 2: of your interview with him. Let's have a listen it. 217 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 6: Bragway Heart and I haven't been the same since this 218 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 6: scam thing, because it's just made my health just so 219 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 6: much worse. Every day. He's been a real grind and 220 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 6: it's on my mind twenty four hours a day far out. 221 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 2: That is pretty heartbreaking stuff. Here at news dot com 222 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: dot you. We want to try and stop people like 223 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: him getting scammed out of money each year by all 224 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: these people overseas. 225 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: We've launched a campaign. What's it called, Sarah. 226 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 5: It's called People Before Profit. 227 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: People before Profit. It's catchy. I like it. What is 228 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: the aim of the campaign. 229 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 5: We're calling on the federal government to make it mandatory 230 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 5: for banks to pay back scam victims. It's a well 231 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 5: leading legislation that was introduced into the UK in October 232 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 5: and it works. It was a voluntary system before that 233 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 5: banks were a part of, and scam losses have dropped. 234 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: That would be such a relief, wouldn't it, Because obviously 235 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: you feel ashamed if you get scammed out of your money, 236 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: You feel like a bit of an idiot. But to 237 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: know that the bank would be forced to cover your losses, 238 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 2: what are a lief for all those Aussies who are 239 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 2: getting ripped off every single year. 240 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 5: There's a huge stigma attached to being scammed and we 241 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 5: need to change that. We need change that scam victims 242 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 5: aren't devastated by these things by they're not defaulting on 243 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 5: their mortgages, they're not unable to pay their child school 244 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 5: fees that they don't feel like they can't even go 245 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 5: on at times like it's horrific and we need it 246 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 5: to stop, all right. 247 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: So the campaign is called People Before Profit. For everyone 248 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 2: listening right now, we want people to sign this petition. 249 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: Where do they go to sign the petition? 250 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 5: The petition is on change or but please go to 251 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 5: news dot com dot Au to sign it. 252 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: All right, you will go and get all the links 253 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: atnews dot com dot you then you can go off 254 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: to sign the petition. 255 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, sharpie. This is a great idea. 256 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: I think all of Australia is going to get behind it. 257 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: And thank you for listening to this episode of From 258 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 2: the Newsroom. 259 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 4: Follow us subscribe to From the Newsroom wherever you get 260 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 4: your podcasts.