1 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: From The Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front. 2 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. Romance is in. Specifically, gay romance is in, 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: and it's replacing, or at least complimenting, the kind of 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: queer love stories we're used to seeing on the screen 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: where there's a lot of crying and anguish. Even more intriguing, 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: the audience for hot gay romance is women, including a 7 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: whole lot of heterosexual ladies, who, it turns out, have 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: been waiting for some dudes to rip their clothes off 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: and get steamy together, no girls involved. My guest today 10 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: is The Australian's Culture content director Bianca far Marcus. She 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: interviewed Alexander Skarsgard about his latest role as a hot 12 00:00:53,720 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: gay biker in a new movie Pillion. What am I 13 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: going to do with you? Whatever you want? Any First 14 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: things first? How was Alexander Scarsgard. 15 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: The hottest person I've ever seen? 16 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: But he was lovely? The hotness is, of course, by design, 17 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: a necessary factor to draw in audiences. But there's more 18 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: to the character of Ray. 19 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 2: Than the stealthily sexy, dripping in testosterone, hyper masculine, obvious 20 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: heart throb. There's also leather head to toe and let 21 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: me tell you the white leather evolution of that community. 22 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: Beautiful. That community in Pillion is dudes who ride motorbikes, 23 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: tough guys, loud engines, clubhouses. It's also people who are 24 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: into kinky sadomasochisms. You never have been of a biker, 25 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: then biker bianker tells me. Pillion has been. 26 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: Marketed as the greatest romance of the year, quite cleverly 27 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: since it's coming up against Wuthering Heights. Basically a story 28 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: about two men who fall in love, and part of 29 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: the relationship dynamic is that it is a subdom relationship. 30 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: So throw away everything fifty Shades of Gray taught you 31 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: about it and step into the gay biker community. One 32 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: character played by Harry Melling, who everyone will know of 33 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: Harry Potter fame playing Dudley do for playing sorry of 34 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: Harry Potter, fame for playing Dudley Bursley, the beloved obnoxious cousin. 35 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: He is the kind of younger, more innocent counterpart in 36 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: the relationship. 37 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: How do you get a man like that? I have 38 00:02:58,520 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: an aptitude for devotion. 39 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: He works as a parking ticket officer, so obviously his 40 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: life sucks because everyone universally hates him, has these gorgeous, 41 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: doting parents that are so beyond accepting the fact that 42 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: he's gay. They're like, we don't care about your sexuality. 43 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: We care about the fact that you still don't have 44 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: a boyfriend and you're becoming boring to us. And then 45 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: he bumps into Ray, who's played by Skarsguard, and from 46 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: there it kind of explodes into this tale both of 47 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: how they test each other, how they fall in love 48 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: with one another, but also how they fall in love 49 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: with themselves or what they come to understand about who 50 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: they want to be, whether they're in that relationship or not. 51 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Listen, Joe, Yeah, would you like to have a drink 52 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: with me? I just finished a game and I could 53 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: use a beer. You know, Oh no, I can' You're 54 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: not my wife. This is Denzel Washington in Philadelphia. It 55 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: was a groundbreaking nineteen ninety three film where a massive 56 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: start Tom Hanks played a man dying of AIDS and 57 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Washington played a reflexively homophobic lawyer who came to be 58 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: Hanks's greatest ally, I don't pick up people in drug 59 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: stories every day? What do you think I'm gay? Aren't you? 60 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: You know? That is exactly the kind of bullshit that 61 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: makes people hate you a little from Philadelphia to call 62 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: me by your name. Hollywood has historically depicted homosexual relationships 63 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: as doomed. There's struggle, there's death, there are tears. These 64 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: stories are told from an empathetic point of view, exploring 65 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: the idea of a marginalized community struggling in an unsympathetic society. 66 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: It sounds as though we're having a different moment now 67 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: where we're seeing homosexuality on screen in ways that is 68 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: not about them being doomed. 69 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: There are a lot of stories that sort of center 70 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 2: on the fact that this character has to come out, 71 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: they have to conceal it from someone, or they have 72 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: to come to terms with something that they've never expected 73 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: within themselves, whereas with kind of this new iteration, it's 74 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: like that is the baseline. Then we go through what 75 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: we would call kind of a normal romantic arc that 76 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: we've seen a million times before, only this time a 77 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 2: lot of the history has been so rooted in this 78 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: strum narrative or this didactic approach to the relationship. Now 79 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: it's like, well, we are fundamentally happy people, and this 80 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,559 Speaker 2: is how we express love. And I think It's coming 81 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: also at a really interesting time in cinema, where there 82 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: aren't many love stories that are joyous, and a lot 83 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: of them are kind of always depressing, whereas now you 84 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: have this whole evolution of queer cinema that is just 85 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: happy to express itself and be proud of what it is. 86 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: Every middle aged woman I know is either reading hot 87 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: romances about dragons and elves on their kindle or they're 88 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: watching Heated Rivalry, the biggest TV show of the moment, about, 89 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: of all things, a couple of gay ice hockey players 90 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: who fall in love. 91 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: What do you want, Hollander, I think I'm gay? 92 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: Hmm? Oh yeah, what makes you think that you? 93 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:22,679 Speaker 3: You're not gay? 94 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: No? Not completely? 95 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well I think I am completely. 96 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're gay? 97 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: So what? 98 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: Well it's kind of a big deal. 99 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: Where does a heated Rivalry fit into this idea that 100 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about of gay romance being portrayed on screen 101 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: in a way where nobody has to be punished? I 102 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: think he did. 103 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 2: Rivalry has come as sort of an emblem for this 104 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: shift that is also a very happy story, Like there 105 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: is so much tenderness and so much sweetness. There's also 106 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: a lot of very very flond depictions of sex. But 107 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: I think in terms of what it offers is that 108 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 2: it has a beauty to it and a tenderness. The 109 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: other thing is that it's two very traditionally masculine kinds 110 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: of characters, so there's no imbalance. There's not one weak 111 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: partner and then one strong partner that has to save them. 112 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: And I think that's what's kind of making it so 113 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: broadly appealing. 114 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: So women are the audience for these shows, at least 115 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: in a large part, both straight and queer women. Yes, 116 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: what is it about seeing to super hot dudes? And 117 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: even as I asked this question, I could feel like 118 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: I could answer it. What is it about seeing two 119 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: super hot dudes rip each other's clothes off that is 120 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: appealing to women? 121 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: I mean, we've got the answer straight away, But I 122 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: think if we want to be less surface level about it, 123 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: violent images against women, particularly in heterosexual circumstances, are prolific. 124 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: Consent is very much conversation. Sexual violence is very much 125 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: part of the conversation now, and I think a lot 126 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: of that has contributed to this idea of like, okay, 127 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: where is the fantasy for us? And we get things 128 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: like very Smart and dragons and everything in terms of 129 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: romance novels. But then men loving men has also become 130 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: an object of desire for women. This is actually not 131 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: as new as I think heated rivalry in films like 132 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: Pillion would suggest. It started way back when in the 133 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: fifties sixties, with the emergence of slash fiction, which was 134 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: predominantly penned by women taking common characters on TV. At 135 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: the moment, my personal favorite is Spock and Captain Kirk 136 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: and rewriting the stories into homosexual love fantasies. 137 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 3: I assume you're complimenting mister Spark on his ability to decode. 138 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, sir. 139 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 3: Well, here's one thing you can be sure of, mister. 140 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: Leave any bigotry in your quarters. There's no room for 141 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 3: it on the bridge. Do I make myself clear? You 142 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: do so. 143 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: It obviously transfer formed and grew with the ages. Nineteen eighties, 144 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: Japan started falling in love with this kind of concept of. 145 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: Boys love or yahweh. 146 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: Which was also depicting just homosexual characters falling in love 147 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: with each other, and it was something that was really 148 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 2: popularized by women. Now a lot of women have been 149 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: the authors behind gay love stories that have just become 150 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: massive hits. We've seen a seven hundred and forty percent 151 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: increase in people wanting LGBT love stories, particularly with men 152 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: loving men. A lot of the reason it's a phrase 153 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: that was coined in twenty nineteen called heteropessimism, where it's 154 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: basically like between an acute awareness of misogyny growing spaces 155 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: like the manisphere, online, constant misogynistic rhetoric everywhere the hell 156 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: that is online. Dating women were basically like, you know what, 157 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: I'm kind of over having a male partner. Let's go 158 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: fantasize about something else. And it's like, yes, you're still 159 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: attracted to men. Here's two hot ones going at it 160 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: and kind of express seeing a form of love where 161 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: you don't look at that and see yourself at a loss. 162 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 2: You're not looking at and thinking like that's the man 163 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: that could harm me, or that's the man that's presenting 164 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: a threat to me. That is just two men falling 165 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,479 Speaker 2: in love or something like it, and it's more enjoyable. 166 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: It shakes up one of the ideas underlying both sex 167 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: on screen in mainstream entertainment and porn, which is that 168 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: the consumer of it needs to be able to visualize 169 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 1: themselves in that encounter. Yes, I can't enjoy a sort 170 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: of sexual encounter on screen unless I can imagine myself 171 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: being one of the participants. This makes it clear that 172 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: actually the audience doesn't need to be able to see 173 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: themselves in there. That's really really interesting and it's a 174 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: change in the way women are thinking about eroticism, isn't it, 175 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: Particularly at a time when there's so much concern about 176 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: the violence in poem like women talking about normal sexual 177 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: encounters suddenly turning into choking because some dude has watched 178 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: a lot of choking videos and thinks that that's normal. 179 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, what have we been visualizing ourselves in people who 180 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: don't have cellulite stretch marks, any of the things that 181 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 2: are normal acts of sexuality that are never messy or 182 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: have awkward moments in it. And what I finds are 183 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: fascinating in this shift, it's really come down to the 184 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: emotional side of it. There is that saying men have 185 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: sex with the body women have sex with the mind. 186 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: I think it does tap into this psychology, whether it's 187 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: intentional or not. A lot of these queer narratives kind 188 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 2: of lean more into the deep affection or the kind 189 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 2: of yearning and the longing for it, and that's something 190 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: that has possibly been lost with heteronormative tails. There is 191 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: that gap in the market where a lot of female 192 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: spectators looking at this and being like, you know what, 193 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: I'm enjoying watching this incredible process and this incredibly sexy process. 194 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: I mean they're always hot, that's the thing we keep 195 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: dancing around. These scenes are amazing to look at, and 196 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: it just makes me feel good about myself. It's like 197 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: filling this need. 198 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: So should gay roles be reserved for gay actors or 199 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: does it just not matter? That's after the break. We've 200 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: been through a big moment where identity politics seem to 201 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: take overcasting. You had to be of a certain community 202 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: to be allowed to portray that community on stage or 203 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: on scramp. That seems to be going away. 204 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: Yes, even just with the two films that we've mentioned, 205 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: all the main characters are straight, like all the protagonists 206 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: are straight in real life, and there's really been no 207 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: kind of conversation or backlash around it. I mean there's 208 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: always one or two cries saying, couldn't a gay actor 209 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: have played this role? We look back in history, Tom 210 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: Hanks says, looking back now, he would never have played 211 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: the role in Philadelphi. And while I don't agree with 212 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: him because he was amazing. 213 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and nobody would have watched it if it had 214 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: been two unknown actors. The fact that it was Tom 215 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: Hanks and Denzel Washington they made it a blockbuster. Yeah, 216 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: and that's a massive part of it. 217 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: Like you tell someone, go watch Pillion, it's a gay 218 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: bdsm rom dom com of what they're calling it. The 219 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: average person might not be into that. You tell them 220 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: Alexander Skausguard's taken on this role, they'd probably be like, well, 221 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 2: why has he done that? Like surely, okay, there's there's 222 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: clearly something else in it. We look back at, like 223 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: Sean Penn's Milk, his portrayal of Harvey Milk. 224 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: He deserved to play that role. 225 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 2: My name is Harvey Milk and I'm here, any Crays, 226 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: you must come out. That was an iconic gay activist figure. 227 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: If there was a gay actor in that role, would 228 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: it have meant something more to the entire production? I 229 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, this is the thing. At the 230 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: end of the day, it's called acting. 231 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: Biancher far Marcus, thank you very much, Thank you, Pillion, 232 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: is in cinemas now. Biancher Fhi Marcus is the Content 233 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: director of Culture at The Australian. You can read her 234 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: work anytime at the Australian dot com dot au slash culture. 235 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: This episode of the Front was hosted by me Claire 236 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: Harvey and produced by Jasper Leek. Thanks for joining us 237 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: on the Front this week. Our team also includes Kristin 238 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: Amyot Lee at Sammaglu, Tiffanydimac and Joshua Burton.