WEBVTT - Is Trump trying to rig the midterm elections?

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<v Speaker 1>The People's Republic of China carried out what is believed

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<v Speaker 1>to be the largest compromise of election data in history,

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<v Speaker 1>resulting in China's illicit acquisition of two hundred and twenty

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<v Speaker 1>million US voter files.

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<v Speaker 2>In the East Room of the White House, Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>makes an extraordinary accusation of election interference, claiming Beijing had

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<v Speaker 2>illegally obtained the voter files of two hundred and twenty

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<v Speaker 2>million Americans. He also accuses US intelligence agencies of hiding

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<v Speaker 2>the extent of China's activity.

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<v Speaker 1>Members of the deep state, very very famous group of people,

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<v Speaker 1>many cases in our intelligence agency work to actively suppress

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<v Speaker 1>and downplay information about the extent of China's sinister election medaling.

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<v Speaker 2>Later, Trump claims a homeland security review had found around

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and seventy eight thousand non citizens registered to vote.

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<v Speaker 1>Even this limited analysis found more than a quarter of

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<v Speaker 1>a million foreigners illegally registered to vote. Put together, these

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<v Speaker 1>disclosers reveal an election system so broken and so vulnerable

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<v Speaker 1>that no one can possibly defend it.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's motivation, critics say, is to so doubt ahead of

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<v Speaker 2>the upcoming midterm elections, which he has already made several

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<v Speaker 2>attempts to reshape, from redrawing maps to restricting voting to

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<v Speaker 2>firing the entire Electoral Commission. I'm Ruby Jones, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>listening to seven Am Today staff writer at The Atlantic

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<v Speaker 2>David A. Graham on Trump's campaign to tilt the midterms

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<v Speaker 2>and what he could still do before, during, and after

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<v Speaker 2>election day. It's Friday, July twenty four, David, Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>recently delivered a pretty unusual primetime address from the White House.

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<v Speaker 2>He said that China had stolen voter information and that

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<v Speaker 2>intelligence officials were covering up election interference. Take me through

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<v Speaker 2>to begin with the claims that he was making there.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's a mix of things.

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<v Speaker 4>Some of them are claims that are based on real

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<v Speaker 4>evidence that he was exaggerating. So, you know, he talked

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<v Speaker 4>about China and other countries trying to interfere, but overstated what.

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<v Speaker 1>They've done two hundred and twenty million US voter files.

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<v Speaker 1>That information includes names, addresses, phone numbers.

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<v Speaker 5>We do not know where the presidents got those numbers from,

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<v Speaker 5>and we should point out to our viewers that US

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<v Speaker 5>intelligence found no evidence of Chinese meddling in the twenty

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<v Speaker 5>twenty election.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, there's heavily redected documents that the White House provided,

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<v Speaker 4>but they don't really clearly back up what he said.

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<v Speaker 2>ABC News reviewed the documents and found they describe efforts

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<v Speaker 2>to obtain, not alter, voter records.

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<v Speaker 6>Many voter records can already be legally obtained from states.

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<v Speaker 4>In some cases, he exaggerated other things. So he claimed

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<v Speaker 4>a great deal of attempts to fraudulently register to vote

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<v Speaker 4>in the state of Michigan. This is something that is true,

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<v Speaker 4>but it's something that was found out at the time

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<v Speaker 4>and has been referred for prosecution. Some of the things

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<v Speaker 4>are innuendo or he didn't have the evidence to back

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<v Speaker 4>it up. So it's a mix of vague claims and

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<v Speaker 4>things that are simply not true.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And so there was this one claim that two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and seventy eight thousand non citizens were registered to vote.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump hasn't provided any.

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<v Speaker 3>Evidence for that.

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<v Speaker 2>So why is he telling this story though? What does

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<v Speaker 2>he want Americans to believe about the upcoming election?

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<v Speaker 4>I think there are three things going on. One is

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<v Speaker 4>this kind of fearmongering about immigrants is part of Trump's

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<v Speaker 4>core political appeal and has been for a decade. Part

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<v Speaker 4>of it is Trump, I think, has never fully gotten

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<v Speaker 4>over losing the twenty twenty election, nor has he really

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<v Speaker 4>made peace with the idea that although he won the

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<v Speaker 4>presidency in twenty sixteen, he did not win the popular vote.

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<v Speaker 4>And so a lot of these things are sort of

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<v Speaker 4>designed to make some excuse or to claim that in fact,

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<v Speaker 4>he did win those elections and he won the popular vote.

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<v Speaker 4>I think he is also trying to lay the ground

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<v Speaker 4>work to contest or to cast out on the twenty

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<v Speaker 4>twenty sixth election. So all of these are things that

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<v Speaker 4>might convince people that the system doesn't work, or that

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<v Speaker 4>the wrong people are voting, or that somehow something is

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<v Speaker 4>going wrong and they can't trust the results.

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<v Speaker 2>And tell me about the relevance of this happening before

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<v Speaker 2>the midterms, the timing here, and what changes is Trump

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<v Speaker 2>hoping to be able to put into place.

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<v Speaker 3>Trump has had a kind of long standing attempt to

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<v Speaker 3>do a bunch of things.

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<v Speaker 6>The President signing an executive order directing his administration to

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<v Speaker 6>create a list of confirmed US citizens eligible to vote

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<v Speaker 6>in each state, and to ban the Postal Service from

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<v Speaker 6>mailing voter's ballots unless they are on a state's official

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<v Speaker 6>absentee voter list.

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<v Speaker 4>He has issued these executive orders that tell states, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>when they can count votes and how they can count votes,

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<v Speaker 4>which are things that he doesn't have the power as

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<v Speaker 4>the president to do.

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<v Speaker 6>The order requires voters to show documents proving their citizenship

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<v Speaker 6>in order to register to vote in federal elections, and

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<v Speaker 6>it demands all ballots be received by election day.

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<v Speaker 4>He has gone after some of the governmental panels that

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<v Speaker 4>sort of assist with elections, whether that's cybersecurity or just

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<v Speaker 4>general procedure. He has attempted to acquire voter roles from

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<v Speaker 4>a bunch of states, suing the states to try to

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<v Speaker 4>demand this information.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm going of Justice file a lawsuit against Washington's Secretary

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<v Speaker 7>of State, Steve Hobbs. The DOJ wants a federal judge

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<v Speaker 7>to compel the state to hand over voters full names,

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<v Speaker 7>dates of birth, residential addresses, and even their state driver's

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<v Speaker 7>license numbers or the last.

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<v Speaker 3>Four digits of their Social Security numbers.

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<v Speaker 4>And he's also pressed Congress to pass a law they

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<v Speaker 4>would overhaul some of the way voting works, and in particular,

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<v Speaker 4>it would require voters to provide proof of citizenship in

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<v Speaker 4>order to register to vote.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's something that has.

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<v Speaker 4>Passed the House but has been stuck in the Senate,

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<v Speaker 4>and he has been very frustrated by his inability to

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<v Speaker 4>get them to get it any further. They think that

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<v Speaker 4>this law is too sweeping and wouldn't solve the problem

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<v Speaker 4>if you talk about providing proof of citizenship. First of all,

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<v Speaker 4>there is no problem. There is not widespread non citizen voting,

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<v Speaker 4>and there have been years of efforts to try to

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<v Speaker 4>find it and it has not produced evidence that this

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<v Speaker 4>is a widespread problem, certainly not on the scale to

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<v Speaker 4>change elections. And I think some of these senators are

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<v Speaker 4>hearing from Republican election officials back home in there are

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<v Speaker 4>states who are saying, we don't have the time or

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<v Speaker 4>the wherewithal to do this before the November election. If

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<v Speaker 4>we try to switch into system now, it will create

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<v Speaker 4>really serious chaos and be a problem.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think they're elected to do that, which is good.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Can we talk a little bit more about the

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<v Speaker 2>voter roles, Because these roles they have private information that's

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<v Speaker 2>not normally made public. So what are the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>fears here around the administration demanding that data.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there are a couple of things.

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<v Speaker 4>One is privacy as you say, this is full of

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<v Speaker 4>identifiable information, social security numbers, addresses, all sorts of other things,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's not clear how the federal government would store

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<v Speaker 4>this information, what sort of information security it has. I think,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it's a sort of basic privacy concern in

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<v Speaker 4>that respect. And as it related to that, some voter

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<v Speaker 4>advocates are afraid that this will intimidate people into not

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<v Speaker 4>wanting to vote or not wanting to register to vote.

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<v Speaker 4>The other question is what they will do with this

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<v Speaker 4>in terms of non citizen voting. So we have seen

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<v Speaker 4>in the past efforts to match voter roles against other

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<v Speaker 4>databases to prove that there are you know, tens of

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<v Speaker 4>thousands or hundreds of thousands, or who knows how many

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<v Speaker 4>ineligible voters who are voting. And we've seen this happen

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<v Speaker 4>a bunch of times. There are a lot of claims

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<v Speaker 4>about this, and every time this happens, it ultimately turns

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<v Speaker 4>out that claims are overstated to the point where there

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<v Speaker 4>is almost no evidence of non citizen voting or non

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<v Speaker 4>citizen registration. It'll be false matches and bad data. And

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<v Speaker 4>so the big concern is that that's what will happen

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<v Speaker 4>again once again, there'll be a claim of many non

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<v Speaker 4>citizens voting, and actually it won't be true at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, wait and see on that. What other avenues are

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<v Speaker 2>still open to Trump ahead of election day in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of trying to exert influence.

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<v Speaker 4>So he's continuing to try to get Congress to pass

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<v Speaker 4>this Save America Act, which seems like it won't work,

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<v Speaker 4>but you never can tell. I think he can continue

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<v Speaker 4>this effort to so doubt and to make people think

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<v Speaker 4>that the elections are not safe. He can continue to

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<v Speaker 4>try to bully state authorities or demand voter roles from them.

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<v Speaker 4>Then the question is what happens on election day and afterwards.

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<v Speaker 4>And I've talked to a number of experts who are

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<v Speaker 4>concerned that the government might send out armed troops or

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<v Speaker 4>armed federal law enforcement in ways they would interfere with

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<v Speaker 4>people voting. Whether that was sort of just like an

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<v Speaker 4>intimidation factor or actually getting in the way of polling places,

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<v Speaker 4>nobody really knows.

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<v Speaker 3>It's kind of speculative, but that is a concern.

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<v Speaker 2>Would that be legal doing that?

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<v Speaker 3>It would not be legal.

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<v Speaker 4>The law says you cannot send armed men to a

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<v Speaker 4>polling place except in case of.

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<v Speaker 3>An insurrection, So the worries. Maybe there's a workaround.

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<v Speaker 4>Maybe Trump sends troops into the streets, as we saw

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<v Speaker 4>in cities for immigration purposes over the last few months,

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<v Speaker 4>and that achieved the same effect, even though it's not

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<v Speaker 4>ostensibly to mess with polling places. The other question is,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, we've seen Trump do things where he kind

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<v Speaker 4>of bends the law and waits to see if somebody

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<v Speaker 4>stops him, and it's not clear who would stop him

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<v Speaker 4>in the circumstance, or if they could do it quickly enough.

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<v Speaker 4>If we're talking about election day, where things move quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up, could Trump's team smooth the way to overturn

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<v Speaker 2>the election results? David, you mentioned the twenty twenty election result.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump wanted to overturn that at the time, but officials

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<v Speaker 2>in his own administration resisted those How much has changed

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<v Speaker 2>since then in terms of the people that Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>surrounded himself with and who is in the position to

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<v Speaker 2>make those decisions now.

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<v Speaker 4>I think, for one thing, he has many people around

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<v Speaker 4>him who are not willing to tell him no, people

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<v Speaker 4>who don't have the same sort of buy into the

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<v Speaker 4>old system that some of those officials did, and who

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<v Speaker 4>are sort of more on board with the Trump movement,

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<v Speaker 4>so those people are less likely to stop Trump. He

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<v Speaker 4>has brought many people who were election deniers twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 4>into positions of power, including in the Department of Home

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<v Speaker 4>and Security overseeing election integrity.

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<v Speaker 3>There's also been changes at the state.

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<v Speaker 4>Level that I think are important in the local level,

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<v Speaker 4>where people who are Trump affiliated or Trump supporters have

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<v Speaker 4>entered these local offices and these state offices, and so

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<v Speaker 4>they have power that they didn't have six years ago.

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<v Speaker 4>And some of the Republicans at the state level who

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<v Speaker 4>stood up to Trump have left office or have been

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<v Speaker 4>defeated by Trump supporting candidates. So there are a lot

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<v Speaker 4>fewer safeguards all around than there were in that election.

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<v Speaker 2>And what about after the election or what avenues are

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<v Speaker 2>there for people to challenge the count or delay certification

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately effect who is elected.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there are a bunch of things.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, we always get some level of lawsuits challenging results,

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<v Speaker 4>and this is what we saw in twenty twenty. And

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<v Speaker 4>for the most I mean that worked. We saw a

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<v Speaker 4>bunch of lawsuits they didn't have evidence, they lost in court,

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<v Speaker 4>so that we saw that process or function the way

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<v Speaker 4>it's supposed to. Even if many of these lawsuits were spurious.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the things that we heard talk about in

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<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty. Later there was a discussion inside the administration

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<v Speaker 4>about potentially seizing voting machines, and that's something we've heard

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<v Speaker 4>more about. I think that would be a real danger.

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<v Speaker 4>It would make it hard for people to know to

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<v Speaker 4>trust the count. We wouldn't be able, we would have

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<v Speaker 4>sort of a chain of custody for ballots, and so

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<v Speaker 4>we wouldn't know really who won or whether we could

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<v Speaker 4>believe the results.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that is a danger.

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<v Speaker 4>We could also see Trump, you know, trying to prosecute

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<v Speaker 4>election officials for not doing what he wanted, and I

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<v Speaker 4>think we're likely to see him pressuring officials in the

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<v Speaker 4>way he did in twenty twenty, you know, calling up

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<v Speaker 4>officials and saying they needed to find votes for him.

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<v Speaker 3>He did that in twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 4>He didn't really face any consequences for it, and so

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<v Speaker 4>I would expect he would try something like that again

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<v Speaker 4>if you thought it would be helpful for him.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, And I suppose that goes to this bigger idea here,

0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.920
<v Speaker 2>which is that sure, some of these measures might work,

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.160
<v Speaker 2>some might not, some might get blocked, but ultimately, the

0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>idea that a president can or or should be able

0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 2>to influence election outcomes. I mean, that wasn't something that

0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.160
<v Speaker 2>existed before twenty.

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<v Speaker 3>Twenty, right exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean it's meant to be that a president can politic,

0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:41.200
<v Speaker 4>but they shouldn't be.

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<v Speaker 3>Interfering with the results.

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<v Speaker 4>And here we have him threatening to or in the past,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, going into parts of the government where he

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.600
<v Speaker 4>has no statutory authority, trying to get officials to do

0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 4>things that are illegal and that don't match up to

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 4>the evidence, and you know, undermining general faith. And I

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<v Speaker 4>think that the twenty twenty six elections are a difficult

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 4>one for Trump to influence in a serious way. A

0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.240
<v Speaker 4>presidential election is, you know, it's kind of fifty separate elections,

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.559
<v Speaker 4>but there's kind of one big event. But a congressional

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.320
<v Speaker 4>election is we have four hundred and thirty five House seats.

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 4>It's very hard to interfere with a lot of those

0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.120
<v Speaker 4>and switch the result unless it's really close, unless it's

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 4>a margin of you know, two and three and five

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.120
<v Speaker 4>votes her seats. So I think that makes it hard

0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.760
<v Speaker 4>for Trump to materially impact the result. But I think

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 4>there's a lot of ways for him to create mischief

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.439
<v Speaker 4>and to do things that are improper and possibly illegal.

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, David, thank you so much for your type my pleasure.

0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Also in the news, Pauline Hanson says her comments on

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<v Speaker 2>domestic violence have been deliberately taken out of context by

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<v Speaker 2>the media. The One Nation leader has been widely condemned,

0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.400
<v Speaker 2>accused of victim blaming for saying women who were subject

0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.679
<v Speaker 2>to abuse shouldn't put up with it and that it's

0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 2>a two way street.

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 8>Well, it is wrong, but it's also a two way street.

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<v Speaker 8>But I'm not saying that some just men and women

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<v Speaker 8>can lose their cruel as well.

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Hanson insists people should listen to the full interview and

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Australian workers will be able to escalate workplace disputes like

0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.960
<v Speaker 2>underpayment claims to a new Fair Work Court. The Prime

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Minister has announced the reinstatement of the Specialist Workers' Court

0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 2>for the first time since John Howard abolished the last

0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 2>one almost thirty years ago. He says the court will

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 2>be headed by expert judges in consultation with the Fair

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Work Commission. Its aim is to resolve workplace disputes faster

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 2>and at lower costs. I'm ruby Jones. This is seven AM.

0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening.