Speaker 1: APPOJA production.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is one of those stories that it's important
Speaker 2: to talk about, but we know he's going to be
Speaker 2: really challenging for many of you to listen to, So
Speaker 2: just a warning. We're talking about suicide over the next
Speaker 2: ten minutes. It's the story of Eden Westbrook, fifteen years old,
Speaker 2: who took her own life according to investigations that were
Speaker 2: conducted by police and the coroner.
Speaker 3: That's Leon Compton. He hosts the morning show across Tasmania
Speaker 3: on ABC Radio and last week he had Tasmanian Senator
Speaker 3: Jackie Lamby on his show talking about Eden Westbrook.
Speaker 2: Goat thoughts with Eden's family who might be listening in
Speaker 2: this morning, Why do you want the death of Eden
Speaker 2: Westbrook investigated again?
Speaker 4: You know, I'm just not sure about the investigation.
Speaker 5: It's very worrying.
Speaker 4: I want to say. You know, the family has asked
Speaker 4: to have the autopsy photos released. We want to have
Speaker 4: that released. There are questions that have been unanswered. I
Speaker 4: want to know why. You know, there was no phone
Speaker 4: records ever chased up, while there was no social media
Speaker 4: looked at. There are just unexplained questions and apparently you know,
Speaker 4: there are now new witness statements running around out there
Speaker 4: for people that have listened to that podcast, and quite frankly,
Speaker 4: I believe there is enough. There is enough new facts
Speaker 4: or evidence affecting the findings that have come to light
Speaker 4: to open up a new investigation and have this relooked at.
Speaker 4: In saying that it will need to be independently done,
Speaker 4: and it will need to be done. It will need
Speaker 4: to be someone from the mainland that is doing this,
Speaker 4: because someone needs to have fresh eyes on this. If
Speaker 4: this was one of my kids, and I'm just sitting
Speaker 4: here going some of these questions haven't been answered.
Speaker 1: Why.
Speaker 4: It's just it's just not clean cut to me. It's
Speaker 4: not clean cut to me, and I'm just not satisfied,
Speaker 4: like the family is it that this is this was
Speaker 4: a straight source side. I just please mate, We're just
Speaker 4: asking for it to be reopened. I will apologize profuse
Speaker 4: if I'm wrong about this in the future, but quite frankly,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to sleep until I see this reopened
Speaker 4: and looked at fully.
Speaker 6: My name is Daniel Collis and I have worked in
Speaker 6: crime for more than five years and I've covered a
Speaker 6: range of stories from corporate scandals to your most notorious
Speaker 6: crime cases. Like mister Kraule, and then I've also covered
Speaker 6: some recent crime stories like Greg Lynn, Samantha Murphy, and
Speaker 6: Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 3: You may have seen the Channel nine program that looked
Speaker 3: into Eden's death. We've put a link in the show
Speaker 3: notes if you haven't seen it yet. Daniel is an
Speaker 3: investigative reporter that played a significant role in helping investigate
Speaker 3: this case independently of this podcast. For that program. I
Speaker 3: wanted to know why Eden's case caught their attention.
Speaker 6: I was initially sent Eden Westbrook's case from a colleague,
Speaker 6: and that's usually how I come across different stories is
Speaker 6: through contacts relationships that I've built all through family, word
Speaker 6: of mouth. And I remember reading this story on Eden
Speaker 6: Westbrook and straightaway that innate curiosity popped up and it
Speaker 6: was like, this doesn't make sense. You know, a young
Speaker 6: fifteen year old, beautiful, highly intelligent, loving.
Speaker 1: And you could just see the expression on Eden's face.
Speaker 1: She was such a happy young woman, and.
Speaker 6: I just thought, it doesn't make sense, you know, why
Speaker 6: would she take her life? And in such a public location.
Speaker 6: I needed to know more because there wasn't enough context
Speaker 6: for me. I didn't know where she had been, what
Speaker 6: was going on in her life. I wanted to look
Speaker 6: at the six months prior. I wanted to know whether
Speaker 6: or not she had any mental health issues. I wanted
Speaker 6: to know what was going on in her life, who
Speaker 6: she had spoken to, where she was that night, and
Speaker 6: the article I.
Speaker 1: Had been sent didn't give me enough information.
Speaker 6: So I contacted her family and I set up I
Speaker 6: think initially it was a two hour zoom call that
Speaker 6: could have been longer. And you know, I speak to
Speaker 6: the family weekly, and during the investigation, I would speak
Speaker 6: to them sometimes two three times a week. And it's
Speaker 6: my job as an investigative journalist to really know everything
Speaker 6: about Eden Westbrook and her life and what was going
Speaker 6: on with her that night.
Speaker 1: It's a funny one because in many ways you kind
Speaker 1: of feel quite invasive.
Speaker 6: But this was something that the family had allowed for
Speaker 6: me to do so, and they had.
Speaker 1: Openly shared so much information.
Speaker 6: About Eden and that night with me in order to
Speaker 6: help me get to the bottom of what was going on.
Speaker 3: Tell me, what are some of those things that you
Speaker 3: first noticed that you thought had been missed in your
Speaker 3: experience as a journal that investigates these sorts of things.
Speaker 6: So when I first looked at Eden's case, I was
Speaker 6: baffled by how she even came to be like this. She's,
Speaker 6: you know, one hundred and fifty six centimeters forty five kilos.
Speaker 1: Now I know that I am ten cent taller.
Speaker 6: Than her, and I weigh a little bit more than her,
Speaker 6: and that would be such a challenge and feat And
Speaker 6: she was also carrying with her quite a heavy tool
Speaker 6: to conduct this, so that to me was also a standout.
Speaker 6: Where did this come from, how did she even get there?
Speaker 6: What route did she take? Who did she speak to
Speaker 6: that night? These are the questions that were coming into
Speaker 6: my mind that I wanted to find out.
Speaker 1: And as time went on.
Speaker 6: We realized that there were a few things that had missed,
Speaker 6: like key people hadn't been spoken to, and that's really
Speaker 6: important in a police investigation because those twenty four hours
Speaker 6: prior to their heath are important in understanding how that
Speaker 6: person came to die. So if they haven't spoken to
Speaker 6: a critical key witness, then why not and what did
Speaker 6: that witness see? So we now know, and we'll get
Speaker 6: into this soon that apparently the police did speak to
Speaker 6: a key witness, but the family have never had the
Speaker 6: opportunity to view that statement. So there's still question marks
Speaker 6: around what happened that night. So there's just a few
Speaker 6: things that caught my attention. As we went on, we
Speaker 6: discovered quite a bit more about Eden's case.
Speaker 3: What for you, what were some of the more challenging
Speaker 3: things about investigating a.
Speaker 7: Case like this.
Speaker 1: I think with every case it varies. Sometimes it might
Speaker 1: be time, sometimes it might be memory.
Speaker 6: So for instance, with mister Kruel, one of the hardest
Speaker 6: things with that case is you're dealing with memories from
Speaker 6: thirty or forty years ago, and memories aren't always that
Speaker 6: factual with time because they do fade, so it's hard
Speaker 6: to rely on witness accounts or victim accounts in this situation.
Speaker 6: The hardest thing in the court was the cooperation with
Speaker 6: Tasmania Police and the Tasmania's Coroner's Court, because like any case,
Speaker 6: you have to help the.
Speaker 1: Family to retrieve the files.
Speaker 6: And I was actually really surprised when I spoke to
Speaker 6: Amanda Westbrook that she hadn't had any copies of the files.
Speaker 1: She hadn't received anything.
Speaker 6: She had seen them, but she hadn't received any and
Speaker 6: I thought that was really unusual because a lot of
Speaker 6: the families I had worked with previously have the opportunity
Speaker 6: to have copies of the files. So I said to Amanda,
Speaker 6: you know it is your right, you can apply for copies,
Speaker 6: and she didn't even know that was a thing. And
Speaker 6: this is a bigger broader issue here that you see
Speaker 6: across a lot of cases with families.
Speaker 1: They don't understand what their rights may be. So that
Speaker 1: was the next step.
Speaker 6: It took us nearly a year to get the files,
Speaker 6: and eventually when we did get the files, again, I
Speaker 6: can't go into too much surrounding what was in the files,
Speaker 6: but we were a little bit disappointed in what we received.
Speaker 6: And we now know that the autopsy photographs were not there,
Speaker 6: and the family are fighting.
Speaker 1: To get copies of those photographs.
Speaker 6: So that was one of the biggest challenges because without
Speaker 6: having access to all those files, how are we meant
Speaker 6: to conduct a thorough investigation.
Speaker 4: Why won't they release those autopsy photos to the family.
Speaker 4: Why won't they And that is the crucial question. What
Speaker 4: are you scared of if you can't release those photos?
Speaker 3: Is that unusual for in your experience, things like autopsy
Speaker 3: photos not to be included in a file that allegedly
Speaker 3: has all of the information that was given to the coroner.
Speaker 6: That's another really great question, and it really depends on
Speaker 6: the state, and it depends on the case. You know,
Speaker 6: is it open, is it closed, where's it at? Is
Speaker 6: it going through a coronial inquest? In this situation, it
Speaker 6: is quite unusual the family do have the right to
Speaker 6: have access to these files or to even view them.
Speaker 6: This is where doubt creeps in, and this is why
Speaker 6: there are so many unanswered questions. If the family had access,
Speaker 6: or if the family had the opportunity to have an
Speaker 6: inquest where the evidence can be presented and witnesses can
Speaker 6: be called examined and cross examined, then perhaps they wouldn't
Speaker 6: have all these unanswered questions and maybe they would have
Speaker 6: some closure. So, yes, I think it is quite unusual
Speaker 6: in this situation.
Speaker 3: So the autopsy photos we know from Jason and Amanda
Speaker 3: weren't included in the file that was delivered. Were there
Speaker 3: questions to the authorities around where those photos might be
Speaker 3: and did they give a response?
Speaker 6: Yes, there were certainly questions regarding the location of those
Speaker 6: autopsy photographs. We were met with a lot of hesitation,
Speaker 6: let's put it that way. They were very hesitant to
Speaker 6: cooperate and I was surprised by this. We had consulted
Speaker 6: doctor Byron Collins, who is a renowned forensic pathologist, to
Speaker 6: conduct an examination of Eden's autopsy. He could not do
Speaker 6: that without the autopsy photographs, which is extremely disappointing and
Speaker 6: upsetting for this family when doctor Collins was really their
Speaker 6: last hope because at the moment we don't have these photographs.
Speaker 1: We only have a report to go off.
Speaker 6: But if we had the photographs, perhaps he can review
Speaker 6: the original autopsy.
Speaker 3: You would have seen Jackie Lambee last weekend put a
Speaker 3: large ad in the Sunday Tasmanian, which is the local
Speaker 3: newspaper on Sunday. That ad basically asks two questions. The
Speaker 3: first is why count the family have a copy of
Speaker 3: the autopsy photos for their expert and in this case
Speaker 3: we're talking about doctor Byron Collins, who's been on the
Speaker 3: podcast previously. And the second question they have is do
Speaker 3: you think that Paul Reynolds, who was the pedofil cop
Speaker 3: who it has now been proven that was quite lax
Speaker 3: in his work over a number of years, whether he
Speaker 3: delivered all of the information that he needed to to
Speaker 3: the coroner. On those two grounds, you would think there
Speaker 3: are still more questions to be answered, leaving everything else aside.
Speaker 6: Oh, certainly, and I completely agree. The situation is the
Speaker 6: family aren't even saying that they want.
Speaker 1: To see the autopsy photographs.
Speaker 6: They are asking for an independent forensic pathologist who is
Speaker 6: highly qualified to view them on their behalf to make
Speaker 6: his assessment.
Speaker 1: So I don't understand the reasoning.
Speaker 6: Behind why they have not released the autopsy photographs because
Speaker 6: it has nothing to do with the psychological impact this
Speaker 6: could have on the family, because the family aren't.
Speaker 1: Requesting them for themselves.
Speaker 6: The second point she raised about Reynolds, when I first
Speaker 6: found out about Paul Reynolds, that does call into question
Speaker 6: because he was the officer at the coroner's court overseeing
Speaker 6: Eden Westbrook's case.
Speaker 1: It calls into.
Speaker 6: Question his integrity as a police officer and any of
Speaker 6: the cases that he has worked on should be reviewed.
Speaker 4: What is going on because it it does not make sense.
Speaker 4: There is too many questions that are unanswered, and quite frankly,
Speaker 4: I think puts Tasmania in a great spot to have
Speaker 4: the courage to say, you know what, maybe there is
Speaker 4: a problem here and to really have a look at this.
Speaker 1: When I hear stories like this, I just sit there
Speaker 1: and go.
Speaker 6: It doesn't surprise me because Australia's coronial system is so broken.
Speaker 4: There's been mistakes may belong along the way, so be here,
Speaker 4: but let's correct them now. I mean this Eden was
Speaker 4: twenty would have been twenty five years today, you know.
Speaker 4: I just we need to know. But leaving this, we're
Speaker 4: all sitting here wondering if there was any doubts whatsoever,
Speaker 4: and whether you're child committed suicide or not. You'd want
Speaker 4: to know the truth and we need to know the truth.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: While all this is going on in Tasmania, Jason and
Speaker 3: Amanda reached out via a signal to me to talk
Speaker 3: about some hopeful news in their search for answers.
Speaker 5: Well, Jackie's been dynamic as per usual. She's put in
Speaker 5: another RTI, which that means three.
Speaker 3: Amanda is a mum. How does it feel to sit
Speaker 3: with someone like Jackie so who's also he mum? And
Speaker 3: she was really vocal about talking. If this was her child,
Speaker 3: she would not stop and she's not going to stop
Speaker 3: until she gets the answers she needs about Eden. How
Speaker 3: does that make you feel?
Speaker 5: I am not quietly confident anymore.
Speaker 8: I'm super confident.
Speaker 5: Jackie is very, very fierce. She walks the walk and
Speaker 5: talks to talk. She believes in what she stands for.
Speaker 5: She believes in a decent society. Her morals are very
Speaker 5: much aligned with mine, just about across the board. Yeah, Jackie,
Speaker 5: I'm just super proud, super proud to be sitting.
Speaker 3: Sid Jason and Amanda. You had to go to Hobart
Speaker 3: last week and you were going for a meeting that
Speaker 3: you've been waiting for for a long time. Tell me
Speaker 3: who you met with.
Speaker 7: God by it Mate in his office standing home, and
Speaker 7: his assistant, senior assistant Amber.
Speaker 3: So for those that are listening at home, Guy Barnett
Speaker 3: is the current Attorney General of Tasmania.
Speaker 9: A Guy gave Amanda a hug and he shook my hand,
Speaker 9: and Amber gave us both a hug and immediately said
Speaker 9: that they're deeply sorry for what's happened to our family
Speaker 9: and to our daughter, and they wanted us. They reassured
Speaker 9: us that they are here to listen and to go
Speaker 9: through it with us today and to see where what
Speaker 9: they can do to help. And I again, Jay felt
Speaker 9: he was sincere. I felt Amber was very I sat
Speaker 9: beside Amber and Guy sat at the head of the table.
Speaker 9: Amanda sat opposite me.
Speaker 7: The rest of the seats were empty, obviously, and.
Speaker 10: At different times Amanda was with Guy having a conversation
Speaker 10: and I was talking to Amber and I don't want
Speaker 10: to get too personal, Jay, but you could see there
Speaker 10: was an emotion in Guy that was sad, and Amber
Speaker 10: she was quite upset when she was talking to me
Speaker 10: about certain parts of what we've experienced as a family,
Speaker 10: especially when Eden was left.
Speaker 7: Why she was that attected her.
Speaker 8: There was a lot of respect in the room, thinking
Speaker 8: I as soon as Guy embraced me, I'm afraid.
Speaker 5: I was useless from that point. I was in tears
Speaker 5: and sobbing somewhat throughout it, and gathered myself for a
Speaker 5: short time. But Jason really delivered. We went in with
Speaker 5: some speaking points, and we went in with not only
Speaker 5: the problem, but a solution, a strategy that we emailed
Speaker 5: to Ambers straight away so she could peruse through that
Speaker 5: as we were having our meeting, and Jason just went
Speaker 5: through our speaking points of.
Speaker 8: The last nine years.
Speaker 5: We got halfway through, and as I said, there was
Speaker 5: a lot of respect in the room.
Speaker 8: There was empathy there.
Speaker 5: There was probably a little shock about what we were presenting,
Speaker 5: I almost felt like, yeah, this was definitely the first
Speaker 5: in some cases of what they'd heard and seen.
Speaker 8: I felt like.
Speaker 5: Guy was prepared to talk about not being able to
Speaker 5: help us get the inquest opened the same path as
Speaker 5: we traveled with they did with Jari, And when we
Speaker 5: first started speaking, we thanked them for their time and
Speaker 5: then we said, we also understand that you can't help
Speaker 5: us with that. So I was just so upset when
Speaker 5: some people's names were mentioned throughout the speaking points, and
Speaker 5: everything for me has been right on the surface in
Speaker 5: terms of I'm feeling a little upset, as I said
Speaker 5: last time I spoke to you, and yeah, the lead
Speaker 5: up to Edie's birthday, the birthday and the after her
Speaker 5: birthday has been a different experience this time around for me,
Speaker 5: I've got to say. And I feel like it's almost
Speaker 5: that the support is so strong and the people are
Speaker 5: truly genuine and it's not just their words. When I'm
Speaker 5: talking about people like Jackie Lamby and the Torpedo and
Speaker 5: the Golden Thread, they've proven that they're in this for
Speaker 5: truth and justice and sincerely truth and justice. And as
Speaker 5: I said, Jackie's been in the picture for since twenty
Speaker 5: seventeen under the radar, not getting any publicity throughout that
Speaker 5: time from me, and now she's put it out there
Speaker 5: in full swim that she's one hundred percent behind this
Speaker 5: and has no intention in the backing down until we
Speaker 5: get solid answers and some.
Speaker 8: Real results.
Speaker 3: Just for clarity that mister Barnett, Guy Barnett, as the
Speaker 3: Attorney General can't do what he did or what was
Speaker 3: done by the Attorney General a lase archer at the
Speaker 3: time in the Weiss's case. He can't instruct the coroner
Speaker 3: to investigate Eden's death because the case is closed and
Speaker 3: the legislation doesn't allow for that to happen. As the
Speaker 3: attorney General.
Speaker 5: Well, that's what we know is fact. So we didn't
Speaker 5: want to go down that path with him to get
Speaker 5: a know and waste the time that we may have
Speaker 5: had with a meeting to share some of the content
Speaker 5: of our correspondence back and forth. And he was quite
Speaker 5: shocked at what was written to us some very high
Speaker 5: up people and really disappointed the.
Speaker 7: Questions that we wanted to speak to Guy about. I
Speaker 7: just was fortunate enough to have him in front of me,
Speaker 7: Jay and I was able to go through each bullet point,
Speaker 7: and as I did, I was asking Guy and Amber
Speaker 7: if there's any questions they needed to me to clarify
Speaker 7: on those bullet points or go into detail. Unfortunately, with
Speaker 7: Guy Jay, he only had one hour and I, as
Speaker 7: you know, I can talk pretty quick, mate, and I
Speaker 7: only got halfway through what we needed to discuss in
Speaker 7: that meeting. Guy explained and apologized he had to go
Speaker 7: to another meeting, and I could see on his rostered
Speaker 7: board he was in four meetings that day and he apologized.
Speaker 7: He said this, in no way this meeting is over.
Speaker 7: He said that whether it's another face to face sit
Speaker 7: down meeting with us, or whether this is a a correspondence,
Speaker 7: continual correspondence, we're going to get to the bottom of this,
Speaker 7: and we're going to be working with you guys to
Speaker 7: We need some correspondence from you guys, and we'll be
Speaker 7: in touch. And as we walked out at his office,
Speaker 7: there was probably twelve people waiting.
Speaker 5: For him to his wife and family. Yeah, and the
Speaker 5: wall to storm the way down and then you know,
Speaker 5: make sure.
Speaker 8: That we were assured that this very much the beginning
Speaker 8: of what we're embarking on for with Guy.
Speaker 10: So yeah, look he's asked for specific documentation. He asked
Speaker 10: us specific questions on a couple of subjects which.
Speaker 9: He was concerned with. Yeah, I'm happy to talk to
Speaker 9: you Jay about this off air because I just don't.
Speaker 7: Feel it's something I want to Yeah, and he would.
Speaker 8: Like to see what we have, and I've actually.
Speaker 3: We also reached out to Guy Barnett's office to see
Speaker 3: if he'd be willing to give an update on the podcast.
Speaker 3: It may be a little early for that, but we
Speaker 3: thought we'd try anyway. We're hoping to get a response
Speaker 3: next time on our Little LEADYE Don't Forget. You can
Speaker 3: sign the petition for an Independent Inquiry into Eden's death
Speaker 3: at change dot org. We've put the link in the
Speaker 3: show notes, and if you'd like, you can also join
Speaker 3: us for a special live recording of the podcast. Numbers
Speaker 3: are really limited and we're almost full, so if you'd
Speaker 3: like to join the waiting list, that link is also
Speaker 3: in the show notes.