1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:06,420 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,420 --> 00:00:09,420 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. We talk about technology quite a lot on Fear 3 00:00:09,420 --> 00:00:11,580 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, but the stories I like most are the 4 00:00:11,580 --> 00:00:15,179 Sean Aylmer: ones about companies using technology to make a difference. I 5 00:00:15,179 --> 00:00:18,600 Sean Aylmer: think this one falls into that category. Volpara Health Technologies 6 00:00:18,630 --> 00:00:21,030 Sean Aylmer: is an ASX listed company that says it has a 7 00:00:21,030 --> 00:00:25,650 Sean Aylmer: simple purpose: to save families from cancer. The technology is 8 00:00:25,650 --> 00:00:28,590 Sean Aylmer: used by healthcare providers around the world to understand cancer 9 00:00:28,590 --> 00:00:33,000 Sean Aylmer: risk and uses AI to improve medical imaging, particularly when 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,360 Sean Aylmer: it comes to detecting breast cancer. Teri Thomas is the 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,960 Sean Aylmer: Chief Executive Officer of Volpara Health. Teri, welcome to Fear 12 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:40,440 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 13 00:00:40,979 --> 00:00:41,610 Teri Thomas: Thank you. 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,420 Sean Aylmer: So tell me about the technology. What exactly does Volpara do? 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,598 Teri Thomas: I'm glad that you asked because sometimes people are a 16 00:00:48,598 --> 00:00:51,208 Teri Thomas: little bit confused. If they go for a mammogram and 17 00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:53,579 Teri Thomas: they see these big machines and they don't see Volpara's 18 00:00:53,580 --> 00:00:56,040 Teri Thomas: name on it, they wonder, well, what in the world 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,460 Teri Thomas: does Volpara do to save families from cancer? So breast 20 00:00:59,460 --> 00:01:01,980 Teri Thomas: cancer is our focus, although we cover other types of 21 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:05,819 Teri Thomas: cancer and we are a technology company. We don't create 22 00:01:05,819 --> 00:01:10,619 Teri Thomas: any machinery. We don't produce any hardware. We are strict technology. However, 23 00:01:10,619 --> 00:01:14,190 Teri Thomas: we use technology in three different main areas. The first 24 00:01:14,190 --> 00:01:19,200 Teri Thomas: area is identifying who is at risk of developing breast 25 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,950 Teri Thomas: and other cancers. A lot of people think that breast 26 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:27,149 Teri Thomas: cancer is heavily hereditary. And in some cases, about 10%, 27 00:01:27,450 --> 00:01:29,819 Teri Thomas: it is. But many cases, there are lots of other 28 00:01:29,819 --> 00:01:33,720 Teri Thomas: factors that determine someone's odds of getting cancer. So we 29 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,949 Teri Thomas: have several different algorithms and we harvest information from electronic 30 00:01:37,950 --> 00:01:41,700 Teri Thomas: medical records or from our portal and calculate out someone's 31 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:45,870 Teri Thomas: lifetime risk of carrying genes that might predispose them to 32 00:01:45,870 --> 00:01:49,110 Teri Thomas: cancer or other kinds of ways that they might be 33 00:01:49,110 --> 00:01:52,680 Teri Thomas: at risk for cancer. The second main thing we do 34 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,130 Teri Thomas: is we manage a whole lot about the operations in 35 00:01:56,130 --> 00:02:00,780 Teri Thomas: a mammography center. So managing getting the patient into the room, 36 00:02:01,110 --> 00:02:05,339 Teri Thomas: what the technologist puts in about the patient, gathering the 37 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:10,410 Teri Thomas: information from the machinery, the PAC (Programmable Automation Controller) systems together with our AI, 38 00:02:10,410 --> 00:02:14,790 Teri Thomas: assessing the quality of the images when someone gets a mammogram, 39 00:02:14,790 --> 00:02:17,640 Teri Thomas: which many people don't know is actually a type of x-ray, 40 00:02:18,059 --> 00:02:21,929 Teri Thomas: and serving that information in a comprehensive way and a quick 41 00:02:21,929 --> 00:02:25,440 Teri Thomas: way for a radiologist to be able to then report 42 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,799 Teri Thomas: back to the primary care doctor or the referring physician, 43 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,440 Teri Thomas: the results of that mammogram. By the way, we also 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,919 Teri Thomas: automate a whole lot of reporting in a very highly 45 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,919 Teri Thomas: regulated area, so we save a lot of time by 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,010 Teri Thomas: pulling together information and sending it to the governing bodies. 47 00:02:41,430 --> 00:02:44,850 Teri Thomas: But the other big area is related to breast density. 48 00:02:45,210 --> 00:02:51,060 Teri Thomas: So we apply our AI on the images of a mammogram. 49 00:02:51,270 --> 00:02:54,418 Teri Thomas: We assess everything about that image. Was it done correctly? 50 00:02:54,419 --> 00:02:57,358 Teri Thomas: Was the compression done right? Was the machinery working right? 51 00:02:57,630 --> 00:03:01,260 Teri Thomas: Was it positioned right? And then we actually analyse at 52 00:03:01,260 --> 00:03:05,400 Teri Thomas: a 3D level the tissue of that breast to calculate 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,049 Teri Thomas: an objective measurement of the density of that breast. Very 54 00:03:10,050 --> 00:03:13,500 Teri Thomas: fatty breasts, low density, you can't tell by looking at 55 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:15,599 Teri Thomas: it or squeezing it, but you can tell from looking 56 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:18,990 Teri Thomas: at a mammogram, those are lower risk of cancer, but 57 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:22,590 Teri Thomas: also much easier to find cancer on those types of breasts. 58 00:03:22,980 --> 00:03:28,169 Teri Thomas: Whereas very dense breasts show up on a mammogram as 59 00:03:28,469 --> 00:03:31,708 Teri Thomas: almost white or lots of gray that can hide cancer 60 00:03:31,710 --> 00:03:35,160 Teri Thomas: but it's also a risk factor. In fact, the most 61 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,900 Teri Thomas: significant risk factor for breast cancer. So that's what we do. 62 00:03:40,770 --> 00:03:43,620 Sean Aylmer: Okay. There's a lot in all that. A few things 63 00:03:43,620 --> 00:03:47,189 Sean Aylmer: I want to focus on. One is the fact that 64 00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:51,090 Sean Aylmer: you obviously work with a lot of third parties or stakeholders, 65 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,969 Sean Aylmer: how that goes. The second is in terms of the 66 00:03:54,060 --> 00:03:59,010 Sean Aylmer: mammograms and the use of technology to, I think I'm 67 00:03:59,010 --> 00:04:03,360 Sean Aylmer: right in saying it, Teri, to better improve results effectively. 68 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,239 Sean Aylmer: But let's come to that in a moment. How do 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,389 Sean Aylmer: you work? I mean, I remember someone asking Alan Greenspan 70 00:04:09,389 --> 00:04:12,299 Sean Aylmer: many years ago, the former US Federal Reserve, how they're 71 00:04:12,299 --> 00:04:14,700 Sean Aylmer: ever going to solve the health crisis and the blowout 72 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:17,580 Sean Aylmer: and costs, and he said "Technology will do it." His 73 00:04:17,580 --> 00:04:19,890 Sean Aylmer: point being, if you can get kind of health providers 74 00:04:19,890 --> 00:04:23,219 Sean Aylmer: to work together and use technology, you can make huge 75 00:04:23,309 --> 00:04:26,429 Sean Aylmer: leaps forward. That's kind of what you're trying to do 76 00:04:26,940 --> 00:04:28,770 Sean Aylmer: but from a disparate group of people. 77 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:33,210 Teri Thomas: Yes, it's interesting. I as CEO, love to spend time 78 00:04:33,210 --> 00:04:36,060 Teri Thomas: with customers and as much as I can. Many of 79 00:04:36,060 --> 00:04:38,490 Teri Thomas: our customers are in the United States, most of them. 80 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:41,310 Teri Thomas: And whenever I go to the US, I make sure 81 00:04:41,550 --> 00:04:45,690 Teri Thomas: to visit as many customers as possible. And 100% of 82 00:04:45,690 --> 00:04:49,289 Teri Thomas: our customers tell me this is a consistent answer. When 83 00:04:49,290 --> 00:04:52,500 Teri Thomas: I say, " What's your biggest problem?" They all say " Time. 84 00:04:52,860 --> 00:04:55,980 Teri Thomas: We don't have enough time to be able to catch 85 00:04:55,980 --> 00:04:58,740 Teri Thomas: up from COVID to get all of the women through. 86 00:04:58,889 --> 00:05:00,960 Teri Thomas: We don't have enough radiologists to read all of the 87 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,320 Teri Thomas: images. We don't have enough technologists. So we really, really 88 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,990 Teri Thomas: struggle with time." So as a technology company leveraging AI, 89 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,230 Teri Thomas: leveraging ways to speed up workflows, the key thing for 90 00:05:13,230 --> 00:05:17,039 Teri Thomas: us is can we free up time to allow a 91 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,249 Teri Thomas: radiologist to focus on what they're trained to do, which 92 00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:23,520 Teri Thomas: is look at the natty scary images in the middle, 93 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,419 Teri Thomas: and can we reduce the administrative overhead so that people 94 00:05:27,420 --> 00:05:29,940 Teri Thomas: can use their precious time to be able to get 95 00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:34,950 Teri Thomas: those patients through. So for us, that's why we exist. 96 00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:38,400 Sean Aylmer: I suppose my question is, are the providers all happy 97 00:05:38,730 --> 00:05:40,530 Sean Aylmer: to share their information with you? 98 00:05:40,740 --> 00:05:44,820 Teri Thomas: They are. You asked about partnerships as well. We work 99 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:48,900 Teri Thomas: with all of the mammography manufacturers. There are 38 of 100 00:05:48,900 --> 00:05:54,089 Teri Thomas: them out there, and we actually ingest their images. We 101 00:05:54,089 --> 00:05:58,529 Teri Thomas: work with Microsoft Azure as our base, and so we 102 00:05:58,529 --> 00:06:02,430 Teri Thomas: upload those images and analyze those images and provide insights. 103 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:05,370 Teri Thomas: And again, I don't think they would be willing to 104 00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:09,210 Teri Thomas: do it if number one, we weren't providing value. But 105 00:06:09,210 --> 00:06:13,170 Teri Thomas: number two, a big differentiator for us is a very, 106 00:06:13,170 --> 00:06:18,690 Teri Thomas: very strong information security infrastructure. So we pass some very, 107 00:06:18,690 --> 00:06:23,669 Teri Thomas: very rigorous security standards, and that creates enough trust that 108 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:27,029 Teri Thomas: our customers will enable us to be really a partner 109 00:06:27,029 --> 00:06:28,049 Teri Thomas: with them in the room. 110 00:06:28,589 --> 00:06:30,630 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Teri. We'll be back in a minute. 111 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:40,109 Sean Aylmer: I am speaking to Teri Thomas, CEO of Volpara Health 112 00:06:40,110 --> 00:06:44,550 Sean Aylmer: Technologies. What about artificial intelligence? You've mentioned it a couple 113 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:48,960 Sean Aylmer: of times and the use of AI. How far has 114 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,469 Sean Aylmer: the technology come in recent years, and will it go 115 00:06:52,469 --> 00:06:55,829 Sean Aylmer: in the next couple of years because of this revolution 116 00:06:55,829 --> 00:06:57,299 Sean Aylmer: for want of a better term in AI? 117 00:06:58,380 --> 00:07:01,979 Teri Thomas: I think revolution is absolutely the spot on correct term, 118 00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:05,370 Teri Thomas: and I think we've just begun to scratch the surface 119 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:09,089 Teri Thomas: of what we can do with AI. And Volpara does 120 00:07:09,089 --> 00:07:12,330 Teri Thomas: some amazing things right now, but I'm quite excited about 121 00:07:12,330 --> 00:07:15,570 Teri Thomas: the future. As I mentioned, I just came back from 122 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,130 Teri Thomas: meeting at Microsoft and the theme for sure from Satya 123 00:07:20,130 --> 00:07:26,340 Teri Thomas: Nadella was AI is where Microsoft is putting their bets. 124 00:07:26,670 --> 00:07:33,090 Teri Thomas: He actually shared that AI will create a hundred trillion 125 00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:37,110 Teri Thomas: GDP in terms of the impact of where this is going. 126 00:07:37,770 --> 00:07:41,340 Teri Thomas: We've worked with Microsoft side by side with some of 127 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:46,770 Teri Thomas: their engineers on developing new AI algorithms. For example, many 128 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:49,860 Teri Thomas: people don't know when you get a mammogram and we're 129 00:07:49,860 --> 00:07:53,700 Teri Thomas: looking for cancer. When you do the deep image analysis 130 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:56,190 Teri Thomas: that we do, we can actually look at each of 131 00:07:56,190 --> 00:07:59,609 Teri Thomas: the arteries that feeds the heart and the coronary arteries 132 00:08:00,150 --> 00:08:03,450 Teri Thomas: when they get calcium building up on the sides, that's 133 00:08:03,450 --> 00:08:08,520 Teri Thomas: actually a risk factor for heart disease. And heart disease, 134 00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:12,840 Teri Thomas: heart attacks in particular kill far more women than breast cancer, 135 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:16,920 Teri Thomas: and oftentimes strike without warning. A lot of women don't 136 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,910 Teri Thomas: realise that they've actually got problems with their heart as 137 00:08:20,910 --> 00:08:22,828 Teri Thomas: they go about their daily business until they have a 138 00:08:22,830 --> 00:08:26,850 Teri Thomas: heart attack. So for us, leveraging the power of AI 139 00:08:27,090 --> 00:08:30,900 Teri Thomas: and that analysis of those images to actually, as a 140 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:33,719 Teri Thomas: byproduct of watching for cancer, to send someone to the 141 00:08:33,719 --> 00:08:37,770 Teri Thomas: cardiologist and potentially alert them that they might need to 142 00:08:37,770 --> 00:08:42,059 Teri Thomas: go on a statin or some other preventative situation so 143 00:08:42,059 --> 00:08:44,790 Teri Thomas: they don't have a heart attack is one example of 144 00:08:44,790 --> 00:08:49,500 Teri Thomas: new AI. But there will be so many more, speeding 145 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:53,549 Teri Thomas: up workflows with generative AI, going through and figuring out 146 00:08:53,550 --> 00:08:56,759 Teri Thomas: what most likely is going to be the analysis of 147 00:08:56,759 --> 00:09:01,380 Teri Thomas: this image for a radiologist to simply review and approve 148 00:09:01,380 --> 00:09:05,340 Teri Thomas: versus generate themselves. It's speeding things up in every other 149 00:09:05,340 --> 00:09:07,679 Teri Thomas: industry and healthcare will be no different. 150 00:09:09,030 --> 00:09:12,480 Sean Aylmer: You mentioned Microsoft, and you've been there recently. You recently 151 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,990 Sean Aylmer: won the Microsoft Global Healthcare and Life Sciences Award, thousands 152 00:09:15,990 --> 00:09:19,950 Sean Aylmer: of nominations from about 100 countries. Nice work, Teri. What's it 153 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:20,550 Sean Aylmer: mean for you? 154 00:09:21,570 --> 00:09:26,520 Teri Thomas: Boy, I was delighted and surprised to actually be invited 155 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,139 Teri Thomas: to present about Volpara live at their Inspire conference just 156 00:09:31,139 --> 00:09:34,589 Teri Thomas: before Satya Nadella did his keynote. And so at one 157 00:09:34,590 --> 00:09:38,460 Teri Thomas: level, that was beautiful exposure for a company that's known 158 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:42,660 Teri Thomas: within the mammography circles, but in many cases in healthcare 159 00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:46,649 Teri Thomas: outside of mammography, an unknown name. And in fact, I 160 00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:51,089 Teri Thomas: didn't know about Volpara three years ago because it focuses 161 00:09:51,089 --> 00:09:53,759 Teri Thomas: on this one area. But as a company, we are 162 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,140 Teri Thomas: breaking out of mammography. We do cover other areas besides 163 00:09:58,140 --> 00:10:02,400 Teri Thomas: breast. We cover other cancers besides breast cancer. We've got 164 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,879 Teri Thomas: a grant from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise to do 165 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:12,359 Teri Thomas: some modeling of expanding to employers, to insurers. We want 166 00:10:12,359 --> 00:10:16,470 Teri Thomas: to get every woman starting at age 25 to understand 167 00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:19,710 Teri Thomas: her own personal risk of cancer, breast and others, and 168 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:23,460 Teri Thomas: have a personal plan to prevent cancer instead of just 169 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:27,389 Teri Thomas: early detection. So the relationship with Microsoft and the awards 170 00:10:27,389 --> 00:10:30,690 Teri Thomas: gave us some nice exposure. However, we do look forward 171 00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:33,240 Teri Thomas: to working with them as a partner on new models 172 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:36,510 Teri Thomas: and even things like bringing risk into Australia. 173 00:10:38,460 --> 00:10:39,900 Sean Aylmer: We're sort of running out of time, but I just 174 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:44,939 Sean Aylmer: mean your view on the outlook for Volpara, the US 175 00:10:44,940 --> 00:10:49,470 Sean Aylmer: government recently, the Food and Drug Administration made it mandatory 176 00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:52,800 Sean Aylmer: to notify women of their breast density. Does that change 177 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:53,790 Sean Aylmer: the outlook for you guys? 178 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:57,929 Teri Thomas: There are numerous tailwinds that are great for us. That's 179 00:10:57,929 --> 00:11:01,830 Teri Thomas: one of them. And it does validate the work that 180 00:11:01,830 --> 00:11:04,588 Teri Thomas: we do in the United States, but it's also something 181 00:11:04,590 --> 00:11:08,309 Teri Thomas: that people are looking at internationally. So we noticed that 182 00:11:08,309 --> 00:11:12,540 Teri Thomas: shortly after the FDA ruling I-MED in Australia made their 183 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:15,960 Teri Thomas: stance that they will inform women in Australia of their 184 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,049 Teri Thomas: breast density. And we're looking at, I'm going to be 185 00:11:19,049 --> 00:11:21,389 Teri Thomas: spending the month of September in Europe. There's a lot 186 00:11:21,389 --> 00:11:24,809 Teri Thomas: of buzz within Europe, country by country, will they follow 187 00:11:24,809 --> 00:11:28,708 Teri Thomas: suit with what they're doing in the United States? But 188 00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:33,000 Teri Thomas: that actually comes together with the United States Preventative Services 189 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,139 Teri Thomas: Task Force, who's now suggesting that people get mammograms at 190 00:11:37,139 --> 00:11:40,739 Teri Thomas: age 40 instead of age 50, The American College of 191 00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:45,030 Teri Thomas: Radiology publishing new guidelines, asking for risk assessment starting at 192 00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:49,200 Teri Thomas: age 25, and the National Accreditation Program for Breast Centers 193 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:54,270 Teri Thomas: in the US actually requiring for accreditation that a risk 194 00:11:54,270 --> 00:11:57,389 Teri Thomas: assessment be done on all of their women. So when 195 00:11:57,389 --> 00:12:00,238 Teri Thomas: you add these things up, and I'm going to put 196 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,429 Teri Thomas: it together with one thing that shocked me on my 197 00:12:02,429 --> 00:12:08,850 Teri Thomas: last trip, which is another national 10 time Emmy award winner, 198 00:12:09,059 --> 00:12:13,589 Teri Thomas: Jill Martin, she's a journalist, opened up last week to 199 00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:17,940 Teri Thomas: the nation about her breast cancer diagnosis. But with a 200 00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:21,988 Teri Thomas: message about each woman needs to understand her risk and 201 00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:26,970 Teri Thomas: ideally get genetic testing early. These things are really strong 202 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:30,929 Teri Thomas: supports for us to continue our growth and continuing our 203 00:12:30,929 --> 00:12:32,189 Teri Thomas: march to profitability. 204 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:34,830 Sean Aylmer: Teri, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 205 00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:36,000 Teri Thomas: You're welcome. 206 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,780 Sean Aylmer: That was Teri Thomas, Chief Executive Officer of Volpara Health 207 00:12:39,780 --> 00:12:42,750 Sean Aylmer: Technologies. This is the Fear and Greed Business interview. Join 208 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:45,030 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 209 00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:49,078 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's best business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.