1 00:00:03,990 --> 00:00:07,620 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. First 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:12,539 Sean Aylmer: Nations people are almost entirely absent from executive roles despite 3 00:00:12,570 --> 00:00:16,198 Sean Aylmer: making up 5% of the national workforce. And at the 4 00:00:16,199 --> 00:00:20,220 Sean Aylmer: same time, indigenous Australians are feeling the burden of cultural 5 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:25,110 Sean Aylmer: load, being tasked with educating others, including things like acknowledgements 6 00:00:25,110 --> 00:00:29,340 Sean Aylmer: of country. Yawuru/Bunuba woman Cara Peek is a lawyer and 7 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:33,750 Sean Aylmer: entrepreneur and the co- founder of Cultural IQ, an organization 8 00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:38,040 Sean Aylmer: providing culturally appropriate training to Australian businesses. Cara, welcome to 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:38,790 Sean Aylmer: Fear & Greed. 10 00:00:39,269 --> 00:00:39,540 Cara Peek: Thank you for having me. 11 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:44,340 Sean Aylmer: I mentioned in the introduction a statistic from last year's 12 00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:48,179 Sean Aylmer: Australian Indigenous Employment Index, which was released by the Minderoo 13 00:00:48,179 --> 00:00:52,680 Sean Aylmer: Foundation, which of course is funded by the Forrest family 14 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:56,460 Sean Aylmer: of Fortescue Metals fame. First Nations people fill only 0. 15 00:00:56,730 --> 00:01:01,260 Sean Aylmer: 7% of senior management positions across the country. It's kind 16 00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:05,730 Sean Aylmer: of confronting when 5% of the workforce are First Nations people. 17 00:01:06,509 --> 00:01:10,410 Cara Peek: Absolutely. But it's of no surprise to me. As you 18 00:01:10,410 --> 00:01:14,790 Cara Peek: mentioned, I'm a founder and entrepreneur, but I've also worked 19 00:01:14,790 --> 00:01:18,600 Cara Peek: as a solicitor in firms in the federal court and 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,800 Cara Peek: also worked in corporate in Australia. So I've often been 21 00:01:23,130 --> 00:01:28,589 Cara Peek: the only indigenous person and definitely only indigenous woman, either 22 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:32,760 Cara Peek: on a board or in executive or senior management roles. 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,590 Cara Peek: So no news to me there. 24 00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:37,589 Sean Aylmer: Are we getting any better at all? Is there any improvement? 25 00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:41,819 Cara Peek: I think that there is some improvement to a degree, 26 00:01:41,819 --> 00:01:44,730 Cara Peek: but really it's about the pipeline and it's creating a 27 00:01:44,730 --> 00:01:48,509 Cara Peek: critical path to success that has minimal cultural load and 28 00:01:48,510 --> 00:01:53,640 Cara Peek: maximum support. And that takes everybody else also increasing their 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,000 Cara Peek: Cultural IQ and their cultural intelligence to make that happen. 30 00:01:57,990 --> 00:02:01,379 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's talk about that. When you talk about 31 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:04,590 Sean Aylmer: Cultural IQ, what are you talking about? 32 00:02:05,190 --> 00:02:10,410 Cara Peek: So I'm talking about raising cultural intelligence. Now many people 33 00:02:10,410 --> 00:02:13,860 Cara Peek: are aware of the term of cultural awareness, and so 34 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:18,599 Cara Peek: that's just a general awareness of different cultures that exist 35 00:02:18,599 --> 00:02:22,529 Cara Peek: out there. You can then work towards cultural competence where 36 00:02:22,529 --> 00:02:26,520 Cara Peek: you have a higher degree of understanding of others, but 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,490 Cara Peek: also an understanding of yourself and how you navigate the 38 00:02:29,490 --> 00:02:32,760 Cara Peek: various cultures that we interact with on a daily basis. 39 00:02:32,970 --> 00:02:38,549 Cara Peek: That can be corporate, education, sporting, societal culture. Cultural intelligence 40 00:02:38,580 --> 00:02:43,559 Cara Peek: is getting into a space where you can actually easily kind 41 00:02:43,889 --> 00:02:48,330 Cara Peek: of traverse between the cultures. You can understand, unpacked and 42 00:02:48,330 --> 00:02:52,288 Cara Peek: recognise your own bias, how that affects your decision making, 43 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,300 Cara Peek: your thought processes, how you process information or react to information. 44 00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:01,110 Cara Peek: And then also go aways to understanding how other people 45 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:04,768 Cara Peek: do also and meeting in the middle for mutual benefit. 46 00:03:05,850 --> 00:03:09,510 Sean Aylmer: That's no easy task, Cara, though, to get to that point. 47 00:03:10,410 --> 00:03:14,069 Cara Peek: Oh, no, it's not. It actually takes a lot of self- reflection. 48 00:03:14,070 --> 00:03:17,369 Cara Peek: Like most things in life, the things worth fighting for 49 00:03:17,369 --> 00:03:21,060 Cara Peek: are often the hardest things to get and often take 50 00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:25,560 Cara Peek: the most work. So it is actually about self- reflecting, 51 00:03:25,590 --> 00:03:30,418 Cara Peek: recognising and rewiring, and doing it as a daily practice. 52 00:03:30,419 --> 00:03:32,429 Cara Peek: There are many things that we do as a daily 53 00:03:32,429 --> 00:03:36,450 Cara Peek: practice and creating a culturally safe environment, whether it be at 54 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,600 Cara Peek: the workplace or in your family or in your sporting club, 55 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:43,440 Cara Peek: is just as important as the things like mindfulness, it's 56 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,080 Cara Peek: part of leadership. And so it's something that you kind 57 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,529 Cara Peek: of have to commit to and understand that everybody's different, 58 00:03:49,530 --> 00:03:51,360 Cara Peek: but that's not necessarily a bad thing. 59 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,720 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so let's talk about the workplace since we're Fear & Greed 60 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,410 Sean Aylmer: here, which is a business podcast. I mean, companies do 61 00:03:58,410 --> 00:04:02,309 Sean Aylmer: make a thing of employing culturally diverse groups. It might 62 00:04:02,309 --> 00:04:05,820 Sean Aylmer: be First Australians, it may be people with English as 63 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:08,879 Sean Aylmer: a second language, it may be people from overseas, et 64 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,860 Sean Aylmer: cetera. But employing is probably 20% of it. Actually making 65 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,390 Sean Aylmer: individuals feel comfortable in the workplace and having that sort 66 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:21,899 Sean Aylmer: of cultural IQ though, that must take a lot of 67 00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:24,719 Sean Aylmer: work for a company to actually fulfill what it needs 68 00:04:24,719 --> 00:04:25,080 Sean Aylmer: to do. 69 00:04:25,860 --> 00:04:27,989 Cara Peek: Absolutely. I mean, it's a lot of work, but it's 70 00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:31,260 Cara Peek: also important to look at it as absolute risk mitigation. 71 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:35,580 Cara Peek: It reduces legal risk, OH& S risk and all those 72 00:04:35,580 --> 00:04:39,389 Cara Peek: types of things to creating shared understanding and a common 73 00:04:39,389 --> 00:04:44,490 Cara Peek: communication methodology as well. Because the biggest downfall in this space, 74 00:04:44,549 --> 00:04:49,560 Cara Peek: much like any relationship breakdown, will be in communication. And 75 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,970 Cara Peek: so you can embed it in the organisation through an 76 00:04:53,970 --> 00:05:00,419 Cara Peek: auditing process, through consistent continual cultural training that takes people 77 00:05:00,420 --> 00:05:04,350 Cara Peek: on a journey. Because it is a lifelong journey. It's 78 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:10,500 Cara Peek: not something that we're saying that business needs to implement 100%, 79 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,650 Cara Peek: and job done, tick the box and it's done. It 80 00:05:13,650 --> 00:05:16,709 Cara Peek: is about continuous learning from the shop floor to the 81 00:05:16,710 --> 00:05:21,000 Cara Peek: board and back again. And in that process it can be 82 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:27,270 Cara Peek: embedded in systems, audits, checks, et cetera, much like anything else 83 00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:30,330 Cara Peek: would be, and in fact can bolster the bottom line, 84 00:05:30,630 --> 00:05:35,880 Cara Peek: increase productivity, focus and output generally. And also, as you said, 85 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,138 Cara Peek: recruitment's one piece. This is about retention and growth and 86 00:05:40,139 --> 00:05:42,060 Cara Peek: innovation in that growth as well. 87 00:05:42,510 --> 00:05:44,670 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Cara. We'll be back in a minute. 88 00:05:50,910 --> 00:05:54,299 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Cara Peak, co- founder of Cultural IQ. 89 00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:59,400 Sean Aylmer: Okay, I wanted to talk to you about cultural load, L- O- A- 90 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,589 Sean Aylmer: D, cultural load. It's not just being asked to do 91 00:06:01,589 --> 00:06:04,830 Sean Aylmer: the acknowledgement of country. It's a broader expectation that First 92 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:09,450 Sean Aylmer: Nations teams members will educate others. What's it look like, 93 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:13,410 Sean Aylmer: cultural load, and is it a real challenge for companies? 94 00:06:14,099 --> 00:06:16,559 Cara Peek: It most definitely is a real challenge for companies and 95 00:06:16,559 --> 00:06:20,670 Cara Peek: a real challenge for employees in their role in companies. 96 00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:23,070 Cara Peek: So just imagine that you are, you don't have to 97 00:06:23,070 --> 00:06:26,309 Cara Peek: be indigenous, you could be South Asian, you could be African, 98 00:06:26,309 --> 00:06:31,139 Cara Peek: whatever your culture is, coming into an organisation and having 99 00:06:31,139 --> 00:06:36,000 Cara Peek: everybody in that organisation look to you to educate them 100 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:38,940 Cara Peek: on what they perceive to be the issues with your 101 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:42,150 Cara Peek: community or with your culture. You might be a graphic 102 00:06:42,150 --> 00:06:48,660 Cara Peek: artist and have no formal training in cultural education, or 103 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:52,080 Cara Peek: in training and development or education in general. But they're 104 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,279 Cara Peek: looking to you because you look like what they perceive 105 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,710 Cara Peek: to be the person that can provide them with the 106 00:06:58,710 --> 00:07:02,280 Cara Peek: answers when all you actually want to do is go in, 107 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,939 Cara Peek: do your job, earn your salary, and go home. And 108 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:08,760 Cara Peek: so that's not an unreasonable expectation when you go to work. 109 00:07:09,570 --> 00:07:13,440 Cara Peek: But also with the cultural load, people aren't getting paid 110 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,010 Cara Peek: any more to provide that education. They're not getting paid 111 00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:21,030 Cara Peek: any more, and their position descriptions aren't being adjusted to 112 00:07:21,030 --> 00:07:25,830 Cara Peek: accommodate for that additional load. It's just an expectation. It's 113 00:07:25,830 --> 00:07:29,489 Cara Peek: incumbent on the employer as well as the individuals that 114 00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:34,740 Cara Peek: are asking this to, A, provide education opportunities for the workforce, 115 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,950 Cara Peek: but B, take it upon themselves to do some self- 116 00:07:37,950 --> 00:07:39,150 Cara Peek: education as well. 117 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:42,299 Sean Aylmer: I suppose that's to be, I mean, I ran newsrooms 118 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:45,389 Sean Aylmer: and literally had hundreds of people working with me or, 119 00:07:45,389 --> 00:07:48,240 Sean Aylmer: I mean, kind of in the structure, but at times 120 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,610 Sean Aylmer: I was kind of afraid, I can't say of First 121 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:55,110 Sean Aylmer: Nations people, but certainly involving some religions, for example. I 122 00:07:55,140 --> 00:07:58,349 Sean Aylmer: was almost, certainly I was unaware, and when I became 123 00:07:58,349 --> 00:08:01,800 Sean Aylmer: aware of some of this cultural load or cultural IQ, 124 00:08:02,849 --> 00:08:06,179 Sean Aylmer: it was actually quite the middle- aged white bloke, me, 125 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,780 Sean Aylmer: became quite nervous about how to even behave around it. 126 00:08:10,590 --> 00:08:12,330 Sean Aylmer: Is it about, I mean, I suppose it comes back 127 00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:14,220 Sean Aylmer: to communication is what you're going to tell me, Cara, 128 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:16,499 Sean Aylmer: here. But I think there's a lot of confusion out 129 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:18,540 Sean Aylmer: there and certainly I found myself in the workplace, because 130 00:08:18,540 --> 00:08:19,799 Sean Aylmer: the last thing I wanted to do was the wrong 131 00:08:19,799 --> 00:08:22,170 Sean Aylmer: thing. But then you'd find yourself you weren't doing anything. 132 00:08:23,340 --> 00:08:27,660 Cara Peek: Absolutely. People get paralysed by fear instead of stepping into 133 00:08:27,660 --> 00:08:31,980 Cara Peek: the fear with a healthy and respectful curiosity. And so 134 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:37,889 Cara Peek: also it's about sharing your own lived experience, but creating an 135 00:08:37,889 --> 00:08:42,780 Cara Peek: environment where, it's coined as listening in colour. So when 136 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:46,439 Cara Peek: you listen in colour, you are there ready to hear 137 00:08:46,740 --> 00:08:51,330 Cara Peek: what the person is saying rather than to impose what 138 00:08:51,330 --> 00:08:56,790 Cara Peek: your lived experience is on that person and to recognize 139 00:08:56,790 --> 00:09:00,600 Cara Peek: that their experience may be different. And you can gradually 140 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:06,210 Cara Peek: grow your relationships. You gradually grow your knowledge as well. 141 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:08,639 Cara Peek: Much the same as when you make a new friend, 142 00:09:08,670 --> 00:09:14,219 Cara Peek: just as every normal person would do, use tit for tat, right? 143 00:09:14,219 --> 00:09:16,468 Cara Peek: You learn a little bit, you share a little bit, 144 00:09:16,469 --> 00:09:20,280 Cara Peek: and those types of things gradually build on each other. 145 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,490 Cara Peek: And you must move at the speed of trust. So 146 00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:26,400 Cara Peek: the people that are providing the information to you, they 147 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,858 Cara Peek: need to trust that you're going to hear it, you're 148 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,620 Cara Peek: going to respect it. You might acknowledge it's different to 149 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:34,049 Cara Peek: your lived experience, but you are not going to go 150 00:09:34,049 --> 00:09:37,440 Cara Peek: quickly to judgment. And then it's the same on the 151 00:09:37,469 --> 00:09:41,848 Cara Peek: flip side. They will listen to you and as you said, 152 00:09:41,850 --> 00:09:44,189 Cara Peek: it all comes down to communication. Of course I'm going 153 00:09:44,190 --> 00:09:47,400 Cara Peek: to say that. But it's also a huge part to 154 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:53,670 Cara Peek: do with unpacking and working on yourself, understanding why you 155 00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:56,760 Cara Peek: think the way that you do and make decisions the 156 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,340 Cara Peek: way that you do and feel the way that you do. 157 00:09:59,670 --> 00:10:04,949 Cara Peek: And that takes time because we've all had different experiences 158 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:07,920 Cara Peek: that impact the way we view the world. 159 00:10:09,299 --> 00:10:12,569 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So tell me about the Cultural Intelligence Project, your project, 160 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:15,150 Sean Aylmer: what sort of response have you had to it thus far? 161 00:10:16,170 --> 00:10:19,500 Cara Peek: So the Cultural Intelligence Project is the social enterprise or 162 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:23,369 Cara Peek: profit for purpose organisation to raise the cultural intelligence of 163 00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:27,208 Cara Peek: our nation for the advancement of First Peoples. And one part of 164 00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:32,820 Cara Peek: that is Cultural IQ, which is the Cultural IQ program. And in that, 165 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,900 Cara Peek: we've had a great response. So we launched on January 26, 166 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:40,290 Cara Peek: and this was after many, many years of live delivery 167 00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:43,289 Cara Peek: in variety of formats. But we felt like we couldn't 168 00:10:43,290 --> 00:10:48,389 Cara Peek: scale and meet the need of our community, but also 169 00:10:48,389 --> 00:10:54,540 Cara Peek: of Australian society, because it unpacks cultural bias, which everybody holds, 170 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:58,559 Cara Peek: doesn't matter if you're indigenous or not. And in that 171 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:02,999 Cara Peek: it is applicable across industry. So we have had people 172 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,680 Cara Peek: take it up from agriculture, carbon farming, the legal fraternity, 173 00:11:07,710 --> 00:11:14,460 Cara Peek: private philanthropy, government departments. And it really touches every industry 174 00:11:14,460 --> 00:11:17,939 Cara Peek: because every industry has a variety of people in it 175 00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:22,799 Cara Peek: and a variety of cultural challenges. People have responded quite 176 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:27,840 Cara Peek: well to the content. Obviously we'd done our market research beforehand, 177 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,760 Cara Peek: but we knew there was nothing else like it on 178 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,090 Cara Peek: the market. And that has been proven, and that's the 179 00:11:33,090 --> 00:11:39,179 Cara Peek: feedback we've also gotten. It's like university level knowledge delivered 180 00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:42,358 Cara Peek: in a manner that the man on the street or 181 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,470 Cara Peek: woman on the street can understand and resonate with, with 182 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,669 Cara Peek: live examples from a First Nations worldview, obviously, because we're 183 00:11:50,670 --> 00:11:56,460 Cara Peek: Aboriginal people, but with other cultural inputs and examples as 184 00:11:56,460 --> 00:12:01,350 Cara Peek: well from our own familial connections, but other cultures that 185 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:05,520 Cara Peek: we've engaged with or worked with as well. So really 186 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,440 Cara Peek: great response. More and more people are inquiring about it 187 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,349 Cara Peek: and are realising that it doesn't matter if you're in 188 00:12:13,349 --> 00:12:16,590 Cara Peek: a small nonprofit or if you're at the top end 189 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:21,689 Cara Peek: of town, it is applicable throughout industry and throughout the business. 190 00:12:24,330 --> 00:12:25,860 Sean Aylmer: So people who want to know more about it, what should they be looking up? 191 00:12:26,730 --> 00:12:33,000 Cara Peek: So just go to culturaliq.com.au and go on there and 192 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,179 Cara Peek: there's more information there. You can book a discovery call 193 00:12:36,330 --> 00:12:41,760 Cara Peek: with myself or my co- founder, Adele, and also obviously 194 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,640 Cara Peek: we have all the requisite information on the website, in the 195 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:47,219 Cara Peek: discovery call, or you can purchase it right then and 196 00:12:47,219 --> 00:12:51,598 Cara Peek: there. You can also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and 197 00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:56,490 Cara Peek: basically just take the first step to understand what lenses 198 00:12:56,490 --> 00:13:00,390 Cara Peek: you might be viewing the world with and how they 199 00:13:00,390 --> 00:13:04,020 Cara Peek: either are or are not serving you in your daily 200 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:06,660 Cara Peek: life, whether it be in the workplace or whether it 201 00:13:06,660 --> 00:13:11,309 Cara Peek: be in decisions as big as how you're going to 202 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:15,328 Cara Peek: vote in the referendum later this year. It's all interwoven 203 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,980 Cara Peek: and you will definitely learn some new things. You'll be 204 00:13:19,980 --> 00:13:23,910 Cara Peek: challenged, but you're challenged in a safe learning environment is the 205 00:13:23,969 --> 00:13:26,639 Cara Peek: general feedback that we've been getting from people, that they 206 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:30,780 Cara Peek: feel tested enough that they're intrigued, but safe enough that 207 00:13:30,780 --> 00:13:32,700 Cara Peek: they can reflect and ask a question. 208 00:13:33,660 --> 00:13:35,429 Sean Aylmer: Good luck with it, Cara, and thank you for talking 209 00:13:35,429 --> 00:13:36,270 Sean Aylmer: to Fear & Greed. 210 00:13:37,020 --> 00:13:38,160 Cara Peek: Thank you very much for having me. 211 00:13:38,970 --> 00:13:42,749 Sean Aylmer: That was Cara Peek, co- founder of Cultural IQ. This is 212 00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:45,030 Sean Aylmer: the Fear & Greed daily interview. You join us every morning 213 00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:47,759 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's most popular 214 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,760 Sean Aylmer: business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.