Speaker 1: Welcome to How Do They Have? Follow That, the podcast
Speaker 1: that peeks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm
Speaker 1: Michael Thompson. I'm an author and the co host of
Speaker 1: the podcast Fear and Greed. As always, I'm with Canna Campbell,
Speaker 1: financial planner and founder of Sugar Number TV, the financial
Speaker 1: literacy platform that you will find just about everywhere.
Speaker 2: Like Canna, good morning.
Speaker 1: We've all made money mistakes.
Speaker 3: We certainly have, and I like that that can be big,
Speaker 3: they could be small, like missed bills and bad investments,
Speaker 3: impulse buys yep, didn't mean to look machine sell the
Speaker 3: light machines.
Speaker 1: Yes, you mentioned that one before, but most of us
Speaker 1: keep quiet about them, about the mistakes that we make. Today,
Speaker 1: we're asking why why that is? Why do we hide
Speaker 1: our money mistakes? And what happens when we do start
Speaker 1: talking about them? Shall we start with our own mistakes?
Speaker 2: Yes, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's actually specifically start with your mistake. What's the worst
Speaker 1: money mistake that you've made?
Speaker 2: I sold a property and at the time money was tight.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a single mum and juggling a lot,
Speaker 2: and I got talked into selling it and I take
Speaker 2: not blaming that person at all, but I kind of
Speaker 2: had lost sight of my own goals and my own
Speaker 2: capability of being resilient and strong and pushing through because
Speaker 2: I'd actually survived a lot tougher financial pressure previously, and
Speaker 2: these things were tight, but they weren't nearly as tight
Speaker 2: as what I had gone through previously and gotten through right,
Speaker 2: And I almost saw selling the property as my reward
Speaker 2: to quit. And I massively regret selling it because I
Speaker 2: didn't really need to sell it.
Speaker 1: Wow, and do you think about it now? Do you
Speaker 1: do you kind of still look back and go if
Speaker 1: I'd kept that, it would be worth x amount now?
Speaker 1: Or do you dwell on it? Or have you been
Speaker 1: able to let it go?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I dwell on it, but I regret is.
Speaker 2: It's a tough feeling, but it's also a great teacher.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I've learned my lesson about being
Speaker 2: very careful of people's best. You know, this particular person
Speaker 2: had the best intentions at heart, but foolishly and naively
Speaker 2: I forgot to account for the fact that they didn't
Speaker 2: know anything about my story, my goals, and my ability
Speaker 2: to be financially resilient and strong through tough times. So
Speaker 2: it is what it is. There's nothing I can do
Speaker 2: to go back in time and undo that and buy
Speaker 2: the property back. But you know, I just have to
Speaker 2: make sure I don't make the same mistake again. Okay,
Speaker 2: what about you?
Speaker 1: Mine is probably some bad investments, I think, And this
Speaker 1: is actually why are you laughing?
Speaker 2: Guess is prior to meeting me?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, well, well, well prior and so this
Speaker 1: was fooling myself into thinking that I could pick stocks, okay, right,
Speaker 1: And so I suspect I am not alone in this
Speaker 1: because picking stocks is a really difficult thing to do,
Speaker 1: and it is a high risk investment strategy where you're
Speaker 1: kind of putting a lot of your eggs into one
Speaker 1: basket because you think that that is a company that's
Speaker 1: going to go well. And as was the case with
Speaker 1: me at the time, I did not know enough to
Speaker 1: do that. My research was not deep enough. What I
Speaker 1: did research, I don't think I fully understood as well.
Speaker 1: And then when I'm like, okay, all right, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do this, I think I was investing more on
Speaker 1: hype and hope as well, and not on sound financial strategy.
Speaker 1: And as a result, I lost a significant amount of money.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, and do you dwell on and feel? How
Speaker 2: do you feel about it?
Speaker 1: I have learned from it. I have learned not to
Speaker 1: do that again because I still have them. I still
Speaker 1: own those shares that I bought back then, because to
Speaker 1: sell them now would be to crystallize that loss. I
Speaker 1: would lock that in. And so I suppose I still
Speaker 1: cling to a little bit of hope that one day
Speaker 1: they'll come good. But also they are there pretty much
Speaker 1: as a reminder that we all make mistakes, but that
Speaker 1: some mistakes are avoidable, and that was an avoidable mistake.
Speaker 1: And so what I've learned from that is to know
Speaker 1: your own limitations, to understand that there are professionals out
Speaker 1: there who do this every single day, and even they
Speaker 1: still get it wrong right, And so it taught me
Speaker 1: the importance of getting good advice and financial advice. And
Speaker 1: that's probably the most tangible thing that's come out of this,
Speaker 1: that I don't want to do that again. I don't
Speaker 1: want to try and make these investment decisions on my
Speaker 1: own and try and and do this research when I
Speaker 1: don't didn't really understand what I was looking at. And
Speaker 1: so now we are getting really good financial advice and
Speaker 1: have a much better investment strategy around it than just
Speaker 1: picking a stock and hoping that it turns into the
Speaker 1: next kind of in video or the next after pay
Speaker 1: or something like that and goes through the roof. Because
Speaker 1: that's really what I was doing, and I learned from that.
Speaker 1: So there you go. That's how about that. It's a
Speaker 1: bit of an honesty session in here today.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is good, quite cathartic.
Speaker 1: Oh, I feel better. I feel like we could finish now,
Speaker 1: except we're only at kind of five and a half
Speaker 1: five and a half minutes. Why do you think it's
Speaker 1: so hard to talk about these things? Why is it
Speaker 1: that money mistakes are so hard for people to admit,
Speaker 1: even to family and close friends. I mean, we just
Speaker 1: did it just then, But I mean I generally don't
Speaker 1: talk about that kind of thing very often.
Speaker 2: How do you feel safe with me?
Speaker 1: I don't because it feels like you are just waiting
Speaker 1: for me to sleep up.
Speaker 2: It's very expensive mistake. Yeah, yeah, Look, money isn't just
Speaker 2: the dollars. It's the emotions. It's the identity that we
Speaker 2: attached to money and self worth. And people equate financial
Speaker 2: mistakes with failure, with incompetence, in immaturity, and many of
Speaker 2: us were raised where talking about money was, you know, taboo.
Speaker 2: So when something goes wrong, we go silent, we bury
Speaker 2: the evidence, we don't talk about it, you know, we
Speaker 2: don't talk about our failures, and we would rather carry
Speaker 2: around that shame than risk that visible judgment comes from.
Speaker 2: But really, once you're like, I'm not judging you, and
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure you're not judging me. But I really
Speaker 2: think that when we open up, we are being incredibly
Speaker 2: brave and really authentic when we do that.
Speaker 1: The thing I like about it as well is that
Speaker 1: you can learn so much about it, Oh yeah, from
Speaker 1: your mistakes, from other people's mistakes, and I know that
Speaker 1: then I've taken so much out of that, And now
Speaker 1: I find it so interesting talking to investors and professionals
Speaker 1: in that space and just seeing what they can tell
Speaker 1: you and see what their mistakes were, and see kind
Speaker 1: of the potential path that you can take, and it
Speaker 1: is so fascinating. Do you think that this idea of
Speaker 1: not wanting to share mistakes? Does it start early? Does
Speaker 1: is it come from kind of childhood? Is it about
Speaker 1: the way you're raised around money, where does it come from.
Speaker 1: Is it financial shame? I suppose.
Speaker 2: I actually think financial shame starts when we develop awareness.
Speaker 2: So people make mistakes with money every single day, overspending,
Speaker 2: missing bills, emotional purchases. But if you don't understand the
Speaker 2: impact of that, you don't feel the shame. So it's
Speaker 2: not until you actually gain even a small amount of
Speaker 2: financial education or even like self awareness, that you can
Speaker 2: actually feel that sense of regret. And that's when that
Speaker 2: it really starts to kick in and you feel that
Speaker 2: uncomfortable realization of I should have known better, and you
Speaker 2: know that can obviously then be compounded by what we
Speaker 2: learn as we continue. You know, as we grow up,
Speaker 2: we learn more and more. So money beliefs, yes, they're inherited,
Speaker 2: but you know, it also is add as to how
Speaker 2: much we are aware as to the irresponsible or the
Speaker 2: regretful mistakes we make over time. And so yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's the actual I don't think it's necessarily
Speaker 2: imprinted in us. I think it's very much linked to awareness.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the danger then in hiding these mistakes and
Speaker 1: instead of just talking about them openly? Is it the
Speaker 1: fact that you won't learn about them. Is it the
Speaker 1: fact that you run the risk of repeating them if
Speaker 1: you don't acknowledge it.
Speaker 2: Look shame thrives in silence. So when people hide, for example, debt,
Speaker 2: you know, which is really common, regret or missed repayments
Speaker 2: or poor investment decisions, the problems actually almost take over
Speaker 2: and can almost like paralyze you going forward, like almost
Speaker 2: like a parasite. So there's you know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of danger in just not airing it, you know, and
Speaker 2: then obviously it can lead to financial avoidance, further unopened bills,
Speaker 2: if you've been missing bills, it can impact your ability
Speaker 2: to borrow further down the track if you've had a
Speaker 2: debt repayment history. It also can isolate people, It can
Speaker 2: take its toll on their mental health, and you know,
Speaker 2: can actually sometimes make people. Then the problem can spread
Speaker 2: further like a parasite and become really toxic, and it
Speaker 2: goes from not just overspending, but now it's gambling as well.
Speaker 2: So it is really important to open up. And you know,
Speaker 2: the saying a problem shared is a problem halved, you know,
Speaker 2: I think this is really important that we take ownership
Speaker 2: and accountability, but we also let other people know what's
Speaker 2: going on and where we went wrong.
Speaker 1: Okay. Is that then, if that's the danger in hiding money,
Speaker 1: the benefit of talking about it actually makes us better
Speaker 1: with money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're replacing the shame with learning.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's simple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a simple action.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I think we need to take a
Speaker 1: quick break when we come back. It is I'd like
Speaker 1: to know some examples, if you've got them, of people
Speaker 1: kind of taking financial mistakes and turning them into a
Speaker 1: positive thing, what they've learned from it. But also what
Speaker 1: about in a relationship as well, how couples can navigate
Speaker 1: money mistakes together without blame, without guilt, Because we know
Speaker 1: that money can be such a challenging thing in a relationship,
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden, if you're trying to hide
Speaker 1: a money mistake from a partner, then it just spirals.
Speaker 1: And so I want to kind of know how to
Speaker 1: navigate that part as well. Back in a moment, can
Speaker 1: we are talking today about money mistakes and why we
Speaker 1: hide our money mistakes and the benefit then of not
Speaker 1: hiding our money mistakes and talking about it quite openly,
Speaker 1: how do we change? How do we just start being
Speaker 1: more transparent about finances, is it do you do? You
Speaker 1: need to start with being honest with yourself before you're
Speaker 1: starting to talk about it with other people.
Speaker 2: Yes, like having that in a conversation yourself going all right,
Speaker 2: I stuffed up, I made a big mistake and is
Speaker 2: now time to face the music. So what I would
Speaker 2: recommend anyone does is actually write it down, you know,
Speaker 2: write down the mistake. You know, it might be some
Speaker 2: money that you owe or the investment you made. Just
Speaker 2: write it down because that awareness is incredibly healing. And
Speaker 2: then I recommend people also write down the emotions that
Speaker 2: are attached to this, you know, the guilt, the fear,
Speaker 2: the shame, the embarrassment, you know, just because that helps
Speaker 2: release it. And then I would recommend someone going you
Speaker 2: can find someone that you can confide in, you know,
Speaker 2: someone that you know will keep what you're sharing confidential,
Speaker 2: will not judge you, but will also help you move
Speaker 2: from this so that it can be a turning point.
Speaker 2: This is your rock bottom and nothing is going to
Speaker 2: get worse than what has happened here, so that you
Speaker 2: can move forward from this point on and do it
Speaker 2: in the right way so that you don't repeat history
Speaker 2: and you get a great learning lesson and you actually
Speaker 2: turn it around to be actually a really powerful pivotal
Speaker 2: point in your life where it actually has served you
Speaker 2: in a positive way, even though at at times it
Speaker 2: feels horrific and horrible and like a dirty secret. So
Speaker 2: they're the first steps. And I think you know, your
Speaker 2: story is a classic example, because you made a bad investment,
Speaker 2: you got caught up in the emotions and the excitement,
Speaker 2: and you know, you left that rational thinking at the door.
Speaker 2: And now look where you are financially. You're getting great advice,
Speaker 2: you're getting strategic advice, You're being intentional with your money.
Speaker 2: It's almost like a blessing in disguise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think something positive has certainly come out
Speaker 1: of that. Have you seen other examples of that of
Speaker 1: people taking financial mistakes and it becomes almost a positive
Speaker 1: turning point within their lives?
Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, so many, And your story is not
Speaker 2: uncommon at all. You know, that is often the reason
Speaker 2: why people will go and lose a whole pile of
Speaker 2: money on this penny stock or the tip they got
Speaker 2: from a taxi driver or a friend at the pub,
Speaker 2: and they blow a whole pile of money, and then
Speaker 2: they go oh my goodness, I got this so wrong.
Speaker 2: I now need to do this properly and do this
Speaker 2: the right way, in the smart way. And that's quite often,
Speaker 2: you know, why people would come and see me, because
Speaker 2: they needed to start all over again. All the other
Speaker 2: side is people just getting into a whole pile of
Speaker 2: credit card debt.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I remember when someone came and saw me, they had
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty thousand dollars across multiple credit cards.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it was at that point they were like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I need a plan and I need to just stop
Speaker 2: this from happening. I need someone to help guide me
Speaker 2: out of this and get me to the stage. I'm
Speaker 2: not fun interest. I'm actually building an investment portfolio or
Speaker 2: paying off a home, you know, doing this. So this
Speaker 2: is very very common, and you know, we see in
Speaker 2: all sorts of facets of life. You know, people you
Speaker 2: know put on a bit of weight and you know,
Speaker 2: get sick, and that's their catalyst for really healthy eating
Speaker 2: and changing their life around. So it's not just just money,
Speaker 2: but it's the moment you stop hiding and start owning it.
Speaker 2: That's when things start to change and you feel that
Speaker 2: sense of release and relief. And it all starts with Okay,
Speaker 2: I need help. It's got to come from you. It's
Speaker 2: got to come from within.
Speaker 1: Okay. What about then in a relationship? And I alluded
Speaker 1: to this before that in a couple there is an
Speaker 1: added complication there. How does a couple navigate money mistakes
Speaker 1: without blame? Without guilt? Is it all just we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, communication, just talking open and honestly it is.
Speaker 2: But it's also the way that you talk about it, okay, So,
Speaker 2: and the approach and the language you use and the
Speaker 2: tone of your voice, you know, so approaching it as
Speaker 2: a team, not as competing opponents. It's not about, you know, blaming.
Speaker 2: So a great way of doing this is talking it
Speaker 2: with a sense of curiosity, like, you know, can you
Speaker 2: help me understand how this happened? Rather than why did
Speaker 2: you go and do that? What we're thinking? Like, that's
Speaker 2: a lot more aggressive approach and focus on the solutions
Speaker 2: not the actual shame. So questions like all right, how
Speaker 2: do we prevent this from happening again? Or how can
Speaker 2: we fix this as quickly as we possibly can together?
Speaker 2: Or what is that we need to do to repair
Speaker 2: this so that we can continue on working on those
Speaker 2: goals and dreams, you know, really come back to what
Speaker 2: the big picture is, what does it really want. We
Speaker 2: can often get caught up in the damage and the
Speaker 2: destruction of that situation which doesn't really have beyond a
Speaker 2: point and actually can sometimes make people more defensive and
Speaker 2: more hurt and it just things can then spiral out
Speaker 2: of control. But when you focus on all, right, this
Speaker 2: is where we're trying to get to, what are the
Speaker 2: things we need to do so you know that solution
Speaker 2: above the line, you know, mindset, and it's not about
Speaker 2: you know, who made the mistake, it's about how you
Speaker 2: both recover and how it to actually solidify your relationship.
Speaker 2: You know, I've spoken about this before. We've had friends
Speaker 2: where one's a massive spender, one's you know, a saver,
Speaker 2: and they've been able to turn things around where they're
Speaker 2: now on the same page together and you know, they're
Speaker 2: smashing goals and they're motivated and it's actually made them
Speaker 2: a much stronger couple and they're so united, which is
Speaker 2: really powerful. So it doesn't it doesn't need to necessarily
Speaker 2: destroy you. It can actually bring you together and realize
Speaker 2: how strong you both are and how you both are
Speaker 2: a great team together.
Speaker 1: Kind of coming back to where we start asked about
Speaker 1: why we hide our money mistakes, And I know I
Speaker 1: have a tendency to blame social media for everything, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it again right now. Do you
Speaker 1: think kind of social media with everybody showing their perfect
Speaker 1: kind of lives or their perfect version of themselves, and
Speaker 1: that can often include finances, They're perfect financial life. Do
Speaker 1: you reckon it makes it worse? Do you reckon it
Speaker 1: makes it harder to be honest that we are not perfect,
Speaker 1: that we do make mistakes when all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're just seeing everybody just making good decisions.
Speaker 2: Apparently definitely, because obviously social media is you know, it's
Speaker 2: the curated highlights, you know, the milestones, the first home,
Speaker 2: the new car, the luxury holiday. You know, you don't
Speaker 2: see the struggle and the setbacks and all the failures
Speaker 2: that have happened, and they could have been. You might
Speaker 2: see with someone that sold their business for a great figure,
Speaker 2: but you may not know that they've actually had seven
Speaker 2: failed businesses before that, Yeah, you know, and they've lost
Speaker 2: millions of dollars on that before then. So you know,
Speaker 2: it's you've got to look at you know, eyes wide open.
Speaker 2: It's such so surface level. And obviously social media creates
Speaker 2: that comparison that can you know, turn healthy ambition into
Speaker 2: something quite toxic, and that self criticism. So yes, you've
Speaker 2: got to be careful of social media as well. But
Speaker 2: there also I think more and more people on social
Speaker 2: media becoming more authentic and open and transparent, sharing their
Speaker 2: setbacks and their failures and where they went wrong and
Speaker 2: where they had to kind of almost reinvent themselves.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's leave this on a very positive note. What
Speaker 1: is your message to someone, To anyone that is still
Speaker 1: carrying guilt over a financial mistake? They how do they
Speaker 1: let it go? Or not necessarily let it go, but
Speaker 1: how do they move forward with that?
Speaker 2: It is absolutely impossible to live a perfect life without
Speaker 2: any failures whatsoever. You've got to be kind and forgive yourselves.
Speaker 2: Mistakes are all part of learning, and the moment you
Speaker 2: can name it and understand it and then take even
Speaker 2: just one small action like calling a counselor or making
Speaker 2: an appointment to see a financial planner, or picking up
Speaker 2: a book or listening to another podcast, you'll start to
Speaker 2: move forward. So you don't have to fix absolutely everything immediately.
Speaker 2: You just need to get started on the journey of
Speaker 2: fixing it and most importantly, learning and educating yourself so
Speaker 2: that you never repeat history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great advice, all right. If anybody wants more information,
Speaker 1: they want to see more from you Instagram.
Speaker 2: Instagram, send me a message on Instagram, share with me
Speaker 2: your dirty financial laundry and we'll break it down together.
Speaker 1: That's it. Sugar Mama TV on Instagram, and you can
Speaker 1: hear me every day with Sean Aylmer on Fear and
Speaker 1: Greed business News. You can use Thank you for listening
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