1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: From the Australian. This is the weekend edition of The Front. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. There's a superstar of Aboriginal art. You 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: may not have heard of, Archie Moore. He's a bigombull 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: Camillroy man and last year he won the art world's 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: most prestigious award, the Golden Lion, at the Venice Bianali, 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: where he represented Australia. His work, he called it, Kith 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: and Kin, was an immersion in sixty five thousand years 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: of Moore's own family tree, and it was something much 9 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: bigger too, a glimpse at the immense power of love 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: and loss our own. Tim Douglas saw the work in Venice, 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: and now it's coming to Australia, opening this weekend at 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: the Queensland Art Gallery and Gallery of Modern Art or COGOMA. 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: Today Tim joins me to step inside Archie Moore's world. 14 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 2: Kith and Kin is a very kind of contemplative work. 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: I mean I was quite emotionally overwhelmed by the time 16 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: I left. It has a very sort of overpowering effect 17 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: on many people who view it. 18 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Kith and Kin is right at home in a contemporary 19 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: art museum. It's immersive, immense, thought provoking. 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 3: I think it's absolutely amazing and the sensitivity with which 21 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 3: it has been conceived is absolutely fantastic. 22 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: But unlike his peers drawing inspiration from contemporary ideas and styles, 23 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Archie Moore's work draws on deeply rooted indigenous art traditions, 24 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: mapping ancestral journeys, imparting knowledge, and exploring themes of country 25 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: connectedness and spirituality. 26 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: It's rooted in something. 27 00:01:59,080 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not. 28 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: So preachy as a lot of other pavilions are. The 29 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: work is divided into two parts. In the middle of 30 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: a dark room, there's a large table set in a 31 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: pool of water, and on the table are piles of 32 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: documents five hundred and fifty seven pieces of paper to 33 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: be specific, mostly coroner's reports with names redacted detailing Aboriginal 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: deaths in custody from nineteen ninety one to twenty twenty three, 35 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: plus blank reams of paper representing gaps in the record. 36 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: The other part of the work is Archie Moore's meticulously 37 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: researched family tree, going back sixty five thousand years. The 38 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: trees written in chalk over chalkboard paint, which covers the 39 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: walls and the entire ceiling. Here's Archiemore. 40 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 4: If we go back far enough, everyone on Earth has 41 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 4: a common ancestor, and this forms part of a larger 42 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 4: kinship system where every person and then indigenous sense animals 43 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 4: and every other living thing on the land. The land 44 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 4: itself's part of the kinship system. 45 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 2: When I was there, there was a line for one 46 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 2: pavilion and one pavilion only, and that was the austrated pavilion. 47 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: As we got closer to the front of the line, 48 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: people were coming out of that pavilion with tears streaming 49 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: down their faces. And so to give an experience of 50 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 2: what it's like, I mean, we come out from the 51 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: blazing blue sky and you walk into this darkened box. 52 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: It's incredibly dark, and your eyes eventually adjusted. These things 53 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: and these white outlines kind of appear like stars and 54 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: the night sky, these kind of shimmers, these ghosts, these 55 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: spirits that kind of appear before your eyes. And the 56 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: works themselves are done in these small boxes. And actually 57 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: more have spoken a little bit about how it's a 58 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: bit of a nod to some of his family traditions, 59 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: like small oyster leases or they look like roof tiles. 60 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: They're kind of created in this big, beautiful sort of pattern. 61 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 2: Once you realize what's going on, it can become quite overwhelming. 62 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: So you know, you walk over to one of the 63 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: names and you follow that name, and if you spend 64 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: long enough in there, you'll eventually come to the word me. 65 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: But another very important part of that work that speaks 66 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: also to that idea are these pages in the middle 67 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: of this reflective pool that represent the five hundred and 68 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: fifty seven Indigenous deaths in custody that have occurred since 69 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: the World Commission. 70 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: A table is, of course a western piece of furniture, 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: and it's plunked there right in the middle of this 72 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: sacred space, whether it's a desert sky or a cave 73 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And it's intriguing that you initially 74 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: walked right past it. 75 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, it's symbolic of that idea of colonization, 76 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,799 Speaker 2: but also of the judicial system that inadimate object upon 77 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: which you know, the directions of indigenous life. I decided 78 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 2: throughout history and I walked directly past it and contemplated 79 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: the huge cabinous space in which we found ourselves. But eventually, I, 80 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: like everybody else, kind of circle back to this table 81 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 2: and the true power of it lies in the reflective 82 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: pool around which the table with these documents representing Indigenous 83 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: deaths in custody. You have to reach across the table 84 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: to see what these documents actually mean, and in so 85 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: doing you catch your own reflection. For me, that was 86 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: probably the most powerful part of that entire work, because 87 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: it takes the artwork from being about someone else's life, 88 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: someone else's history, to a very real and visceral understanding 89 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: that you are inextricably part of this story too. 90 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: It's a very fragile work, isn't it, in the sense 91 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: that chalk on a blackboard can be rubbed out and 92 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: presumably has to be rubbed out when this work is dismantled. 93 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: What happened to the iteration of it at the bnally 94 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: and has he had to recreate it for Queensland. 95 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: He has recreated it that was dismantled at the end 96 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: of the b and LI last year and it will 97 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: be recreated for the first time since that period Inqua 98 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: Goma in Brisbane from this weekend now. The work was 99 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: acquired on behalf of the Australian Government and Creative Australia 100 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: and donated to Quagoma and Brisbane and also the tape 101 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: in London. Now Quagoma will have the first showing of it. 102 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: Archie Moore and his team have been in there for 103 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: the last month painstakingly recreating that work to the ends degree, 104 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: so it'll be able to be viewed from Saturday at 105 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: Quagoma on Level three from this weekend and they're expecting 106 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: lots of people to fall through. 107 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: It's an interesting choice for a working artist to make, 108 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: isn't it. You can't replicate that and sell it. You're 109 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: not painting portraits of someone or creating something that it's 110 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: easy to hang on your wall at home. He's creating 111 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: something that is huge, very hard work can only be 112 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: done once or twice in your lifetime. I would assume 113 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: that's a kind of interesting choice, isn't it for him? 114 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 115 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: And I think the word easy is the really important 116 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: one you picked up on there, because actually Moore's life 117 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: hasn't been easy. Life has an artist isn't easy, And 118 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: his point is that indigenous life in this country, especially 119 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: over the last couple of hundred years, has not been easy. 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: The real point of this work, of course, is that 121 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: it's about genealogy, it's about interrupted genealogy and the interruption 122 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: on a large scale is the colonial intervention in this 123 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: country and how the indigenous population has suffered at the 124 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: hands of that intervention. You know, we talk about the 125 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: deaths and custody as a primary marker of those disruptions 126 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: in his genealogy. I'm not sure actually more works in 127 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: a way that's easy. I think he needs things to 128 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: be difficult. He asked difficult questions and he's not afraid 129 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: clearly to get his hands dirty in the process. 130 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: He won the Golden Lion at Venice. How significant was 131 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: that as an achievement, so. 132 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: That Leone d'Oro, my year seven Italian teacher, Professor Essa 133 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: Cleary will be hopefully impressed by that. Pronunciation is kind 134 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: of the highest award in the cultural sector. It's awarded 135 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: every two years at the bn l A in a 136 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: range of disciplines. Now the participation in the Jardini is 137 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: the apotheosis of those awards, so it is a huge honor. Now, 138 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: Archie Moore was a bit of a bolto came out 139 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: of nowhere. He's only the second indigenous artist to have 140 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: ever represented Australia since the Australian participation began in nineteen 141 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: fifty four. In fifty four we had Sidney Nolan and 142 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: William Dobell representing Australia at this huge international jamboree. Twenty 143 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 2: seventeen was Tracy Moffatt. We had the first indigenous artist 144 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. Richard Bell staged this protest famously down 145 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: the Rio del Jardini on a barge with this huge 146 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 2: work that was protesting the fact that Australia had overlooked 147 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: indigenous artists for so long. Of course, only a couple 148 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 2: of years later Archie Moore comes along with this phenomenal 149 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: work and takes out the top prize. 150 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: There's been no shortage of controversy during the lead up 151 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: to next year is Venice BIONALI Tim and I get 152 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: into that after the break Australia's next outing at the 153 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: Venice b and Aali is next year twenty twenty six, 154 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: and our artist is going to be colored subsabi. 155 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: I'm an artist, I'm an art maker, I'm a storyteller. 156 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: A Sydney Man who has been subject to a big controversy. 157 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,599 Speaker 1: He was commissioned for the b and Ali, then the 158 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: commission was withdrawn by Creative Australia in a bit of 159 00:09:58,920 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: a panic. 160 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: Sure. 161 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: It was revealed by The Australian that some of his 162 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: previous artworks were apparently unknown to Creative Australia. They hadn't 163 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: actually gone and checked them out before they gave him 164 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: the gig. After he was announced as a finalist, two 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: of Subsabi's earlier works got a lot of attention, one 166 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: in which planes fly into the Twin Towers on September eleventh, 167 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, and another in which the late 168 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: Hesbala leader her Son Mazrala speaks to an adoring crowd 169 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: with beams of light emanating from his face. Subsabi subsequently 170 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: told Al Jazeera his intention was not to celebrate terrorism. 171 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: O work takes an anti war stance. It speaks about 172 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 3: how propaganda is seated and how propaganda grows and distorts. 173 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: He speaks about the brutality of war and the violence, 174 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: and as an artist, this is my language. 175 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: Creative Australia later handed Subsabi's commission back Tim what are 176 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: you expecting from Colored Subsabin twenty twenty six. 177 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: It's going to be a really interesting time for Australia. 178 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: I mean, clearly it's going to be a controversial moment 179 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: when that pavilion is open and we and you know, 180 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: this artwork is revealed to us. If there's any stage 181 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 2: on which controversy or otherwise might be best played out, 182 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 2: it's a Venice. It is a great history of controversy, 183 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: of launching amazing artists, of having sometimes difficult conversations. Maybe 184 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: that's exactly the right place to have a difficult conversation. 185 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: Who knows what will be happening in the Middle East 186 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: conflict by then, But it was with the backdrop of 187 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: Gaza and concern about Israel's actions in Gaza that colored Subsibin, 188 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: whose commission was initially withdrawn. He had participated in a 189 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: boycott of the Sydney Festival because of a small sponsorship 190 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: by the Israeli government of one of the works in 191 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: that festival. So he's made his concern about that conflict clear. 192 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: Is international conflict something that looms over Venice all the time. 193 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: I would say Venice gives artists an incredible platform to 194 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: either make a name for themselves or to make a controversy. 195 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: You know, I really hope that for the sake of 196 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: Australia's contribution there that what we see is something that 197 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: is representative of Australia and puts the great cultural output 198 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: that we foxter hear in this country on the international stage. 199 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the risk was I think at one point that 200 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: we wouldn't have had an exhibition at all at Venice. 201 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: What would that have meant for us if that had 202 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: been the case. I think that'd a bit disaster. 203 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: Claire. We've been continually edited at Venus since nineteen fifty four, 204 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: and I think to sacrifice that at the altar of 205 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: politics would be a disaster of the highest order. 206 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 4: You know. 207 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 2: I've got such a great creative vibe that runs through 208 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: this country and so many fantastic artists and curators especially 209 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: that put on these works. And look, Archie Moore is 210 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 2: a great example of someone that we might not have 211 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: paid a lot of heed to in this country until 212 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: he's on the international stage. You know, sometimes artists like 213 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: that get overlooked in the national conversation, and so I 214 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: really hope that what we see is big and bold 215 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: and interesting. 216 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,599 Speaker 1: Tim Douglas is editor of Review in the Weekend Australian. 217 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: You can check it out right now at the Australian 218 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: dot com dot au slash review. This episode of the 219 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: Front was hosted by me Claire Harvey and produced by 220 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: Jasper Leik, who edited the episode and also wrote our theme. 221 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the Front this week. Our 222 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: team also includes Kristen amyot Leat Sammerglue, Tiffany Dimack, Josh Burton, 223 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: and Stephanie Coons.