WEBVTT - Summer series: in conversation with Rosie Batty 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.560 Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella Podcast. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.960 I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.120 had the privilege of sitting down with some of the 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.720 biggest names in the country. Because when Estrala's celebrities are 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:21.400 ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.760 We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.880 be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.560 In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks, 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.320 we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.720 past year. And I'm happy to report that there have 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.760 been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.920 fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.800 down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break. Today, 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.239 we'll be hearing from former Australian of the Year and 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:54.080 domestic violence advocate Rosie Batty. Ten years after her son 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.040 Luke Batty was murdered by his father, Rosie has continued 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:02.160 her tireless campaign to raise awareness about domestic and family violence, 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.520 but perhaps even more remarkably, she's managed to find hope 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:12.640 in the aftermath of such an unimaginable tragedy. It's lovely 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.839 to speak to you, obviously talking to you today about 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.360 your new memoir, Hope, a beautiful title, and you and 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:27.320 I will discuss why that title. Before we get to that, Rosie, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:32.200 I wanted to ask you about, as you write in 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.160 the book, you describe it as it's been ten years 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.759 since you joined what you call the club no one 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.840 wants to join. Your son, Luke, was murdered by his 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.760 father on the twelfth of February twenty fourteen, and as 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.920 you and I are speaking today, it's not been long 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:54.920 since the ten year anniversary of that awful afternoon, Rosie. 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.200 Like I said, I'd like to ask you in a 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.960 moment about the passing of time and its impact, given 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:02.840 so much of that is at the heart of Hope. 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.960 But can I start by asking how you felt coming 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.120 up to the ten year anniversary. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:18.040 Look, it's always a time of year that I know 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:26.560 is coming, and I perhaps don't always fully recognize how 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:33.320 I feel and until I'm through to the other side 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:39.040 of it. And I guess you know you're very reflective, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:46.040 very attuned to your loss, and particularly poignant I think 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.680 at this point, being ten years where I you know 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.640 that decade. You know, on one level, you can't believe 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.400 ten years has passed, and on another level, you can't 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.160 believe it ever happened. And you actually were a mum 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.560 with a wonderful young boy that you adored, and there 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:10.200 was a center of your world. So you know that 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.639 this time of year is coming up again. You know 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:23.919 that you're going to sit heavily with feelings and yes, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.919 this ten years was very significant to me, and I 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.359 feel it will be next year as well, because to come, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.880 you know, to really think that Luke was only eleven 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.520 when he died, and next year I will have lost 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.160 him for as long as I ever had him. You know, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.840 those are the kind of thoughts I have, the feelings 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:50.560 I have, and you know, yeah, that's what I wrestle with, 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.520 not all of the time, but you know, on these 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.400 times of the year that are particularly relevant. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:05.000 To There's a part in the book where you write 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:10.680 about Georgie Gardner, the Channel nine presenter, and how she 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.360 visited you a couple of times. Rosian. You told her 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.400 about how you were spending Luke's birthday that year, and 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.640 how you light a candle and spend the day quietly 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.919 that you buy him a birthday card every year and 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.560 write a message for him. And of course Georgie, like 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:36.040 everyone reading hearing that anecdote, could not help but cry. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.440 Is there something that you do on an occasion, like 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:45.279 an anniversary or a Christmas Morning to yourself as a 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:52.000 way to observe that occasion and the massive void that 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:52.599 it leaves. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.080 I do do the same thing. I light a candle, 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.440 and I'm still lighting a candle each day. I do 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.840 like candles, but I have a particular nice one that's yellow, 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.800 and that flame makes me kind of think of his 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.719 energy and his presence. And he has a memorial garden 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.520 just at the type cricket over where he was killed, 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:21.640 and I do go there often with my dogs because 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:27.640 it's a nice dog walking area for me, and I 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.520 take yellow flowers, and so do quite a few people 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:36.480 from his friendship group and the community. And this year particularly, 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.640 there are a lot of yellow flowers. Sadly because of 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.080 the weather it's a very hot. We've had some very 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.800 hot weather. They don't last that long. But I was 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:51.400 there this morning topping up the plants I'd bought with 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:56.400 water to try and extend their lifespan. It is really 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:03.040 his birthday and and these anniversaries death that are most 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:08.960 significant to me. Now, you know, people have often thought 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.360 of me on Mother's Day and key times of the 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.440 year like that, and they have never been that special 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.960 to me, so you know, and then sometimes when you're 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.760 not expecting it, like you know, catching up with one 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.520 of his friends who are now you know, twenty one 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:34.679 and twenty two years old, and they're young men pushing 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.080 their limits like I did when I was that age. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.360 But also you know, one of them is now a father, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:47.520 some are you know, completing their university education and traveling 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:54.480 into Europe, and you're always holding those thoughts of wow, 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.600 look at you, But I should be looking at Luke 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:05.280 with you, and I should be experiencing the worry of 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.440 being a mom, because I'm sure you never stop worrying 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.120 about your children, and no matter how old they are, 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.080 you're always wanting to make sure I know that they're 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.480 safe and they're happy and that life is fulfilling for them. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.080 And so for me, you know, those are those quiet reflections, 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:27.160 the ones I don't share but sit with looking and 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.480 knowing that I will never get that type of satisfaction 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:36.000 or joy in my life. And you know, and will 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:40.080 never be a grandparent and things like that. It's you know, 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:47.640 it is. It's saddening and it hurts. But like all 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.360 of those ceilings, I also know that I will lift 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:59.160 and they will pass, and I will return to you know, 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.880 the elements of my life that give me purpose, meaning, 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:08.800 are fulfilling and bring me contentment and moments of joy. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:14.440 And that's certainly the core of hope that begins with 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.960 the beautiful dedication to your son. It reads, to Luke, 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:23.120 my quirky, fun loving and sensitive little boy, how I 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.400 still miss you every single day and I know that 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:27.520 I always will. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:28.720 Rosie. 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:33.080 I wanted to ask you about how it feels to 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.400 remember Luke, like you just were talking about there in 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.280 the book. You also write how when the year that 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.440 some of his friends started getting their driver's license and 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.360 you would see those l plates, and what a painful 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.720 reminder that was as to what Luke could and should 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:57.360 be doing. I would imagine it's been incredibly taxing on 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.720 you at different opportunities over the last ten years to 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:06.679 have to recount the horrendous trauma and the circumstances of 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:11.120 his death. That is not something that we're touching upon today. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:17.520 Is it painful to reflect on Luke who he was, 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.640 who he would be, or is that something that you 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.000 want to do Ten years on, do you still feel 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.520 that desire to keep his memory alive of what he 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:31.080 could have and should have been. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.960 Yeah, Look, I think that I'm not as driven as 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.320 I was in those early years of somehow in how 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:47.360 I plowed into my advocacy and campaigning and set up 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.840 a foundation in his name. You know, I was, you know, 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.720 compelled to do those things. That was absolutely the right 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.520 thing for me to do at that period of time. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.960 But at some point I realized I couldn't bring him back, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:07.439 that I couldn't change this outcome, no matter how hard 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.640 I tried or how I you know, there was no negotiation, 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:17.320 There was no although you know, I had to accept 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:24.839 in the end the finality of losing Luke. So I 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:31.640 feel that, you know, people don't always know what to say, 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:38.559 and I do enjoy people sharing a funny story about 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:43.520 Luke or a moment in time or some recollection of 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:49.960 who he was and people not feeling that they can't 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:54.320 do that. And just this morning, my brother from the 0:10:54.440 --> 0:11:00.240 UK has a twelve year old young lady, not a 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:05.800 little girl, anymore. And his daughter, my niece, Eleanor, and 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:13.079 when she met Luke she was just tiny. She was 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.760 eighteen months old, I think. And there's a picture of 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:21.840 her in the pushchair and Luke adored her, you know, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.760 like a lot of young children do love little kids. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.760 And there's a picture of her and she's got that 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.600 on her screen of her mobile phone, and you know 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:37.480 that that's really sweet. And some of those things that 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.760 Luke's friends have done in their own private way, in 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:50.120 their own safe places and private moments, how they have 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.440 something that they treasured that s Luke's and you know 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.240 those things as I You know, I don't all always 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.040 know that, but when parents or they share that with me, 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.000 it makes me feel so pleased that in their own way, 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.320 he will ever be forgotten. So I don't have to 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:16.000 publicly look for him to be remembered. I know he 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.280 is remembered. He absolutely is. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.560 And that, of course is credit to you and the 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.640 work that you've done over the last ten years. And Rosie, 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.920 that work started the morning after his death in a 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:35.079 moment that so many Australians will remember, where you ignited 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:40.360 a national conversation about domestic and family violence. When you 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:46.760 somehow found the strength to speak to the assembled media 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.800 that morning and speak very eloquently. I'm sure almost everyone 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.280 listening to this will remember those words. A few of 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.200 them were. If anything comes of this, I want it 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.240 to be a lesson to everybody. No matter how nice 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.920 your house is or how intelligent you are, family violence 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.680 can happen to anyone. Rosie. A decade on from that 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:15.120 conversation that you ignited, do you feel that that message 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.800 is now better understood in this country? 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.200 Yes, I do. I do. And if I had never 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:27.360 done anything other than speak that morning, perhaps you know 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:33.560 that's that moment in time that I did choose to 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.000 speak to the media. Is the lasting impression that so 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.360 many people have They're not And of course then I 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:45.360 became Australia of the Year, but they always, you know, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.040 wherever I go and somewhere. I was at a fund 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:55.800 raising event yesterday down here locally for a hospice, and 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.200 so many of those women stopped and said, I have 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.840 to tell you just how amazing we think I think 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.440 you are. And you know, they don't know all the 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.400 things I've done, they don't know the places I've been 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.200 and all of the details of so many of the 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:20.640 things I have tried to influence and perhaps made some change, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.080 but they just know from that moment I spoke out 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:33.960 and had impact in a very raw, authentic way that 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:41.760 people That took people by surprise, and by that surprise 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:48.240 it I think there were surprised I was standing up talking, 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.920 but they were also surprised I think that I wasn't 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:55.040 speaking with anger and bitterness and blame, and I think 0:14:55.280 --> 0:15:01.239 that allowed a space for those who needed to reflect 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.160 about perhaps what they needed to do or could have 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:11.840 done differently. And that's exactly what the police commissioner can 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.520 lay who came out to visit me within that first 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.360 few days, you know, that's how he reflected that he 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:24.360 needed to look at himself as the police commissioner and 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:33.000 look at what and where did they fail? Look. So, yes, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.600 I didn't I didn't have a script and I didn't 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.880 have an agenda. That is what came out of my mouth. 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:46.200 And I'm very pleased and relieved that what I did 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.720 choose to say seemingly has stayed in people's minds and 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.600 had the effect that I you know, I wouldn't have 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.360 did even imagine. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:03.080 It, absolutely did few oblique the impact clearly in the 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.920 hearts and minds of so many Australians that still approach you, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.120 but also to have had that profound systemic change from 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.000 some of the authorities. I, Rosie, have the privilege of 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:19.080 working with Women's Community Shelters, the Australian charity, and I 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.120 know that you have also supported their work in the 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.480 course of your campaigning over this past decade. And ahead 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.120 of speaking to you today, I asked Annabelle Daniel, the 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.480 CEO of Women's Community Shelters, if she had a question 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.720 that I could put to you, and she asked, what 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.440 do you see as being Australia's next frontier in ending 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.200 domestic and family violence? 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.920 That's a big question. You know, we all play a 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:55.400 part and stopping violence towards women and children, and we're 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:01.479 still struggling to comprehend the link between them and gender inequality. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:07.600 And I think we all look at that. You know, 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.480 other people behave in that way, and that's not somebody 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.159 that's not me, that doesn't happen to people like me, 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:25.440 And what I'm doing or what I'm experiencing isn't really violence, 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:32.119 and so I think, you know, we're I've concentrated a 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.960 lot over the last ten years trying to shift the 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:44.600 victim blaming narrative towards the account the more accountability on 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:49.360 the perpetrator that is choosing violence. And so I think 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:55.240 that there is still room there for result to become 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:02.919 more not just more informed, but certainly recognizing its prevalence. 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.720 And so when we look at how do we stop 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:14.080 violence before it starts? I think that that's the most 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:19.879 important recognition that this is generational change. We need to 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:25.640 invest in that generational change because if we're not looking 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.000 how do we prevent it, how do we stop it 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:33.639 before it starts? Result, you know, responding to people in 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:40.120 crisis who are already suffered, suffering in them in varying ways. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:46.040 So we still need to look at our systemic responses. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:51.919 I feel that we've had amazing leadership here in Victoria. 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:53.680 I think we had a you know, we had a 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:59.480 Royal commission, and that has really shifted and changed a 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.640 lot of us systemic responses in an incredibly incredible way. 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.280 It doesn't mean it's perfect, but it does mean you 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:12.320 are more likely to have a better police response, you 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.840 are more likely to have a better outcome in court, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:21.360 and you are more likely to be able to receive 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.800 the support that you need. Is it enough? No, it's not. 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.320 But it's disappointing to me how very different it is 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.280 around the country as to the kind of response that 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:39.200 you're still likely to get. So I'm not sure that 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:44.280 that really answers and Abel's question, because I do feel, like, 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:51.720 you know, imprisoning somebody that's a perpetrated violence doesn't stop 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.560 the violence. The perpetrator of that violence will come out 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.960 of prison and choose to continue to be violent and abuse, 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.720 whether it's with you or a new victim that comes 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:11.600 into their lives. So this change is taking so much 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.520 longer than any of us ever wanted it to take. 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:20.440 And I've really learned and understood that this is a 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:26.879 very slow but inevitable path of societal change that we 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:28.720 all need to be part of. 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.280 When we talk about the pace of change, Rosie, when 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.440 you were talking about those, you know, what we now 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:43.120 call more insidious forms of family violence, such as financial abuse, 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:47.280 coercive control that you talked about there, these were things 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.440 even ten years ago that really were not in the vernacular, 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.400 were they Do you feel that the fact that they 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.679 are becoming issues that are now spoken about in the 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:04.200 mainstream by media, we see there, as you rightfully point out, 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.960 there's still inconsistencies at a national, at a federal level, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.440 but we're still seeing due to work of people such 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:16.800 as yourself, of course, Hannah Clark's family, I think, better 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:21.400 awareness of coercive control. As you say, it's a really 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:26.840 long process. And by the way, Annabel's question was a 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:30.439 massive one, and I'm sure neither she nor I expected you, 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.800 of course, but I think that you answered it beautifully. 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.800 To throw a little back to the theme of today, hope, 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.560 do you at least see some optimism, Rosie, in the progress, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:42.920 in the in the reporting. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.800 Yeah, I think that you've got I mean, this is 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.159 what I do a lot, because when I you know, 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.159 we still have alarming statistics where one woman a week 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:59.320 on ourverage is murdered, and you know, one in four 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:05.160 children is impacted by violence directly or indirectly, and their 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:10.560 lives altered and changed and compromised on many, many levels. 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:19.800 So when we understand the significant impact that violence women 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.879 predominantly experience, whether it's an aboriginal woman, whether it's a 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.560 woman with a disability, whether it's a woman from a 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:34.640 cultural and linguistically diverse background, you know, those people experiencing 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:42.280 that violence are experiencing it on levels of discrimination and 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.440 abuse that I, as a white privileged woman, will never know. 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:53.439 And so what I do when people feel this is 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.679 hopeless and you know, we never see any change. You 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.320 have to look at where we've come from to be 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:03.000 able to measure change at all. And that's exactly what 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:08.320 I do. I realized that ten years ago, people if 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:13.159 they weren't experiencing physical violence and bruises to kind of 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:17.760 demonstrate that they didn't necessarily recognize that either they were 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:24.800 experiencing violence, or that their family member or their colleague 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:31.480 or somebody they know in their network is actually perpetrating violence. 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:37.000 And people would say, I don't know anyone like that. 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:43.760 But very quickly a lot of us can recognize, potentially 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.480 people who have viewed child support as a mechanism as 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:51.919 financial abuse. And so we are starting to recognize the 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:57.440 different forms of violence, and we're recognizing and understanding more, 0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:58.879 even though we've got a bit of all hit to 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:04.280 go about. Courcive control, courisive control. When I lost Luke 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:08.680 was not recognized other than in the family violence specialized organizations. 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:12.840 That is exactly what I experienced, and the ultimate act 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.800 of power and control and revenge was to make me 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:20.960 suffer by the loss of my child. And so, as 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:27.919 you say, the Hannah Clark's family, that horrendous, horrendous act 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:34.280 from her husband where he set fire to her and 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:41.520 her three children, their three children. Again it's beyond our comprehension, 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:46.720 but we now see that courisive control is potentially the 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:52.439 most dangerous form of violence that people are using. So 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:54.520 I think, you know, when we look back at where 0:24:54.520 --> 0:25:00.640 we've come from, were more regularly accept that there is 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.240 this is a significant problem with our society and family 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:06.400 of vilence s exists. It used to be a dirty secret. 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:11.080 The shame was placed on the victim and basically the perpetrator, 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:19.040 who are mostly men, not always, but mostly it's able. 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:25.080 It is not made accountable by either the police or 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:30.480 family members and colleagues. And so you know, if they 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:38.400 breached intervention orders as an example, there were no ramifications 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:44.000 for that, there was no accountability. So we are recognizing 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:49.720 that the shame needs to be placed on the perpetrator 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:53.280 and the victim blaming dialogue that we used to all 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:56.719 subscribe to, and one of those victim blaming statements is, 0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.800 you know, typically is well, why doesn't she just leave, 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:05.280 as if she's that fault for staying, and so once 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.280 you kind of get somebody to see that, actually, what 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:11.760 are we doing here. We're putting all oners of responsibility 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:16.639 for the safety of safety onto the victim's shoulders, just 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:20.880 like we do in cases of rape on the street 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.919 and violence a woman may experience because she happened to 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:27.800 be out late at night, or she was wearing some 0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:31.439 kind of clothing that we deemed unappropriate, or that she 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:36.639 was under the influence of alcohol or medication or drugs. 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:41.840 Somehow she was to blame for a man choosing to 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:47.159 either rape and murder her. And I think we now 0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:53.600 see that it's the man's responsibility to not rape and murder, 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:58.600 not that we're at fault for wearing headphones or being 0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:02.040 out at the wrong place the wrong time. Those subtle 0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:07.680 changes in societal and community attitude are I think where 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:11.160 we are at now. And if I hear or we 0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:14.960 hear somebody in public prominence, whether it be a sports reader, 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:21.800 a journalist, a police commissioner, you know, we hear the 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:28.439 inappropriate reporting and we call it out and you know 0:27:29.680 --> 0:27:34.960 it's it's it's difficult for that person who may be 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:41.919 very caught in the headlights because they don't understand what 0:27:42.080 --> 0:27:47.320 they're saying and how inappropriate or biased or blatantly wrong 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:51.560 it is. But we're no longer letting that slip. We're 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:53.080 no longer letting that go by. 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:56.600 We'll be back in a moment to speak with Rosie 0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:59.679 about the complex nature of grief and the way in 0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:05.080 which resembles an onion in its multiple layers. Hope is 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:08.760 about what happened after the worst day of your life 0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:12.919 and how you managed to reclaim hope when it was 0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:14.199 seemingly or lost. 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:15.280 Rosie. 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:19.240 Even you being able to release a book called Hope 0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:22.600 ten years after losing Luke, I imagine would be very 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:28.280 encouraging and inspiring to other people who might currently be 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:32.800 in the depths of despair and for whatever reason, feeling 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:36.680 that they have no hope, no prospect of rebuilding their lives. 0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:41.400 At what point in your own experience this past decade 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:45.920 did you start to think that maybe you could and 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:47.520 would feel hope again. 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:53.440 Look, I think I had moments of that, you know, 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:59.280 quite early, when I could go out with friends and 0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:08.520 enjoy a nice dinner and laugh laugh at something, enjoy 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:12.440 a nice wine go to the movies and started to 0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:17.760 realize that actually there are moments I can enjoy and 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:22.960 there is laughter, and sometimes it's black humor, but there 0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:26.840 is still laughter. And so when I realized, I guess 0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:32.680 that I could have moments where I could laugh. Help 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:37.400 me realize that, you know, it was going to get 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:43.000 better at some stage. I think I lost my mum 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:45.880 when I was six, and there was parts of me 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:48.600 that I think somehow I've been It felt like I've 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:52.920 been here before. There have been moments in my life 0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:59.640 where I've been desperately unhappy, and you know, you know 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:04.640 that through you know, in the past I would read avidly, 0:30:05.520 --> 0:30:11.240 you know, whether it's spiritual journeys and books of inspiration 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:14.400 that were the right books at that time too, and 0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:19.640 I found books and reading and perhaps retreating into myself 0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.719 was what I needed to do, and I've always turned 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:27.880 to that in those very unhappy stages of where I'm at. 0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:39.880 But I think certainly when I agree. I knew some 0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:43.160 of my good friends were going on a track called 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.440 the Coast to Coast Trek in the UK, and this 0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:50.200 was almost around about almost three years I think, since 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:55.880