WEBVTT - #130 Stab Mag's Sam McIntosh: Riding the waves of change

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, my Boris, and this is straight Talk.

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<v Speaker 2>If we don't get a million views in the first

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<v Speaker 2>seven days, it'll be free. We dropped it and hit

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<v Speaker 2>a million views in six hours or something.

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<v Speaker 1>See macatosh Well into straight Talk, mate, Like they're actually

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<v Speaker 1>unreal ideas. How do you think of this shit?

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<v Speaker 2>Like all those things you don't think they're going to work,

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<v Speaker 2>You work through it, you work out how to do it,

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<v Speaker 2>and then when it comes together, the feeling's extraordinary. The

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<v Speaker 2>gold standard of storytelling is telling me something I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's sort of like show me something you haven't seen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what we're trying to do.

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<v Speaker 2>My dad didn't want me to work in magazines. He

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<v Speaker 2>knew what I was making. He's like, you got to

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<v Speaker 2>get out of this thing. But I just loved making

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<v Speaker 2>the magazines. I love putting together the stories.

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<v Speaker 1>Who's the craziest out of all of them?

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<v Speaker 2>Out of all the stuff I deal with? Oh my god, I've.

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<v Speaker 1>Seen macatosh Well into straight Talk mate. Morning, nice to

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<v Speaker 1>meet Thanks for coming down to Byron. Byron, you're living

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<v Speaker 1>in Barron.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, Yeah, I haven't been that long, but I was

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<v Speaker 2>in Sydney for a long time and then in l

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<v Speaker 2>A for a couple of years, and now that's we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to office in Byron and we're going to office

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<v Speaker 2>in California as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So you grew up though in uh and Gariel? Is

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<v Speaker 1>he Garry? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, your dad owns pub there? Yeah? Which which

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<v Speaker 1>one is it? Isn't he? Amber?

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<v Speaker 2>Pacific? Go tell the Hill?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? School one? Yeah, he still owns it. Yeah, okay, cool?

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Craig Robinson Yeah really well here good made? And

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<v Speaker 1>mine brother, well is he's still living? He's at Yamber,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't he? And Garry?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So he spends the weeks on the Gold Coast

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<v Speaker 2>because his kids go too, and then comes down on

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<v Speaker 2>the weekends.

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<v Speaker 1>His kids go tome to school again just what gin

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<v Speaker 1>send his boy dead there? He's close to Robert and

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<v Speaker 1>but Robot is one of the older boys, like killing

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<v Speaker 1>it at cool. He might be his last year or

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<v Speaker 1>something like he's really bright.

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<v Speaker 2>Super smart's yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Great, I haven't seen roll with Ages, Great Maid of

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<v Speaker 1>mon Salo if you see, right. So grew up obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>not I should say obviously, but I grew up as

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<v Speaker 1>a board writer. Yes, in the we're talking about now,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so grew up well, yeah, just before we get

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<v Speaker 2>into it, though, I went through your analytics to look

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<v Speaker 2>at what does well for you, and you've got these

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<v Speaker 2>colorful characters that connected really well, and then anything you

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<v Speaker 2>do on surfing tanks. So I'm like, I'm super interested

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<v Speaker 2>to see what have you seen that. I was talking

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<v Speaker 2>to the boys about it. I was like, really, you

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<v Speaker 2>guys want to do anything on surfing.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe our audience is not that interested. Yeah, but if

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<v Speaker 1>you're throw in a few names like Mick Fanning and

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<v Speaker 1>some of that, something might change.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, So I'm going to turn it around.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, You're going to turn this whole thing around. Said,

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<v Speaker 1>this dude is smart and by the way, I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>some of the stunts you've done. So I'm really relying

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<v Speaker 1>on you, okay to turn the stats around. Okay, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>at no pressure, but let's do it, okay, Okay, So hey,

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<v Speaker 1>just take me when you grow up. What period?

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<v Speaker 2>So I grew up in the nineties in Yambongari. So

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<v Speaker 2>we grew so we actually used to live inland. We

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<v Speaker 2>used to live sort of forty five minutes to an

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<v Speaker 2>hour from the beach and grew up in a town

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<v Speaker 2>called Casino. My dad was a shy clerk at the

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<v Speaker 2>council and he always wanted buy a pub and I

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<v Speaker 2>was so obsessed at that point, and he looked at

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of pubs. We went to northern Queensland, so

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<v Speaker 2>we nearly bought one in Air, which is I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>a day from the beach. If you're driving south down

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<v Speaker 2>to News.

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<v Speaker 1>It's no beach across across because Reece.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then we did a trip to Cape York

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<v Speaker 2>a couple years ago, my dad, my son and I

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<v Speaker 2>and we caught it to the pub and he's like,

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<v Speaker 2>your mother walked into this pub, she walked back out,

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<v Speaker 2>laid in the backseat with a migraine and she didn't

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<v Speaker 2>get out of the car. So thankfully we didn't buy

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<v Speaker 2>that one. And then all we wanted to do. His

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<v Speaker 2>dream pub was Pacific Hotel in Yamba, and then a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of guys from Byron they all got they all

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<v Speaker 2>went in together and they bought it. And so we

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<v Speaker 2>moved from Inland down to Yamba, which was just life changing.

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<v Speaker 1>A bit different than that is to what it is now.

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<v Speaker 1>It's still it's still a smallish town. But back then

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<v Speaker 1>it's quite remote relatively speaking. It was really a serving

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<v Speaker 1>town and.

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<v Speaker 2>Like a little resort town. So it's busy in the holidays.

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<v Speaker 2>Fish town yeah yeah, yeah, still very small. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And then what does that do for a kid growing

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<v Speaker 1>up in the environment? So how do you come out

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<v Speaker 1>of the place like that? Because nag Off was in

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<v Speaker 1>la So like, how does I mean, what's what did

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<v Speaker 1>it do in a formative sense for someone like you?

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<v Speaker 2>That's an interesting one. Well, for a formative sense. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a on the front of the public says pecific hotel

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<v Speaker 2>in big ladders on the front. And so I had

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<v Speaker 2>a bedroom above the.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah you lived in the hotel.

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<v Speaker 2>We lived in the park. Yeah, so we lived above

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<v Speaker 2>the We lived cool.

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<v Speaker 1>That's cool. I reckon that school.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was really fun growing up for the pub,

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<v Speaker 2>and then my dad had me go to work in

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<v Speaker 2>it pretty early, so I was balancing the tills and

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<v Speaker 2>learning about how to run the business. So that was

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<v Speaker 2>really helpful. And then he was just always pushing me

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<v Speaker 2>that we had to go to university, get out of

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<v Speaker 2>a small town. So the moment you turn eighteen, you

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<v Speaker 2>get out of there. So did that move to Sydney

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<v Speaker 2>moved under Jeff and Penny Carr's house at Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool, but how's how's Jeff? How's Curry related? What's his

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<v Speaker 1>friendship with it? Had they come about?

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<v Speaker 2>They went to school together in Grafton.

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<v Speaker 1>I really I didn't know Jeff is from Grafton. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a country boy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. By the way, those who don't know, Geff Card

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<v Speaker 1>played for George and a longtime administrator in the New

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<v Speaker 1>South Wales Rugby League. And I know Jeff through the

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<v Speaker 1>state of origin where I sponsored for one though ten

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<v Speaker 1>years or something. And of course I knew Penny, his

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<v Speaker 1>late wife Penny quite well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, lots of people.

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<v Speaker 1>So your dad sent you down to deliver the Jeff

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<v Speaker 1>at Tama.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Jeff offered, and then they had this little this

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<v Speaker 2>sort of like little granny flat under the house in

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<v Speaker 2>twn Royment. So I got to move to here.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that that's late must be late late nineties. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>well that's when I was sponsoring New South Wales. Jeff

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<v Speaker 1>used to walk all the time from I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if he still does. He was always every time I

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<v Speaker 1>ever seen he's walking from along the coast there along

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<v Speaker 1>to Bondai.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and back. Yeah, and he's when I was living there.

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<v Speaker 2>Scott's big birthday present for him because he played football

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<v Speaker 2>big legs. Yeah, his son bought him basoline so he

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't get a rash between his side. Yeah, it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was such a good Yeah, it was the perfect

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<v Speaker 2>way to come to Sydney. It was like a wonderland

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<v Speaker 2>for me. I was like, wow, I look at his place.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you do at Uni?

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<v Speaker 2>I studied a few different things, and I studied business

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<v Speaker 2>and then I didn't get through that degree and got

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<v Speaker 2>a job at the surf magazine called Waves. So that

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<v Speaker 2>was out of Chinatown. In Chinatown, yeah, that's where the

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<v Speaker 2>office world. So it was the big British publisher called

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<v Speaker 2>EMAP and they had Fahm and Smash Hits and Tracks,

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<v Speaker 2>Waves and a whole bunch of magazines and a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of sort of teenagers and twenty year olds running them.

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<v Speaker 2>Was it was really really fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you gather as a journalist or admin or what

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<v Speaker 1>we're doing?

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<v Speaker 2>I just went in as a deputy editor. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>study writing or anything. I'm not a great writer, but

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<v Speaker 2>from there I kind of learned. I learned what I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to do in life, and I loved it. I

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<v Speaker 2>just loved making the magazines. I love putting together stories,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was Waves was always the little brother to Tracks.

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<v Speaker 2>Tracks was the sort of the cash cow, and Waves like,

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<v Speaker 2>you stay in the corner, you get anyone trying to

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<v Speaker 2>get in the youth market. And so I worked with

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<v Speaker 2>the guy called Vaughan Blakey, and we had a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of success with the magazine. Brought a lot, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>when I realized that I was sort of not that

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<v Speaker 2>great of an employee, and I had to go out

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<v Speaker 2>of my own.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not great at being an employee.

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<v Speaker 2>And not great at being employee?

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<v Speaker 1>What would it where? And how do you mean? Like

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<v Speaker 1>do you don't like taking orders?

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<v Speaker 2>Or I was like soot. So I grew up learning

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<v Speaker 2>how to read a balance sheet and a pno because

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<v Speaker 2>my dad taught me at the pub. And so when

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<v Speaker 2>these young guys, and to their credit, they're really transparent

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<v Speaker 2>with the numbers, and I could see tracks of make

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<v Speaker 2>movie Box a year and then our magazine Ways would

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<v Speaker 2>make between two and four hundred, and we're having all

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<v Speaker 2>the success. So we'd go, oh, because I was on

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five grand a year or something, and I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to get a raise the magazine through really well,

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<v Speaker 2>they said, the sales team's amazing at the moment, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're getting amazing advertising, and then newsstand sales are really good,

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<v Speaker 2>and like, oh the marketing they're doing an incredible job.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, Okay, this is how this is

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<v Speaker 2>going to work. So I kind of realized I needed

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<v Speaker 2>to get out because I just I wanted My dad

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want me to work in magazines. He knew what

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<v Speaker 2>I was making, just like, you got to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of this thing, like this is this is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like a really fun, kind of dead end job for you.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what we thought. And so I was really good

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<v Speaker 2>friends with a surfer named Tajborrow yep, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>sort of the best surfer in the world at that point.

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<v Speaker 2>And growing up there was no really good instructional how

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<v Speaker 2>to surf books and so true yeah, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, we're going to make a really good

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<v Speaker 2>contemporary how to surf book. So I pitched him the

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<v Speaker 2>idea and he said, okay, I'm in. We went, let's

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<v Speaker 2>do fifty to fifty on it. And so I started

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<v Speaker 2>writing in nights and at nights and on the weekends

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<v Speaker 2>and working away and working away on it, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was getting close to the end, and then the publishers

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<v Speaker 2>found out that I had this book, and like they

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<v Speaker 2>pulled me aside and said, hey, everything you do we

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<v Speaker 2>own and I was like, well, no, I'm doing the weekends.

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<v Speaker 2>He goes, no, if you're doing your surfbook, we own that.

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<v Speaker 1>How does the people you're working for?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I was like, well you don't and a

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<v Speaker 2>you don't be You're not having it, and so we

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<v Speaker 2>both sort of saved face. I got the sack, but

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<v Speaker 2>I got a job in marketing. So I got a

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<v Speaker 2>job in marketing and I went from the editorial floor

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<v Speaker 2>that was really fun to the corporate floor and I

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<v Speaker 2>spent the next six months in there learning everything I

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<v Speaker 2>could about publishing. So distributors printers made all of those

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<v Speaker 2>contacts and finished this book, and I got really lucky.

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<v Speaker 2>I went to I found a really good printer in Singapore.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have any money at the time, and my

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<v Speaker 2>email came through from me the EMAP email, and so

0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:28.480
<v Speaker 2>I got ninety dight terms.

0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Wow, because they thought they thought EMAP was the one

0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:31.760
<v Speaker 1>asking for it.

0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I use this printers for fifteen years after

0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I'd started STAB, and every bill I'd get it would

0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.079
<v Speaker 2>be like Sam Macintosh's Care of EMAP STAB. But yeah,

0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.800
<v Speaker 2>we always paid our bills. And so I made this book.

0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.040
<v Speaker 2>I was like, how am I going to pay for it?

0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.360
<v Speaker 2>And so I rode for the Sunglass Company. I sort

0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.920
<v Speaker 2>of surfed, okay, and you wrote for the Sunglass Company

0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Onnett remember those?

0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:58.439
<v Speaker 2>And so I used to get fifteen hundred dollars a

0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:04.679
<v Speaker 2>year a spoonship, yeah, a sponsorship and personally personally yeah.

0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.559
<v Speaker 2>And then this one day they accidentally put extra zero.

0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.880
<v Speaker 2>They pay him fifteen thousand. So I had to pay

0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.240
<v Speaker 2>for these eight thousand books two dollars eighty seven apiece.

0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:15.920
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, okay, I'm going to dump this

0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.400
<v Speaker 2>on the print run. And I got ninety days to

0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.080
<v Speaker 2>pay down the other stuff, and then I had to

0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:22.760
<v Speaker 2>pay back to it. And so I got this book

0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.240
<v Speaker 2>out and I self publish it because I couldn't get

0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.520
<v Speaker 2>a publisher because I didn't have any runs on the board.

0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.280
<v Speaker 2>And one day my dad calls me, reads the Son

0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Herald and goes, you're in the best sellers list. Oh wow, Yeah,

0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.520
<v Speaker 2>And so he's in the Sporting section, the best sellers list,

0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.880
<v Speaker 2>and the book just flew flew in the US, flew

0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 2>in Australia, and it was life changing. And then from there,

0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.960
<v Speaker 2>what was a book called. It was called Taj Borrow's

0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Book of Hot Surfing.

0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.520
<v Speaker 1>They put Tar Borrows then on the top. Yeah, and

0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.680
<v Speaker 1>he was a co author that. Yeah.

0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:56.760
<v Speaker 2>So I was just a bunch of interviews and then

0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 2>all the basic stuff. I'm not you interviewing him, yeah, yep, right,

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.240
<v Speaker 2>and just anecdotal stuff. And then all I served, Okay,

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.720
<v Speaker 2>so I could write most of it. And then I'd

0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.679
<v Speaker 2>done so much so many interviews with him. I kind

0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:08.040
<v Speaker 2>of got his.

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.319
<v Speaker 1>Tone right, and so I nearly write his answers pretty.

0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Much, and then I just kind of go the technique

0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.439
<v Speaker 2>stuff I'd write, and then I just get anecdotes from

0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.440
<v Speaker 2>him about certain examples of where things took place and yeah,

0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:21.000
<v Speaker 2>and so.

0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.080
<v Speaker 1>But that was quite clever. Quite a clever technique is

0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.320
<v Speaker 1>to use the Taj Borrows in the in the title.

0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.199
<v Speaker 1>And given his status at the time, even today he's

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 1>still got status. But like his status at the time,

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and as you say, would have been one of the

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.959
<v Speaker 1>first books ever. There's books on everything in those season,

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.240
<v Speaker 1>but I don't remember seeing anything else surfing.

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Just the one in a really contemporary way. And at

0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 2>the start he was like, I don't want to go

0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.760
<v Speaker 2>out and stand up in the white water on a

0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.200
<v Speaker 2>soft top. I'm just just trust me. And so it

0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.640
<v Speaker 2>was really broad, but then went really really pointed at

0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the end, and so it was like you kind of

0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.559
<v Speaker 2>had to had to go through the sections and see

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 2>unless you kind of got through in this section, you

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.640
<v Speaker 2>couldn't go to the next color. And then a whole

0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.960
<v Speaker 2>generation of pro surfers, we later learned, wouldn't go to

0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.679
<v Speaker 2>the next page until they made each trick as they

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.320
<v Speaker 2>went just pretty cool, a younger pro surface younger, yeah, younger.

0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.080
<v Speaker 1>So you're really trying to appeal to as a good

0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Christmas present for parents to give you the kids too,

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 1>especially like you know, those little kids run a little

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.720
<v Speaker 1>soft boards, like I'll get to the board, I'll get

0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 1>to the book, especially up in coastal towns or even

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.920
<v Speaker 1>in Bondai in places like because the kids, I don't

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.080
<v Speaker 1>know if they still do it, but they're all writing

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 1>those you know, a little six foot soft boards, you know,

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 1>because you get sort of right on the edge of

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.319
<v Speaker 1>the flags. Yeah, like it was more access and sort

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 1>of like appeared much more safe.

0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.319
<v Speaker 2>It's so much safer that just like the softer rails. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 2>when a hard rail hits you, you can knock your own.

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and parents like because I got I remember I

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.319
<v Speaker 1>brought up with my kids. I was way too clumsy

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 1>and did rother But like, but you know, they're fun,

0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.559
<v Speaker 1>but so so what you're appealing to. I might ask

0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 1>you what what did did you actually sit there and say, Okay,

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 1>who am I baling to? Who am I buyers of

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:03.000
<v Speaker 1>the book?

0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 2>I did? I just I didn't want to leave out

0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 2>any cohort, And I thought, if you have all the

0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 2>advanced stuff, but then you have Tarj Borrow teaching you

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 2>how to paddle on the front end. If it's Tarsborrow,

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 2>you get what you kind of got cloud cover to

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 2>pull anything off. So we dumbed it right down in

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.440
<v Speaker 2>the basic end, and then at the other end it

0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 2>was the most technical surfing you could possibly do.

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so were you but you actually sort of telling

0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 1>the kids how to paddle.

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Out, how to paddle out, how to duck dive.

0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all that sort of stuff.

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 2>How to be a good house guest just like it was.

0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 2>There were a few there's a bunch of other things

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 2>that weren't just surfing. They were sort of surfing related,

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of surfing adjacent and yeah, the interestingly, so Tarj

0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 2>had just signed a huge contract with Billibong and so

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 2>we hit them up to sponsor and they said no, no,

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>we don't want to be part of it. So he

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 2>had to shoe sponsor Globe. So Globe got behind the book,

0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and then the book came out and it was a

0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>runaway success.

0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>How do you even? Globe got behind the books?

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 2>So they sponsored the book.

0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 1>And how do you I've never seen that before. How

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 1>do you sponsor a book? How does that work?

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:07.840
<v Speaker 2>We just put a logo on the front and then

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 2>the inside front cover was a big glow about optage, right,

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>and then the whole bottom of the book was like

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 2>a little flick book of like one perfect way of

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Taj had written. I just had this like spinning glow

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>blogo in there and it's cool. Yeah, it was really cool.

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.680
<v Speaker 2>And then bill a Bong were bumed they weren't a

0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>part of it, and they said, we want to be

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>part of the next print run. I said, we can't

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 2>it's you turned the deal down and then they said, well,

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.320
<v Speaker 2>we want to do a book as well, and so

0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.320
<v Speaker 2>they did a thirty anniversary book for Billabong, which we

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 2>made for those guys, and then we.

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>You got that they commissioned you to do it.

0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we made that book for No, not Tage.

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.680
<v Speaker 2>I had a partner on it. We made it together,

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 2>and then we use the money from that to start STAB.

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so can you see, sayly, how old were you

0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 1>when you did.

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 2>This book twenty four And the biggest gift was I

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 2>couldn't get a publisher because I learned how to do it.

0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 1>And then because you've had a publisher that would have

0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.000
<v Speaker 1>owned you and you had just got like a bit

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 1>of a royalty yea.

0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 2>And books are entoriously shitty business.

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.840
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I've done for them. There's no money in them.

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 1>That's why I always, I mean generally speaking, I always

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>hapy to give the money to charity because like it's

0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>it's modest, but like at the same time, I feel

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>as though, like, yeah, there's no reason to do it,

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 1>and I think if I can at least give some

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 1>money to charity, there's a reason to do it. Otherwise

0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 1>there's no money. There's no reason to do it money wise, Yeah,

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 1>there's no don't it what's the royalty look like? Well,

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.040
<v Speaker 1>you know it might be fifty grand or right, it

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.040
<v Speaker 1>might be a hundred. You know, if you get a

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.160
<v Speaker 1>couple of reprints, might be a hundred.

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 1>So like generally speaking, you can't. I can't. I the

0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 1>last book I did, I only did it during cover

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 1>because I was bored. But but I think like a

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 1>fifty five grand all of them to charity, because like

0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't have done it otherwise I was bored. So

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 1>I did it. But I had to find a reason

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 1>to do it. On Bord would do it. That's my reason.

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>And there's no money in it, so I'll give it

0:16:59.920 --> 0:17:01.600
<v Speaker 1>a bit if charity make some money out of it them,

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm happy Otherwise using publisher them talking about and no

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:06.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm not having a great the publisher. They're great people

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:07.480
<v Speaker 1>and that sort of stuff.

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.840
<v Speaker 2>It's just it's a low margin game. Yeah, yeah, and

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.320
<v Speaker 2>especially today, do you get do you get a psychic

0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:12.919
<v Speaker 2>reward from it?

0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.879
<v Speaker 1>Though for that particular book I did Rise, I enjoyed

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>that one, and I think the one I did before that,

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.040
<v Speaker 1>straight talk a straight talk What It Takes. It was cool.

0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Sorry that the book was called What It Takes. I

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.360
<v Speaker 1>did an audiobook too, so I was happy. I got

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.679
<v Speaker 1>a bit of a bit of a buzz out of

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.800
<v Speaker 1>doing an audio book myself. I'll never do it again

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.800
<v Speaker 1>because I had to own studios for like thirty six hours,

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.920
<v Speaker 1>not not once. Like the best I could talk for

0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 1>was three hours at a time, so I had to

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:46.400
<v Speaker 1>do twelve sessions.

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.160
<v Speaker 2>But you still have to do work of writing it first.

0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:49.480
<v Speaker 1>You had to write first. Then I had to do

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.359
<v Speaker 1>the audio. I had to read and I had to

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.920
<v Speaker 1>read it out aloud what I'd written literally eighty months before,

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 1>and I started finding things and that I didn't agree

0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.679
<v Speaker 1>with it, like we're no longer elevant. But I had

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 1>to read it as it was written because it was

0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>an audiobook, so I had to read it, like, you know, oh,

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:08.919
<v Speaker 1>so your thoughts have evolved? Did I say that? The

0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.439
<v Speaker 1>guy say, now you have to read it. You have

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 1>to read it as you wrote it. And it's fine.

0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:13.959
<v Speaker 2>SI.

0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 1>I needed that because that was good what I go

0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.879
<v Speaker 1>out That was like the experience of doing it reading

0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 1>an audiobook myself in my own voice. But when you

0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 1>read what you wrote what you write, which is what

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.119
<v Speaker 1>you see, compared to what you say and what someone hears.

0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:32.680
<v Speaker 1>It's they're completely different.

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Because you almost have to use the storytelling about two

0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.280
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent totally.

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not the same. It's not the same experience,

0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.239
<v Speaker 1>and so it was good for the experience the rest

0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:41.959
<v Speaker 1>of it. I didn't make any money out of it, though, well,

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.439
<v Speaker 1>the money I made went to track. But so, what

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.639
<v Speaker 1>did you learn from writing? What did you learn not

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 1>before the book? What did you learn from the whole

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.240
<v Speaker 1>book exercise like that maybe equipped you to go then

0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.159
<v Speaker 1>and do stab. So what did you get out of it?

0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.800
<v Speaker 1>What are the things that you got out of it?

0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I just love putting altogether. That's the thing. I was like, okay,

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.000
<v Speaker 2>putting together the whole deal, selling the sponsorship, getting Tarj

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.760
<v Speaker 2>on board, writing it, bringing all together. We'd walk into

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 2>bookstores and these huge cutouts of Taj on the front

0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.960
<v Speaker 2>holding your surfboard, and just all those little things. I

0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:19.080
<v Speaker 2>just love the because anything you do right, you go

0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.080
<v Speaker 2>and do something with the major talent, you think that's

0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>easy to get those people, every single person has to

0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.320
<v Speaker 2>be onboarded one by one, and so I just realized

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.439
<v Speaker 2>that I liked pulling things together and making sure that

0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.879
<v Speaker 2>the economics work, making sure you've got some of the

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 2>audience likes something the talent likes. I just love that

0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:36.120
<v Speaker 2>part of it.

0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.120
<v Speaker 1>So and I guess for the posts of this show,

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:43.359
<v Speaker 1>like economics is probably not where I want to go

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:49.000
<v Speaker 1>because Okay, but I personally love the economics. I love

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:50.679
<v Speaker 1>the fact that you make money out of it. But

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.479
<v Speaker 1>for the purpose of this show, I think was really

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.840
<v Speaker 1>like what I'm getting from you, because I've done a

0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 1>little bit of looking at some of the stuff you've

0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.640
<v Speaker 1>done on YouTube and Instagram various. I thinks I think

0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>it might be being slightly modest when you say, like,

0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, I like putting it together, being able to

0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.359
<v Speaker 1>just in a position to identify day one some of

0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>like taj borrows and by the way, this just goes

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 1>through the future of what you've done, especially with a

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 1>stab and all some of the stunts you've done. My

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:23.040
<v Speaker 1>gut feeling is your real talent or the talent that

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.320
<v Speaker 1>you've used. It's really amazing you're successful in things that

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:31.080
<v Speaker 1>you're doing. Is your ability to market, your ability to

0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 1>come up with cool stuff that shit everybody wants to

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.920
<v Speaker 1>have to look at like the shaping competition stab in

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>the Dark. Yeah, and you know I nearly did today.

0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.560
<v Speaker 1>I fucking forgot. I got a T shirt at home

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 1>and it says Insula Marris. It's really really old T

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>shirt and it's actually this year fifty year anniversary of

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.879
<v Speaker 1>this T shirt made of mine who lives up in

0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Balana now. His name is Steve White White and who

0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 1>and I in fifteen we set up a shape board

0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 1>shaping business called Insula Marus Island of the Sea. And

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the reason I know we called an Instina marks because

0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.119
<v Speaker 1>I was doing Latin at school. Stupid is subject in

0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 1>the world. But I did it and HC and so

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I said, called instament. We shade boards, and we sued

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 1>to sell them ourselves and we sell them to blakes

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 1>we knew. And I actually had the two shirt on

0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.160
<v Speaker 1>this morning because I put on some because it's right

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 1>around now is the fiftiethh versa. I pulled out of

0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.040
<v Speaker 1>the drawer and so coincidentally, I'm going to meet you today,

0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.520
<v Speaker 1>So you know, it was just a coincidence. But and

0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>I was, and I was going to bring it in

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:35.480
<v Speaker 1>and show it to you, and I was going to

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>get your sign actually, but it was, and you know

0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 1>board shaping, especially when you know you ran the you

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 1>know the I call it a stunt, but very successful one,

0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.320
<v Speaker 1>very successful. And there the other stunt that that I

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:49.880
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about a minute, but the one where

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.679
<v Speaker 1>you get that floating mat and they jump off the

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:57.080
<v Speaker 1>mat and onto the board. That's so fucking cool visually, yes,

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 1>So where what where does where do those unreal ideas

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:08.199
<v Speaker 1>come from? Like like they're actually unreal ideas. It's how

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:09.080
<v Speaker 1>do you think of this ship?

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's like anything so some of the parts right,

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:17.919
<v Speaker 2>So it's not just me, but there's just well, so

0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 2>we've done a couple of these things. So we did

0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.040
<v Speaker 2>one with a guy. We put just a flare the

0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.320
<v Speaker 2>flea you have when you're in trouble at sea on

0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:27.080
<v Speaker 2>the on the back of the surfboard, just put it

0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.879
<v Speaker 2>through the leash plug and then surfed at night. I

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>don't know where you saw that one. So it's like

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.640
<v Speaker 2>surfing at night with his curfac called Bruce Irons. It's

0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 2>all lit up and red in the tube. And that

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 2>that was our sort of big, first, big viral shoot,

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 2>and we got into those viral shoots for a long time.

0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:44.840
<v Speaker 2>And then the one you're referencing the one the dock,

0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.840
<v Speaker 2>the big floating dock. Yes. So I was living in

0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.680
<v Speaker 2>la and one of my really good friends he lives

0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.399
<v Speaker 2>over there as well. He's from Newcastle and he's the

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:58.320
<v Speaker 2>skipper on James Packers boats. So is his name Chris

0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Chris Tom Tom Yeah, And I was say like, hey,

0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.439
<v Speaker 2>we've got this idea. Is they probably got a mat Yeah,

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 2>And they're just so forensic on detail, those guys, right,

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the boat guys, And I'm sloppy. He's super organized. And

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:16.919
<v Speaker 2>so he went to work on this thing for six months.

0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.440
<v Speaker 2>He found the company in Canada because it's just it's

0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.360
<v Speaker 2>just a floating pontoons. And he said, and because it's

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what they ever saw it's used for.

0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 2>The one use we saw was in a sort of

0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 2>It was when people come off boats and there's a

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:34.960
<v Speaker 2>tiny bit of swell. As people walking down, you see

0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:37.199
<v Speaker 2>a tiny little wave run under it, And well that

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.040
<v Speaker 2>could work in the ocean. And if we just anchor

0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:41.720
<v Speaker 2>that off a boat, we can have guys run along

0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:43.640
<v Speaker 2>and then jump under the wave and ride the wave.

0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 2>And so they.

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Run along with the board and under the under their arm.

0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and really difficult to do because you can't tell.

0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:53.720
<v Speaker 2>But it sits about a foot out of the water.

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.360
<v Speaker 2>So and it's as that thick as it. Yeah, it's

0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 2>really thick, and it's really hard. So it's unforgiving, especially

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.320
<v Speaker 2>when you kind of got the ocean and a significant

0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.280
<v Speaker 2>swell coming at you. But he did all the work

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:07.399
<v Speaker 2>on it, and so he's like, oh, can I have

0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:10.040
<v Speaker 2>two grand to buy this special rope? And then it

0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:13.720
<v Speaker 2>built the sort of the infrastructures required to attach it

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.880
<v Speaker 2>to a boat. And then because when a wave hits

0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 2>it, it has so much power and the things one hundred

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 2>feet long.

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:22.080
<v Speaker 1>That long is it? Yeah?

0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.679
<v Speaker 2>Wow, we probably didn't need to make that long, but

0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:26.720
<v Speaker 2>that's you know, it's like you get that many cubes

0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.040
<v Speaker 2>you put them together. Yeah. So we shot that in

0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Bali and we launched a Banoa harbor. It took us

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:35.399
<v Speaker 2>We got there at four in the morning. It took

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:37.199
<v Speaker 2>us four and a half hours to go down the

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:39.359
<v Speaker 2>coast to get to where we need to go. And

0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:41.520
<v Speaker 2>then we got there. The surfaces we went there with

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.159
<v Speaker 2>we just there were waves down the beach and we

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:44.119
<v Speaker 2>were just out of the back and they were just

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:49.120
<v Speaker 2>ignoring us. And it was really frustrating for a time,

0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 2>and then like all those things, you don't think they're

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.160
<v Speaker 2>going to work, and it's just the kind of trials

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 2>and tribulations you work through it, you work out how

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 2>to do it, and then when it comes together, the

0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 2>feeling is extraordinary.

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 1>But again you're being pretty modest, Like it's, as you said,

0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:10.520
<v Speaker 1>some of the parts, but the idea, like the very

0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:12.719
<v Speaker 1>very concept and the fact that you thought you might

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:14.960
<v Speaker 1>be able to put it together. I mean, do you

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 1>remember where you were sitting or what you were doing

0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:18.639
<v Speaker 1>when you come up with just let's talk about the

0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 1>floating mat or the mat that floats on top. Where

0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.840
<v Speaker 1>were you? It's just and why did you do it? Like?

0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:28.440
<v Speaker 1>What was the purpose?

0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:33.159
<v Speaker 2>We kind of went into this this stunt space because

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 2>it was it kind of became a part of our

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:37.879
<v Speaker 2>DNA and we really try to do these things that

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:38.880
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been done before.

0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:41.560
<v Speaker 1>But did someone Richard Brandson spy Like that's brand's a

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:46.399
<v Speaker 1>big thing, stunts Virgin Virgin. But he built Virgin's brand

0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:49.399
<v Speaker 1>by doing stunts, crazy shit like you know, driving a

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:52.200
<v Speaker 1>tank down the middle of forever, you know, like really

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:56.159
<v Speaker 1>crazy shit stuff that most of us wouldn't think I

0:25:56.200 --> 0:26:00.919
<v Speaker 1>just wouldn't think about like did you get inspired by

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>someone like him?

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:05.199
<v Speaker 2>We used there used to be this website called it

0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 2>was called jown. It was like all these it was

0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:11.239
<v Speaker 2>like four j's and O U N D jown And

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.719
<v Speaker 2>we used to scroll that thing and used to have

0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 2>just weird images and we try to get inspiration from

0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 2>this thing. So the the Flare shoot one was just

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 2>from McCarney west film clip a little kid runing along

0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 2>with a flare, so like we could put that on surfboard.

0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 1>But did you see that on jown?

0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>That one wasn't on jown.

0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 1>No, So you're seeing when you see the candy of

0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:40.760
<v Speaker 1>West video, what's how do you trains translate that from

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 1>looking at VID and go fuck, I could do that

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:43.880
<v Speaker 1>putting on a bank of surfboard.

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:46.640
<v Speaker 2>That's everything we do is sort of bringing it from

0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 2>outside surfing into surfing. So like the surfboard, when you

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:51.320
<v Speaker 2>talk about the Stab in the dark, it's kind of

0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.720
<v Speaker 2>the master chef of surfboards. Yeah, it's no difference. I

0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:56.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know, Australian idol of surfboards.

0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:58.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's sort of like there's always an appropriation of

0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:00.760
<v Speaker 2>bringing to surfing so that's how kind of tackled it.

0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:05.160
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, so the doc one, someone said we should

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.320
<v Speaker 2>do that and get stand up paddle boards and see

0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:09.200
<v Speaker 2>if you can run and jump, and like then we'd

0:27:09.200 --> 0:27:12.119
<v Speaker 2>seen that clip of that one floating with the tourist

0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.040
<v Speaker 2>running down up falling over, and we're like, okay, let's

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 2>join those two ideas together. And then a lot of

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.439
<v Speaker 2>ideas we do aren't that great. Like we went to

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:22.600
<v Speaker 2>what we thought would be really cool. We went to

0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Indonesia and we thought, what if we put a thousand

0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 2>ping pong balls and someone's standing at tube and it's

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:31.320
<v Speaker 2>ping pong balls all around around the tube. You're serving

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:33.720
<v Speaker 2>in the tube serving job, and there's just all ping

0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:36.960
<v Speaker 2>pong balls around it like an art installation that we tried.

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 2>It was a failure, and then we spent entire day

0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:42.720
<v Speaker 2>cleaning up the ping pong balls after it didn't work.

0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Because then, so the because the stuff I love of

0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 1>it is like the ones that work anyway is one

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:53.760
<v Speaker 1>coming up with the idea. And I guess what you're

0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:55.480
<v Speaker 1>saying is like you sort of sitting around and you

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:57.359
<v Speaker 1>sort of collab with your mates, like you you're all

0:27:57.400 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 1>smoking a bomb or what's going on? Like, I mean,

0:27:59.000 --> 0:27:59.800
<v Speaker 1>where this shit come from?

0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:00.080
<v Speaker 2>Here?

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 1>There is a nighttime or white.

0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 2>That friend doesn't drink anymore. Actually, yeah, we.

0:28:06.720 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Were just talking, just young blokes haveing it.

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I just talked to a friend. I said,

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 2>do you think this is possible? This floating doc one?

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 2>And everything we do we try to find a sponsor

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 2>to fund it. So the DOC one, I have a

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>bit another business parner also named Tom, and we really

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.520
<v Speaker 2>wanted to pitch it to a brand called Volcom. I

0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:29.960
<v Speaker 2>pitched it twice and they didn't get it. And I said, Tom,

0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:31.320
<v Speaker 2>we've got to do this idea. It's going to be

0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>really really big. And he's like, just read the room.

0:28:35.000 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 2>They're not interested. I said, give me one last shot

0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>at it. He's like, just dianet. And so we go

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 2>to this meeting and I said, I think the deal

0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.000
<v Speaker 2>was sixty or ninety year the US. I don't know

0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:49.920
<v Speaker 2>what the number was, but one of those numbers. And

0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I said to them, if you don't, if we don't

0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:55.240
<v Speaker 2>get a million views in the first seven days to Volcom,

0:28:55.320 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 2>to Volcom, it'll be free.

0:28:58.320 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>You're not going to charge them. In other words, they

0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 1>can be this wants for nothing.

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yeah, and you won't have to pay And they

0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 2>looked at me like, what do you mean. I was like,

0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm so confident about this idea. I think this is

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:08.800
<v Speaker 2>the best idea.

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Of ever, so there's no downside farm yeah, and.

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:12.360
<v Speaker 2>They were you serious? I said, yeah, I think this

0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:13.200
<v Speaker 2>is really big.

0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:14.640
<v Speaker 1>And they're like, okay, it's a no brainer.

0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then we dropped it and hit a million

0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 2>views in six hours or something and it just caught

0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:25.960
<v Speaker 2>on fire. And interestingly, did you ask him for a double?

0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 1>If you forget double, if you're too because you have

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 1>two million now I got two million in a day something?

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Did pay double or they still just gave you the sixty?

0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we just got whatever it was. We're just happy

0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:38.719
<v Speaker 2>that it did well and it connected and they backed us.

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 2>But interestingly, we got so much. The accolades we got

0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 2>from that were incredible. But you show up at Monday

0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Monday morning the next week, go to work and your

0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 2>business is still It doesn't help your business at all.

0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:54.520
<v Speaker 2>It's not like you have this cash just coming through

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.880
<v Speaker 2>the door. And that was the last one of like, hey,

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:00.360
<v Speaker 2>no more of these big viral shoots. It's because it's

0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:02.200
<v Speaker 2>not a business model. It's really nice to get a

0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:04.520
<v Speaker 2>spike like that, but then how long do you have

0:30:04.520 --> 0:30:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the next one? And it's you can't build a business

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:06.920
<v Speaker 2>from it.

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:10.120
<v Speaker 1>That's as interesting. So I'm glad you raise that because

0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 1>I was going to ask you, like I, what was

0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 1>the driver of let's call it the stunts. But the

0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:18.240
<v Speaker 1>driver of the stunts was that I will do this

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:21.680
<v Speaker 1>stunt because I reckon I can get welcome to a sponsorship.

0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Was in other words, I will design a stunt so

0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>that I can get some sponsorship from somebody, hopefully covers

0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:29.960
<v Speaker 1>my costs, and make some money out of it. Or

0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 1>was the driver of the idea I want to do

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 1>this no matter what, but I need I make in

0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 1>order to make work, I need to get a sponsor.

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.320
<v Speaker 1>Was it about getting sponsor first? It was about I

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 1>just need to get this thing done.

0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:44.680
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of yes to both. Yeah. Yeah, it's well,

0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:47.320
<v Speaker 2>we would like anything. We were. We're the last to

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:50.120
<v Speaker 2>market in terms of magazines, up up against all the

0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.920
<v Speaker 2>big players draw MESSTAB now, yeah, so we just wanted

0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:56.040
<v Speaker 2>to come in and have a point of difference, and

0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:57.520
<v Speaker 2>so we wanted out. We wanted to the look and

0:30:57.520 --> 0:30:58.640
<v Speaker 2>feel it to be completely different.

0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 1>So how did you elaborate they had to fit into

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:04.800
<v Speaker 1>these things like so like, for example, the let's talk

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:07.720
<v Speaker 1>of the mat, how do STAB fit into that relative

0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:11.800
<v Speaker 1>to say the sponsor so brought to you buyo.

0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's just the Volcan logo at the front.

0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>And then all the surfers who are running off the dock,

0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 2>they're all sponsored by Vulcan. They've got Volcan stickers on

0:31:19.120 --> 0:31:22.360
<v Speaker 2>their boards and volcum on their clothing. And then though

0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:24.720
<v Speaker 2>and Volcan can run all of those assets on in

0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:27.240
<v Speaker 2>perpetuity across all of their channels. So you run on

0:31:27.280 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 2>their website, posters, billboards, whatever turned outs how a deal works.

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>But how did how did STAB get a benefit of that?

0:31:33.440 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 1>How did the magazine get the benefit from that?

0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.480
<v Speaker 2>So the magazine would have the photos, we'd run that

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:40.959
<v Speaker 2>in print and then we'd put the film online and

0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:41.880
<v Speaker 2>then all of those.

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Assets would just content. Yeah, more content.

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So we just wanted to when you we just

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:48.720
<v Speaker 2>wanted to a point of difference. So everything we try to

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>do would be the gold standard of storytelling is tell

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:53.320
<v Speaker 2>me something I don't know and sort of like show

0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 2>me something you haven't seen. Yeah, So that's what we're

0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 2>trying to do.

0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it really does come into storytelling, yes, And

0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:02.600
<v Speaker 1>so when did you learn like you learned? I mean

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 1>you worked your dad's baab. You you learn how to

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.120
<v Speaker 1>look at the difference between money coming in and money going out.

0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Then you worked at the magazine. Then you went upstairs

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:14.040
<v Speaker 1>and you started looking learn about the corporate stoff. But

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 1>where did you get into your head it's about storytel

0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:21.080
<v Speaker 1>because you're in your twenties, how did you understand the

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:24.920
<v Speaker 1>storytelling is such an important part of running a business,

0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 1>especially a new business in a competitive environment.

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think I actually connected the dots back then.

0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I sort of knew what we wanted to do and

0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 2>how we're trying to do it, and we're trying to

0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:38.000
<v Speaker 2>be world class and try to create these big moments,

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:39.400
<v Speaker 2>and I knew that like a big name and a

0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:41.280
<v Speaker 2>big idea, that's what connects.

0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, two basic fundamentals. Yeah, but no more articulated, not sophisticated.

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:49.520
<v Speaker 2>Now I kind of truly know what connects in storytelling,

0:32:49.520 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>but it's takes me a long time.

0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:54.160
<v Speaker 1>So what would you say connects and storytelling from your successes,

0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:55.760
<v Speaker 1>what are the sort of main elements I.

0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Think just storytelling. What I want is tell me something

0:32:57.720 --> 0:33:01.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, really yeah, and me something yeah yeah

0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:04.920
<v Speaker 2>yeah uh. And I think if you if you can

0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of whatever lane, your whatever space you're in, if

0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:10.160
<v Speaker 2>you can be the expert sort of authoritating voice in

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.240
<v Speaker 2>that in that space, I think it gives you a

0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:13.120
<v Speaker 2>good chance of success.

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>How important is though, is the theater of it though

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:29.920
<v Speaker 1>at one the theater, but also prankishness, some amend it's like,

0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:31.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, having fun with it.

0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's you can call it a prank or a gimmick,

0:33:37.880 --> 0:33:42.000
<v Speaker 2>or you can call it art. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah,

0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:43.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that's important. I think you need to have

0:33:44.960 --> 0:33:47.880
<v Speaker 2>that high production value, Like I think that really connects

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>with an audience. If you put if you kind of

0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:50.640
<v Speaker 2>go and make.

0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:53.400
<v Speaker 1>The you mean your actual production that's well put together.

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well put together. And it's like that doc video

0:33:57.280 --> 0:33:59.320
<v Speaker 2>it was a complete shit show. But I think when

0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:00.560
<v Speaker 2>you watch it looks really slick.

0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah it does.

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it some but that's all is that in

0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the edit? Yeah, that's all in the edit. Yeah. But yeah,

0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I think when it comes out it needs to have

0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:08.280
<v Speaker 2>that level of quality.

0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:10.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a bit like this, this show I mean to

0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:12.600
<v Speaker 1>be honest, like you know, like I don't know what

0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:15.360
<v Speaker 1>sort of material I give our editors, but like they

0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:16.560
<v Speaker 1>always make it look fantastic.

0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:20.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, you had the show up mentality. Yeah, I've

0:34:20.200 --> 0:34:21.600
<v Speaker 2>been listening a lot, and you just show.

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Up totally and then they make it all look good.

0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:26.880
<v Speaker 1>And then what they'll do is say someone like this,

0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:29.239
<v Speaker 1>for example, they make it interesting because one of the

0:34:29.280 --> 0:34:31.640
<v Speaker 1>reason I'm talking about this stuff because they'll grab drag

0:34:31.719 --> 0:34:34.600
<v Speaker 1>that stuff and they'll put it in somehow, They'll they'll

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.120
<v Speaker 1>bring it into the primos, et cetera. Yes, so that

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 1>and it's a really good vision. So it's about the

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 1>production quality at the end of the day. But I've

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:44.800
<v Speaker 1>got to give them the production quality. I've got to

0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 1>give them an on trade of the production quality through you, right,

0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 1>so Pie, Yeah, so, and and I guess that's like

0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 1>all storytelling and all theater. A theater is always about

0:34:55.920 --> 0:35:00.160
<v Speaker 1>that stuff. It's about color, light, movement, you know, vibrancy.

0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Whether it's a prank or it doesn't really matter, but

0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:04.239
<v Speaker 1>it's it's got to have energy in it. It's got

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 1>to have energy, must have energy in it. And I

0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:08.480
<v Speaker 1>think your stuff's always got energy in it. And I

0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:10.080
<v Speaker 1>don't know whether you thought about that at the time.

0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:12.120
<v Speaker 1>It mind you, when young people do stuff a lot

0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:14.240
<v Speaker 1>of times it's got fucking energy in it, just naturally

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:15.480
<v Speaker 1>because they take risks.

0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:19.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, it's there is something about start getting into

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:21.919
<v Speaker 2>business early and taking risks and making ow mistakes early

0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 2>when you don't have mortgages of dogs lose. Yeah, it

0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 2>really doesn't matter.

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:30.399
<v Speaker 1>But because I think the audience, if you pull it off,

0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:31.920
<v Speaker 1>they like to see that. They like to see the

0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:36.320
<v Speaker 1>risk taking. Yes, you know, and they because it's generally speaking,

0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:39.520
<v Speaker 1>something that some wouldn't do themselves. And you know, you know,

0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:43.239
<v Speaker 1>like I know everyone in my in this mental mental

0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:44.920
<v Speaker 1>structural business, everyone's under thirty.

0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've seen and.

0:35:46.560 --> 0:35:48.400
<v Speaker 1>And I do it on purpose because they will take

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:50.359
<v Speaker 1>more risks than I would ordinarily even think about it.

0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:52.120
<v Speaker 1>I just have to come sort of be the so

0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.400
<v Speaker 1>called talent, with the other talent in this case being you.

0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>But the rest of us then young.

0:35:57.840 --> 0:35:59.640
<v Speaker 2>People, you don't have to worry about how it shows

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.400
<v Speaker 2>up on you, Sube, by how far shows up in TikTok,

0:36:01.480 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 2>that's all, yeah, I.

0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Mean, just as long as my old So now you're forty,

0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:10.239
<v Speaker 1>what forty forty six. Are you different today to what

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:12.160
<v Speaker 1>you were when you How different are you to when

0:36:12.200 --> 0:36:15.719
<v Speaker 1>you were in your twenties? You're more aligned to the

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:18.239
<v Speaker 1>economics of things than you were than you are than

0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:20.040
<v Speaker 1>you were to just getting the thing out and done

0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and produced.

0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:24.880
<v Speaker 2>No, I still love the economic site of it is whatever.

0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:28.080
<v Speaker 2>I love the just having really a really good product,

0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:31.200
<v Speaker 2>and no matter what, I'll just always try to go

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:31.960
<v Speaker 2>for the best product.

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 1>So what about risk?

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Then? I love risk. I love it. I love getting

0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:40.160
<v Speaker 2>I love being up against the wall. It's my favorite place.

0:36:41.280 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Is it because you're best then yeah? Yeah, you need so,

0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:46.360
<v Speaker 1>you need pressure to create something.

0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:49.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. We did a that's that's my favorite place. Actually,

0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:52.120
<v Speaker 2>we did a sort of a big air contest at

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:55.759
<v Speaker 2>a wavepool in Texas. We do one. We're actually the

0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:57.560
<v Speaker 2>guys are there right now. We're doing one in June

0:36:57.600 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>in Japan. But it goes around in a way pool

0:36:59.960 --> 0:37:02.720
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, but the first one we do was in Texas.

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Met this Texan rancher, amazing guy. Very Texans and Australians

0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:12.560
<v Speaker 2>are quite similar actually, and we went to this wavepool

0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:13.520
<v Speaker 2>had this amazing air so he.

0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:14.360
<v Speaker 1>Got his own waypool.

0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's cool. It was really cool. And the thing

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 2>about surf contest, the thing that makes them so difficult

0:37:20.360 --> 0:37:22.560
<v Speaker 2>is you can't They don't start four o'clock on a Saturday.

0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:25.879
<v Speaker 2>They start when mother Nature shows up. So I really

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.799
<v Speaker 2>liked the idea of having these events. But we did

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:30.399
<v Speaker 2>this one. It was like one hundred and twenty grand

0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:33.880
<v Speaker 2>for the pool us. We're talking one hundred grand for broadcast,

0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 2>and we just nickeled and died to try to have

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 2>this event. The guy let us pay the day after

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:42.839
<v Speaker 2>the event, so let us get ticket sales and pay

0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:46.239
<v Speaker 2>per view sales and max out our credit cards on

0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:49.840
<v Speaker 2>the seventy five grand off a friend, and just that.

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:52.359
<v Speaker 2>They're the sort of things that have made STAB what

0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 2>it is like. They're just these these moments where like, shit,

0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:57.560
<v Speaker 2>I hope this thing works, and then it turns out

0:37:57.560 --> 0:37:59.239
<v Speaker 2>to be one of the big pillars of what we

0:37:59.280 --> 0:37:59.760
<v Speaker 2>do now.

0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:03.600
<v Speaker 1>And if I could just go back to STAB now, yeah,

0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:06.440
<v Speaker 1>but I guess we're going back to a period when

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:12.440
<v Speaker 1>magazines were paper. Was it similar to Tracks, which Tracks

0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:14.319
<v Speaker 1>was like a dirty, old, get fucking printed on your

0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:16.520
<v Speaker 1>finger type magazine. The only two magazines that I remember

0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 1>during that period. I'm not stabished so much. I'm talking

0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 1>about the seventies when I was, when I was buying

0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Tracks magazine, there was there was a glossy surfing magazine

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 1>called Surfing Australia or Australia Surfing or something like that,

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Surfing Life something like that was a glossy but it

0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 1>was a bit too it fucking expensive for me. Tracks

0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:35.360
<v Speaker 1>was a bit more affordable. But the two magazines that

0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.360
<v Speaker 1>were affordable with were a magazine called Ryebald, which is

0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:42.680
<v Speaker 1>a dirty, filthy magazine, like for young teenagers and young guys,

0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:45.640
<v Speaker 1>you're just looking at chicks and naked and stuff. And

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 1>the other one was Tracks, but it was it was

0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:50.840
<v Speaker 1>sort of like gritty gritty paper, right. It was a

0:38:50.840 --> 0:38:55.719
<v Speaker 1>big It was a big format. The Tracks was both

0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:59.799
<v Speaker 1>originally big format, like did you what format did you

0:38:59.840 --> 0:39:01.000
<v Speaker 1>have when you could stab out?

0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:05.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh, we're just like glossy a yeah, perfect bound with

0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.520
<v Speaker 2>the spine, yeah yeah, player and yeah.

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:13.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah and so like and like proper photographs, proper

0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 1>photography involved.

0:39:14.360 --> 0:39:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Very expensive produced market and be very expensive to advertising.

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but it worked, Yeah, it worked, it was.

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:24.759
<v Speaker 2>But for us, success came once we went digital because

0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:27.920
<v Speaker 2>it opened up an international market as opposed to domestic market, right, So.

0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:31.719
<v Speaker 1>But in terms of selling your magazine, just through those days,

0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 1>we've been through news agencies, yes, not online, yes, all

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:37.560
<v Speaker 1>news agents BA. So you had to sort of hustle

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:40.760
<v Speaker 1>to get your magazine next door to whatever else tracks

0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:43.920
<v Speaker 1>and make sure the right spot and then and then

0:39:44.280 --> 0:39:46.279
<v Speaker 1>so the digital world then came about, and of course

0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:48.360
<v Speaker 1>you can then sort of basically exports your magazine and

0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:50.520
<v Speaker 1>other places. How did you do that? Did you go

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:54.040
<v Speaker 1>and get pro surfers to be part of the promotion,

0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 1>like you sponsor them?

0:39:57.320 --> 0:40:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Interestingly, So I had a guy start working with us,

0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:04.000
<v Speaker 2>a guy named Tom burd So he come from Fairfax.

0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:07.880
<v Speaker 2>He adspace for Fairfax and he came on in the

0:40:07.920 --> 0:40:11.319
<v Speaker 2>GFC here and I was all about print and he's like, hey,

0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:14.120
<v Speaker 2>we need to get on this digital thing. I started

0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:16.400
<v Speaker 2>a thing, so oh cool, that's good, but I'm going

0:40:16.440 --> 0:40:20.680
<v Speaker 2>to stick to print. And he said, you're out of

0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:23.520
<v Speaker 2>your mind. I said, well, I just think this is

0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:25.080
<v Speaker 2>going to be I think just winning to double down

0:40:25.080 --> 0:40:29.560
<v Speaker 2>on this. And he's and he's doing really well. He'd

0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 2>like he'd gone through the contacts form of saying for

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Nike on their website and then Nike wanted our really

0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:38.160
<v Speaker 2>big clients and just really good at what he does

0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:41.560
<v Speaker 2>advertising advertising, well, more like a master of the soft sciences,

0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:45.440
<v Speaker 2>like those guys who are brilliant reading people, real people,

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:51.439
<v Speaker 2>sort of those those people who just people warm too.

0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:54.919
<v Speaker 2>One of those kind of guys always on the client side,

0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:57.279
<v Speaker 2>not the stab side, which is really good to have.

0:40:57.320 --> 0:41:01.919
<v Speaker 2>Because he was yeah, and he said, well, I'm out,

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:04.760
<v Speaker 2>and I said, what do you mean. He goes, I'm leaving.

0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I said, I want one hundred grand for a website.

0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:08.799
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise I'm out. And I was like, it's just not

0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:11.120
<v Speaker 2>a good time, Tom. He goes, just trust me, I'll

0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:13.719
<v Speaker 2>get this thing paid for. And so he goes, I

0:41:13.719 --> 0:41:17.120
<v Speaker 2>want to gave him one hundred Grund had the website built.

0:41:17.440 --> 0:41:18.920
<v Speaker 2>We put a lot of time into the content and

0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:21.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of made it was sort of rather bean after thought.

0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:23.719
<v Speaker 2>It was a focus for us, put someone full time

0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:25.360
<v Speaker 2>on it, and then he paid for the site in

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:29.680
<v Speaker 2>six weeks and then all of a sudden advertising yeah wow,

0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 2>and then it just flew.

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.960
<v Speaker 1>But how did you promote that? Had someone in America?

0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:38.000
<v Speaker 1>How did someone in California find out about your magazine?

0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 2>We're never overtly Australian. So we just wanted to sort

0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:46.880
<v Speaker 2>of connect with whoever's world class, world class photographer, surfar cinematographer.

0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:49.120
<v Speaker 2>So it didn't you didn't really know where this thing

0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:53.000
<v Speaker 2>had come from. And so lots of Americans, lots of Brazilians,

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.640
<v Speaker 2>lots of Europeans, and so when we went digital, it

0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:57.839
<v Speaker 2>just opened up a whole new market.

0:41:57.920 --> 0:41:59.200
<v Speaker 1>But what are they going to talk about it? So

0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:01.359
<v Speaker 1>like if I'm if I'm sitting in Brazil or wherever,

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:05.120
<v Speaker 1>and there's got to be a name in there that

0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I recognize, or a board or a support shape, or

0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:12.719
<v Speaker 1>there's got to be a break or something that I

0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:18.319
<v Speaker 1>recognize as a Brazilian. Like that's a global thing. What

0:42:18.400 --> 0:42:22.160
<v Speaker 1>worked for your best well pretty much the talent. The talent, yeah, people, Yeah,

0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the people. So like for example, like a Philips Alito

0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 1>from Brazil, how do you preach approach him?

0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 2>It was.

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Do you have to pay him?

0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:40.440
<v Speaker 2>No, we don't. It's getting more and it's the sort

0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:42.400
<v Speaker 2>of with the demise of the surf industry, which we

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:45.520
<v Speaker 2>probably get to at a point the service aren't on

0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:47.320
<v Speaker 2>what they were on. So I don't know whether that

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 2>will last for ever for us where we don't pay talent.

0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Because we pay talent, we put and then we put

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:55.080
<v Speaker 2>them in films. We sell those films. So but for

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:59.080
<v Speaker 2>the meantime, it's more beneficial for their sponsors to be

0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:00.799
<v Speaker 2>in STAB and getting exposure, right.

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:04.480
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, So so the great talent will agree to

0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:07.360
<v Speaker 1>do it because somewhere in there he will sure is

0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:10.000
<v Speaker 1>going to have some of the sponsors stuff written on

0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:10.359
<v Speaker 1>their board.

0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they're incentivized to be to be in there.

0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and so because yeah, that makes sense because their

0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:19.920
<v Speaker 1>game is to appear in as many broadcasts as possible. Yes,

0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:22.920
<v Speaker 1>and in which case you're a broadcaster. Yes, three magazine,

0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:26.040
<v Speaker 1>online magazine, so it's broadcasting, so that makes sense.

0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So we do this Surf through the Year poll.

0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:30.000
<v Speaker 2>If you do well in that, you get you get

0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:31.719
<v Speaker 2>bonuses back in the day, if you get a cover,

0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:34.400
<v Speaker 2>you get a ten or twenty grand bonus on stabs.

0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 2>So those things, there's different incentives for these guys.

0:43:37.560 --> 0:43:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And do Australian surfers resonate around the world, Yes, as

0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:46.359
<v Speaker 1>well as other countries resonate here. Australian surfers, Yeah, are

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:51.040
<v Speaker 1>the best of the best. Are they examples at.

0:43:50.880 --> 0:43:53.960
<v Speaker 2>The moment ethan Ewing is extraordinary. Obviously have Steph Gilmore,

0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Mick founding John Parkinson, but ethan Ewing is our big

0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:59.120
<v Speaker 2>shot at the world title. He will likely win the

0:43:59.120 --> 0:43:59.919
<v Speaker 2>world title this year.

0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:05.280
<v Speaker 1>And who's the craziest out of all of them?

0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Crazy? Out of all the subjects?

0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Deal with?

0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I've I've hung out with the crazies.

0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I used to serve with the guys from a River

0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:18.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot. They were crazy. Mark Matthews is crazy. Kobe

0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Happenan's crazy, the next generation.

0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:22.920
<v Speaker 1>There's Kobe's living in Balle's where's he living now?

0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:23.560
<v Speaker 2>He's in Bali.

0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:23.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a guy from the south coast of New

0:44:26.280 --> 0:44:33.279
<v Speaker 2>South Wales, Russ Bierky. He's crazy, probably crazy. I keep

0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:34.760
<v Speaker 2>saying we're crazy, but yeah he's.

0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 1>What were you around Rodkers period from Bondo?

0:44:37.800 --> 0:44:43.200
<v Speaker 2>No, well I know, but yeah, yeah, yeah, he's he's crazy.

0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:43.919
<v Speaker 2>He's a wild one.

0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:48.040
<v Speaker 1>That was at his wedding on now Yeah. Yeah, Actually

0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:50.200
<v Speaker 1>he was going to get married many many many minutes ago.

0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:53.440
<v Speaker 1>No district of his current wife, but and he was

0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:55.040
<v Speaker 1>going to and he's going to get married with my

0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:58.040
<v Speaker 1>farm and Byron. The wedding's going to be there and

0:44:58.080 --> 0:45:01.359
<v Speaker 1>then I remember you me up and said, mate, wedding's off.

0:45:01.920 --> 0:45:03.560
<v Speaker 1>This is like he had he was engaged with God

0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:06.719
<v Speaker 1>on Perth. Yeah, do you remember that. It was a

0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 1>fucking disaster. Oh my god. He's a he's a like man,

0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 1>he's crazy, but he's a big way surfer and very

0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:16.280
<v Speaker 1>good at like sort of pretty feelers.

0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:18.840
<v Speaker 2>When you're out on the surf and you see like

0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:21.719
<v Speaker 2>a black line coming sort of like comes, it comes up,

0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:24.320
<v Speaker 2>it looks like it kind of covers the horizon. You

0:45:24.360 --> 0:45:27.319
<v Speaker 2>see these things come in and your natural instinct just

0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.160
<v Speaker 2>paddle out. Yeah, and they just see it. They hold

0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:32.520
<v Speaker 2>they just go in a little bit and it's frightening,

0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:35.040
<v Speaker 2>like you surely you can't be looking at this. They

0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:36.759
<v Speaker 2>look They put their head down and get this look

0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:40.000
<v Speaker 2>in their eye and spin and go. It's so confronting.

0:45:41.000 --> 0:45:43.600
<v Speaker 1>What do you think then, what's the makeup of these people?

0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Like? Uh, someone like Kobe, I think he's just crazy.

0:45:48.800 --> 0:45:50.840
<v Speaker 2>And then someone like I don't know whether you know

0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:55.120
<v Speaker 2>if we're going, named Mark Matthews. He is more. He

0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:58.600
<v Speaker 2>tries to make a formula for fear. So he sits

0:45:58.640 --> 0:46:01.439
<v Speaker 2>there and he's like, look up in his eyelids up

0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.759
<v Speaker 2>and just calms down, breathes through his nose and then

0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:09.640
<v Speaker 2>this chills everything out. And yeah, everyone's different, but yeah,

0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 2>they just have this I don't know whether they fear less,

0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:14.680
<v Speaker 2>but they just have this appetite for risk. But it's

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:16.400
<v Speaker 2>astonishing to watch.

0:46:17.200 --> 0:46:20.400
<v Speaker 1>But some people would say those guys, for example, some

0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.759
<v Speaker 1>of those guys would say Sam Macintosh, like it's pretty weird,

0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:27.399
<v Speaker 1>like he has this mad appetite for risk in relation

0:46:27.520 --> 0:46:30.080
<v Speaker 1>to business or just doing some of the shit that

0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:32.239
<v Speaker 1>you've done. I mean, do you really actually see this

0:46:33.120 --> 0:46:37.200
<v Speaker 1>much difference? The techniques are difference different and the platform

0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:41.040
<v Speaker 1>they work on is different, but the process and the

0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:44.680
<v Speaker 1>outcome are the same in that we all choose to

0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:47.560
<v Speaker 1>be to take not all of us, but people take

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:50.759
<v Speaker 1>Some people choose to take risks in certain areas and

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:53.799
<v Speaker 1>are able to manage that risk, that risk taking, all

0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:56.239
<v Speaker 1>that fear of taking the risk. I mean you do

0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:58.680
<v Speaker 1>it in business. We're doing a business. Maybe now some

0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:01.480
<v Speaker 1>more plain sailing, but then you know, back then.

0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.640
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's you'd be the same. There's there's situations

0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:07.799
<v Speaker 2>that you'd be really comfortable in that some people are uncomfortable.

0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And then vice versa.

0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:12.399
<v Speaker 1>Right, So why why in your case is so you're

0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:14.120
<v Speaker 1>saying the same thing. So why do you think in

0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:18.359
<v Speaker 1>your case business risk is not really that bigger risk.

0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:21.759
<v Speaker 1>It's not it's not a bigger deal. Just like some

0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:24.600
<v Speaker 1>of these guys serve these huge waves, they alsoay it's

0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:26.239
<v Speaker 1>no big deal, you know, for anyone else seeing this

0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:27.399
<v Speaker 1>black wall coming up.

0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:32.800
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, there is a sort of there is a correlation,

0:47:32.880 --> 0:47:35.080
<v Speaker 2>for sure. I like big waves, not to that level,

0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:38.680
<v Speaker 2>but I really like big surf and there isn't a

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.600
<v Speaker 2>there isn't adrenaline that comes with it. And so you

0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:45.840
<v Speaker 2>love your you like the adrenaline, Yeah, I love it. Yeah, Yeah,

0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:48.080
<v Speaker 2>I love getting I love getting hurt in the surf.

0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:50.000
<v Speaker 2>But when it's not really bad injuries.

0:47:49.719 --> 0:47:50.480
<v Speaker 1>It's not going to kill you.

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like those ones. Yeah, but it's it's like

0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:56.879
<v Speaker 2>the feeling of going out, getting washed around, getting cut

0:47:56.960 --> 0:47:59.000
<v Speaker 2>up and blood coming out of you. I just it

0:47:59.040 --> 0:48:03.319
<v Speaker 2>feels I don't know, that's when I feel most life.

0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:04.759
<v Speaker 1>But what do you think that fucking is?

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Like?

0:48:05.600 --> 0:48:07.160
<v Speaker 1>I like it in business too, by the way.

0:48:07.400 --> 0:48:07.879
<v Speaker 2>It's a good.

0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:09.759
<v Speaker 1>Feeling, right, yeah, I mean like people you say, well,

0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:11.360
<v Speaker 1>you get in the boxing ring. I actually like getting hit.

0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean to give a fuck and I want to

0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:15.480
<v Speaker 1>does it hurt that doesn't know that much? And now

0:48:15.520 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you some back, like I enjoy it. Yeah,

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 1>it's more a little bit. I don't do it these

0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:23.520
<v Speaker 1>days because you know, you get brain evage. I'm getting

0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:26.120
<v Speaker 1>older and stuff too, But I used to love its,

0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:30.000
<v Speaker 1>like just I don't care fucking throw a punch of that, like,

0:48:30.400 --> 0:48:34.680
<v Speaker 1>go for it. It's a weird destruct Do you think

0:48:34.680 --> 0:48:35.680
<v Speaker 1>it's a self destruct thing.

0:48:37.400 --> 0:48:39.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I just yeah, there's something about that,

0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:44.239
<v Speaker 2>the heart wreck coming up, and that it almost gives

0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:47.240
<v Speaker 2>you this kind of I don't know, sort of kevlar

0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:49.160
<v Speaker 2>around you or something, and you kind of it's good

0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:51.560
<v Speaker 2>to just get pushed your elements, like push your limits

0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:53.560
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. I don't know what it is. I

0:48:53.600 --> 0:48:55.600
<v Speaker 2>can't articulate it, but I do like it.

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Because you see these people climbing a rock face without

0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.640
<v Speaker 1>any gear on them, leave no ropes and shit, and

0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:02.879
<v Speaker 1>I thought, every think, what the fuck, Like you're off

0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:05.560
<v Speaker 1>your head like crazy, like I can just imagine I

0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:09.960
<v Speaker 1>can imagine my grip losing my grip from fear your

0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:12.839
<v Speaker 1>strength sort of disappearing and then then you're fucking four.

0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:17.600
<v Speaker 1>I ask you, such a rush, and I think that's

0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:20.120
<v Speaker 1>part of it, Like it's the rush. And there's not

0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.640
<v Speaker 1>that many people who do this in their lives, Like

0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.800
<v Speaker 1>would you recommend? Do you reckon? You could have survived,

0:49:26.960 --> 0:49:29.160
<v Speaker 1>had a good life without having done these things.

0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:31.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I'd be in business, know without the risk,

0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not. It was and like we've never we've never

0:49:36.920 --> 0:49:40.080
<v Speaker 2>had any outside money, unstable, any investment from anyone, so

0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:42.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of happened, had to answer to anyone. So you

0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:46.799
<v Speaker 2>can kind of make irrational bets. And that's what I

0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:49.480
<v Speaker 2>like about it. And it's you, it's only on you.

0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Then you can just it's all about the execution. And

0:49:51.239 --> 0:49:53.400
<v Speaker 2>then so I do. I do love the irrational bets.

0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:55.920
<v Speaker 2>So how long would you own stabboard before you sold us?

0:49:55.920 --> 0:49:57.520
<v Speaker 1>So like you sold stam and you brought it back,

0:49:57.520 --> 0:50:00.240
<v Speaker 1>but like how long would you own stab for?

0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:04.439
<v Speaker 2>For eleven years? Ten or eleven years? Yeah?

0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:08.239
<v Speaker 1>And you were how we when you started like twenty

0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:09.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty five?

0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:13.919
<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, twenty five. I sat it thirty five

0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:17.520
<v Speaker 2>or thirty six? And who'd you sell it? To? Sort

0:50:17.560 --> 0:50:19.480
<v Speaker 2>it to surf stitch online retailer.

0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, the retailer.

0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So they had this big plan to weave content

0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:28.560
<v Speaker 2>and commerce together, right yeah.

0:50:28.480 --> 0:50:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sort of like a convergence of the two. Yeah, yeah,

0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:35.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of use the magazine to promote their own brand

0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:38.440
<v Speaker 1>as well, and hopefully the magazine makes money. So presume

0:50:38.520 --> 0:50:41.000
<v Speaker 1>it was profitable when they bought it. Yes, so they

0:50:41.000 --> 0:50:44.200
<v Speaker 1>bought a profitable business merging into their business. You're going

0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:47.360
<v Speaker 1>to use this profitable business to build an audience who's

0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:49.120
<v Speaker 1>who's their audience, were part of the audience who buy

0:50:49.239 --> 0:50:53.200
<v Speaker 1>stuff from them, and then advertise to that audience as

0:50:53.200 --> 0:50:55.440
<v Speaker 1>well through the magazine. Yeah, that was a theory.

0:50:55.760 --> 0:50:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the line with the CEOs.

0:50:57.480 --> 0:50:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, probably what he said to you when he was

0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:01.680
<v Speaker 1>saying with this were doing. Did you stay on when

0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:02.239
<v Speaker 1>you sold it?

0:51:02.560 --> 0:51:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I did? Yeah, so I my shares were investing, so

0:51:06.520 --> 0:51:07.719
<v Speaker 2>you get to kind of get the chunk and then

0:51:07.800 --> 0:51:09.920
<v Speaker 2>shares vested, and so part of my dealers. I moved

0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:12.919
<v Speaker 2>to the US. My shares vested early, so I moved

0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:13.480
<v Speaker 2>to the US.

0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 1>They to open up a store, opened up the business

0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:16.960
<v Speaker 1>in the US.

0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then the surf Stitch in the US.

0:51:20.680 --> 0:51:21.640
<v Speaker 1>No, No, but.

0:51:21.600 --> 0:51:23.879
<v Speaker 2>They had an online retail over there called Swell Right,

0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:25.439
<v Speaker 2>and so I was sort of working on Swell, working

0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:30.240
<v Speaker 2>on stab over there, and then the ceo, Justin Cameron,

0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:32.560
<v Speaker 2>he bailed and then a new CEO came in and

0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:34.640
<v Speaker 2>he didn't like the strategy. That's when we got unloaded.

0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:36.080
<v Speaker 1>But you brought it back.

0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we got really lucky. So we tried really hard

0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:43.560
<v Speaker 2>on the broader business. They are quite a bunch of

0:51:44.200 --> 0:51:46.439
<v Speaker 2>quite a bunch of different businesses at that point, and

0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:48.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of those founders took the cash and pailed,

0:51:50.320 --> 0:51:52.759
<v Speaker 2>and so when it came to the negotiation a we

0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:56.080
<v Speaker 2>were then unprofitable. And then so it wasn't that easy

0:51:56.120 --> 0:52:00.239
<v Speaker 2>to sell. Surf industry was sort of instructured. Declient media

0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 2>was obviously in structural decline, so there wasn't a cue

0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:05.040
<v Speaker 2>of people down the street trying to buy surf media.

0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:08.920
<v Speaker 2>And then we mean a game for so long we

0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:12.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of knew any potential suitors, my partner and I,

0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:15.600
<v Speaker 2>and so we started buying the phones, like, hey, if

0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:17.799
<v Speaker 2>this thing gets bundled up and you buy this thing,

0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:19.480
<v Speaker 2>we're not we're not involved to so you know that

0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:22.640
<v Speaker 2>anything loses money and so.

0:52:22.480 --> 0:52:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Which means that turn turn them turn them away straight away. Yeah,

0:52:26.120 --> 0:52:28.640
<v Speaker 1>so you sort of like condition the market a little

0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:31.200
<v Speaker 1>bit maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it.

0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And so then then it was we had the

0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:35.719
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to buy it back. But tom my partner was like,

0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:38.399
<v Speaker 2>let's just get this thing done. Let's put a let's

0:52:38.440 --> 0:52:42.000
<v Speaker 2>put a let's put an offer, and I'm just hold, oh,

0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:43.719
<v Speaker 2>just relax. We're going to get this thing back. We're

0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:46.440
<v Speaker 2>going to get it back, which is stressful because if

0:52:46.440 --> 0:52:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you hadn't lost it for a small fee, like a

0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:53.359
<v Speaker 2>small sonomenal sum, would be frustrating. But yeah, it all

0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:54.799
<v Speaker 2>turned out in the end. It's all turned out well

0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:55.200
<v Speaker 2>in the end.

0:52:55.440 --> 0:52:57.359
<v Speaker 1>And just just like for my benefit, do you think

0:52:57.400 --> 0:53:02.000
<v Speaker 1>that's an error of the own or the buyer who

0:53:02.000 --> 0:53:06.920
<v Speaker 1>became the owner to keep in the business the two founders,

0:53:07.520 --> 0:53:11.240
<v Speaker 1>because to some extent, whilst you've got paid, you're getting

0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:16.759
<v Speaker 1>paid tranches, and you had effectively probably a turnout or

0:53:16.800 --> 0:53:18.960
<v Speaker 1>something like that sitting at the end of it at

0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.520
<v Speaker 1>the purchase price. And as something starts to the demise

0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:26.560
<v Speaker 1>of something starts to change, the owner says, okay, want unloaded.

0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:28.840
<v Speaker 1>But the problem is you've got the original founders still there.

0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Even though the original founders don't own the shares, they're

0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:33.360
<v Speaker 1>still owned the business. I mean, to a large extent,

0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.640
<v Speaker 1>to the to the to the broader public. The broader

0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:39.600
<v Speaker 1>public thinks, so ship like, these guys have been running

0:53:39.600 --> 0:53:42.759
<v Speaker 1>it forever they founded it. They've been running it. Now

0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:44.680
<v Speaker 1>if I buy it and they're not going to be there,

0:53:44.800 --> 0:53:45.719
<v Speaker 1>what am I buying.

0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Do?

0:53:48.080 --> 0:53:52.439
<v Speaker 1>That's an error from the buyer dash owner's point of view.

0:53:54.000 --> 0:53:56.919
<v Speaker 2>So so you mean on the person buying it from

0:53:56.920 --> 0:53:57.840
<v Speaker 2>surf stage, Yeah.

0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:00.919
<v Speaker 1>No, person buying it from you have you stay there

0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:03.839
<v Speaker 1>as a founder and then getting in to a position

0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:06.839
<v Speaker 1>where they wanted to resell it or sell it if

0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:08.480
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to be a go alongside it. But

0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:12.520
<v Speaker 1>having having had you there the whole time basically sort

0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:15.920
<v Speaker 1>of kept you in that founder position, which means that

0:54:15.960 --> 0:54:17.640
<v Speaker 1>if you're going to leave, a new buyer is going

0:54:17.640 --> 0:54:18.920
<v Speaker 1>to say, way on, these guys are going to live

0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:20.799
<v Speaker 1>there and set it up to a new one down

0:54:20.960 --> 0:54:25.680
<v Speaker 1>around the corner exactly. Yeah, So it sort of it

0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:27.439
<v Speaker 1>negatized the value big time.

0:54:28.160 --> 0:54:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was. It would have been very difficult to sell.

0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Put you in control of it.

0:54:31.600 --> 0:54:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we got really lucky so yeah, we did that.

0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:37.239
<v Speaker 1>So you conditioned the market and then you were then

0:54:37.320 --> 0:54:38.840
<v Speaker 1>did you put a consortium together to buy it or

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:39.600
<v Speaker 1>did you buy yourselves?

0:54:41.200 --> 0:54:43.440
<v Speaker 2>It was a dollar Australian.

0:54:43.040 --> 0:54:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Nothing because they were losing money. So basically you would

0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:48.160
<v Speaker 1>just like stop the bleeding. Yeah, just take it away

0:54:48.160 --> 0:54:48.480
<v Speaker 1>from us.

0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you know what it's like. You go into

0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:53.359
<v Speaker 2>a bigger business, You've got to amortize their accounting, their

0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:55.359
<v Speaker 2>rents and everything else. All of a sudden you got

0:54:55.360 --> 0:54:57.160
<v Speaker 2>this stress on the business. We weren't running the way

0:54:57.160 --> 0:54:59.600
<v Speaker 2>we wanted to run it, and so I was like,

0:54:59.719 --> 0:55:02.359
<v Speaker 2>just let's just cut the bleeding as soon as we can.

0:55:02.560 --> 0:55:05.239
<v Speaker 1>So what what happened? So just to explain to me

0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:09.600
<v Speaker 1>what happened in the surfing world contraction of digital media

0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:12.719
<v Speaker 1>or media generally speaking for surfing, What happened? Where did

0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:14.000
<v Speaker 1>this contraction come from?

0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think surf media was anomally at all. I

0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:20.239
<v Speaker 2>think it's just in the broader media just it went.

0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:25.120
<v Speaker 2>I guess Internet, social media, YouTube, all of those those

0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:28.040
<v Speaker 2>outside forces, those exogenous forces, put a pressure on media.

0:55:29.120 --> 0:55:35.000
<v Speaker 1>And they are you saying that those other places like Instagram,

0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:38.400
<v Speaker 1>for example, they took people away from buying the magazine

0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:41.000
<v Speaker 1>because I'm getting my thrills by looking at something on

0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Instagram for half a minute or whatever it is, reels

0:55:43.640 --> 0:55:46.000
<v Speaker 1>or whatever the case may be, TikTok et cetera. So

0:55:46.040 --> 0:55:47.920
<v Speaker 1>therefore I don't really need to buy the magazine anymore.

0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's twofold, so they can get the audience through

0:55:50.520 --> 0:55:53.520
<v Speaker 2>your phone. And then the if you want your you're

0:55:53.880 --> 0:55:56.600
<v Speaker 2>advertising efficient and measure We can't measure the efficiency of

0:55:56.600 --> 0:55:59.279
<v Speaker 2>a magazine or a billboard, or you can, but it's

0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:01.920
<v Speaker 2>very difficult. You can. Everything is so measurable when you

0:56:01.920 --> 0:56:04.719
<v Speaker 2>do it on the phone, going through Google, Facebook, which

0:56:04.840 --> 0:56:09.319
<v Speaker 2>is Instagram and everything else. So yeah, it was. Yeah,

0:56:09.520 --> 0:56:13.719
<v Speaker 2>they were pretty significant headwinds. And then what's interesting is

0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:16.840
<v Speaker 2>the whole time you're in business, you think you have

0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:19.000
<v Speaker 2>all these enemies. And for us it was like our

0:56:19.040 --> 0:56:22.640
<v Speaker 2>surfer is the enemy, surfing magazine Transworld or in Australia's

0:56:22.680 --> 0:56:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Surfing World and.

0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Tracks surfing wards when I was seeing a bat.

0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then those magazines go away, like in America

0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Surfer Surfing, Transworld, they are just crumbled. Yeah, the next

0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:37.000
<v Speaker 2>day your business isn't any better. Yeah, it's not that

0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:39.239
<v Speaker 2>you kind of realize that never the enemy, the enemy,

0:56:39.239 --> 0:56:44.280
<v Speaker 2>these outside forced the market, Yeah, exactly, which was really interesting.

0:56:44.560 --> 0:56:47.160
<v Speaker 1>So you went brought it back for a dollar, But like,

0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:50.120
<v Speaker 1>why did you bother buying it back when you know

0:56:50.160 --> 0:56:53.920
<v Speaker 1>that there's a contraction? What is it? Because you're just

0:56:54.080 --> 0:56:56.279
<v Speaker 1>sort of emotionally attached to it or you didn't want

0:56:56.280 --> 0:56:57.160
<v Speaker 1>to see it die.

0:56:57.360 --> 0:56:59.640
<v Speaker 2>We had a plan for the future. We were kind

0:56:59.640 --> 0:57:03.759
<v Speaker 2>of knew where we wanted to go. We knew, we

0:57:04.120 --> 0:57:06.440
<v Speaker 2>hoped that we had a Yeah, we kind of had

0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:11.600
<v Speaker 2>a business model that we thought could endure. And it's

0:57:11.640 --> 0:57:14.320
<v Speaker 2>not like because the challenge with all those other magazines

0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:16.760
<v Speaker 2>are owned by big publishers, so they couldn't move quickly,

0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:18.560
<v Speaker 2>and it felt like they were in a tanker. We're

0:57:18.560 --> 0:57:20.760
<v Speaker 2>in a zodiac and we're just zipping around and we

0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:24.000
<v Speaker 2>could we could move really quickly and then we don't

0:57:24.040 --> 0:57:26.400
<v Speaker 2>care about risk. So it was like spend here, spend there,

0:57:26.400 --> 0:57:28.480
<v Speaker 2>don't spend here. But like we're not like we have

0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:29.720
<v Speaker 2>to make this much money this year.

0:57:30.280 --> 0:57:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but like your you still have to get advertisers.

0:57:35.520 --> 0:57:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Was the demise of STAB under the previous ownership before

0:57:38.800 --> 0:57:41.360
<v Speaker 1>you before you brought it back, was it about not.

0:57:41.680 --> 0:57:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Was it about having too heavy an expense relative to

0:57:45.200 --> 0:57:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the revenues because the revenues had contracted because there was

0:57:50.080 --> 0:57:52.760
<v Speaker 1>too many other places that advertisers could advertisement.

0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.520
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a really good question. So the reason it

0:57:57.560 --> 0:57:59.920
<v Speaker 2>failed on the surf Stitch where they were trying to

0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:02.760
<v Speaker 2>build their own platform. So say you're from Hurley and

0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:04.280
<v Speaker 2>we do one hundred grand deal with you at early,

0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:07.840
<v Speaker 2>and you're trying to drive sales to your early online

0:58:07.840 --> 0:58:10.080
<v Speaker 2>store because everyone wants direct to consume a better margin.

0:58:10.360 --> 0:58:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Makes perfect sense right now. We were under instruction that

0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:17.120
<v Speaker 2>if Hurley's been one hundred grand, we had to push

0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:20.560
<v Speaker 2>early traffic back to surf stitch, and.

0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:22.400
<v Speaker 1>How they hang on a seconding any of issues for that.

0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so all of a sudden our advertising diminished

0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:29.160
<v Speaker 2>because who would do up pretty quick?

0:58:29.280 --> 0:58:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so effectively being competed on.

0:58:32.160 --> 0:58:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, And so we became unprofitable really quickly because

0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:35.360
<v Speaker 2>of that.

0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So under the previous owners that you lost advertisers

0:58:40.520 --> 0:58:43.880
<v Speaker 1>because the advertising model just didn't work. Yeah, But once

0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:45.960
<v Speaker 1>you owned it, you don't have serf stitch, you're not

0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:48.880
<v Speaker 1>trying to redirect traffic. You put it back into an

0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:49.840
<v Speaker 1>even footing, and.

0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Then I got the secret weapon, which is my partner

0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:54.240
<v Speaker 2>who's a complete magician. So I knew we were going to

0:58:54.280 --> 0:58:56.560
<v Speaker 2>be fine. Do you mean, oh, he's the guy I

0:58:56.560 --> 0:58:58.840
<v Speaker 2>told you about with the soft science skills. Yeah, he's

0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:01.040
<v Speaker 2>just he's always in the clade. He build a lot

0:59:01.040 --> 0:59:04.320
<v Speaker 2>of trust here, will work with people. A marketing director

0:59:04.360 --> 0:59:07.680
<v Speaker 2>will go from brand to brand to brand, and he'll

0:59:07.680 --> 0:59:10.080
<v Speaker 2>worked them for ten fifteen years. And every place the

0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:12.080
<v Speaker 2>new person goes, they call him up, we want to

0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:16.560
<v Speaker 2>do a deal. And so I knew we had the

0:59:16.560 --> 0:59:20.360
<v Speaker 2>best chance of success on this advertising model. That was

0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:21.360
<v Speaker 2>until COVID hit.

0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:24.680
<v Speaker 1>So hawd to go up, until Covid was a mega

0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:26.040
<v Speaker 1>money Yeah, you reversed it.

0:59:26.240 --> 0:59:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we grew five hundred percent after.

0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:32.680
<v Speaker 1>I moved to the audience or percent profits well yeah,

0:59:32.680 --> 0:59:35.400
<v Speaker 1>revenue revenue.

0:59:35.600 --> 0:59:38.320
<v Speaker 2>By moving to the US. That that was the biggest

0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:42.200
<v Speaker 2>success we'd had, which was great, and then we kind

0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:44.160
<v Speaker 2>of became a major player. That was sort of we

0:59:44.200 --> 0:59:47.560
<v Speaker 2>went from being at outside in Australia to an international voice.

0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:49.880
<v Speaker 1>So would that be like one of the biggest magazines

0:59:49.920 --> 0:59:54.200
<v Speaker 1>today surfing surfing online and serving magazines today?

0:59:55.040 --> 0:59:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the tallest mid yet yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's

0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:00.600
<v Speaker 2>a small business, but yeah, yeah, but yeah we would

1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:03.479
<v Speaker 2>be but significant, yeah, yeah, in significant in terms.

1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>And what by the way, you mentioned COVID, what happened covid?

1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:09.360
<v Speaker 2>So covid, we just like everyone else, no one you

1:00:09.360 --> 1:00:10.680
<v Speaker 2>know what the future is going to hold. And then

1:00:10.680 --> 1:00:12.440
<v Speaker 2>we got the calls we're out, we're out, We're out.

1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:15.960
<v Speaker 2>And then that's when we went to a subscription model. Yeah,

1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:20.080
<v Speaker 2>in the December twenty twenty, so monthly fee or an

1:00:20.120 --> 1:00:20.640
<v Speaker 2>annual fee.

1:00:20.640 --> 1:00:22.400
<v Speaker 1>And that was the because you know, I could rely

1:00:22.480 --> 1:00:23.600
<v Speaker 1>upon advertisers.

1:00:23.720 --> 1:00:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we weren't sure, we wanted we always wanted to

1:00:25.840 --> 1:00:28.160
<v Speaker 2>do it, and it was just like the push that

1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:32.560
<v Speaker 2>we needed and so that was absolutely revolutionary for what's.

1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:35.280
<v Speaker 1>A monthly subscription? Is it different levels?

1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:40.680
<v Speaker 2>It's monthly I think is talking US dollars sorry, maybe

1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:45.120
<v Speaker 2>ten or twelve US right a month and then seventy

1:00:45.200 --> 1:00:46.400
<v Speaker 2>or eighty annually.

1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you're so, yeah, so you get discomfort doing

1:00:49.880 --> 1:00:53.560
<v Speaker 1>it and paying annually. So your business mode now is

1:00:54.600 --> 1:00:58.080
<v Speaker 1>people get paid subscription as opposed to you lying so

1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:01.920
<v Speaker 1>heavily on advertisers. Yes, that's pretty sort of modern, you know,

1:01:02.360 --> 1:01:04.280
<v Speaker 1>that's the bottom way to do things. You sort of

1:01:04.440 --> 1:01:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess you probably are forced into doing that. Yeah,

1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 1>we did no choice, you had to try it out anyway.

1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:10.840
<v Speaker 2>But it's so much easier run a business because you

1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:12.880
<v Speaker 2>can just you have a consistency, you have a better

1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:15.680
<v Speaker 2>eye on cash flow. And then as a flips, I

1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:18.120
<v Speaker 2>think because you get the vanity metrics of social media.

1:01:18.600 --> 1:01:20.160
<v Speaker 2>So you put up a clip, you might at six

1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:23.480
<v Speaker 2>million views or how many views on YouTube, which is great,

1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:25.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's not always a business. And that's where the

1:01:25.720 --> 1:01:28.480
<v Speaker 2>challenge we were in. And I think these surf brands

1:01:28.480 --> 1:01:31.280
<v Speaker 2>that get they have really wild up and down success

1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:34.640
<v Speaker 2>as well. But we're like, hey, we found the people

1:01:35.000 --> 1:01:36.680
<v Speaker 2>in the world who want to put their credit card

1:01:36.680 --> 1:01:39.440
<v Speaker 2>down for media. They're the ones they're way more chance

1:01:39.520 --> 1:01:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of converting to being a customer as opposed to just

1:01:41.400 --> 1:01:43.360
<v Speaker 2>anyone any of you you're getting on the internet.

1:01:43.560 --> 1:01:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how'd you work at the price? How do you

1:01:48.480 --> 1:01:50.880
<v Speaker 1>work out how much will someone pay? What's the right

1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:54.240
<v Speaker 1>subscription price? I mean, did you say, well, Netflix is

1:01:54.280 --> 1:01:56.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty bucks a month, so it's got to be less

1:01:56.000 --> 1:01:57.800
<v Speaker 1>than there? And when how did you work get that out?

1:01:59.320 --> 1:02:01.880
<v Speaker 2>We had a guy who was running the premium and

1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:03.959
<v Speaker 2>he just came up with it. We kind of sounds

1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:06.480
<v Speaker 2>good enough to ask, Yeah, kind of ballpark like it

1:02:06.520 --> 1:02:11.040
<v Speaker 2>was in line in the US with sort of Disney Disney,

1:02:12.920 --> 1:02:14.600
<v Speaker 2>what is it over there? What have we got here?

1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:19.040
<v Speaker 2>We've got Binge. They're different, but Disney Netflix, it was

1:02:19.080 --> 1:02:22.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of ball It sits alongside those. But it's really interesting.

1:02:22.520 --> 1:02:24.280
<v Speaker 2>You go and see what Netflix spend on content a year,

1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:27.360
<v Speaker 2>which is like eight billion or whatever, and wear the

1:02:27.360 --> 1:02:31.160
<v Speaker 2>same price, and we spend say four US on our content.

1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.600
<v Speaker 2>So it's just yeah, it's it's interesting.

1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:37.240
<v Speaker 1>And so given the state of the US at the moment,

1:02:37.360 --> 1:02:40.080
<v Speaker 1>I remember was heading towards the recession, but it looks

1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:43.520
<v Speaker 1>like it's come back. It's doing pretty well. Has there

1:02:43.560 --> 1:02:49.080
<v Speaker 1>been any net effect on your subscriptions post COVID that

1:02:49.160 --> 1:02:53.120
<v Speaker 1>inflation period, higher rangiust rates both here and in the

1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:55.520
<v Speaker 1>US or around the world generally, have you seen any

1:02:55.640 --> 1:02:57.280
<v Speaker 1>change in your subscription base.

1:02:57.520 --> 1:03:02.600
<v Speaker 2>We haven't. We've been lucky. We're still growing. But when

1:03:02.640 --> 1:03:05.600
<v Speaker 2>you opt out, when you churn out, there's the you

1:03:05.640 --> 1:03:07.400
<v Speaker 2>can sort of say the reason for leaving, and then

1:03:07.520 --> 1:03:10.240
<v Speaker 2>the highest rate one is affordability.

1:03:10.760 --> 1:03:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, Okay, that's what that's And it's not your affordability.

1:03:13.520 --> 1:03:16.960
<v Speaker 1>It's your affordability in a whole affordability pack like everything

1:03:16.960 --> 1:03:20.040
<v Speaker 1>else like cost of living, general, general living, like so

1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:23.000
<v Speaker 1>I've got to cut some costs somewhere. And so do

1:03:23.040 --> 1:03:26.720
<v Speaker 1>you see yourself then is stab subscription? Do you see

1:03:26.720 --> 1:03:31.000
<v Speaker 1>yourself more in the surfing world surfing the people who subscribe?

1:03:32.080 --> 1:03:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Would you consider yourself as a luxury or a necessity?

1:03:36.280 --> 1:03:38.760
<v Speaker 1>I think we're a luxury, But can you build yourself

1:03:38.760 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 1>into being a necessity? In other words, we're going to

1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:43.040
<v Speaker 1>tell you shit that you need to know when it

1:03:43.080 --> 1:03:47.640
<v Speaker 1>comes to do you put up on your website? Do

1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:51.440
<v Speaker 1>you have like surfing additions in somewhere in America where

1:03:51.440 --> 1:03:53.160
<v Speaker 1>every would likes to on surf, like you have like

1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:56.120
<v Speaker 1>a you know, like the wind and the swell and

1:03:56.400 --> 1:03:57.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, do you have updates?

1:03:57.720 --> 1:04:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Do you when you talk about those? Like So there's

1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:04.040
<v Speaker 2>surf line, right, which is cameras all around the beaches

1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:06.600
<v Speaker 2>are all around the world, and surf forecasting that is

1:04:06.600 --> 1:04:08.800
<v Speaker 2>more of a utility. Ours is sort of more on

1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the entertainment side.

1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Right, And we don't have that. You don't have the

1:04:11.600 --> 1:04:14.680
<v Speaker 1>utility in there because because I was going to ask you,

1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:17.480
<v Speaker 1>how do you think you can make yourself a necessity

1:04:17.480 --> 1:04:19.160
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to it, let's call a luxury or a

1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:22.720
<v Speaker 1>discretionary spend, in other words, non discretionary. I've got a

1:04:22.760 --> 1:04:25.120
<v Speaker 1>fucking have it. Yeah, it's my drug.

1:04:26.000 --> 1:04:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I guess the entertainment is the drug. Like,

1:04:29.080 --> 1:04:32.120
<v Speaker 2>how vital do you can you be to that audience?

1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't have the answer to.

1:04:33.480 --> 1:04:35.880
<v Speaker 1>That question because my gap feeling is like the surfing

1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:41.720
<v Speaker 1>people in the surfing world, they love the drug of entertainment,

1:04:42.280 --> 1:04:44.560
<v Speaker 1>surfing entertainment and all the ship that goes with it.

1:04:45.080 --> 1:04:48.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can still remember going sitting I'm one

1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:50.720
<v Speaker 1>of them. But because I'm like a, you know, like a,

1:04:51.720 --> 1:04:56.240
<v Speaker 1>I can get quite addictive. We're addicted. I remember. I

1:04:56.280 --> 1:04:58.200
<v Speaker 1>can still remember to this very day, and it gives

1:04:58.200 --> 1:05:04.600
<v Speaker 1>me goose. Sitting in a all up the North Coast

1:05:04.920 --> 1:05:08.520
<v Speaker 1>on sort of plastic chairs watching Morning of the Earth

1:05:09.920 --> 1:05:12.240
<v Speaker 1>when it first came out. I can still and I

1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:17.840
<v Speaker 1>can still remember the soundtrack and the sort of the

1:05:17.920 --> 1:05:21.000
<v Speaker 1>addiction I had towards that, and I actually bought the

1:05:21.560 --> 1:05:24.480
<v Speaker 1>little tape. We had a tape deck and we used

1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:27.440
<v Speaker 1>to play it literally we had three tapes with that

1:05:27.560 --> 1:05:31.120
<v Speaker 1>and you know, a couple of other a couple of

1:05:31.160 --> 1:05:34.120
<v Speaker 1>other tapes. You didn't have much money, so but that's

1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:36.840
<v Speaker 1>what we would listen to listen to it. Like it

1:05:36.880 --> 1:05:40.880
<v Speaker 1>was like impossible for me to go through a day

1:05:40.920 --> 1:05:43.720
<v Speaker 1>without having listened to that music, only because I wanted

1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:47.640
<v Speaker 1>to remember back the vision of the movie. It was

1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:50.400
<v Speaker 1>fucking uncomfortable, hot and it was shitty, but the movie

1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:52.120
<v Speaker 1>was just was one of the first. But it was

1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:53.200
<v Speaker 1>unbelievable for me.

1:05:53.640 --> 1:05:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Film heat unbelievable and.

1:05:58.280 --> 1:06:02.320
<v Speaker 1>I'll never forget it. And I would have been if

1:06:02.320 --> 1:06:03.720
<v Speaker 1>someone had has said to me that, like you can

1:06:03.720 --> 1:06:07.919
<v Speaker 1>get that high by buying a magazine, and I would

1:06:07.960 --> 1:06:10.120
<v Speaker 1>have kept doing it because it was a digital back

1:06:10.120 --> 1:06:15.280
<v Speaker 1>then those days, of course, But can you see you've

1:06:15.280 --> 1:06:17.200
<v Speaker 1>got great vision of these things. Can you see something

1:06:17.240 --> 1:06:23.440
<v Speaker 1>that your magazine can present to surface and our surface

1:06:23.440 --> 1:06:25.000
<v Speaker 1>is still the same sort of people? Are they still

1:06:25.040 --> 1:06:25.400
<v Speaker 1>the same?

1:06:26.440 --> 1:06:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I think so generally. I think the one the one

1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:34.880
<v Speaker 2>advantage we have for being in a smaller kind of space.

1:06:34.920 --> 1:06:39.000
<v Speaker 2>So if you look at say a GQ or an

1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:43.080
<v Speaker 2>Esquire or a Rolling Stone and they get their cover

1:06:43.160 --> 1:06:45.200
<v Speaker 2>star that comes in so they again, Edge Shearan or

1:06:45.440 --> 1:06:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Bad Bunny or Taylor Swift. They come in,

1:06:48.720 --> 1:06:50.400
<v Speaker 2>they do the shoot, they do the interview, they have

1:06:50.440 --> 1:06:55.120
<v Speaker 2>the lead profile. Really for those businesses to go to

1:06:55.160 --> 1:06:57.240
<v Speaker 2>move to paywall like the way we have, they kind

1:06:57.280 --> 1:07:00.600
<v Speaker 2>of need to make expert documentaries and really authoritive just

1:07:01.400 --> 1:07:04.040
<v Speaker 2>the inside lane, and they're just really where they have

1:07:04.120 --> 1:07:08.480
<v Speaker 2>their domain expertise. The challenge they have is those celebrities

1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:10.439
<v Speaker 2>are such big names in their own right. They're never

1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:14.480
<v Speaker 2>going to do a documentary with Esquire or GQ. They're

1:07:14.480 --> 1:07:16.640
<v Speaker 2>going to go and do their own deal with HBO

1:07:16.760 --> 1:07:19.080
<v Speaker 2>or Disney or Netflix or one of the big streamers

1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:25.360
<v Speaker 2>for US. Dane Reynolds is an amazing poor Twiggy Baker.

1:07:26.080 --> 1:07:28.400
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot Ferrera. They're huge in our world, but

1:07:28.440 --> 1:07:30.680
<v Speaker 2>they're not huge. They're not big enough for the streaming world.

1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Mick Fanning could probably go across the streamers, Bethany Hamilton maybe,

1:07:34.440 --> 1:07:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Kelly maybe. But if we can keep working with these superstars,

1:07:38.360 --> 1:07:40.240
<v Speaker 2>that's about as vital as we can get. And to

1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:42.080
<v Speaker 2>create those moments where you have to sign up for

1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:45.400
<v Speaker 2>what you're talking about, I don't know whether we can

1:07:45.440 --> 1:07:49.080
<v Speaker 2>create that same chemistry as Morning Girl. I hope we can.

1:07:49.800 --> 1:07:53.760
<v Speaker 2>But I think us surfing being so small is actually

1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:55.080
<v Speaker 2>of benefit to us.

1:07:55.560 --> 1:07:57.920
<v Speaker 1>The talent is so small in terms of there's not

1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:01.680
<v Speaker 1>it's not Tyler Swift, it's not Tello Swift.

1:08:01.720 --> 1:08:04.240
<v Speaker 2>So say we're in soccer and when to do something

1:08:04.320 --> 1:08:06.240
<v Speaker 2>like messy and those great players do they go and

1:08:06.240 --> 1:08:11.640
<v Speaker 2>do their own deals. But surfing it's really big and broad,

1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:13.320
<v Speaker 2>but it's not really it's not too big, So we

1:08:13.320 --> 1:08:16.880
<v Speaker 2>still have access to those our superstars, and I think

1:08:16.880 --> 1:08:18.439
<v Speaker 2>that's the way that we can get those people and

1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:27.120
<v Speaker 2>make ourselves more vital. But yeah, it's I feel I

1:08:27.120 --> 1:08:29.560
<v Speaker 2>would prefer to I almost feel like I'd prefer to

1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:31.920
<v Speaker 2>own our business than one of those other ones, because

1:08:31.920 --> 1:08:33.160
<v Speaker 2>it's like, where do you go from there? How do

1:08:33.160 --> 1:08:35.200
<v Speaker 2>you go to subscription model and be like sort of

1:08:35.240 --> 1:08:37.680
<v Speaker 2>words and photos? I know, and that's sort of a

1:08:37.760 --> 1:08:40.400
<v Speaker 2>hubristic thing to say, but I just wouldn't know how

1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:44.240
<v Speaker 2>to chart that a path forward for those businesses.

1:08:44.439 --> 1:08:46.840
<v Speaker 1>And what's the visual I I get wound up here,

1:08:46.840 --> 1:08:52.200
<v Speaker 1>but what's the future of surfing? What is the future surfing?

1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Just on the in globally, I mean, as it reached

1:08:55.960 --> 1:08:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a Zenethlake as highest point because there's all the competitions.

1:09:00.000 --> 1:09:02.160
<v Speaker 1>It's sort of like a bit like it's a little

1:09:02.160 --> 1:09:04.880
<v Speaker 1>bit like cricket, Like you know, there's so many fucking competitions.

1:09:06.320 --> 1:09:08.720
<v Speaker 1>I just can't keep up. And what happens I stop

1:09:08.800 --> 1:09:10.920
<v Speaker 1>following cricket as a result of it. During the crickets

1:09:10.960 --> 1:09:13.280
<v Speaker 1>is during the summer period, so many things going on.

1:09:13.680 --> 1:09:16.920
<v Speaker 1>There's just too much and it gets diluted. Yes, it's

1:09:16.960 --> 1:09:18.400
<v Speaker 1>surfing in a similar spot.

1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, we have the WSL, which are those twelve major

1:09:22.439 --> 1:09:24.200
<v Speaker 2>events a year, and then have the other events around those,

1:09:24.280 --> 1:09:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the sort of ones that lead up to those. But

1:09:26.680 --> 1:09:28.719
<v Speaker 2>they just got such a big field, and just like cricket,

1:09:28.760 --> 1:09:30.320
<v Speaker 2>it takes a long time to go through the game,

1:09:30.479 --> 1:09:32.479
<v Speaker 2>surfing takes long time to get through the whole field.

1:09:32.800 --> 1:09:37.120
<v Speaker 2>And surfing entertainment, whether you're run surf contests or create

1:09:37.160 --> 1:09:39.960
<v Speaker 2>content like us or Morning You Earth, you're only as

1:09:39.960 --> 1:09:43.120
<v Speaker 2>good as the wave quality. And it's just not with

1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:48.320
<v Speaker 2>mother nature. You can't physically have good waves for four

1:09:48.400 --> 1:09:50.799
<v Speaker 2>or five days out of twelve, just so rarely happens.

1:09:50.960 --> 1:09:53.720
<v Speaker 2>It actually can happen, but it's very very rare. And

1:09:53.760 --> 1:09:56.679
<v Speaker 2>so while you've got these big fields of the women

1:09:56.720 --> 1:09:58.600
<v Speaker 2>have a smaller field, but the men have such a

1:09:58.680 --> 1:10:02.000
<v Speaker 2>large field. You're just going to have some boring things

1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:04.080
<v Speaker 2>to watch and you don't know what it's on. If

1:10:04.120 --> 1:10:05.880
<v Speaker 2>you knew that surfing was going to start at four

1:10:05.920 --> 1:10:07.600
<v Speaker 2>o'clock on a Saturday and it was the eight to

1:10:07.600 --> 1:10:10.639
<v Speaker 2>twelve foot pipeline, it would be as compelling as any

1:10:10.640 --> 1:10:14.040
<v Speaker 2>other sport. But you just win tides.

1:10:14.120 --> 1:10:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, see it's too many, too many uncontrolled variables.

1:10:20.360 --> 1:10:22.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we can't like, we can't be consistent. Yeah, we

1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:24.439
<v Speaker 2>can't have a barbecue and watch a game, watch the

1:10:24.479 --> 1:10:26.960
<v Speaker 2>surfing at four o'clock on a Saturday. Yeah, it's just

1:10:27.000 --> 1:10:29.120
<v Speaker 2>not a chance. And then we're in Europe. I think

1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it's going to start, Then the tides are wrong and

1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:34.639
<v Speaker 2>so it starts at midnight, and so you have to.

1:10:34.560 --> 1:10:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Be an actual die hard, be prepared to fucking wait. Yes,

1:10:38.040 --> 1:10:39.839
<v Speaker 1>and that's it's a bit like not like the UFC.

1:10:40.280 --> 1:10:41.920
<v Speaker 1>So the UFC is going to be on Saturday after

1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:43.519
<v Speaker 1>at one o'clock, and you know it's going to be

1:10:43.560 --> 1:10:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Volcanosi versus blah, and you know what you're in for exactly.

1:10:47.400 --> 1:10:50.519
<v Speaker 1>It's much more control. So that's why. Yeah, it's not

1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:52.240
<v Speaker 1>going to be the same not that it's definitely not

1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:52.920
<v Speaker 1>the same product.

1:10:53.320 --> 1:10:55.200
<v Speaker 2>No, And you just really have no idea what you're

1:10:55.240 --> 1:10:57.160
<v Speaker 2>going to get. Yeah, and when it all comes together,

1:10:57.680 --> 1:10:59.920
<v Speaker 2>it's incredible. It might be as exciting as that as

1:11:00.120 --> 1:11:02.840
<v Speaker 2>those matches. Yeah, but the nine percent of the time

1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:03.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not, Yeah.

1:11:03.400 --> 1:11:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Because it doesn't all come together. Yes, and it sort

1:11:05.760 --> 1:11:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of can be I don't want to say it because

1:11:06.960 --> 1:11:09.840
<v Speaker 1>sort of boring. Boring but underwhelming.

1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just sort of background noise.

1:11:11.960 --> 1:11:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, So where to for me? What's what's

1:11:14.600 --> 1:11:15.520
<v Speaker 1>what's next?

1:11:16.160 --> 1:11:17.960
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna do more of our events in wave pools.

1:11:18.640 --> 1:11:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Wave pools much more predictable.

1:11:20.160 --> 1:11:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're more predictable. You start at four o'clock on

1:11:21.920 --> 1:11:25.960
<v Speaker 2>a Saturday. Yeah, And we're just trying to do more documentaries,

1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:30.800
<v Speaker 2>more of those deeper storytelling things like the were like

1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:34.040
<v Speaker 2>the one you talked about, the Surfboard one, and yeah,

1:11:34.160 --> 1:11:37.240
<v Speaker 2>just follow that way, kind of grow our subscriber base,

1:11:37.760 --> 1:11:40.760
<v Speaker 2>run more events, keep having fun with.

1:11:40.680 --> 1:11:42.120
<v Speaker 1>That and how much time you spend Australia.

1:11:42.160 --> 1:11:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Now I'm here most of the year. I did actually

1:11:45.800 --> 1:11:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I did a two months stint. Well, yeah, two months

1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:50.479
<v Speaker 2>into three months in the US. I just was in

1:11:50.520 --> 1:11:52.000
<v Speaker 2>the US last week for a week, so I kind

1:11:52.000 --> 1:11:53.599
<v Speaker 2>of do maybe a third of the year there.

1:11:54.000 --> 1:11:56.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you give and do you live in Byron.

1:11:57.000 --> 1:12:00.120
<v Speaker 1>Did you go back down to your folks if he's

1:12:00.120 --> 1:12:02.400
<v Speaker 1>still an am Gary, Yeah, yeah, did spend much time

1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:03.920
<v Speaker 1>down there, Yeah, quite a lot.

1:12:03.920 --> 1:12:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Actually, yeah, it's good to get back down there and

1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:09.200
<v Speaker 2>seeing them. And there's just there's quite good surf. Actually

1:12:09.200 --> 1:12:10.639
<v Speaker 2>there's a terrible surf there.

1:12:11.280 --> 1:12:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Now, no, no, no, sorry, yeah, yeah, there's been. There's been.

1:12:15.360 --> 1:12:16.639
<v Speaker 1>I was up there last week. A lot of swell

1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:19.280
<v Speaker 1>around them. Like in fact, I went to meet Ginge

1:12:19.400 --> 1:12:21.840
<v Speaker 1>for breakfast and I turned on he was standing there

1:12:21.840 --> 1:12:23.439
<v Speaker 1>with his shirt off, was like seven o'clock in the morning,

1:12:23.439 --> 1:12:25.080
<v Speaker 1>seven thirty more to be just coming from a surf,

1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:28.400
<v Speaker 1>looking magnificent. Ginge as usual, but in the middle of

1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:31.280
<v Speaker 1>the in the middle of the cafe. But he just

1:12:31.320 --> 1:12:33.160
<v Speaker 1>come back from a surf. He said, it was pretty good.

1:12:33.320 --> 1:12:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been a good run. Autumn is always the

1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:35.840
<v Speaker 2>best time.

1:12:35.880 --> 1:12:38.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, well same, thanks very much. That was great.

1:12:38.960 --> 1:12:40.920
<v Speaker 1>And I actually when I got to Byron, ext I'll

1:12:40.960 --> 1:12:43.080
<v Speaker 1>look you up. Yeah, good sceneing you mate.

1:12:43.120 --> 1:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Hey, really nice to meet you. Thanks for having me,

1:12:44.840 --> 1:12:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Sam mean, I appreciate it.