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Speaker 1: Hi, my Boris, and this is straight Talk.

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Speaker 2: If we don't get a million views in the first

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Speaker 2: seven days, it'll be free. We dropped it and hit

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Speaker 2: a million views in six hours or something.

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Speaker 1: See macatosh Well into straight Talk, mate, Like they're actually

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Speaker 1: unreal ideas. How do you think of this shit?

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Speaker 2: Like all those things you don't think they're going to work,

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Speaker 2: You work through it, you work out how to do it,

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Speaker 2: and then when it comes together, the feeling's extraordinary. The

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Speaker 2: gold standard of storytelling is telling me something I don't know,

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Speaker 2: and it's sort of like show me something you haven't seen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we're trying to do.

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Speaker 2: My dad didn't want me to work in magazines. He

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Speaker 2: knew what I was making. He's like, you got to

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Speaker 2: get out of this thing. But I just loved making

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Speaker 2: the magazines. I love putting together the stories.

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Speaker 1: Who's the craziest out of all of them?

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Speaker 2: Out of all the stuff I deal with? Oh my god, I've.

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Speaker 1: Seen macatosh Well into straight Talk mate. Morning, nice to

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Speaker 1: meet Thanks for coming down to Byron. Byron, you're living

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Speaker 1: in Barron.

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Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I haven't been that long, but I was

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Speaker 2: in Sydney for a long time and then in l

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Speaker 2: A for a couple of years, and now that's we're

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Speaker 2: going to office in Byron and we're going to office

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Speaker 2: in California as well.

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Speaker 1: So you grew up though in uh and Gariel? Is

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Speaker 1: he Garry? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, your dad owns pub there? Yeah? Which which

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Speaker 1: one is it? Isn't he? Amber?

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Speaker 2: Pacific? Go tell the Hill?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? School one? Yeah, he still owns it. Yeah, okay, cool?

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Speaker 1: Robert Craig Robinson Yeah really well here good made? And

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Speaker 1: mine brother, well is he's still living? He's at Yamber,

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Speaker 1: isn't he? And Garry?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So he spends the weeks on the Gold Coast

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Speaker 2: because his kids go too, and then comes down on

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Speaker 2: the weekends.

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Speaker 1: His kids go tome to school again just what gin

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Speaker 1: send his boy dead there? He's close to Robert and

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Speaker 1: but Robot is one of the older boys, like killing

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Speaker 1: it at cool. He might be his last year or

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Speaker 1: something like he's really bright.

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Speaker 2: Super smart's yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Great, I haven't seen roll with Ages, Great Maid of

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Speaker 1: mon Salo if you see, right. So grew up obviously,

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Speaker 1: not I should say obviously, but I grew up as

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Speaker 1: a board writer. Yes, in the we're talking about now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so grew up well, yeah, just before we get

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Speaker 2: into it, though, I went through your analytics to look

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Speaker 2: at what does well for you, and you've got these

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Speaker 2: colorful characters that connected really well, and then anything you

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Speaker 2: do on surfing tanks. So I'm like, I'm super interested

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Speaker 2: to see what have you seen that. I was talking

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Speaker 2: to the boys about it. I was like, really, you

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Speaker 2: guys want to do anything on surfing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe our audience is not that interested. Yeah, but if

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Speaker 1: you're throw in a few names like Mick Fanning and

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Speaker 1: some of that, something might change.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So I'm going to turn it around.

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Speaker 1: Okay, You're going to turn this whole thing around. Said,

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Speaker 1: this dude is smart and by the way, I've seen

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Speaker 1: some of the stunts you've done. So I'm really relying

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Speaker 1: on you, okay to turn the stats around. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: at no pressure, but let's do it, okay, Okay, So hey,

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Speaker 1: just take me when you grow up. What period?

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Speaker 2: So I grew up in the nineties in Yambongari. So

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Speaker 2: we grew so we actually used to live inland. We

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Speaker 2: used to live sort of forty five minutes to an

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Speaker 2: hour from the beach and grew up in a town

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Speaker 2: called Casino. My dad was a shy clerk at the

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Speaker 2: council and he always wanted buy a pub and I

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Speaker 2: was so obsessed at that point, and he looked at

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Speaker 2: a bunch of pubs. We went to northern Queensland, so

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Speaker 2: we nearly bought one in Air, which is I don't know,

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Speaker 2: a day from the beach. If you're driving south down

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Speaker 2: to News.

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Speaker 1: It's no beach across across because Reece.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we did a trip to Cape York

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Speaker 2: a couple years ago, my dad, my son and I

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Speaker 2: and we caught it to the pub and he's like,

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Speaker 2: your mother walked into this pub, she walked back out,

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Speaker 2: laid in the backseat with a migraine and she didn't

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Speaker 2: get out of the car. So thankfully we didn't buy

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Speaker 2: that one. And then all we wanted to do. His

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Speaker 2: dream pub was Pacific Hotel in Yamba, and then a

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Speaker 2: couple of guys from Byron they all got they all

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Speaker 2: went in together and they bought it. And so we

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Speaker 2: moved from Inland down to Yamba, which was just life changing.

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Speaker 1: A bit different than that is to what it is now.

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Speaker 1: It's still it's still a smallish town. But back then

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Speaker 1: it's quite remote relatively speaking. It was really a serving

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Speaker 1: town and.

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Speaker 2: Like a little resort town. So it's busy in the holidays.

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Speaker 2: Fish town yeah yeah, yeah, still very small. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then what does that do for a kid growing

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Speaker 1: up in the environment? So how do you come out

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Speaker 1: of the place like that? Because nag Off was in

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Speaker 1: la So like, how does I mean, what's what did

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Speaker 1: it do in a formative sense for someone like you?

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Speaker 2: That's an interesting one. Well, for a formative sense. There's

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Speaker 2: a on the front of the public says pecific hotel

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Speaker 2: in big ladders on the front. And so I had

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Speaker 2: a bedroom above the.

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Speaker 1: Ah you lived in the hotel.

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Speaker 2: We lived in the park. Yeah, so we lived above

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Speaker 2: the We lived cool.

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Speaker 1: That's cool. I reckon that school.

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Speaker 2: But it was really fun growing up for the pub,

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Speaker 2: and then my dad had me go to work in

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Speaker 2: it pretty early, so I was balancing the tills and

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Speaker 2: learning about how to run the business. So that was

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Speaker 2: really helpful. And then he was just always pushing me

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Speaker 2: that we had to go to university, get out of

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Speaker 2: a small town. So the moment you turn eighteen, you

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Speaker 2: get out of there. So did that move to Sydney

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Speaker 2: moved under Jeff and Penny Carr's house at Okay.

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Speaker 1: Cool, but how's how's Jeff? How's Curry related? What's his

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Speaker 1: friendship with it? Had they come about?

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Speaker 2: They went to school together in Grafton.

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Speaker 1: I really I didn't know Jeff is from Grafton. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a country boy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay. By the way, those who don't know, Geff Card

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Speaker 1: played for George and a longtime administrator in the New

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Speaker 1: South Wales Rugby League. And I know Jeff through the

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Speaker 1: state of origin where I sponsored for one though ten

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Speaker 1: years or something. And of course I knew Penny, his

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Speaker 1: late wife Penny quite well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of people.

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Speaker 1: So your dad sent you down to deliver the Jeff

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Speaker 1: at Tama.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jeff offered, and then they had this little this

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Speaker 2: sort of like little granny flat under the house in

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Speaker 2: twn Royment. So I got to move to here.

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Speaker 1: Is that that's late must be late late nineties. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's when I was sponsoring New South Wales. Jeff

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Speaker 1: used to walk all the time from I don't know

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Speaker 1: if he still does. He was always every time I

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Speaker 1: ever seen he's walking from along the coast there along

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Speaker 1: to Bondai.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and back. Yeah, and he's when I was living there.

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Speaker 2: Scott's big birthday present for him because he played football

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Speaker 2: big legs. Yeah, his son bought him basoline so he

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Speaker 2: wouldn't get a rash between his side. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was such a good Yeah, it was the perfect

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Speaker 2: way to come to Sydney. It was like a wonderland

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Speaker 2: for me. I was like, wow, I look at his place.

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Speaker 1: What did you do at Uni?

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Speaker 2: I studied a few different things, and I studied business

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Speaker 2: and then I didn't get through that degree and got

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Speaker 2: a job at the surf magazine called Waves. So that

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Speaker 2: was out of Chinatown. In Chinatown, yeah, that's where the

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Speaker 2: office world. So it was the big British publisher called

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Speaker 2: EMAP and they had Fahm and Smash Hits and Tracks,

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Speaker 2: Waves and a whole bunch of magazines and a bunch

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Speaker 2: of sort of teenagers and twenty year olds running them.

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Speaker 2: Was it was really really fun.

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Speaker 1: Did you gather as a journalist or admin or what

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Speaker 1: we're doing?

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Speaker 2: I just went in as a deputy editor. I didn't

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Speaker 2: study writing or anything. I'm not a great writer, but

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Speaker 2: from there I kind of learned. I learned what I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do in life, and I loved it. I

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Speaker 2: just loved making the magazines. I love putting together stories,

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Speaker 2: and it was Waves was always the little brother to Tracks.

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Speaker 2: Tracks was the sort of the cash cow, and Waves like,

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Speaker 2: you stay in the corner, you get anyone trying to

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Speaker 2: get in the youth market. And so I worked with

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Speaker 2: the guy called Vaughan Blakey, and we had a lot

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Speaker 2: of success with the magazine. Brought a lot, and that's

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Speaker 2: when I realized that I was sort of not that

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Speaker 2: great of an employee, and I had to go out

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Speaker 2: of my own.

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Speaker 1: You're not great at being an employee.

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Speaker 2: And not great at being employee?

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Speaker 1: What would it where? And how do you mean? Like

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Speaker 1: do you don't like taking orders?

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Speaker 2: Or I was like soot. So I grew up learning

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Speaker 2: how to read a balance sheet and a pno because

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Speaker 2: my dad taught me at the pub. And so when

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Speaker 2: these young guys, and to their credit, they're really transparent

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Speaker 2: with the numbers, and I could see tracks of make

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Speaker 2: movie Box a year and then our magazine Ways would

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Speaker 2: make between two and four hundred, and we're having all

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Speaker 2: the success. So we'd go, oh, because I was on

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Speaker 2: twenty five grand a year or something, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to get a raise the magazine through really well,

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Speaker 2: they said, the sales team's amazing at the moment, and

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Speaker 2: they're getting amazing advertising, and then newsstand sales are really good,

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Speaker 2: and like, oh the marketing they're doing an incredible job.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, Okay, this is how this is

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Speaker 2: going to work. So I kind of realized I needed

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Speaker 2: to get out because I just I wanted My dad

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Speaker 2: didn't want me to work in magazines. He knew what

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Speaker 2: I was making, just like, you got to get out

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Speaker 2: of this thing, like this is this is kind of

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Speaker 2: like a really fun, kind of dead end job for you.

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Speaker 2: That's what we thought. And so I was really good

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Speaker 2: friends with a surfer named Tajborrow yep, and he was

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Speaker 2: sort of the best surfer in the world at that point.

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Speaker 2: And growing up there was no really good instructional how

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Speaker 2: to surf books and so true yeah, and so I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, we're going to make a really good

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Speaker 2: contemporary how to surf book. So I pitched him the

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Speaker 2: idea and he said, okay, I'm in. We went, let's

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Speaker 2: do fifty to fifty on it. And so I started

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Speaker 2: writing in nights and at nights and on the weekends

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Speaker 2: and working away and working away on it, and I

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Speaker 2: was getting close to the end, and then the publishers

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Speaker 2: found out that I had this book, and like they

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Speaker 2: pulled me aside and said, hey, everything you do we

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Speaker 2: own and I was like, well, no, I'm doing the weekends.

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Speaker 2: He goes, no, if you're doing your surfbook, we own that.

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Speaker 1: How does the people you're working for?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, well you don't and a

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Speaker 2: you don't be You're not having it, and so we

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Speaker 2: both sort of saved face. I got the sack, but

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Speaker 2: I got a job in marketing. So I got a

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Speaker 2: job in marketing and I went from the editorial floor

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Speaker 2: that was really fun to the corporate floor and I

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Speaker 2: spent the next six months in there learning everything I

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Speaker 2: could about publishing. So distributors printers made all of those

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Speaker 2: contacts and finished this book, and I got really lucky.

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Speaker 2: I went to I found a really good printer in Singapore.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have any money at the time, and my

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Speaker 2: email came through from me the EMAP email, and so

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Speaker 2: I got ninety dight terms.

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Speaker 1: Wow, because they thought they thought EMAP was the one

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Speaker 1: asking for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I use this printers for fifteen years after

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Speaker 2: I'd started STAB, and every bill I'd get it would

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Speaker 2: be like Sam Macintosh's Care of EMAP STAB. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: we always paid our bills. And so I made this book.

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Speaker 2: I was like, how am I going to pay for it?

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Speaker 2: And so I rode for the Sunglass Company. I sort

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Speaker 2: of surfed, okay, and you wrote for the Sunglass Company

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Speaker 2: Onnett remember those?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And so I used to get fifteen hundred dollars a

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Speaker 2: year a spoonship, yeah, a sponsorship and personally personally yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then this one day they accidentally put extra zero.

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Speaker 2: They pay him fifteen thousand. So I had to pay

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Speaker 2: for these eight thousand books two dollars eighty seven apiece.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, I'm going to dump this

248
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Speaker 2: on the print run. And I got ninety days to

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Speaker 2: pay down the other stuff, and then I had to

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Speaker 2: pay back to it. And so I got this book

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Speaker 2: out and I self publish it because I couldn't get

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Speaker 2: a publisher because I didn't have any runs on the board.

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Speaker 2: And one day my dad calls me, reads the Son

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Speaker 2: Herald and goes, you're in the best sellers list. Oh wow, Yeah,

255
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Speaker 2: And so he's in the Sporting section, the best sellers list,

256
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Speaker 2: and the book just flew flew in the US, flew

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Speaker 2: in Australia, and it was life changing. And then from there,

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Speaker 2: what was a book called. It was called Taj Borrow's

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Speaker 2: Book of Hot Surfing.

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Speaker 1: They put Tar Borrows then on the top. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he was a co author that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I was just a bunch of interviews and then

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Speaker 2: all the basic stuff. I'm not you interviewing him, yeah, yep, right,

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Speaker 2: and just anecdotal stuff. And then all I served, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so I could write most of it. And then I'd

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Speaker 2: done so much so many interviews with him. I kind

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Speaker 2: of got his.

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Speaker 1: Tone right, and so I nearly write his answers pretty.

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Speaker 2: Much, and then I just kind of go the technique

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Speaker 2: stuff I'd write, and then I just get anecdotes from

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Speaker 2: him about certain examples of where things took place and yeah,

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Speaker 2: and so.

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Speaker 1: But that was quite clever. Quite a clever technique is

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Speaker 1: to use the Taj Borrows in the in the title.

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Speaker 1: And given his status at the time, even today he's

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Speaker 1: still got status. But like his status at the time,

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Speaker 1: and as you say, would have been one of the

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Speaker 1: first books ever. There's books on everything in those season,

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Speaker 1: but I don't remember seeing anything else surfing.

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Speaker 2: Just the one in a really contemporary way. And at

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Speaker 2: the start he was like, I don't want to go

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Speaker 2: out and stand up in the white water on a

283
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Speaker 2: soft top. I'm just just trust me. And so it

284
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Speaker 2: was really broad, but then went really really pointed at

285
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Speaker 2: the end, and so it was like you kind of

286
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Speaker 2: had to had to go through the sections and see

287
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Speaker 2: unless you kind of got through in this section, you

288
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Speaker 2: couldn't go to the next color. And then a whole

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Speaker 2: generation of pro surfers, we later learned, wouldn't go to

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Speaker 2: the next page until they made each trick as they

291
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Speaker 2: went just pretty cool, a younger pro surface younger, yeah, younger.

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Speaker 1: So you're really trying to appeal to as a good

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Speaker 1: Christmas present for parents to give you the kids too,

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Speaker 1: especially like you know, those little kids run a little

295
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Speaker 1: soft boards, like I'll get to the board, I'll get

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Speaker 1: to the book, especially up in coastal towns or even

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Speaker 1: in Bondai in places like because the kids, I don't

298
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Speaker 1: know if they still do it, but they're all writing

299
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Speaker 1: those you know, a little six foot soft boards, you know,

300
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Speaker 1: because you get sort of right on the edge of

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Speaker 1: the flags. Yeah, like it was more access and sort

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Speaker 1: of like appeared much more safe.

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Speaker 2: It's so much safer that just like the softer rails. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: when a hard rail hits you, you can knock your own.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and parents like because I got I remember I

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Speaker 1: brought up with my kids. I was way too clumsy

307
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Speaker 1: and did rother But like, but you know, they're fun,

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Speaker 1: but so so what you're appealing to. I might ask

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Speaker 1: you what what did did you actually sit there and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: who am I baling to? Who am I buyers of

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Speaker 1: the book?

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Speaker 2: I did? I just I didn't want to leave out

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Speaker 2: any cohort, And I thought, if you have all the

314
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Speaker 2: advanced stuff, but then you have Tarj Borrow teaching you

315
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Speaker 2: how to paddle on the front end. If it's Tarsborrow,

316
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 2: you get what you kind of got cloud cover to

317
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Speaker 2: pull anything off. So we dumbed it right down in

318
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,440
Speaker 2: the basic end, and then at the other end it

319
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Speaker 2: was the most technical surfing you could possibly do.

320
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so were you but you actually sort of telling

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Speaker 1: the kids how to paddle.

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Speaker 2: Out, how to paddle out, how to duck dive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: How to be a good house guest just like it was.

325
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Speaker 2: There were a few there's a bunch of other things

326
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Speaker 2: that weren't just surfing. They were sort of surfing related,

327
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 2: sort of surfing adjacent and yeah, the interestingly, so Tarj

328
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Speaker 2: had just signed a huge contract with Billibong and so

329
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Speaker 2: we hit them up to sponsor and they said no, no,

330
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Speaker 2: we don't want to be part of it. So he

331
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Speaker 2: had to shoe sponsor Globe. So Globe got behind the book,

332
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Speaker 2: and then the book came out and it was a

333
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Speaker 2: runaway success.

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Speaker 1: How do you even? Globe got behind the books?

335
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Speaker 2: So they sponsored the book.

336
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Speaker 1: And how do you I've never seen that before. How

337
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,000
Speaker 1: do you sponsor a book? How does that work?

338
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Speaker 2: We just put a logo on the front and then

339
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 2: the inside front cover was a big glow about optage, right,

340
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,480
Speaker 2: and then the whole bottom of the book was like

341
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Speaker 2: a little flick book of like one perfect way of

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Speaker 2: Taj had written. I just had this like spinning glow

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Speaker 2: blogo in there and it's cool. Yeah, it was really cool.

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Speaker 2: And then bill a Bong were bumed they weren't a

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Speaker 2: part of it, and they said, we want to be

346
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Speaker 2: part of the next print run. I said, we can't

347
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Speaker 2: it's you turned the deal down and then they said, well,

348
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Speaker 2: we want to do a book as well, and so

349
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Speaker 2: they did a thirty anniversary book for Billabong, which we

350
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Speaker 2: made for those guys, and then we.

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Speaker 1: You got that they commissioned you to do it.

352
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we made that book for No, not Tage.

353
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Speaker 2: I had a partner on it. We made it together,

354
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Speaker 2: and then we use the money from that to start STAB.

355
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Speaker 1: Okay, so can you see, sayly, how old were you

356
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Speaker 1: when you did.

357
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Speaker 2: This book twenty four And the biggest gift was I

358
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Speaker 2: couldn't get a publisher because I learned how to do it.

359
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 1: And then because you've had a publisher that would have

360
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: owned you and you had just got like a bit

361
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 1: of a royalty yea.

362
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Speaker 2: And books are entoriously shitty business.

363
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Speaker 1: So yeah, I've done for them. There's no money in them.

364
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Speaker 1: That's why I always, I mean generally speaking, I always

365
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,400
Speaker 1: hapy to give the money to charity because like it's

366
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: it's modest, but like at the same time, I feel

367
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 1: as though, like, yeah, there's no reason to do it,

368
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Speaker 1: and I think if I can at least give some

369
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Speaker 1: money to charity, there's a reason to do it. Otherwise

370
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 1: there's no money. There's no reason to do it money wise, Yeah,

371
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,040
Speaker 1: there's no don't it what's the royalty look like? Well,

372
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 1: you know it might be fifty grand or right, it

373
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Speaker 1: might be a hundred. You know, if you get a

374
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 1: couple of reprints, might be a hundred.

375
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

376
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Speaker 1: So like generally speaking, you can't. I can't. I the

377
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: last book I did, I only did it during cover

378
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: because I was bored. But but I think like a

379
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: fifty five grand all of them to charity, because like

380
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done it otherwise I was bored. So

381
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: I did it. But I had to find a reason

382
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 1: to do it. On Bord would do it. That's my reason.

383
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: And there's no money in it, so I'll give it

384
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: a bit if charity make some money out of it them,

385
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 1: I'm happy Otherwise using publisher them talking about and no

386
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Speaker 1: I'm not having a great the publisher. They're great people

387
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 1: and that sort of stuff.

388
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 2: It's just it's a low margin game. Yeah, yeah, and

389
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 2: especially today, do you get do you get a psychic

390
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 2: reward from it?

391
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,879
Speaker 1: Though for that particular book I did Rise, I enjoyed

392
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 1: that one, and I think the one I did before that,

393
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,040
Speaker 1: straight talk a straight talk What It Takes. It was cool.

394
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 1: Sorry that the book was called What It Takes. I

395
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,360
Speaker 1: did an audiobook too, so I was happy. I got

396
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,679
Speaker 1: a bit of a bit of a buzz out of

397
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: doing an audio book myself. I'll never do it again

398
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 1: because I had to own studios for like thirty six hours,

399
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,920
Speaker 1: not not once. Like the best I could talk for

400
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 1: was three hours at a time, so I had to

401
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 1: do twelve sessions.

402
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,160
Speaker 2: But you still have to do work of writing it first.

403
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 1: You had to write first. Then I had to do

404
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 1: the audio. I had to read and I had to

405
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 1: read it out aloud what I'd written literally eighty months before,

406
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 1: and I started finding things and that I didn't agree

407
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,679
Speaker 1: with it, like we're no longer elevant. But I had

408
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: to read it as it was written because it was

409
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 1: an audiobook, so I had to read it, like, you know, oh,

410
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,919
Speaker 1: so your thoughts have evolved? Did I say that? The

411
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,439
Speaker 1: guy say, now you have to read it. You have

412
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 1: to read it as you wrote it. And it's fine.

413
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:13,959
Speaker 2: SI.

414
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: I needed that because that was good what I go

415
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 1: out That was like the experience of doing it reading

416
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 1: an audiobook myself in my own voice. But when you

417
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 1: read what you wrote what you write, which is what

418
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 1: you see, compared to what you say and what someone hears.

419
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,680
Speaker 1: It's they're completely different.

420
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 2: Because you almost have to use the storytelling about two

421
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 2: hundred percent totally.

422
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not the same. It's not the same experience,

423
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,239
Speaker 1: and so it was good for the experience the rest

424
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:41,959
Speaker 1: of it. I didn't make any money out of it, though, well,

425
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,439
Speaker 1: the money I made went to track. But so, what

426
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 1: did you learn from writing? What did you learn not

427
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 1: before the book? What did you learn from the whole

428
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 1: book exercise like that maybe equipped you to go then

429
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 1: and do stab. So what did you get out of it?

430
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 1: What are the things that you got out of it?

431
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 2: I just love putting altogether. That's the thing. I was like, okay,

432
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 2: putting together the whole deal, selling the sponsorship, getting Tarj

433
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 2: on board, writing it, bringing all together. We'd walk into

434
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 2: bookstores and these huge cutouts of Taj on the front

435
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 2: holding your surfboard, and just all those little things. I

436
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 2: just love the because anything you do right, you go

437
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 2: and do something with the major talent, you think that's

438
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,119
Speaker 2: easy to get those people, every single person has to

439
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 2: be onboarded one by one, and so I just realized

440
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 2: that I liked pulling things together and making sure that

441
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 2: the economics work, making sure you've got some of the

442
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 2: audience likes something the talent likes. I just love that

443
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 2: part of it.

444
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 1: So and I guess for the posts of this show,

445
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,359
Speaker 1: like economics is probably not where I want to go

446
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: because Okay, but I personally love the economics. I love

447
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:50,679
Speaker 1: the fact that you make money out of it. But

448
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,479
Speaker 1: for the purpose of this show, I think was really

449
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: like what I'm getting from you, because I've done a

450
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 1: little bit of looking at some of the stuff you've

451
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 1: done on YouTube and Instagram various. I thinks I think

452
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: it might be being slightly modest when you say, like,

453
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, I like putting it together, being able to

454
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: just in a position to identify day one some of

455
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: like taj borrows and by the way, this just goes

456
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: through the future of what you've done, especially with a

457
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: stab and all some of the stunts you've done. My

458
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: gut feeling is your real talent or the talent that

459
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: you've used. It's really amazing you're successful in things that

460
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: you're doing. Is your ability to market, your ability to

461
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: come up with cool stuff that shit everybody wants to

462
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,920
Speaker 1: have to look at like the shaping competition stab in

463
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: the Dark. Yeah, and you know I nearly did today.

464
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: I fucking forgot. I got a T shirt at home

465
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: and it says Insula Marris. It's really really old T

466
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: shirt and it's actually this year fifty year anniversary of

467
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 1: this T shirt made of mine who lives up in

468
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: Balana now. His name is Steve White White and who

469
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: and I in fifteen we set up a shape board

470
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: shaping business called Insula Marus Island of the Sea. And

471
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 1: the reason I know we called an Instina marks because

472
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: I was doing Latin at school. Stupid is subject in

473
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: the world. But I did it and HC and so

474
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: I said, called instament. We shade boards, and we sued

475
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: to sell them ourselves and we sell them to blakes

476
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 1: we knew. And I actually had the two shirt on

477
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: this morning because I put on some because it's right

478
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: around now is the fiftiethh versa. I pulled out of

479
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: the drawer and so coincidentally, I'm going to meet you today,

480
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: So you know, it was just a coincidence. But and

481
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: I was, and I was going to bring it in

482
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: and show it to you, and I was going to

483
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: get your sign actually, but it was, and you know

484
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: board shaping, especially when you know you ran the you

485
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: know the I call it a stunt, but very successful one,

486
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: very successful. And there the other stunt that that I

487
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 1: want to talk about a minute, but the one where

488
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 1: you get that floating mat and they jump off the

489
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: mat and onto the board. That's so fucking cool visually, yes,

490
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: So where what where does where do those unreal ideas

491
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: come from? Like like they're actually unreal ideas. It's how

492
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: do you think of this ship?

493
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: Well, it's like anything so some of the parts right,

494
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 2: So it's not just me, but there's just well, so

495
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 2: we've done a couple of these things. So we did

496
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: one with a guy. We put just a flare the

497
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: flea you have when you're in trouble at sea on

498
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 2: the on the back of the surfboard, just put it

499
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: through the leash plug and then surfed at night. I

500
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: don't know where you saw that one. So it's like

501
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 2: surfing at night with his curfac called Bruce Irons. It's

502
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: all lit up and red in the tube. And that

503
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 2: that was our sort of big, first, big viral shoot,

504
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: and we got into those viral shoots for a long time.

505
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: And then the one you're referencing the one the dock,

506
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: the big floating dock. Yes. So I was living in

507
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: la and one of my really good friends he lives

508
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 2: over there as well. He's from Newcastle and he's the

509
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: skipper on James Packers boats. So is his name Chris

510
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: Chris Tom Tom Yeah, And I was say like, hey,

511
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 2: we've got this idea. Is they probably got a mat Yeah,

512
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: And they're just so forensic on detail, those guys, right,

513
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: the boat guys, And I'm sloppy. He's super organized. And

514
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 2: so he went to work on this thing for six months.

515
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 2: He found the company in Canada because it's just it's

516
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 2: just a floating pontoons. And he said, and because it's

517
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: I don't know what they ever saw it's used for.

518
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: The one use we saw was in a sort of

519
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: It was when people come off boats and there's a

520
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: tiny bit of swell. As people walking down, you see

521
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 2: a tiny little wave run under it, And well that

522
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: could work in the ocean. And if we just anchor

523
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: that off a boat, we can have guys run along

524
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 2: and then jump under the wave and ride the wave.

525
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: And so they.

526
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: Run along with the board and under the under their arm.

527
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and really difficult to do because you can't tell.

528
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: But it sits about a foot out of the water.

529
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 2: So and it's as that thick as it. Yeah, it's

530
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: really thick, and it's really hard. So it's unforgiving, especially

531
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 2: when you kind of got the ocean and a significant

532
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: swell coming at you. But he did all the work

533
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: on it, and so he's like, oh, can I have

534
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: two grand to buy this special rope? And then it

535
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: built the sort of the infrastructures required to attach it

536
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: to a boat. And then because when a wave hits

537
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: it, it has so much power and the things one hundred

538
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: feet long.

539
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: That long is it? Yeah?

540
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 2: Wow, we probably didn't need to make that long, but

541
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: that's you know, it's like you get that many cubes

542
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: you put them together. Yeah. So we shot that in

543
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: Bali and we launched a Banoa harbor. It took us

544
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: We got there at four in the morning. It took

545
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 2: us four and a half hours to go down the

546
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: coast to get to where we need to go. And

547
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: then we got there. The surfaces we went there with

548
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: we just there were waves down the beach and we

549
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: were just out of the back and they were just

550
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 2: ignoring us. And it was really frustrating for a time,

551
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: and then like all those things, you don't think they're

552
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 2: going to work, and it's just the kind of trials

553
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: and tribulations you work through it, you work out how

554
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: to do it, and then when it comes together, the

555
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: feeling is extraordinary.

556
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: But again you're being pretty modest, Like it's, as you said,

557
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: some of the parts, but the idea, like the very

558
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 1: very concept and the fact that you thought you might

559
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: be able to put it together. I mean, do you

560
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: remember where you were sitting or what you were doing

561
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: when you come up with just let's talk about the

562
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: floating mat or the mat that floats on top. Where

563
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: were you? It's just and why did you do it? Like?

564
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: What was the purpose?

565
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: We kind of went into this this stunt space because

566
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 2: it was it kind of became a part of our

567
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: DNA and we really try to do these things that

568
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: hadn't been done before.

569
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: But did someone Richard Brandson spy Like that's brand's a

570
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: big thing, stunts Virgin Virgin. But he built Virgin's brand

571
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: by doing stunts, crazy shit like you know, driving a

572
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: tank down the middle of forever, you know, like really

573
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: crazy shit stuff that most of us wouldn't think I

574
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: just wouldn't think about like did you get inspired by

575
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: someone like him?

576
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 2: We used there used to be this website called it

577
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: was called jown. It was like all these it was

578
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 2: like four j's and O U N D jown And

579
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 2: we used to scroll that thing and used to have

580
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: just weird images and we try to get inspiration from

581
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: this thing. So the the Flare shoot one was just

582
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: from McCarney west film clip a little kid runing along

583
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: with a flare, so like we could put that on surfboard.

584
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: But did you see that on jown?

585
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: That one wasn't on jown.

586
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: No, So you're seeing when you see the candy of

587
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: West video, what's how do you trains translate that from

588
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: looking at VID and go fuck, I could do that

589
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: putting on a bank of surfboard.

590
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: That's everything we do is sort of bringing it from

591
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: outside surfing into surfing. So like the surfboard, when you

592
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: talk about the Stab in the dark, it's kind of

593
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 2: the master chef of surfboards. Yeah, it's no difference. I

594
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 2: don't know, Australian idol of surfboards.

595
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

596
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of like there's always an appropriation of

597
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: bringing to surfing so that's how kind of tackled it.

598
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, so the doc one, someone said we should

599
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: do that and get stand up paddle boards and see

600
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: if you can run and jump, and like then we'd

601
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: seen that clip of that one floating with the tourist

602
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: running down up falling over, and we're like, okay, let's

603
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: join those two ideas together. And then a lot of

604
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: ideas we do aren't that great. Like we went to

605
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: what we thought would be really cool. We went to

606
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 2: Indonesia and we thought, what if we put a thousand

607
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 2: ping pong balls and someone's standing at tube and it's

608
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: ping pong balls all around around the tube. You're serving

609
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: in the tube serving job, and there's just all ping

610
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: pong balls around it like an art installation that we tried.

611
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: It was a failure, and then we spent entire day

612
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: cleaning up the ping pong balls after it didn't work.

613
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: Because then, so the because the stuff I love of

614
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: it is like the ones that work anyway is one

615
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: coming up with the idea. And I guess what you're

616
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: saying is like you sort of sitting around and you

617
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: sort of collab with your mates, like you you're all

618
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: smoking a bomb or what's going on? Like, I mean,

619
00:27:59,000 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: where this shit come from?

620
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 2: Here?

621
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: There is a nighttime or white.

622
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: That friend doesn't drink anymore. Actually, yeah, we.

623
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: Were just talking, just young blokes haveing it.

624
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just talked to a friend. I said,

625
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: do you think this is possible? This floating doc one?

626
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: And everything we do we try to find a sponsor

627
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: to fund it. So the DOC one, I have a

628
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: bit another business parner also named Tom, and we really

629
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: wanted to pitch it to a brand called Volcom. I

630
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: pitched it twice and they didn't get it. And I said, Tom,

631
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: we've got to do this idea. It's going to be

632
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: really really big. And he's like, just read the room.

633
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: They're not interested. I said, give me one last shot

634
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: at it. He's like, just dianet. And so we go

635
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: to this meeting and I said, I think the deal

636
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: was sixty or ninety year the US. I don't know

637
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: what the number was, but one of those numbers. And

638
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: I said to them, if you don't, if we don't

639
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: get a million views in the first seven days to Volcom,

640
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: to Volcom, it'll be free.

641
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: You're not going to charge them. In other words, they

642
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: can be this wants for nothing.

643
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, and you won't have to pay And they

644
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: looked at me like, what do you mean. I was like,

645
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm so confident about this idea. I think this is

646
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: the best idea.

647
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: Of ever, so there's no downside farm yeah, and.

648
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: They were you serious? I said, yeah, I think this

649
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: is really big.

650
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: And they're like, okay, it's a no brainer.

651
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we dropped it and hit a million

652
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: views in six hours or something and it just caught

653
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: on fire. And interestingly, did you ask him for a double?

654
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: If you forget double, if you're too because you have

655
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: two million now I got two million in a day something?

656
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: Did pay double or they still just gave you the sixty?

657
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just got whatever it was. We're just happy

658
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 2: that it did well and it connected and they backed us.

659
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: But interestingly, we got so much. The accolades we got

660
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: from that were incredible. But you show up at Monday

661
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: Monday morning the next week, go to work and your

662
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: business is still It doesn't help your business at all.

663
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: It's not like you have this cash just coming through

664
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: the door. And that was the last one of like, hey,

665
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: no more of these big viral shoots. It's because it's

666
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: not a business model. It's really nice to get a

667
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: spike like that, but then how long do you have

668
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: the next one? And it's you can't build a business

669
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: from it.

670
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: That's as interesting. So I'm glad you raise that because

671
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, like I, what was

672
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: the driver of let's call it the stunts. But the

673
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: driver of the stunts was that I will do this

674
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: stunt because I reckon I can get welcome to a sponsorship.

675
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: Was in other words, I will design a stunt so

676
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: that I can get some sponsorship from somebody, hopefully covers

677
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: my costs, and make some money out of it. Or

678
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: was the driver of the idea I want to do

679
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: this no matter what, but I need I make in

680
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: order to make work, I need to get a sponsor.

681
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: Was it about getting sponsor first? It was about I

682
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: just need to get this thing done.

683
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: It's kind of yes to both. Yeah. Yeah, it's well,

684
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: we would like anything. We were. We're the last to

685
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: market in terms of magazines, up up against all the

686
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: big players draw MESSTAB now, yeah, so we just wanted

687
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: to come in and have a point of difference, and

688
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: so we wanted out. We wanted to the look and

689
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: feel it to be completely different.

690
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: So how did you elaborate they had to fit into

691
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: these things like so like, for example, the let's talk

692
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: of the mat, how do STAB fit into that relative

693
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: to say the sponsor so brought to you buyo.

694
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's just the Volcan logo at the front.

695
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: And then all the surfers who are running off the dock,

696
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: they're all sponsored by Vulcan. They've got Volcan stickers on

697
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: their boards and volcum on their clothing. And then though

698
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: and Volcan can run all of those assets on in

699
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: perpetuity across all of their channels. So you run on

700
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: their website, posters, billboards, whatever turned outs how a deal works.

701
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: But how did how did STAB get a benefit of that?

702
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: How did the magazine get the benefit from that?

703
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: So the magazine would have the photos, we'd run that

704
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 2: in print and then we'd put the film online and

705
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: then all of those.

706
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: Assets would just content. Yeah, more content.

707
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we just wanted to when you we just

708
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: wanted to a point of difference. So everything we try to

709
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: do would be the gold standard of storytelling is tell

710
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: me something I don't know and sort of like show

711
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: me something you haven't seen. Yeah, So that's what we're

712
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: trying to do.

713
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it really does come into storytelling, yes, And

714
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: so when did you learn like you learned? I mean

715
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: you worked your dad's baab. You you learn how to

716
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: look at the difference between money coming in and money going out.

717
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: Then you worked at the magazine. Then you went upstairs

718
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: and you started looking learn about the corporate stoff. But

719
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: where did you get into your head it's about storytel

720
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: because you're in your twenties, how did you understand the

721
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: storytelling is such an important part of running a business,

722
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: especially a new business in a competitive environment.

723
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I actually connected the dots back then.

724
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: I sort of knew what we wanted to do and

725
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: how we're trying to do it, and we're trying to

726
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: be world class and try to create these big moments,

727
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: and I knew that like a big name and a

728
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: big idea, that's what connects.

729
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, two basic fundamentals. Yeah, but no more articulated, not sophisticated.

730
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: Now I kind of truly know what connects in storytelling,

731
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: but it's takes me a long time.

732
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: So what would you say connects and storytelling from your successes,

733
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: what are the sort of main elements I.

734
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: Think just storytelling. What I want is tell me something

735
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, really yeah, and me something yeah yeah

736
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: yeah uh. And I think if you if you can

737
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: kind of whatever lane, your whatever space you're in, if

738
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: you can be the expert sort of authoritating voice in

739
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: that in that space, I think it gives you a

740
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: good chance of success.

741
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: How important is though, is the theater of it though

742
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: at one the theater, but also prankishness, some amend it's like,

743
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, having fun with it.

744
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you can call it a prank or a gimmick,

745
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: or you can call it art. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah,

746
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: I think that's important. I think you need to have

747
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: that high production value, Like I think that really connects

748
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: with an audience. If you put if you kind of

749
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: go and make.

750
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: The you mean your actual production that's well put together.

751
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well put together. And it's like that doc video

752
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: it was a complete shit show. But I think when

753
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: you watch it looks really slick.

754
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah it does.

755
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it some but that's all is that in

756
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: the edit? Yeah, that's all in the edit. Yeah. But yeah,

757
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: I think when it comes out it needs to have

758
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 2: that level of quality.

759
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: It's a bit like this, this show I mean to

760
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: be honest, like you know, like I don't know what

761
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: sort of material I give our editors, but like they

762
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: always make it look fantastic.

763
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: You know, you had the show up mentality. Yeah, I've

764
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: been listening a lot, and you just show.

765
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: Up totally and then they make it all look good.

766
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: And then what they'll do is say someone like this,

767
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: for example, they make it interesting because one of the

768
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: reason I'm talking about this stuff because they'll grab drag

769
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: that stuff and they'll put it in somehow, They'll they'll

770
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: bring it into the primos, et cetera. Yes, so that

771
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: and it's a really good vision. So it's about the

772
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: production quality at the end of the day. But I've

773
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: got to give them the production quality. I've got to

774
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: give them an on trade of the production quality through you, right,

775
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: so Pie, Yeah, so, and and I guess that's like

776
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: all storytelling and all theater. A theater is always about

777
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: that stuff. It's about color, light, movement, you know, vibrancy.

778
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: Whether it's a prank or it doesn't really matter, but

779
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: it's it's got to have energy in it. It's got

780
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: to have energy, must have energy in it. And I

781
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: think your stuff's always got energy in it. And I

782
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: don't know whether you thought about that at the time.

783
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: It mind you, when young people do stuff a lot

784
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: of times it's got fucking energy in it, just naturally

785
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: because they take risks.

786
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's there is something about start getting into

787
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 2: business early and taking risks and making ow mistakes early

788
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: when you don't have mortgages of dogs lose. Yeah, it

789
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: really doesn't matter.

790
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: But because I think the audience, if you pull it off,

791
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: they like to see that. They like to see the

792
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: risk taking. Yes, you know, and they because it's generally speaking,

793
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: something that some wouldn't do themselves. And you know, you know,

794
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: like I know everyone in my in this mental mental

795
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: structural business, everyone's under thirty.

796
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen and.

797
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: And I do it on purpose because they will take

798
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: more risks than I would ordinarily even think about it.

799
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: I just have to come sort of be the so

800
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: called talent, with the other talent in this case being you.

801
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: But the rest of us then young.

802
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: People, you don't have to worry about how it shows

803
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: up on you, Sube, by how far shows up in TikTok,

804
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: that's all, yeah, I.

805
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: Mean, just as long as my old So now you're forty,

806
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: what forty forty six. Are you different today to what

807
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: you were when you How different are you to when

808
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: you were in your twenties? You're more aligned to the

809
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: economics of things than you were than you are than

810
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: you were to just getting the thing out and done

811
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: and produced.

812
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: No, I still love the economic site of it is whatever.

813
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: I love the just having really a really good product,

814
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: and no matter what, I'll just always try to go

815
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 2: for the best product.

816
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: So what about risk?

817
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: Then? I love risk. I love it. I love getting

818
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: I love being up against the wall. It's my favorite place.

819
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: Is it because you're best then yeah? Yeah, you need so,

820
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: you need pressure to create something.

821
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. We did a that's that's my favorite place. Actually,

822
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: we did a sort of a big air contest at

823
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: a wavepool in Texas. We do one. We're actually the

824
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: guys are there right now. We're doing one in June

825
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: in Japan. But it goes around in a way pool

826
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 2: and yeah, but the first one we do was in Texas.

827
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: Met this Texan rancher, amazing guy. Very Texans and Australians

828
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: are quite similar actually, and we went to this wavepool

829
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: had this amazing air so he.

830
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: Got his own waypool.

831
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. It was really cool. And the thing

832
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: about surf contest, the thing that makes them so difficult

833
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: is you can't They don't start four o'clock on a Saturday.

834
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 2: They start when mother Nature shows up. So I really

835
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: liked the idea of having these events. But we did

836
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 2: this one. It was like one hundred and twenty grand

837
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: for the pool us. We're talking one hundred grand for broadcast,

838
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: and we just nickeled and died to try to have

839
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: this event. The guy let us pay the day after

840
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: the event, so let us get ticket sales and pay

841
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: per view sales and max out our credit cards on

842
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: the seventy five grand off a friend, and just that.

843
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 2: They're the sort of things that have made STAB what

844
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: it is like. They're just these these moments where like, shit,

845
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: I hope this thing works, and then it turns out

846
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: to be one of the big pillars of what we

847
00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: do now.

848
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: And if I could just go back to STAB now, yeah,

849
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: but I guess we're going back to a period when

850
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: magazines were paper. Was it similar to Tracks, which Tracks

851
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: was like a dirty, old, get fucking printed on your

852
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: finger type magazine. The only two magazines that I remember

853
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: during that period. I'm not stabished so much. I'm talking

854
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: about the seventies when I was, when I was buying

855
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: Tracks magazine, there was there was a glossy surfing magazine

856
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: called Surfing Australia or Australia Surfing or something like that,

857
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: Surfing Life something like that was a glossy but it

858
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: was a bit too it fucking expensive for me. Tracks

859
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: was a bit more affordable. But the two magazines that

860
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: were affordable with were a magazine called Ryebald, which is

861
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: a dirty, filthy magazine, like for young teenagers and young guys,

862
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: you're just looking at chicks and naked and stuff. And

863
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: the other one was Tracks, but it was it was

864
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: sort of like gritty gritty paper, right. It was a

865
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: big It was a big format. The Tracks was both

866
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: originally big format, like did you what format did you

867
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: have when you could stab out?

868
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: Oh, we're just like glossy a yeah, perfect bound with

869
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: the spine, yeah yeah, player and yeah.

870
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah and so like and like proper photographs, proper

871
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: photography involved.

872
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: Very expensive produced market and be very expensive to advertising.

873
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but it worked, Yeah, it worked, it was.

874
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: But for us, success came once we went digital because

875
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: it opened up an international market as opposed to domestic market, right, So.

876
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: But in terms of selling your magazine, just through those days,

877
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: we've been through news agencies, yes, not online, yes, all

878
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: news agents BA. So you had to sort of hustle

879
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: to get your magazine next door to whatever else tracks

880
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: and make sure the right spot and then and then

881
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: so the digital world then came about, and of course

882
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: you can then sort of basically exports your magazine and

883
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: other places. How did you do that? Did you go

884
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: and get pro surfers to be part of the promotion,

885
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: like you sponsor them?

886
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: Interestingly, So I had a guy start working with us,

887
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: a guy named Tom burd So he come from Fairfax.

888
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: He adspace for Fairfax and he came on in the

889
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: GFC here and I was all about print and he's like, hey,

890
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: we need to get on this digital thing. I started

891
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 2: a thing, so oh cool, that's good, but I'm going

892
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: to stick to print. And he said, you're out of

893
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 2: your mind. I said, well, I just think this is

894
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: going to be I think just winning to double down

895
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: on this. And he's and he's doing really well. He'd

896
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: like he'd gone through the contacts form of saying for

897
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: Nike on their website and then Nike wanted our really

898
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: big clients and just really good at what he does

899
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: advertising advertising, well, more like a master of the soft sciences,

900
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: like those guys who are brilliant reading people, real people,

901
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 2: sort of those those people who just people warm too.

902
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: One of those kind of guys always on the client side,

903
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 2: not the stab side, which is really good to have.

904
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 2: Because he was yeah, and he said, well, I'm out,

905
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: and I said, what do you mean. He goes, I'm leaving.

906
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: I said, I want one hundred grand for a website.

907
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: Otherwise I'm out. And I was like, it's just not

908
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: a good time, Tom. He goes, just trust me, I'll

909
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: get this thing paid for. And so he goes, I

910
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: want to gave him one hundred Grund had the website built.

911
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: We put a lot of time into the content and

912
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: kind of made it was sort of rather bean after thought.

913
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: It was a focus for us, put someone full time

914
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 2: on it, and then he paid for the site in

915
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: six weeks and then all of a sudden advertising yeah wow,

916
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: and then it just flew.

917
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: But how did you promote that? Had someone in America?

918
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: How did someone in California find out about your magazine?

919
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: We're never overtly Australian. So we just wanted to sort

920
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: of connect with whoever's world class, world class photographer, surfar cinematographer.

921
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: So it didn't you didn't really know where this thing

922
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: had come from. And so lots of Americans, lots of Brazilians,

923
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: lots of Europeans, and so when we went digital, it

924
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 2: just opened up a whole new market.

925
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: But what are they going to talk about it? So

926
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: like if I'm if I'm sitting in Brazil or wherever,

927
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: and there's got to be a name in there that

928
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: I recognize, or a board or a support shape, or

929
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: there's got to be a break or something that I

930
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: recognize as a Brazilian. Like that's a global thing. What

931
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: worked for your best well pretty much the talent. The talent, yeah, people, Yeah,

932
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: the people. So like for example, like a Philips Alito

933
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: from Brazil, how do you preach approach him?

934
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: It was.

935
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: Do you have to pay him?

936
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: No, we don't. It's getting more and it's the sort

937
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: of with the demise of the surf industry, which we

938
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: probably get to at a point the service aren't on

939
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 2: what they were on. So I don't know whether that

940
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: will last for ever for us where we don't pay talent.

941
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: Because we pay talent, we put and then we put

942
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: them in films. We sell those films. So but for

943
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: the meantime, it's more beneficial for their sponsors to be

944
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: in STAB and getting exposure, right.

945
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, So so the great talent will agree to

946
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: do it because somewhere in there he will sure is

947
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: going to have some of the sponsors stuff written on

948
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: their board.

949
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're incentivized to be to be in there.

950
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: Yes, and so because yeah, that makes sense because their

951
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: game is to appear in as many broadcasts as possible. Yes,

952
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: and in which case you're a broadcaster. Yes, three magazine,

953
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: online magazine, so it's broadcasting, so that makes sense.

954
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we do this Surf through the Year poll.

955
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: If you do well in that, you get you get

956
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 2: bonuses back in the day, if you get a cover,

957
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: you get a ten or twenty grand bonus on stabs.

958
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: So those things, there's different incentives for these guys.

959
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: And do Australian surfers resonate around the world, Yes, as

960
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: well as other countries resonate here. Australian surfers, Yeah, are

961
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: the best of the best. Are they examples at.

962
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: The moment ethan Ewing is extraordinary. Obviously have Steph Gilmore,

963
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: Mick founding John Parkinson, but ethan Ewing is our big

964
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: shot at the world title. He will likely win the

965
00:43:59,120 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 2: world title this year.

966
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: Wow.

967
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

968
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 1: And who's the craziest out of all of them?

969
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: Crazy? Out of all the subjects?

970
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: Deal with?

971
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've I've hung out with the crazies.

972
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: I used to serve with the guys from a River

973
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: a lot. They were crazy. Mark Matthews is crazy. Kobe

974
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: Happenan's crazy, the next generation.

975
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: There's Kobe's living in Balle's where's he living now?

976
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: He's in Bali.

977
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

978
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a guy from the south coast of New

979
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: South Wales, Russ Bierky. He's crazy, probably crazy. I keep

980
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 2: saying we're crazy, but yeah he's.

981
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: What were you around Rodkers period from Bondo?

982
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: No, well I know, but yeah, yeah, yeah, he's he's crazy.

983
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 2: He's a wild one.

984
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: That was at his wedding on now Yeah. Yeah, Actually

985
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: he was going to get married many many many minutes ago.

986
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: No district of his current wife, but and he was

987
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: going to and he's going to get married with my

988
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: farm and Byron. The wedding's going to be there and

989
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: then I remember you me up and said, mate, wedding's off.

990
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: This is like he had he was engaged with God

991
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: on Perth. Yeah, do you remember that. It was a

992
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: fucking disaster. Oh my god. He's a he's a like man,

993
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: he's crazy, but he's a big way surfer and very

994
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: good at like sort of pretty feelers.

995
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: When you're out on the surf and you see like

996
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: a black line coming sort of like comes, it comes up,

997
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 2: it looks like it kind of covers the horizon. You

998
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 2: see these things come in and your natural instinct just

999
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: paddle out. Yeah, and they just see it. They hold

1000
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: they just go in a little bit and it's frightening,

1001
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: like you surely you can't be looking at this. They

1002
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: look They put their head down and get this look

1003
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: in their eye and spin and go. It's so confronting.

1004
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: What do you think then, what's the makeup of these people?

1005
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: Like? Uh, someone like Kobe, I think he's just crazy.

1006
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: And then someone like I don't know whether you know

1007
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 2: if we're going, named Mark Matthews. He is more. He

1008
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: tries to make a formula for fear. So he sits

1009
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 2: there and he's like, look up in his eyelids up

1010
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 2: and just calms down, breathes through his nose and then

1011
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: this chills everything out. And yeah, everyone's different, but yeah,

1012
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: they just have this I don't know whether they fear less,

1013
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: but they just have this appetite for risk. But it's

1014
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: astonishing to watch.

1015
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: But some people would say those guys, for example, some

1016
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: of those guys would say Sam Macintosh, like it's pretty weird,

1017
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: like he has this mad appetite for risk in relation

1018
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: to business or just doing some of the shit that

1019
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: you've done. I mean, do you really actually see this

1020
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: much difference? The techniques are difference different and the platform

1021
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: they work on is different, but the process and the

1022
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: outcome are the same in that we all choose to

1023
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: be to take not all of us, but people take

1024
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 1: Some people choose to take risks in certain areas and

1025
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: are able to manage that risk, that risk taking, all

1026
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: that fear of taking the risk. I mean you do

1027
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: it in business. We're doing a business. Maybe now some

1028
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: more plain sailing, but then you know, back then.

1029
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: I guess it's you'd be the same. There's there's situations

1030
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 2: that you'd be really comfortable in that some people are uncomfortable.

1031
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: And then vice versa.

1032
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: Right, So why why in your case is so you're

1033
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: saying the same thing. So why do you think in

1034
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: your case business risk is not really that bigger risk.

1035
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: It's not it's not a bigger deal. Just like some

1036
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: of these guys serve these huge waves, they alsoay it's

1037
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: no big deal, you know, for anyone else seeing this

1038
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: black wall coming up.

1039
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, there is a sort of there is a correlation,

1040
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: for sure. I like big waves, not to that level,

1041
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: but I really like big surf and there isn't a

1042
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: there isn't adrenaline that comes with it. And so you

1043
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 2: love your you like the adrenaline, Yeah, I love it. Yeah, Yeah,

1044
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: I love getting I love getting hurt in the surf.

1045
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: But when it's not really bad injuries.

1046
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: It's not going to kill you.

1047
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like those ones. Yeah, but it's it's like

1048
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 2: the feeling of going out, getting washed around, getting cut

1049
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: up and blood coming out of you. I just it

1050
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 2: feels I don't know, that's when I feel most life.

1051
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: But what do you think that fucking is?

1052
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: Like?

1053
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: I like it in business too, by the way.

1054
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 2: It's a good.

1055
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: Feeling, right, yeah, I mean like people you say, well,

1056
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: you get in the boxing ring. I actually like getting hit.

1057
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: I mean to give a fuck and I want to

1058
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: does it hurt that doesn't know that much? And now

1059
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you some back, like I enjoy it. Yeah,

1060
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: it's more a little bit. I don't do it these

1061
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: days because you know, you get brain evage. I'm getting

1062
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: older and stuff too, But I used to love its,

1063
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: like just I don't care fucking throw a punch of that, like,

1064
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: go for it. It's a weird destruct Do you think

1065
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: it's a self destruct thing.

1066
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just yeah, there's something about that,

1067
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: the heart wreck coming up, and that it almost gives

1068
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: you this kind of I don't know, sort of kevlar

1069
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: around you or something, and you kind of it's good

1070
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: to just get pushed your elements, like push your limits

1071
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 2: a little bit. I don't know what it is. I

1072
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: can't articulate it, but I do like it.

1073
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: Because you see these people climbing a rock face without

1074
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: any gear on them, leave no ropes and shit, and

1075
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: I thought, every think, what the fuck, Like you're off

1076
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: your head like crazy, like I can just imagine I

1077
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: can imagine my grip losing my grip from fear your

1078
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: strength sort of disappearing and then then you're fucking four.

1079
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: I ask you, such a rush, and I think that's

1080
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: part of it, Like it's the rush. And there's not

1081
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: that many people who do this in their lives, Like

1082
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: would you recommend? Do you reckon? You could have survived,

1083
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: had a good life without having done these things.

1084
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: I don't think I'd be in business, know without the risk,

1085
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. It was and like we've never we've never

1086
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: had any outside money, unstable, any investment from anyone, so

1087
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 2: kind of happened, had to answer to anyone. So you

1088
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: can kind of make irrational bets. And that's what I

1089
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: like about it. And it's you, it's only on you.

1090
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 2: Then you can just it's all about the execution. And

1091
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: then so I do. I do love the irrational bets.

1092
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: So how long would you own stabboard before you sold us?

1093
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: So like you sold stam and you brought it back,

1094
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,240
Speaker 1: but like how long would you own stab for?

1095
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 2: For eleven years? Ten or eleven years? Yeah?

1096
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: And you were how we when you started like twenty

1097
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: twenty five?

1098
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,919
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, twenty five. I sat it thirty five

1099
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: or thirty six? And who'd you sell it? To? Sort

1100
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: it to surf stitch online retailer.

1101
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the retailer.

1102
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they had this big plan to weave content

1103
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: and commerce together, right yeah.

1104
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of like a convergence of the two. Yeah, yeah,

1105
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: sort of use the magazine to promote their own brand

1106
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: as well, and hopefully the magazine makes money. So presume

1107
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: it was profitable when they bought it. Yes, so they

1108
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: bought a profitable business merging into their business. You're going

1109
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: to use this profitable business to build an audience who's

1110
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: who's their audience, were part of the audience who buy

1111
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: stuff from them, and then advertise to that audience as

1112
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: well through the magazine. Yeah, that was a theory.

1113
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the line with the CEOs.

1114
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably what he said to you when he was

1115
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: saying with this were doing. Did you stay on when

1116
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: you sold it?

1117
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: I did? Yeah, so I my shares were investing, so

1118
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: you get to kind of get the chunk and then

1119
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: shares vested, and so part of my dealers. I moved

1120
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 2: to the US. My shares vested early, so I moved

1121
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: to the US.

1122
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: They to open up a store, opened up the business

1123
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: in the US.

1124
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the surf Stitch in the US.

1125
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: No, No, but.

1126
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 2: They had an online retail over there called Swell Right,

1127
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 2: and so I was sort of working on Swell, working

1128
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 2: on stab over there, and then the ceo, Justin Cameron,

1129
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 2: he bailed and then a new CEO came in and

1130
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 2: he didn't like the strategy. That's when we got unloaded.

1131
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: But you brought it back.

1132
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got really lucky. So we tried really hard

1133
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: on the broader business. They are quite a bunch of

1134
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,439
Speaker 2: quite a bunch of different businesses at that point, and

1135
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: a lot of those founders took the cash and pailed,

1136
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: and so when it came to the negotiation a we

1137
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: were then unprofitable. And then so it wasn't that easy

1138
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 2: to sell. Surf industry was sort of instructured. Declient media

1139
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: was obviously in structural decline, so there wasn't a cue

1140
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: of people down the street trying to buy surf media.

1141
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: And then we mean a game for so long we

1142
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 2: kind of knew any potential suitors, my partner and I,

1143
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: and so we started buying the phones, like, hey, if

1144
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 2: this thing gets bundled up and you buy this thing,

1145
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 2: we're not we're not involved to so you know that

1146
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: anything loses money and so.

1147
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: Which means that turn turn them turn them away straight away. Yeah,

1148
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: so you sort of like condition the market a little

1149
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: bit maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it.

1150
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so then then it was we had the

1151
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 2: opportunity to buy it back. But tom my partner was like,

1152
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 2: let's just get this thing done. Let's put a let's

1153
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: put a let's put an offer, and I'm just hold, oh,

1154
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: just relax. We're going to get this thing back. We're

1155
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 2: going to get it back, which is stressful because if

1156
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: you hadn't lost it for a small fee, like a

1157
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 2: small sonomenal sum, would be frustrating. But yeah, it all

1158
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: turned out in the end. It's all turned out well

1159
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 2: in the end.

1160
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: And just just like for my benefit, do you think

1161
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: that's an error of the own or the buyer who

1162
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: became the owner to keep in the business the two founders,

1163
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: because to some extent, whilst you've got paid, you're getting

1164
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: paid tranches, and you had effectively probably a turnout or

1165
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: something like that sitting at the end of it at

1166
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: the purchase price. And as something starts to the demise

1167
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: of something starts to change, the owner says, okay, want unloaded.

1168
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: But the problem is you've got the original founders still there.

1169
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: Even though the original founders don't own the shares, they're

1170
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: still owned the business. I mean, to a large extent,

1171
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: to the to the to the broader public. The broader

1172
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: public thinks, so ship like, these guys have been running

1173
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: it forever they founded it. They've been running it. Now

1174
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: if I buy it and they're not going to be there,

1175
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: what am I buying.

1176
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: Do?

1177
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,439
Speaker 1: That's an error from the buyer dash owner's point of view.

1178
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 2: So so you mean on the person buying it from

1179
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 2: surf stage, Yeah.

1180
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 1: No, person buying it from you have you stay there

1181
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 1: as a founder and then getting in to a position

1182
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: where they wanted to resell it or sell it if

1183
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to be a go alongside it. But

1184
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: having having had you there the whole time basically sort

1185
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: of kept you in that founder position, which means that

1186
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: if you're going to leave, a new buyer is going

1187
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: to say, way on, these guys are going to live

1188
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: there and set it up to a new one down

1189
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: around the corner exactly. Yeah, So it sort of it

1190
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,439
Speaker 1: negatized the value big time.

1191
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It would have been very difficult to sell.

1192
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: Put you in control of it.

1193
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we got really lucky so yeah, we did that.

1194
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: So you conditioned the market and then you were then

1195
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: did you put a consortium together to buy it or

1196
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: did you buy yourselves?

1197
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 2: It was a dollar Australian.

1198
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: Nothing because they were losing money. So basically you would

1199
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: just like stop the bleeding. Yeah, just take it away

1200
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: from us.

1201
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know what it's like. You go into

1202
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 2: a bigger business, You've got to amortize their accounting, their

1203
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 2: rents and everything else. All of a sudden you got

1204
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 2: this stress on the business. We weren't running the way

1205
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: we wanted to run it, and so I was like,

1206
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 2: just let's just cut the bleeding as soon as we can.

1207
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: So what what happened? So just to explain to me

1208
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: what happened in the surfing world contraction of digital media

1209
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: or media generally speaking for surfing, What happened? Where did

1210
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: this contraction come from?

1211
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 2: I don't think surf media was anomally at all. I

1212
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: think it's just in the broader media just it went.

1213
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: I guess Internet, social media, YouTube, all of those those

1214
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: outside forces, those exogenous forces, put a pressure on media.

1215
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: And they are you saying that those other places like Instagram,

1216
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: for example, they took people away from buying the magazine

1217
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: because I'm getting my thrills by looking at something on

1218
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: Instagram for half a minute or whatever it is, reels

1219
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be, TikTok et cetera. So

1220
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: therefore I don't really need to buy the magazine anymore.

1221
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's twofold, so they can get the audience through

1222
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 2: your phone. And then the if you want your you're

1223
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 2: advertising efficient and measure We can't measure the efficiency of

1224
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 2: a magazine or a billboard, or you can, but it's

1225
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: very difficult. You can. Everything is so measurable when you

1226
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 2: do it on the phone, going through Google, Facebook, which

1227
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 2: is Instagram and everything else. So yeah, it was. Yeah,

1228
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 2: they were pretty significant headwinds. And then what's interesting is

1229
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 2: the whole time you're in business, you think you have

1230
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: all these enemies. And for us it was like our

1231
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: surfer is the enemy, surfing magazine Transworld or in Australia's

1232
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: Surfing World and.

1233
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: Tracks surfing wards when I was seeing a bat.

1234
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then those magazines go away, like in America

1235
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: Surfer Surfing, Transworld, they are just crumbled. Yeah, the next

1236
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: day your business isn't any better. Yeah, it's not that

1237
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 2: you kind of realize that never the enemy, the enemy,

1238
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 2: these outside forced the market, Yeah, exactly, which was really interesting.

1239
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: So you went brought it back for a dollar, But like,

1240
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: why did you bother buying it back when you know

1241
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: that there's a contraction? What is it? Because you're just

1242
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: sort of emotionally attached to it or you didn't want

1243
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: to see it die.

1244
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 2: We had a plan for the future. We were kind

1245
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 2: of knew where we wanted to go. We knew, we

1246
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: hoped that we had a Yeah, we kind of had

1247
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: a business model that we thought could endure. And it's

1248
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 2: not like because the challenge with all those other magazines

1249
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: are owned by big publishers, so they couldn't move quickly,

1250
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 2: and it felt like they were in a tanker. We're

1251
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: in a zodiac and we're just zipping around and we

1252
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 2: could we could move really quickly and then we don't

1253
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 2: care about risk. So it was like spend here, spend there,

1254
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 2: don't spend here. But like we're not like we have

1255
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 2: to make this much money this year.

1256
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like your you still have to get advertisers.

1257
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: Was the demise of STAB under the previous ownership before

1258
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: you before you brought it back, was it about not.

1259
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: Was it about having too heavy an expense relative to

1260
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: the revenues because the revenues had contracted because there was

1261
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: too many other places that advertisers could advertisement.

1262
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 2: It's it's a really good question. So the reason it

1263
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: failed on the surf Stitch where they were trying to

1264
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: build their own platform. So say you're from Hurley and

1265
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: we do one hundred grand deal with you at early,

1266
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: and you're trying to drive sales to your early online

1267
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: store because everyone wants direct to consume a better margin.

1268
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 2: Makes perfect sense right now. We were under instruction that

1269
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: if Hurley's been one hundred grand, we had to push

1270
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 2: early traffic back to surf stitch, and.

1271
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: How they hang on a seconding any of issues for that.

1272
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so all of a sudden our advertising diminished

1273
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: because who would do up pretty quick?

1274
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so effectively being competed on.

1275
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And so we became unprofitable really quickly because

1276
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: of that.

1277
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. So under the previous owners that you lost advertisers

1278
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: because the advertising model just didn't work. Yeah, But once

1279
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: you owned it, you don't have serf stitch, you're not

1280
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: trying to redirect traffic. You put it back into an

1281
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: even footing, and.

1282
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 2: Then I got the secret weapon, which is my partner

1283
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 2: who's a complete magician. So I knew we were going to

1284
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: be fine. Do you mean, oh, he's the guy I

1285
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: told you about with the soft science skills. Yeah, he's

1286
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: just he's always in the clade. He build a lot

1287
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 2: of trust here, will work with people. A marketing director

1288
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 2: will go from brand to brand to brand, and he'll

1289
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 2: worked them for ten fifteen years. And every place the

1290
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: new person goes, they call him up, we want to

1291
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: do a deal. And so I knew we had the

1292
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: best chance of success on this advertising model. That was

1293
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 2: until COVID hit.

1294
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: So hawd to go up, until Covid was a mega

1295
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: money Yeah, you reversed it.

1296
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we grew five hundred percent after.

1297
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: I moved to the audience or percent profits well yeah,

1298
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: revenue revenue.

1299
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: By moving to the US. That that was the biggest

1300
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: success we'd had, which was great, and then we kind

1301
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 2: of became a major player. That was sort of we

1302
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 2: went from being at outside in Australia to an international voice.

1303
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: So would that be like one of the biggest magazines

1304
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: today surfing surfing online and serving magazines today?

1305
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, the tallest mid yet yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's

1306
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 2: a small business, but yeah, yeah, but yeah we would

1307
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,479
Speaker 2: be but significant, yeah, yeah, in significant in terms.

1308
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: And what by the way, you mentioned COVID, what happened covid?

1309
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 2: So covid, we just like everyone else, no one you

1310
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: know what the future is going to hold. And then

1311
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 2: we got the calls we're out, we're out, We're out.

1312
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 2: And then that's when we went to a subscription model. Yeah,

1313
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 2: in the December twenty twenty, so monthly fee or an

1314
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: annual fee.

1315
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: And that was the because you know, I could rely

1316
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: upon advertisers.

1317
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, we weren't sure, we wanted we always wanted to

1318
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 2: do it, and it was just like the push that

1319
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 2: we needed and so that was absolutely revolutionary for what's.

1320
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: A monthly subscription? Is it different levels?

1321
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 2: It's monthly I think is talking US dollars sorry, maybe

1322
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: ten or twelve US right a month and then seventy

1323
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 2: or eighty annually.

1324
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're so, yeah, so you get discomfort doing

1325
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: it and paying annually. So your business mode now is

1326
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: people get paid subscription as opposed to you lying so

1327
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: heavily on advertisers. Yes, that's pretty sort of modern, you know,

1328
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: that's the bottom way to do things. You sort of

1329
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: I guess you probably are forced into doing that. Yeah,

1330
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: we did no choice, you had to try it out anyway.

1331
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: But it's so much easier run a business because you

1332
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 2: can just you have a consistency, you have a better

1333
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: eye on cash flow. And then as a flips, I

1334
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: think because you get the vanity metrics of social media.

1335
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 2: So you put up a clip, you might at six

1336
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 2: million views or how many views on YouTube, which is great,

1337
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: but it's not always a business. And that's where the

1338
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: challenge we were in. And I think these surf brands

1339
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 2: that get they have really wild up and down success

1340
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 2: as well. But we're like, hey, we found the people

1341
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: in the world who want to put their credit card

1342
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 2: down for media. They're the ones they're way more chance

1343
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: of converting to being a customer as opposed to just

1344
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: anyone any of you you're getting on the internet.

1345
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, how'd you work at the price? How do you

1346
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: work out how much will someone pay? What's the right

1347
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: subscription price? I mean, did you say, well, Netflix is

1348
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: twenty bucks a month, so it's got to be less

1349
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: than there? And when how did you work get that out?

1350
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 2: We had a guy who was running the premium and

1351
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,959
Speaker 2: he just came up with it. We kind of sounds

1352
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 2: good enough to ask, Yeah, kind of ballpark like it

1353
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 2: was in line in the US with sort of Disney Disney,

1354
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: what is it over there? What have we got here?

1355
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: We've got Binge. They're different, but Disney Netflix, it was

1356
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 2: sort of ball It sits alongside those. But it's really interesting.

1357
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 2: You go and see what Netflix spend on content a year,

1358
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: which is like eight billion or whatever, and wear the

1359
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 2: same price, and we spend say four US on our content.

1360
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 2: So it's just yeah, it's it's interesting.

1361
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: And so given the state of the US at the moment,

1362
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: I remember was heading towards the recession, but it looks

1363
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: like it's come back. It's doing pretty well. Has there

1364
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: been any net effect on your subscriptions post COVID that

1365
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: inflation period, higher rangiust rates both here and in the

1366
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: US or around the world generally, have you seen any

1367
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: change in your subscription base.

1368
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 2: We haven't. We've been lucky. We're still growing. But when

1369
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 2: you opt out, when you churn out, there's the you

1370
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: can sort of say the reason for leaving, and then

1371
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: the highest rate one is affordability.

1372
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Okay, that's what that's And it's not your affordability.

1373
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: It's your affordability in a whole affordability pack like everything

1374
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: else like cost of living, general, general living, like so

1375
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: I've got to cut some costs somewhere. And so do

1376
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: you see yourself then is stab subscription? Do you see

1377
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: yourself more in the surfing world surfing the people who subscribe?

1378
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: Would you consider yourself as a luxury or a necessity?

1379
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 1: I think we're a luxury, But can you build yourself

1380
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: into being a necessity? In other words, we're going to

1381
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: tell you shit that you need to know when it

1382
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: comes to do you put up on your website? Do

1383
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: you have like surfing additions in somewhere in America where

1384
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: every would likes to on surf, like you have like

1385
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: a you know, like the wind and the swell and

1386
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, do you have updates?

1387
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 2: Do you when you talk about those? Like So there's

1388
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 2: surf line, right, which is cameras all around the beaches

1389
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: are all around the world, and surf forecasting that is

1390
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 2: more of a utility. Ours is sort of more on

1391
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: the entertainment side.

1392
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: Right, And we don't have that. You don't have the

1393
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: utility in there because because I was going to ask you,

1394
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: how do you think you can make yourself a necessity

1395
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: as opposed to it, let's call a luxury or a

1396
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: discretionary spend, in other words, non discretionary. I've got a

1397
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: fucking have it. Yeah, it's my drug.

1398
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess the entertainment is the drug. Like,

1399
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: how vital do you can you be to that audience?

1400
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't have the answer to.

1401
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 1: That question because my gap feeling is like the surfing

1402
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: people in the surfing world, they love the drug of entertainment,

1403
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: surfing entertainment and all the ship that goes with it.

1404
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I can still remember going sitting I'm one

1405
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: of them. But because I'm like a, you know, like a,

1406
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: I can get quite addictive. We're addicted. I remember. I

1407
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: can still remember to this very day, and it gives

1408
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: me goose. Sitting in a all up the North Coast

1409
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: on sort of plastic chairs watching Morning of the Earth

1410
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: when it first came out. I can still and I

1411
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: can still remember the soundtrack and the sort of the

1412
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: addiction I had towards that, and I actually bought the

1413
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: little tape. We had a tape deck and we used

1414
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: to play it literally we had three tapes with that

1415
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: and you know, a couple of other a couple of

1416
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: other tapes. You didn't have much money, so but that's

1417
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: what we would listen to listen to it. Like it

1418
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: was like impossible for me to go through a day

1419
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: without having listened to that music, only because I wanted

1420
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: to remember back the vision of the movie. It was

1421
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: fucking uncomfortable, hot and it was shitty, but the movie

1422
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: was just was one of the first. But it was

1423
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: unbelievable for me.

1424
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 2: Film heat unbelievable and.

1425
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. And I would have been if

1426
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: someone had has said to me that, like you can

1427
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,919
Speaker 1: get that high by buying a magazine, and I would

1428
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: have kept doing it because it was a digital back

1429
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: then those days, of course, But can you see you've

1430
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 1: got great vision of these things. Can you see something

1431
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: that your magazine can present to surface and our surface

1432
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 1: is still the same sort of people? Are they still

1433
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: the same?

1434
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 2: I think so generally. I think the one the one

1435
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: advantage we have for being in a smaller kind of space.

1436
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 2: So if you look at say a GQ or an

1437
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 2: Esquire or a Rolling Stone and they get their cover

1438
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 2: star that comes in so they again, Edge Shearan or

1439
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, Bad Bunny or Taylor Swift. They come in,

1440
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 2: they do the shoot, they do the interview, they have

1441
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 2: the lead profile. Really for those businesses to go to

1442
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 2: move to paywall like the way we have, they kind

1443
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 2: of need to make expert documentaries and really authoritive just

1444
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 2: the inside lane, and they're just really where they have

1445
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 2: their domain expertise. The challenge they have is those celebrities

1446
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 2: are such big names in their own right. They're never

1447
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 2: going to do a documentary with Esquire or GQ. They're

1448
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,640
Speaker 2: going to go and do their own deal with HBO

1449
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 2: or Disney or Netflix or one of the big streamers

1450
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 2: for US. Dane Reynolds is an amazing poor Twiggy Baker.

1451
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 2: It's a lot Ferrera. They're huge in our world, but

1452
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 2: they're not huge. They're not big enough for the streaming world.

1453
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 2: Mick Fanning could probably go across the streamers, Bethany Hamilton maybe,

1454
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 2: Kelly maybe. But if we can keep working with these superstars,

1455
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 2: that's about as vital as we can get. And to

1456
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: create those moments where you have to sign up for

1457
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, I don't know whether we can

1458
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 2: create that same chemistry as Morning Girl. I hope we can.

1459
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 2: But I think us surfing being so small is actually

1460
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 2: of benefit to us.

1461
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 1: The talent is so small in terms of there's not

1462
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: it's not Tyler Swift, it's not Tello Swift.

1463
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 2: So say we're in soccer and when to do something

1464
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 2: like messy and those great players do they go and

1465
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 2: do their own deals. But surfing it's really big and broad,

1466
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 2: but it's not really it's not too big, So we

1467
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 2: still have access to those our superstars, and I think

1468
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 2: that's the way that we can get those people and

1469
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 2: make ourselves more vital. But yeah, it's I feel I

1470
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,560
Speaker 2: would prefer to I almost feel like I'd prefer to

1471
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 2: own our business than one of those other ones, because

1472
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 2: it's like, where do you go from there? How do

1473
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: you go to subscription model and be like sort of

1474
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 2: words and photos? I know, and that's sort of a

1475
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 2: hubristic thing to say, but I just wouldn't know how

1476
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: to chart that a path forward for those businesses.

1477
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 1: And what's the visual I I get wound up here,

1478
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: but what's the future of surfing? What is the future surfing?

1479
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: Just on the in globally, I mean, as it reached

1480
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: a Zenethlake as highest point because there's all the competitions.

1481
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: It's sort of like a bit like it's a little

1482
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: bit like cricket, Like you know, there's so many fucking competitions.

1483
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: I just can't keep up. And what happens I stop

1484
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 1: following cricket as a result of it. During the crickets

1485
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: is during the summer period, so many things going on.

1486
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: There's just too much and it gets diluted. Yes, it's

1487
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: surfing in a similar spot.

1488
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 2: Well, we have the WSL, which are those twelve major

1489
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 2: events a year, and then have the other events around those,

1490
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,640
Speaker 2: the sort of ones that lead up to those. But

1491
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,719
Speaker 2: they just got such a big field, and just like cricket,

1492
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 2: it takes a long time to go through the game,

1493
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 2: surfing takes long time to get through the whole field.

1494
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 2: And surfing entertainment, whether you're run surf contests or create

1495
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 2: content like us or Morning You Earth, you're only as

1496
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 2: good as the wave quality. And it's just not with

1497
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 2: mother nature. You can't physically have good waves for four

1498
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:50,799
Speaker 2: or five days out of twelve, just so rarely happens.

1499
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 2: It actually can happen, but it's very very rare. And

1500
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 2: so while you've got these big fields of the women

1501
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 2: have a smaller field, but the men have such a

1502
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 2: large field. You're just going to have some boring things

1503
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 2: to watch and you don't know what it's on. If

1504
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 2: you knew that surfing was going to start at four

1505
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 2: o'clock on a Saturday and it was the eight to

1506
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 2: twelve foot pipeline, it would be as compelling as any

1507
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 2: other sport. But you just win tides.

1508
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, see it's too many, too many uncontrolled variables.

1509
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can't like, we can't be consistent. Yeah, we

1510
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 2: can't have a barbecue and watch a game, watch the

1511
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 2: surfing at four o'clock on a Saturday. Yeah, it's just

1512
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 2: not a chance. And then we're in Europe. I think

1513
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 2: it's going to start, Then the tides are wrong and

1514
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:34,639
Speaker 2: so it starts at midnight, and so you have to.

1515
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: Be an actual die hard, be prepared to fucking wait. Yes,

1516
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,839
Speaker 1: and that's it's a bit like not like the UFC.

1517
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: So the UFC is going to be on Saturday after

1518
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: at one o'clock, and you know it's going to be

1519
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: Volcanosi versus blah, and you know what you're in for exactly.

1520
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: It's much more control. So that's why. Yeah, it's not

1521
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: going to be the same not that it's definitely not

1522
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: the same product.

1523
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: No, And you just really have no idea what you're

1524
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 2: going to get. Yeah, and when it all comes together,

1525
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 2: it's incredible. It might be as exciting as that as

1526
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 2: those matches. Yeah, but the nine percent of the time

1527
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 2: it's not, Yeah.

1528
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 1: Because it doesn't all come together. Yes, and it sort

1529
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 1: of can be I don't want to say it because

1530
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: sort of boring. Boring but underwhelming.

1531
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just sort of background noise.

1532
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, So where to for me? What's what's

1533
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:15,520
Speaker 1: what's next?

1534
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 2: We're gonna do more of our events in wave pools.

1535
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: Wave pools much more predictable.

1536
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're more predictable. You start at four o'clock on

1537
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 2: a Saturday. Yeah, And we're just trying to do more documentaries,

1538
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 2: more of those deeper storytelling things like the were like

1539
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: the one you talked about, the Surfboard one, and yeah,

1540
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 2: just follow that way, kind of grow our subscriber base,

1541
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 2: run more events, keep having fun with.

1542
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: That and how much time you spend Australia.

1543
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,759
Speaker 2: Now I'm here most of the year. I did actually

1544
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 2: I did a two months stint. Well, yeah, two months

1545
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 2: into three months in the US. I just was in

1546
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 2: the US last week for a week, so I kind

1547
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 2: of do maybe a third of the year there.

1548
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you give and do you live in Byron.

1549
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: Did you go back down to your folks if he's

1550
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: still an am Gary, Yeah, yeah, did spend much time

1551
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 1: down there, Yeah, quite a lot.

1552
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,600
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, it's good to get back down there and

1553
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 2: seeing them. And there's just there's quite good surf. Actually

1554
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 2: there's a terrible surf there.

1555
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: Now, no, no, no, sorry, yeah, yeah, there's been. There's been.

1556
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: I was up there last week. A lot of swell

1557
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: around them. Like in fact, I went to meet Ginge

1558
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: for breakfast and I turned on he was standing there

1559
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: with his shirt off, was like seven o'clock in the morning,

1560
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: seven thirty more to be just coming from a surf,

1561
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: looking magnificent. Ginge as usual, but in the middle of

1562
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: the in the middle of the cafe. But he just

1563
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: come back from a surf. He said, it was pretty good.

1564
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a good run. Autumn is always the

1565
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 2: best time.

1566
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, well same, thanks very much. That was great.

1567
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: And I actually when I got to Byron, ext I'll

1568
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: look you up. Yeah, good sceneing you mate.

1569
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 2: Hey, really nice to meet you. Thanks for having me,

1570
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 2: Sam mean, I appreciate it.