WEBVTT - #2042 Understanding Trauma - Scott Douglas

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<v Speaker 1>I've got our term. It's of your project. It's harped.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Scott Douglas, Scotty Douglas, paramedic, man about town, chef,

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<v Speaker 1>exotic dancer, author, poet, creative genius who's been on the

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<v Speaker 1>show before, and he's back.

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<v Speaker 2>High mate, how are you? Thank you very much. You're

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<v Speaker 2>going to make me cry again. Last time you said

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<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of good stuff to me, I cried.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember, well? Yeah, yeah, I do.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean you are that. It's funny like I'm

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<v Speaker 1>one of those people that if I take the piss

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<v Speaker 1>out of you, I like you. You know. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>way that And it's maybe I don't know if that's

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes I generalize and go, oh, that's a bloke thing,

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<v Speaker 1>but clearly it's not all blokes. But I tend to

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<v Speaker 1>make fun of a in a loving way that people,

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<v Speaker 1>or take the piss out of the people that I

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<v Speaker 1>care about. That's that's almost my love language. When someone

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<v Speaker 1>calls me a silly cunt, I just want to cuddle them.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it depends on the context, I guess, but no,

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<v Speaker 1>you're a gun.

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<v Speaker 2>I love talking to.

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<v Speaker 1>You because I love learning from you. I love listening

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<v Speaker 1>to your stories, and you know, I think that, like,

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm listening to a podcast, I want it to

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<v Speaker 1>be organic and real and conversational. I don't want it

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<v Speaker 1>to be some boring, prescripted, fucking monologue. So Scott questioned

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<v Speaker 1>one about tell me about your childhood.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Jesus, that's a If I actually did tell you

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<v Speaker 2>about my childhood, Craig, it would be a lot. It

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<v Speaker 2>would be a series of podcasts, and there would probably

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<v Speaker 2>be a few traumatic events involved. It wouldn't be pleasant. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 2>we might open that door one day.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell everyone why you and I You can throw me

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<v Speaker 1>under the bus. Tell everyone why you and I are

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<v Speaker 1>now doing this for the third time. As if you

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<v Speaker 1>want me to tell you how particular podcast, how inept

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<v Speaker 1>I am.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're talking about the podcast the other day when

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<v Speaker 2>you were talking about no sea bows and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about the fact that you and I recorded

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<v Speaker 1>an hour yesterday. Oh and I didn't fucking push the buttons.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, yes, so yes you did that. We had

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<v Speaker 2>a lovely conversation yesterday, which was great. I was very happy.

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<v Speaker 2>I was nervous at the start we got into it. It

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<v Speaker 2>was really cool. And then invertently, you rang me yesterday

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<v Speaker 2>after said you want the good news or the bad news,

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<v Speaker 2>and you said the podcast was great, but we didn't

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<v Speaker 2>record it. So here we are again Wednesday morning recording.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I'm excited, Well, me too.

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<v Speaker 1>And then we started also ten minutes ago and I

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<v Speaker 1>fucked up. So this is actually the third TEMP. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, so give us something from your childhood, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>let's not do the whole thing you said. If we

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<v Speaker 1>did open the door on your childhood, it could be wow,

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<v Speaker 1>a multi episode ex abganza. Okay, what's something fascinating and

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<v Speaker 1>memorable from your childhood that's going to blow our socks

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<v Speaker 1>off or at least interest us.

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<v Speaker 2>I probably ran away half a dozen times. I used

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<v Speaker 2>to sleep on people's floors from about the age of

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<v Speaker 2>about thirteen to about sixteen or seventeen. Like unfortunately, I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up in a very violent household and my dad

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<v Speaker 2>was like a chronic alcoholic and incredibly violence. So on

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<v Speaker 2>a regular basis, I used to run away, and I like,

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<v Speaker 2>I slipped in the train station and the gentleman in

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<v Speaker 2>the train station was absolutely amazing. He made me cup

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<v Speaker 2>of tea, gave me biscuits to eat and let me

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<v Speaker 2>sleep in the parcel room of the train station because

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<v Speaker 2>that was you could lock it from the train station,

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<v Speaker 2>but when the train would pull up, they could open

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<v Speaker 2>the door to drop off parcels or take parcels out.

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<v Speaker 2>So I slept in there, and I slept on top

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<v Speaker 2>of a whole bunch of warm newspapers that had been delivered.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I was probably about were you when I

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<v Speaker 2>thirteen or fourteen when I did that? And I never

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<v Speaker 2>forget that. Man. I'm actually sorry, I'm getting a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit emotional about it, but that for me, that gentleman

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<v Speaker 2>probably at the time like a complete stranger. He's literally

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<v Speaker 2>a fucking train station dude in a country town. I

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<v Speaker 2>turned up, was sitting on the platform and he said,

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<v Speaker 2>are you going home? And I said no, And he

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<v Speaker 2>asked me where I'd come from and I told him

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<v Speaker 2>and which was really really far away, and I'd basically

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<v Speaker 2>walked to the train station following the train tracks. And

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<v Speaker 2>he literally made me a cup of tea, put me

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<v Speaker 2>inside in a safe place and said I have to

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<v Speaker 2>go home, mate, and he left me there, which I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was an amazing thing to do, like incredibly gracious,

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<v Speaker 2>and he just basically explained what happened in the morning

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<v Speaker 2>of the morning. I just went to school like I

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<v Speaker 2>always went to school, even when I ran away, because

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<v Speaker 2>school was sort of safe and you'd get a feed

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<v Speaker 2>and you could have a shower, clean your clothes, all

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of stuff. So yes, so there you go.

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<v Speaker 2>There's something I absolutely did not think we were going

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<v Speaker 2>to discuss this morning, mister Harper. Congratulations.

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<v Speaker 1>And how did that influence you as an adult? Like,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think that was I mean, obviously that is

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<v Speaker 1>not a good experience in isolation, and just objectively that's

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<v Speaker 1>not a good experience for a child. But how did

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<v Speaker 1>that inform the way that you navigated the world moving forward?

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<v Speaker 1>Was there any resilience from that way? There any awareness

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<v Speaker 1>or like what did that do for you? That experience?

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<v Speaker 2>I honestly think a shape a person who I am.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to think there are times when I am

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<v Speaker 2>a gracious person, like I have no issue picking up hitchhikers,

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<v Speaker 2>I have no problem dealing with the homeless, and obviously

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<v Speaker 2>I would do that on a regular basis, working as

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<v Speaker 2>a paramit, especially in Melbourne. I actually think I became

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<v Speaker 2>the person that I needed when I was that age.

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<v Speaker 2>I really do believe that, and I believe I was

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<v Speaker 2>influenced by a lot of the time the parents of

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<v Speaker 2>my friends who clearly understood that there was an issue

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<v Speaker 2>if on a Wednesday night I was asleep on their

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<v Speaker 2>couch and it's a school night and I'm fourteen years old.

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<v Speaker 2>So again, you know, those are the people that I

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<v Speaker 2>can't thank enough. I have continued to see them and

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<v Speaker 2>thank them and explain to them how powerful it was

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<v Speaker 2>for me to have a safe place to go to,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're aware of that. They you know, I still

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<v Speaker 2>go to some of the I still go and spend

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<v Speaker 2>time with the parents of my friends, and they like

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<v Speaker 2>I go there, and they treat me like one of

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<v Speaker 2>their kids, which is amazing for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I ask you, well, one is your dad's still alive.

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<v Speaker 2>No, he passed away two years ago. He had some

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<v Speaker 2>like a whole bunch of very aggressive cancers. So he

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<v Speaker 2>was a pilot in the Vietnam War. He did two

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<v Speaker 2>tours in Vietnam. He was in nine Squadron. And so

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<v Speaker 2>when we were young, we grew up on Air Force baces.

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean, clearly, as I've gotten older and I

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<v Speaker 2>have a much better understanding of, for example, things like PTSD. Clearly,

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<v Speaker 2>my dad was unwell and he had you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>got four brothers and a sister, you know, like big household,

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<v Speaker 2>small house. He had limited tools and was working very hard.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. So while I'm not trying to excuse his behavior,

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<v Speaker 2>I just have a better understanding of it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think as somebody who's medically qualified. Right, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five. In our understanding of you know, mental

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<v Speaker 1>health and the myriad of variables and factors surrounding very

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<v Speaker 1>mental health, you know, the emotional and the behavioral and

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<v Speaker 1>the physiological stuff. You must look back and think, because

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<v Speaker 1>what was that? That was like, you know, forty years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>years ago? Yeah, yeah, and you must think we we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know, you know, compared to what we know now.

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<v Speaker 1>We knew fuck all them, didn't we? We didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>even I don't know if the term I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how long PTSD as a term or as a diagnosed

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<v Speaker 1>condition has been around, but it would have been in

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<v Speaker 1>the very very old days. They used to say that

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<v Speaker 1>people would come from war shell shops. Yes, yes, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what looking back did was there any awareness or

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<v Speaker 1>understanding about that forty years ago around our dad's behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when I was probably in my mid to late twenties,

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<v Speaker 2>Like the Australian government finally recognized the Vietnam veterans and

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<v Speaker 2>allowed them, for example, to march on Anzac Day, which

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<v Speaker 2>if you think about you think about that just for

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<v Speaker 2>a minute. So these people were not allowed to march

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<v Speaker 2>on Anzac Day. So you know, like I said, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not excusing my father's behavior at all, Like I think

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<v Speaker 2>he was at times a terrible person, but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so he finally gets to march on Anzac Day, which

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<v Speaker 2>he deserves to march on Anzac Day with all these mates,

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<v Speaker 2>and I probably learned more from his mates about him

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<v Speaker 2>than I ever learned about him from him. So we

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<v Speaker 2>would go to these events, which I was very proud

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<v Speaker 2>of what my dad had done. Like he literally volunteered

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<v Speaker 2>twice to go and fly helicopters in Vietnam. Nuts, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And he appears in books. There's a book called Chicken Hawk,

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<v Speaker 2>and he like they talk about him innutes like when

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<v Speaker 2>he passed away, Like like it was in crazy the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of people that came forward and said, yeah, I'd

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<v Speaker 2>serve with your dad. He saved my life, or the

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<v Speaker 2>sons of his people would come forward to me and

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<v Speaker 2>my brothers and say, you know, this is what your

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<v Speaker 2>dad did for my dad. So yes, it wasn't until

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<v Speaker 2>I become a paramedic and I had a much better

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<v Speaker 2>understanding of say, for example, what PTSD was that I

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<v Speaker 2>reflected and went, yeah, lookause much as my dad at

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<v Speaker 2>times a terrible person, he clearly was unwell. He clearly

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<v Speaker 2>was sad, He clearly was struggling as a person, and

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<v Speaker 2>I sort of did feel sorry for him, Like I

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<v Speaker 2>felt really sad that I never got an opportunity to

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<v Speaker 2>speak to him about that. And obviously then for me,

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<v Speaker 2>someone who has PTSD themselves, like it probably would have

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<v Speaker 2>been handy for one of a better word, to at

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<v Speaker 2>least have a conversation with someone about what was going

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<v Speaker 2>to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, Yes, I wonder what your dad would have been

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<v Speaker 1>like if he never went to war. I wonder if

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder what kind of you know, because you go,

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<v Speaker 1>clearly he at times was a terrible person. I wonder

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<v Speaker 1>if he was I wonder if he was a terrible

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<v Speaker 1>person or I wonder if he just demonstrated terrible behavior

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<v Speaker 1>because of the trauma, Like I.

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<v Speaker 2>Love talking to you, Craik, because obviously your questions are

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely amazing and incredibly insightful for for someone who possibly

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't been around those kind of people. But I went

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<v Speaker 2>and saw my dad's mother, and I always got along

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<v Speaker 2>with my nan and Pop. They were always very very

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<v Speaker 2>good to me, very proud of me.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to go there sometimes when I was on

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<v Speaker 2>shift in uniform, and they, you know, they loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>And my Nan said to me that my dad loved

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<v Speaker 2>music and loved dancing, and that he was an artist

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<v Speaker 2>and that he'd won a scholarship to go to Melbourne

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<v Speaker 2>UNI as an artist. And I used to sometimes watch

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<v Speaker 2>my dad draw and paint and to despite his father,

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<v Speaker 2>who also ironically was an Air Force pilot. My dad's

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<v Speaker 2>dad flew Catalinas in Asia, the flying boats. He went

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<v Speaker 2>and joined the Air Force to pieces dad off. So

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<v Speaker 2>he had a scholarship for Melbourne UNI to do art

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<v Speaker 2>and apparently it was an amazing artist and to piece

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<v Speaker 2>his dad off, he went and joined the Air Force.

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<v Speaker 2>Like like fuck, yeah, how different possibly would my life

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<v Speaker 2>be if my dad had gone on to be an

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<v Speaker 2>art teacher or a sign writer or a graphic designer

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<v Speaker 2>when I got older, I would sometimes watch my dad's

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<v Speaker 2>behavior and think to myself, I wish he understood how

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<v Speaker 2>bad he's behaving, but I don't know if he does.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm fascinated with that. Like, it is very easy

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<v Speaker 1>to go And I'm not talking about you or your

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<v Speaker 1>dad necessarily, but broadly, either it's a good person, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a bad person, or he's a preck or she's

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<v Speaker 1>this or she's that, and then which is again, as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, it's not to justify or excuse any bad behavior.

0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:02.760
<v Speaker 1>But like I think about like, the idea of being

0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.400
<v Speaker 1>objective about yourself is ridiculous, right. I can't be objective

0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.440
<v Speaker 1>about me because my entire view of everything about me

0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.840
<v Speaker 1>is completely subjective. Right, So let's put that on the

0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.640
<v Speaker 1>psychological table and be fucking self aware and honest. But

0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.600
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm not a bad person. I think I'm

0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.680
<v Speaker 1>relatively kind and emotionally involved in all of these things

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 1>that I think. By the way, I could be wrong,

0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.600
<v Speaker 1>but that's how I see me. However, if I was

0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.760
<v Speaker 1>putting on my big boy pants and trying to not

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 1>be trapped in ego or fucking self grandization, I reckon

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.120
<v Speaker 1>if I had have gone to war and gone through

0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.360
<v Speaker 1>the shit that your dad went through, or a version

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:49.720
<v Speaker 1>of that, or you know, there's every chance I would

0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>have been, in inverted commas, a prick or a prick

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.439
<v Speaker 1>to be around for people because of my trauma and

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.840
<v Speaker 1>what I'd seen and what I couldn't talk about and

0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:02.679
<v Speaker 1>the psychological and emotional damage that had been done to me.

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not justifying anything. I'm just trying to understand

0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.320
<v Speaker 1>it because we always look at the thing from the

0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:15.200
<v Speaker 1>outside while not actually being in the thing, like we

0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.920
<v Speaker 1>don't you and I, well, you do to an extent,

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:19.400
<v Speaker 1>and I want to talk to you about that. But

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 1>like I'm I feel that my life has gone great,

0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.640
<v Speaker 1>not because I'm great or I deserve it, but just

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 1>because I'm lucky, Like I don't you know, I've worked

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 1>reasonably hard and I've created a few good outcomes, so

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:38.200
<v Speaker 1>that's good. But also, as my friend Vinn says, I

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.439
<v Speaker 1>was kissed on the dick, right, and what that you know,

0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 1>it's like and that's just a very bad expression of

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.760
<v Speaker 1>being very fucking lucky, right, Like I was born lucky.

0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 1>My parents were you know, we had our moments, but

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 1>over all, my parents are fucking great. You know, my

0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.320
<v Speaker 1>schooling was great, my friends were great. I grew up

0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 1>in a safe space, you know, all I didn't. I

0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 1>wasn't sleeping in a fucking train station when I was

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 1>thirteen and fourteen. And so yeah, these things are complicated

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.800
<v Speaker 1>and it's really easy from the outside.

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking about you judging anyone.

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm just talking in general. It's like, yeah, that is

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 1>horrible behavior, but you know that's Stephen Covey quote, and

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 1>lots of other people said it. Also, it's like seek

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.040
<v Speaker 1>first to understand and then to be understood. And with

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 1>things like this, I'm always trying to figure out, like, yes,

0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.080
<v Speaker 1>we can acknowledge that that's bad behavior, or that that's inappropriate,

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 1>or that's fucking heinous, right, whatever it is, wherever it

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 1>is on the behavioral spectrum. But what I'm interested in

0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.720
<v Speaker 1>is trying to understand it, you know. And I guess

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>for you, as an observer of your dad, you must

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:51.520
<v Speaker 1>have some interesting insights.

0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 2>And also, yeah, I guess, like I said, I got

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 2>to meet some of my dad's colleagues. They were amazing people,

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Like one of the guys's got to spend a fair

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 2>bit of time with I don't know if I can

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 2>say his name on air, But he was a tunnel rat.

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if anyone knows what that is. But

0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 2>his role was to go inside the tunnels that the

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Vietnamese soldiers had built and spend time. And he would

0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:22.040
<v Speaker 2>have a torch and a pistol and he has he has,

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I think, been awarded like some serious medals. Yes, to

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.960
<v Speaker 2>spend time with amazing, lovely man like he has children,

0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.320
<v Speaker 2>his children have children. You watch him and he's this beautiful,

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.640
<v Speaker 2>beautiful man and you go, oh my god, why didn't

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 2>my dad turn out like that? Right? Because clearly had

0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 2>very very similar experiences. However, I've also been with him

0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.040
<v Speaker 2>when there is the smallest amount of threat towards him

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.120
<v Speaker 2>or his family, and he is a completely different man.

0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 2>That absolutely frightened the shit out of me.

0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Really, So we're back even though we weren't here folks,

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Sorry we had done. We're having internet issues because Scott

0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 1>lives in Antarctica and there's no signal it does he does.

0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Now we're gonna we're going to soldier on because I

0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>love this chat. So you were talking about your dad, yes, yeah,

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 1>who was just a winner, great bloke as except when

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>there was a threat go on.

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.479
<v Speaker 2>So we're at the service station and he parked his motorcycle,

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 2>he put fuel in it, and he was waiting for

0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 2>the next motorcycle before he moved his Yeah, which effectively

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 2>blocks any car out. But it just means that all

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.320
<v Speaker 2>the bike's going to fill up at once and one

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 2>person pays. Right. Yeah, this gentleman got out of his

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 2>full drive and walked over and started having to go

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>with him. Now, this guy would have been forty and

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 2>the other guy would have been seventy and looks of

0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 2>a small statue. But the just how how he behaved,

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.959
<v Speaker 2>like his body movements and how he moved towards the

0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.760
<v Speaker 2>man and the menace in his voice. I shit myself

0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.639
<v Speaker 2>for the God, not for my friend, really, And I

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 2>spoke to his sons about it, and they told me

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.399
<v Speaker 2>this story, which may be well known. I'm not awhab,

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 2>but one day their dad, quite late at night down

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 2>in Frankston, had pulled into an ATM to get money

0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>and was standing at the ATM waiting to pull hise

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 2>cash out. Two young people come up behind him clearly

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.560
<v Speaker 2>to rob him, and he put both of them in hospital.

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 2>There were young kids in their twenties. He would have

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>been in his seventies. So the police tried to charge

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 2>him and he just said, look at the security camera.

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.159
<v Speaker 2>So I guess I spent a lot of time with

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:55.080
<v Speaker 2>those predominantly men who were lovely to a point, but

0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 2>then you would see them sometimes say and do things

0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.639
<v Speaker 2>where you would have to reflect on their behavior and

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 2>go they have the capacity to harm someone because they

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>have harmed people. They've literally killed people, and they carry

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.040
<v Speaker 2>that with them and I think, sadly it becomes part

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.760
<v Speaker 2>of their DNA and they probably I don't know if

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 2>if it's consciously or subconsciously, have a switch where they go,

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 2>I feel a threat and they put they sadly have

0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:21.199
<v Speaker 2>to put that switch on.

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Can you can you enlighten me a little bit about

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 1>like the Vietnam War and return veterans, Like why were

0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 1>they not allowed to march? Like they were literally sent

0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.760
<v Speaker 1>there by the Australian government. I mean, it wasn't there,

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.880
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't their idea. No, I thin they were sent

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.440
<v Speaker 1>there to fight. They were sent there to go to war.

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 1>They were sent there to whatever you know, to do

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.680
<v Speaker 1>war and all of the things that that involves. So

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.680
<v Speaker 1>what was the why were they not allowed to march.

0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure a lot of my listeners know the answer,

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:00.640
<v Speaker 1>but yes, some in the dark.

0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, the first thing is it was not considered a war,

0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 2>was considered a peacekeeping conflict. So, for example, my dad

0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 2>never got any kind of compensation from the government like

0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.160
<v Speaker 2>so and there will be some of your listeners who

0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 2>understand this. So he didn't get a gold card, say,

0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.920
<v Speaker 2>he didn't become part of Veteran Affairs, but not just him,

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 2>but his whole generation of men that went there. So

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't until maybe twenty years ago that he started

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 2>getting a pension because he was not considered a veteran,

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.920
<v Speaker 2>which is once again not just him but everybody involved

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.200
<v Speaker 2>in that conflict. And my mother, that's what she did.

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.640
<v Speaker 2>She worked for Veteran Affairs and helped my father get

0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.600
<v Speaker 2>a pension and was so successful at it. That's what

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.400
<v Speaker 2>she ended up doing basically for a living in her retirement,

0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:53.920
<v Speaker 2>was getting other veterans, you know, pensions from the government.

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Some men who came back to Australia and then disappeared,

0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 2>like literally went bush because that's where they felt safe.

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I've lived for twenty thirty years without any kind of

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:07.400
<v Speaker 2>compensational like a healthcare card, nothing like that. They would

0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 2>come to my mother and say this is we know

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 2>who you are and we know that you help these people.

0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Can you help me? And so my mum then went

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and worked for veteran Affairs up until she died, getting

0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 2>people pensions or just their legal right what they were

0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:24.360
<v Speaker 2>allowed to have.

0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.439
<v Speaker 1>This is a weird question, but I'm sure the answer

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:36.800
<v Speaker 1>is yes. But is PTSD like on a scale do

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>you think, like obviously there are different levels, Like there's

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 1>like ten out of ten, you know, can't get out

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.960
<v Speaker 1>of it to share? Yes, like you know, colloquially speaking,

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:53.640
<v Speaker 1>fucked like life is terrible, can't operate, can't function if

0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.439
<v Speaker 1>that's ten? Yes, where was your dad and where are

0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:58.360
<v Speaker 1>you on the scale?

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so my dad was a nine, So my dad

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.840
<v Speaker 2>couldn't sit in a room unless you could see the door.

0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:06.399
<v Speaker 2>And lots of my friends a lot that too, And

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I am like that. But there's all this stuff my

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 2>dad categorically could not do and I only understand it

0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 2>as I got older. Once again, Craigy, like your insight

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.640
<v Speaker 2>into this is amazing, right. So, so I have friends

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.560
<v Speaker 2>that literally are on medication, that have spent up to

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 2>eight weeks in therapy or rehab centers. And I have

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.000
<v Speaker 2>been the person that they call when they're allowed to

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.159
<v Speaker 2>have a phone call. And I've been that person multiple times.

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've been prevented from seeing my friends because

0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, their doctors think it's not healthy for them

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.919
<v Speaker 2>to be around someone who is also a paramedic. So

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.000
<v Speaker 2>on a scale of things, like I think I'm incredibly lucky,

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.239
<v Speaker 2>like what you said earlier, Like I don't take any

0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of medication. I have lots of therapy, but I

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>have an understanding of how my brain and my condition works,

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 2>so I purposely go and you know, like this morning,

0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.679
<v Speaker 2>went up to the lake which is probably ten degrees

0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:07.159
<v Speaker 2>and spent ten minutes sitting in the water just to

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.800
<v Speaker 2>get myself cool, literally and just to get myself in

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.479
<v Speaker 2>a place where I felt calm and I could go

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and deal with people. So I think I'm a five,

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.359
<v Speaker 2>But I sadly have mates who can't get out of bed,

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:25.400
<v Speaker 2>who take medication, and you know, because of their career they.

0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Chose Hey, yeah, thank you for sharing that and being

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 1>vulnerable and honest. I wonder I think about the space

0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 1>between treating the underlying problem. I don't know how much

0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 1>we can fix it, of course, let's put an asterisk.

0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 1>But dealing with the underlying problem and medicating the symptoms.

0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Talk to me about the space between, you know, trying

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 1>to alleviate some symptoms for obvious reasons versus trying to

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 1>improve the actual cause of this, like the underlying problem.

0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so the symptoms for me. So once I understood,

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.600
<v Speaker 2>which probably took two or three years of therapy, I

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.840
<v Speaker 2>once I understood that I wasn't a bad person or

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like it took me six years of therapy to literally

0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:20.879
<v Speaker 2>I was driving home once that day and my therapist

0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:22.720
<v Speaker 2>had said to me, you're a good man, like you

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.560
<v Speaker 2>do good things, and she always wanted me to say

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I am a good man out loud, for me six

0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 2>years to do that.

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:29.639
<v Speaker 1>Which is terrible.

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Once I did it, I realized I was And I

0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 2>just had a medical condition the same as diabetes or

0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>you know something or a heart condition where you could possibly,

0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:43.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, using lifestyle choices and medication make it smoother

0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>for yourself. So I wanted to keep working. So there's

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.000
<v Speaker 2>things I could not do. So I couldn't work at

0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:54.399
<v Speaker 2>night because I would fall asleep and I'd have nightmares

0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:57.880
<v Speaker 2>which would inevertially wake up my working partner, and which

0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:01.399
<v Speaker 2>happened sadly multiple times. I would wake up screaming. They

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 2>would run down the hall from their bedroom wake me up,

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:07.720
<v Speaker 2>and I immediately thought I just slept through a page

0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:09.800
<v Speaker 2>or something, so I thought they were coming to get

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 2>me to go get a job, whereas they were coming

0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 2>to get me because I was screaming. So we would

0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 2>then ring the duty manager and say, look, I need

0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 2>half an hour. This is what's happened. And after a

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.920
<v Speaker 2>while you go, well, I probably can't work at night anymore.

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 2>So unfortunately, yeah, so then you can't work at night.

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:32.560
<v Speaker 2>So I put things into place that made it safer

0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 2>for me, you know, and lots of exercise for whatever reason,

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 2>lots of exercise for me is really good. And I understood,

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.080
<v Speaker 2>like I like doing what some people would consider risky

0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.359
<v Speaker 2>things like I like riding my metuscle fast, I like

0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:50.720
<v Speaker 2>going out into big water, but they're calculated risks, Like

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:52.720
<v Speaker 2>I look at what's going on and why I want

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.720
<v Speaker 2>to do those things, and I understand that it gives

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 2>me a thrill. So it gives me the same thrill

0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:02.359
<v Speaker 2>as having an ambulance fast at two o'clock in the morning.

0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 1>So, but what's the you know what is interesting in

0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:10.879
<v Speaker 1>all of this, Right, So what is what does a

0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 1>pill do to a human's body? Well, it changes biochemistry,

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.760
<v Speaker 1>It changes changes what's happening in the brain. Well, what

0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.119
<v Speaker 1>does writing a motorbike do for you and me? It

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.560
<v Speaker 1>changes our biochemistry, it changes it changes what's happening with

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.959
<v Speaker 1>hormone production and kind of hormones and endocrime position, endocrime system.

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 1>It puts you and me like for our listeners who

0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:36.639
<v Speaker 1>don't like motorbikes, totally get it. And this is the

0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:40.480
<v Speaker 1>beauty of this. Like for our listeners who don't like motorbikes,

0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:44.720
<v Speaker 1>it would produce a stress response. Yes, for you and me,

0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:48.600
<v Speaker 1>it literally puts us in a better place mentally, emotionally,

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 1>and physiologically. It actually puts my biochemistry in a better place.

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:57.400
<v Speaker 1>May be a better place than taking the best pill

0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>in the world. Right, And so everything on a level.

0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:06.480
<v Speaker 1>When you've got and then you can extrapolate that physiological

0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:10.560
<v Speaker 1>response to an activity or some kind of external stimulus

0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 1>versus an internal medication, then we start to understand how

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 1>we can manage our physical, mental and emotional health through

0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 1>behaviors rather than and I'm not discounting medicine, of course,

0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>but through behaviors and doing things and having experiences versus

0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 1>popping a pill.

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Once once again, I can't agree with you more, Craig.

0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:35.119
<v Speaker 2>And I've had the privilege of spending time with people

0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:38.840
<v Speaker 2>who have discovered for them that maybe not riding a motorcycle,

0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:43.439
<v Speaker 2>but perhaps writing it. It's like surfing a big wave,

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:47.440
<v Speaker 2>or learning to play music, or any new experience which

0:26:47.480 --> 0:26:51.840
<v Speaker 2>helps rewire their brain, helps them settle. So you know,

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:53.840
<v Speaker 2>I've got mates that have literally got one of my

0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 2>very friends learnt to sew on a selling machine, and

0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:02.200
<v Speaker 2>one of my other mates who's evers twice. Actually, he

0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>said something very very simple to me when he is climbing.

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:11.320
<v Speaker 2>There is no mortgage, there is no kids, there's nothing

0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:14.440
<v Speaker 2>but the climb. There's nothing but the handhold. There's nothing

0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 2>but how your rope is. Like you are. You are

0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 2>in that moment. You can't be unwell. You can't do

0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 2>that and be unwell at the same time. So because

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:24.760
<v Speaker 2>I was explained to him how much I love riding

0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:27.280
<v Speaker 2>fast and my experience at writing at the Isle of Man,

0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:31.159
<v Speaker 2>and he said that's how climbing mountains is for me.

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:33.640
<v Speaker 2>That's my safe place, which is crazy when you think

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 2>about it, right, But I understand more about him, and

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 2>he's an incredibly lovely man. He's one of my favorite

0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 2>people in the world. Like he's a great dad, Like

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 2>he's a good grandfather, Like you watch him. But he, unfortunately,

0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 2>you said, literally kill people for a living. So he

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:50.760
<v Speaker 2>needs a safe place.

0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, yes, And it like what is fascinating with

0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.800
<v Speaker 3>this is and I mean this is true with traditional

0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.920
<v Speaker 3>medication as well, but like the thing that will put

0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:05.119
<v Speaker 3>you in your happy place will put somebody else in

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 3>their anxious place, right, Like it's.

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 1>True, isn't it. And so it's like people go to me,

0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:15.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe you should really try meditation. I'm like,

0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:17.720
<v Speaker 1>fucking meditation. Do you know what meditation? You know, me

0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 1>sitting trying to meditate in the sense that most people

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 1>think about meditation. By the way, is meditation great? The

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:29.439
<v Speaker 1>answer is maybe it's fucking great for some people, but

0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 1>it's not for everyone, you know, just like talk therapy

0:28:32.880 --> 0:28:35.879
<v Speaker 1>is really effective for some people and really ineffective for

0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:41.000
<v Speaker 1>other people. Like this whole notion that, oh Scott, you're

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.200
<v Speaker 1>suffering from this, Therefore you need that or Scott, you

0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 1>have this problem, therefore you need the solution that worked

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:50.360
<v Speaker 1>for me, because the solution that works for Craig could

0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:54.480
<v Speaker 1>actually make Scott's problem worse because Scott is not Craig.

0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:58.200
<v Speaker 1>So this global stupid idea that we have of that

0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:01.680
<v Speaker 1>there is an answer for every you know, like, what's

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the problem, Well, this is the answer. No, the question

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 1>is what's the answer for that individual. How does that

0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 1>individual's physiology interact with that experience or that motorbike ride,

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 1>or that meditation class or that talk therapy, Like it's

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:22.480
<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out what works for that person because literally,

0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:26.600
<v Speaker 1>and you think about I've said this before, but you know,

0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:28.840
<v Speaker 1>somebody can have a handful of nuts and they're having

0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:31.520
<v Speaker 1>a healthy snack. Somebody else is doing the same thing,

0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:34.560
<v Speaker 1>is just putting a death sentence in their mouth because

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:38.000
<v Speaker 1>they'll have an anaphylactic reaction. Yes, and if they do

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 1>that in the wrong place at the wrong time, they're

0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 1>going to die. Somebody else just eats a few nuts

0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:47.000
<v Speaker 1>while they're driving to the gym. Right, it's not about

0:29:47.040 --> 0:29:50.120
<v Speaker 1>the nuts. It's not about the talk therapy, it's not

0:29:50.200 --> 0:29:53.480
<v Speaker 1>about the motorbike ride. It's not about the meditation class.

0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:57.280
<v Speaker 1>It's about how that affects that individual, for better or worse.

0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think, and I'll probably repeat myself. I think

0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:05.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm very lucky because I discovered what some people would

0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 2>consider safe pursuits or a safe place to put my

0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 2>dark energy. So I like swimming, So I would come

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:17.360
<v Speaker 2>off a bad shift and just go and swim. And

0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I'd swim for two k's. I just swim, but rather

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:26.240
<v Speaker 2>than drink because I thought my dub was an alcoholic,

0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 2>I can't drink. But I do need a safe place

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.720
<v Speaker 2>to put my dark energy. Yeah. So sometimes I would

0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>ride my motorcycle too fast, you know, and the you know,

0:30:37.280 --> 0:30:40.720
<v Speaker 2>the ramifications of that are catastrophic, and I've crashed twice.

0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>I've been hospitalized. Yeah, So that is always at the

0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 2>back of my mind when I sometimes get on my

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:51.400
<v Speaker 2>motorcycle and go. You just need to go fast and smooth. Yes,

0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:56.000
<v Speaker 2>And I do think I'm lucky that I don't want

0:30:56.040 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>to take alcohol, or want to take a drug, or

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.360
<v Speaker 2>want to harm myself in some way. I want to

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>do something positive. Now, as you said, some people would go, Yeah, Roddie,

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 2>mostcycle that's not safe, okay, And they might want to

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.480
<v Speaker 2>play golf. I couldn't play golf, mate, Like, I can't

0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.200
<v Speaker 2>see that. I just can't. Like I need it to

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 2>be maybe a little faster and maybe a little riskier.

0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 2>I just and that is because of dopamine and because

0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:27.680
<v Speaker 2>of how it feels when you pull it off, if

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 2>that's if that helps explain it.

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 1>So compared to where you were when you were in

0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:41.640
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the cut and thrust of you know,

0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 1>waking up in the middle of the night and screaming

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and at the cold face of being a paramedic every day,

0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:51.440
<v Speaker 1>like every working day, and dealing with trauma and dealing

0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 1>like being in the middle of accidents that most people

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:59.200
<v Speaker 1>could not cope with, and you know all that stuff.

0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:03.680
<v Speaker 1>How are you you now? Like are you are you

0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 1>more operational? More functional? Do you have a different perspective

0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:10.200
<v Speaker 1>around all of that?

0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes. So I had lunch with one of my closest friends.

0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I've known that young lady for forty years. I had

0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:19.840
<v Speaker 2>lunch with her about three weeks ago, and I sat

0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:23.240
<v Speaker 2>down and she said, oh my god, you look lighter.

0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:25.880
<v Speaker 2>And it was such a beautiful thing to say, and

0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:27.520
<v Speaker 2>it was such a gracious thing to say, and we

0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:31.720
<v Speaker 2>had this whole conversation about where I am today and

0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:34.800
<v Speaker 2>how I feel about myself and that's why you have friends.

0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:38.240
<v Speaker 2>That's why you need good friends, because you know, imagine

0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:39.840
<v Speaker 2>if she had have said, you don't look well. And

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean I left that lunch feeling so full and

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>loved and supported and like I was over the moon.

0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 2>And I said to her, yes, you're right, I do

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:54.720
<v Speaker 2>feel like what you just said. I feel lighter, I

0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:59.000
<v Speaker 2>sleep better. You know, I'm writing more, I play guitar,

0:32:59.160 --> 0:33:00.760
<v Speaker 2>or I have so much more. I'm now to come

0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and have a coffee with Craig Harper, to go and

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:05.560
<v Speaker 2>do listen to music, to go swimming with my daughter,

0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I now think I'm catching up on things, especially

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 2>on seeing friends that I was unable to do before.

0:33:13.720 --> 0:33:16.840
<v Speaker 2>And I'm looking forward to going back to school and

0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:22.280
<v Speaker 2>learning new things. And yeah, it's probably I think I'm

0:33:22.320 --> 0:33:23.360
<v Speaker 2>in a very good place.

0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:29.840
<v Speaker 1>It's yesterday I was talking to a young man who

0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:32.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know well, but I've spoken to him a

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:34.800
<v Speaker 1>few times, and he reached out to me the other day.

0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>His name's should I do this? Yeh? Fuck it? He's

0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 1>a great dude. His name's Will. His name's Will Murray,

0:33:41.120 --> 0:33:44.640
<v Speaker 1>and Will was an up and coming footballer. He almost

0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 1>definitely would have been drafted into the AFL. And he

0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>had an accident. I think he dived into a pool

0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 1>when he was about I'm going to say around fifteen

0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>and became a quadriplegic. Right, And yesterday I met him

0:33:58.920 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>at the cafe and so he's this twenty three year

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 1>old dude in a chair and we're talking about we're

0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:10.640
<v Speaker 1>talking about lots of things, and like, talk about somebody

0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 1>who who has every right to feel sorry for themselves

0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:18.719
<v Speaker 1>but doesn't like I inspired him. Sorry, he inspired me

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:21.719
<v Speaker 1>more than I inspired him yesterday. And Mike, Fuck, you

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:23.279
<v Speaker 1>know when you go away and you go like I'm

0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:25.440
<v Speaker 1>meant to be the guy who does all this, I go,

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 1>I just want to be more like him. I'm like, fuck,

0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:30.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm an amateur at this shit. I want to be

0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:34.360
<v Speaker 1>more like him. But anyway, we're talking about that, and

0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:37.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of digressing a little bit, but that you know,

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.840
<v Speaker 1>when guys are struggling with stuff, or guys are dealing

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:43.120
<v Speaker 1>with hard stuff, and I'm generalizing a little bit, some

0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 1>women are similar to this, But I've tried to explain

0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:52.759
<v Speaker 1>this to various people over time, when like when you're

0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.480
<v Speaker 1>close to somebody, somebody that you care about, or you know,

0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:01.040
<v Speaker 1>like sometimes taking the piss what seems to be inappropriate

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:04.680
<v Speaker 1>is actually the most appropriate. And I was talking to

0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Will yesterday about stuff, and he said, like, while he

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:13.239
<v Speaker 1>understands the sympathy from people, it almost drives him nuts, Like,

0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, because here's a young guy in a wheelchair

0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:20.880
<v Speaker 1>and he really likes it when like his mates take.

0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:22.279
<v Speaker 2>The piss and they treat him.

0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:25.440
<v Speaker 1>And of course he's exactly the same, slightly different situation,

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.359
<v Speaker 1>but he's just a young dude who's got his life

0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:30.759
<v Speaker 1>ahead of him. And I said to him, well, for

0:35:30.800 --> 0:35:32.600
<v Speaker 1>what it's worth, I don't give a fuck about you

0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:34.480
<v Speaker 1>if that makes you feel better, and he laughed his

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:39.759
<v Speaker 1>ass off, right, he said, you know, and just that

0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:44.600
<v Speaker 1>like trying to figure out I don't know, like, you know,

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.920
<v Speaker 1>when people are struggling emotionally and mentally, sometimes I'm like, yeah,

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that leaning in going like sometimes leaning

0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 1>in and going, hey Scott, are you okay? And sometimes

0:35:57.120 --> 0:36:01.240
<v Speaker 1>that's the right thing, but also sometimes having some fun,

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:06.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, bringing some levity, like recognizing what's going on. Yeah, mate,

0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:08.319
<v Speaker 1>you're having a bad day, you're having a bad week,

0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:10.359
<v Speaker 1>having a bad month. I'm here for you, by the way,

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:14.959
<v Speaker 1>like I'm honestly I'm here for you. But for fox sake,

0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:17.560
<v Speaker 1>can you get out of bed your lazy you know, like,

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:20.799
<v Speaker 1>for fuck, come on bright, like you're fucking depressing me,

0:36:21.040 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 1>You're fucking idiot. Let's go and get a coffee or

0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:27.280
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is. I just think that bringing a different energy.

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.800
<v Speaker 1>And I know that's not a standalone solution or a recommendation,

0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:34.919
<v Speaker 1>but like I was looking into him and I'm thinking, yeah,

0:36:35.000 --> 0:36:38.440
<v Speaker 1>what what he needs and what he thrives on is

0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:42.920
<v Speaker 1>when people just talk to him as though there is

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.520
<v Speaker 1>no chair, there is no disability. Just talk to him

0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.359
<v Speaker 1>like a twenty because that's what he is. Like, what

0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:50.920
<v Speaker 1>he is is a young dude with a lot of

0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:54.400
<v Speaker 1>fucking potential and a great attitude. So just talk to

0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:58.080
<v Speaker 1>that person. Don't talk to the disability, don't talk to

0:36:58.120 --> 0:37:01.000
<v Speaker 1>the chair, don't talk to the image, right, you know

0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 1>it's and yeah, I don't know, there's no revelation in

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 1>that for you, but it just kind of struck me.

0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:10.239
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I think there is Craig Like, I had

0:37:10.280 --> 0:37:14.600
<v Speaker 2>the privilege of being a volunteer for the Australian Paralympic team,

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:18.440
<v Speaker 2>and I've got to go to the twenty twelve Paralympics,

0:37:18.480 --> 0:37:20.319
<v Speaker 2>and then I've got to spend lots of time with

0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:25.120
<v Speaker 2>lots of paralympians and yeah, what I learned from them

0:37:25.520 --> 0:37:28.040
<v Speaker 2>is immeasurable, Like how they hang shit on each other

0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:29.279
<v Speaker 2>and you go, oh my god, he just fucking called

0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:34.319
<v Speaker 2>him legless, right, But we sat around a table having

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.040
<v Speaker 2>dinner and it was like having dinner with your mates,

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.319
<v Speaker 2>exactly the same, especially after they won the silver medal.

0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:42.640
<v Speaker 2>The basketballers, like that was a privilege, and they're just

0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:45.799
<v Speaker 2>sitting around talking shit, like hanging shit on their wives,

0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:48.400
<v Speaker 2>just like everybody else does. And then you would go

0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:50.640
<v Speaker 2>to help them, like they would move and you'd go

0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:52.560
<v Speaker 2>to grab the chair, and I remember one guy saying

0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 2>to me, they're going to fucking follow me around because

0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm taking a piece. Unless you're going to follow me

0:37:56.640 --> 0:38:02.600
<v Speaker 2>around everywhere I go, don't help them. Yeah, so yeah, yeah.

0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>One of my best friends is a former paralympian and

0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:08.560
<v Speaker 2>I love spending time with him because if I ever

0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:12.719
<v Speaker 2>start winging, if I ever go fucking hell, mate. Some

0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:16.799
<v Speaker 2>days he just looks at me like serious, Yeah, yeah,

0:38:17.280 --> 0:38:18.760
<v Speaker 2>do you want to have a crack at my life?

0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:19.520
<v Speaker 3>You know?

0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:19.759
<v Speaker 1>So?

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:23.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's levity in those situations. Absolutely.

0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.759
<v Speaker 1>Do you think people can I don't know if this

0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:31.480
<v Speaker 1>is the right word, but you'll figure it out. It's

0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:34.080
<v Speaker 1>not the best question, but it's not it. I'm heading

0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:38.640
<v Speaker 1>in the right direction. Can people overcome trauma? Yes, like

0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:42.600
<v Speaker 1>either fully or partly? Or do we just exist with it?

0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:43.880
<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts?

0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, say, trauma to me is like a passenger in

0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 2>my car. I know if I go somewhere, it's going

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:52.359
<v Speaker 2>to come because I might pull up at a set

0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:57.400
<v Speaker 2>of lights and see nineteen ninety six red Falcon wagon. Yeah,

0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'll go I remember, I remember pulling a per

0:39:00.040 --> 0:39:02.399
<v Speaker 2>and have a car just like that car, And that's

0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:05.520
<v Speaker 2>you can't do anything about that, right, Yeah. Like you

0:39:05.600 --> 0:39:09.080
<v Speaker 2>might go into a house that's your friend's house and

0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:13.120
<v Speaker 2>there's a smell and it's the same smell that reminds

0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:16.160
<v Speaker 2>you of that stabbing that you went to once again,

0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:17.960
<v Speaker 2>you can't it's two o'clock in the afternoon, it's a

0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.440
<v Speaker 2>lovely day. You're going there for a barbecue, and you

0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:24.080
<v Speaker 2>can't do anything about that other than not react. You go,

0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I recognize that smell. I recognize that smell reminds me

0:39:27.880 --> 0:39:30.520
<v Speaker 2>of that stabbing I went to. However, yes, I am

0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:32.799
<v Speaker 2>not at that stabbing. I'm at my friend's house where

0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:34.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm safe and we're going to have a great feed.

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Please continue. So, yes, like I said, I don't know

0:39:39.280 --> 0:39:41.440
<v Speaker 2>how some of my colleagues or some of my former

0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:44.319
<v Speaker 2>colleagues and my mates do that stuff. I just only

0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>know how I do it.

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>And so when you're in the middle of that and

0:39:49.000 --> 0:39:52.960
<v Speaker 1>you recognize the nine ninety six red Falcon wagon all

0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:56.239
<v Speaker 1>the room that has a familiar but undesirable smell, or

0:39:57.040 --> 0:40:02.040
<v Speaker 1>how does that affect you? One to ten, ten being

0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:07.560
<v Speaker 1>crippling and overwhelming, one being extremely minor. How does that

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:10.680
<v Speaker 1>affect you? And does it affect you less now than

0:40:10.719 --> 0:40:11.839
<v Speaker 1>it did five years ago.

0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely affects me less now. But sometimes it does catch

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:21.080
<v Speaker 2>you by surprise, because you'll be like, oh, I'm okay

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:22.920
<v Speaker 2>with the red falcon YEP, I know it's just a

0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:25.520
<v Speaker 2>fucking thing and it'll pass. And I normally look at

0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:26.799
<v Speaker 2>my watch and look at my heart rate, and my

0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>heart rates eighty and I drive off and go yep. Cool. However,

0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:33.919
<v Speaker 2>there are sometimes where someone will mention something and you go,

0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:36.160
<v Speaker 2>oh fuck, yeah, I did deliver a baby by the

0:40:36.160 --> 0:40:38.839
<v Speaker 2>side the road by myself. Yeah fuck, that was heavy. Yeah,

0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:42.480
<v Speaker 2>And you might then reflect on how you traveled after

0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 2>that job. And so sometimes it can be around for

0:40:45.640 --> 0:40:48.640
<v Speaker 2>a couple of days. I have to be honest, like

0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I certainly have had situations where I've become completely uncomfortable.

0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:54.440
<v Speaker 2>I can no longer stay in that situation. I have

0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:57.120
<v Speaker 2>to go somewhere where I feel is safe. And I

0:40:57.160 --> 0:41:00.359
<v Speaker 2>have before turned up at people's houses and just walked

0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:02.480
<v Speaker 2>into their house and got I fucking I'm not good,

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:04.319
<v Speaker 2>and they go, yeah, sure, mate, fucking you know you

0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:06.960
<v Speaker 2>know what spare room is, yeah, and not come out

0:41:06.960 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 2>for two days.

0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:41:08.600 --> 0:41:10.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean I don't do that anymore, which I'm very

0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:13.480
<v Speaker 2>thankful for. But I at the time, I was incredibly

0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:15.920
<v Speaker 2>thankful for the people that accepted me into their houses.

0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 2>So then I feel I have a responsibility when that

0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:21.719
<v Speaker 2>occurs to me. When someone knocks on my door or

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 2>rings me at twenty to eleven at night and you

0:41:24.239 --> 0:41:28.080
<v Speaker 2>know that there's something wrong, I feel.

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:33.000
<v Speaker 1>A dichotomy with the consequences of the potential consequences of

0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 1>trauma and PTSD. I know they intersect, but I feel like,

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:40.880
<v Speaker 1>tell me if this is this is my guest, this

0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:43.399
<v Speaker 1>is my hypothesis. You know, I don't know, so I'm

0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:45.880
<v Speaker 1>just asking a question. But I feel like some people

0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:48.480
<v Speaker 1>can come through that stuff and out the other side.

0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:52.399
<v Speaker 1>They're more shut down, they're more switched off emotionally, they're

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:57.160
<v Speaker 1>they're they're more broken, whatever that means. But maybe for

0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 1>other people, you would come out and because you've been

0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.799
<v Speaker 1>through that, you have a greater level of empathy for

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:06.080
<v Speaker 1>people that are going through that. Like, I feel like

0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:08.800
<v Speaker 1>you would have more empathy and understanding for people going

0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:11.520
<v Speaker 1>through that now because you've been through that.

0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:17.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yes, Like I basically volunteer as a person that

0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:21.440
<v Speaker 2>can be called, which you can always not you can

0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:25.360
<v Speaker 2>always not take the call. But I find myself I'm happy.

0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Happy is the right wather that's actually a bad word,

0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:30.360
<v Speaker 2>but I'm way more comfortable going I know this person's

0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:31.719
<v Speaker 2>going to ring men, I know they're fucked. I've know

0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 2>that had a shit day, And sometimes you get a

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:36.840
<v Speaker 2>briefing on what the job was and say this person

0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:39.799
<v Speaker 2>may have been a former student of yours and they

0:42:39.840 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 2>are three years in the job and they've just gone

0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:43.640
<v Speaker 2>to a terrible job, and they actually want to speak

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:46.080
<v Speaker 2>to you because they used to speak to you at school.

0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 2>So and I, ironically, probably a week ago, I rang

0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 2>one of my former students who I know was having

0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:54.879
<v Speaker 2>a bad time, and you know, he was, oh, my god,

0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:56.360
<v Speaker 2>thanks so much for ringing, mate, I said, dude, I

0:42:56.360 --> 0:42:57.920
<v Speaker 2>not fucking ring any day of the week. And we

0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.239
<v Speaker 2>had this very long conversation and the last thing we

0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:04.200
<v Speaker 2>talked about was whittling, because that's what he does for

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:04.600
<v Speaker 2>a hobby.

0:43:04.600 --> 0:43:04.759
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:08.279
<v Speaker 2>He whittles, right, And he was telling me how he

0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:10.160
<v Speaker 2>spent ten minutes telling me how he was making a

0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:13.640
<v Speaker 2>spoon but fucking way better than talking about the job

0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:15.440
<v Speaker 2>he'd gone to. He just needed someone to have a

0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:19.279
<v Speaker 2>chat with about something normal. So something abnormal. This is

0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:21.959
<v Speaker 2>what is abnormal. Now I talks you about my new hobby,

0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.160
<v Speaker 2>which is whittling, and I'm like, dude, it's an old

0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:26.160
<v Speaker 2>man's hobby. And he's like, I am the youngest person

0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:28.960
<v Speaker 2>by forty years in the class.

0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:33.560
<v Speaker 1>That's hilarious. It's like, I think the funny thing is

0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 1>that sometimes like yeah, or you don't need to talk

0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:41.040
<v Speaker 1>about the problem. You just need to talk about anything

0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:44.239
<v Speaker 1>but the problem. Sometimes just to get out of that

0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:48.799
<v Speaker 1>that's that folk like where all you where? You're in

0:43:48.840 --> 0:43:52.320
<v Speaker 1>the middle of that experience and then you're talking about

0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:57.160
<v Speaker 1>motorbikes or surfing or whittling or whatever it is, just

0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:00.719
<v Speaker 1>to shift your attention and your emotional energy away from

0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:02.719
<v Speaker 1>that thing that's giving you that anxiety.

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and we do that as first responders. And you

0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:11.120
<v Speaker 2>watch the newer people, who predominantly are younger. So you

0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:15.520
<v Speaker 2>go to a massive, big two or three car incident, hollicopters,

0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:18.440
<v Speaker 2>everything right, yeah, and someone will walk up to you

0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:22.000
<v Speaker 2>and go, oh, when's your next day off? Oh yeah,

0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 2>two days from now? Well what are you doing? And

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.960
<v Speaker 2>have a reasonable conversation about what you're doing on your

0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.760
<v Speaker 2>days off amongst all this carnage and amongst all this mayhem.

0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:34.520
<v Speaker 2>And then newer people are like, how the fuck do

0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:36.680
<v Speaker 2>you do that? Just talk about the football and you go,

0:44:37.120 --> 0:44:39.040
<v Speaker 2>what do you want to talk about? Mate? The dead people?

0:44:39.280 --> 0:44:40.919
<v Speaker 2>No one wants to talk about the dead people. Maye

0:44:40.920 --> 0:44:44.600
<v Speaker 2>not now, later we will. How about we talk about

0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:46.360
<v Speaker 2>normal stuff that normal people talk about.

0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But you know, to people listening to this, they're

0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:52.360
<v Speaker 1>going to go, how the fuck is wrong with you

0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:56.560
<v Speaker 1>talking about the football and that situation? But I understand it.

0:44:56.560 --> 0:45:00.760
<v Speaker 1>It's yeah, it is like what's funny? Is one person's

0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:04.399
<v Speaker 1>weird as another person's normal? Yes, one, you know, it's

0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:07.839
<v Speaker 1>like like when you said that, I'm like, really, that's

0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.080
<v Speaker 1>what you're But then you're like, yeah, but that kind

0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:13.439
<v Speaker 1>of makes sense because you know, what's done is done.

0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:16.040
<v Speaker 1>We can't undo that, can't change it. Yes, we can't

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:18.000
<v Speaker 1>change that. So now we've just got to navigate it.

0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:20.840
<v Speaker 1>We do everything humanly possible to look after and protect

0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:24.200
<v Speaker 1>it and serve these people. But this is where we

0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:26.680
<v Speaker 1>are at right now, and so right now, what we're

0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:28.880
<v Speaker 1>going to do is talk about the game on the weekend.

0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:31.799
<v Speaker 1>And that's really for your own mental.

0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Health, right absolutely. And what I used to do because

0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:36.480
<v Speaker 2>obviously I was a chef, so I used to bake.

0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:38.759
<v Speaker 2>So I used to bake all the time, and I said,

0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:41.719
<v Speaker 2>take Anzac cookies and chocolate chip cookies to work in

0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:46.120
<v Speaker 2>a big tub. And after really big jobs, we always

0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:48.359
<v Speaker 2>used to get into normally my ambulance and I'd pull

0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:50.440
<v Speaker 2>the cookies out and I'd pass them around. We'd all

0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:55.640
<v Speaker 2>be standing there eating cookies, talking about what happened. It's normal. Yeah,

0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:58.799
<v Speaker 2>And it got to the point that's like years into

0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:02.240
<v Speaker 2>the job. One of my managers, we've gone to this unfortunately,

0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:04.480
<v Speaker 2>this really big car accident, and he came up to me.

0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:06.439
<v Speaker 2>He goes, you have any cookies in the car? Yeah,

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 2>he goes, can you bring them? I went, oh, wow, okay,

0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:14.759
<v Speaker 2>So because like we'd actually normalized something, yes, yes, And

0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:21.360
<v Speaker 2>after I couldn't stop baking cookies because everyone always wanted them,

0:46:21.560 --> 0:46:25.319
<v Speaker 2>which was lovely. But yeah, it was very interesting for me.

0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I do distinctly remember standing by the side of the

0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:31.520
<v Speaker 2>road in Point cook at this huge car accident and

0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:33.640
<v Speaker 2>we're all standing around eating cookies. Andyone's going, O, I's gotty,

0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:34.319
<v Speaker 2>These are fucking great.

0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:41.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I know, I kind of feel like that's bad. Yeah,

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:42.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm kidding.

0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:46.840
<v Speaker 2>I think from the outside watching that, I believe the

0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:50.240
<v Speaker 2>public would go what the fuck. But at some stage

0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:53.480
<v Speaker 2>you have to let it. One of my instructors said

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.040
<v Speaker 2>to me, let it drain out of your boots. Just

0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:58.839
<v Speaker 2>let it go and let it and let it. It'll go,

0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 2>and then you do something else because just remember, mate,

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:05.040
<v Speaker 2>you have to pack up the car and then go

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.719
<v Speaker 2>do it again. Yes, so you can't think about what

0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:10.719
<v Speaker 2>you just did because it takes away from what you're

0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:13.560
<v Speaker 2>about to do. So you've got to have that moment

0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:15.040
<v Speaker 2>of normality in the middle.

0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:17.759
<v Speaker 1>And you've got to go home and say hello to

0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:21.400
<v Speaker 1>your your missus or your husband, whatever the case is,

0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:23.879
<v Speaker 1>or your kids or and then you've got to turn

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:26.560
<v Speaker 1>up and tomorrow you've got to be brand new and great.

0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:31.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, hey, mate, it's always great chatting with you.

0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Thank you that much.

0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:35.000
<v Speaker 1>You're going to become a regular. We've just you've just

0:47:35.040 --> 0:47:38.960
<v Speaker 1>been given the like the Facebook tick, You've been given

0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:43.000
<v Speaker 1>the typ tick, so you've got the the whatever that

0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:45.680
<v Speaker 1>status is, you've got that now. So we'll chat to

0:47:45.680 --> 0:47:49.160
<v Speaker 1>you another week or three. But tell people how they

0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:50.760
<v Speaker 1>can find you and connect with you.

0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:55.319
<v Speaker 2>Mister Horatio Jones on Instagram. And if people would like

0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:58.040
<v Speaker 2>to have a look at my books. I've written two

0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:00.279
<v Speaker 2>books and I'm in the process writing a third one

0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:02.960
<v Speaker 2>which comes out hopefully in March, they can go to

0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Horatio hyphen Jones dot com dot au and check out

0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the website. Thank you very very.

0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:12.120
<v Speaker 1>Much, Oh mate, We appreciate you. Thanks for all the

0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:14.160
<v Speaker 1>stories and all the wisdom and all the insight. We

0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:16.080
<v Speaker 1>love having you as being part of the team. You

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:16.839
<v Speaker 1>have a good day. Man.

0:48:17.200 --> 0:48:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Cheers Man, your team mate.