WEBVTT - Gambling Harm in Australia - Part B 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Appoche production. 0:00:10.081 --> 0:00:13.001 Hi everyone, thanks for tuning back into Tennis for Nurses. 0:00:13.401 --> 0:00:17.441 This week is Part B of our Gambling Conversation with 0:00:17.561 --> 0:00:20.281 turning point to Australia and where I had the absolute 0:00:20.281 --> 0:00:23.441 privilege of talking to Zen who's a social worker, and Kate, 0:00:23.481 --> 0:00:27.161 who has live life experience and is an advocate around 0:00:27.361 --> 0:00:30.961 gambling harm in Australia. The conversation was too big just 0:00:31.001 --> 0:00:33.840 to put in one episode, so I hope you get 0:00:33.961 --> 0:00:37.441 something out of Part B. I know I learned so 0:00:37.601 --> 0:00:41.521 much listening and talking to these amazing women, so enjoy 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.761 just a little reminder that there may be some triggering 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:51.120 conversations during this podcast, but honestly it's absolutely worth listening to. 0:00:51.361 --> 0:00:53.840 And guys, if you haven't listened to Part A of 0:00:53.881 --> 0:00:58.081 this conversation, it was last week's episode, so check out 0:00:58.121 --> 0:01:00.601 Tennis for Nurses and just make sure you listen to 0:01:00.721 --> 0:01:03.161 Part A of our Conversation around gambling. 0:01:03.401 --> 0:01:03.801 Thanks. 0:01:04.281 --> 0:01:07.681 Hi, my name's Beck Goodbine, and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. 0:01:08.281 --> 0:01:12.041 I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity 0:01:12.121 --> 0:01:15.681 to be, so I hit it and parked it for 0:01:15.801 --> 0:01:18.920 nearly four years. We always have free will, we always 0:01:18.961 --> 0:01:19.600 get to choose. 0:01:19.721 --> 0:01:21.161 We are autonomous. 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.280 I am in complete and utter or of you, Kate, 0:01:27.881 --> 0:01:32.321 and hand on heart from someone who's had addiction issues, 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.360 I truly mean that I am very aware with my 0:01:37.481 --> 0:01:42.241 personality of pokey machines. I don't have any apps on 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:48.521 my phone, but I am very particular about those venues, 0:01:48.761 --> 0:01:51.241 mainly because I know how easy it is to get 0:01:51.561 --> 0:01:53.761 sucked into things and I don't want to go down 0:01:53.801 --> 0:01:57.761 that pathway. And a really interesting thing last year, I 0:01:57.801 --> 0:02:00.641 had to go to a conference and the only accommodation 0:02:00.641 --> 0:02:02.441 I could get in this down the Gold Coast was 0:02:02.441 --> 0:02:05.361 actually at the casino. It was a three day conference. 0:02:05.681 --> 0:02:08.641 I was there for three nights or two nights, and 0:02:08.961 --> 0:02:15.201 I ended up leaving the conference early because my anxiety 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.001 and I couldn't work out why I was so anxious, 0:02:18.721 --> 0:02:21.481 you know, because I was with people. I knew it 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.881 was a great conference. And then the penny dropped. It 0:02:25.001 --> 0:02:27.841 was staying at the casino. It was the energy that 0:02:27.921 --> 0:02:31.001 was in the casino. It was walking past all the 0:02:31.041 --> 0:02:33.881 noises and the and I don't have an issue with 0:02:34.161 --> 0:02:37.121 gambling per se, but I just think it was the 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.800 energy of the place. It was so low and there 0:02:40.841 --> 0:02:43.681 were people there that just couldn't afford to be there, 0:02:44.081 --> 0:02:47.281 and there they were. And in the end, I was like, 0:02:47.561 --> 0:02:49.961 the conference is again this year, and it's like, there's 0:02:50.281 --> 0:02:53.520 no way on earth I am staying at that casino again. 0:02:53.641 --> 0:02:57.281 And I thought, isn't it interesting that I was so 0:02:57.401 --> 0:03:01.041 aware of it and could recognize the sensation of staying 0:03:01.081 --> 0:03:04.680 there and what it did to me. And I'm assuming, Kate, 0:03:04.721 --> 0:03:08.281 you would never go into a casino. I've had to 0:03:08.401 --> 0:03:13.000 give trainings to staff and things like that in venues 0:03:13.201 --> 0:03:15.441 with the work that I do as an advocate. It 0:03:15.481 --> 0:03:21.240 doesn't hold power over me now because I've liberated myself 0:03:21.281 --> 0:03:23.361 from the shame that was never mine to bear. 0:03:23.841 --> 0:03:26.481 This shame belongs on this industry. 0:03:26.561 --> 0:03:30.961 This shame belongs on governments and regulatory bodies that have 0:03:31.081 --> 0:03:35.481 failed to put consumer protections front and center. 0:03:35.801 --> 0:03:36.161 Period. 0:03:36.761 --> 0:03:40.720 We shouldn't have thirty two billion dollars being lost out 0:03:40.721 --> 0:03:44.440 of our nation. It's a disgrace that that is happening 0:03:44.761 --> 0:03:49.121 under any prime minister's watch. And to point fingers and 0:03:49.161 --> 0:03:52.241 blame Albany, sorry, You've got to point the fingers all 0:03:52.281 --> 0:03:57.041 the way back to the fifties where this started and 0:03:57.401 --> 0:03:59.961 has never been rained in I just. 0:03:59.961 --> 0:04:03.561 Can't even comprehend thirty two billion. 0:04:05.241 --> 0:04:06.161 It's next level. 0:04:07.001 --> 0:04:11.841 It is for twenty seven million people, twenty seven million Australia, 0:04:11.881 --> 0:04:19.081 twenty seven million people, but thirty two billion dollars. Yeah, 0:04:19.161 --> 0:04:20.241 holy shit. 0:04:20.841 --> 0:04:24.161 When you put it that way, that blows my mind away. 0:04:24.641 --> 0:04:28.001 And though the types of statistics and facts which it 0:04:28.081 --> 0:04:30.561 is really important, like through turning point, We've got the 0:04:30.601 --> 0:04:33.760 Gambling Help Online website which has forums, and they are 0:04:33.761 --> 0:04:37.681 anonymous forums where people can connect with others, both loved 0:04:37.721 --> 0:04:40.520 ones and people who are gambling, who are wanting to 0:04:40.521 --> 0:04:43.161 make a change, like and a lot of it is 0:04:43.361 --> 0:04:47.801 just them learning these facts and going, oh my god. One, 0:04:47.841 --> 0:04:50.200 I'm not the only person going through this, or I'm 0:04:50.241 --> 0:04:53.161 not the only affected family member or loved one, and 0:04:53.281 --> 0:04:57.081 two I'm caught up in all of this with other people. 0:04:57.161 --> 0:04:59.481 I'm not on my own. I can break these things down. 0:04:59.521 --> 0:05:03.001 But being empowered with the knowledge, like the amount of 0:05:03.161 --> 0:05:06.960 just articles and information we're constantly putting onto the Gambling 0:05:06.961 --> 0:05:09.520 Help Online website, which is like kind of really basic, 0:05:09.641 --> 0:05:12.281 like these are the statistics. This is not on you, 0:05:12.361 --> 0:05:14.681 this is not about you, this is what is happening, 0:05:14.681 --> 0:05:17.400 this is the reality. Here are the pragmatic changes you 0:05:17.401 --> 0:05:19.601 can make. Here are the services you can access, but 0:05:20.241 --> 0:05:22.320 it is important that you have that bigger picture so 0:05:22.401 --> 0:05:24.841 you can feel, as you said, Kate, empowered, So the 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.961 individuals can shed this shame, which yeah, it's not theirs 0:05:28.001 --> 0:05:30.921 to have. They are people who have been caught up 0:05:31.001 --> 0:05:33.801 in something which is insidious and so much bigger than 0:05:33.841 --> 0:05:36.041 we ever properly give credence to. 0:05:37.121 --> 0:05:40.401 So then if someone rings you up and they're at 0:05:40.401 --> 0:05:43.601 the end of their tether, like it sounded like Kate was, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.041 what are the steps you advise? 0:05:47.241 --> 0:05:49.520 I think as a counselor the first thing is actually 0:05:49.601 --> 0:05:53.121 sitting with someone in that space and acknowledging that just 0:05:53.241 --> 0:05:55.481 the level of stress, that sense of powerlessness, and then 0:05:55.561 --> 0:05:59.881 trying to work out what for them they can tangibly 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:02.721 put in place and what do they need in that moment, 0:06:02.801 --> 0:06:06.601 and then moving forward. Depending on the state someone lives in, 0:06:06.841 --> 0:06:09.241 each state has different services and different things that can 0:06:09.281 --> 0:06:12.961 be put in place. Every state and territory, individuals and 0:06:13.121 --> 0:06:18.121 affected loved ones can all access gambling counseling and financial counseling. 0:06:19.081 --> 0:06:22.440 So if we're talking to someone on the Gambler's Helpline 0:06:22.641 --> 0:06:27.481 for Victoria, or Tasmania, we can do a facilitated referral 0:06:27.561 --> 0:06:30.881 through to their local gambling counseling service and also get 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.921 them linked with a financial counselor that way we can 0:06:34.401 --> 0:06:38.721 assist them with getting to betstop or getting in contact 0:06:38.761 --> 0:06:43.521 with the state's relevant self exclusion services for the actual venues. 0:06:44.481 --> 0:06:48.121 When people come through on web chats, so that's anyone 0:06:48.161 --> 0:06:52.401 from the entire country, we can do those facilitated referrals 0:06:52.401 --> 0:06:55.720 again through to their local services so that the owners 0:06:55.761 --> 0:06:59.001 is on the service to contact the person, which takes 0:06:59.001 --> 0:07:01.161 a bit of the pressure off that person going, oh, 0:07:01.201 --> 0:07:02.801 I have to wait until nine am so I can 0:07:02.841 --> 0:07:05.361 call this service. No, the service has my information, they 0:07:05.401 --> 0:07:07.880 can reach out to me. I can get this support 0:07:08.681 --> 0:07:12.641 and really just talking people through what's available and also 0:07:12.721 --> 0:07:15.041 if someone's on the gambling help online website, what kind 0:07:15.041 --> 0:07:19.001 of resources can be useful for managing urgers, Linking in 0:07:19.041 --> 0:07:21.881 with the forum, getting connected with other people so they're 0:07:21.921 --> 0:07:25.681 feeling a bit less alone, and also at times having 0:07:25.681 --> 0:07:29.081 conversations with them about like who knows what's going on? 0:07:29.161 --> 0:07:32.361 Who do you feel comfortable having this conversation within your 0:07:32.401 --> 0:07:34.761 day to day life, and how can we help you 0:07:34.841 --> 0:07:36.921 get there. Do you need to write a little script 0:07:36.921 --> 0:07:39.321 about how you're going to tell a partner or a child. 0:07:39.441 --> 0:07:43.321 You know, let's workshop some of those things. Just getting 0:07:43.361 --> 0:07:46.441 the support, but the pragmatic, real life things that people 0:07:46.521 --> 0:07:48.921 have to do just as important. 0:07:49.081 --> 0:07:52.201 I know it was very important, and Kate, it resounded 0:07:52.201 --> 0:07:54.561 with me when you spoke with your twelve year old. 0:07:55.321 --> 0:07:58.401 I have spoken to both my kids and I wasn't 0:07:58.401 --> 0:08:01.041 a fall down drunk or any of that sort of stuff, 0:08:01.521 --> 0:08:05.001 but I did ask my kids if my drinking impact 0:08:05.201 --> 0:08:07.881 to them in some way. I think my words have 0:08:07.961 --> 0:08:12.721 I stuffed you up? And you know what that's going 0:08:12.761 --> 0:08:15.041 to know? We are really proud of you. And there's 0:08:15.041 --> 0:08:18.161 something I love with this younger generation and people who 0:08:18.281 --> 0:08:21.321 pooh or whatever, but this younger generation are all over 0:08:21.601 --> 0:08:26.441 empathy and caring, acceptance, and you know, you guys have 0:08:26.481 --> 0:08:31.401 got it nailed. It's my generation that are the ones 0:08:31.481 --> 0:08:37.441 that blame, shame, embarrassed, whereas this younger generation are so 0:08:37.761 --> 0:08:40.921 wonderful at being that little bit insightful and going, yeah, 0:08:40.961 --> 0:08:41.481 you're okay. 0:08:41.601 --> 0:08:42.241 I think I'm. 0:08:42.081 --> 0:08:45.841 Okay, let's talk about it. And I think it's lovely 0:08:45.881 --> 0:08:48.681 what your son said. Kate and I have to also acknowledge, 0:08:48.841 --> 0:08:50.521 you must have a really beautiful husband. 0:08:51.241 --> 0:08:56.641 Yeah, just had twenty five years married and look, it's 0:08:56.681 --> 0:09:03.041 a miracle that we survived in and many marriages don't. 0:09:03.361 --> 0:09:07.601 And that's often because people are just operating out of 0:09:07.641 --> 0:09:11.241 their own sense of pain and aren't able to see 0:09:11.401 --> 0:09:15.201 the pain of the other person clearly enough. And that's 0:09:15.321 --> 0:09:19.121 completely valid, you know, because you don't know what you 0:09:19.201 --> 0:09:23.961 don't know. And it's not about assigning blame. It's about going, Okay, 0:09:24.761 --> 0:09:27.361 I did things that I wish I could have changed. 0:09:27.521 --> 0:09:29.761 He did things he wished he could have changed, and 0:09:29.801 --> 0:09:34.201 we both decided let's move forward together and not keep 0:09:34.721 --> 0:09:38.081 throwing our past in each other's faces. And as far 0:09:38.201 --> 0:09:43.841 as total transparency with the children, having that open dialogue 0:09:43.921 --> 0:09:47.601 always available if there's anything that they want to talk 0:09:47.641 --> 0:09:51.921 to me about or feel an impact from. But the 0:09:52.041 --> 0:09:54.761 proud of the work that I've done in this space, 0:09:54.961 --> 0:09:58.641 and it's given them a knowledge base in which to 0:09:58.721 --> 0:10:03.841 operate in the world with clear understanding of the way 0:10:04.081 --> 0:10:09.801 that it's designed to entrap people. So they not only 0:10:09.841 --> 0:10:12.041 know it for themselves, but they're looking out for their 0:10:12.081 --> 0:10:16.041 mates and making sure that none of their friends full 0:10:16.121 --> 0:10:21.041 victim to this industry because it's just waiting. 0:10:21.761 --> 0:10:22.041 Kate. 0:10:22.121 --> 0:10:27.721 I bet you've got really kind, insightful kids. They're pretty 0:10:27.721 --> 0:10:30.921 great because you've been honest with them. And I think 0:10:30.961 --> 0:10:33.921 that in itself is a gift you've given your. 0:10:33.921 --> 0:10:38.641 Kids, absolutely, and to the people they know. I mean, 0:10:38.681 --> 0:10:41.841 it makes such a big difference to their friends knowing 0:10:41.881 --> 0:10:44.481 that they have people they can be open with and 0:10:44.561 --> 0:10:47.241 they use that empathy and support and understanding. So it's 0:10:47.921 --> 0:10:49.561 a gift not just to your children, but to the 0:10:49.561 --> 0:10:52.361 people in their lives as well. There are so many 0:10:52.481 --> 0:10:53.361 ripple effects. 0:10:54.121 --> 0:10:59.001 Absolutely, that's so true. Hum what is the work you're doing. 0:10:58.841 --> 0:10:59.681 Now, Kate. 0:11:00.601 --> 0:11:04.441 Well, I've been a national advocate for gambling reform for 0:11:04.481 --> 0:11:08.841 the last day. I can't believe how long it is 0:11:08.921 --> 0:11:13.321 taking to get traction, to get movement, to get all 0:11:13.401 --> 0:11:19.921 this done. It's absolutely despicable. But I am not allowing 0:11:20.241 --> 0:11:23.681 this to keep going without a fight. And I think 0:11:24.001 --> 0:11:28.881 never in this country has there been a greater community 0:11:29.441 --> 0:11:33.681 sense of we've had enough, we've had enough, and it's 0:11:33.761 --> 0:11:36.641 up to the politicians now to listen to their communities 0:11:37.241 --> 0:11:41.281 and actually take action on this industry. Whereas I think 0:11:41.401 --> 0:11:46.161 in previous decades there just wasn't that community knowledge and 0:11:46.281 --> 0:11:51.521 understanding or pressure to create reform, so politicians felt like 0:11:51.801 --> 0:11:55.481 too vulnerable to put in place what needed to be 0:11:55.521 --> 0:11:58.841 put in place. So I think we're approaching a time 0:11:59.161 --> 0:12:02.881 where we hopefully will see all this hard work of 0:12:03.761 --> 0:12:08.721 educating the community. You know, I've spoken in schools, workplaces, universities, 0:12:09.521 --> 0:12:13.961 and it's so quick to be able to open people's 0:12:14.001 --> 0:12:17.321 eyes up to the reality of the environment that they're 0:12:17.361 --> 0:12:19.961 living in. But if you don't shine that light on 0:12:20.041 --> 0:12:22.921 it in a way that's helping them to feel empowered 0:12:22.961 --> 0:12:26.961 to create change, then we just accept the status quo. 0:12:27.641 --> 0:12:33.361 It's amazing how quickly people become advocates if they receive 0:12:33.441 --> 0:12:34.281 the right information. 0:12:35.321 --> 0:12:40.041 I mean, those numbers speak volumes, but how many people 0:12:40.081 --> 0:12:43.441 do they think are impacted by gambling harm? 0:12:43.481 --> 0:12:44.161 Firsthand? 0:12:44.241 --> 0:12:47.561 I'm not talking families or are there any statistics around 0:12:47.561 --> 0:12:52.361 the number of people that actually believe do have concerns 0:12:52.401 --> 0:12:53.201 around gambling. 0:12:54.041 --> 0:12:55.681 Gambling harm is a spectrum. 0:12:55.761 --> 0:12:59.841 Now, we don't talk about it like there's just people 0:13:00.281 --> 0:13:03.201 you know at this point end because it's all a 0:13:03.201 --> 0:13:09.801 grooming process of normalizing it and accessing it, so accessibility. 0:13:10.401 --> 0:13:15.721 Time spent engaging with the products equals harm, either in 0:13:16.001 --> 0:13:19.121 the short term or the long term, because it's still 0:13:19.161 --> 0:13:21.481 training your brain even if you don't engage with it 0:13:21.521 --> 0:13:24.361 for another decade. Then you lose a loved one and 0:13:24.401 --> 0:13:26.801 you go, oh, I'm going to find myself in this 0:13:27.481 --> 0:13:31.321 safe environment and get exploited down the track. 0:13:31.761 --> 0:13:32.641 Would you agree, Zent? 0:13:33.161 --> 0:13:37.001 Absolutely? And I also think we have your emerging concerns 0:13:37.121 --> 0:13:40.881 now of younger people and in our purchases or like 0:13:41.041 --> 0:13:45.641 loot boxes in games, which are conditioning those neural pathways 0:13:45.681 --> 0:13:49.921 from such a young age and really priming very young 0:13:50.001 --> 0:13:50.881 children's brains. 0:13:50.921 --> 0:13:52.441 What's a loot box? 0:13:53.041 --> 0:13:57.201 A loot box in games? You can win a loot 0:13:57.241 --> 0:13:59.081 box which is basically just. 0:13:59.041 --> 0:14:01.761 A kind of a randomized prize. 0:14:01.401 --> 0:14:05.201 Yeah, a randomized prize in a game. And it's that 0:14:05.481 --> 0:14:11.601 same pattern of winning and the endorphin rush and the 0:14:11.641 --> 0:14:16.121 expectation that's been created for children and young people that 0:14:16.681 --> 0:14:21.281 primes their brains for gambling as they grow up. And 0:14:21.321 --> 0:14:26.401 we're seeing those emergent concerns now, and we hold the 0:14:26.521 --> 0:14:29.681 gambler's youth line here. We do get young people who 0:14:29.721 --> 0:14:33.481 are calling through with these concerns, and it's this I 0:14:33.521 --> 0:14:35.121 was playing video games as a kid and it went 0:14:35.161 --> 0:14:37.601 like this, and it's like, okay, well where do we 0:14:37.641 --> 0:14:40.121 start from. How young are people being targeted? 0:14:41.321 --> 0:14:47.321 So these apps that are on phones and me iPads whatever, 0:14:47.561 --> 0:14:50.521 they're playing a game and then they win a prize 0:14:51.241 --> 0:14:54.121 that might not be monetry, but they might get five 0:14:54.161 --> 0:14:56.241 more gos or something like that that's. 0:14:56.041 --> 0:14:56.761 A loop box. 0:14:57.441 --> 0:15:01.681 Yeah, or the win a skin for a game or something. Yeah. 0:15:01.881 --> 0:15:06.881 That then starts altering their brain, priming them, grooming them 0:15:07.161 --> 0:15:08.321 for gambling down the track. 0:15:08.881 --> 0:15:14.521 Oh my god, because it's eliciting the same neurological response 0:15:14.761 --> 0:15:17.321 that winning a free spin on the pokies or having 0:15:17.361 --> 0:15:20.601 a jackpot on the pokies does. It's the same neural 0:15:20.681 --> 0:15:23.321 pathways that are being targeted through these things, and it 0:15:23.401 --> 0:15:27.201 is damaging. It is problematic, and it's becoming more common. 0:15:27.241 --> 0:15:29.681 More research is being done into it. Now we have 0:15:29.761 --> 0:15:32.201 more of an understanding that there are these risks and 0:15:32.241 --> 0:15:35.001 exposures from a very young age for young people. 0:15:35.441 --> 0:15:40.361 The gambling companies have very much got children and women 0:15:40.641 --> 0:15:45.041 in their sites. So the merging of gambling and gaming 0:15:45.241 --> 0:15:46.161 has happened. 0:15:46.321 --> 0:15:47.081 It's here. 0:15:47.481 --> 0:15:49.561 So part of the talks I give each year is 0:15:49.601 --> 0:15:54.401 to occupational therapists in university, one of the lecturers gets 0:15:54.401 --> 0:15:56.921 me to come in to help them to understand how 0:15:56.961 --> 0:16:02.481 to advocate for their clients, especially neurodiverse children who once 0:16:02.681 --> 0:16:08.641 accessed gaming their social connection or they're safe place. They're 0:16:08.681 --> 0:16:11.761 now screaming at their parents to put more money on 0:16:11.881 --> 0:16:18.081 their steam to keep playing games, and it's just horrific. 0:16:18.281 --> 0:16:22.041 So if they're not prepared to know that that's gambling harm, 0:16:22.201 --> 0:16:25.001 just because it's in a game, it doesn't mean it's 0:16:25.001 --> 0:16:30.321 not gambling harm. It's the same companies are targeting an 0:16:30.361 --> 0:16:35.001 already addicted cohort for want of a better term, in 0:16:35.081 --> 0:16:37.841 the exact same way and financially exploiting them. 0:16:39.321 --> 0:16:40.521 Knock me over with a feather. 0:16:40.641 --> 0:16:43.721 I had no idea, and I'm pretty up to date 0:16:43.841 --> 0:16:47.041 with things, so therefore, if I have no idea, I 0:16:47.041 --> 0:16:49.681 can tell you the majority of Australians would have no idea. 0:16:50.601 --> 0:16:51.081 Yeah. 0:16:51.241 --> 0:16:54.241 The co design of the program that's going into schools 0:16:54.241 --> 0:16:57.961 in the Act this year, it's called Getting Played. And 0:16:58.361 --> 0:17:01.521 when I was approached to help them with that, I said, 0:17:01.841 --> 0:17:05.721 I'm not interested in something that's just going to feel. 0:17:05.481 --> 0:17:08.681 The place of an education program. 0:17:09.201 --> 0:17:14.561 If this education program doesn't in fact inform children about 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.001 what they're engaging with, because it's not about making people 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:24.001 who do gamble feel dumb or stupid about being exploited. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:29.001 It's about highlighting the industry and how it is training 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.600 them and grooming them for addiction so that they can 0:17:32.681 --> 0:17:36.041 then make empowered choices about their environment. 0:17:36.801 --> 0:17:40.080 That sounds really, really interesting, Kate. It's so important that 0:17:40.120 --> 0:17:43.081 we have these conversations with younger people, and we are 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:47.360 treating younger people as intelligent individuals in their own right 0:17:47.441 --> 0:17:51.200 who need to be aware and fully understand what is 0:17:51.241 --> 0:17:54.080 happening and the realities of these situations. 0:17:54.281 --> 0:17:57.601 It's just not okay that they're expected to know how 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.360 to navigate that. I mean, I thought I was an 0:18:00.360 --> 0:18:03.281 adult at eighteen and had no idea. 0:18:03.321 --> 0:18:05.041 But it doesn't discriminate. 0:18:05.201 --> 0:18:07.480 It doesn't matter if you are a child, it doesn't 0:18:07.481 --> 0:18:11.001 matter if you're in your eighties. You are still equally 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.521 as vulnerable to being preyed upon. 0:18:13.801 --> 0:18:17.001 It. That's the reality we think about some of that 0:18:17.120 --> 0:18:19.480 language people use where they're like, I never thought this 0:18:19.521 --> 0:18:22.201 could happen to me because of X, and it's like, well, 0:18:22.561 --> 0:18:24.921 and again it comes back to kind of unpacking and 0:18:25.001 --> 0:18:27.920 shedding that shame. It's like it's not a reflection on you. 0:18:27.921 --> 0:18:30.600 You actually could not have done anything differently right now, 0:18:31.441 --> 0:18:34.880 this is the industry, this is how it works. You 0:18:34.961 --> 0:18:38.761 are still an intelligent, important individual. Now it's about moving 0:18:38.761 --> 0:18:41.000 forward and out of this. But it's not a reflection 0:18:41.120 --> 0:18:41.441 on you. 0:18:41.761 --> 0:18:45.761 Yeah, do you think it's everywhere? Everywhere? What hope do 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:46.561 some people have? 0:18:47.481 --> 0:18:49.680 People can make changes, Yeah. 0:18:49.441 --> 0:18:52.680 But when you start looking at it through the correct lens, 0:18:53.041 --> 0:18:56.920 when you start to see it like the gross toxic 0:18:57.001 --> 0:19:00.201 space that it is, you know, changing your relationship with alcohol, 0:19:00.201 --> 0:19:03.121 when you go, okay, this is a toxic that I'm 0:19:03.120 --> 0:19:06.160 trying to ingest and pretend and that my body's okay 0:19:06.201 --> 0:19:08.600 with it. You know, if somebody finds out in their 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.321 thirties that they're gluten intolerant, no one walks around going, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.801 oh my gosh, I can't believe. I can't you know, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:18.601 I'm such a bad human that I can't have gluten anymore. 0:19:18.681 --> 0:19:19.401 You accept it. 0:19:19.801 --> 0:19:22.360 You realize that that's a choice you are making for 0:19:22.441 --> 0:19:24.480 your own well being. If you choose to eat it, 0:19:24.561 --> 0:19:27.681 you're going to feel the effects of it, and it's 0:19:27.761 --> 0:19:31.681 not going to be okay. So why is there this 0:19:31.801 --> 0:19:35.720 difference between making an empowered choice about alcohol consumption or 0:19:35.721 --> 0:19:40.041 making an empowered choice about using gambling or not. You know, 0:19:40.241 --> 0:19:44.401 it's all about perspective and empowerment rather than saying you 0:19:44.441 --> 0:19:47.761 can't do this anymore, like no one can get shamed 0:19:47.801 --> 0:19:49.801 into changing, no period. 0:19:49.921 --> 0:19:52.761 But it's just so insidious from what you got, like 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.161 how you're describing it's so insidious. 0:19:55.321 --> 0:19:57.961 It is insidious. And that's why we're a twenty four 0:19:57.961 --> 0:20:02.201 hour service. And I've spoken to people quite late into 0:20:02.201 --> 0:20:05.961 the evening and they've been like, ohla, glad you were there. 0:20:06.041 --> 0:20:09.400 I'm glad someone was there because for a lot of people, 0:20:10.041 --> 0:20:13.161 particularly early doors, when they're trying to readjust and they're 0:20:13.201 --> 0:20:15.681 trying to work through and begin to understand what they're 0:20:15.721 --> 0:20:19.121 doing in terms of their gambling, just having someone there 0:20:19.241 --> 0:20:23.080 they can talk to in those moments. And we have 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.680 conversations with people where it's like, Okay, you're driving home, 0:20:25.921 --> 0:20:29.920 you can't avoid the Pokey's call us call us when 0:20:29.961 --> 0:20:31.440 you get into the car. Or do you have a 0:20:31.441 --> 0:20:33.561 friend that you can organize to speak to on these 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:38.440 days so that gradually the mindset can shift and the 0:20:38.481 --> 0:20:43.360 focus can shift. And but there's work early doors in 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:48.561 making these changes. I just wish that people gave themselves 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.920 the grace to do that. And that's one of the 0:20:51.921 --> 0:20:53.720 big things I always talk about with people, is like, 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.201 give yourself the grace to do this and to call 0:20:57.281 --> 0:20:59.600 us to reach out, to do whatever you need to 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.241 do in these moments. Whatever you have to do to 0:21:01.281 --> 0:21:03.801 get through this is fine. It's for you. It's for 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:04.441 your benefit. 0:21:05.721 --> 0:21:07.761 Not having an expectation of perfection. 0:21:08.481 --> 0:21:12.561 Yeah, you know, just allow yourself to be human and 0:21:12.681 --> 0:21:16.200 realize it took twenty years to condition you into a state. 0:21:16.961 --> 0:21:20.120 You have to give your time, your body time to 0:21:20.201 --> 0:21:26.041 adjust and don't let you know one day spo you know, 0:21:26.241 --> 0:21:30.121 spiral or have more power than it should. Just refocus 0:21:30.201 --> 0:21:32.521 and go, okay, what are my goals moving forward? 0:21:33.041 --> 0:21:36.360 Yeah? Absolutely, And there are those days that are just 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.521 more difficult. You know, we have people who are still 0:21:38.521 --> 0:21:41.400 getting in contact with us, either on the online forums 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.480 on gambling help on the web, chats on the phone lines, 0:21:44.561 --> 0:21:46.680 and they'll be like, I haven't gambled in ten years, 0:21:47.041 --> 0:21:51.600 but today I just need to check in. And it's like, great, 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:56.720 good on you. That is amazing. And sometimes those conversations 0:21:56.721 --> 0:21:59.840 and conversations I end up just going somewhere completely tangential 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:02.681 because they really just needed a distraction and the support 0:22:02.721 --> 0:22:04.600 in that moment. And it's like, but this is still 0:22:04.801 --> 0:22:07.120 one because all how insideful, some days I'm more difficult. 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:09.360 You're acknowledging that and the fact that you guys are 0:22:09.360 --> 0:22:12.921 there for them to turn to someone that isn't going 0:22:12.921 --> 0:22:17.160 to shame them, is open to the conversation, understands that, 0:22:17.241 --> 0:22:18.400 you know, they just need to chat. 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:19.440 How good's that? 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.281 Yeah? It is. I think it's got Every state and 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.321 territory has their services, and the various states and territories 0:22:25.360 --> 0:22:28.521 have the various services for affected loved ones as well. 0:22:28.721 --> 0:22:32.080 And it's always just particularly with those online spaces we 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.120 have because they are anonymous, is just making sure people 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.840 can break down the earlier barriers and really forge that 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.521 connection early on. And sometimes people need to have those 0:22:42.521 --> 0:22:45.041 conversations like on the forum or viral web chat first 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.480 where they're saying everything but there's no name or anything 0:22:48.521 --> 0:22:50.680 to it. They can be really anonymous and having that 0:22:50.761 --> 0:22:53.481 space allows them to build up to speak to someone 0:22:53.481 --> 0:22:54.960 on the phone, and then they speak to someone on 0:22:54.961 --> 0:22:56.641 a phone a few times, and then they can see 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.440 the counselor and they may not have stopped gambling yet, 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.720 but they just needed to go through those little steps 0:23:03.721 --> 0:23:06.240