WEBVTT - King Charles, Lidia Thorpe and the pursuit of justice

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media on Daniel James This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>King Charles's first visit to Australia as monarch laid bare

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of unfinished business. Moments after the King sat

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<v Speaker 1>down after finishing an address to parliamentarians and other dignitaries

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<v Speaker 1>in the Great Hall in Parliament House, Independent Senator Lydia

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<v Speaker 1>Thorpe was escorted out of the hall after approaching the

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<v Speaker 1>King while shouting you are not our king and this

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<v Speaker 1>is not your land. It didn't just bring home the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that, despite a failed republic referendum in nineteen ninety nine,

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<v Speaker 1>having unelected an unaccountable head of state is still a

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<v Speaker 1>concern for many Australians. It also highlighted that the more

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<v Speaker 1>recent failed referendum on the Voice to Parliament has far

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<v Speaker 1>from settled any of the issues around truth, treaty and justice.

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<v Speaker 1>Today Communists for the Saturday Paper Paul bon Jorno on

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<v Speaker 1>the demands from Australia and other colonies for justice and reparations.

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<v Speaker 1>It is Friday, October twenty five. Paul, good morning, and

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<v Speaker 1>God save the King.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, God save the King.

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<v Speaker 1>So Senator Laity of Thorpe's comments to King Charles during

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<v Speaker 1>his visit here in Australia. They've made ways, but they

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<v Speaker 1>were hardly surprising. We all know how she feels about

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<v Speaker 1>the monarchy, don't we.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, we do, and Thorpe's brazen disregard for protocol that

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<v Speaker 2>the royal reception is well, it's hardly surprising given her

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<v Speaker 2>often stated aim to draw attention to the injustices suffered

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<v Speaker 2>by First Australians and by colonial dispossession and the so

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<v Speaker 2>called frontier Wars that saw thousands of Indigenous men, women

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<v Speaker 2>and children killed. While she certainly got the whole world

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<v Speaker 2>talking about these issues, even though she was condemned for

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<v Speaker 2>her rudeness by the Prime Minister and senior politicians from

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<v Speaker 2>both sides, Senator Thorpe did say she put in a

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<v Speaker 2>written request for a respectful conversation with the King about

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<v Speaker 2>the plight of her people, which was ignored. It should

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<v Speaker 2>be noted she didn't interrupt the King, but waited till

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<v Speaker 2>he had spoken, waited till he had completed his address,

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<v Speaker 2>and then she seized the moment of a lull in

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<v Speaker 2>proceedings to stage a demonstration. And what a demonstration it was.

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<v Speaker 2>She hit unresolved issues at the core of our national

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<v Speaker 2>identity and democracy. Thorpe is far from alone in seeing

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<v Speaker 2>the structure of our constitutional monarchy and aboriginal recognition as

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<v Speaker 2>significant unfinished business. A treaty that she demands would be

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<v Speaker 2>an ultimate recognition of the rights and dignity of dispossessed

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<v Speaker 2>indigenous peoples denied to them since Captain Cook claimed possession

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<v Speaker 2>of the continent for the Crown and Daniel. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>a surprise that the royal visit reignited these conversations. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 2>the visit itself sparked a whole new discussion around a

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<v Speaker 2>republic before the King even boughted his first class Singapore

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<v Speaker 2>Airlines flight out of London.

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<v Speaker 1>So he'd done a great job all of describing what

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<v Speaker 1>the deeper issues are in relation to Senator Thorpe's comments,

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<v Speaker 1>but broadly would have been the reaction to her comments

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<v Speaker 1>within the media and elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, If the point of any protest is to draw

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<v Speaker 2>attention to a cause and to get people talking, well

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<v Speaker 2>Thorpe she succeeded beyond her wildest dreams. She scored numerous

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<v Speaker 2>media interviews in Australia radio and TV as well as internationally.

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<v Speaker 3>This Aboriginal senator calling out the King for Britain's treatment

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<v Speaker 3>of her people.

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<v Speaker 4>That was the independent Senator Lydia Thorpe making her feelings

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<v Speaker 4>very clear and Lydia Thorpe is with us now welcome

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<v Speaker 4>to Times Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>She even got an interview on the esteemed BBC.

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<v Speaker 3>I managed to ask her what she had done and why.

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<v Speaker 5>I wanted to send a clear message to the King

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<v Speaker 5>of England that he's not the king of this country.

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<v Speaker 5>He's not my king. He is not sovereign. We are sovereign.

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<v Speaker 5>To be sovereign, you have to be of the land.

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<v Speaker 2>Thorpe raised the issue of the crown being responsible for

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<v Speaker 2>a genocide of her people, but what is incontrovertible as

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<v Speaker 2>a number of studies have found of Aboriginal men, women

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<v Speaker 2>and children were killed by British troops and later by

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<v Speaker 2>government forces and the so called Frontier Wars to deliberately

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<v Speaker 2>attempt to eradicate resistance to colonization. And her former Green's

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues backed her. Their protest was to boycott the royal reception.

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<v Speaker 2>Adam Bant, the party leader, says they'll be pushing for

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<v Speaker 2>a Truth and Justice commission to lay the foundations for

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<v Speaker 2>a treaty. And we saw other Aboriginal leaders, for example

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<v Speaker 2>ACT Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children and Young People

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<v Speaker 2>Commissioner Vanessa Turnbull roberts Or. She joined the chorus for support,

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<v Speaker 2>but Thorpe's protest also drew condemnation from some Indigenous leaders.

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<v Speaker 2>Marcia Langton, who played a leading role in the Ularoo

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<v Speaker 2>Statement from the Heart, said Thorpe's outburst was quote embarrassing

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<v Speaker 2>and shameful, and she offered an apology to the monarch

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<v Speaker 2>on behalf of First Nations people. Nova Peris, the former

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<v Speaker 2>Labor senator who headed the Republican movement, said Thorpe should

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<v Speaker 2>quit parliament if she holds the institution in such contempt.

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<v Speaker 4>Now she has said that she hates the colony, f

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<v Speaker 4>the colony, but she swears allegiance to the Queen, accepts

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<v Speaker 4>her a simulation. She's gone into the Australian Parliament. But

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<v Speaker 4>she didn't want the voice going into the Constitution because

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<v Speaker 4>that was an act of simulation.

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<v Speaker 5>So which way is it?

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<v Speaker 4>Do you know? It's like?

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<v Speaker 2>And Opposition leader Peter Dunton, well, his comments were even

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<v Speaker 2>more pointed.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a very strong argument for somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't believe in the system, but it's willing to take

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<v Speaker 1>quarter of a million dollars a year from the system

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<v Speaker 1>to resign in principle.

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<v Speaker 2>And now mainstream Republicans except that the British monarch is

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<v Speaker 2>the head of state, but argue strongly that he shouldn't be,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in light of the research of historian Jenny Hocking

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<v Speaker 2>showing our constitution gives the unelected head of state powers

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<v Speaker 2>that exceed the conventions of a constitutional monarchy. The crown,

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<v Speaker 2>according to these conventions, is required not to be party

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<v Speaker 2>politically active in a way that disrupts our democratic process.

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<v Speaker 2>But you'd have to say, relatively recent history shows that

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't always the case, and the dangerous undemocratic precedent

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<v Speaker 2>has been set.

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<v Speaker 1>And that dangerous undemocratic precedent all was, of course, the

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<v Speaker 1>Whitlam dismissal, which was an event that Australians will never forget.

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<v Speaker 1>But time has a way of creating distance. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>think those events still color how Australians view the king

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<v Speaker 1>right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, probably not as much as they did, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a decade ago. But in King Charles we have a

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<v Speaker 2>direct link to the dismissal and the palace's failure to

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<v Speaker 2>caution Governor General Sir John Kerr against his plan to

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<v Speaker 2>deceive his Prime Minister. Well Charles, in answered correspondence from

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<v Speaker 2>the Australian Republic Movement, told them that it's up to

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<v Speaker 2>the people decide. That he's a constitutional monarch and he

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<v Speaker 2>takes his advice from his Australian ministers. But Charles hasn't

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<v Speaker 2>always acted in this way, as documented in historian Jenny Howkings'

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<v Speaker 2>book She knows better than anyone just how involved Charles

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<v Speaker 2>was in the sacking of GoF Whitlam. She was on

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<v Speaker 2>the ABC recently discussing this.

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<v Speaker 3>Kerr describes this in several documents. It's not just the letters.

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<v Speaker 3>He kept a journal in the nineteen eighties where he

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<v Speaker 3>reflected back on key conversations that he'd had both with

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<v Speaker 3>Charles and with the Queen.

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<v Speaker 2>And she spent more than four years fighting the National

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<v Speaker 2>Archives to release the correspondence between the Queen, Charles's mother,

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<v Speaker 2>the Queen's private secretary and the Governor General, Sir John Kerr.

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<v Speaker 3>The great upset is that there are hundreds more, and

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<v Speaker 3>I have been trying for the last three or four

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<v Speaker 3>years to get access to them. And even though they

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<v Speaker 3>are governed by our conditions which say they should be

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<v Speaker 3>open after thirty years. That is nearly two decades ago.

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<v Speaker 3>They are still closed.

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<v Speaker 2>Hackins, says Charles in an extraordinarily improper letter, later told

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<v Speaker 2>Kerb it was just months after the dismissal not to

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<v Speaker 2>lose heart quote. What you did was the right and

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<v Speaker 2>courageous thing to do.

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<v Speaker 5>So.

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<v Speaker 2>While all royal visits throw some light on the issue

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<v Speaker 2>of a republic in Australia and the role of the monarchy,

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<v Speaker 2>really now that we have Charles as King, there's even

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<v Speaker 2>more edge to it. The royal couple celebrities as they are,

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<v Speaker 2>even though they're old, and I've got nothing against old people,

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<v Speaker 2>we tell you. But they received warm welcomes from respectable,

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<v Speaker 2>cheering crowds, but nowhere near the size of enthusiasm myself

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<v Speaker 2>and other school children showed when his mother first visited

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<v Speaker 2>a as a monarch back in nineteen fifty four, but

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<v Speaker 2>this time with the first visit of a new monarch,

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<v Speaker 2>when Charles and Camilla were greeted by the Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 2>and Opposition leader in Canberra, all the state premiers. While

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<v Speaker 2>they declined their.

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<v Speaker 6>Invitations, Victoria's just seem to Allen absent. South Australia's Peter

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<v Speaker 6>malinowskis absent, saying it's with no disrespect to his majesty.

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<v Speaker 6>Queensland Stephen Miles absent. He's got a bit on. New

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<v Speaker 6>South Wales's Chris Mins absent.

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<v Speaker 2>Western Australia's Premier Roger Cook just vaguely cited that he

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<v Speaker 2>had of the commitments. You'd have to say there's more

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<v Speaker 2>indifference around the crown than ever before. But going back

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<v Speaker 2>to Lydia Thorpe's comments, it's a reminder that the British

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<v Speaker 2>monarch is a world figure at the epicenter of postcolonial

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<v Speaker 2>demands for an apology and reparations in many of the

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen constitutional monarchies still owing allegiance and other former colonies

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<v Speaker 2>in Africa and the Caribbean. Issues that are sure to

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<v Speaker 2>come up in the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Samoa.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break we're to now for the Republican movement.

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Anthony Albanesi is spending even more time with King

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<v Speaker 1>Charles and Queen Camilla as the Commonwealth Heads of Government

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<v Speaker 1>Meeting or Chogham kicks off in Samoa. Can you tell

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<v Speaker 1>me about that meeting?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, the Commonwealth heads of Government is an institution

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<v Speaker 2>at the British Monarq you see as vital to keeping

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<v Speaker 2>them and Britain still relevant in the contemporary world. So

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<v Speaker 2>what we've got in Samoa where the current Commonwealth Heads

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<v Speaker 2>of Government meeting is some key issues are not only

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<v Speaker 2>reparations over issues like slavery, but also our discussions on

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<v Speaker 2>climate change are topping the agenda. Pacific nations are looking

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<v Speaker 2>to use the meeting to draw attention yet again to

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<v Speaker 2>the existential threat of rising sea levels. Interestingly, the Pacific

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<v Speaker 2>island nations particularly have got a very strong ally in

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<v Speaker 2>King Charles on the need for real action on climate change.

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<v Speaker 2>Charles actually went to this in his formal address in

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<v Speaker 2>the Great Hall in Canberra, so nobody can doubt that

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<v Speaker 2>he takes climate change seriously and is urging Commonwealth leaders

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<v Speaker 2>and indeed world leaders are to take it more seriously

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<v Speaker 2>than they have been to date.

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<v Speaker 7>Labor and peas, at least some of them, are putting

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<v Speaker 7>pressure on the Prime Minister to open talks about reparations

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<v Speaker 7>to the Caribbean countries when he visits the Commonwealth Summit

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<v Speaker 7>which has just begun on Samoa.

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<v Speaker 2>On the issue of reparations over slavery. The British Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister Kis Starmer has ruled out any formal apology or reparations.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently Starmer, who is a constitutional lawyer himself, sees a

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<v Speaker 2>formal apology opening up Britain the two claims for billions

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<v Speaker 2>of pounds worth of referations. But still it's clear that

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<v Speaker 2>neither the King nor the British Prime Minister will be

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<v Speaker 2>able to avoid this conversation at the meeting.

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<v Speaker 1>And returning to Australia, Paul, the visit has obviously ignited

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of discussion about the monarchy. So where is

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<v Speaker 1>the republican movement at the moment. It feels like we're

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<v Speaker 1>actually moving further away from a republic strangely.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, there was a bit of excitement amongst Australian

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans when a new Prime Minister, Anthony Alberanizi, had a

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<v Speaker 2>ministry for the Republic. But when the Voice referendum went down,

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<v Speaker 2>he disbandoned that ministry and he put the Republic as

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<v Speaker 2>it were, on the long finger. His people tell me

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<v Speaker 2>that it hasn't been ditched, it's just been parked for

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<v Speaker 2>a while. Albanizi feels that he suffered politically for the

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<v Speaker 2>failure of the referendum, when many people saw that he

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<v Speaker 2>was distracted from their more pressing issues like cost of living.

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<v Speaker 2>When he was asked why it had dropped the portfolio,

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<v Speaker 2>he said he made it clear that there was only

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<v Speaker 2>going to be one referendum this term and he hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>made a commitment to another one. The historian Jenny Hocking

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<v Speaker 2>hopes that should Labor win the upcoming election, ALBANIZI will

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<v Speaker 2>restore the Assistant Ministry for a republic, but I suppose

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<v Speaker 2>in Albanze's favor in terms of keeping faith. In twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two, Assistant Minister Matt Thistlethwaite made it clear that

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<v Speaker 2>the success of the Voice referendum would be the trigger

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<v Speaker 2>for moving onto the Republic in a second term. Publicans

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<v Speaker 2>fear it could be another generation before the issue is revisited. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>let's hope it won't be another generation before the issue

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<v Speaker 2>of Aboriginal recognition and reconciliation is revisited and hopefully resolved.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, at this rate, Paul, I think we can get

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<v Speaker 1>out our little flags and welcome King William at some point.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you Bye.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, supermarket giants Coles and Wilworth

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<v Speaker 1>so they will fight allegations they trick customers with fake discounts.

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<v Speaker 1>Lawyers from both supermarkets have appeared in the Federal Court

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<v Speaker 1>after the A Triple C launched legal proceedings in September

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<v Speaker 1>claiming the company's misled shoppers by raising prices before later

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<v Speaker 1>discounting them. The supermarkets claim the cases against them are misconceived,

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<v Speaker 1>and according to the ATO, more than one point five

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<v Speaker 1>million Australians who would usually submit their tax returns with

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<v Speaker 1>the help of an accountant have yet to do so.

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<v Speaker 1>The ATO is urging taxpayers to submit their income tax

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<v Speaker 1>returns before October thirty first, after which time they may

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<v Speaker 1>face financial penalties. Seven Am is a daily show from

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<v Speaker 1>Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper. It's produced by Shane

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<v Speaker 1>Anderson and Zolten Fetcho. Our technical producer is Atticus Basto.

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>We are edited by Chris Dangate and Sarah mcvee. Eric

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Jensen is our editor in chief. Our mixer is Travis Evans.

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<v Speaker 1>Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan

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<v Speaker 1>of Envelope Audio. Seven Am is hosted by Ruby Jones

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<v Speaker 1>and myself Daniel James. We'll be back on Monday. Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>You