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Speaker 1: Appoche production.

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Speaker 2: This podcast contains discussions of abuse, trauma, mental health, and

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Speaker 2: family conflict. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Secrets of

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Speaker 2: the Underworld. I am Neil the Muscle Cummings, and in

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Speaker 2: this episode I speak with Isami Dane, who is a

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Speaker 2: survivor of child sexual assault and human trafficking.

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Speaker 3: I was used for sexual favors in exchange for free

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Speaker 3: piano lessons for myself and my siblings. I remember always

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Speaker 3: sleeping with a screwdriver next to my bed. I knew

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Speaker 3: I had to have an escape plan just in case

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Speaker 3: my mom wanted to kill me. I was playing something

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Speaker 3: on the piano and all of a sudden I felt

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Speaker 3: their hand and it was not over my clothes anymore.

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Speaker 3: You like to kick us to the ground and then

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Speaker 3: just put his foot on our neck and he'd call

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Speaker 3: us bugs and then he laugh.

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Speaker 4: This has been something that I've really wanted to get

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Speaker 4: you on for the past twelve months.

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Speaker 1: Believe it or not, what your story to share in

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Speaker 1: your words.

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Speaker 4: But as I said, before we get going, I'll let

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Speaker 4: you tell me a bit about yourself growing up.

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Speaker 1: Even though I know that what you're going to tell

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Speaker 1: me is still you think it's normal. It's not normal.

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Speaker 4: But the thing is, I just want to know you

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Speaker 4: as a person from when you can remember growing up,

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Speaker 4: but before it all happened, and if it was a

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Speaker 4: happy household, if it wasn't a happy household.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. I grew up in Japan. I was born

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Speaker 3: and raised there until I was seventeen, but I had

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Speaker 3: a very strange upbringing. My parents are missionaries. I'd say

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Speaker 3: they're professional con artists. Really. If you go on Google

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Speaker 3: and you type in the name of their church, it's

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Speaker 3: their house and they're fully funded by churches in the

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Speaker 3: US to live there full time.

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Speaker 1: To this day.

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Speaker 3: Still, so to this day they are still there. You

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Speaker 3: can go on Google Maps and it is there. If

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Speaker 3: you type in Scooy Baptist Church. It is a real location.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't have any reviews though. I was never a

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Speaker 3: reason in this place, but it's their house. Wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But I lived in that home since I was like

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Speaker 3: sixteen something like that. So they had a ministry until

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Speaker 3: I was about fifteen, but even that was you could

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Speaker 3: hardly say it was anything legitimate. My dad always had

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Speaker 3: anger issues and so there was a lot of fighting

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Speaker 3: that happened amongst church members and a lot of disagreements.

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Speaker 3: My home was not a happy home. I honestly don't

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Speaker 3: remember a time where my parents were not fighting, usually

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Speaker 3: about money or anything they could think of. There was

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Speaker 3: probably a fight that was going on. My parents were

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Speaker 3: both physically abusive. My dad was more physically abusive than

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Speaker 3: my mom, So it was not a safe place for me.

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Speaker 3: And when I was about nine years old, I became

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Speaker 3: unfortunately a victim of familial trafficking. And that's when a

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Speaker 3: family member uses another family member in exchange for good services,

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Speaker 3: that type of thing. And so I was exchanged out

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Speaker 3: and used for sexual favors, change for free piano lessons

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Speaker 3: for myself and my siblings.

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Speaker 1: So you have brothers and sisters, I do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I have an older sister and then I

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Speaker 3: have a younger brother. Growing up for us though we

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Speaker 3: were treated a little bit differently. It's also part of

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Speaker 3: very traditional Japanese culture where the first ward male is

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Speaker 3: kind of seen as god pretty much because they're the

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Speaker 3: name carrier, first boor Yeah. So my brother was always

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Speaker 3: treated differently than me and my sister, So he had

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Speaker 3: a lot more freedom growing up as a male and

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Speaker 3: then my sister and I we were dealt with a

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Speaker 3: little bit more harshly, a little bit more strict. But

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Speaker 3: being the middle child, I felt like I was targeted

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Speaker 3: a lot by the person who did end up sexually

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Speaker 3: abusing me, because one, they were able to abuse me

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Speaker 3: in front of my mom and not have any repercussions.

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Speaker 3: And two, they also knew very well my household dynamic.

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Speaker 3: They had brought me to a point where I trusted

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Speaker 3: them very much, so and so they knew about my dad's,

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Speaker 3: ay your issues. They knew about what I wasn't allowed

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Speaker 3: to do at home. They knew that I constantly lived

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Speaker 3: in fear of telling the truth to adults or sharing

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Speaker 3: how I was feeling. So they exploited that and I

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Speaker 3: ended up in this awful situation. But yeah, home was

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Speaker 3: not a happy place for me, nor a safe place.

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Speaker 4: Did did any of your brothers and sisters say the abuse?

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Speaker 4: Did you ever see the abuse to them or did

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Speaker 4: they see the abuse to you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So, as far as a physical abuse in the home,

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Speaker 3: that happened of all three of us. Actually, my brother

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Speaker 3: did receive physical abuse from my parents as well, so

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Speaker 3: we saw that happen to each other. The sexual abuse,

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Speaker 3: on the other hand, not so much so. My brother

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Speaker 3: had no idea, and I told my sister after we

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Speaker 3: were an adult, and we did end up talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Turns out the person did not sexually abuse her, but

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Speaker 3: I guess they made some comments about her, like just

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Speaker 3: said some really inappropriate things to her when she was

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Speaker 3: younger too as well, But they never touched her or anything,

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Speaker 3: at least from what she's told me. But home was

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Speaker 3: not a safe place for any of us. I remember

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Speaker 3: as a kid my parents had very interesting views when

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Speaker 3: it came to taking care of their kids and family.

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Speaker 3: And this happened multiple times where either I would have

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Speaker 3: an injury, or it happened a lot with my brother

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Speaker 3: because he would skateboard a lot, but he would have

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Speaker 3: an injury and my parents would either refuse to take

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Speaker 3: him to the doctor or wait for hours before they

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Speaker 3: would take him or myself to see a professional. I

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Speaker 3: remember one time I do believe this was an accident,

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Speaker 3: even though a lot of things were done intentionally in

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Speaker 3: my home. It was in the middle of winter and

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Speaker 3: we had a kerosene stove and my mom had a

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Speaker 3: kettle of boiling hot water on the kerosene stove and

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Speaker 3: my brother was sitting in front of it and he

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Speaker 3: was reading and she tripped over him and she dropped

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Speaker 3: the kettle of hot water on the back of his leg,

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Speaker 3: and it burned the whole back of his calf, and

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Speaker 3: it was pretty bad. And rather than taking him to

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Speaker 3: the hospital, and it was snowing that day, but it

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Speaker 3: wasn't to the point where they couldn't have taken him

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Speaker 3: to the doctor, the hospitals were open. Instead of taking

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Speaker 3: him to a hospital, my parents were worried about being

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Speaker 3: questioned for child abuse. My dad went to the pharmacy

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Speaker 3: and got gaus and bandages and took care of it

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Speaker 3: at home. Wow, so he was not treated. As far

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Speaker 3: as I'm aware. He still has that giant scar on

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Speaker 3: the back of his leg. And then there were multiple instances.

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Speaker 3: I actually have a scar on my lip right here

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Speaker 3: where I was playing hide and seek with some of

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Speaker 3: the kids at a church we used to rent a

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Speaker 3: building when I was really little, and one of the

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Speaker 3: older kids accidentally slammed the door in my face and

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Speaker 3: it ended up knocking me out. I passed out and

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Speaker 3: I woke up and I had a giant cut in

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Speaker 3: my face and it was a two story building, and

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Speaker 3: I went upstairs to go see my mom, and I

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Speaker 3: showed her and she immediately panicked because there was blood everywhere.

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Speaker 3: But my dad was going to have to preach that

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Speaker 3: afternoon since we were renting the building and our time

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Speaker 3: slot was in the afternoons, and so rather than taking

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Speaker 3: me to the hospital, they had me hide in a

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Speaker 3: storage closet and hold my face with the gauze. And

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Speaker 3: here I am like maybe ten at this point. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: I do have PTSD, by the way, and sometimes those

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Speaker 3: memories are a little bit out of order, unfortunately. But

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Speaker 3: I just remember leaning over on one of the shelves

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Speaker 3: and there was like books and all kinds of things

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Speaker 3: stacked up in there, and just feeling very sick because

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Speaker 3: there was no air ventilation, and just having to sit

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Speaker 3: there crying in this storage closet waiting for my dad

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Speaker 3: to be done. And then they finally took me to

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Speaker 3: the doctor. So there was at least a six hour

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Speaker 3: time gap from when that happened to when I went

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Speaker 3: to the doctor. The blood had already dried, and I

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Speaker 3: just remember the surgeon scolding my dad and telling him

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Speaker 3: like this is a girl, like she's going to grow

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Speaker 3: up with a giant gash on her face? Is this

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Speaker 3: how you want her to grow up? What kind of

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Speaker 3: adult are you to let a child suffer like this

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Speaker 3: for hours? Because he could tell that everything had kind

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Speaker 3: of like and so he did his best. But I mean,

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Speaker 3: I can't really see it. Most people can't if I

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Speaker 3: cover it up with makeup. But I just remember thinking, wow,

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Speaker 3: this is like the first time I've ever seen an

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Speaker 3: adult like confront my father for his bad behavior. And

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Speaker 3: I thought that was so cool. Oh my god, this

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Speaker 3: is a really cool guy.

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Speaker 4: But what about your relatives, Like, wouldn't they see injuries

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Speaker 4: to you or your or your bros and sisters? And

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Speaker 4: questioned your mom and dad.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's a great question. So with my American grandparents,

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Speaker 3: I rarely saw them because I grew up in Japan.

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Speaker 3: We didn't go to the States very often. But my

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Speaker 3: Japanese grandparents I would go to their house a lot.

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Speaker 3: But my dad fought with them quite often, and so

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Speaker 3: their relationship got estrange the older that I got, and

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Speaker 3: then he had off and on relationship with his sisters,

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Speaker 3: and so I remember going to their houses and having

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Speaker 3: a great time and just getting to be a kid.

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Speaker 3: But Also, I was very young, so I don't know

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Speaker 3: what they were fighting about. I do remember hearing the

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Speaker 3: phone call of my dad cutting off my grandmother. I

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Speaker 3: was probably like thirteen. I just remember him talking to

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Speaker 3: her on the phone and telling her she wasn't going

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Speaker 3: to be allowed to see her grandkids again. So I

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Speaker 3: don't know what the fight entirely was about, but I

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Speaker 3: remember being devastated because to me, I don't Again, I

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Speaker 3: don't know what happened. From what I understand, my dad

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Speaker 3: was also abused as a kid, but to me, it

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Speaker 3: was like, you're ripping my family away from me because

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Speaker 3: that was my safe place to go. I did have

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Speaker 3: an aunt, an American aunt she has since passed away,

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Speaker 3: who did confront my parents right before I went to college.

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Speaker 3: So I was Aniaxic at one point. I used to

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Speaker 3: know conversions very well into metrics. Unfortunately, I've been very

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Speaker 3: Americanized living here a little too long. But at one

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Speaker 3: point I was seventy two pounds as an eighteen year

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Speaker 3: old going on to college, and I remember my aunt

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Speaker 3: confronting my parents, telling them, you know, she's probably not

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Speaker 3: going to last much longer. I was in her backyard

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Speaker 3: and i'd walked inside. I just remember seeing her crying,

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Speaker 3: and she was very upset that my parents weren't doing

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Speaker 3: anything about it or taking me to go see a doctor.

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Speaker 3: So I do remember seeing her confront them. She didn't

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Speaker 3: really have much say, of course, as far as like

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Speaker 3: making other things happen, but they were very careful too

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Speaker 3: to make sure the adults were around wouldn't know what

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Speaker 3: was going on, or they kept us isolated from people

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Speaker 3: who would have probably said something, what did.

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Speaker 1: Your dad preach?

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Speaker 4: You know, it's not me like he would be preaching

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Speaker 4: to people, but then he comes home and abuses you

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Speaker 4: like it's very weird.

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Speaker 3: It is very weird, and that's something I've had to

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Speaker 3: come to peace with. I currently identify as a Christian,

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Speaker 3: and that wasn't something that I brought into my life

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Speaker 3: until many years later. It wasn't until I was about

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Speaker 3: twenty three that that happened. But growing up, it was

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Speaker 3: difficult for me because I would see my dad talking

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Speaker 3: in front of people. Now, granted, as time went on,

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Speaker 3: that crowd of people slowly started to dwindle down with

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Speaker 3: his anger issues, but I would see him talking to people,

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Speaker 3: counseling people, and then come home and do the exact

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Speaker 3: opposite of what he told other people to do, and

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Speaker 3: so that was difficult for me to see the way

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Speaker 3: he treated my mom. But I will say they did

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Speaker 3: use a lot of scripture to emphasize what they wanted

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Speaker 3: to teach. So, for example, there are passages in scripture

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Speaker 3: that talk about how the family dynamic should work right,

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Speaker 3: so it talks about husbands, wives, children, that type of thing.

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Speaker 3: But what they would fail to talk about was the

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Speaker 3: equality in that relationship. So there was always an exaggeration

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Speaker 3: of the female role, so a female should behave this

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Speaker 3: way or that way, but then there was no conversations

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Speaker 3: about what would be there afterwards. Like there's a specific

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Speaker 3: passage in scripture that talks about how parents are not

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Speaker 3: supposed to provoke their children to anger, meaning that if

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Speaker 3: you're going to parent a child, then you should have

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Speaker 3: your own emotions in check and not be disciplining a

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Speaker 3: child out of your own anger and your own rash decisions,

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Speaker 3: so that way you're raising them with love. That was

242
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Speaker 3: never talked about. They would only emphasize the fact that

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Speaker 3: a child was sobey the parents. So it was a

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Speaker 3: lot of like very disproportionate teaching when it came to

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Speaker 3: that type of thing, and then if I ever had

246
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Speaker 3: any questions like well, why does it say this, but

247
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Speaker 3: you guys say this, it was well, don't question the

248
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Speaker 3: pastor because they're the main authority. But pastor, of course

249
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Speaker 3: was my dad, so conveniently he was God and you

250
00:12:51,641 --> 00:12:54,201
Speaker 3: had to do whatever he said. So there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of manipulation to people thought we were weird.

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Speaker 4: Well, the thing is like, if I'm seeing about this family,

253
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Speaker 4: this family, oh, this is going on in family? You

254
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Speaker 4: see then you've got a bruise here, or your sister's

255
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Speaker 4: going to bruise there, or you don't look well, surely

256
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Speaker 4: people would talk and around.

257
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Speaker 3: I think my parents were very great at isolation, and

258
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Speaker 3: so I think that's why they had to like push

259
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Speaker 3: people away consistently that had any questions at all.

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Speaker 1: Is that why you were homeschooled?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

262
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Speaker 1: So it's a control fact.

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Speaker 3: Oh. Absolutely. They did their best to keep us illiterate.

264
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Speaker 3: So my homeschool program was in English. Obviously I lived

265
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Speaker 3: in Japan. They refused to teach us the Japanese language

266
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Speaker 3: on how to read and write, so I had to

267
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Speaker 3: teach myself that so that way I could be literate

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Speaker 3: in my own language. Obviously I was fluent in speaking,

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Speaker 3: but that wasn't something that I knew until later on,

270
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Speaker 3: where I taught myself. But yeah, they made sure that

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Speaker 3: we didn't know how to use a phone. We didn't

272
00:13:53,921 --> 00:13:56,481
Speaker 3: know how to use a train system. They kept things

273
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Speaker 3: very strict. Now, with my brother, after I left and

274
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Speaker 3: went to a very very intense religious school for college,

275
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Speaker 3: he was allowed to do a little bit more ride

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Speaker 3: the bus system and things like that because he was

277
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Speaker 3: a boy. But my sister and I, we did not

278
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Speaker 3: have any of those privileges.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever feel like running away?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, all the time.

281
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Speaker 1: You didn't try.

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Speaker 3: I think there was another thing that my parents were

283
00:14:23,521 --> 00:14:27,001
Speaker 3: great at too. Is this the fear tactic. So I

284
00:14:27,241 --> 00:14:30,281
Speaker 3: knew where my passport was at all times, but I

285
00:14:30,321 --> 00:14:31,801
Speaker 3: had no idea how to get to it, so it

286
00:14:31,881 --> 00:14:33,921
Speaker 3: was always in a safe by my parents' bed. Yeah,

287
00:14:34,121 --> 00:14:36,201
Speaker 3: I thought this through. It was in a safe by

288
00:14:36,241 --> 00:14:38,361
Speaker 3: my parents' bed. And because I didn't go to school,

289
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Speaker 3: I didn't have a school ID, so I didn't have

290
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Speaker 3: any other forms of identification. My mom actually still has

291
00:14:44,001 --> 00:14:47,001
Speaker 3: my legal birth certificate to this day. She never gave

292
00:14:47,041 --> 00:14:48,681
Speaker 3: it to me. I was not allowed to have that

293
00:14:48,761 --> 00:14:51,041
Speaker 3: even as an adult, so there was a lot of

294
00:14:51,121 --> 00:14:54,561
Speaker 3: restriction and control. The crazy thing though, is and I

295
00:14:54,721 --> 00:14:57,961
Speaker 3: recently remembered this, but we had bars on our windows

296
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Speaker 3: a lot one of the apartments that we rented when

297
00:15:00,921 --> 00:15:04,241
Speaker 3: I was like maybe eleven twelve years old. That was

298
00:15:04,321 --> 00:15:06,161
Speaker 3: part of the apartment, so it wasn't like they installed

299
00:15:06,201 --> 00:15:09,001
Speaker 3: them on there. But I remember always sleeping with a

300
00:15:09,041 --> 00:15:12,201
Speaker 3: screwdriver next to my bed because my mom would get

301
00:15:12,441 --> 00:15:15,641
Speaker 3: irrationally violent sometimes, and I think in the back of

302
00:15:15,721 --> 00:15:18,681
Speaker 3: my mind, I knew I had to have an escape

303
00:15:18,681 --> 00:15:20,641
Speaker 3: plan just in case my mom wanted to kill me

304
00:15:21,121 --> 00:15:23,681
Speaker 3: or my sister. I know that sounds like crazy, but

305
00:15:24,161 --> 00:15:26,641
Speaker 3: she laid her hands on my sister and me many times,

306
00:15:26,801 --> 00:15:28,721
Speaker 3: or she was like strangling us, and my dad would

307
00:15:28,761 --> 00:15:32,481
Speaker 3: do that too, and so I think, with that fear

308
00:15:32,641 --> 00:15:35,041
Speaker 3: in my head, I thought, Okay, well, if I have

309
00:15:35,121 --> 00:15:38,721
Speaker 3: a screwdriver next to my bed in a flashlight, if

310
00:15:38,761 --> 00:15:41,921
Speaker 3: something goes south, then I can escape because I'll have

311
00:15:42,121 --> 00:15:44,201
Speaker 3: a way to get this off of my window and

312
00:15:44,281 --> 00:15:46,601
Speaker 3: get out. I never tried it because I knew I

313
00:15:46,641 --> 00:15:48,841
Speaker 3: couldn't get very far. I didn't have access to enough

314
00:15:48,881 --> 00:15:50,521
Speaker 3: money to get anywhere. I didn't know how to use

315
00:15:50,521 --> 00:15:54,521
Speaker 3: a bus, use a phone, or even have identification, so

316
00:15:54,601 --> 00:15:56,881
Speaker 3: I was kind of trapped. And then as I got older,

317
00:15:57,281 --> 00:16:00,241
Speaker 3: I thought more about suicide as a way out. But

318
00:16:00,361 --> 00:16:02,281
Speaker 3: then I also thought about my brother because he was

319
00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:05,841
Speaker 3: younger than me, and if I had left, either died

320
00:16:05,881 --> 00:16:09,201
Speaker 3: by suicide or left by running away, and I left

321
00:16:09,241 --> 00:16:12,201
Speaker 3: him there, I knew that my parents' anger issues would

322
00:16:12,201 --> 00:16:15,721
Speaker 3: come out on him. So I couldn't do that, And

323
00:16:16,241 --> 00:16:18,721
Speaker 3: I think that's what really stopped me from doing any

324
00:16:18,761 --> 00:16:19,401
Speaker 3: of that stuff.

325
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Speaker 1: Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong.

326
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Speaker 4: So when you're in the house and you're sleep, was

327
00:16:24,921 --> 00:16:27,961
Speaker 4: the rules in that house set every day for you?

328
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Speaker 4: Like it you couldn't do even in your own house.

329
00:16:31,601 --> 00:16:34,081
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there were a lot of rules, very strict,

330
00:16:34,721 --> 00:16:37,361
Speaker 3: so it depended on how old we were. But we

331
00:16:37,481 --> 00:16:39,761
Speaker 3: had specific bedtimes where lights had to be out in

332
00:16:39,841 --> 00:16:42,401
Speaker 3: our room. And I understand that there are bedtimes for

333
00:16:42,481 --> 00:16:46,241
Speaker 3: young children like that. It's pretty common, or screen time limitations.

334
00:16:46,361 --> 00:16:48,801
Speaker 3: That type of thing is pretty common, But it wasn't

335
00:16:48,841 --> 00:16:51,401
Speaker 3: really like that. It was don't make too much noise

336
00:16:51,561 --> 00:16:53,281
Speaker 3: even if you go to the bathroom. If I woke

337
00:16:53,321 --> 00:16:54,881
Speaker 3: them up while I was going to the bathroom, I

338
00:16:54,921 --> 00:16:57,481
Speaker 3: could get in trouble just by being too loud with

339
00:16:57,601 --> 00:17:00,361
Speaker 3: opening the door or getting a drink of water. I

340
00:17:00,481 --> 00:17:02,161
Speaker 3: was not allowed to go get water in the middle

341
00:17:02,161 --> 00:17:05,361
Speaker 3: of the night because that would be too disturbing for them.

342
00:17:05,801 --> 00:17:08,081
Speaker 3: There were also specific times I was allowed to eat,

343
00:17:08,161 --> 00:17:10,321
Speaker 3: even as a teenager, so even if I was hungry,

344
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,041
Speaker 3: I was not allowed to eat unless it was a

345
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 3: specific time that they had set for me. And so

346
00:17:14,561 --> 00:17:18,841
Speaker 3: there were just so many strict rules and regulations. Everything

347
00:17:19,001 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 3: was regimented. From the time I got up to the

348
00:17:21,281 --> 00:17:23,400
Speaker 3: time I went to bed. There were rules in place

349
00:17:23,481 --> 00:17:25,921
Speaker 3: of what I was not allowed to do. I wasn't

350
00:17:25,921 --> 00:17:29,521
Speaker 3: even allowed to listen to specific music, which is very strange,

351
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 3: even Christian music. If it had drums in it, I

352
00:17:33,321 --> 00:17:35,121
Speaker 3: wasn't allowed to listen to it because that was too

353
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,321
Speaker 3: close to rock music according to my parents. My parents

354
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:43,481
Speaker 3: weren't too smart though, because when I was about fourteen

355
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,561
Speaker 3: or fifteen, we were homeschooled through an American program. But

356
00:17:47,681 --> 00:17:49,721
Speaker 3: basically what she would do is she would say, here's

357
00:17:49,721 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 3: the textbook, here's the answers, and she'd send in the tests.

358
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,360
Speaker 3: And that's how we were able to get certificates that

359
00:17:56,441 --> 00:17:59,321
Speaker 3: we were in school. And so in Japan the only

360
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 3: way you're allowed to homeschool is if one of your

361
00:18:02,241 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 3: parents is registered as an international person, would was my mom.

362
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,401
Speaker 3: Or two, you can convince the Japanese government that your

363
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 3: child is being bullied at school and so they need

364
00:18:11,561 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 3: a private tutor. They convinced the Japanese government that my

365
00:18:14,961 --> 00:18:19,361
Speaker 3: mom was my private tutor, and as a Japanese citizen,

366
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,481
Speaker 3: I was allowed to remain at home with these certificates

367
00:18:23,921 --> 00:18:26,801
Speaker 3: that my mom pretty much forged for us to have

368
00:18:27,041 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 3: straight a's in school to suffice the needs of my education. Now,

369
00:18:31,281 --> 00:18:33,321
Speaker 3: they were like, you know what, let's just throw a

370
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,201
Speaker 3: computer with full on internet access in her room at fourteen.

371
00:18:36,321 --> 00:18:38,721
Speaker 3: So they did that, and that's how I learned about

372
00:18:38,761 --> 00:18:41,521
Speaker 3: the outside world. And I was chatting online with god

373
00:18:41,681 --> 00:18:45,801
Speaker 3: knows who, probably older men from who knows where, But

374
00:18:46,001 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 3: here I am like fourteen, fifteen years old discovering the Internet,

375
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,761
Speaker 3: and my parents would have like specific times they would

376
00:18:51,761 --> 00:18:54,241
Speaker 3: plug it and unplug it, and I think it was

377
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,281
Speaker 3: just because they weren't technologically savvy. They didn't realize what

378
00:18:57,441 --> 00:18:59,721
Speaker 3: was out there, so they thought like innocent little me

379
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,360
Speaker 3: wouldn't know anything, right, So I was like chatting with

380
00:19:03,481 --> 00:19:06,561
Speaker 3: people in the States, and that's actually how I made

381
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 3: friends and stayed halfway sane. But they would send me music,

382
00:19:10,921 --> 00:19:13,640
Speaker 3: and that's how I fell in love with bands like

383
00:19:13,761 --> 00:19:17,521
Speaker 3: Green Day, Avril Levine, Like I still love those bands

384
00:19:17,561 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 3: to this day because those were my escape routes for

385
00:19:20,561 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 3: music and they had no idea. They probably thought I

386
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 3: was listening to the Bible or something.

387
00:19:26,761 --> 00:19:28,961
Speaker 1: But that's funny, though. Did you use on the internet?

388
00:19:29,561 --> 00:19:31,641
Speaker 1: Did you try to reach out the help?

389
00:19:32,241 --> 00:19:35,640
Speaker 3: No? Actually, so I didn't reach out for help because

390
00:19:35,681 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 3: I didn't know that I could. Here's another sad thing

391
00:19:39,041 --> 00:19:41,080
Speaker 3: is that I thought all families were like this. I

392
00:19:41,281 --> 00:19:45,521
Speaker 3: genuinely thought all parents were abusive, and I think the

393
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,281
Speaker 3: people that I had met when I sometimes we would

394
00:19:48,281 --> 00:19:50,801
Speaker 3: travel to the States, and when we would come to

395
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,561
Speaker 3: the States, it was a very interesting way of life.

396
00:19:54,681 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 3: So we would have a home base and it was

397
00:19:56,441 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 3: usually a house that someone generously offered to us for

398
00:19:59,801 --> 00:20:03,321
Speaker 3: very low rent, or an extra home someone had, or

399
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,681
Speaker 3: a mother in law suit or something we would stay

400
00:20:05,721 --> 00:20:07,961
Speaker 3: out of. So we would stay there and then we

401
00:20:08,001 --> 00:20:11,160
Speaker 3: would travel and go to all these different churches there

402
00:20:11,201 --> 00:20:14,001
Speaker 3: were some days we would start out and usually it

403
00:20:14,041 --> 00:20:16,801
Speaker 3: was North Carolina Virginia area because that's where my mom's from.

404
00:20:17,201 --> 00:20:19,281
Speaker 3: We would start out in one of those places and

405
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,041
Speaker 3: we would end up in Indiana traveling to a different

406
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:25,961
Speaker 3: church and having a different location that we would go

407
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:29,361
Speaker 3: to like every day, or if there was a missions conference,

408
00:20:29,441 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 3: we would do that. And so there wasn't a lot

409
00:20:31,281 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 3: of sleep for me either as a kid traveling in

410
00:20:34,001 --> 00:20:38,921
Speaker 3: these places. But I would meet other kids at these locations,

411
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 3: and a lot of them were experiencing the same thing

412
00:20:41,201 --> 00:20:44,801
Speaker 3: I was. So I think this further had that confirmation

413
00:20:45,001 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 3: bias or whatever you call it, of me thinking that

414
00:20:47,801 --> 00:20:50,401
Speaker 3: all families were abusive. So we would confide in each other,

415
00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:53,160
Speaker 3: Like I had a friend that I was super close with,

416
00:20:53,281 --> 00:20:55,361
Speaker 3: and she would tell me like if her dad got

417
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,121
Speaker 3: mad at her that day or something happened in the home,

418
00:20:58,241 --> 00:20:59,921
Speaker 3: and then I would share with her and be like, yeah,

419
00:20:59,961 --> 00:21:03,001
Speaker 3: this is happening. And I never explained about the sexual

420
00:21:03,001 --> 00:21:07,201
Speaker 3: abuse to anybody because I felt for that. But yeah,

421
00:21:07,281 --> 00:21:09,161
Speaker 3: I had other friends that I would talk to about

422
00:21:09,201 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 3: abuse that was going on, and I think we all

423
00:21:11,721 --> 00:21:12,921
Speaker 3: just thought it was normal.

424
00:21:13,681 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 4: When there's abuse a home was there abuse on violence

425
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 4: between your mom and dad.

426
00:21:19,001 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember many times where my mom

427
00:21:25,001 --> 00:21:27,921
Speaker 3: would throw things at my dad, or my dad would

428
00:21:27,921 --> 00:21:30,961
Speaker 3: throw things. My mom would break things, my mom would

429
00:21:30,961 --> 00:21:33,921
Speaker 3: put her hands on my dad. I don't really remember

430
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 3: a time my dad laid hands on my mom, it

431
00:21:38,241 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: could have happened. I do remember many times my mom

432
00:21:40,961 --> 00:21:43,521
Speaker 3: laying hands on my dad, though she would try to

433
00:21:43,681 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 3: like slap him or hit him. She would also pretend

434
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,001
Speaker 3: as if she was going to harm herself in front

435
00:21:50,001 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 3: of us, So she would have a knife out and

436
00:21:52,521 --> 00:21:55,481
Speaker 3: pretend like she was going to stab herself. I remember

437
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,001
Speaker 3: having nightmares as a little kid, being so scared my

438
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: mom was going to hurt herself, and so at a

439
00:22:01,761 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 3: very young age, I was constantly on eggshells, like just

440
00:22:04,521 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 3: being so scared, like, oh what if I do something

441
00:22:07,441 --> 00:22:09,721
Speaker 3: and I upset her and she hurts herself, Like that's

442
00:22:09,761 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: going to be my fault. And when you're that little,

443
00:22:12,321 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 3: like you don't know, like your parents are your parents,

444
00:22:15,801 --> 00:22:18,241
Speaker 3: and you still want their approval, you love them. I

445
00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 3: still love my parents genuinely, but I do I do.

446
00:22:22,521 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 3: I wish the best for them. I hope that, yeah,

447
00:22:27,561 --> 00:22:30,201
Speaker 3: I hope one day there's a turning point for them

448
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 3: where they look at their life you have.

449
00:22:32,761 --> 00:22:34,961
Speaker 4: There's not one bit of your body that's saying wants

450
00:22:35,001 --> 00:22:37,441
Speaker 4: to distance yourself from them at all after what they've.

451
00:22:37,281 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: Done to you.

452
00:22:38,961 --> 00:22:41,321
Speaker 3: Well, as far as distancing, yes, I want nothing to

453
00:22:41,441 --> 00:22:45,321
Speaker 3: do with them, absolutely. I quit communicating with them in

454
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,721
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, And you know, I was really struggling with

455
00:22:49,801 --> 00:22:53,761
Speaker 3: that because my father had gotten really sick and I

456
00:22:53,921 --> 00:22:56,281
Speaker 3: was in the States. Both my siblings were in the States,

457
00:22:56,321 --> 00:22:58,761
Speaker 3: and I was the only one that had like vacation

458
00:22:59,041 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: that I could take and leave my job and go

459
00:23:01,281 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: check on them. So I did that, and I noticed

460
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,681
Speaker 3: a lot of patterns that were still occurring, which ultimately

461
00:23:08,801 --> 00:23:10,521
Speaker 3: is what ended with my dad being in the hospital

462
00:23:10,561 --> 00:23:14,561
Speaker 3: with a bleeding ulcer. So my mom has a hoarding problem.

463
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,001
Speaker 3: And also it's very strange growing up because she would

464
00:23:19,041 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 3: spend her money on all kinds of little things like

465
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,481
Speaker 3: our grocery. Money would be spent on trinkets or things

466
00:23:23,481 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 3: that she wanted to buy for herself, but then when

467
00:23:26,001 --> 00:23:29,481
Speaker 3: it came down to our food, it was as cheap

468
00:23:29,521 --> 00:23:32,881
Speaker 3: as possible, as little as possible, and sometimes that meant

469
00:23:32,961 --> 00:23:36,641
Speaker 3: having expired things in the home, and so my dad's

470
00:23:36,961 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: consistent diet was preserved foods like instant noodles, And it

471
00:23:43,201 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 3: wasn't that they couldn't afford proper food, but that's what

472
00:23:45,761 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 3: she was buying to feed him, and so it was

473
00:23:48,481 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 3: to the point where it was making him sick, and

474
00:23:51,441 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 3: with all the stress and anger issues. When the doctor

475
00:23:54,481 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 3: saw him, he thought my dad had been a chainsmoker

476
00:23:56,681 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 3: for twenty years. My dad has not smoked since he

477
00:23:59,001 --> 00:24:02,321
Speaker 3: was probably thirty, and so was his health was that bad?

478
00:24:03,201 --> 00:24:07,281
Speaker 3: So I went over there, and unfortunately, later on after

479
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,761
Speaker 3: I came home and talked to my siblings and discussed

480
00:24:10,801 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: with them, probably like a home treatment plan for my

481
00:24:13,321 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 3: dad or possibly hiring someone to help them, we had

482
00:24:16,681 --> 00:24:19,041
Speaker 3: a skype call with them which ended in my dad

483
00:24:19,321 --> 00:24:21,081
Speaker 3: going off and saying that he didn't want to see

484
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 3: me anymore, he didn't need us in their lives all

485
00:24:23,561 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: this stuff, And so I had experienced that before with

486
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 3: my dad, where he had disowned me, and I knew

487
00:24:32,561 --> 00:24:35,961
Speaker 3: that I mentally could not take that again, just because

488
00:24:35,961 --> 00:24:39,521
Speaker 3: it was this constant roller coaster of like one day

489
00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,361
Speaker 3: you'll love me, one day you want, one day you want,

490
00:24:41,721 --> 00:24:44,561
Speaker 3: this back and forth that I'd experienced my entire life,

491
00:24:45,561 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 3: and at that point I was just ready to just

492
00:24:48,681 --> 00:24:51,801
Speaker 3: not fight back and let it go. So the last

493
00:24:51,801 --> 00:24:54,321
Speaker 3: words I ever said to my dad over the skype

494
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: call was I love you both, but I'm sorry I

495
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 3: can't be in this conversation anymore. I clicked off the

496
00:24:59,961 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: call and left. Now, through my therapy, I've learned that

497
00:25:04,321 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 3: it's okay to be angry, and I went through an

498
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:13,521
Speaker 3: entire phase of just unleashing that rage in healthy doses. Obviously,

499
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:17,121
Speaker 3: there was one point where my therapist was like, sometimes

500
00:25:17,201 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 3: you just gotta yell at the wall, and growing up

501
00:25:20,441 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 3: I wasn't allowed to be angry and I had already

502
00:25:23,281 --> 00:25:26,241
Speaker 3: dealt with I had some angry issues as an adult,

503
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,761
Speaker 3: like nothing that I like laid hands on somebody for

504
00:25:28,921 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: anything like that, but to the point it scared me

505
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: where I was like, I need to get help for this,

506
00:25:33,241 --> 00:25:35,521
Speaker 3: and I did so. I did see a counselor for

507
00:25:35,681 --> 00:25:40,121
Speaker 3: that earlier on because I was married at the time

508
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,801
Speaker 3: and I realized the way I was speaking to my

509
00:25:42,921 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: ex spouse was not okay by any means, and so

510
00:25:46,961 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 3: I chose to get help for that and decided, can

511
00:25:49,921 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 3: I just ask you.

512
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,161
Speaker 1: So I didn't actually know you were being married before,

513
00:25:53,281 --> 00:25:57,001
Speaker 1: But was that difficult for you? Being married?

514
00:25:57,281 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: And like, I know you're with someone now, but being

515
00:25:59,721 --> 00:26:03,801
Speaker 4: married and sort of like traumatized from what you went through?

516
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,041
Speaker 4: Was it difficult arguments or sexual stuff happening? Would you

517
00:26:09,321 --> 00:26:09,801
Speaker 4: clamb up?

518
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,521
Speaker 3: I would say it was both, because you know, I

519
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,801
Speaker 3: can't really speak on behalf of this person. They're not

520
00:26:15,961 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: in the room, and so I don't want to say anything.

521
00:26:19,001 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 3: It was not a healthy relationship. I can say that,

522
00:26:21,921 --> 00:26:24,521
Speaker 3: you know, I can take ownership for my part. That's

523
00:26:24,561 --> 00:26:26,361
Speaker 3: what I can do. And so what I can tell

524
00:26:26,441 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: you is that my upbringing definitely caused a lot of

525
00:26:29,761 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: toxicity and I could recognize that in myself now. The

526
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,161
Speaker 3: whole reason I went and saw a counselor was one

527
00:26:37,281 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 3: day my ex spouse went to playfully slap me on

528
00:26:41,521 --> 00:26:44,561
Speaker 3: the behind. Never had been an issue before, and all

529
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: of a sudden, I snapped and I turned around and

530
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: I started yelling at them. I told them, don't ever

531
00:26:49,761 --> 00:26:52,481
Speaker 3: touch me again, and I just got very angry. And

532
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,361
Speaker 3: that was never an issue before, and something just triggered

533
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,001
Speaker 3: in me. And it went on for months and months

534
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,481
Speaker 3: where I was scared of even being hugged or you know,

535
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,481
Speaker 3: any of that stuff was an instant trigger, and so

536
00:27:06,961 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 3: I did get help for it. And that's the first

537
00:27:09,521 --> 00:27:13,961
Speaker 3: time I ever ever in counseling discussed the sexual abuse.

538
00:27:14,561 --> 00:27:17,041
Speaker 3: And so I had suppressed it so far that I

539
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,001
Speaker 3: thought it was never going to affect me or bother

540
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,961
Speaker 3: me in my life. But when my counselor, who happened

541
00:27:21,961 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: to be my pastor, asked me like, hey, you know,

542
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: this is pretty common with survivors, and you're gonna have

543
00:27:28,481 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: to be honest with me, but have you ever been

544
00:27:30,481 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: sexually abused? And this tears. I had never. I told

545
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,001
Speaker 3: my partner at the time a little bit about it,

546
00:27:37,281 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: but never to that detail of what had happened, how

547
00:27:40,561 --> 00:27:44,961
Speaker 3: old I was, and so all these details started resurfacing,

548
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,881
Speaker 3: and so it did affect me for quite some time.

549
00:27:48,281 --> 00:27:50,041
Speaker 3: I did end up working through it, and I did

550
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,521
Speaker 3: end up getting to a point where I was comfortable

551
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 3: in my body and sexuality again. But yeah, it did

552
00:27:56,041 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: affect me for some time. With all of that, Can I.

553
00:28:00,321 --> 00:28:02,481
Speaker 1: Discuss who are you most scared of your moment?

554
00:28:02,521 --> 00:28:08,801
Speaker 3: Your dad as a child. Definitely my dad, just because

555
00:28:09,281 --> 00:28:11,281
Speaker 3: I never knew with him if he was going to

556
00:28:11,321 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: be happy or angry, or it just seemed to be sudden,

557
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,201
Speaker 3: and anything could set him off. A loud noise if

558
00:28:18,241 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 3: I was laughing too loud, or another time he punched

559
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: me because I wasn't smiling. There was all kinds of

560
00:28:24,281 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: things that could just set him off and upset him,

561
00:28:27,801 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 3: and I never knew what that was going to be,

562
00:28:29,521 --> 00:28:32,801
Speaker 3: and it was so unpredictable. So there was this constant

563
00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 3: fear of how he was going to react, and I

564
00:28:36,201 --> 00:28:40,121
Speaker 3: was always scared to tell him about things other adults

565
00:28:40,161 --> 00:28:42,521
Speaker 3: would do, whether it was the abuse that was happening.

566
00:28:42,561 --> 00:28:45,321
Speaker 3: Actually never told him because I was afraid of how

567
00:28:45,361 --> 00:28:49,201
Speaker 3: he would react. I also knew that that toxic dynamic

568
00:28:49,321 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: between him and my mother where you know, some days

569
00:28:53,681 --> 00:28:56,081
Speaker 3: I would hear him talk so negatively about her if

570
00:28:56,121 --> 00:28:58,321
Speaker 3: she wasn't in the room, he had nothing but awful

571
00:28:58,361 --> 00:29:02,841
Speaker 3: things to say. But the second I would tell him like, hey, Dad,

572
00:29:02,961 --> 00:29:05,081
Speaker 3: bom did this the other day, or if I I

573
00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:07,561
Speaker 3: felt courage enough to say, like my mom had done

574
00:29:07,601 --> 00:29:11,961
Speaker 3: something inappropriate or made me feel concerned, and if she

575
00:29:12,201 --> 00:29:14,681
Speaker 3: was in the room, he would automatically be on her side,

576
00:29:14,681 --> 00:29:16,601
Speaker 3: and they both turn against me. So I would never

577
00:29:16,841 --> 00:29:20,881
Speaker 3: know if he was this safe version that I could

578
00:29:20,921 --> 00:29:24,001
Speaker 3: talk to. But there is a part of me that

579
00:29:24,321 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: holds on and this is very hard for me, but

580
00:29:28,281 --> 00:29:31,401
Speaker 3: to some good memories that I have with my dad,

581
00:29:31,481 --> 00:29:36,121
Speaker 3: and I think this is what's allowed me to release

582
00:29:36,161 --> 00:29:40,281
Speaker 3: a lot of that anger. I actually have a picture

583
00:29:40,321 --> 00:29:43,761
Speaker 3: of my dad as a kid sitting on my entryway.

584
00:29:44,801 --> 00:29:47,401
Speaker 4: Do you sometimes wish that it didn't happen? Is that

585
00:29:47,441 --> 00:29:49,361
Speaker 4: what happens when you'll get in abuse that much that

586
00:29:49,441 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: you just think maybe it'll stop tomorrow, you know what

587
00:29:53,241 --> 00:29:54,841
Speaker 4: I mean, And you try and block it out. Because

588
00:29:55,321 --> 00:29:57,041
Speaker 4: when you turned around and said to me, like, I

589
00:29:57,161 --> 00:29:59,281
Speaker 4: seen a picture of you in hospital with your father

590
00:29:59,561 --> 00:30:02,361
Speaker 4: and I think it's twenty seventeen or something like that, yep,

591
00:30:02,761 --> 00:30:04,721
Speaker 4: and you'll sit and you'll sit and be beside him

592
00:30:05,201 --> 00:30:09,521
Speaker 4: now because of I know your story from what I've researched.

593
00:30:10,081 --> 00:30:13,961
Speaker 4: I was trying to get myself to gather how can

594
00:30:14,081 --> 00:30:18,841
Speaker 4: she sit there and be so loving to somebody who

595
00:30:19,081 --> 00:30:24,001
Speaker 4: has totally abused there for her entire life, not being

596
00:30:24,041 --> 00:30:26,681
Speaker 4: the father that she's wanted, And I look at myself.

597
00:30:26,721 --> 00:30:30,121
Speaker 4: I haven't spoken to my mother since two thousand and eight.

598
00:30:30,881 --> 00:30:33,841
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, She di only and I'm

599
00:30:33,881 --> 00:30:36,641
Speaker 4: a different person. I'm very strong headed, and you know

600
00:30:36,761 --> 00:30:39,521
Speaker 4: what she said to me by saying that I no

601
00:30:39,681 --> 00:30:43,881
Speaker 4: longer exist, I'm dead to her. So I'm very strong

602
00:30:43,921 --> 00:30:46,281
Speaker 4: where I won't go back, I won't ask to come back,

603
00:30:46,561 --> 00:30:49,481
Speaker 4: and I don't talk to my two stepsisters and my

604
00:30:49,561 --> 00:30:52,601
Speaker 4: two and my one step brother because of the same reason.

605
00:30:53,321 --> 00:30:55,921
Speaker 1: I wasn't abused. So I can't really put that into

606
00:30:55,961 --> 00:30:56,401
Speaker 1: an a take.

607
00:30:56,521 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 4: But I'm just trying to get my head round how

608
00:30:59,321 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 4: someone can abuse you to the extent but you can

609
00:31:03,081 --> 00:31:06,721
Speaker 4: still sit there next to them. You loved them, and

610
00:31:06,761 --> 00:31:08,281
Speaker 4: I've never done anything bad towards you.

611
00:31:09,641 --> 00:31:13,801
Speaker 3: I think this is where a couple things come into play.

612
00:31:14,201 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: One psychologically would be the trauma bond of that abuse.

613
00:31:19,521 --> 00:31:23,761
Speaker 3: Are also offering comfort, So, especially when this happens to

614
00:31:23,921 --> 00:31:28,081
Speaker 3: kids with my mom, I would see her, you know,

615
00:31:28,161 --> 00:31:30,041
Speaker 3: and I have. I have very different feelings towards my

616
00:31:30,121 --> 00:31:31,961
Speaker 3: mom than I do my dad, and I think it's

617
00:31:32,041 --> 00:31:34,241
Speaker 3: because I can empathize with my dad because I know

618
00:31:34,361 --> 00:31:35,561
Speaker 3: he was abused growing up.

619
00:31:36,361 --> 00:31:38,401
Speaker 4: Well, hold on, is that an excuse You're trying to

620
00:31:38,521 --> 00:31:40,801
Speaker 4: say it to your dad's it Is that an excuse?

621
00:31:40,881 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: Great question, that's a great question. I wonder if it is.

622
00:31:44,761 --> 00:31:47,001
Speaker 3: Sometimes I wonder if there's a part of me that

623
00:31:47,161 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 3: tries to justify his behavior. If I'm being fully honest,

624
00:31:51,641 --> 00:31:55,121
Speaker 3: none of what he did was okay at all. But

625
00:31:55,681 --> 00:31:59,161
Speaker 3: I guess it is that trauma bond of especially as

626
00:31:59,201 --> 00:32:02,081
Speaker 3: a kid, when you have you know your dad and

627
00:32:02,161 --> 00:32:05,241
Speaker 3: you do have some good memories, and then there's it's

628
00:32:05,321 --> 00:32:07,881
Speaker 3: taken away. And I just remember my dad being a

629
00:32:07,961 --> 00:32:11,361
Speaker 3: totally different person when my mom wasn't around, Like when

630
00:32:11,441 --> 00:32:15,121
Speaker 3: my grandmother in the US passed away, she came to

631
00:32:15,161 --> 00:32:17,641
Speaker 3: the States for about four weeks and I had the

632
00:32:17,801 --> 00:32:20,881
Speaker 3: best time with my dad. It's like a totally different person.

633
00:32:21,481 --> 00:32:24,201
Speaker 3: I just remember we would play in the house, he'd

634
00:32:24,241 --> 00:32:26,961
Speaker 3: take us to the park, and the second she came home,

635
00:32:27,081 --> 00:32:29,681
Speaker 3: the fighting started again. And so those are really early

636
00:32:29,841 --> 00:32:34,001
Speaker 3: memories for me. I think another thing I've come to

637
00:32:34,121 --> 00:32:38,801
Speaker 3: peace with is knowing that I will most likely never

638
00:32:38,961 --> 00:32:43,481
Speaker 3: have a relationship with my parents. Ever. They're older, they're

639
00:32:43,521 --> 00:32:46,281
Speaker 3: set in their ways. I don't really see them changing

640
00:32:46,921 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 3: unless there's an act of God or for whatever reason.

641
00:32:49,881 --> 00:32:52,841
Speaker 3: And I hope this happens before they pass but there's

642
00:32:52,921 --> 00:32:55,721
Speaker 3: some reason where they're like, you know what, we have

643
00:32:55,921 --> 00:32:59,681
Speaker 3: not had very good standards for ourselves. We have not

644
00:32:59,961 --> 00:33:02,921
Speaker 3: been good people, and you know, this is where it ends,

645
00:33:03,001 --> 00:33:05,481
Speaker 3: and this is where we decide the last few years

646
00:33:05,521 --> 00:33:08,081
Speaker 3: we're going to do better and maybe seek help or

647
00:33:08,161 --> 00:33:11,241
Speaker 3: counseling or something. If they did that, you know, I

648
00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:13,201
Speaker 3: don't know if I would let them back into my life,

649
00:33:13,281 --> 00:33:15,881
Speaker 3: but I'd be very happy for them. But at the

650
00:33:15,921 --> 00:33:18,481
Speaker 3: same time, and I know everyone deals with this differently,

651
00:33:18,641 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: and so I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

652
00:33:21,601 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 3: For some people, it makes sense to be angry. It

653
00:33:24,361 --> 00:33:29,441
Speaker 3: makes sense to hold that against someone and remind themselves like, hey,

654
00:33:29,481 --> 00:33:31,761
Speaker 3: this is why I'm not anywhere near these guys.

655
00:33:32,521 --> 00:33:35,081
Speaker 1: Do you think you're waiting or you'd like them to

656
00:33:35,201 --> 00:33:37,641
Speaker 1: stand up and say what they've done?

657
00:33:38,161 --> 00:33:40,921
Speaker 4: Because I know I apologies, not that I've used this

658
00:33:41,041 --> 00:33:43,041
Speaker 4: usually say sorry, sorry, sorry so many times.

659
00:33:43,161 --> 00:33:45,321
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, but are you but are you

660
00:33:45,441 --> 00:33:48,521
Speaker 1: waiting for them to stand up and go this? Yes,

661
00:33:48,641 --> 00:33:50,681
Speaker 1: I know I did this wrong, I shouldn't have done it.

662
00:33:50,961 --> 00:33:51,801
Speaker 1: Is that what you're waiting for?

663
00:33:51,961 --> 00:33:56,321
Speaker 3: Do you think I don't think that's realistic? To be honest,

664
00:33:56,361 --> 00:34:00,361
Speaker 3: with you. I don't think they are capable of that.

665
00:34:01,161 --> 00:34:04,961
Speaker 3: It's kind of like a wouldn't it be nice type feeling,

666
00:34:05,481 --> 00:34:07,601
Speaker 3: But I don't. I don't see that happening.

667
00:34:07,961 --> 00:34:09,601
Speaker 1: Okay, here's here's another question for you.

668
00:34:10,081 --> 00:34:13,041
Speaker 4: Sure you're with your partner, now you decide to have kids,

669
00:34:14,441 --> 00:34:16,921
Speaker 4: would you let your kid go near your parents?

670
00:34:17,521 --> 00:34:24,801
Speaker 3: No? Absolutely not. No, they would probably not ever know

671
00:34:24,921 --> 00:34:28,641
Speaker 3: about them ever. Yeah, absolutely not. I would not want

672
00:34:28,641 --> 00:34:30,081
Speaker 3: any child near my parents.

673
00:34:30,601 --> 00:34:33,601
Speaker 1: So then that answers the question before you know what

674
00:34:33,641 --> 00:34:35,881
Speaker 1: I mean, Jesus, you know what I mean?

675
00:34:35,961 --> 00:34:38,201
Speaker 4: Like that, when you put something that really you love

676
00:34:38,441 --> 00:34:40,081
Speaker 4: in front of you, like and you're going to be

677
00:34:40,321 --> 00:34:42,601
Speaker 4: a protector of your child and your the kids that

678
00:34:42,681 --> 00:34:43,641
Speaker 4: you have, you've just.

679
00:34:43,681 --> 00:34:47,321
Speaker 1: Answered your question. You know what I mean? You wouldn't

680
00:34:47,361 --> 00:34:50,041
Speaker 1: let them anywhere near your parents? No? Exactly.

681
00:34:51,041 --> 00:34:53,561
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's why it was kind of a big gobsmack

682
00:34:53,641 --> 00:34:56,041
Speaker 4: that And I know it's parents and it's not you know,

683
00:34:56,161 --> 00:34:57,601
Speaker 4: I know, put it this right.

684
00:34:57,841 --> 00:34:58,121
Speaker 3: I am.

685
00:34:58,201 --> 00:34:58,761
Speaker 1: I'm very strong.

686
00:34:59,081 --> 00:35:01,281
Speaker 4: I don't miss my mom because you know they If

687
00:35:01,401 --> 00:35:04,401
Speaker 4: if somebody can say that to their own child, then

688
00:35:04,801 --> 00:35:05,521
Speaker 4: that's the real you.

689
00:35:05,641 --> 00:35:07,801
Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna I will change for you.

690
00:35:08,161 --> 00:35:10,121
Speaker 4: But what I didn't get was, like I saw I

691
00:35:10,161 --> 00:35:12,801
Speaker 4: was trying to get my heads around for your father

692
00:35:13,001 --> 00:35:16,001
Speaker 4: to abuse you like he did and your mother, but

693
00:35:16,121 --> 00:35:18,801
Speaker 4: your mostly father because it was the pitch and you

694
00:35:18,921 --> 00:35:19,321
Speaker 4: were smile.

695
00:35:19,401 --> 00:35:21,161
Speaker 1: I was like, I just know I couldn't do that.

696
00:35:21,721 --> 00:35:22,361
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it.

697
00:35:22,681 --> 00:35:25,921
Speaker 1: But then again, it's like, you know, your people are different,

698
00:35:26,001 --> 00:35:26,481
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

699
00:35:26,561 --> 00:35:29,401
Speaker 4: And as I said, you're probably sometimes you hope that

700
00:35:29,681 --> 00:35:32,521
Speaker 4: things could have been different. And growing up as a child,

701
00:35:33,041 --> 00:35:34,761
Speaker 4: your daddy's gil, you were hoping that you would be

702
00:35:34,841 --> 00:35:37,041
Speaker 4: Daddy's guil, you know what I mean, Doddy's little girl.

703
00:35:37,801 --> 00:35:41,041
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had hoped that. I think I saw that

704
00:35:41,241 --> 00:35:43,881
Speaker 3: with my sister and my dad. So my sister was

705
00:35:43,881 --> 00:35:47,201
Speaker 3: always his favorite, and he hated me, or I thought

706
00:35:47,241 --> 00:35:50,481
Speaker 3: he did growing up. It was it was very strange

707
00:35:50,521 --> 00:35:53,321
Speaker 3: because he hated his middle sister, and because I was

708
00:35:53,401 --> 00:35:55,641
Speaker 3: a middle daughter, he often compared me to her as

709
00:35:55,681 --> 00:35:58,001
Speaker 3: a young kid, which is not fair in any way,

710
00:35:58,401 --> 00:36:00,121
Speaker 3: but he would often say, oh, you're going to grow

711
00:36:00,201 --> 00:36:02,681
Speaker 3: up to be like Kumiko, which is his sister, And

712
00:36:03,481 --> 00:36:05,881
Speaker 3: I'm just like a little kid wondering what that's supposed

713
00:36:05,881 --> 00:36:08,481
Speaker 3: to mean. And then as I got older, I realized

714
00:36:08,761 --> 00:36:12,001
Speaker 3: he hated her, and a lot of that physical abuse

715
00:36:12,121 --> 00:36:14,401
Speaker 3: was taken out on me. Sometimes I wonder if he

716
00:36:14,521 --> 00:36:16,921
Speaker 3: was thinking about his sister and he was just so

717
00:36:17,201 --> 00:36:20,081
Speaker 3: angry and wrapped up in his own thoughts. And they

718
00:36:20,161 --> 00:36:22,401
Speaker 3: say that when you are in that much rage, you

719
00:36:22,481 --> 00:36:25,561
Speaker 3: are in a state of temporary insanity. And so you

720
00:36:25,761 --> 00:36:30,161
Speaker 3: have this clinically insane person beating a child, and God

721
00:36:30,241 --> 00:36:33,041
Speaker 3: knows what's going through their head. And so I think

722
00:36:33,081 --> 00:36:35,521
Speaker 3: that was another reason why when I even noticed a

723
00:36:35,561 --> 00:36:38,841
Speaker 3: glimpse of that anger within myself, I wanted to get help,

724
00:36:38,921 --> 00:36:43,081
Speaker 3: because I've been the recipient of that face looking at

725
00:36:43,161 --> 00:36:49,681
Speaker 3: me where nobody's home, nobody's there. It's just rage, and

726
00:36:50,241 --> 00:36:54,761
Speaker 3: you have someone who is clearly unwell harming you. When

727
00:36:54,801 --> 00:36:58,361
Speaker 3: you receive that as a young kid, you have two choices.

728
00:36:58,961 --> 00:37:01,161
Speaker 3: You're either going to repeat that cycle because that's all

729
00:37:01,241 --> 00:37:05,321
Speaker 3: you know and I was headed that way, or you

730
00:37:05,481 --> 00:37:07,321
Speaker 3: look at it dead in the face and you say,

731
00:37:07,441 --> 00:37:10,401
Speaker 3: I will go to Helen back whatever it takes to

732
00:37:10,521 --> 00:37:12,881
Speaker 3: make sure that it ends with me and I'm not

733
00:37:13,041 --> 00:37:16,681
Speaker 3: doing this to another human being. And so yeah, I

734
00:37:17,121 --> 00:37:20,281
Speaker 3: look back at all that, and granted, since that photo

735
00:37:20,401 --> 00:37:23,441
Speaker 3: that you saw. There's been a lot of work that

736
00:37:23,521 --> 00:37:27,081
Speaker 3: I had to do of letting go, and I you know,

737
00:37:27,281 --> 00:37:30,241
Speaker 3: ended up in a very dark place after that happened,

738
00:37:30,401 --> 00:37:35,401
Speaker 3: just this kind of this dissociation between reality of like, Okay, hey,

739
00:37:35,481 --> 00:37:37,281
Speaker 3: you know what it saw me. Your parents don't want you.

740
00:37:38,121 --> 00:37:41,361
Speaker 3: That's the reality. Your parents have never treated you, right that,

741
00:37:41,641 --> 00:37:46,521
Speaker 3: and then this young child version of me hoping waiting

742
00:37:46,641 --> 00:37:49,241
Speaker 3: with open arms like is today going to be the day?

743
00:37:49,481 --> 00:37:53,801
Speaker 3: Like there's this disconnect, and it ended up landing me

744
00:37:53,961 --> 00:37:57,721
Speaker 3: in a psychiatric facility where I was a threat to

745
00:37:57,801 --> 00:38:02,401
Speaker 3: myself because I was suicidal and unable to cope with

746
00:38:02,481 --> 00:38:05,761
Speaker 3: how much pain I was in. And so that point,

747
00:38:06,441 --> 00:38:08,201
Speaker 3: I've had to do a lot of deep healing. I'm

748
00:38:08,201 --> 00:38:10,481
Speaker 3: still in therapy. I've had to do a lot of

749
00:38:10,521 --> 00:38:13,521
Speaker 3: deep healing, a lot of work. You know. There have

750
00:38:13,601 --> 00:38:16,041
Speaker 3: been times where people have told me like, hey, I

751
00:38:16,121 --> 00:38:18,841
Speaker 3: think your parents are coming to the States on X

752
00:38:18,961 --> 00:38:21,401
Speaker 3: y Z date. And my answer to them is I'm

753
00:38:21,441 --> 00:38:25,241
Speaker 3: not going to see them because I know with the

754
00:38:25,361 --> 00:38:27,841
Speaker 3: healing that I've had to do, regardless of if I

755
00:38:28,201 --> 00:38:31,241
Speaker 3: wish no ill towards them or would not do anything

756
00:38:31,321 --> 00:38:34,881
Speaker 3: to harm them from my side, There's just no reason,

757
00:38:35,361 --> 00:38:38,601
Speaker 3: there's no conversation to be had at this point. You know,

758
00:38:38,841 --> 00:38:41,481
Speaker 3: I've found my new family, which are people that I've

759
00:38:41,521 --> 00:38:43,401
Speaker 3: chose to be in my life, and they've been more

760
00:38:43,441 --> 00:38:46,041
Speaker 3: family to me than anyone ever has been blood related.

761
00:38:46,921 --> 00:38:49,801
Speaker 1: So what's the worst thing that you did to you?

762
00:38:52,441 --> 00:38:53,321
Speaker 3: How much time do we have that.

763
00:38:56,201 --> 00:38:57,921
Speaker 1: What really scared you at that time?

764
00:38:58,201 --> 00:38:58,521
Speaker 3: What? Like?

765
00:38:58,601 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 4: You know, I did read on one of the old

766
00:39:00,481 --> 00:39:04,201
Speaker 4: posts that he used to put himself on your neck

767
00:39:04,321 --> 00:39:09,481
Speaker 4: to what you guess for a Yeah, uh, that.

768
00:39:09,601 --> 00:39:12,041
Speaker 3: Was a rough one. Yeah. He liked to kick us

769
00:39:12,081 --> 00:39:15,041
Speaker 3: to the ground and then just put his foot on

770
00:39:15,121 --> 00:39:19,001
Speaker 3: our neck and he'd call us bugs and then he'd

771
00:39:19,081 --> 00:39:26,361
Speaker 3: laugh and we'd be gasping for air, and it was humiliating, honestly.

772
00:39:26,841 --> 00:39:31,281
Speaker 3: I just I think now that I look back, you know,

773
00:39:31,401 --> 00:39:34,201
Speaker 3: he never brought us to the point where we passed out. Yeah,

774
00:39:34,401 --> 00:39:37,201
Speaker 3: so I know I wouldn't have died, But calling someone

775
00:39:37,241 --> 00:39:40,001
Speaker 3: an insect and kicking them to the floor telling them

776
00:39:40,081 --> 00:39:44,041
Speaker 3: that they're disposable, no human being should ever be spoken

777
00:39:44,081 --> 00:39:44,481
Speaker 3: in that way.

778
00:39:45,081 --> 00:39:46,881
Speaker 1: When you were talking about he would he would hate you,

779
00:39:47,561 --> 00:39:48,801
Speaker 1: We told him like a full hit.

780
00:39:49,601 --> 00:39:52,921
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, closed fist, a slap to the face,

781
00:39:53,201 --> 00:39:57,361
Speaker 3: or kick with his feet that was pretty common. Being

782
00:39:57,441 --> 00:39:59,641
Speaker 3: kicked to the ground and being stepped on the neck

783
00:39:59,681 --> 00:40:03,121
Speaker 3: that was pretty traumatizing. But I think for me the

784
00:40:03,321 --> 00:40:07,041
Speaker 3: worst of it was seeing him abuse my brother.

785
00:40:07,721 --> 00:40:11,201
Speaker 1: I'm not being able to do anything. Yeah, did your

786
00:40:11,201 --> 00:40:12,321
Speaker 1: brother ever try to fight.

787
00:40:12,241 --> 00:40:17,241
Speaker 3: By you would fight back for me sometimes, Yeah, So

788
00:40:17,321 --> 00:40:20,521
Speaker 3: that that was very hard for me to watch growing up.

789
00:40:21,601 --> 00:40:23,081
Speaker 3: Oh I'm not a happy home.

790
00:40:25,881 --> 00:40:27,921
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, you need to take a minute. You're okay?

791
00:40:28,841 --> 00:40:31,281
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like that was intense and I just want to

792
00:40:31,321 --> 00:40:34,761
Speaker 4: now move on to now where your your kind of mother.

793
00:40:35,241 --> 00:40:36,601
Speaker 4: This is another thing I was trying to get around

794
00:40:36,601 --> 00:40:38,961
Speaker 4: because but you answered it for me before with the

795
00:40:39,281 --> 00:40:41,761
Speaker 4: free lessons to be a pianist and all like that.

796
00:40:41,921 --> 00:40:44,361
Speaker 4: But I thought, surely there's got to be some motive

797
00:40:44,441 --> 00:40:48,841
Speaker 4: that she's doing this to gain herself. But really it

798
00:40:49,401 --> 00:40:52,041
Speaker 4: wasn't really, it was it was petty what she was

799
00:40:52,601 --> 00:40:56,601
Speaker 4: asking for to make you go through yes and no.

800
00:40:56,961 --> 00:41:01,001
Speaker 3: So with my family, here's where things get complicated. With

801
00:41:01,201 --> 00:41:06,121
Speaker 3: my mom, there is always an ulterior motive. Always, whether

802
00:41:06,201 --> 00:41:10,601
Speaker 3: it's music lessons or keeping us from going to school,

803
00:41:11,161 --> 00:41:15,521
Speaker 3: there was always an ulterior motive and the piano lessons

804
00:41:15,641 --> 00:41:18,281
Speaker 3: were actually in order for them to get a paycheck.

805
00:41:19,001 --> 00:41:22,081
Speaker 3: So whenever we would travel to the US, we were

806
00:41:22,121 --> 00:41:25,521
Speaker 3: their circus act. So all three of us would play

807
00:41:25,601 --> 00:41:29,921
Speaker 3: instruments and we were the opening act basically, So we

808
00:41:29,961 --> 00:41:32,201
Speaker 3: would get up on stage in front of these people,

809
00:41:32,361 --> 00:41:35,121
Speaker 3: sometimes thousands of people out of church, and all three

810
00:41:35,161 --> 00:41:39,041
Speaker 3: of us would play instruments together piano, My sister played

811
00:41:39,041 --> 00:41:41,081
Speaker 3: the flute, I played the violin. At one point my

812
00:41:41,161 --> 00:41:45,721
Speaker 3: brother played the guitar. So music lessons were crucial and

813
00:41:46,121 --> 00:41:49,641
Speaker 3: they were more important than education in our home. We

814
00:41:49,721 --> 00:41:52,321
Speaker 3: would practice anywhere from two to four hours a day

815
00:41:52,961 --> 00:41:56,041
Speaker 3: on instruments just so we could get everything in synchrony

816
00:41:56,121 --> 00:41:58,641
Speaker 3: in perfect for when we would perform in the States.

817
00:41:59,201 --> 00:42:02,881
Speaker 3: So during those usually it was anywhere from six months

818
00:42:02,921 --> 00:42:06,081
Speaker 3: to two years. So we would to the US maybe

819
00:42:06,201 --> 00:42:08,081
Speaker 3: like every three to five year or something like that,

820
00:42:08,161 --> 00:42:09,801
Speaker 3: and then we would stay for that length of time.

821
00:42:10,201 --> 00:42:12,401
Speaker 3: We would be traveling to different churches in different cities

822
00:42:12,481 --> 00:42:15,401
Speaker 3: every night, and so sometimes we would be in one

823
00:42:15,441 --> 00:42:17,281
Speaker 3: city on a Sunday morning and Sunday night would be

824
00:42:17,321 --> 00:42:19,321
Speaker 3: in another city. But it was the same thing over

825
00:42:19,401 --> 00:42:22,241
Speaker 3: and over and over again. So we had like five

826
00:42:22,321 --> 00:42:24,881
Speaker 3: to six songs that we had to know perfectly, so

827
00:42:25,001 --> 00:42:28,521
Speaker 3: we would perform those and then my dad would get introduced.

828
00:42:28,561 --> 00:42:30,881
Speaker 3: He'd go up and he would speak, and then we

829
00:42:30,921 --> 00:42:33,281
Speaker 3: would close out with a song and then that would

830
00:42:33,281 --> 00:42:38,081
Speaker 3: be the end. And usually the general consensus was that

831
00:42:38,241 --> 00:42:42,601
Speaker 3: if a family can be able to raise children that disciplined,

832
00:42:42,961 --> 00:42:48,001
Speaker 3: then there must be love, education, and well provided family

833
00:42:48,041 --> 00:42:50,481
Speaker 3: members in the home. Right, So that was what people

834
00:42:50,561 --> 00:42:53,161
Speaker 3: were led to believe. They thought, because we had these

835
00:42:53,241 --> 00:42:57,721
Speaker 3: things going for us, that our parents looked out for us. Well, well,

836
00:42:58,001 --> 00:43:00,841
Speaker 3: actually it was the complete opposite. But there was an

837
00:43:00,921 --> 00:43:03,961
Speaker 3: ulterior motive for my mom having a state music lessons.

838
00:43:04,121 --> 00:43:09,121
Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, so I told me through the first time

839
00:43:10,561 --> 00:43:13,881
Speaker 4: she actually told the pianists, actually tell me about the

840
00:43:13,921 --> 00:43:14,561
Speaker 4: pianist fast.

841
00:43:15,721 --> 00:43:18,641
Speaker 3: It was very confusing for me. I met this person

842
00:43:18,681 --> 00:43:21,321
Speaker 3: when I was very young. The sexual abuse started when

843
00:43:21,321 --> 00:43:25,041
Speaker 3: I was about nine. I do have PTSD, so memories

844
00:43:25,161 --> 00:43:28,121
Speaker 3: kind of are like this sometimes, like I can tell

845
00:43:28,201 --> 00:43:32,241
Speaker 3: you in full detail what happened at that person's apartment

846
00:43:32,641 --> 00:43:36,041
Speaker 3: from the time I got there, some blank spots to

847
00:43:36,561 --> 00:43:39,841
Speaker 3: how I felt, and then a liquor store light flashing

848
00:43:39,921 --> 00:43:42,201
Speaker 3: on the way home and then feeling sick and wanting

849
00:43:42,241 --> 00:43:44,041
Speaker 3: to throw up the next day. I can tell you

850
00:43:44,161 --> 00:43:48,681
Speaker 3: all that, but I can't tell you like random memories

851
00:43:48,921 --> 00:43:51,801
Speaker 3: of did I have a good day if I was

852
00:43:51,841 --> 00:43:54,521
Speaker 3: allowed to go to a friend's house one day, or

853
00:43:55,041 --> 00:43:57,881
Speaker 3: like I can't even tell you, like what my favorite

854
00:43:57,921 --> 00:44:01,401
Speaker 3: movie was in that timeframe, Like I don't know. But

855
00:44:01,881 --> 00:44:04,161
Speaker 3: the sexual abuse started when I was about nine years old.

856
00:44:04,201 --> 00:44:07,361
Speaker 3: This person started going to our church. So they were married.

857
00:44:07,521 --> 00:44:09,921
Speaker 3: It was a husband and wife couple, and they had

858
00:44:10,001 --> 00:44:14,081
Speaker 3: moved from South Korea to Japan. And there were a

859
00:44:14,161 --> 00:44:18,161
Speaker 3: lot of missing pieces to their story, one being that,

860
00:44:19,001 --> 00:44:21,681
Speaker 3: you know, South Korea is a very advanced country. There

861
00:44:21,761 --> 00:44:25,761
Speaker 3: was no need for her to move to Japan and

862
00:44:26,441 --> 00:44:28,241
Speaker 3: not be able to go back. There should have been

863
00:44:28,281 --> 00:44:30,841
Speaker 3: no reason for that. And to leave a child, so

864
00:44:31,001 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: she had an infant that she was not allowed to see.

865
00:44:33,521 --> 00:44:35,761
Speaker 3: I don't know why. That should have been another red

866
00:44:35,841 --> 00:44:38,561
Speaker 3: flag too, that they had to leave in Korea, and

867
00:44:38,641 --> 00:44:41,161
Speaker 3: they left with their husband, came to Japan. They were

868
00:44:41,241 --> 00:44:43,921
Speaker 3: working in like the music industry for a while, their

869
00:44:43,961 --> 00:44:46,241
Speaker 3: vs expyer they stayed and then they were working in

870
00:44:46,281 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 3: a factory and somehow it ended up at our church,

871
00:44:49,081 --> 00:44:52,001
Speaker 3: and so there were a lot of like questionable things.

872
00:44:52,321 --> 00:44:55,321
Speaker 3: And they also came from a very well established family

873
00:44:55,761 --> 00:44:58,841
Speaker 3: with money, so there was no need for them to

874
00:44:59,001 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: struggle in another country and leave their child back home

875
00:45:03,081 --> 00:45:05,841
Speaker 3: unless there was a legal reason they could not go back.

876
00:45:06,561 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 3: So I never understood all of that. I was never

877
00:45:09,521 --> 00:45:12,081
Speaker 3: told the full story, but there's a lot of question

878
00:45:12,241 --> 00:45:15,801
Speaker 3: marks with that as to why. So that was the

879
00:45:15,921 --> 00:45:19,201
Speaker 3: person that started going to our church. Then they made

880
00:45:19,281 --> 00:45:22,841
Speaker 3: friends with everybody, and my parents had somewhat of a

881
00:45:22,961 --> 00:45:26,641
Speaker 3: ministry until I was fifteen. So as things progressed my

882
00:45:26,721 --> 00:45:30,241
Speaker 3: dad's angry issues got worse, people just started leaving right

883
00:45:30,321 --> 00:45:32,641
Speaker 3: and left. But at that point, when I was about nine,

884
00:45:32,721 --> 00:45:35,601
Speaker 3: there were several people still attending, so they became the

885
00:45:35,681 --> 00:45:39,761
Speaker 3: church pianist, and their husband was also at the church

886
00:45:39,841 --> 00:45:43,601
Speaker 3: too as well. Now, behind closed doors, there were a

887
00:45:43,681 --> 00:45:49,081
Speaker 3: lot of things happening with that person that they probably

888
00:45:49,801 --> 00:45:53,081
Speaker 3: couldn't express publicly. And so again I want to make

889
00:45:53,121 --> 00:45:56,681
Speaker 3: this very clear, I am pro LGBTQ. Like, if this

890
00:45:56,921 --> 00:45:59,401
Speaker 3: is how you identify, this is not me saying that

891
00:45:59,521 --> 00:46:01,601
Speaker 3: everyone is like this. I do not want anyone to

892
00:46:01,641 --> 00:46:05,521
Speaker 3: get that impression. But this person was definitely closed in

893
00:46:05,601 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: some way. I don't know what they were identifying as,

894
00:46:08,561 --> 00:46:11,241
Speaker 3: but I do remember them having a girlfriend that they

895
00:46:11,281 --> 00:46:14,761
Speaker 3: would hide. And I knew about this girlfriend because I

896
00:46:15,081 --> 00:46:17,161
Speaker 3: was once at their apartment and that person was there.

897
00:46:17,801 --> 00:46:20,641
Speaker 3: And then also when they were home, they would wear

898
00:46:20,761 --> 00:46:23,641
Speaker 3: men's clothes, and so there was something going on with

899
00:46:23,761 --> 00:46:27,721
Speaker 3: this person where they could not express themselves. And there

900
00:46:27,801 --> 00:46:30,921
Speaker 3: was also I'm assuming some sort of pedophilia that had

901
00:46:30,961 --> 00:46:33,041
Speaker 3: happened back home and that's why they weren't allowed to

902
00:46:33,041 --> 00:46:35,321
Speaker 3: see their kid. I'm going to assume it was that.

903
00:46:35,481 --> 00:46:38,481
Speaker 3: I don't know, because somehow they ended up molesting me,

904
00:46:40,441 --> 00:46:43,881
Speaker 3: And it was like a slow progression where that person

905
00:46:43,961 --> 00:46:46,521
Speaker 3: got to know my family very well. They got to

906
00:46:46,601 --> 00:46:49,361
Speaker 3: know my dad. They knew he had angry issues. They

907
00:46:49,441 --> 00:46:52,041
Speaker 3: knew that he and I could not talk about anything

908
00:46:52,121 --> 00:46:54,961
Speaker 3: personal or private. So we were renting this building from

909
00:46:54,961 --> 00:46:59,281
Speaker 3: an American church and it was for the US military,

910
00:46:59,441 --> 00:47:00,721
Speaker 3: and there was a boy I had a crush on,

911
00:47:00,961 --> 00:47:03,601
Speaker 3: and they knew who I had a crush on, and

912
00:47:03,681 --> 00:47:05,721
Speaker 3: they also knew that I couldn't tell my mom or

913
00:47:05,841 --> 00:47:08,041
Speaker 3: my dad because I get in trouble. So as a kid,

914
00:47:08,121 --> 00:47:09,961
Speaker 3: that's the worst thing you can tell your parents, right,

915
00:47:10,281 --> 00:47:13,281
Speaker 3: So they even had this leverage on me, so that

916
00:47:13,481 --> 00:47:16,881
Speaker 3: way they had something where I couldn't like reach for

917
00:47:17,041 --> 00:47:19,521
Speaker 3: help that kind of thing. Now that I look back

918
00:47:19,561 --> 00:47:21,361
Speaker 3: at it, of course it's very silly. But when you're

919
00:47:21,481 --> 00:47:24,401
Speaker 3: nine and ten years old, Oh my god, how could

920
00:47:24,401 --> 00:47:26,281
Speaker 3: I ever tell my parents this type of things the

921
00:47:26,361 --> 00:47:28,641
Speaker 3: end of the world. So they got down to my

922
00:47:28,841 --> 00:47:32,721
Speaker 3: level and knew the ins and outs of my family dynamic.

923
00:47:32,881 --> 00:47:35,321
Speaker 3: They also tested everything in front of my mom, where

924
00:47:35,361 --> 00:47:38,441
Speaker 3: they would grope me and lift up my dress and

925
00:47:38,841 --> 00:47:40,521
Speaker 3: touch me in front of my mom, and my mom

926
00:47:40,601 --> 00:47:43,041
Speaker 3: thought it was the funniest thing. And my mom would

927
00:47:43,041 --> 00:47:46,241
Speaker 3: tell me to stop complaining. And I remember, before things

928
00:47:46,321 --> 00:47:50,921
Speaker 3: got too far sinister, me telling my mom like, I

929
00:47:51,081 --> 00:47:53,961
Speaker 3: don't like it when she does this, can you make

930
00:47:54,041 --> 00:47:57,361
Speaker 3: her stop? And my mom would say things like, oh, well,

931
00:47:57,881 --> 00:48:00,241
Speaker 3: you know, that's just how she is. That's just how

932
00:48:00,361 --> 00:48:02,641
Speaker 3: things are, and you need to stop complaining because that's

933
00:48:02,681 --> 00:48:05,681
Speaker 3: how adults behave. And I was like, okay, And so

934
00:48:05,961 --> 00:48:08,561
Speaker 3: here I am nine years old thinking that this. I

935
00:48:08,641 --> 00:48:11,001
Speaker 3: don't feel good about it, but somehow adults are saying

936
00:48:11,041 --> 00:48:14,641
Speaker 3: this is normal, so it must be. And so the

937
00:48:14,761 --> 00:48:17,281
Speaker 3: piano lessons that I would have. My mom would often

938
00:48:17,361 --> 00:48:20,521
Speaker 3: drop me off at this person's house unattended and be

939
00:48:20,641 --> 00:48:23,201
Speaker 3: gone for hours and then come and pick me up.

940
00:48:23,481 --> 00:48:26,681
Speaker 3: Or it would be at the church where my mom

941
00:48:26,681 --> 00:48:29,281
Speaker 3: would leave me with this person downstairs. Because this was

942
00:48:29,361 --> 00:48:32,201
Speaker 3: another thing that I look back and I'm thinking, what

943
00:48:32,401 --> 00:48:35,201
Speaker 3: the hell were you thinking? And even my dad too,

944
00:48:35,281 --> 00:48:37,921
Speaker 3: I'm like, how did you not think something was weird here?

945
00:48:38,521 --> 00:48:40,561
Speaker 3: I never told my dad, so I don't think he knows.

946
00:48:40,681 --> 00:48:44,281
Speaker 3: But this person that was our church pianist always requested

947
00:48:44,361 --> 00:48:45,241
Speaker 3: lessons to be private.

948
00:48:45,921 --> 00:48:46,161
Speaker 2: Wow.

949
00:48:47,041 --> 00:48:49,561
Speaker 3: And they told my parents too. They're like, I do

950
00:48:49,721 --> 00:48:52,001
Speaker 3: my best work when no adults are around because I

951
00:48:52,081 --> 00:48:56,201
Speaker 3: can teach them. And so my mom, obviously knowing what

952
00:48:56,401 --> 00:48:59,801
Speaker 3: was going on, was like, oh yeah, she's just out

953
00:48:59,881 --> 00:49:04,361
Speaker 3: for piano lessons, And so she even bought dual headphones

954
00:49:05,161 --> 00:49:07,641
Speaker 3: for me and this person so that way, when they

955
00:49:07,681 --> 00:49:10,801
Speaker 3: were in my own home, my mom could close the

956
00:49:10,881 --> 00:49:14,521
Speaker 3: door and even if there was silence, it wouldn't sound

957
00:49:14,561 --> 00:49:17,881
Speaker 3: like anything weird was going on. Wow.

958
00:49:18,921 --> 00:49:22,601
Speaker 4: Describe the first time it happened with them, like, if

959
00:49:22,681 --> 00:49:25,681
Speaker 4: you can, As I said, I've not been abused before,

960
00:49:26,001 --> 00:49:29,041
Speaker 4: and the thing is for someone who's only nine years

961
00:49:29,081 --> 00:49:32,521
Speaker 4: old to be in a situation where they trust the

962
00:49:32,601 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 4: person they're with and then that trus goes or you're thinking,

963
00:49:36,001 --> 00:49:38,161
Speaker 4: as a nine year old, oh, this is just normal.

964
00:49:38,841 --> 00:49:44,641
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I would say the grouping happened before

965
00:49:45,561 --> 00:49:49,201
Speaker 3: the more intense stuff happened. I remember I was in

966
00:49:49,361 --> 00:49:53,121
Speaker 3: the church kitchen and it was the church piano stand.

967
00:49:53,161 --> 00:49:56,721
Speaker 3: My mom in there and she started doing that. As

968
00:49:56,801 --> 00:50:01,361
Speaker 3: far as things happening privately in those lessons, this is

969
00:50:01,401 --> 00:50:05,281
Speaker 3: where my memory kind of gets much together. I can

970
00:50:05,361 --> 00:50:10,081
Speaker 3: tell you exactly what clothes I was wearing. I remember

971
00:50:10,201 --> 00:50:14,641
Speaker 3: what the piano looked like. It was a black baby

972
00:50:14,721 --> 00:50:22,201
Speaker 3: grand piano, and I just remember that I was playing

973
00:50:22,321 --> 00:50:27,161
Speaker 3: something on the piano and they were standing next to me,

974
00:50:28,481 --> 00:50:31,081
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden I felt their hand and

975
00:50:31,441 --> 00:50:36,641
Speaker 3: it was not over my clothes anymore, and I just

976
00:50:36,721 --> 00:50:44,121
Speaker 3: remember freezing because I'd never experienced that before. I didn't

977
00:50:44,161 --> 00:50:48,001
Speaker 3: know how to react. I don't know how else to

978
00:50:48,081 --> 00:50:52,081
Speaker 3: describe this other it felt like something died inside of me,

979
00:50:53,521 --> 00:50:55,801
Speaker 3: I think. I mean, I had seen things happen on

980
00:50:55,921 --> 00:50:59,001
Speaker 3: movies before. It was another weird thing with my parents,

981
00:50:59,041 --> 00:51:03,161
Speaker 3: as we were allowed to watch very adult rated movies,

982
00:51:03,201 --> 00:51:04,841
Speaker 3: but we weren't allowed to go to a movie theater.

983
00:51:05,121 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: Somehow that was the sin. That don't make no sense,

984
00:51:08,041 --> 00:51:11,721
Speaker 3: But I remember seeing things like happen that happened to

985
00:51:11,801 --> 00:51:15,521
Speaker 3: women in movies, but I was a kid, And then

986
00:51:15,561 --> 00:51:18,721
Speaker 3: I felt this person's hand, and then I think, I

987
00:51:18,881 --> 00:51:21,401
Speaker 3: just it was almost like I was awake, but I

988
00:51:21,561 --> 00:51:22,001
Speaker 3: wasn't there.

989
00:51:23,161 --> 00:51:24,801
Speaker 4: Did you ever try to stop them or say, no,

990
00:51:25,961 --> 00:51:29,281
Speaker 4: well you just it's a frozen Yeah, I was just

991
00:51:29,441 --> 00:51:30,361
Speaker 4: completely frozen.

992
00:51:30,601 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: I didn't. I think later on there was a point

993
00:51:33,561 --> 00:51:36,721
Speaker 3: where where I kind of knew what was going to happen,

994
00:51:36,841 --> 00:51:40,801
Speaker 3: and I remember being upset, but in the first initial stages,

995
00:51:40,921 --> 00:51:45,041
Speaker 3: like it was just so sudden, and I didn't know

996
00:51:45,201 --> 00:51:48,881
Speaker 3: because like this person had also established trust with me,

997
00:51:49,201 --> 00:51:51,721
Speaker 3: yea where I had trusted them enough to tell them

998
00:51:51,761 --> 00:51:54,441
Speaker 3: which boy I had a crush on. They acted like

999
00:51:54,521 --> 00:51:57,401
Speaker 3: my friend. They bought me toys and candy, things that

1000
00:51:57,601 --> 00:52:00,481
Speaker 3: like my parents would have never given me. They made

1001
00:52:00,561 --> 00:52:03,121
Speaker 3: me feel like I was a smart kid. My parents

1002
00:52:03,201 --> 00:52:06,641
Speaker 3: never told me those things. And so all of a sudden,

1003
00:52:06,681 --> 00:52:10,441
Speaker 3: when this happened, I felt like I was a bad person,

1004
00:52:11,121 --> 00:52:15,081
Speaker 3: because how could this person be bad if all they've

1005
00:52:15,121 --> 00:52:18,241
Speaker 3: ever done is good, and now it must be my

1006
00:52:18,401 --> 00:52:21,521
Speaker 3: fault because I couldn't even fight back. I just stood there,

1007
00:52:22,281 --> 00:52:25,601
Speaker 3: and so I was so ashamed. And there was the

1008
00:52:25,721 --> 00:52:28,481
Speaker 3: strangest experience really.

1009
00:52:28,481 --> 00:52:32,921
Speaker 1: Was when did it finally stop with them?

1010
00:52:34,321 --> 00:52:38,201
Speaker 3: I wish it would have stopped sooner. There was a

1011
00:52:38,321 --> 00:52:41,441
Speaker 3: point where that person had to start working like a

1012
00:52:41,521 --> 00:52:44,241
Speaker 3: different shift, and so they were out of my life

1013
00:52:44,281 --> 00:52:47,321
Speaker 3: for a couple of months, but then they immediately came

1014
00:52:47,361 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 3: back in. So I had a temporary piano teacher on base,

1015
00:52:52,441 --> 00:52:54,841
Speaker 3: on the military base, but then nine to eleven happened,

1016
00:52:54,881 --> 00:52:57,241
Speaker 3: and then I wasn't allowed to go on base anymore.

1017
00:52:57,281 --> 00:53:00,121
Speaker 3: And then the person switched shifts, and so I ended

1018
00:53:00,201 --> 00:53:02,121
Speaker 3: up taking lessons again with that person.

1019
00:53:03,041 --> 00:53:06,121
Speaker 1: And then automatically from that, just what they did to you.

1020
00:53:06,401 --> 00:53:09,561
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they were like, oh, I guess there was

1021
00:53:09,641 --> 00:53:13,201
Speaker 3: nothing wrong here. So they were never stopped, they were

1022
00:53:13,241 --> 00:53:16,801
Speaker 3: never reprimanded or any of that. My mom never did

1023
00:53:16,841 --> 00:53:19,641
Speaker 3: anything to make it stop or she was encouraging it.

1024
00:53:20,641 --> 00:53:23,681
Speaker 3: So when they came back in my life, you know,

1025
00:53:23,761 --> 00:53:27,561
Speaker 3: everything kind of started all over again. And what made

1026
00:53:27,641 --> 00:53:32,121
Speaker 3: them stop though, was I was a teenager already. I

1027
00:53:32,201 --> 00:53:35,161
Speaker 3: think I was almost fourteen at this point, but they

1028
00:53:35,201 --> 00:53:38,681
Speaker 3: got in an argument with my dad, and so this

1029
00:53:38,961 --> 00:53:42,561
Speaker 3: person was already the church pianist, but they wanted more

1030
00:53:42,641 --> 00:53:46,201
Speaker 3: senior leadership position. Some people might call it a deacon

1031
00:53:46,361 --> 00:53:48,801
Speaker 3: of a church. This is like a pastor's assistant type thing,

1032
00:53:49,601 --> 00:53:52,001
Speaker 3: and so they wanted that, but because they were female,

1033
00:53:52,601 --> 00:53:55,881
Speaker 3: my dad said no, and so that was his rules

1034
00:53:55,921 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: within the church, no female leadership, which I think is BS.

1035
00:53:59,721 --> 00:54:02,881
Speaker 3: But in this one instance it played in my favor

1036
00:54:03,001 --> 00:54:05,521
Speaker 3: because they ended up getting in a fight and my

1037
00:54:05,641 --> 00:54:09,001
Speaker 3: dad kicked them out of the church. So that's what

1038
00:54:09,241 --> 00:54:12,721
Speaker 3: finally caused them to leave and leave me the hell alone.

1039
00:54:14,001 --> 00:54:17,761
Speaker 3: But during that time, I even look back now and

1040
00:54:17,921 --> 00:54:20,041
Speaker 3: I think about all the things that I went through,

1041
00:54:20,241 --> 00:54:24,361
Speaker 3: including as a child wedding the bed, and this was

1042
00:54:24,441 --> 00:54:26,881
Speaker 3: something I was so embarrassed about for years. I let

1043
00:54:26,921 --> 00:54:29,841
Speaker 3: the bed into my teens. But I look back now

1044
00:54:30,001 --> 00:54:32,441
Speaker 3: and then with the research that I've done and with

1045
00:54:32,601 --> 00:54:36,121
Speaker 3: other survivors that I've talked to, it's very common for

1046
00:54:36,241 --> 00:54:39,321
Speaker 3: people who are going through sexual abuse to experience that

1047
00:54:39,721 --> 00:54:42,921
Speaker 3: even into teens or adulthood. And I had no idea

1048
00:54:43,001 --> 00:54:44,921
Speaker 3: back then. I just always thought there was something wrong.

1049
00:54:45,001 --> 00:54:45,241
Speaker 3: With me.

1050
00:54:46,321 --> 00:54:48,521
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you said that your dad never knew about that. Yeah,

1051
00:54:48,561 --> 00:54:51,601
Speaker 4: he never till this day, he never knew, doesn't.

1052
00:54:51,321 --> 00:54:54,681
Speaker 3: Know as far as I'm aware of. No, my mom

1053
00:54:54,801 --> 00:54:56,201
Speaker 3: kept a lot of secrets from him.

1054
00:54:57,001 --> 00:54:58,881
Speaker 4: And what do you think your dad would have done

1055
00:54:58,881 --> 00:55:00,401
Speaker 4: if you have found out? Do you think he would

1056
00:55:00,401 --> 00:55:03,201
Speaker 4: have been abusive to you or your mom? Or would

1057
00:55:03,201 --> 00:55:05,921
Speaker 4: you have gone to abusive to them? Tann a blonde eye.

1058
00:55:06,881 --> 00:55:11,081
Speaker 1: I don't really know, because that's the only kind of

1059
00:55:11,121 --> 00:55:13,401
Speaker 1: sexual abuse you got. Yes, is that correct?

1060
00:55:14,401 --> 00:55:17,241
Speaker 3: There were other things that had happened. Sometimes we'd go

1061
00:55:17,321 --> 00:55:19,921
Speaker 3: to churches in the States and there would be like

1062
00:55:20,281 --> 00:55:25,281
Speaker 3: really creepy pastors or other church members. I remember like

1063
00:55:25,481 --> 00:55:27,561
Speaker 3: being forced to sit in other guy's laps when I

1064
00:55:27,681 --> 00:55:30,561
Speaker 3: was a kid because it was cute or whatever, and

1065
00:55:31,001 --> 00:55:34,641
Speaker 3: just feeling very gross and that kind of thing.

1066
00:55:35,241 --> 00:55:38,361
Speaker 1: Well, not to the extent of this Pianoistno, No, not

1067
00:55:38,481 --> 00:55:39,641
Speaker 1: at all, not even close.

1068
00:55:39,761 --> 00:55:41,881
Speaker 4: That's that's what I'm trying to say, Like, that's never happened,

1069
00:55:42,281 --> 00:55:44,761
Speaker 4: and your dad's never pushed that to happen.

1070
00:55:45,681 --> 00:55:47,121
Speaker 1: How would you have tend on your mom?

1071
00:55:48,001 --> 00:55:51,601
Speaker 3: Maybe, if I think about it, I do remember actually,

1072
00:55:52,001 --> 00:55:54,201
Speaker 3: now that you mention it. I have a memory from

1073
00:55:54,241 --> 00:55:57,081
Speaker 3: when I was really little and I was at the

1074
00:55:57,161 --> 00:56:00,121
Speaker 3: park with my dad and there was like a sprinkler

1075
00:56:00,841 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 3: slash like water thing and in the summertime, kids would

1076
00:56:04,481 --> 00:56:05,881
Speaker 3: go out there and we just like play in the

1077
00:56:05,961 --> 00:56:08,521
Speaker 3: water and whatever. And I remember one time there was

1078
00:56:08,601 --> 00:56:12,201
Speaker 3: this guy taking photos of the kids, and I remember

1079
00:56:12,321 --> 00:56:14,641
Speaker 3: my dad saying, hey, we got to go, and I

1080
00:56:14,721 --> 00:56:16,681
Speaker 3: didn't know why. I was like, I'm having fun playing

1081
00:56:17,081 --> 00:56:19,241
Speaker 3: And I was very little, I might have been like six,

1082
00:56:20,161 --> 00:56:22,521
Speaker 3: And if I remember correctly, my parents got in a

1083
00:56:22,601 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: fight about it in the car because my dad said

1084
00:56:24,961 --> 00:56:27,081
Speaker 3: we got to go, and he was like, there was

1085
00:56:27,121 --> 00:56:30,001
Speaker 3: that creepy guy taking photos of our kids. And so

1086
00:56:31,001 --> 00:56:33,841
Speaker 3: that was like the only times anything like remotely sexual

1087
00:56:33,961 --> 00:56:36,561
Speaker 3: happened in front of my dad. So I don't know

1088
00:56:36,601 --> 00:56:40,641
Speaker 3: if that's how he would have responded or what he

1089
00:56:40,801 --> 00:56:44,081
Speaker 3: probably would have turned on my mom though, if I

1090
00:56:44,121 --> 00:56:45,681
Speaker 3: think about it, Yeah.

1091
00:56:46,401 --> 00:56:50,561
Speaker 4: So with all that happening and now that's passed away,

1092
00:56:50,921 --> 00:56:53,961
Speaker 4: and like she's moved on, what happens with you now?

1093
00:56:54,321 --> 00:56:56,841
Speaker 4: Like in that household you know you'll come into your teens,

1094
00:56:57,441 --> 00:57:00,161
Speaker 4: is anything changing the household you'll growing up?

1095
00:57:00,201 --> 00:57:00,281
Speaker 3: Now?

1096
00:57:00,361 --> 00:57:02,721
Speaker 1: Do you want to get out of the household. What's

1097
00:57:02,761 --> 00:57:03,481
Speaker 1: happening now to you?

1098
00:57:04,321 --> 00:57:08,081
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there was always something in my head that

1099
00:57:08,241 --> 00:57:12,521
Speaker 3: said that I wanted to leave, But my passports were

1100
00:57:12,561 --> 00:57:15,841
Speaker 3: always in my parents safe by their bed. My mom

1101
00:57:15,961 --> 00:57:18,641
Speaker 3: still has my birth certificate. She never let me have it,

1102
00:57:19,321 --> 00:57:21,441
Speaker 3: so I always knew that I had those legal documents,

1103
00:57:21,521 --> 00:57:23,881
Speaker 3: but they were out of reach for me. I wasn't

1104
00:57:24,241 --> 00:57:26,041
Speaker 3: taught how to use a phone or how to use

1105
00:57:26,081 --> 00:57:29,561
Speaker 3: public transportations. I didn't know how to leave. I didn't

1106
00:57:29,841 --> 00:57:32,281
Speaker 3: have an ID because I didn't go to a school,

1107
00:57:32,721 --> 00:57:34,641
Speaker 3: so I had nothing on my person that could prove

1108
00:57:34,881 --> 00:57:38,161
Speaker 3: who I was. So I did think about running away

1109
00:57:38,201 --> 00:57:40,481
Speaker 3: and leaving quite often. That was a fantasy of mine.

1110
00:57:40,601 --> 00:57:44,401
Speaker 3: But I also thought about my brother, after seeing the

1111
00:57:44,521 --> 00:57:47,081
Speaker 3: abuse that he had gone through and knowing that it

1112
00:57:47,081 --> 00:57:49,801
Speaker 3: would be ten times worse if I ran away, their

1113
00:57:49,881 --> 00:57:51,441
Speaker 3: anger would be taken out on him.

1114
00:57:52,481 --> 00:57:54,921
Speaker 1: Asked to run away. You both couldn't do it together.

1115
00:57:55,801 --> 00:57:58,281
Speaker 3: We never talked about it. Yeah, I think we talked

1116
00:57:58,321 --> 00:58:00,761
Speaker 3: about when we grow up and we don't have to

1117
00:58:00,841 --> 00:58:03,921
Speaker 3: deal with this anymore. But I don't think we ever

1118
00:58:04,001 --> 00:58:06,681
Speaker 3: talked about running away. I wish we would have.

1119
00:58:07,281 --> 00:58:09,401
Speaker 4: Did you ever think, even going into your teens and

1120
00:58:10,001 --> 00:58:11,921
Speaker 4: late teens, did you ever think this was going to end?

1121
00:58:13,281 --> 00:58:16,001
Speaker 3: So my sister went to the same super strict religious

1122
00:58:16,001 --> 00:58:19,801
Speaker 3: college that I went to, but I remember her coming back,

1123
00:58:19,921 --> 00:58:23,521
Speaker 3: so I think I was fifteen. I had a whole

1124
00:58:23,601 --> 00:58:28,561
Speaker 3: plan to end my life, and I remember telling myself,

1125
00:58:29,241 --> 00:58:31,601
Speaker 3: I'm going to wait till I see her because I

1126
00:58:31,721 --> 00:58:34,161
Speaker 3: just want to see her one more time. And she

1127
00:58:34,361 --> 00:58:37,841
Speaker 3: came back and she was so happy, and even though

1128
00:58:38,161 --> 00:58:40,561
Speaker 3: looking back like I would never want to go back

1129
00:58:40,601 --> 00:58:44,681
Speaker 3: to this establishment ever, but she would talk about friends,

1130
00:58:45,441 --> 00:58:48,081
Speaker 3: and she would talk about the conversation she'd have with

1131
00:58:48,161 --> 00:58:51,361
Speaker 3: her friends or people she could even laugh with, whereas

1132
00:58:51,401 --> 00:58:54,001
Speaker 3: I would get in trouble for laughing too much or

1133
00:58:54,681 --> 00:58:58,401
Speaker 3: not smiling it for whatever stupid reason. And there wasn't

1134
00:58:58,441 --> 00:59:01,961
Speaker 3: physical abuse there. To me, that sounded like heaven, a

1135
00:59:02,041 --> 00:59:05,801
Speaker 3: place where someone wouldn't get physically abused, allowed to speak

1136
00:59:05,801 --> 00:59:09,001
Speaker 3: to other people, allowed to make friends. And so after

1137
00:59:09,161 --> 00:59:11,841
Speaker 3: seeing that, it kind of gave me a little hope

1138
00:59:11,881 --> 00:59:14,281
Speaker 3: because I knew that that was the place that I

1139
00:59:14,321 --> 00:59:18,161
Speaker 3: would be allowed to go to. So I think that's

1140
00:59:18,241 --> 00:59:20,241
Speaker 3: what I held on to from the time I was

1141
00:59:20,281 --> 00:59:24,921
Speaker 3: about fifteen, thinking that, well, if this is the worst

1142
00:59:24,961 --> 00:59:27,721
Speaker 3: my life is ever going to get, then I can

1143
00:59:27,801 --> 00:59:31,041
Speaker 3: survive a couple more years and get through now. Granted,

1144
00:59:31,201 --> 00:59:35,561
Speaker 3: I had moments where I had tried to end my

1145
00:59:35,681 --> 00:59:40,081
Speaker 3: life or ended up in situations where I was self harming.

1146
00:59:41,081 --> 00:59:43,801
Speaker 3: But I think there was some glimmer of hope in

1147
00:59:43,841 --> 00:59:45,201
Speaker 3: the back of my head when I saw that.

1148
00:59:46,121 --> 00:59:48,561
Speaker 1: How did you get over the mental stress and everything?

1149
00:59:48,681 --> 00:59:50,241
Speaker 1: From me? How'd you cope with that?

1150
00:59:50,321 --> 00:59:55,841
Speaker 3: After theirle I just remember crying a lot at night.

1151
00:59:59,041 --> 01:00:01,641
Speaker 1: Well, you over, You've been stronger now.

1152
01:00:02,721 --> 01:00:07,161
Speaker 3: I think it's an immunity, an immunity for it. You know,

1153
01:00:07,281 --> 01:00:09,681
Speaker 3: obviously what happened back then is still just as bad

1154
01:00:09,761 --> 01:00:11,921
Speaker 3: now as it was then. But I think there's a

1155
01:00:12,001 --> 01:00:14,561
Speaker 3: part of me that realizes that I'm free. You know,

1156
01:00:15,041 --> 01:00:17,361
Speaker 3: some days I live in Vegas right now, but some

1157
01:00:17,441 --> 01:00:20,641
Speaker 3: days I'll be driving down the road and literally it's

1158
01:00:20,721 --> 01:00:23,281
Speaker 3: just like an epiphany, just this wave of gratitude that

1159
01:00:23,401 --> 01:00:26,921
Speaker 3: hits me, and I'll look around and I feel like

1160
01:00:26,961 --> 01:00:29,961
Speaker 3: I'm in a dream. I am driving my own car,

1161
01:00:30,321 --> 01:00:33,201
Speaker 3: Like I can go to a friend's house whenever I want,

1162
01:00:33,281 --> 01:00:36,241
Speaker 3: I can speak to whomever I want, I can be

1163
01:00:36,361 --> 01:00:39,241
Speaker 3: at any place at any time, and no one is

1164
01:00:39,321 --> 01:00:42,081
Speaker 3: here to stop me. Sometimes I have to remind myself

1165
01:00:42,961 --> 01:00:46,481
Speaker 3: because I get stuck like. This is something that's been

1166
01:00:46,561 --> 01:00:50,241
Speaker 3: challenging for me as an adult, is sometimes leaving my home. Yeah,

1167
01:00:50,401 --> 01:00:55,961
Speaker 3: because sometimes when I'm in that very negative headspace, that trauma,

1168
01:00:56,441 --> 01:00:59,121
Speaker 3: there's a part of me that's like, oh, like, I

1169
01:00:59,161 --> 01:01:01,761
Speaker 3: don't know if I could do this. But then when

1170
01:01:01,801 --> 01:01:04,401
Speaker 3: I stop and think about it, I realize that I

1171
01:01:04,481 --> 01:01:07,681
Speaker 3: have so much freedom that I never had before, and

1172
01:01:07,801 --> 01:01:11,481
Speaker 3: so I don't know if what happened back then is

1173
01:01:11,601 --> 01:01:14,801
Speaker 3: less painful. I think I just found so much more

1174
01:01:14,841 --> 01:01:19,441
Speaker 3: happiness now. But I also use self harm back then

1175
01:01:19,681 --> 01:01:23,081
Speaker 3: to cope, and so anorexia was one of those things

1176
01:01:23,121 --> 01:01:26,321
Speaker 3: that I used. And people end up with eating disorders

1177
01:01:26,321 --> 01:01:29,681
Speaker 3: for various reasons. A lot of research has shown that

1178
01:01:29,801 --> 01:01:33,481
Speaker 3: sexual abuse is common with those who experienced that poor

1179
01:01:33,561 --> 01:01:37,681
Speaker 3: self image, obviously, which I had my whole life. But

1180
01:01:37,801 --> 01:01:40,641
Speaker 3: I think for me, it was just this and it's

1181
01:01:40,721 --> 01:01:44,761
Speaker 3: just going to sound insane, but this constant feeling of

1182
01:01:45,601 --> 01:01:49,761
Speaker 3: playing with life and death was so invigorating. I couldn't

1183
01:01:49,761 --> 01:01:52,721
Speaker 3: control anything else in my life, couldn't control when I

1184
01:01:52,841 --> 01:01:56,721
Speaker 3: left the house, even as a teenager. I couldn't control

1185
01:01:57,201 --> 01:02:00,441
Speaker 3: my education. I couldn't control what times of day I

1186
01:02:00,481 --> 01:02:02,761
Speaker 3: could even, you know, go to the bathroom, or I

1187
01:02:02,881 --> 01:02:05,481
Speaker 3: might get in trouble for making too much noise going

1188
01:02:05,521 --> 01:02:08,361
Speaker 3: downstairs to use the restroom or getting water or whatever.

1189
01:02:08,481 --> 01:02:11,801
Speaker 3: But what I could control is food restriction to the

1190
01:02:12,041 --> 01:02:15,241
Speaker 3: point where I had this down to a science that

1191
01:02:15,401 --> 01:02:19,241
Speaker 3: I knew how many calories. This is gonna sound insane,

1192
01:02:19,281 --> 01:02:23,041
Speaker 3: but how many calories and how many movements I would

1193
01:02:23,161 --> 01:02:25,401
Speaker 3: need to take in one day to make myself blackout.

1194
01:02:26,761 --> 01:02:29,961
Speaker 3: And I lived for that, And so it's a very

1195
01:02:30,081 --> 01:02:35,161
Speaker 3: strange feeling. And for anyone who survived this intense anorexia,

1196
01:02:35,881 --> 01:02:40,121
Speaker 3: you know that addictive feeling of adrenaline. It's almost like

1197
01:02:40,241 --> 01:02:43,681
Speaker 3: being like, I've never experienced with this before, but I

1198
01:02:43,801 --> 01:02:46,281
Speaker 3: guess comparatively would be like being shot up with narcan.

1199
01:02:47,161 --> 01:02:50,041
Speaker 3: You're passed out, you're gone, and all of a sudden

1200
01:02:50,121 --> 01:02:53,521
Speaker 3: you're back to life and you feel just powerful. And

1201
01:02:53,641 --> 01:02:59,241
Speaker 3: that got addicting. And I did that for from the

1202
01:02:59,281 --> 01:03:02,241
Speaker 3: time I was about sixteen until probably like my first

1203
01:03:02,841 --> 01:03:05,601
Speaker 3: year year and a half into college. So that was

1204
01:03:05,681 --> 01:03:08,881
Speaker 3: my vice. It was, it was self harm and play

1205
01:03:08,961 --> 01:03:09,641
Speaker 3: with life. And death.

1206
01:03:10,041 --> 01:03:11,041
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, I think.

1207
01:03:11,161 --> 01:03:13,681
Speaker 4: But you think it's helped too that you haven't seen

1208
01:03:13,721 --> 01:03:16,241
Speaker 4: your parents for a while, so it's kind of ye,

1209
01:03:16,401 --> 01:03:16,921
Speaker 4: it blanks it.

1210
01:03:16,921 --> 01:03:17,361
Speaker 1: Out, doesn't it.

1211
01:03:17,441 --> 01:03:20,201
Speaker 4: It takes away the negativity and that bad energy as

1212
01:03:20,201 --> 01:03:21,801
Speaker 4: a wife from not seeing them.

1213
01:03:22,121 --> 01:03:24,801
Speaker 3: So I think so. And you know, like everybody's got

1214
01:03:24,801 --> 01:03:27,601
Speaker 3: their own way of coping, but for me, I think

1215
01:03:28,321 --> 01:03:30,881
Speaker 3: it's been the best thing for my mental health, honestly,

1216
01:03:31,561 --> 01:03:34,441
Speaker 3: because I can't even imagine. I remember even when I

1217
01:03:34,521 --> 01:03:36,921
Speaker 3: did have a relationship with them as an adult, where

1218
01:03:36,961 --> 01:03:39,561
Speaker 3: I would accomplish things or you know, I would I

1219
01:03:39,601 --> 01:03:42,001
Speaker 3: would do things I'm proud of and they'd be proud

1220
01:03:42,041 --> 01:03:45,721
Speaker 3: of me for two seconds, and then it was, oh,

1221
01:03:45,801 --> 01:03:48,161
Speaker 3: but you could do better, you know. Or if I

1222
01:03:48,281 --> 01:03:51,681
Speaker 3: messed up with something, or maybe they didn't think something

1223
01:03:51,761 --> 01:03:53,281
Speaker 3: went a certain way, it was like, well you could

1224
01:03:53,321 --> 01:03:56,961
Speaker 3: have done this. There was always something that was never enough.

1225
01:03:57,481 --> 01:04:00,041
Speaker 3: And now that I think about it, you know, I'm

1226
01:04:00,041 --> 01:04:01,561
Speaker 3: not where I want to be in life. I hope

1227
01:04:01,561 --> 01:04:04,321
Speaker 3: I never feel like I arrived. I hope I'm always

1228
01:04:04,401 --> 01:04:07,601
Speaker 3: growing all ways learning. But I think about it now,

1229
01:04:07,681 --> 01:04:09,641
Speaker 3: I don't even think I would have that drive within

1230
01:04:09,761 --> 01:04:13,121
Speaker 3: me if I had someone constantly tearing me down and

1231
01:04:13,241 --> 01:04:20,481
Speaker 3: making me feel like I was insignificant. To answer your question, yeah, do.

1232
01:04:20,481 --> 01:04:24,201
Speaker 4: You think, now that you've gone through everything that just

1233
01:04:24,321 --> 01:04:26,601
Speaker 4: say turn back the time a little bit. You know

1234
01:04:26,721 --> 01:04:29,081
Speaker 4: your parents aren't that old as they are now. But

1235
01:04:29,161 --> 01:04:31,401
Speaker 4: if they could you you reckon. You could stand up

1236
01:04:31,441 --> 01:04:33,521
Speaker 4: to them now if they try to abuse you, being

1237
01:04:33,561 --> 01:04:34,001
Speaker 4: the woman that.

1238
01:04:34,001 --> 01:04:34,441
Speaker 1: You are now.

1239
01:04:35,481 --> 01:04:38,081
Speaker 3: If I was to go back, I think I would

1240
01:04:38,121 --> 01:04:40,401
Speaker 3: see this in two different ways. If I was as

1241
01:04:40,441 --> 01:04:42,641
Speaker 3: old as I am and confident as I am right

1242
01:04:42,721 --> 01:04:46,161
Speaker 3: now in that little girl's shoes, I think I would

1243
01:04:46,161 --> 01:04:50,801
Speaker 3: simply walk away. I think I would know what to do.

1244
01:04:51,681 --> 01:04:53,201
Speaker 3: I would know how to use a phone, And that

1245
01:04:53,321 --> 01:04:55,441
Speaker 3: was a recurring nightmare that I used to have where

1246
01:04:55,641 --> 01:04:58,041
Speaker 3: I wasn't able to use a phone, or I'd be

1247
01:04:58,121 --> 01:05:00,681
Speaker 3: trapped in my house and I couldn't call someone. But

1248
01:05:00,961 --> 01:05:03,441
Speaker 3: knowing what I know now, I would know how to leave.

1249
01:05:03,521 --> 01:05:05,241
Speaker 3: I know how to buy a plane ticket, how to

1250
01:05:05,281 --> 01:05:08,761
Speaker 3: get out of there. Now. If I was my adult

1251
01:05:08,881 --> 01:05:11,961
Speaker 3: self now and I saw what was happening to my

1252
01:05:12,081 --> 01:05:15,121
Speaker 3: younger self, there might be a chainsaw in an accent rold.

1253
01:05:17,681 --> 01:05:20,801
Speaker 3: I say, I promise I'm not crazy for a little bit,

1254
01:05:21,321 --> 01:05:23,921
Speaker 3: but I would protect that little girl at all costs.

1255
01:05:24,201 --> 01:05:24,481
Speaker 1: I think.

1256
01:05:24,521 --> 01:05:26,681
Speaker 4: I think from what you've told me about your parents,

1257
01:05:27,321 --> 01:05:31,041
Speaker 4: they controlled you to make you fear you couldn't be

1258
01:05:31,161 --> 01:05:34,721
Speaker 4: without them. Oh yeah, and that's why every time you

1259
01:05:34,801 --> 01:05:37,521
Speaker 4: wanted to escape or or thought about escaping, you knew,

1260
01:05:38,081 --> 01:05:40,641
Speaker 4: you know, it's the right thing to do. Yeah, but

1261
01:05:41,041 --> 01:05:43,361
Speaker 4: half of you saying it's not. Maybe they are right.

1262
01:05:43,481 --> 01:05:44,921
Speaker 4: I do need them, you know what I mean.

1263
01:05:45,001 --> 01:05:47,601
Speaker 1: So that's why. And now now you're a stronger person,

1264
01:05:48,081 --> 01:05:49,241
Speaker 1: you could stand up to them.

1265
01:05:49,321 --> 01:05:56,081
Speaker 4: Now, hell yeah, absolutely before we go, describe you in

1266
01:05:56,161 --> 01:05:58,041
Speaker 4: one word or two words to me now.

1267
01:05:58,881 --> 01:06:10,681
Speaker 3: Oh dear, I would say empathetic and unhinged just a little.

1268
01:06:12,961 --> 01:06:15,801
Speaker 1: But now I appreciate you coming on. I've enjoyed this

1269
01:06:15,961 --> 01:06:18,601
Speaker 1: so much. It's been you know. I'm glad now you're

1270
01:06:18,641 --> 01:06:21,241
Speaker 1: a stronger person and I wish you all the best

1271
01:06:21,281 --> 01:06:21,801
Speaker 1: in the future.

1272
01:06:22,681 --> 01:06:25,321
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I've really appreciated this interview. It's

1273
01:06:25,361 --> 01:06:25,721
Speaker 3: been great.

1274
01:06:26,601 --> 01:06:26,881
Speaker 1: Thank you.